it would be easier to believe there was a god if he either made me a believer or there was some actual proof.

Anyways..when I was introduced to God, ..........

you should have asked for her phone number or at least gotten her card.

"If God showed up tomorrow in all of God's splendor, then I'd accept the idea of God..."

Really? I wouldn't accept that as given for one instant. In the first place, God would have to match your personal idea of splendor. Them you'd have to convince yourself God wasn't some hyper-advanced space alien. The worth of the event would deteriorate in the minds of many starting just there.

#45 | Posted by Zed

If god is powerful enough he can manifest himself in such a way as to make me believe.

well than I guess god is not so powerful. sad I guess

"God cannot...."

nuff said

skiz, god is female thinks that only females can love unconditionally, therefore god is female

in other words he is certifiably insane.

Which choice is better, smoking cigars and cigarettes will possibly give you lung cancer and a lifetime of emphazema, or not smoking and keeping more healthy lungs?
Which choice do many people make all the time?

hmmmm I believe we can agree that one cannot choose their DNA, which makes them susceptible to certain addictions.

One is raised in a house where the parents smoke, certainly not the child's choice.

Child is exposed to nicotine a highly addictive chemical.

Yep all about free will

Jesus was an example..up until that point God was a mean, judgmental father who only talked to his children when he was mad or wanted something.. Jesus introduced people to another idea of God.. a forgiving parent capable of unconditional love.. sort of like.. a mother instead of a father

And i'm pretty sure that Jesus never told anybody to worship him..

Posted by Godisfemale at 2010-02-01 11:42 AM | Reply

Pretty clear you are saying god is a mother (female) because of this "new" concept of god being a forgiving parent capable of unconditional love"

see the logic construct is

A=B but Not C therefore A does not = C

BTW you are insane

Yet another assumption.. because I'm arguing that God is female.. I must be female.. well I am not female

I'm a male and when God introduced herself to me, she was most certainly female.. it freaked me out at first.. I was raised a Roman Catholic believing in God as a "Him" and sure enough.. God is a "Her"

If you consider the fact that we get our first sense of unconditional love (whether for good or for bad) from our mother.. seeing our relationship with God as comparable to our relationship with our mother makes sense

Posted by Godisfemale

TH:You see things

from you

My theory is that most of our personal issues trace back to our relationship (or lack thereof) with our mother ..as does our belief (or lack thereof) in God

Posted by Godisfemale

TH:you project

And I never used that to justify the idea that God is female..

AND

Jesus introduced people to another idea of God.. a forgiving parent capable of unconditional love.. sort of like.. a mother instead of a father

Sorry you are insane

not well played, it is simple recitation of your point. I am sorry if you are not clear in your thinking.

dude to say that "Jesus introduced people to another idea of God.. a forgiving parent capable of unconditional love.. sort of like.. a mother instead of a father"

Therefore, according to your logic, a father is not a forgiving parent capable of unconditional love. Because without that logic, the rest of your statement makes no sense.

Either this supposed new intepretation of god is irrelevant to the gender of god (therefore not supporting your premise that god is female because a father can be forgiving and love unconditionally) or only mothers forgive and love unconditionally.

You cant have it both ways.

It is not that he cannot do it, but rather that he cannot do it and still be just or loving

so there is something go can't do.

thanks for playing.

god can't do

BTW there is nothing just and loving about creating something that will burn in hell for eternity.

AH SHIT here we go with the bible quotes

Let us read from Leviticus

20:10 The man who commits adultery with another man's wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death.'

You weren't created for Hell.

no but the omnipotent god certainly knew who would go to hell and who wouldnt

at the very least by unleashing satan he had to know that at least a few of his creations would end up in hell

sorry your god is certainly not just and loving

God does stay in accord with his own laws. People who don't believe like to make up any argument they can to make it so that God has less power, or something he "can't" do.

So god COULD have made me a believer and remained loving and just yet chose not to.

oh wait, no he couldnt have because to remain just and loving he had to allow me free will.

but god can do anything, but not that, cause he chooses how things are going to be, he made the law after all

oh yeah, send money.

"BTW there is nothing just and loving about creating something that will burn in hell for eternity."
Unless God is not responsible for that and humans are.

#78 | Posted by Diablo

god created the heaven and the earth, god created hell and god created me. Yet he aint responsible.

god must be a republican.

Just because you think you know what a word means doe snot make that the true meaning . You are looking solely at the subjective.

#82 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

HAHAHAHA, sounds like the perfect reason to be an athiest.

nope what I hate is the inconsistency.

If he does it, he does not become just and loving, but he can do it, it is possible, it simply does not serve a purpose.

he can do it (earlier you said he couldnt)

he can do it, yet he chooses not to.

so he chooses that people he created burn in hell for all eternity. and when he created those people he either knew exactly who (consitent with omnipotence and exclusive of free will) or a certain percentage (more consistent with free will yet not so omnipotent) would burn in hell for all eternity.

that makes him unjust and unloving.

For you it does, because it doesn't fit with how you want to see things.

well all I want is for stuff to follow logically. Wish god made me differently so I didnt have to burn in hell for all eternity. Or are you saying I should insincerely say I believe something?

Are you even willing to change your position? Do you even want to understand, or are you simply trying to combat anything that is said, without looking at it past a blink?

#86 | Posted by ExpsRedemption at

why should I I dont believe. Or should I bear false witness and lie and say I believe?

oh btw I have tried christianity, but then I grew up.

ure you do.

You want just and loving, but then complain when he rebukes you out of love for you and then enacts justice when you fail to respond to the loving reminder to change.

you sound real consistent.

You want just and loving as long as it is not just or loving.

#88 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

does god want me to lie and say I believe?

If yes, what does that say about him?

if no, why did he create me to burn in hell for all eternity. I cannot MAKE myself belief something.

You are trying to create a circle game.

TH: I didnt create that game, I am explaining it.

I always said that he can do that objectively, however in the subjective sense of that actions being taken, it cannot be done and maintain justice or love.

TH: god can do anything he wants. he chooses to allow either an individual or a certain percentage of HIS creation to burn in hell for all eternity. that type of divinity should not be worshipped.

You are unwilling to take attributes in context of attributes. He is enacting love in warning you and enacting justice in putting the consequences to you when you do not listen just because you don't like being corrected. You are the one that wants consistency.

TH: he would have shown more love by not creating me to burn inhell for all eternity.

You just want love, face it. You don't understand what justice is, you don't understand what love is, and you just don't want to be held responsible for your own actions it seems.

#92 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

TH: dont tell me what I want. and I know what justice is. god is the one who is not held accountable for his actions.

Trying to get to a true understanding is not the same as believing. Due to your inability to separate the two, you will never be able to attain either.

You cannot "try" Christianity. It would seem you obviously had no grasp of what it was, and still don't

#94 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

hahahaha, so EITHER I accept what i cannot accept or I burn in hell for all eternity.

thanks god

So here i am living my life. I would love to believe in this whole christianity thing to assure my place in the heavens for all eternity.

Problem is I can't. I physically am unable to believe.

I can lie and SAY I believe. I can try and believe, I have tried.

Something in my DNA, something in my experience prevents me from believing. The thing that makes choices in my head does not allow me to commit to believing.

Therefore I must burn in hell for all eternity.

yet god is loving and just.

gain, you try to detract any responsibility from yourself.

You can't believe if you are unwilling to listen, or attempt to understand. You cannot believe if you are unwilling to listen to any correction, you cannot believe if you think you are always right. You are creating the stopping point, not God.

He does not create you to burn in Hell for all eternity. You know the consequences. You could try to understand it rather than lashing out when someone is trying to help you understand something better.

Since you don't do these things, what does it say about you?

#97 | Posted by ExpsRedemption at

I am listening, I am reading, i have knowledge, I have prejudices, I have experience, I have history, I have education, I have my own DNA I have all these things. I cannot make myself open to believing. I am incapable. If I were capable I would believe.

THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN SAY OR DO THAT CAN CHANGE WHO I AM. same goes the other way.

I do not know how you expect to understand anything when you over simplify any points to absurdity, and seem to be responding emotionally due to your recognizing that it may be your fault and not the fault of another.

#100 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

than perhaps you can explain how a human being can will himself to believe something that he does not sincerely believe in.

I hear what you are saying, I read all the arguements, I have read the bible. It just does not strike me as feasible or realistic.

Just believe?

of course like a typical religous person you blame me, but I am what I am, I cannot choose other than what I am. I cannot make myself believe something.

I can lie, yes I can do that.

You are in a conundrum for sure. If you don't think God exists or this God, then don't worry about it, you can't burn in Hell. Based on your assertions it seems that you are somewhat concerned about this.

TH: I dont worry about it but I enjoy debating it.

From what I see in your posts, you make no effort to understand what individuals are saying, and thus just simplify their arguments to absurdity creating a false and more limited understanding of the situation. Then you base your concepts, ideas and understandings on those false constructs in your mind.

TH: F U. YOUR ARGUMENTS LACK LOGIC AND INTERNAL CONSISTENCY. Your response is that I oversimplify etc, but without your "faith" you know belief in something without proof your arguements fail completely. yet I am to be accused of basing my concepts on false constructs.

You do that, no one else doe sit for you.
Blame your DNA, blame God, blame republicans, but don't blame yourself even though you are the one that is aware that your DNA may predispose you. If someone has the DNA that makes them likely to be an alcoholic, they don't always become alcoholics. When you know the factors you can change the situation.

#102 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

TH: I would be happy to blame myself. I hereby blame myself for not believing in the christian god. does that make you happy. I will burn in hell for not believing in something and it will be my fault.

only problem is I am incapable of choosing other than what I choose. I am incapable of believing. I could SAY I believe. I can be open to believing, but without changing who I am I cannot believe.

That is a false construct, as just because you are capable of something, does not mean you will do it. You are capable now, however, you have not believed.

You are making mockery of any point rather than understanding it. Unless of course you are just showing off for people. Again, this probably has something to do with you being unable to do what you want to do as opposed to what others are making you do.

#104 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

Bullshit, I will not accept responsibility for not believing something unbelievable. I refuse to believe that 1+1=3. If god wanted me to believe 1+1=3 he should have either made it logically clear that 1+1=3 OR made me such that I can believe 1+1=3.

I am mocking? bullshit you are whining. I am calling you on the bullshit you spout and you cannot even come close to a logical and cogent argument

#103 | Posted by truthhurts at 2010-02-08 11:59 AM | Reply | Flag:

Just take a breath, stop responding emotionally and think for a second. It takes time to understand things, more than a minute or two. If you want to truly understand what is going on in history, you have to study it for many, many, many, years as with any profession, or anything you will "believe".

TH: hahaha, this debate is the most logical I have had on the subject in quite a while.

You think that just because you were involved with someone that you therefor understand all there is to do with it? That is wrong, and it restricts you from looking at things.

If you are going to understand anything you have to be able to look past your preconceived ideas. You have to look at the other perspectives, you have to look at a broader scope. I went through this, I have who went through this. If you have understood something falsely in the first place, it will turn you off to even the truth concerning that subject.

You must take time. I am not telling you to lie about something, I am not trying to get you to believe here, I am simply telling you where you are understanding concepts of Christianity wrong, whether you believe in it or not.

Whether it is true or not, there are still things that are true and false in terms of understanding it.

#107 | Posted by ExpsRedemption at

TH: we have all the time in the world. I aint going anywhere. god will kill me when he so chooses. Hope he doesnt kill me the day before I might believe in him. NOW THAT would be cruel.

Truth, you are continuing to miss the point. I am not getting you to blame yourself, but rather take responsibility. If you are always looking at everyone else being the problem you will never understand why anything happened.

You must have taken 30 seconds to think about almost anything that I wrote, and yet you say you read it, understand it, and thought about it? I don't think so.

You try to point out flaws and mistakes before you try to get what is actually being stated. Ask questions in a civil fashion rather than a mocking fashion, Speak more so to understand the persons point rather than to make you own point.

I understand what you are saying, but your points are very much so wrong. In regard to both myself and godisfemale. You have reactionary responses, rather than thought out and rational responses.

#110 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

sorry dude you are the one with the inconsistencies in your argument. I have pointed them out and your response seems to be that I just dont get it, that I oversimplify, that I miss the point, that i am responding too quickly etc etc etc.

of course these things apply to you.

There is NO logic that accepts an omnipotent god and free will.

There is no logic that accepts a loving and just god and the concept of hell.

A human being cannot will himself to believe something. belief is the fruit of genetics and environment. yes a person's belief can change upon experiencing more things, but even that capacity for change is based on genetics and experience.

There is no Hell.. You're a good person and dont find God in your lifetime; She gives you another chance.. and another.. Her patience is as infinite as Her love.. She gives you an immortal soul and then throws away a good child because you didnt do precisely what She wants? That wouldnt make sense

Why dont good, smart people believe in the God of the bible or in Jesus? Because it doesnt make sense to them and they dont grasp the concept of an infinite being.

Heck.. I believe in God but the idea that Jesus as her son would be sent down to earth back then doesnt make sense to me. Yeah.. God sent our savior to Bronze age Judea and then said "doh!" when the Romans and Jews had him killed.. cmon!

#112 | Posted by Godisfemale

well isn't that convenient

I imagine you meant to say 1+1+1=3. You must be talking about the Trinity? Another concept that must have a lot of prerequisite information in order to be dealt with, however you are unwilling to take the time.

You have proved thus in this conversation.

#113 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

noooooo what I am saying is that religon is ILLOGICAL. if god wanted me to believe, he should have either made it logical OR made me to believe illogically.

You're a good person and dont find God in your lifetime; She gives you another chance.. and another.. Her patience is as infinite as Her love.. She gives you an immortal soul and then throws away a good child because you didnt do precisely what She wants? That wouldnt make sense

so hitler got another chance? mighty nice of her.

I do believe Hitler is in Heaven as I believe there is no other place for a soul to go. I believe Hitler acted according to what G-d placed him here to do. The fact that we still talk about him so many years after his death and after so many other honestly evil people have come and gone shows the value of Hitler as example; and never underestimate the value of extreme examples.

#119 | Posted by kanrei

so it matters not what we do here on earth? GOOD!

now that would be weird, hitler hanging out with some of the jews he killed. talk about awkward.

He was far from the only Adolf or Hitler, but his actions overshadow anything good that can be done by an Adolf. That is his punishment.

6 million dead jews, 40 or 50 million dead world wide

vs

people not liking hte name hitler

kharma is a bitch.

then please enlighten me because I am fascinated to hear how hitler is in heaven and his punishment was that people think the name adolf hitler is bad.

wow fascinating. I am sure hitler is crying tears of shame for that!

Assuming that Hitler killed himself as the story goes; it would be a logical leap even TH couldnt make to suggest that he was repentant in the end.

It's laughable to think that we can somehow trick God by being sorry at the very end like She didnt know what was in our heart our whole life.

It's just us and God. No middlemen, no excuses and certainly no hiding

#133 | Posted by Godisfemale

im just curious, how could old adolf have made a free choice, i believe the theory is that he had gone insane and was heavily medicated with mind altering drugs. how could he make a choice in that situation?

didnt say that (though that may be the case), at the end I think it arguable that he was insane and certainly using serious mind altering drugs. if you take away his free will can he be held accountable as he didnt have the opporunity to repent for h is actions.

nothing just happens, all part of god's plan, let his will be done etc.

therefore, ipso factso god is a sadistic sob.

Also spoke, yes, Pat Robertson is partly right. Bad things bring more gad things. The world becomes in turmoil because of what is called "sin." However it was not an immediately special judgment as the natural course of the earth has disasters mixed in with it, it is part of the natural cycle at this point, to us at least.

He only caused it based on making it a consequence of the origin of "sin". He did not immediately cause it for judgment on Haiti, as far as we know.

#167 | Posted by ExpsRedemption at

so babies are just getting what they deserve because of all the sin in the world.

does god not accept any responsibility for anything that happens?

god created the world
god created sin
god created the devil
god created temptation
god created people
god created free will
god created his (or her) plan

god is not responsible for the bad things that occur.

why are religious people so afraid of calling god out on his bullshit.

refering to GIF and exps

Truth, I think Kan attested to the same fact that I did against you, that you "have a very narrow field of comprehension."

Also a one track mind if I might add.

At the least, this is how you make yourself appear. They can do gene therapy now, you can get that fixed.

#171 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

blah blah blah blah

bullshit

now you are saying I can alter my genes to make me believe in god?

wow what a scary world god has made

Also spoke, yes, Pat Robertson is partly right. Bad things bring more gad things. The world becomes in turmoil because of what is called "sin." However it was not an immediately special judgment as the natural course of the earth has disasters mixed in with it, it is part of the natural cycle at this point, to us at least.

He only caused it based on making it a consequence of the origin of "sin". He did not immediately cause it for judgment on Haiti, as far as we know.

#167 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

BTW this is amoungst the most disgusting things I have read on the DR, ok hyperbole aside, this is pretty disturbing.

in all the flowery language this says mankind brought on the haitian earthquake through its sinning. that kind of thinking is just plain bizarre

Sin is missing the mark. It is not created, it is conducted. If you miss the mark, you sin. Most people do not understand what "sin" really is.

It is a concept, there really is no good and evil, there is the choice of God or not God. Anything that is not God would be sin in a way.

again bullshit
god is all things is he-she not? isnt every "choice" choosing god? if it is god's plan than it is to choose god, correct? Hitler fulfilled god's plan for him, therfore he chose go, correct?

anything that is not god does not exist.

Truth has a false concept of sin and righteousness, good and evil, etc. It is the small scope of understanding that Truth is willing to conduct that is limiting the ability to think about such things.

Emotional responses.

#181 | Posted by ExpsRedemption at

dude you make me laugh.

i am only spouting your beliefs back at you showing you your own inconsistencies.

You would be incorrect Truth.
Check your narrow perspective at the door and try to understand somethings here.

#184 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

i guess I just need that gene therapy you suggested. Well I suppose if i were someone else i would believe.

Truth, that is because you do not want to understand what it means.

You cant look past your own selfish subjective concepts. You are only concerned about yourself and your immediate standing.

You are responsible. You do not have to worry about such things if you make the right choices, as everything will be covered for you. You might still go through difficulties, however you will know that things after that will be all good, without fear of conseque3nce.

You are stuck in the immediate context in all things it seems.

#182 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

I caused the Haitian earthquake? I am responsible for it? Cause that is what you seem to be saying.

I don't believe that you are, because you do not even understand the "beliefs" that you are showing the inconsistencies of. You think you know, and you are showing the inconsistencies of the things that you think you understand, however you are only showing that your own mental constructs or inconsistent, as would be expected.

You need to learn to think outside of your own subjective experience. However it seems as though it is all about the now. You refuse to look at things objectively.

#187 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

hahaha, you need to create this elaborate construct to bridge the illogic of ominipotency and free will, god, love and hell and all you have to offer is that I dont understand it. sorry if god were as you say, the concept would actually make sense without having to leave your brain at the door.

I've met God and everything I know about Her; She told me.

#191 | Posted by Godisfemale

and how do you know that just wasnt the voices in your head?

kan look at exps 167 post and than reread my 190 post.

he is the one saying Haiti is because humans are sinners.

how do you know that just wasnt the voices in your head?

Posted by truthhurts

Who's to say the voices in our heads isn't G-d?

#198 | Posted by kanrei

medicine shouldnt be able to cure god

He is saying that the more bad we put into this world, the more bad we can expect from it.

#200 | Posted by kanrei

yet god is not sadistic? how many infants dies in Haiti-they got what they deserve?

You speak of logic and yet seek it not.

#206 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

I ask for nothing more from believers and all I get is just believe. If i dont I lets see

a. oversimplify
b. am to emotional
c. being subjective
d. simply dont understand
etc

of course I am arguing with someone who thinks they talk with god (and god answers them).

now who should I believe

kan

do you accept the assertion that bad things happen in this world because of sin? that sin begets bad things?

if so please answer my question regarding haitian babies.

if not than I believe I have misrepresented exp's position.

I googled looking 1/10th second into the future and got this result so........

Gazing into college football's crystal ball and predicting the ...Jan 22, 2010 ... So much can change in 10 years. The past decade brought us instant ... Here's a look at what might transpire in college football over the next decade: ... long to turn the Mustangs back into winners, improving from 1-11 in 2008 ... You might feel old when hearing the names of potential future stars: ...
sports.espn.go.com/ncf/
columns/story?
columnist=schlabach... - Cached

The problem is Truth that you are making judgments in concern to things that you do not understand. I am not telling you to believe, so you misunderstood that right off the bat.

TH: when did i say you were telling me to believe. I assert that xtians believe that if you dont believe you burn in hell for eternity. If that is wrong, please show me.

I am telling you to actually try and understand what a person is saying, and by not being able to pick that up and simplifying my statements to "just believe" you have proved that you are only simplifying what people are saying.

You got the Haiti thing wrong, you were told by Kan that you have a narrow view of comprehension, others have attested to your habits in here.

TH: ahhhhh the repeat of the blah blah blah.

And again, you oversimplify it away.

#219 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

TH: do you think that the haitians deserved what they got because the human race sinned? or failed to be god like? do you think humans deserve to be crushed by falling concrete? do you not hold god responsible for the pain inflicted?

#218

You do have a narrow view of comprehension

www.msnbc.msn.com

Second option to click on that came up upon the Google search. Maybe you oversimplified your search.

#220 | Posted by ExpsRedemption at

actually they are looking at the past because what they observe already happened, please try again.

not quite sure how the time delay between your brain and the real world applies to the existence of god.

suppose that is something I have to take on faith.

Goat, it would be limited to understand can and can't simply from our perspective without looking at it further.

this is something that is dependent on God, because God exists, the option of not God also exists, therefore two sides.

God is of course restricted by his own character out of integrity for that character and consistency of that character.

When people say that "God can't" they are not fully understanding what it means in terms of the situation. I don't know why people say that God can do everything. All powerful does not mean God has no restrictions. It is an oversimplification to think that because you show God "can't" do anything that you are proving some wonderful point.

#233 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

dude you sure use alot of words to saying nothing.
you sure you aint related to Zed?

dude I can actually get behind what you are saying in 236! That is the athiest's creed. why wait we are all in this together live for today, etc.

It was a false correlation by GIF to her comments regarding seeing "her" however it does prove that you have a narrow view of comprehension, as you oversimplified your search and were unable to find anything worth while, when it is in fact very easy to find.

TH: dude I was making a joke. I was fully aware of the 1/10th second thing. IIRC GIF was attempting to make some sort of point vis a vis god about it.

Then, when you could not find it, you decided to make a mockery about it, then lie that it had anything to do with seeing anything in terms of future. Now you say, eh, so what, what does it have to do with anything.

You don't want to understand.

#237 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

TH: understand? yes believe without proof? no

live for today

Is actually a very Jesus-like thing to say.

Or the, "Grassroots", either one.

#241 | Posted by Corky

HOW DARE YOU!

believe without proof? no

Proof denies the reason to believe. Once something is proven, you know it. Belief is needed where proof cannot reach.

#242 | Posted by kanrei at

you appear to be confusing belief and faith

faith is belief that is not based on proof

belief is a conviction or opinion

of course as in most things words have meanings and the art of rhetoric is important in debating.

belief - 5 dictionary results
Belief
be⋅lief  /bɪˈlif/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [bi-leef] Show IPA
noun 1. something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.
2. confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.
3. confidence; faith; trust: a child's belief in his parents.
4. a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith: the Christian belief.

faith - 8 dictionary results
faith  /feɪθ/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [feyth] Show IPA
noun 1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3. belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5. a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
6. the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.: Failure to appear would be breaking faith.
7. the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.: He was the only one who proved his faith during our recent troubles.
8. Christian Theology. the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved.

soooooo exp I believe I have proven that I am correct. Therefore I BELIEVE I am correct. You have faith that I am incorrect.

For faith to be real, there must be an object of faith and a reason for faith in that object.

#257 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

an object and reason are not the same thing

no no no

belief is an opinion or conviction

faith is belief without proof

you can be confident in a belief without it being a faith.

My belief in gravity is not a faith.

No I believe in gravity. I have the conviction, I am under the opinion that gravity works and will work.

I know that it will work when you throw me in the air and that knowledge is based on the fact that every time you thrown me in the air it works.

I believe the sun will rise tom because the proof is there that it has always risen, it is a conviction based on proof.

I dont need faith in gravity I have knowledge of gravity. Knowledge allows me to not be afraid.

in fact if all I had was faith that gravity would work THAN I would truly be afraid, because that BY DEFINITION would be a conviction or opinion based on nothing.

wrong, my belief (my conviction or opinion) is based on the fact that the sun rose today, rose yesterday, the earth continues to spin on its access. those are all facts ie proof.

Faith-a belief held without proof.

again we are talking past each other, of course since my terms are defined I BELIEVE I am correct.

You do not have knowledge that gravity will work every single time. You have faith it will work every single time, but you do not know. You have faith based on the belief you started with of gravity always working being proven more and more true as time goes on.

simple not true

I hold a belief based on proof. therefore that is BY DEFINITION not faith.

I can tell you how to SEE that God is there

PLEASE do so.

proof  /pruf/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [proof] Show IPA
noun 1. evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true, or to produce belief in its truth.
2. anything serving as such evidence: What proof do you have?
3. the act of testing or making trial of anything; test; trial: to put a thing to the proof.

here is the definition of proof.
i believe that sufficient proof exists to establish that the sun WILL rise tommorow

there was only 4

were only 4 that is

knowl⋅edge  /ˈnɒlɪdʒ/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [nol-ij] Show IPA
noun 1. acquaintance with facts, truths, or principles, as from study or investigation; general erudition: knowledge of many things.
2. familiarity or conversance, as with a particular subject or branch of learning: A knowledge of accounting was necessary for the job.
3. acquaintance or familiarity gained by sight, experience, or report: a knowledge of human nature.
4. the fact or state of knowing; the perception of fact or truth; clear and certain mental apprehension.
5. awareness, as of a fact or circumstance: He had knowledge of her good fortune.
6. something that is or may be known; information: He sought knowledge of her activities.
7. the body of truths or facts accumulated in the course of time.
8. the sum of what is known: Knowledge of the true situation is limited.
9. Archaic. sexual intercourse.

yes I have knowledge of gravity. do I (we) know all there is to know about gravity? no. Science is the pursuit of understanding the unknown. Religon is (IMO) giving up on the pursuit and asigning god as the unknown.

It was on the moon so it was slower.

I couldnt help myself I was drawn to her.

She was quite magnetic

300!

Im a sucker for things that happen every single time I do something

no you're mad because you think god talks to you.

BTW did you ever tell us how to see god? You promised you would

i swear to god if zed ever expressed a clear and definitive point I think my head would explode

I JUST FIGURED IT OUT

ZED IS REUBEN FROM ICARLY!!!!!!!!

Ruben said...
"It's like you were born sideways, over the moon, with two scoops." to sam

"There's my raspberry soccerball!" to sam

"You don't need bubble wrap to know when its chowder time" to sam

Wow, you can make a dog bark faster than a fish can climb a tree.

Ya might as well tie a knot around two kangaroos, know what I'm saying?

You don't need bubble-wrap to know when it's chowder time.

I have very muy confidence in reuben er I mean zed

YEAH

cause you dont need bubble wrap to know when its chowder time.

dude that's my rasberry soccerball

You might as well tie a knot around two kangaroos, know what I mean?

Wow, you can make a dog bark faster than a fish can climb a tree.

Behind the deep cylinder prevails a stationary romantic