Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, March 04, 2013

Acting US Secretary of Labor Seth D. Harris has been talking to low-wage workers around the country about President Obama's proposal to increase the minimum wage to $9 an hour from $7.25 by 2015 -- a pay hike the White House estimates would give nearly 15 million people a raise. Katie Johnston of the Globe staff spoke with Harris after he met with workers at the Action for Boston Community Development food bank in Roxbury.

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sames1

 

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Yup...they keep screwing around. Why not make the min wage $100 an hour and really give them poor suckers a boost?

#1 | Posted by sames1 at 2013-03-04 09:31 AM | Reply | Flag:

Food stamps to the poor? Outrageous!

Raise the minimum wage to get them off food stamps? Outrageous!

#2 | Posted by 726 at 2013-03-04 09:38 AM | Reply | Flag:

I'm good with it. It'll just raise work comp premiums right along with it.

But it won't really remove folks from assistance such as food stamps, etc..

it takes a special kind of stupid to think you can just artifically raise wages above the poverty line.

#3 | Posted by eberly at 2013-03-04 09:49 AM | Reply | Flag:

"it takes a special kind of stupid to think you can just artifically raise wages above the poverty line."

Really? So all the previous minimum wage increases were imaginary?

#4 | Posted by nullifidian at 2013-03-04 09:57 AM | Reply | Flag:

Obama since he has no experience of working for a living before becoming POTUS is being led around by the hand by economists/Fed to push those poicies that would rekindle inflation. With the debt/deficits we have, there are only 4 options of preventing the abyss 1. increased taxes 2. decreased spending 3. increased growth 4. inflation. Well, we've taken a halfhearted stab at #1 and #2 but those two don't help out #3 which already sucks and will continue to suck due to Obama's policies of the first 4 years. So all you have left is #4----so let's do some "cost push" inflation measures of which an increase in the minimum wage is one. Of course the Bernank is at the door of his helicopter throwing money out all over the place----ultimately some of that should stick if he's lucky.

#5 | Posted by matsop at 2013-03-04 10:07 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Really? So all the previous minimum wage increases were imaginary?"

no, of course not. But it didn't raise anybody out of poverty either, which was my point.

#6 | Posted by eberly at 2013-03-04 10:08 AM | Reply | Flag:

no, of course not. But it didn't raise anybody out of poverty either, which was my point.

#6 | Posted by eberly at 2013-03-04 10:08 AM | Reply

I don't know about that; maybe Null is posting out of personal experience---I notice he has a computer with a keyboard.

#7 | Posted by matsop at 2013-03-04 10:10 AM | Reply | Flag:

All this will do is put more people out of work or send them to Part Time land. Where do these people think money comes from?

If it's so viable to get people out of poverty and off welfare and food stamps by simply and magically raising the min wage, then hell, let's really raise it to a level that puts everyone on easy street.

#8 | Posted by sames1 at 2013-03-04 10:13 AM | Reply | Flag:

LOL

I'm okay with it for more than my personal selfish reasons. It's okay to raise it for inflation.

But I get a kick out of leftists who think that we keep the minimum wage low to keep people in poverty as though there is some logic to that.

Wage is a commodity. the reason people earn minimum wage is because they have a minimum skill. Leftists want to blame the wage but it's really the skill's fault.

#9 | Posted by eberly at 2013-03-04 10:15 AM | Reply | Flag:

and I'm not picking on Null who is one of the most independent posters here

#10 | Posted by eberly at 2013-03-04 10:18 AM | Reply | Flag:

Leftists want to blame the wage but it's really the skill's fault.

Bingo.

#11 | Posted by sames1 at 2013-03-04 10:21 AM | Reply | Flag:

10: Good man, Eb.

#12 | Posted by pragmatist at 2013-03-04 10:22 AM | Reply | Flag:

10: Good man, Eb.

#12 | Posted by pragmatist at 2013-03-04 10:22 AM | Reply

Geeeze, let's have a love-fest.

#13 | Posted by matsop at 2013-03-04 10:27 AM | Reply | Flag:

that sounds like fun.

Prag? wanna join Mat and myself??

#14 | Posted by eberly at 2013-03-04 10:31 AM | Reply | Flag:

"----so let's do some "cost push" inflation measures of which an increase in the minimum wage is one."

They have NO IDEA what you're talking about. From the White House right on down our little "progressive" pals are steeped in academia (and community organizing) and indoctrinated by idiots like Paul Krudman. They will stand up at a podium and shout about how someone can't support a family on minimum wage...well, it was NEVER intended that they should HAVE a family while on minimum wage. Do they really believe that businesses are really gonna hire someone to retrieve shopping carts from the parking lot and pay enough to support a family? What's really gonna happen as they raise the minimum wage is that they are gonna hire fewer teenagers to do those sorts of things. Yes, there will some cost-push inflation as a result. Anybody with some knowledge might understand that a raise in wages without an increase in production is inflationary.

#15 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2013-03-04 10:36 AM | Reply | Flag:

#12 | Posted by pragmatist

Ohhhh...I'm really hurt. How come you never say that to ME, Prag?

#16 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2013-03-04 10:37 AM | Reply | Flag:

well, it was NEVER intended that they should HAVE a family while on minimum wage.

While I welcome Jest's pro-abortion stand to prevent the great unwashed from procreating before their time, I do believe forcing some guy who, say, worked for ENRON, made a good living and had a couple of kids being forced to execute his family when he discovered Bush buddy Kennyboy had tanked the company and trashed his pension, and a minimum wage job was all he could find.

Or maybe Jest was being compassionate and meant he should sell his kids? Little blond girls are apparently valuable in saudi arabia and little boys in the vatican.

#17 | Posted by northguy3 at 2013-03-04 12:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I do believe forcing some guy who, say, worked for ENRON, made a good living and had a couple of kids being forced to execute his family when he discovered Bush buddy Kennyboy had tanked the company and trashed his pension, and a minimum wage job was all he could find."

who?

in any case, we aren't raising the minimum wage to help that guy, even if he exists....which isn't likely there are many like that.

if you have to invent an extreme case of someone earning a minimum wage to make an argument.....it's sort of a waste of time.

#18 | Posted by eberly at 2013-03-04 12:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

All this will do is put more people out of work

www.irle.berkeley.edu

These caveats notwithstanding, our results explain the
sometimes conflicting results in the existing minimum wage
literature. For the range of minimum wage increases over
the past several decades, methodologies using local comparisons
provide more reliable estimates by controlling for
heterogeneity in employment growth. These estimates suggest
no detectable employment losses from the kind of minimum
wage increases we have seen in the United States.
Our analysis highlights the importance of accounting for
such heterogeneity in future work on this topic.

www.cepr.net

Economists have conducted hundreds of studies of the employment impact of the minimum wage. Summarizing those studies is a daunting task, but two recent meta-studies analyzing the research conducted since the early 1990s concludes that the minimum wage has little or no discernible effect on the employment prospects of low-wage workers.
The most likely reason for this outcome is that the cost shock of the minimum wage is small relative to most firms' overall costs and only modest relative to the wages paid to low-wage workers. In the traditional discussion of the minimum wage, economists have focused on how these costs affect employment outcomes, but employers have many other channels of adjustment.

www.economist.com

The most striking impact of Britain's minimum wage has been on the spread of wages. Not only has it pushed up pay for the bottom 5% of workers, but it also seems to have boosted earnings further up the income scale -- and thus reduced wage inequality. Wage gaps in the bottom half of Britain's pay scale have shrunk sharply since the late 1990s. A new study by a trio of British labour-market economists (including one at the Low Pay Commission) attributes much of that contraction to the minimum wage. Wage inequality fell more for women (a higher proportion of whom are on the minimum wage) than for men and the effect was most pronounced in low-wage parts of Britain.

#19 | Posted by 726 at 2013-03-04 01:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

All this will do is put more people out of work

Wrong, someone doesn't seem to know anything about this.

#20 | Posted by moneywar at 2013-03-04 03:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

Wrong, someone doesn't seem to know anything about this.

And that someone is you.

#21 | Posted by sames1 at 2013-03-04 03:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

Obama and all of Congress are idiots. If we don't do something to mitigate the trade deficit, that will just make it that much proportionately cheaper for every company that isn't already to get all their labor overseas.

What they should be doing is capping every company's executive pay to a percentage of their worker's pay - and if we really want change, tie congresses pay to the national median average income.

#22 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2013-03-04 07:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Raise the minimum wage to get them off food stamps? Outrageous!"
#2 | Posted by 726

They will just raise the welfare maximums.

Have a looksie at the unemployment rate the last time they raised the minimum wage. Keep in mind while you are looking at the chart the first full month it went into affect was Aug 2007.

www.google.com

#23 | Posted by KBM at 2013-03-05 12:10 AM | Reply | Flag:

Clinton raised the minimum wage and the economy did fine.

#24 | Posted by Tor at 2013-03-05 12:17 AM | Reply | Flag:

After WW2, the economy went straight back into depression. So Truman raised the minimum wage from 40 cents and hour to 75 cents an hour, and created a massive wave of consumer spending that gave birth to the 50's.

What he did was have economists calculate how much a man with a family needed to make to own a car and a house, and raise his kids. So after Truman, there where no "working poor", even the local soda-jerk could afford not to live in his parents house.

It created a massive economic boom.

Republicans are stupid for opposing this. And the wage should be higer, more like $12 an hour.

#25 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2013-03-05 12:25 AM | Reply | Flag:

HELIUMRAT I like just about every word you posted I just need to know where your info is coming from.

#26 | Posted by Tor at 2013-03-05 12:32 AM | Reply | Flag:

College American History class, Tor. I'm a scientist (well, a computer scientist). To get the specifics on the wage hike, I just typed 'Truman minimum wage' into google.

Most people don't know this, but after WW2 the economy tanked. With the end of massive deficit spending for the war, the economy went straight back into hell. Truman fixed that, and caused the '50's era economic boom, a housing boom, etc....

The G.I. Bill also helped.

#27 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2013-03-05 01:26 AM | Reply | Flag:

Republicans are stupid for opposing this. And the wage should be higer, more like $12 an hour.

Hell no... if it's so good, let's make it $100 or $150 an hour.

#28 | Posted by sames1 at 2013-03-05 10:42 AM | Reply | Flag:

What they should be doing is capping every company's executive pay to a percentage of their worker's pay - and if we really want change, tie congresses pay to the national median average income.

That will fix our trade deficit? Geez.. how about getting government off the backs of companies and let them compete? If every CEO took 0 dollars it wouldn't change the ability of a company to compete hardly at all.

#29 | Posted by sames1 at 2013-03-05 10:45 AM | Reply | Flag:

Have a looksie at the unemployment rate the last time they raised the minimum wage

Numerous studies have concluded that an increase in the minimum wages has a minimal if any effect on unemployment.

Look up the thread for links.

#30 | Posted by 726 at 2013-03-05 06:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

The demonrats don't give the rethugs enough credit on this issue. If the rats would get their act together along with historical facts they would know the rethugs believe in the minimum wage.

#31 | Posted by matsop at 2013-03-05 06:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

#4 | Posted by nullifidian

Facts suck dont it to you liberals.

Supporters argue that a higher minimum wage is an effective anti-poverty tool. If businesses must pay their low-wage employees more, then those workers should earn more and fewer of them should live in poverty. Common sense says a higher minimum wage should fight poverty.

The facts, however, show otherwise. Many economists have examined the evidence and come to the surprising conclusion that the minimum wage does not reduce poverty. Ohio University economists Richard Vedder and Lowell Gallaway examined the effect that increases in the minimum wage had on the overall poverty rate in the United States and on the poverty rates for groups like minorities and teenagers that might especially benefit from higher minimum wages.They found that the minimum wage had no statistically detectable effect on poverty rates.

Other researchers have approached the evidence in different ways and reached the same conclusion. For example, economists David Neumark of the University of California-Irvine, Mark Schweitzer of the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland, and William Wascher of the Federal Reserve Board examined how the minimum wage affects the incomes of families living near the poverty line. In a series of papers, they repeatedly reached the same conclusion as Vedder and Gallaway: A higher minimum wage does not lift low-income families out of poverty. Their results were particularly clear:

The answer we obtain to the question of whether minimum wage increases reduce the proportion of poor and low-income families is a fairly resounding "no." The evidence on both family income distributions and changes in incomes experienced by families indicates that minimum wages raise the incomes of some poor families, but that their net effect is to increase the portion of families that are poor and near-poor.

Whether measured by the poverty rate or by the earnings of low-income families, the minimum wage does not help the poor.

Higher Minimum Wages Cost jobs and Working Hours

A major reason why the minimum wage is such an ineffective anti-poverty tool is that minimum-wage hikes cause businesses to reduce the number of workers they hire and the hours they ask their employees to work.

Most estimates suggest that each 10 percent increase in the minimum wage reduces employment in affected groups of workers by roughly 2 percent. Thus, raising the minimum wage to $7.25 an hour would cost at least 8 percent of affected workers their jobs. A higher minimum wage helps only those workers who actually wind up earning that wage and further disadvantages lower-income workers, who suffer fewer job opportunities and working hours. Though intended to help low-income families get ahead, the minimum wage instead costs some their jobs and others hours at work. This leaves poor families actually worse off.

Few Minimum-Wage Workers Are Poor

Another reason for the failure of higher minimum wages to reduce poverty is that the vast majority of minimum-wage workers do not live in poverty. Much of the benefit of a higher minimum wage accrues to suburban teenagers and college students, not the heads of poor families. A majority of minimum-wage earners are between the ages of 16 and 24, and over three-fifths of minimum-wage earners work part-time. The average family income of a minimum-wage earner is almost $50,000, and less than one in five live at or below the poverty line.

It therefore should not be surprising that higher minimum wages do little to benefit poor families when minimum-wage workers are only slightly more likely to be poor than is the population as a whole.

#32 | Posted by zack991 at 2013-03-05 07:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

Has anyone at anytime worked at a place where there was NOT an urgent call for higher wages?

#33 | Posted by Diablo at 2013-03-05 09:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

#33
I wish I made more where I am at now, its that or we are all out of work. We all choose to take a pay cut to keep our jobs.

#34 | Posted by zack991 at 2013-03-05 09:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

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