I agree with rightisright on this one. If the way things used to be still applied, it would not be an issue who you own a home with, who your attorney in fact is, all of that. My problem is not who someone binds themself to, but this constant broadcasting of "gay". The judgemental attitude of the past has gone, but the resistance that the majority of American people have to recognition of homosexual behavior has only been a knee jerk reaction. There are moral absolutes, and homosexuality has always been, according to every religion and every culture, immoral. If the libs would stop trying to CODIFY everything, they would get what they want.

You've got a long way to go as long as the burden of decisions rests with the states...""

ok LFT, but who makes the decisions at the state level? politicians closer and more accountable to voters. the African American and Gays analogy doesnt work because there is no ethnic or racial segregation here. They are not placed in a lower category. your comparing an ethnic standard with a moral one.

as far as Larry Craig, what he does is totally wrong, but parading effeminacy for all the world to see is infinitely more damaging to our reputation. Embracing a decadent lifestyle is going to weaken this country to the point where we will fall away from the lead and it will put us at the mercy of uhmm China and Russia, two countries with deplorable records of human rights, and want to see us fail because we are the only thing standing between them and domination.

You can have your fucking word. Give me the security and protection I'd like to have in MY home, those SAME protections you enjoy with your family.

#53 | Posted by greeneyedguy at 2010-01-31 10:39 AM

You have that now. But everytime a bunch of activists bring this issue up it does just the opposite. What so many people fail to realize is that this civil union/gay marriage fiasco is totally instigated by LAWYERS who get paid to litigate it.

Learn to appreciate the fact that this country does not oppress you in any way shape or form. Live in peace and be happy with the rights that you enjoy.

Just not the same right that you enjoy. I'll bet that if you were black and living about 60 years back you too would be striving for equal rights - including marriage.

#100 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2010-01-31 11:09 PM

Once again stealing the rightful legacy of the Black Man's struggle for equality. A totally disgusting and false analogy. There is no comparison. The worst that gay men can complain about is being targeted for soliciting teenage boys in public restrooms. Ill stop short of attacking the character of people who feel its ok to anally penetrate another man, and have completely abrogated their duty as MEN to carry on their family name and work truly for the benefit of a moral and decent culture. This country and it's prosperity was built by men who strove to provide their children with freedom, not the liberty to cast decency and hard work aside to feed their baser instincts at carnal satisfaction.

One of the common mistakes is equating homosexuality with anal sex. The two are far from synonymous. As mentioned above, anal sex is hardly limited to homosexuals, and there are plenty of homosexuals who don't care for the practice."

Im not simply comparing it to butt sex, but the entire spectrum, men dressing effeminately, acting like women, the HUGE culture of prostitution, drugs, and casual sex. The gay community leads the country in deadly infections such as HIV. Public acknowledgement, and worse promotion, damns many men and women to a lifetime of spiritual and emotional struggle. No matter which way you slice it, its a vice.

There is a connection to a pervasive lifestyle when you aren't able to live your life free from worry and persecution.""

What persecution guy? This is the heart of the matter. There is NO persecution to speak of. Gays have the right to

Own property together (Joint Tenants)
Designate a Power of Attorney, yes that includes Medical
Designate a Beneficiary for insurance policies.
Gay people buy homes together. I know because I worked for a Real Estate lawyer and closed a loan with an obvious homosexual couple, and we took care of the closing the same way we took care of a straight couple or investment partners.

No they cant file jointly but the tax system is bulls t anyway. It screws many groups from many different angles. Matter of fact, there used to be a marriage PENALTY.

They can own property, have privacy in their own home to do what they want, are not in danger of being reeducated or incarcerated, and even have the tolerance of the American people to live in safety. You are in no way oppressed. The people of Myanmar are oppressed. The North Koreans are oppressed.

Is this what you want to be normal and accepted? A delusional and fantastic mindset of greivances that exist only in ones mind? Its called self victimisation. And its dragging down multitudes of people who wallow in their own affliction.

but I gotta consult several older gay couples I know who have been together for a long while and see how they've done it.""

On your 1002, you fill it out as borrower, and your partner fills out the co-borrower portion. Then when it comes time to determine ownership you choose joint tenants in the entirety with the right of survivorship. That way, if you die, your partner gets the house free and clear. people have been doing it for years. You both sign the deed, the note, and the other loan papers, you both own the house, you both live together, and you did it without the extra step of going to the courthouse and entangling yourselves in ANOTHER contract, that would have to be litigated.

I guess some people dont know a good thing when they have it.

excuse me, 1003 loan application.

there is a caveat that family can contest it if there's no spouse

I remember something about that now....I forgot. ""

Yeah, that it can (and does) happen in Heterosexual instances too.

Look, getting back to the purpose of this thread, I feel bad for this guy that he lost someone special. God Bless the guy for his service, but he knew the rules. He knew, that in his line of work, that certain benefits would not be passed on to his partner. He patronized a system that did not benefit him. Thats choice. He participated despite the risk. If he objected to it, it was not to the point where he could not abide by the rules of the system he supported, that bears culpability on his part. He was a law enforcement officer, and rules apparently meant something to him. Rather than denigrate his memory by ridiculing the laws that he swore to uphold, his partner should appreciate the fact that he was fortunate to have someone for so long, and enjoy the material possessions they shared that he left behind. I do not pity people of any category who pine for large sums of money garnished from the misfortunes of others. Period.

Do gays have the right to be on each other's health plan?

I believe many companies and states offer such benefits to same sex partners. If you live in a state that does not, stop crying and move somewhere that your choice is accepted. There are many. Or take the initiative and create a private insurance demand for health benefits. Its worked before.

To adopt children together?
Homosexuals should absolutely not be allowed to adopt or raise children. Children should be raised in a situation ideal to how children are made. If your father does not know how to relate to women, how can he teach you? That puts the child in the situation of adopting a life choice that he may or may not have chosen had he been given a fair shot.

To give unlimited marital gifts?

If your not stupid enough to report it, yeah. You can have joint accounts.

To participate the way heterosexuals do in the Social Security System?

Push for voluntary enrollment. Most gays dont want kids, so take that extra money and put it into a ROTH IRA. take responsibility.

To bequeath to others with the same tax advantages as marrieds?

As I stated before, the tax system is horse s t. If its really about being fair, press for simplification of the tax code. Its something that can be embraced by everyone, and doesnt create a debate on the issue of homosexuality.

what studies? its 'more than a study, its common sense that children take on the mindset and habits of their parents.

im not saying that the kid is going to come out gay, but hes more likely to tinker with it and screw up his emotional and sexual development. thats what gay is, a failure to relate to the opposite sex, a prime factor in selective breeding.

That's cool, I can give that up. Tell me how I can give MY money without having to worry about it?

See the problem? No money is safe for us, not even the money we own.""

welcome to 21st century america

just a little tidbit for the naysayers on gay adoption.

""All these comments on the death of state trooper and so many comments from right-wingers and yet, not a one about how we need to honor those who serve. Not a word about supporting the families of the men and women who give their lives to protect the rest of us.""

I addressed this in thread #130. This trooper died in the line of duty, and there was a pension available, thats what the whole thread was about. The money was paid, it wasnt paid to the other man that he shared his bed with. perhaps if he chose to live and work in a place that recognized two guys as a valid family unit it would be ok. but he has no children, which these benefits are really meant to provide for. his partner has the house and whatever possessions he left. if he set up a will, he gets the stuff in the will. If your states laws regarding the LAST WILL AND TESTAMENT, then make them ironclad. This is my will do not deviate from it.its that simple. take the gay out of it, and your good. its a winning argument.

Couple more posts then im done.

""Gay marriage activists say the death of Engelhard hailed by the governor for making the "ultimate sacrifice in fulfilling his duty" provides a poignant example of the need for greater rights for same-sex couples""

If they "Hate Fags" so much, he didnt show it in his words of praise, even though everyone knew what lifestyle he lead.

""Either way, while Engelhard's partner is eligible for other benefits possibly including a significant payment from the U.S. Justice Department he is unlikely to receive any from the state of Missouri, which in 2004 approved a constitutional amendment recognizing marriage as between a man and a woman.

"The partner, plain and simple, is out of luck," said state Rep. Mike Colona, D-St. Louis, one of a few openly gay Missouri state legislators. "I'm outraged that that's the situation, but it's the status of the law." ""

Out of luck, Rep Colona? How about a signifigant payment from the DOJ? and other benefits? OMG. Maybe hes not out of luck. Perhaps he's lost his life partner. Thats a little more serious than a cash payment. But even though, hes STILL receiving MONEY for the death of his, f_ck it, husband.

See? complete inability to see the situation as it is, and only how you want to see it. or, in the good Representatives case, fanning the "flames" of tragedy to make himself look as though anything he has to say is worth listening to, like 90% of the activists for gay marriage.

""There is a reason to do that, I think. Dont_TreadOnMe is fine with gay rights as long as they don't infringe on someone else. But look at this case the way it should have played out. The governor should have had to mention the partner. The family should have had to recognize the partner and share the burden. The Social Security Administration and the taxpayers behind it should have had to pony up. The police fraternal organization (boy, what great "brothers" they're being) should have had to honor this relationship.""

THere is the heart of the matter. It is FORCING people to see things your way. There is no compromise in that. It is a lifestyle choice that historically, especially in THIS country, has not been acceptable. Your FORCING change.

Glossip, who works for a medical billing firm, has received some money from the Missouri State Troopers Association. Glossip was listed by Engelhard as the recipient on a small death benefit plan $500 maintained by the association.

""Glossip could be eligible for much more from a federal Department of Justice program that provides money to the survivors including domestic partners of law enforcement officers killed in the line of duty.""

Huh.

""A spokeswoman for the Justice Department said the payment which would be $311,000 for Engelhard may go to a domestic partner if he can prove he is the officer's legal beneficiary.""

Even more interesting.

""Glossip says that Engelhard's family has provided him some financial support since the Christmas accident.""

Despite the fact that he has a lot of money coming. Obviously this is not a shining example of the stingy family shafting (in a bad way) the partner, as a bunch of you guys stated here.

""Engelhard and Glossip lived together in a modest home in rural Robertsville in Franklin County that is in both of their names. Glossip's teenage son from a previous marriage, before Glossip came out as gay regarded Engelhard as a stepfather, Glossip said.""

Theres that annoying fact that there is no threat to joint ownership of property by gays.

""Neither were formally recognized, Glossip said, at Engelhard's funeral last month, attended by dozens of law enforcement officials in Engelhard's hometown of Brookfield, Mo.""

Hes a fallen State Trooper. Honor him as such.

"" "I need closure and my son needs closure," Glossip said. "Something that's truthful, and not dishonest." ""

??? They did not HIDE his gayness. They simply didnt make it a central issue because they are trying to honor the memory of a fallen officer. Last memories are important, and the image that people get when the word "Gay" comes into mind is not graceful.

""Simple question: would you trade your rights within your marriage for the rights of a gay man?""

I certainly would not be so shortsighted as to encumber myself with rules and procedure. and for the 50th time, they enjoy the same constitutional rights as hetero's. They simply are not oppressed. but hey, keep donated to the gay legal defense industry. Im sure there are enough pillowbiting attorney out there that need to finance their next trip to Amsterdam for a blunt and a catalog bought boy for the evening.

Had fun guys. Ill keep watching the thread but im going to retire and open some space. I think I've made my points as good as they can be made. Its apparent that alot of you guys are just too skewed for reasoning. Ive provided so many examples of compromise that just gets brushed aside. Like the typical American, your all hung up on label, and not what is in the package. Its really sad, because there is an entire class of lawyers and politicians laughing at you, all the way to the bank, for your naive and ineffectual outlook. Goodnite.

They simply are not oppressed. "

If you truly believe that, you're a moron.

This guy looks really oppressed.

""In the case of this state trooper, because he didn't even have a will (which I pointed out as "stupid, stupid, stupid" above), I doubt his partner even make it to step one.""

We make mistakes, and pay for them. Before I deployed to Iraq, I set up a will and I was half this guys age. He didnt prepare. Sorry. If he had, there wouldnt be a problem.

As to the family providing "some support", I suspect they helped make a mortgage payment. I've seen this before. The family will "help with payments" until the house gets sold and they take half.

Thats wild speculation not even based on a reporters writings. Please be consistent.

Sorry Danforth I should have said "FOR"

Hey Danforth, got any sons?

There you go Danforth. All that hard work. The sleepless nights of infancy. The 13 years it took to get him to adolescence, the money saved to put him through college. But hey, hes happy. No grandkids, no continuation of your name, no family pride, but, hes happy.

Dont you think that anyone that has expectations, and that cares would be a little hurt when your LIFE'S WORK tells you besides partying and maybe some real good sex in the early years.

Just alluding to whats important in life

Marriage IS preparation Joe.

""I do hope that I am NOTHING like you whatsoever, but the sick reality is that you are my responsibility just as my own brother. I detest you for that and would still defend your life should the situation require it. You absolutely cannot state the same.""

Pardon me, sir, but I HAVE put my life on the line, for 350 million strangers in a foreign country so you dont see what they have over there. Your multitude of crappy jobs dont amount to a dogpile, and I KNOW NO SERVICEMAN would disgrace the service of another. Defend me? You dont know what the hell your talking about. Ive trained to take and SAVE lives, and performed my tasks with distinction. I am willing to take alot of criticism, but im not prepared to accept the blind lashings of an emotional cripple.

I cannot tell you how many crappy jobs I've lost because they "figure out" that I'm gay""

1. You could not tell that I'm homosexual by the way I look, speak, walk, dress or any other "effeminacy" that you claim to pathetically revile. Gay people are not aware of my sexuality, but why should female attributes make you squeamish? We are all a mix, you stupid, stupid prick.""

Which is it bro? Maybe your temper tantrums cost your jobs. If you could get this worked up over a couple of non accusatory opinions God knows what an authority figure would do.

Golly, and gay people aren't permitted to even join the American military (or do so at extreme risk) so I suppose it's IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to match your "impressive record".

""

More assumptions. There are gays in my battalion, one who is flaming gay, and no one fucks with him. So this gay bashing your envisioning, doesnt exist, at least not in my bonafide, not presumptive, experience. Theres no gay gulag, no reeducation, no beatings, no rapings.

You are way too sensitive. You are probably very interested in a partner and are way too self conscious to relate to anyone. Dont be pissed at me for my opinions. The reason I got under your skin is because I pointed out just how retarded the argument for gay marriage was. I noted sympathy for the bereaved several times. Im just not going to place that relationship on the same level as the marriage of a man and a woman, because marriage between man and woman is what keeps society going. Its the traditional values of this country that has given you a safe environment to live how you choose.

Go back to your resource wars and kill in the name of God and country.""

let me take you back about 50 or more years to another "resource war" that ended the mass slaughter of gays in germany.

or how about the liberation of iraq and kuwait which gives you and the Kuwaitis and Iraqis an easier life. I cant tell you how many thumbs up we got from people on the street. Its because they had a brutal Stalinist dictator that REALLY oppressed his people. You complain about silly things like being equal with a lifestyle you emulate only partially and there were people over there getting body parts cut off because of the tribe they were in.

Joe, thats twice youve posted stupid on this thread. Ill indulge.

The same law that "oppresses" gays by not allowing them to marry protects them doubly so from being fired, attacked, or discrimated against in housing issues.

The RESPECT for the opinion of others (that most of you lack)stems from English civil liberties, that Americans actually bled to enhance. The rule of law and fairness that allows gays to parade in spandex and makeup and say and do whatever they want through the media (with the exception of basic decency laws)

Joe, post 186 is a little on the f(*&& retarded side.

Besides, Joe, homosexuality didnt hit it big until the family structure started breaking down. If these men and women learned at the proper age their proper roles and how to relate to the opposite sex all of this misery would have never manifested itself, and emotionally spastic men like REDLIGHT would be mentally healthy people.

Look at America today. Relaxed attitudes toward lifestyle choices, and personal ambiguity has bred a whole new generation of drug users, teen mothers, porn addicts, and practitioners of casual sex. Before, the importance of appearance kept it at a minimum. Now, its available everywhere. And it entices people who would not otherwise do it to dabble. Thats why divorce rates are so high. you have to be blind to see how society has declined in quality, and how the inversion of morals has occurred. dress, music, food quality, even art has experienced decline. morally fickle societys do not survive, they crumble. At a time when weve filled the power vacuum of the world, weve started to cripple the chief source of our manpower, the American Family. that Norman Rockwell shit.