Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Saturday, February 23, 2013

Weekly Standard: David Goldhill is a liberal Democratic business executive whose father was killed by a hospital-borne infection several years ago. The experience drove him to study the American health care system in search of an explanation. "How is it possible," he writes, "that my father's death was an avoidable accident with no one to blame?" The answer shocked him. Goldhill discovered that health care is unlike any other industry: "Everything about health care -- how we pay for it, how we regulate it, how we judge its effectiveness, how we're willing to accept low standards from it, even how we talk about it -- exists on a separate island from the mainland of every other service or product in our economy."

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Fm page 3:

The place to look for a model is Singapore. That Southeast Asian city-state is smaller than New York City, but its per-capita gross domestic product and life expectancy are similar to those of the United States. Singaporeans spend much less money on health care (4 percent of their economy) than we do (18 percent).

Goldhill identifies three major differences between the Singaporean health system and ours. In Singapore, individuals contribute much more money at the point of purchase. The payment mechanism varies according to treatment and patient. Government doctors and facilities compete with private health care workers. Singaporeans are required to contribute to health savings accounts and purchase a catastrophic insurance plan. There is an insurance pool for the severely disabled and a fund to pay their bills. There are subsidies to providers based on their level of service.

#1 | Posted by uglyblinddate at 2013-02-23 05:00 AM | Reply | Flag:

But the thrust of Singapore's system is individual responsibility for a large portion of direct payment. And the results are positive. "Health care in Singapore is high quality, high-tech, and, by international standards, cheap," writes Goldhill. "Genuinely cheap, not just misleadingly cheap at the point of service."

#2 | Posted by uglyblinddate at 2013-02-23 05:00 AM | Reply | Flag:

Singaporeans are required to contribute to health savings accounts and purchase a catastrophic insurance plan.

Nobody on the American right thinks this is acceptable.

#3 | Posted by snoofy at 2013-02-23 07:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

Now take your pills and die already.

--- Obama'nation---

#4 | Posted by reitze at 2013-02-23 09:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

This guy is right on. In fact his plans for health care for our healthcare system is similar to things I've favored for years. Having been in the system for years, it's obvious the answers by Obamacare will only worsen an already horrible system---we have to have consumers become involved just like they are in other sales/services in the American system---there is no competition in healthcare as far as price points and other issues.

#5 | Posted by matsop at 2013-02-23 10:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Nobody on the American right thinks this is acceptable."

wrong.

#6 | Posted by eberly at 2013-02-23 10:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

very few of the obama cheerleaders, if any, would support such a plan unless Obama suggested it.

#7 | Posted by eberly at 2013-02-23 10:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

Singaporeans are required to contribute to health savings accounts and purchase a catastrophic insurance plan.

Nobody on the American right thinks this is acceptable.

#3 | Posted by snoofy at 2013-02-23 07:37 PM | Reply

Snoop, what are you drinking tonight. I'm all for it as most other responsible and conservative Americans would be. As Eb mentions, the only way Obama cheerleaders would go for it is if Obama suggested it.

#8 | Posted by matsop at 2013-02-23 10:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

Singaporeans are required to contribute to health savings accounts and purchase a catastrophic insurance plan....

Might be a little tough for them to do when you consider the average worker's salary in Singapore for 2011 paid $9,218.00 per year. So again, health savings accounts and catastropic insurance plans (with their predictable high deductibles) work well ONLY for the very healthy and/or the very rich.

#9 | Posted by CalifChris at 2013-02-23 10:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

I'm all for it as most other responsible and conservative Americans would be.

You're in favor of the government requiring you and everyone else to purchase insurance?

#10 | Posted by snoofy at 2013-02-23 10:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

You're in favor of the government requiring you and everyone else to purchase insurance?

#10 | Posted by snoofy at 2013-02-23 10:52 PM | Reply

This conservative is and always has. I don't have a problem with the individual mandate. I just don't like the inefficient government running our healthcare programs.

#11 | Posted by matsop at 2013-02-23 10:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

Might be a little tough for them to do when you consider the average worker's salary in Singapore for 2011 paid $9,218.00 per year. So again, health savings accounts and catastropic insurance plans (with their predictable high deductibles) work well ONLY for the very healthy and/or the very rich.

#9 | Posted by CalifChris at 2013-02-23 10:44 PM | Reply |

Not if the per capita costs come down---then it makes some sense.

#12 | Posted by matsop at 2013-02-23 11:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

Singapore has the best healthcare in Asia. Expats fly there even for routine dental appointments, along with anything else up to serious but non-emergency reasons. English-speaking, Western-trained, and even after accounting for flights and hotels, it's much cheaper. Plus, they have access to prescription drugs that have been approved anywhere in Europe, most of Asia, Australia, and the US. It's nirvana for a free-markets guy.

We could have that in the US, too. But too many liberals around who expect to never have to do much thinking at all when it comes to healthcare for themselves and their own families. I've always thought that strange. The same uberlibbies who wear the shirts that say, "Keep your laws off my body!!!" don't mind outsourcing to Obama's health commissar every decision and every snippet of information about their body. Weird.

Not my problem anymore though.

#13 | Posted by uglyblinddate at 2013-02-23 11:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

Try putting the income level in perspective, $9218 may be a decent wage there. Now granted they most likely do not have three vehicles, five or six big screen TV's, go out to eat most nights, own every kind of high tech gadget the world has to offer, but that might be the acceptable level for that country. Yes if you compare it to the U.S. it is not very much but you need to look at the lifestyle there not hold it up to our standards.

#14 | Posted by gtjr at 2013-02-23 11:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

On the individual mandate, I was initially supportive of it, but not anymore. If you're going to require me to buy insurance, don't tell me the kind of insurance the company is required to offer me. If I want to buy a policy that excludes pre-existing conditions, I'm not allowed to. That gets expensive. Or go to a company that only offers coverage to healthy people, or to non-smokers. Can't do that either. So suddenly "if you like your policy you can keep it" turned out to be totally preposterous.

#15 | Posted by uglyblinddate at 2013-02-23 11:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

Okay so Matsop and Eberly are RINOs, anyone else okay with the government forcing you to buy insurance?

"I just don't like the inefficient government running our healthcare programs."

For moral reasons or economic ones? I am of the opinion the government can run an insurance company for less cost than the private sector. Social Security incurs a 1% overhead. Meanwhile in the private sector a 85% medical loss ratio -- meaning 15% overhead -- is considered acceptable. These programs aren't necessarily comparable but "inefficient government running our healthcare" doesn't seem like an accurate description of what single payer is.

Beyond that, if you look at systems where the government truly does own the delivery network, that would be Military Health, and it's probably the best care delivery system we've got. Will you affirmatively state that you don't like our Military Health System? I doubt it.

For reasons of both morality and economics, if the government is going to require me to purchase insurance (like they do when I work and I pay into SSI) then I think I should have a public option. Something like Military Health as a matter of fact, where I'm not just buying the insurance but also buying into the care and delivery network.

#16 | Posted by snoofy at 2013-02-23 11:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

The ultimate irony is that Obamacare is a disaster and a lot of it won't see the light of day since there is "no mo money"----running out of money is one of the great ways to finally put a limit on government and it's coming whether the "walking dead" lefties and Obungler want it or not. As Howard would say YEAAAAAAWWWWWW; bring on Greece, bring on Italy and Spain. We aren't far behind. Leeeet's get it on!!!!!

#17 | Posted by matsop at 2013-02-23 11:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

For reasons of both morality and economics, if the government is going to require me to purchase insurance (like they do when I work and I pay into SSI) then I think I should have a public option.

#16 | Posted by snoofy at 2013-02-23 11:11 PM | Reply

No prob; the Singapore system has that and it creates competition with the private companies. The only problem you have is to make sure the playing field is level and the government doesn't have an unfair advantage.

#18 | Posted by matsop at 2013-02-23 11:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

The only problem you have is to make sure the playing field is level and the government doesn't have an unfair advantage.

If the private sector doesn't want to handicap themselves they can pay their CEOs according to GSA schedule (SES really), and slash dividend payments while they're at it.

Because, you know, it's unfair that the government doesn't have to pay a dividend.

Ha, ha ha ha ha ha.

#19 | Posted by snoofy at 2013-02-23 11:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

Because, you know, it's unfair that the government doesn't have to pay a dividend.

Ha, ha ha ha ha ha.

#19 | Posted by snoofy at 2013-02-23 11:27 PM | Reply

There's a little something called unlimited printing of money.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

#20 | Posted by matsop at 2013-02-23 11:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

Beyond that, if you look at systems where the government truly does own the delivery network, that would be Military Health, and it's probably the best care delivery system we've got. Will you affirmatively state that you don't like our Military Health System? I doubt it.
Snoofy

I was in the military for 9 years, and it was fine. Two questions though. First, you have a very large population of very healthy people in the military, mostly young. We were running 40 miles a week, doing thousands of pushups and situps, and even when one of us was badly injured or ill, the background made recovery so much easier. You don't have that with the general population, and you never will.

Second, the military healthcare was an important inducement to enlist. Your pay sucked, the hours you worked sucked, being away from loved ones for months at a time sucked. Why should some porker who smokes two packs of cigarettes a day get the same medical treatment as a guy who puts it all on the line every day he puts on a uniform?

#21 | Posted by uglyblinddate at 2013-02-23 11:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

All that said, there were a lot of problems with military healthcare delivery, and many of the problems were with dependents. Yes, the results among the healthy, young military personnel were great, just like they would be just about anywhere. But it's a system you can't just say, fine, let's do the same thing for poor people in LA. Doesn't work that way.

Look at the big picture every once in a while. That's another one of the reasons Singapore's system works so well. Frankly, Asians live far healthier, eat healthier, live longer, than almost all of America's blacks, Hispanics, or obese whites. It's literally a shock to the system to go back to the US after spending a few months in Asia. It looks like the whole country were auditioning for those "People of WalMart" videos. Fat everywhere.

#22 | Posted by uglyblinddate at 2013-02-23 11:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

Why should some porker who smokes two packs of cigarettes a day get the same medical treatment as a guy who puts it all on the line every day he puts on a uniform?

Simple. Because he paid for that level of care when he paid his premium.

Just so we're clear, I'm advocating expanding military health beyond active duty... so he wouldn't really get identical coverage. I'm just saying it's a proven system -- and the government runs the whole thing.

My point was I'd be fine with a system where the government actually runs the care delivery network, not just the insurance company a la Medicare/Medicaid. Because there are a ton of people who see the system as a cash cow to be milked. A ton of doctors and health care providers I mean, like the electric wheelchair company that got raided in that recent thread.

#23 | Posted by snoofy at 2013-02-23 11:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

It's literally a shock to the system to go back to the US after spending a few months in Asia. It looks like the whole country were auditioning for those "People of WalMart" videos. Fat everywhere.

No doubt. I'm of the opinion that because we don't have any sort of national health, we've disarmed ourselves of one tool that would help fight that. But it is a big problem and not one that a single payer system or universal coverage would magically fix. I'd even go so far as to say if people had skin in the game we might see better results. When I was in the union our health insurance got cheaper if we joined Weight Watchers, quit smoking, etc. Even something as simple as completing an online health assessment was incentivized. I think these programs can work. But first you have to get over the hurdle of getting people insured in the first place. That's really a necessity if you want the economies of scale to kick in, otherwise people will always be nibbling around the edges. Or doing what we spend so much time and money doing in our (non-)system: Fighting over who gets stuck with the bill.

#24 | Posted by snoofy at 2013-02-23 11:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

It is impossible to be completely clear of any infection, short of everyone going into isolation.

#25 | Posted by rearendhat at 2013-02-24 12:02 AM | Reply | Flag:

The one who gets stuck with the bill is the patient. That'll put all kinds of skin in the game. It encourages the patient to shop around, to be healthy, to be selective in which doctor he goes to.

The US health care system is the worst of all worlds, as far as any of that goes. But Matsop is right: it'll all come crashing down. And we should embrace it, not try to save it. ObamaCare just shoved the day of reckoning that much closer.

#26 | Posted by uglyblinddate at 2013-02-24 12:02 AM | Reply | Flag:

The US health care system is the worst of all worlds, as far as any of that goes

LOL. The right-wing has really changed their tune on health care in just a few short years.

#27 | Posted by snoofy at 2013-02-24 12:05 AM | Reply | Flag:

Since when? The right wing has always said that the government needs to be out of it completely, that we should be able to shop around for whatever care or policy best suits us, and that unhealthy people should pay far, far more for the same coverage. That's life. Government rules and edicts and mandates and money make everything much more expensive, not less so.

And, frankly, if Singapore imported a large population of blacks and Hispanics who suddenly expected to be taken care of without paying for it, the system would collapse there too. ObamaCare doesn't do anything about that problem.

Again, it's not my concern anymore. Let the libbies in America try to figure it out. They voted for this turd of a law. I've already voted with my feet. Not my problem.

#28 | Posted by uglyblinddate at 2013-02-24 12:15 AM | Reply | Flag:

The right wing has always said that the government needs to be out of it completely

If the government requires you to buy insurance, they're not out of it completely, now are they?

that we should be able to shop around for whatever care or policy best suits us

Able to, or forced to? A biiiig outcry from the riiiight was the government forcing people to buy a product.

#29 | Posted by snoofy at 2013-02-24 12:32 AM | Reply | Flag:

And, frankly, if Singapore imported a large population of blacks and Hispanics who suddenly expected to be taken care of without paying for it, the system would collapse there too. ObamaCare doesn't do anything about that problem.

Only a time machine will solve that problem. And then there'd be no America since slaves built it.

#30 | Posted by snoofy at 2013-02-24 12:33 AM | Reply | Flag:

Sure. Slaves built America. Fascinating.

#31 | Posted by uglyblinddate at 2013-02-24 12:37 AM | Reply | Flag:

I wonder who got better health care, an expensive slave or a fresh off the boat disposable factory worker from Europe.

#32 | Posted by snoofy at 2013-02-24 02:52 AM | Reply | Flag:

The disposable factory workers had to pay their own way, or turn to a community organization. I doubt their employers took much interest in their health care needs.

Why are employers the font of medical insurance in the first place? I mean nowadays, not in slave days. Obviously slaves were dependent on their owners for maintenance and lubing. Why do we now group ourselves by employer for health insurance? Why do we let our employers determine the level of insurance we have for ourselves and families?

#33 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2013-02-24 02:59 AM | Reply | Flag:

i call BS on #8.

#34 | Posted by ichiro at 2013-02-24 03:01 AM | Reply | Flag:

Nobody on the American right thinks this is acceptable.
#3 | Posted by snoofy

No BS at all. My company went to an HSA years ago to combat costs. I've had all my children under the HSA plan. Too bad it's getting shut down.

#35 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2013-02-24 03:03 AM | Reply | Flag:

#13 uglyblindate is also insultinguglyblindate.

#36 | Posted by ichiro at 2013-02-24 03:07 AM | Reply | Flag:

gratuitousinsultinguglyblindat
e.

#37 | Posted by ichiro at 2013-02-24 03:09 AM | Reply | Flag:

some employers are the font f disease.

i see ur all for USPHC, it ought to be a Right.

#38 | Posted by ichiro at 2013-02-24 03:11 AM | Reply | Flag:

#31
that's right, blacks, chinese, red and brown.

#39 | Posted by ichiro at 2013-02-24 03:14 AM | Reply | Flag:

Go away.

#40 | Posted by uglyblinddate at 2013-02-24 04:43 AM | Reply | Flag:

Why are employers the font of medical insurance in the first place?

#33 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2013-02-24 02:59 AM | Reply | Flag:

That comes from WW2. In WW2 the government instituted wage caps in industry. Companies still had to compete for quality labor though to fill their massive government contracts. That's when non-monetary compensation like health insurance came to the fore and after became ingrained in American culture.

Makes me glad I get paid more and can pick whatever insurance I want.

#41 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2013-02-24 08:30 AM | Reply | Flag:

we have to have consumers become involved just like they are in other sales/services in the American system---there is no competition in healthcare as far as price points and other issues.

That is the doctors/HC industry fault not the consumer.

Have you ever tried to price shop a procedure? You won't get very far.

That is if you have time, if you are lying in the hospital with a doctor telling you we operate now or you die are you going to ask how much then pull out your cell to call around for quotes?

#42 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2013-02-24 08:45 AM | Reply | Flag:

if you are lying in the hospital ... then pull out your cell to call around for quotes?
#42 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2013-02-24 08:45 AM | Reply | Flag:
Rules!

If you're lying in the hospital you're not allowed to have your cell phone to call anyone and their phones are rediculously expensive... and without an internet connection to research... they've got you over a bedpost.

If you sign into a hospital, THEY decide IF/WHEN you can leave.

#43 | Posted by reitze at 2013-02-24 10:45 AM | Reply | Flag:

Well, we've all come a long way. At least no one keeps repeating over and over that we have the best health care system in the world anymore.

#44 | Posted by squinch at 2013-02-24 03:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

If you sign into a hospital, THEY decide IF/WHEN you can leave.

#43 | Posted by reitze at 2013-02-24 10:45 AM | Reply

Not necessarily---you can sign out AMA----Against Medical Advice---short of being a mental case, they've got to let you go unless the hospital would get some form of court injunction (which would be extremely rare).

#45 | Posted by matsop at 2013-02-24 03:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

This is very similar to what Ben Carson just suggested at the prayer breakfast... and the most people who support Obama's plan were in a fluster over it.

#46 | Posted by HeuristicGratis at 2013-02-25 09:35 AM | Reply | Flag:

If you sign into a hospital, THEY decide IF/WHEN you can leave. #43 | Posted by reitze at 2013-02-24 10:45 AM | Reply

Not necessarily---you can sign out AMA----Against Medical Advice---short of being a mental case... #45 | Posted by matsop

This is reitze you're talking to there. He's probably speaking from personal experience.

#47 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2013-02-25 09:47 AM | Reply | Flag:

This is reitze you're talking to there. He's probably speaking from personal experience.

#47 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2013-02-25 09:47 AM | Reply |

You know, Hag, that was pretty low. Unfortunately, the thought flitted past my mind for a nano-second and I had to slap myself to avoid connecting it with my fingers on my keyboard.

#48 | Posted by matsop at 2013-02-25 09:53 AM | Reply | Flag:

You know, Hag, that was pretty low. Unfortunately, the thought flitted past my mind for a nano-second and I had to slap myself to avoid connecting it with my fingers on my keyboard.
#48 | Posted by matsop

LOL. You pick peculiar times to show restraint. Eh... nobody's perfect.

#49 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2013-02-25 09:58 AM | Reply | Flag:

If you're lying in the hospital you're not allowed to have your cell phone to call anyone and their phones are rediculously expensive... and without an internet connection to research... they've got you over a bedpost.

If you sign into a hospital, THEY decide IF/WHEN you can leave.

#43 | Posted by reitze

I have never had my cell phone removed from me in a hospital unless I was being prepped for surgery. I have done plenty of research from a hospital bed and tons of online research in the waiting room.

However, the point stands that you are a a captive customer and shopping around is near impossible. I can research if what the doctor is telling me makes sense but I cannot shop around for a better price.

This makes the product of health care different from all other products and is just another reason we needed something like the ACA to address the problems in the system.

Unfortunately Republicans decided that the Affordable Care Act would be Obama's Waterloo and have done everything in their power to make it fail...and then they sit around and wonder why it is not working. Kind of the way they do with government in general.

Republicans claim that government doesn't work and then when they get into power they prove it.

#50 | Posted by donnerboy at 2013-02-25 01:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

Goldhill discovered that health care is unlike any other industry

A stunning observation. Unfortunately, Obamacare cements in place an already very broken system.

#51 | Posted by justanoversight at 2013-02-25 03:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sheesh...perhaps I should read the article before posting:

"Goldhill is unsparing in his criticism of the 2010 Affordable Care Act (ACA), aka Obamacare, which mandates universal health coverage: "The ACA's most obvious characteristic," he writes, "is its continuity with our existing system: a continued reliance on insurance as the funding mechanism for all care."

#52 | Posted by justanoversight at 2013-02-25 03:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

You're in favor of the government requiring you and everyone else to purchase insurance?

#10 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2013-02-23 10:52 PM

You keep mentioning this so I'm sure you are aware that the current law already requires everyone to purchase insurance.

#53 | Posted by T_Man at 2013-02-25 04:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

You keep mentioning this so I'm sure you are aware that the current law already requires everyone to purchase insurance.

#53 | Posted by T_Man

I am sure you are also aware of the irony that the mandate requiring everyone to purchase insurance was a Republican idea.

The mandate, requiring every American to purchase health insurance, appeared in a 1989 published proposal by Stuart M. Butler of the conservative Heritage Foundation called "Assuring Affordable Health Care for All Americans," which included a provision to "mandate all households to obtain adequate insurance."

The Heritage Foundation "substantially revised" its proposal four years later, according to a 1994 analysis by the Congressional Budget Office. But the idea of an individual health insurance mandate later appeared in two bills introduced by Republican lawmakers in 1993, according to the non-partisan research group ProCon.org. Among the supporters of the bills were senators Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, and Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, who today oppose the mandate under current law.

Read more: www.foxnews.com

#54 | Posted by donnerboy at 2013-02-25 05:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

#54 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY AT 2013-02-25 05:32 PM

Don't forget the important parts

In 2007, a bi-partisan Senate bill authored by Senators Bob Bennett, R-Utah, and Ron Wyden, D-Oregon, contained a mandate. In 2009, however, Republican senators declared such a provision "unconstitutional."

During the 2008 presidential campaign, Obama expressed opposition to a mandate requiring all Americans to buy health care insurance. In a Feb. 28, 2008, interview on the Ellen DeGeneres show, Obama sought to distinguish himself from then-candidate Hillary Clinton by saying, "Both of us want to provide health care to all Americans. There's a slight difference, and her plan is a good one. But, she mandates that everybody buy health care.

"She'd have the government force every individual to buy insurance and I don't have such a mandate because I don't think the problem is that people don't want health insurance, it's that they can't afford it," Obama said. "So, I focus more on lowering costs. This is a modest difference. But, it's one that she's tried to elevate, arguing that because I don't force people to buy health care that I'm not insuring everybody. Well, if things were that easy, I could mandate everybody to buy a house, and that would solve the problem of homelessness. It doesn't."

In 2010, Obama signed the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act that put into place an individual mandate.

Passed by Democrats, not Republicans

#55 | Posted by T_Man at 2013-02-25 08:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

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