Doesn't the Japanese Navy have frogmen? Just sink the ships in port, like the French did with the Greenpeace idiots. Or take the ships at sea, ensure that the crew is removed, and scuttle them.

"They can't put a price tag on how much it's worth for whales to exist or not. So they fall back on things they do understand: The rule of law and deferring to the interests of the wealthy."

Is it any more than what a deer is worth? What about a squirrel?

A cow?

And if hunting whales pisses you off so bad, the place to start is right here in the US, where the indigenous people of Alaska are still allowed to do do. The Sea Shepherd would have no problem plowing through the hull of the tiny boats the eskiomos use, sending all the whale haters to the bottom of the briny depths.

Surely Diane Feinstein could attach something to her anti-gun ban that would prohibit americans from hunting whales. But then again, you'd probably want the measure to pass.

"It's not the hunting that's the problem, per se, it's the impact of the hunt on the ecosystem. Biodiversity is necessary for a healthy and more resilient environment. This means deer should be hunted, preferably by wolves and other large predators, but since we've removed them it's up to us."

I guess I don't understand why it would be preferable for wolves or cats to hunt deer, but not humans.

"Whales don't have much in the way of natural predators. Some small amount of hunting can be tolerated. But the Japanese are lying when they say it's for research; it's for meat."

If you are arguing against wanton destruction of a species, that's certainly one thing. You're not going to find many who support the utter extinction of any animal. And in many cases, hunters are also some of the greatest conservationists, because they want there to be animals to hunt in the future. The Sea Shepherd Pirates act not out of concern that whales may become extinct (at least not entirely-some species of whale are not at all endangered). They do it out of a sense that it is immoral for someone to kill marine mammals. In that way, they aren't much different than the anti-abortion activists who use direct action against abortion providers.

"Madbomber's point about indigenous people is irrelevant as they are already excluded from the moratorium."

If your concern truly was to prevent whales from becoming extinct, then there should be no exemptions. In fact, some conservationists have already called for an end to indigenous hunting in the US out of fears that the hunts are unsustainable given the population totals of the whales that are being harvested.

"You're projecting your make-believe reason as to why anyone who opposes hunting must do so. It's not the act of hunting. It's the size of the take, and how that impacts the ecosystem."

So you're concern is more about sustainability. That's legitimate. Like I said, You're not going to find too many hunter who want to be the the guy to kill the last elk, or even the last black rhino for that matter.

But in that regard you are different from the Sea Shepherd pirates, who attack dolphin hunters, regardless of the fact that dolphins are in no way endangered.

"Because they do a better job of it, and manage to do it without dumping toxic lead in the environment?"

So that's your argument?

If hunters were to suddenly start using cartridges that didn't contain lead, you'd be cool with it? Or would you come up with some other excuse as to why wolves and cats do a better job. BTW, I think if you shared a living space with wolves, you wouldn't be such a fan. Let's just say they've experienced something of a miraculous rebound in the mountain states. SO next time you decide to go to Sun Valley for the weekend, you might want to leave your purse dog at home. Or he might wind up a wolf snack.

"You think human nature has changed so much in a century and a half?"

A) Most whales aren't facing extinction

B) which enemy can we defeat by killing all the whales, if we wnated to? Japan? Did that already. Used a slightly more effective method.

Sustainability of the entire ecosystem, in which each organism has a role to play and a niche to fill.

Including humans? Look at the number of animals harvested every year, specifically by Japan. Humans have hunted whales for millenia. Probably at a lwer rate now than ever before in history.

"In the final episode I saw they got two of their people aboard a whaling vessel via a small boat that pulled up close enough for them to jump on."

"Indigenous people are not armed in such a barbarous manner..."

They use the same tools. Mainly Harpoons. They are the american successor to Captain Ahab.

...and their catch is relatively small so the whales populations can be harvested sustainable. about 50 whales per year out of a population of over 10,000. Conservationists say this is not sustainable.

Off the coast of Smalia, that is definitely called piracy. Maybe the Somalia pirates should begin emulating the Sea Shepherd crew.

"That strategy extends north to Taiwan and includes all the smaller Japanese Islands, including Okinawa, and all the waters between there and mainland China. The Second Islands extend clear out to Palau, Saipan and Iwo Jima."

Saipan is part of the CNMI. A few miles away is Guam, which is a US territory, and one of the largest military bases outside of the continental US. It perpetually hosts a detachment of long range bombers, as well as the HQ for Naval Forces, Marianas.

That's not a fight China wants. Ever.

Snoof,

You're comparing apples (sustainability) with oranges (Sea Shepherd's moral argument against hunting whales). Presumably, based on their own stated mission, SSI would fight against whale hunts even if you couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting a whale. Just like there are those that would fight against hunting anything.

My father shares a lot of your sentiments. Yet he is also a hunter. And he's not alone. One of the things I have been hearing about for years is how ranchers have trashed out much of the public land in this country. You don't come off as much of an outdoorsman, but I would challenge you to find an alpine meadow in this country that wasn't littered with cow patties. Most of the time, these grazing rights are purchased for pennies per acre. In at least one case that I know of where cattle were being grazed on righted public lands inside military operating areas (protected airspace where military aircraft can operate freely), a rancher successfully sued the Air Force on the basis that aircraft noise was harming the livestock. The government paid out a lot of money in damages, yet still allowed the ranchers to graze on those lands.

I wouldn't be comfortable hunting or killing dolphins or whales, but that's because of who I am. If I were Japanese, and I had generations of ancestors who had hunted and eaten marine mammals, my position would probably be much different. Just like an Indian (dot, not feather) would be very uncomfortable with the thought of eating beef. Should the rest of the world refrain from eating beef because it creeps out the folks in Delhi?