Entire American F-35 Fleet Grounded

More on the JF-17

www.grandestrategy.com

The original name for the project was "Saber 2" in honor of the Canadian Saber fighter.

BBC report from 1965 on Pakistan Airforce pilots screwing up Indian airforce.

Chuck Yeager was flying all over Pakistan to collect all the crashed Migs we shot down, for American intelligence. He wrote in his book, he had a grand time of it.

Chuck Yeager also interviewed a few of the Indian pilots we captured.

Some of them asked, "Do I know you?"

He told them he was Chuck Yeager.

And the Indians couldn't believe it... "THE Chuck Yeager??? Sound Barrier guy?"

And he used to laugh and say "That's right son... the very same!"

"Ha... actually, you did. I was checking to see if you even knew that about your own country."

All that searching any you never found the Arrow? Tsk tsk.

Oh right... Avro had nothing to do with Pakistan.

youtu.be

Real gun camera footage (and other pics) of Canada made Sabers (and American F-104 Starfighters), shooting down British and Russian aircraft with ease.

Also dropping Phosphorus-Napalm (weapon of choice against Indian tanks and artillery... illegal weapon but who cares) along with destroying a great portion of the Indian airforce while their stupid planes were still parked on their bases.

S.O.P.
I've seen them ground entire fleets of other aircraft for inexplicable nose wheel failures. You err on the side of caution.
#2 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2013-02-23 07:08 AM

Bull. You soak the taxpayer repeatedly, rinse, repeat.

Investing in the F35 is like investing in incandescent light bulbs in 2013. The concept of our pilots flying manned billion dollar planes in dog fights against the planes of other countries or strafing their forces is outrageously obsolete, and based upon the politics of the mil-industrial complex.

The F16 and B1, and B52s will do all we need for now. When US forces need to strafe others they will call in a drone.

Uh... the B1 and B52 don't strafe. You need a cannon to strafe. The F-16 can't fly slow enough to be a good choice against a tiny infantry force. The F-15 actually has upwards deflection in the cannon mount for dogfighting, it's to squeeze out a few extra degrees of target lead in the merge. Unfortunately it means a good chance of hitting the ground trying to strafe with it. There are no cannon armed drones, and drones run a relatively high latency so it'd be pretty dangerous to try it to begin with based on currently fielded technology.

The next A-10 revision will be the premier CAS platform. It is being designed to be optionally-manned, has legendary toughness, fantastic low speed flight envelope, good loiter times, and a very flexible armament. A single A-10 with a couple Precision Kill Weapon System pods could conduct over 100 precision ground attacks from altitude above the engagement range of MANPADS, or you could load it up with Assault Breaker era weapons like the SFW cluster bombs and wipe out armored columns.

That said, Israel just blew up a convoy with an Iranian general in it recently. They were transporting SA-17 systems to Hezbollah. That's a huge upgrade in capability, and you certainly do need stealth weapon systems like the F-35 to be able to operate in the modern threat environment those SAMs can provide. It even requires stealth bombs, because that system can shoot down incoming smart bombs throw at it.

mothball them all. bring on the drones.

All involved want to make sure that whatever caused the crack is unique to that particular blade and not a threat to all F-35 engines. A single-engine warplane like the F-35 could be doomed by a disintegrating turbine blade.

This isn't a new problem with the F-35 powerplant; a similar blade cracked during testing in 2007. "Most likely root cause is resonant response to aerodynamic excitation by the upstream 54 vanes in STOVL operation," an investigation into that earlier failure concluded. "No indication that defects in material properties or single crystal orientation significantly contributed to the failures."

Read more: nation.time.com

We now have around 70-90 of them and you have only 50 of yours. And ours are already being upgraded into a second and more advanced version with the third... stealthy.... version being designed for after 2015.

Pakistan should attack us now...while we are so "weak".

Betcha the guys and gals at NORAD are really wetting themselves over that one.

JF-17 is a generic copy of an F-16... with some added extras.

#17 | Posted by Rigel at 2013-02-24 02:07 AM

That's your biggest problem, that airframe (notwithstanding the improvements over the years) is nearly 40 years old.

The JF-17 is not slated to replace the F-16 (the PAF has ordered an additional 25 F-16D Block 52+ planes over the next 3 years) but to supplement it: the JF-17 was designed as an inexpensive replacement for the French Mirage III and Chinese A-5 and F-7 fighters.

The JF-17 is not slated to replace the F-16

It can't be made fast enough so we still buy F-16 planes to keep our numbers up.

Both planes will work together as will the J-10.

Pakistan should attack us now

Why do you want to be attacked by a friend?

while we are so "weak"

The taliban prove your weakness by kicking you in the teeth every day.

Nobody else needs to top that.

That's your biggest problem, that airframe (notwithstanding the improvements over the years) is nearly 40 years old.

It's not an exact copy, now is it? Think of it as a "re-imagining" of an old classic... like they did with Battlestar Galactica. LOL

Jf-17 aircraft taking off in England.... can you see the black smoke from the Russian engine?

youtu.be
------------------

At Zuhai airshow.

youtu.be

---------------

Testing

youtu.be

If each of these multi-billion dollars planes is the equivalant of a whole squadron of F-5's, then we just lost the ability to send five or so wings of aircraft to fight off the space invaders.

The J-17 is an interesting stop-gap measure. It could do really well in something like a Chinese-Taiwan conflict where it's gen4 vs gen4 fighters. It needs to have a short program life though. Considering Pakistan & India like to fight so much, the Indians will begin fielding PAK-FA by 2020. The J-17 radar has a long range resolution of 5 meters. It'll be shot down without ever knowing it was in a fight, like any gen4 aircraft trying to take on a gen5 stealth fighter.

"Pakistan should attack us now..."

Why do you want to be attacked by a friend?

#36 | Posted by Rigel

please...You have proven over and over that you are not our friends.

while we are so "weak"

The taliban prove your weakness by kicking you in the teeth every day.

Nobody else needs to top that.

#37 | Posted by Rigel

Well there you go...The Taliban have proven it. We are weak...so, so weak...in fact, I am being forced by the Taliban to say this right now...this is your best chance...better take it now before we regain our strength.

The J-17 radar has a long range resolution of 5 meters. It'll be shot down without ever knowing it was in a fight, like any gen4 aircraft trying to take on a gen5 stealth fighter.

#41 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2013-02-25 04:11 PM

Excellent point. The threat envelope for the F-35 is 43 MILES, so a J-17 (or any other 4th gen aircraft) won't even know what hit it before it becomes a wet cloud of its constituent molecules.

**** Defense Contractors Creed: "Building It Expensive but Shoddy.. will Require the US Govt to P-A-Y us Even More $$$!"

It could do really well in something like a Chinese-Taiwan conflict where it's gen4 vs gen4 fighters.

Our JF-17 is not the same as the Chinese JF-17.

Indians will begin fielding PAK-FA by 2020

That's what THEY think. LOL

In any case, by 2020, we won't have the same planes we have today, either.

this is your best chance...better take it now

One would have to lead a very sad life to want to be attacked by his best friend.

Pakastan could not keep out a small group going after the mster terrorist.

Like when US airforce went into hiding when the bad guys brought down three buildings in NY and made a hole in the side of the Pentagon???

, the F-15's and F-16's that we sell are not the same mondels that we use.

Nobody uses your "mondels".... whatever those are.

The J-17 radar has a long range resolution of 5 meters.

New version has new radar capabilities.

It'll be shot down without ever knowing it was in a fight

It is a relatively inexpensive aircraft that is designed to fight in numbers.

Even one-to-one, there is nothing India has.... or will have... that can shoot it down.... unless our pilot is drunk.

It's BVR (beyond visual range targeting systems and weapons) already outmatch those of the F-16.

it is fun watching Donner smack him around.

Donner wants ME to smack him around (for reasons I don't understand).

Read his posts again.

We would bring the F-22

The plane that Obama canceled? LOL

The plane that has a pilot hypoxia problem that can't be fixed? LOL

The plane that requires an air-conditioned billion dollar hanger and support facility to fly??? LOL

Yeah.... bring THAT plane. Please do.

Americans don't seem to understand one thing ... their false-pride gets in the way.

Think of JF-17 vs F-16 (or whatever) as AK-47 vs M-16, right?

M-16 is clearly the superior weapon.... everyone knows that. It's better made and far more accurate.

BUT it was beaten by the Kalashnikov because, the AK could take jungle conditions.... it could take mud... it could take sand... it could take water.... it could take all kinds of crap and still fire. And because it could be produced in far larger numbers.

Understand now?

The plane that Obama canceled? LOL

It's not cancelled, they just chose not to extend production past already agreed upon numbers. We have over 200 hundred of them flying. The hypoxia issue was resolved a year ago and restrictions are lifted. All stealth fighters have to live in hangars and be "buttered" before flight, it's the nature of the beast, and Pakistan will be there one day too when they buy some of those Chinese stealth fighters. They don't have to be so expensive though unless you're setup in Alaska's extreme conditions. F-117s did very well operating out of a relatively hastily constructed base in Saudi Arabia.

Even one-to-one, there is nothing India has.... or will have... that can shoot it down.... unless our pilot is drunk.

Sukhoi Su-30MKI. Superior radar, thrust to weight, wing loading, twin engines, and Russian MRMs that out-range anything Pakistan fields. I would take a Su-30 over a JF-17. Gen4 vs Gen4.5, that's a no-brainer unless you're a silly nationalist.

and "will have", now you're just being sarcastic. PAK-FA is a complete no-contest and the JF-17 has no place attempting to fight it. Dead before you even know you are under attack.

Why do many of the posts here seem to come from people who masturbate to Tom Clancy and Dale Brown "novels?"

The hypoxia issue was resolved a year ago

Link, please?

Sukhoi Su-30MKI. Superior radar, thrust to weight, wing loading, twin engines, and Russian MRMs that out-range anything Pakistan fields.

All rubbish.

India's Su-30 came to US for your war games and just embarrassed itself. The F-16 tore it to pieces.

youtu.be

Listen to YOUR expert on what happened.

now you're just being sarcastic

No I am not.

I am aware of who makes Russia's avionics today. LOL

Get it?

Besides, I doubt if Russia can have a real stealth fighter ready by 2020.

As for us, the JF-17 is not there to fight a stealth class fighter. We will have other stuff for that.

India's Su-30 came to US for your war games and just embarrassed itself.

Not only did it screw itself against the F-15 but also against the single engine F-16.

Russian stuff looks great ... on paper. In reality, it was... and always will be..... garbage.

Also, consider this little fact I am about to tell you.

When two sides go to war, the side that makes it's own equipment, for example, planes (as we do) will usually win against the side that BUYS it's stuff. The US has proven that more than once.

Also, most of the time the SU-30 was grounded for a long time because it keeps getting micro-fractures in it's turbine. And the Indians can't fix it because they didn't make the plane. The Russians take their own sweet time (nearly a year) to do the job. And then it happens again! LOL

After the Bombay attacks, India sent SU-30 fighters to probe our borders.

McChrystal rushed to India and Pak to put out the fires.... we showed him videos of our planes having a lock on the Indians while they were still well within India. We said, "warn them off or else" (and that is exactly what McChrystal did)

They could not get a single lock on our aircraft and your General was convinced of that.

Here is an amateur video of our planes flying over Lahore to engage the Indians with a radar lock. LOL

youtu.be

And these were just F-7 aircraft (heavily modified Chinese Mig-21). LOL

As you can see, we are flying low and zig-zagging all over the place. The Indians were obviously trying to get a lock with their BVR missiles, but couldn't (or else you would've seen an exploding plane).

We do have a few classified tricks people don't know about.

We have over 200 hundred of them flying.

No, you have 187. Not "over 200".

The hypoxia issue was resolved

Nope.
----------------
Since 2010 the F-22 has been plagued by unresolved problems with its pilot oxygen systems which contributed to one crash and death of a pilot. In 2011 the fleet was grounded for four months before resuming flight operations, but reports of oxygen systems issues have continued.

The F-22 has had a number of operational issues which have resulted in the fleet being grounded. The primary concerns regarding the aircraft revolve around pilots experiencing a decreased mental status, to the point of losing consciousness. There have been eight crashes involving the aircraft, two of which resulted in pilot fatalities.

The USAF reported in December 2012 to be considering installing EEG brain wave monitors in the helmets of F-22 pilots to measure brain functioning under flight conditions, making it clear the issue has not entirely been put to rest.[256][257]

In 2012 reports the Air Force concluded that nothing can be done to prevent Raptor cough and that the ground maintainers illnesses were not the result of exposure to toxic substances from the aircraft.
------------------

Okay? Now please, being a silly nationalist (your words) doesn't suit anyone. So lets stop with the little and not so little exaggerations.

All stealth fighters have to live in hangars and be "buttered" before flight, it's the nature of the beast

Each Raptor requires a month-long packaged maintenance plan (PMP) after every 300 flight hours.[240] The aircraft's stealth system, including its radar absorbing metallic skin, account for almost one third of all maintenance.[239] Another source of maintenance problems is that many components require custom hand-fitting and are not interchangeable.

Horrible.

Here is more...
----------

In addition, a number of instances have been reported where the pilot landed successfully but was found to be in a decreased level of alertness. Some pilots experienced memory loss, where they could not recall landing the aircraft. One pilot flew his aircraft through some treetops near the runway, but did not recall the event. In addition, pilots that have flown the aircraft have experienced lingering respiratory problems and a chronic cough. They have also experienced irritability, emotional lability and neurologic changes.
------------

Silly nationalist.... LOL

As I said, even though something might look great on paper, in reality it just might turn out to be garbage.

The Su-30 was restricted from using it's radar in Red Flag by it's own air force. You can't fly into a BVR environment with your radar turned off and expect to do well. They're just not willingly to constantly give out their frequencies, not an uncommon tactic. In the visual merge with F-15s over the Indian Ocean they won 90%, when the F-15 was restricted from BVR. I'd say that's poor circumstances to judge either of those aircraft on.

Underestimating Russian avionics is not a great idea. They led the world for decades in radar development and only fell behind with the advent if high powered processors, which they've since adapted to since.

on the F-22, just google it, lots of links. Faulty valve in the g-suit vest, fixed as of July last year. Secondary issue with warming up inside a closed hangar in sub zero Alaska causing hypoxia issues with the pilot and ground crew, resolved by chemical sniffers and better procedures was fixed well before that.

Besides, I doubt if Russia can have a real stealth fighter ready by 2020.

That we agree we on =P 2020 does seem a little fast, but 2025 doesn't seem far fetched for PAK-FA production models to be available. I don't expect it to have the RCS of an export model F-35, but they seem to have fixed many of the initial non-stealthy external features like adding jagged edges to the gear doors.

You're right about Russian customer service lol. I've never had what I'd qualify as "good experiences", and that's mainly just video game companies there.

As for us, the JF-17 is not there to fight a stealth class fighter. We will have other stuff for that.

You don't always get the choice. It seems like a better export product than indigenous defense fighter. Most countries don't have neighbors getting ready to field PAK-FA and would be a solid market for it.

Why do many of the posts here seem to come from people who masturbate to Tom Clancy and Dale Brown "novels?"

#56 | Posted by john47 at 2013-02-26 08:28 AM | Reply | Flag:

That fiction is ridiculously boring. I'm into aircraft though, all kinds. If you'd like to come play a study-sim with me, you can download FreeFalcon 6 here: www.lockonfiles.com

Pretty sure there's a Pakistan-India campaign available, and you get to sim without silly political ROE.

The Su-30 was restricted from using it's radar in Red Flag by it's own air force.

Link?

Underestimating Russian avionics is not a great idea.

What "Russian avionics"?

They are begging China for avionics now. LOL

You don't always get the choice.

Oh, we have choices.

It seems like a better export product than indigenous defense fighter.

It's both. The export model doesn't have the stuff ours does, of course.

Now you seem like a smart fellow.

I am not going to say it here... I will let you figure it out when you put three of my statements together:

1. We do have a few classified tricks people don't know about.

2. They are begging China for avionics now.

3. They could not get a single lock on our aircraft and your General was convinced of that.

LOL... yeah, exactly.

en.wikipedia.org

There's several links off the operational history stuff. One is an F-15 pilot assessment from Red Flag where he talks about how they actually exploit the thrust vectoring against the Sukhoi and force it into a high speed stall. Clever trick. The current radar in most of them is the N011M Bars which can twizz 15 targets and engage 4. If Russian gear were so terrible, they wouldn't be staying with Russian companies and installing Zhuk-AE radars and other upgrades to make "Super Sukhois" imho.

Oh, we have choices.

Buy J-20s lol. In fact isn't the lead designer of the Chengdu J-20 & the J-17 Thunder the same guy? I think what I like best about the J-17 is the fact that the systems are coded in C++.