Italy Tells Vatican to Pay Taxes

Saturday, February 18, 2012

The Pope faces a $789 million yearly tax bill after the Italian government ended several controversial property tax breaks enjoyed by the Holy See. The country's competition commissioner, Joaquin Almunia, said in 2010 that the church's exemption amounted to state aid in possible breach of EU law. "This is a victory for public pressure," said Mario Staderini, leader of the Italian Radicals party. "We've managed to break down -- a little bit -- the wall protecting the Church."

Posted by ExpsRedemption at 04:32 PM | 39 COMMENTS | permalink | Comment on This Entry |

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ExpsRedemption

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Interesting article. No problem here if Italy has no contradicting information in it's "constitution" or legal precedence.

#1 | Posted by ExpsRedemption at 2012-02-17 12:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

I thought Vatican City was a sovereign nation. Can Italy legally do this?

#2 | Posted by kanrei at 2012-02-17 12:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

How long till foreclosure?

#3 | Posted by 726 at 2012-02-17 12:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

#2 | Posted by kanrei at 2012-02-17 12:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

I guess that is the question at hand. Maybe they are a rented space with legal sovereignty?

#4 | Posted by ExpsRedemption at 2012-02-17 01:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

I thought Vatican City was a sovereign nation. Can Italy legally do this?

I don't think they are referring to the vatican per se, but probably the thousands of other church properties within Italy.

#5 | Posted by Jay at 2012-02-17 01:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

probably the thousands of other church properties within Italy.

That would explain it and make sense. Thanks.

#6 | Posted by kanrei at 2012-02-17 01:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

#5 | Posted by Jay at 2012-02-17 01:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

Good point. The money will just be coming from the Vatican probably. An Italian/Vatican war coming?

#7 | Posted by ExpsRedemption at 2012-02-17 01:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

The really interesting part of the article came at the very end:

... the prospects for another annus horribilis were underlined last week when a document emerged suggesting there was a plot to kill Pope Benedict XVI this year.

"It's now complete war inside the Vatican," said Robert Mickens, The Tablet's Rome correspondent, who has20 years' experience of reporting on the Vatican. "Things are falling apart."

The rancour has been blamed on manoeuvring surrounding the succession of Pope Benedict and the exceptional unpopularity of the current leadership.

What on earth is going on in the Vatican?

#8 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2012-02-17 01:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

Time to sell more indulgences!
For $19.95 (tax and transaction fee not included) you get one hour with a sin of your choice and the Vicar of Christ will promise to keep it out of Peter's book.
That is after all how they funded construction costs in the first place.

#9 | Posted by BluSky at 2012-02-17 01:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

It would be cheaper to let the mormons baptize you after you are dead.

#10 | Posted by ExpsRedemption at 2012-02-17 01:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

hmmm we have thousands of church properties in America.

Time for everyone to tighten their belts and give their fair share!

#11 | Posted by donnerboy at 2012-02-17 01:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

let the mormons baptize you after you are dead

Like Mitt's dead father-in-law?
gawker.com

No thanks. Should I one day be judged for my sins (and the ones placed upon me before I was even born by your god) I'm more than willing to accept the verdict. All my heroes should be in hell, so that's where I want to be anyway.

#12 | Posted by BluSky at 2012-02-17 01:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

#11 | Posted by donnerboy at 2012-02-17 01:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

Once the law is changed or their tax exempt status is revoked, sure.

Of course you would be taking more money from people who have supposedly been giving more than their fair share as man of the people in church are the supposed 99%.

#13 | Posted by ExpsRedemption at 2012-02-17 01:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

#12 | Posted by BluSky at 2012-02-17 01:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

Well, you can rest assured you won't be responsible for more than what you have done. Unfortunately that makes little different in regard to the hope of coming away unscathed for any person.

It is foolish for people to think Hell will be a party if it exists. It is a place of separation, despair and loneliness. I surmise that no matter how many people are there with you (general), you (general) will feel quite alone, being separated from the source of all things.

#14 | Posted by ExpsRedemption at 2012-02-17 01:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

Speaking of Hell, any Red Dwarf fans? There was an episode that dealt with sin and punishment where the guilty member of the crew escaped punishment because he felt to guilt and therefore in his mind was innocent while the crew member who was innocent felt guilt for things beyond his control and was punished for his perceived guilt.

#15 | Posted by kanrei at 2012-02-17 01:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

By the way, I'm not happy about that, but if that is how it is... that is how it is.

I don't think there will be much torture going on in Hell beside the self torture of an individual who finally realizes that they missed something that should have been so clear to them and yet still cannot accept it.

Many people ask, why will people get an eternal sentence for sins committed in a finite lifetime. I propose that they will most likely continue sinning once they arrive and thus infinitely increase their sentence.

#16 | Posted by ExpsRedemption at 2012-02-17 01:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

Given the choice between being alone and being trapped for eternity with the likes of you, Muhammad Atta, Jerry Falwell, and the god that oversaw the authorship Leviticus--that's an easy choice.

#17 | Posted by BluSky at 2012-02-17 01:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

Given the choice between being alone and being trapped for eternity with the likes of you, Muhammad Atta, Jerry Falwell, and the god that oversaw the authorship Leviticus--that's an easy choice.

Posted by BluSky at 2012-02-17 01:49 PM

Always been my view: if Hell is eternal suffering, then I will be in Heaven and stuck with the religiously devout.

#18 | Posted by kanrei at 2012-02-17 01:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

#17 | Posted by BluSky at 2012-02-17 01:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

There is no guarantee that any of those human beings will be there. Leviticus also has a different tone than you might be perceiving.

Either way, if you can (probably not) let me know if you feel the same way if I don't end up in the same spot at you.

If you don't, I won't say I told you so.

#19 | Posted by ExpsRedemption at 2012-02-17 01:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

#18 | Posted by kanrei at 2012-02-17 01:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

So long as your potentially skewed view of the "religiously devout" is true, that might be true. Seeing as the skewed view is skewed that probably is not true.

#20 | Posted by ExpsRedemption at 2012-02-17 01:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

If they don't let your dog in don't go! It's a trick.

Watch The Twilight Zone - Season 3, Episode 19 - The Hunt

#21 | Posted by donnerboy at 2012-02-17 05:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

Of course you would be taking more money from people who have supposedly been giving more than their fair share as man of the people in church are the supposed 99%.

#13 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

Greedy Televangelists like Oral Roberts can afford to pay taxes.

#22 | Posted by donnerboy at 2012-02-17 05:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

Italian/Vatican war coming?
#7 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

Quick !!....hide the children.!!

But seriously, we should end the tax exemption for churches also.
Time for them to do their share to help the country....it's the patriotic thing to do.

#23 | Posted by skizziks at 2012-02-18 06:38 AM | Reply | Flag:

Always been my view: if Hell is eternal suffering, then I will be in Heaven and stuck with the religiously devout.
#18 | Posted by kanrei

.......you'll be with Vern, KBM, Glasshouse, Osama bin Laden, Mullah Omar, the Westboro Church congregation............gee Kanrei.....you might as well be in hell............

#24 | Posted by skizziks at 2012-02-18 06:45 AM | Reply | Flag:

#11 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY AT 2012-02-17 01:32 PM

As long as ALL charities have to pay.

#25 | Posted by glasshouse at 2012-02-18 11:20 AM | Reply | Flag:

They can't tax the Vatican itself. It's a sovereign state. But this is just a rehash of when the controversy over the Papal States arose more than a century ago. It comes up once in a while then dies down.

#26 | Posted by Diablo at 2012-02-18 11:38 AM | Reply | Flag:

"It is foolish for people to think Hell will be a party if it exists. It is a place of separation, despair and loneliness. I surmise that no matter how many people are there with you (general), you (general) will feel quite alone, being separated from the source of all things."

Surmising, supposing and a pinch of jesus is the extent of your logic.
Not like anyone would think you'd see it any other way. Although "if it exists" does express some doubt. Maybe you are growing up. Good for you.

#27 | Posted by soulfly at 2012-02-18 12:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

#16 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

That brings an weird thought.

Most sin is enjoyment (least the ones I commit :)). So if my "punishment" is continuation of the same for eternity, then that sounds more like heaven.

Conversely, if you've abstained from sin and led (again to me at least) a somewhat dull life, then your "reward" is continuation of the same for eternity, then that sounds more like hell.

I must be in a weird mood :)

#28 | Posted by Lohocla at 2012-02-18 01:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

Another saturday, another display of how to be a total loser courtesy of expressedmisery.

#29 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2012-02-18 05:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

With the Schweizergarde to protect them the Vatican will have no fear of the Italian govt or its carabinnieri ;-)

#30 | Posted by MSgt at 2012-02-18 06:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sorry Diablo, it's about non-Vatican property:

"The Vatican avoids Ici tax on about 100,000 properties, classed as non-commercial, including 8,779 schools, 26,300 ecclesiastical structures and 4,714 hospitals and clinics.
Since 2005 church-run organisations have not been considered ordinary commercial structures and have been exempt. According to Corriere della Sera newspaper, tax authorities will judge how much of a property is used purely for religious purposes and tax it accordingly. Thus a church will remain exempt. But a hostel with a chapel would have to make contributions."

Reading is fundamental, even for fundamentalists.

#31 | Posted by northguy3 at 2012-02-18 07:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

"As long as ALL charities have to pay."

When did fingering little boys and bilking the superstitious become a "charity"?

#32 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2012-02-18 08:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

Do all the lay people in Italy pay their taxes?
Organized Christianity and Juduaism are under attack all over the world.
The West seems to lay off the Muslims though.

#33 | Posted by Donald at 2012-02-18 09:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

If they don't let your dog in don't go! It's a trick.

Watch The Twilight Zone - Season 3, Episode 19 - The Hunt

#21 | Posted by donnerboy

We have a friend who was in a horrific car crash and died at one point in surgery.

He was in a coma and they were going to pull the plug when he woke up.

He told us later that he saw the light--saw his Dad who had been dead for years--AND saw his favorite dog when he was 12 years old.

All of them in Heaven--even the dog.

#34 | Posted by MURPHY at 2012-02-18 10:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

#14 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

Is this Hell you imagine shared by other life forms besides Humans? With such a large Universe, they must be other sinners out there.

There must be aliens in Hell too, no?

#35 | Posted by BloodSacrafice at 2012-02-19 08:18 AM | Reply | Flag:

Non-profit organizations still have to pay property tax in the US, don't they?

On a separate note, I think property tax is immoral and poorly conceived. Why should one have to pay a tax that is unrelated to your income or financial transactions. Property tax is also very high in many places. Besides, taxes related to property value are ridiculous. Property values have been known in recent years to fluctuate up and down much more than the economy at large, either force people out of their homes, or leaving the locality with a sudden drop in revenue. I would rather they just raised some other taxes to compensate.

#36 | Posted by LEgregius at 2012-02-19 08:53 AM | Reply | Flag:

All of them in Heaven--even the dog.

#34 | Posted by MURPHY at 2012-02-18 10:47 PM | Reply | Flag: Total Bullshit

Any christian will tell you a dog has no soul. So how can it get to heaven? A "brain trauma", "coma" and "shock".Then the guy goes to heaven and comes back, "Well! that settles it". God is real for murph.

#37 | Posted by soulfly at 2012-02-19 11:03 AM | Reply | Flag:

It is foolish for people to think Hell will be a party if it exists. It is a place of separation, despair and loneliness.

Sounds like the GOP primaries. Now that is an eternity to avoid.

#38 | Posted by northguy3 at 2012-02-19 09:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

Exps, serious question...

The devil and his followers were cast out of heaven for disagreeing with god. That seems to suggest that a trip to heaven is not a one way street. If it isn't, then what are the chances that you will never have doubts about god and be cast out. Seems like over a time period of infinity that everyone will eventually end up in hell.

#39 | Posted by dibblda at 2012-02-20 12:37 AM | Reply | Flag: