The Germans Who Tried to Topple Hitler

Sunday, February 24, 2013

Seventy years ago this week, three German students were executed in Munich for leading a resistance movement against Hitler. Since then, the members of the White Rose group have become German national heroes. Surviving member Liselotte Furst-Ramdohr, 99, was introduced to the group by her friend Alexander Schmorell, who was caught and executed. "I can still see Alex today as he told me about it," she said. "He never said the word 'resistance', he just said that the war was dreadful, with the battles and so many people dying, and that Hitler was a megalomaniac, and so they had to do something." Furst-Ramdohr doesn't like the acclaim she gets today from German society because of how it treated the White Rose decades ago. "At the time, they'd have had us all executed," she said.

Posted by rcade at 03:43 PM | 25 COMMENTS | permalink | Comment on This Entry |

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rcade

Joined 2003/04/04
Visited 2013/05/23

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Most people living under a totalitarian do not like it, even those who are most vocal about liking it. Just read Solzhenitsyn.
It's the same mental illness we see with righties defending Bush and lefties defending Obama. To do otherwise is a shame on them. Gasp! 'I was wrong!'
Many Germans wanted Hitler out. The Bavarian Germans were not of the Prussian sympathizing lot the northern Germans were, but many of them died as soldiers because the country was at war and the alternative seemed unthinkable.
The same with the Japanese. On Guadacanal, the Marines had to keep the warrior class POWs separate from the regular Japanese soldiers. If the guards got to close to the former, they would try even to bite their captors and die with 'honor.'
Sick stuff, but it goes on in our country even today on left and right. True political believers are much more a threat than a Moonie or Bible Belt evangelical.

#1 | Posted by Diablo at 2013-02-24 06:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Die Weiße Rose" great 1982 German film by Michael Verhoeven on DVD with English subs about the group well worth a watch especially if you are interested in 20th century history. Think I will show it this Friday to friends in honor of those that died 70 years ago.

#2 | Posted by THomewood at 2013-02-24 08:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

"True political believers are much more a threat than a Moonie or Bible Belt evangelical."

Sorry bub. NOT EVEN CLOSE. Anyone who's been watching what's happened in this country for the last 3 decades would know what kind of BS that sentence is. Sinclair Lewis is attributed with "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." That, from a man who died more than 60 years ago.

Then, there's a couple of problems with notions about Bavaria. For starters, Hitler joined the Bavarian Army in order to fight in WWI. Secondly, he got his political start in Bavaria's capital, Munich (perhaps you might have heard of a little attempted coup?). Bavaria, after WWI, was far more right-wing than Prussia; the NDSAP (the forerunner to the Nazi Party) was centered in Munich. The reason for Hitler's attempted coup was because he didn't feel it was right-wing enough. It was only after the NDSAP was banned from Munich that Hitler moved north. During WWII, the Bavarians were no less fond of Hitler than the Prussians. While von Stauffenberg was born in Bavaria, he had Prussian relatives but he wasn't the only person involved in plots against Hitler. AND, we shouldn't forget that the Catholic Church signed a treaty with Germany just 6 months after Hitler came to power to reaffirm the Pope's authority over German Catholics.

#3 | Posted by Anotherjoe at 2013-02-24 09:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

It's only fitting that a cancervative skidmark like Reagan would pay tribute to those who executed members of the White Rose group.

#4 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2013-02-24 09:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sweet Jesus Diablo. How can anyone with two functioning brain cells equate Bush or Obama with totalitarianism? Seriously, do you think anybody with any remotely totalitarian powers would let Cindy Sheehan sit in front of his house in the camera's spotlight? Or let Glen Beck rave like a meth addled arayan? Nobody here would ever mistake me for a Bushite, but what he (and Obama) do or did, was done with the legal authority of the government, and certainly not a pet government like Hitler's reichstag, though certain policies followed 9-11 the same way they followed the reichstag fire. "War" has a way of making people voluntarily give up personal freedoms, albeit temporarily. Worked for Lincoln and FDR.

But yes, people tend to support restrictions more when "their" guys are in charge. Righties loved the PATRIOT Act and warrantless wiretaps until Bush left office. Their favorite line here was "if you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear". They loved drone strikes, too, if I remember correctly, even ones killing Americans in Yemen. Now the pendulum has swung the other way. Pretty soon both sides will come to the middle and do the right thing, whatever that is. Look at the war in VN and its supporters/opponents as an example.

#5 | Posted by northguy3 at 2013-02-24 10:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

Heroes, all of them. What they did took much courage.

I hope I possess such courage, but I have never been put into a situation to where my courage would be put to that test.

To those who work to break any existing paradigm, I say *Cheers*

#6 | Posted by wurster at 2013-02-24 10:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Sinclair Lewis is attributed with 'When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.' That, from a man who died more than 60 years ago."

Sinclair Lewis said, I believe it, that settles it???

"Then, there's a couple of problems with notions about Bavaria. For starters, Hitler joined the Bavarian Army in order to fight in WWI. Secondly, he got his political start in Bavaria's capital, Munich (perhaps you might have heard of a little attempted coup?). Bavaria, after WWI, was far more right-wing than Prussia; the NDSAP (the forerunner to the Nazi Party) was centered in Munich. The reason for Hitler's attempted coup was because he didn't feel it was right-wing enough. It was only after the NDSAP was banned from Munich that Hitler moved north."

He moved north, get it? Bavarians rejected the Nazis. Hitler did not succeed in Bavaria. He moved to the Prussian north where he was welcomed.
Hitler joined the "Bavarian Army"?? You are retarded. And the NSDAP was banned from Munich...yep.

#7 | Posted by Diablo at 2013-02-24 10:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Sweet Jesus Diablo. How can anyone with two functioning brain cells equate Bush or Obama with totalitarianism?"

At least three are needed, I admit.

#8 | Posted by Diablo at 2013-02-24 10:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

The spoon fed sheep always get to have the final say. Fact checking and research is just too damn difficult.

#9 | Posted by AuntieSocial at 2013-02-25 10:43 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Furst-Ramdohr doesn't like the acclaim she gets today from German society because of how it treated the White Rose decades ago. "At the time, they'd have had us all executed," she said."

Good for her.

I was going to post a fake quote from her saying "You know, the only thing that stopped us from succeeding was ALL THE OTHER GERMANS. All of you who are calling me a hero today, your friggin grandparents and great-grandparents were almost all Nazi supporters to varying degrees, leaning towards "enthusiastic" more often than has ever been acknowledged...."

But now I see that she's taken care of that herself.....

#10 | Posted by Sully at 2013-02-25 11:21 AM | Reply | Flag:

your friggin grandparents and great-grandparents were almost all Nazi supporters to varying degrees, leaning towards "enthusiastic" more often than has ever been acknowledged...."

Amen, Sully. And there were many many folks from Holland and other "occupied" territories who were thrilled to serve under Hitler. Most of the guys fighting the Russians in Berlin in 1945 were imports. They fought hardest because defeat and capture meant death when they were repatriated. There was something like 50,000 Dutch fighting in Russia under the Germans.

#11 | Posted by northguy3 at 2013-02-25 12:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

Furst-Ramdohr doesn't like the acclaim she gets today from German society because of how it treated the White Rose decades ago. "At the time, they'd have had us all executed," she said.

No kidding. Hell, they'd have stood in lines wrapping around the block to turn the White Rosers in and curry whatever favor they'd have received from the Nazis in return.

It's not unusual in human behavior, of course. There's a terrific book by historian Christopher Browning about some "regular guys" who enlisted in a reserve police battalion, most of them so they wouldn't end up on the Eastern Front, who, natch, ended up on the Eastern Front where nearly all of them willingly participated in the Holocaust. It's called Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland (www.amazon.com).

#12 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2013-02-25 12:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

#11 | Posted by northguy3 at 2013-02-25 12:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

Another thing is, many of the puppet rulers in "occupied" countries were more enthusiastic about participating in genocide against their Jewish countrymen than Italy was under Mussolini. Not that he wasn't a murderous dirtbag in his own right, but Mussolini stalled Hitler on the whole genocide thing and the Germans eventually had to occupy Italy in order to get them to comply.

#13 | Posted by Sully at 2013-02-25 01:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

I was watching a Nazi doc on History channel and learned something I had never really considered. It discussed all of the German film makers who fled the country b/c of Hitler and his vision of Germany. I knew of Einstein but, the doc said it cost Hitler greatly b/c they had to start from scratch on propaganda films. Then, I thought jesus. Those people would've really drank the kool aid if they had good film makers.

#14 | Posted by Dalton at 2013-02-25 01:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

Einstein was a film maker too? Talk about a renaissance man.

#15 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2013-02-25 01:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

At least three are needed, I admit.

#8 | Posted by Diablo

America is not a totalitarian regime....it is a Corporatocracy.

One you are supporting with all of your three functioning brain cells.

#16 | Posted by donnerboy at 2013-02-25 01:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Einstein was a film maker too?"

Low blow bro!

#17 | Posted by northguy3 at 2013-02-25 01:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

Einstein? Eisenstein? Or are you guys talking about the Albert Einstein who directed "Lost in America," the guy who provides the voice for Russ Cargill on "The Simpsons" and Marlin the clownfish in "Finding Nemo"?

#18 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2013-02-25 01:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Low blow bro!"

Sometimes the muse comes down and puts your hands on the keyboard.

#19 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2013-02-25 01:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sorry. I should have clarified. I only meant that I knew about Germany losing Einstein's contributions and never considered the other intellectuals and how losing film makers cost them in their propaganda. But, you losers knew that.

#20 | Posted by Dalton at 2013-02-25 02:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

#20

Just admit you laughed, Dalton.

#21 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2013-02-25 02:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

Just a little.

#22 | Posted by Dalton at 2013-02-25 02:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

#14 Dalton, Google "Leni Riefenstahl". Watch "Olympia", maybe "Triumph of the Will".

You don't have to be a Nazi worshipper to see the aesthetic side of those films and the brilliance of the cinematographer.

She did not flee Germany and was chastised for the rest of her long life stewards.

#23 | Posted by Futility at 2013-02-25 05:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

Stewards= afterwards

#24 | Posted by Futility at 2013-02-25 05:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Nothing is more shameful to a civilized nation than to allow itself to be "governed" by an irresponsible clique of sovereigns who have given themselves over to dark urges – and that without resisting. Isn't it true that every honest German is ashamed of his government these days? Who among us can imagine the degree of shame that will come upon us and upon our children when the veil falls from our faces and the awful crimes that infinitely exceed any human measure are exposed to the light of day? If the German nation is so corrupt and decadent in its innermost being that it is willing to surrender the greatest possession a man can own, a possession that elevates mankind above all other creatures, namely free will – if it is willing to surrender this without so much as raising a hand, rashly trusting a questionable lawful order of history; if it surrenders the freedom of mankind to intrude upon the wheel of history and subjugate it to his own rational decision; if Germans are so devoid of individuality that they have become an unthinking and cowardly mob – then, yes then they deserve their destruction."

I concur.
white-rose-studies.org

#25 | Posted by Huguenot at 2013-02-25 06:20 PM | Reply | Flag: