Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, March 04, 2013

The ranking Republican member on Washington state's House Transportation Committee thinks that riding bicycles causes more pollution than driving cars, the Seattle Bike Blog reported Saturday. "If I am not mistaken, a cyclists [sic] has an increased heart rate and respiration," state Rep. Ed Orcutt (R) wrote to a constituent. "That means that the act of riding a bike results in greater emissions of carbon dioxide from the rider. Since CO2 is deemed to be a greenhouse gas and a pollutant, bicyclists are actually polluting when they ride."

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klifferd

 

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The science of republicans. make an outrageous claim and keep repeating it without any evidence or data.

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Some fine yellow journalism in this one. If we limit the out put to humans then Orcutt is completely correct and he answered the question correctly but when the CO2 of the car is added in all bets are off. You liberals will grasp ant any straw to make republicans look like idiots. It much easier for us, when we want to make Democrats look stupid we just watch the news.

Reached for comment, Orcutt told Seattle Bike Blog that "you would be giving off more CO2 if you are riding a bike than driving in a car," although he admitted to having no evidence to back the claim.

#2 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-04 11:50 AM | Reply | Flag:

paneocon.. its a dumb argument

exerting causes more co2 output from a human. fine.. but to use that as his excuse for bike taxes is something only a fool would do.

#3 | Posted by klifferd at 2013-03-04 11:52 AM | Reply | Flag:

"paneocon.. its a dumb argument

exerting causes more co2 output from a human."

The CO2 came from food, it wasn't released from fossil storage.

It's not a dumb argument, it's a miserably stupid argument.

#4 | Posted by Zatoichi at 2013-03-04 12:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

This guy should be laughed out of politics.

#5 | Posted by danni at 2013-03-04 12:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

#4 | POSTED BY ZATOICHI

You can confuse the argument all you want but there are a couple facts

CO2 is exhaled by humans

The amount of CO2 exhaled is related to the breathing rate

The breathing rate is related to physical activity

Riding a bicycle is more physical than driving a car.

ergo riding a bicycle generates more CO2 than the action of driving a car.

ZATOICHI headed out for the evening

#6 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-04 12:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-04 12:13 PM | Reply

And the CO2 came from the environment, not from fossil stores.
Thanks for siding with the miserably stupid.

#7 | Posted by Zatoichi at 2013-03-04 12:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

"You liberals will grasp ant any straw to make republicans look like idiots."

It's like living in a haystack. I guess this explains why Republicans are so full of [...]. They don't want to "pollute the environment."

#9 | Posted by Harry_Powell at 2013-03-04 12:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

#7 | POSTED BY ZATOICHI

The source for the CO2 is not the subject of Orcutt's comments. A smart person would be able to see that.

#10 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-04 12:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

If this guy really loved America he would do the nation a favor and hold his breath.

#11 | Posted by danni at 2013-03-04 12:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

#9 | POSTED BY HARRY_POWELL

It's better to stay silent and look a fool, rather than speak and remove all doubt.
Mark Twain

#12 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-04 12:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

Just like the claims about rape this is designed to keep trailer trash ignorant.

#13 | Posted by Species8472 at 2013-03-04 12:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

It's better to stay silent and look a fool, rather than speak and remove all doubt.
...
#12 | Posted by paneocon

So why are you posting?

#15 | Posted by nullifidian at 2013-03-04 12:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

"There won't be anyone to laugh at."

Is the cause gonna be eating fish or CO2 in the atmosphere? I guess you and Algore will have to settle for laughing at each other. I'll bet he'll laugh last while laughing at you from his big beach house in FL and riding all over in his private jet.

#16 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2013-03-04 12:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

Neocyclist carbon will destroy the world and there is nothing you can do about it!

#17 | Posted by Corky at 2013-03-04 12:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

#14 | POSTED BY SULLY

Go ahead smart guy prove me wrong and show that Orcutt's statement is wrong. Always interested in seeing the reasoning and deduction capabilities of the modern liberal mind.

#18 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-04 12:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

#15 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

Har Har.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones

#19 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-04 12:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I guess you and Algore will have to settle for laughing at each other. I'll bet he'll laugh last while laughing at you from his big beach house in FL and riding all over in his private jet. "

What would you scientific-illiterates do without Al Gore?

#20 | Posted by nullifidian at 2013-03-04 12:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

This guy is definitely on to something. Scientists should stand in line attempting to acquire grants to study this further. Just the other day I was standing on the street waiting to cross it and all these pretty boys (about 40 of them---www.betterphoto.com)came riding by.Afterward, I had a very difficult job catching my breath for about 5 minutes. Yep, this rethug is on to something.

#21 | Posted by matsop at 2013-03-04 12:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

What would you scientific-illiterates do without Al Gore?

#20 | Posted by nullifidian at 2013-03-04 12:43 PM | Reply |

Not breathe the exhaust from his private jet?

#22 | Posted by matsop at 2013-03-04 12:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Go ahead smart guy prove me wrong and show that Orcutt's statement is wrong."

He's equating breathing with pollution. Its idiotic and disingenous. You should be ashamed to be so willing to portray yourself as being too stupid to figure that out.

If you were capable of rational thought, your behavior on this thread would cause you to take a step back and re-examine your life. That's how dumb you're choosing to be about this.

#23 | Posted by Sully at 2013-03-04 12:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

"14 | POSTED BY SULLY
Always interested in seeing the reasoning and deduction capabilities of the modern liberal mind."

Sully's a liberal? Wow.

"Afterward, I had a very difficult job catching my breath for about 5 minutes."

Mats is coming out! : )

#24 | Posted by pragmatist at 2013-03-04 12:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Sully's a liberal? Wow."

I let that go because he thinks he's a conservative even though he's a Republican supporter and the Republicans are not conservatives. And if he can't even figure out what he is, how can I expect him to figure out anyone else?

#25 | Posted by Sully at 2013-03-04 01:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

#23 | POSTED BY SULLY

So I guess from your non answer you can't dispute my reaction to this article.

Sorry about the liberal thing.

I let that go because he thinks he's a conservative even though he's a Republican supporter and the Republicans are not conservatives.
#25 | POSTED BY SULLY

If you have been paying attention I have been beating that drum for years now.

#26 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-04 02:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

"The source for the CO2 is not the subject of Orcutt's comments"

Then what's the point of the comparison?

#27 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2013-03-04 02:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

That your a republican and not a conservative? Hardly.

#28 | Posted by 726 at 2013-03-04 02:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

The source for the CO2 is not the subject of Orcutt's comments

Orcutt wrote: "If I am not mistaken, a cyclists [sic] has an increased heart rate and respiration. That means that the act of riding a bike results in greater emissions of carbon dioxide from the rider. "

Really?

Keep digging.

#29 | Posted by 726 at 2013-03-04 02:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

Then what's the point of the comparison?

#27 | POSTED BY CHIEFTUTMOSES

The amount of the CO2 released while riding a bike vs the CO2 released while driving a car.

#30 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-04 02:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

Orcutt wrote: "If I am not mistaken, a cyclists [sic] has an increased heart rate and respiration. That means that the act of riding a bike results in greater emissions of carbon dioxide from the rider. "

Keep digging.
#29 | POSTED BY 726

Under what kind of warped liberal logic can you posabbly dispute that statement

#31 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-04 02:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

"riding bicycles causes more pollution than cars"

That is the erroneous statement.
All the carbon emitted by a mammal was captured from the atmosphere by a plant.

All the carbon emitted by a car was trapped in the earth before mammals even existed.

#32 | Posted by Zatoichi at 2013-03-04 02:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

"So I guess from your non answer you can't dispute my reaction to this article. "

I gave you an answer. The narrow focus of his comments make them stupid, irrelevant and disingenuous.

You really can't see that making such a narrowly focused comment is stupid and intentionally misleading to anyone so stupid that they can't see through it?

That's a shame.

#33 | Posted by Sully at 2013-03-04 02:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

On most threads I think Panny really believes the things he posts. But the effort here is so minimal that I suspect he's just trolling.

#34 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2013-03-04 02:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

#33 | POSTED BY SULLY

Reread the posts on this. There is no possible way for you to dispute my comments. The source of the CO2 was not an issue in Orcutt's statement.

#35 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-04 02:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

If you have been paying attention I have been beating that drum for years now.

#26 | POSTED BY PANEOCON AT 2013-03-04 02:10 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

You and Hannity.

#36 | Posted by ClownShack at 2013-03-04 02:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

The source of the CO2 was not an issue in Orcutt's statement.

#35 | POSTED BY PANEOCON AT 2013-03-04 02:54 PM

The Source?

He's comparing car exhaust (source #1) to humans breathing harder due to bicycling (source #2).

You're welcome.

#37 | Posted by ClownShack at 2013-03-04 02:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

#34 | POSTED BY HAGBARD_CELINE

It's real simple Hagbard, take my words and prove me wrong. If any one does that I'll apologize for my error and slink away.

#38 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-04 02:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

Orcutt wrote: "If I am not mistaken, a cyclists [sic] has an increased heart rate and respiration. That means that the act of riding a bike results in greater emissions of carbon dioxide from the rider. "

Under what kind of warped liberal logic can you posabbly dispute that statement

#31 | Posted by paneocon

Emissions from breathing hard < emissions from resting resperation + tailpipe emmisions. It's pretty simple math actually.

#39 | Posted by Portside at 2013-03-04 02:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

"The amount of the CO2 released while riding a bike vs the CO2 released while driving a car"

I thought you said the source is not the subject of Orcutt's comments?

#40 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2013-03-04 02:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

#37 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

No he not comparing the car exhaust to CO2 from physical exercise.

Orcutt wrote: "If I am not mistaken, a cyclists [sic] has an increased heart rate and respiration. That means that the act of riding a bike results in greater emissions of carbon dioxide from the rider. "

A great insight into the liberal mind. Just make stuff up and repeat it often enough and it becomes the truth.

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."
Joseph Goebbels

#41 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-04 03:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

FTS:Orcutt told Seattle Bike Blog that "you would be giving off more CO2 if you are riding a bike than driving in a car," although he admitted to having no evidence to back the claim.

First he makes erroneous statements.

Then He Admits he's just another Fox Journalist, making up information as he goes along.

#42 | Posted by ClownShack at 2013-03-04 03:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

#39 | POSTED BY PORTSIDE

The tail pipe was never part of the statement!

#43 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-04 03:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

#40 | POSTED BY CHIEFTUTMOSES

Nice try.

#44 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-04 03:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

No he not comparing the car exhaust to CO2 from physical exercise.

Orcutt wrote: "If I am not mistaken, a cyclists [sic] has an increased heart rate and respiration. That means that the act of riding a bike results in greater emissions of carbon dioxide from the rider. "

#41 | Posted by paneocon

So if we don't count the tailpipe emissions he is correct. Well we just need to get that magic gasoline that doesn't produce CO2 when burned...

#45 | Posted by Portside at 2013-03-04 03:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

A great insight into the liberal mind. Just make stuff up and repeat it often enough and it becomes the truth.

Yea, right. so then why did Orcutt:"admitted to having no evidence to back the claim."

Maybe because he's making things up and repeating it so you believe it's the truth.

See, you're just making things up and repeating it ad nauseum.

#46 | Posted by ClownShack at 2013-03-04 03:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

What a [...] thread. If you don't know that it takes a vastly greater amount of energy--from fossil fuels--to move a 3000 pound vehicle than a bicycle, you are probably from Texas.

#47 | Posted by nullifidian at 2013-03-04 03:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

So if we don't count the tailpipe emissions he is correct. Well we just need to get that magic gasoline that doesn't produce CO2 when burned...

#45 | POSTED BY PORTSIDE AT 2013-03-04 03:04 PM |

Republican's main strength is their half truths. If you make up a bogus argument, but have a sliver of truth in it, and you only focus on that one point of truth in your erroneous statement then your not really lying. You're just a republican.

Breathing causes more CO2 than not breathing. Republican's should propose a breathing tax.

#48 | Posted by ClownShack at 2013-03-04 03:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

I'm not sure what all the lib hissy fit here is all about. This is YOUR kind of guy. Rep. Ed Orcutt is attempting to raise taxes by pointing out that cyclists release CO2? This is a lib dream. More taxes and less CO2.

WA rep says tax bike sales, cyclists add to pollution

OLYMPIA, Wash. – A Washington state representative who serves as a ranking Republican on the State Transportation Committee may be an unlikely proponent of a tax that would require everyone who buys a bike for more than $500 to pay a $25 fee.

www.kgw.com

#49 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-04 03:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

"The tail pipe was never part of the statement!"

But earlier you wrote: "The amount of the CO2 released while riding a bike vs. the CO2 released while driving a car"

So just what exactly does "VS." mean in your special dictionary?

#50 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2013-03-04 03:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

Breathing causes more CO2 than not breathing. Republican's should propose a breathing tax.

#48

No, They should just stop breathing all together.

#51 | Posted by Portside at 2013-03-04 03:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

#51 | POSTED BY PORTSIDE

Now that's just not nice.

#52 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-04 03:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

Now that's just not nice.

#52

you're right I a sorry...

#53 | Posted by Portside at 2013-03-04 03:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Ed Orcutt is attempting to raise taxes by pointing out that cyclists release CO2? This is a lib dream. More taxes and less CO2."

How does discouraging commuting by bike result in less CO2 overall if the former bikers are going to use other forms of transportation that produce more CO2?

Duh. It doesn't.

That's why his whole point is disingenous. This would be like me saying "The Kansas City Royals should have a salary cap". And you say "Why, that's idiotic." And I say "Because they make much more money in Kansas City than any other team in the league." What I'm saying might be technically true. But why would I limit the discussion to money made in Kansas City only unless I'm just being an idiot, dishonest jackass? And because my justification for what I want is so stupid and dishonest, I've done a horrible job at justifying what I'm championing.

It makes absolutely no sense to judge MLB revenue and competitive balance solely based on money made in Kasas City just as it makes abosulutely no sense to judge the environmental effects of transportation based on how much people are breathing.

That this had to be spelled out for you in this type of detail should be an embarassment. But you have no shame.

#54 | Posted by Sully at 2013-03-04 03:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

#54 | POSTED BY SULLY

I know I'm coming off like DANFORTH here but I started out defending Rep. Orcutt exact statement as truthful and no one here has made their case otherwise.

Was it a reasonable comparison? probably not but I suspect considering the law that most likely brought this on I suspect Rep. Orcutt was making a statement based on the following law.

Gas, car-tab taxes drive House Dems' transportation plan
OLYMPIA -- House Democrats rolled out a nearly $10 billion transportation package Wednesday that would boost taxes on gasoline, increase car tabs and even charge a bicycle fee to raise money.

There's even a $25 sales fee on bicycles worth $500 or more that would raise $1 million over 10 years, a nod to motorists who complain that bicyclists don't pay their fair share.

seattletimes.com

So you see it the Dems who proposed the law and you are busy raking a Republican over the coals.

Both Rep. Orcutt and I will accept apologies here.

#58 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-04 04:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

So is he saying that the person riding the bike puts out more CO2 than if he were driving a car, or is he saying that the person riding a bike puts out more CO2 than the car? The article seems to be mixing it up.

Anyhow, humans do put out a lot of CO2...

Explosive volcanic eruptions might be attention grabbing, but a new review of research finds that their environmental impact pales in comparison to human activities. According to the research, humans put out the same amount of carbon dioxide in three to five days that all of the volcanoes on Earth put out in one year.

#60 | Posted by sames1 at 2013-03-04 04:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

Nobody tell Paneocon... Lawmaker apologizes for saying bicyclists pollute -- by breathing

#61 | Posted by snoofy at 2013-03-04 10:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

The abject stupidity on this thread is disgusting.

No wonder this country is circling the drain.

#62 | Posted by jpw at 2013-03-04 10:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

#62 | POSTED BY JPW

None of the poster's are as stupid as they appear, it's just sport trolling.

Can't write off the world because it, tempting as it is.

#63 | Posted by Lohocla at 2013-03-05 03:24 AM | Reply | Flag:

I can see it's very difficult for the left to argue against reason. This Orcutt guy raises a very interesting issue. What he misses though is that if there's going to be taxes on lefties for exhaling CO2 there should also be taxes on some of them (especially a windfall tax on Obama) for the methane gas they exhale. They have no regard at all for the environment that the rest of us cherish.

#64 | Posted by matsop at 2013-03-05 06:44 AM | Reply | Flag:

Why does it smell like rotten eggs after I Read Matsop's posts?

#65 | Posted by danni at 2013-03-05 07:23 AM | Reply | Flag:

See this is where Liberal are clearly superior to Republicans (and some conservatives), liberals can stay on message and beat this idiot republican into not even standing behind the simple obvious truth that someone doing physical output produces more CO2 than someone sitting on their butt driving a car. Democrats who are the ones who proposed the $25.00 bike tax walk away unscathed. Ain't America a wonderful country!

Lawmaker apologizes for saying bicyclists pollute -- by breathing
State Rep. Ed Orcutt, R-Kalama, shifted gears Monday morning, apologizing for telling a bike-shop owner last week that bicyclists create carbon pollution, simply by exhaling.

"First of all, let me apologize for the carbon emissions line of an e-mail which has caused so much concern within the bicycle community. It was over the top and I admit is not one which should enter into the conversation regarding bicycles," read Orcutt's Monday email to Seattle Bike Blog.

blogs.seattletimes.com

#66 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-05 07:56 AM | Reply | Flag:

...is there no uttered republican ridiculousness (pardon my redundancy)that wingnuts don't feel bound to defend?

Palecon - you are the poster boy of defending the indefensible...

...hope it pays well....

#67 | Posted by 1EyedMan at 2013-03-05 10:01 AM | Reply | Flag:

#67 | POSTED BY 1EYEDMAN

I straighten out you libs for free every chance I get.

#68 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-05 10:03 AM | Reply | Flag:

the simple obvious truth that someone doing physical output produces more CO2 than someone sitting on their butt driving a car.

There ya go. If you can't win the argument make a false equivalence and throw in a false choice fallacy all in one! Nicely done!

#70 | Posted by YAV at 2013-03-05 11:49 AM | Reply | Flag:

the simple obvious truth that someone doing physical output produces more CO2 than someone sitting on their butt driving a car.


If you want to talk about organically produced CO2, you are correct. If you want to talk about actual CO2 production, you are very wrong.

#71 | Posted by kanrei at 2013-03-05 11:52 AM | Reply | Flag:

.is there no uttered republican ridiculousness (pardon my redundancy)that wingnuts don't feel bound to defend?

#67 | Posted by 1EyedMan at 2013-03-05 10:01 AM | Reply |

I notice rethugs defend even demonrat Biden's right to repetitively say stupid things.

#72 | Posted by matsop at 2013-03-05 11:56 AM | Reply | Flag:

...apparently you are having a comprehesion problem 'SOP.

Even I will defend every dumb repukes (pardon my redundancy) right to say stupid things...

...but YOU will defend every stupid thing they say.

...Bit of a diff' there...I know repukes don't handle nuance very well - so look it up and give it a try...

...LOL...

#73 | Posted by 1EyedMan at 2013-03-05 04:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

Bikes pollute more than cars?

Yes, they do indeed.

www.youtube.com

Crisis

#74 | Posted by crisisstills at 2013-03-05 04:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

About 19.64 pounds of carbon dioxide (CO2) are produced from burning a gallon of gasoline that does not contain ethanol. Most of the retail gasoline now sold in the U.S. contains about 10% ethanol by volume. Under international agreement, CO2 from ethanol and other biofuels are not counted at the tailpipe, so burning a gallon of gasoline with 10% ethanol produces about 17.68 pounds of CO2.

www.eia.gov

A person produces 1kg per day,ok more if you ride a bike. I didn't see any scientific facts to back this idiots claims. The Tour de France has chasers in cars, so this simple fact compared side by side autos produce more co2 then humans.

state Rep. Ed Orcutt (R).. thinks that riding bicycles causes more pollution than driving cars, ...

His first problem is that he thinks.

rwd

#75 | Posted by rightwingdon at 2013-03-05 04:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

The party of Science Fiction.

#76 | Posted by tiger150 at 2013-03-06 09:51 AM | Reply | Flag:

someone doing physical output produces more CO2 than someone sitting on their butt driving a car.

Yeah, if you ignore the car. Which only a moron would do.

#77 | Posted by snoofy at 2013-03-06 02:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

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