Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs

The Oklahoma legislature recently passed a law that requires a survey of women about why they chose an abortion and posts the answers on the Internet. Names will be omitted but the survey includes dozens of questions. Oklahoma has some of the toughest abortion laws in the United States. "The only question that's not asked of these women is their name," said opponent Caitlyn Wright, a student at the University of Oklahoma. "The real purpose of the bill is to shame women from having this procedure."

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To be fair, it AIN'T a "routine medical procedure." It also ain't anybody's business but the patient's and the doctor's. But of course, that's all tap-dancing around the real story, which is Oklahoma trying to intimidate women out of having an abortion. That law will never stand up on appeal.

I wonder what point they are trying to make. I hope all of the women having abortions, would say they had it so their jeans would fit better--then see what happens.


To be fair, it AIN'T a "routine medical procedure."

#1 | Posted by SamBarber at 2009-12-19 03:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

When you can walk out the same day you walk in, that qualifies as a routine medical procedure to me.


I wonder what point they are trying to make.
.....#2 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob

.......Oklahomans hate the Constitution........

.......that's their point.......

When you can walk out the same day you walk in, that qualifies as a routine medical procedure to me.

#3 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2009-12-19 04:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

The word you are looking for is 'ambulatory.'

A 'routine' medical procedure is having your teeth cleaned every six months.

If a woman is having an abortion every six months it would be routine, but only for her.

.......Oklahomans hate the Constitution........

.......that's their point.......

#4 | Posted by skizziks at 2009-12-19 05:07 PM | Reply | Flag:


Tenth Amendment Powers of States and people.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

-------

The part they hate must be where the Constitution delegates most authority to state legislatures. You know, the part that SCOTUS often cites when refusing many cases, regarding them as a state issue.

Or maybe that's the part you hate.

Oklahomans hate the Constitution

Doesn't the "____________ hates America/Constitution" retort get old? One senator voices his silly opinion and the entire state he is from hates the Constitution?

Grow up, skiz

When you can walk out the same day you walk in, that qualifies as a routine medical procedure to me.

I wouldn't having your gallbladder removed a "routine medical procedure" yet they are routinely scheduled as a one day operation and you are expected to leave the hospital the same day you arrive.

#8 | Posted by CalifChris at 2009-12-19 08:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

A gall bladder removal isn't the operation it used to be---there is an incision about an inch long. It is a routine operation as far as I'm concerned, with little discomfort, and a short recovery time.

When you can walk out the same day you walk in, that qualifies as a routine medical procedure to me.

#3 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2009-12-19 04:00 PM

You're saying having an abortion is just a "routine procedure." Physically perhaps it is.

And I'm not saying now that you do look at it this way, but I'm kind of curious to know if you also consider the emotional and mental reprecussions felt afterwards by many women who have an abortion as also being in the "routine" category.

And if so, how would you -- as a man -- even know? Wouldn't it be like me trying to tell you what your feelings and emotions would (or should) be if you decided to have an irreversible vasectomy? I ask only because so many men always seem to want to weigh in on the abortion issue where I often feel they should just butt out unless it directly involves them personally.

Also, this isn't to address the right for a woman to have an abortion. I leave each to their own personal opinion on that issue.

Okay, later.

#10 - reprecussions = repercussions

BuffaloBob

Re my #10 --

I hope we can debate various issues but always be friends on here. You know you're quite liberal in your views and I'm to the right of center so there'll always be issues where we'll butt heads. When we're debating you can let me have it with both barrels and I won't take it personally and don't want you to either if I do the same -- although I'm actually pretty nice. lol Okay, just so you know.

When you can walk out the same day you walk in, that qualifies as a routine medical procedure to me.

#3 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2009-12-19 04:00 PM

For Boob, the secret of winning an argument is simply to change the meaning of words.
---
"It's a beautiful thing, the destruction of words. You wouldn't have seen the Dictionary 10th edition, would you Smith?"
--Syme

#9 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob

Actually it is 3 incisions and if you havd had it done you would not say short recovery. That is if you are active at all.

And I'm not saying now that you do look at it this way, but I'm kind of curious to know if you also consider the emotional and mental reprecussions felt afterwards by many women who have an abortion as also being in the "routine" category.

It isn't up to me to consider the emotional and mental repercussions felt afterwards by many women---it is up to the woman herself to consider those factors before having the procedure. What I am saying is that a woman is capable of making that decision on her own without any input from me.

And if so, how would you -- as a man -- even know? Wouldn't it be like me trying to tell you what your feelings and emotions would (or should) be if you decided to have an irreversible vasectomy?

Vaectomies are sometimes reversible, but I accept your point. I agree with your point. No one else should have any input as to my having a vasectomy except myself---neither man or woman. If she should regret her decision later on, that is her problem, just as if I should regret my decision later on. We have all made decision we regret later on in life--that doesn't mean it is better for others to make those decisions for us. Having children can sometimes be regretted later on in life also.

I ask only because so many men always seem to want to weigh in on the abortion issue where I often feel they should just butt out unless it directly involves them personally.

I will go a step further--no man has any say in a womans decision to abort or not--ever. My point is that not only should all men butt out, but everyone else should butt out also---it is up to the woman to make her own life decision.

Also, this isn't to address the right for a woman to have an abortion. I leave each to their own personal opinion on that issue.

Then you are pro-choice--just like me. )


Okay, later.


#10 | Posted by CalifChris at 2009-12-19 11:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

The requirement that these long surveys be published on the Internet proves that the purpose is intimidation. This is highly sensitive private information, and the likelihood some women could be identified from their answers is pretty high.

Can you imagine the uproar if everyone treated for erectile dysfunction had to answer a 40-question survey that must be posted on the Internet?

One more example of the bully-boy approach to politics with which some are so enamored.

HIPAA violation from here to next week. No way this will stand.

Can you imagine the uproar if everyone treated for erectile dysfunction had to answer a 40-question survey that must be posted on the Internet?

#16 | Posted by rcade

You are comparing apples and oranges here. Erectile dysfunction is not a voluntary condition.
On the other hand I do not think it is right for these people to be required to do this.


the likelihood some women could be identified from their answers is pretty high.


#16 | Posted by rcade

Since the questionaire is not in the article how did you come to this conclusion?

"Since the questionaire is not in the article how did you come to this conclusion?"

Because, unlike you, Chickenchoker, there's at least a fair-to-middlng chance RCade did his homework: the questionnaire and lots more at webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us

It is a scare tactic that will pervert future poling results on the issue.

If it becomes law that women MUST answer the survey, how many are going to tell the truth for fear of unseen consequences to their answer?

So, they lie. Ergo, Oklahoma looks like it has the Lowest abortion rate in the country, and they can claim it's because they are a true conservative God-Fearing State.....ggggggrrrrrrrrrr....
...AMEN!

Right-wingers! Can't live with them. Can't feed them to lions without getting arrested.

#21 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

Then he should have posted a link to back up his statement.

Well, let's see: First, he didn't answer your question so he's probably doing something a chickenchoker wouldn't be able to grasp; you know, like work. Then again, perhaps he assumed that you're capable of dong some easy peasy checking on your own without having to be led by the snout to the readily accessible source.

Whatever. Ball's in your court now, chump. Have at it and refute what he's said.

State-by-state abortion rates: www.statemaster.com

You are comparing apples and oranges here. Erectile dysfunction is not a voluntary condition.

I'm comparing one sensitive and highly personal medical subject with another. Just because people choose to have abortions does not mean they should be harassed by the state and have their private medical information published on the Internet.

Since the questionaire is not in the article how did you come to this conclusion?

It's a 37 question survey. Privacy studies have shown that given enough separate pieces of data, it's easy to identify supposedly anonymous people.

More info on this law.

www.cnn.com

#27 | Posted by rcade at 2009-12-20 12:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

The identity may even be incorrect, and a woman who never had an abortion may be targeted by zealots whose incorrect identification harasses a woman who never had the procedure.

"the likelihood some women could be identified from their answers is pretty high."

I read about this a while back. Oklahoma has many small towns, if it is reported that a young woman from Podunk, OK it won't be hard to figure out which woman it is when there may be, at most, fifty to choose from. Some places there won't even be that many.

Oklahoma is where the wind coms roaring down the plain and every county is red. No other state in the union can say that. It's time to reverse Will Rogers' dictum that Okies coming to California in the 1930s raised the median IQ of both states. I rather think that if the earth opened up and swallowed "The Sooner State," it would be weeks before anyone noticed. herm


The requirement that these long surveys be published on the Internet proves that the purpose is intimidation. This is highly sensitive private information, and the likelihood some women could be identified from their answers is pretty high.


Can you imagine the uproar if everyone treated for erectile dysfunction had to answer a 40-question survey that must be posted on the Internet?

#16 | Posted by rcade at 2009-12-20 11:11 AM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Yeah... Goat and Vern would likely be against this whole craziness

Oh, I forgot Chikn-herder

Yeah... Goat and Vern would likely be against this whole craziness/i>

I stated the first time this thread was posted I thought it was stupid. But thanks for once again proving yourself to be a knee-jerk jerk.

BTW, even if I did have to answer 40 questions and they were posted on the internet, I'd still buy it.

Then he should have posted a link to back up his statement.

#23 | Posted by chickenrancher at 2009-12-20 11:43 AM | Reply | Flag:


Like you and the rest of the Right-tard clowns do every time you post some bullshit ... right?

common... the burden of proof is with you... clown

State-by-state abortion rates:

www.statemaster.com

#25 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2009-12-20 11:51 AM


Odd that California isn't even listed considering it's a state with one of the highest populations.

#35 | Posted by goatman at 2009-12-20 10:05 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Always a hoot Goat... hey, I need to know what you know about Katy, TX.... looks like I'll be relocating.

I need to know what you know about Katy, TX....

NOt much really except that I go through it on I-10 everytime I have the unpleasant obligation of having to go to Houston. I've heard neither good nor bad about the place.

#39 | Posted by goatman at 2009-12-20 10:14 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e


Ok, I thought you may know more... I will be relocating to that area. :(

take care

If they wanted the survey to run stats--and keep the information off the internet--AND have permission from the women--that would be fine.

But all this force in making women complete this survey is bs--not to mention putting it on the web.

LFTHNDTHRDS

Here's Wikipedia on Katy, Texas

KATY, TEXAS

Also google the words "Katy Texas" and read their local newspaper and some of the other info found on google's page.

Do you have a place to stay set up for yourself yet? I've been checking out Craig's List for apts. for rent in that state. I may be moving to Texas too (unless things change in the next couple of months and I decide to move elsewhere). You can also look for houses to buy or rent in Katy, TX here on Craig's List depending on what you and your family need.

CRAIG'S LIST - APTS. KATY, TEXAS

Ok, I thought you may know more... I will be relocating to that area. :(

take care

40 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2009-12-20 10:19 PM


Goat's trying to keep as many out-of-state liberals as he can from moving to Texas. LOL

Then you are pro-choice -- just like me. : )

#15 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2009-12-20 10:55 AM


No, I'm not pro-choice "just" like you. You're more liberal so you probably have no restrictions on a woman's right to an abortion -- even as to how far along she might be in her pregnancy. If I'm wrong then just tell me.

I agree women have the right to an abortion but only during the first trimester and even then it should be under strict circumstances, not just a matter of "being more convenient" for them. And it should always be a private matter.

Do you agree with the right to an abortion even after the 4th or 5th month of pregnancy? I don't like to see women having an abortion at all but it's an individual choice. However, I would never agree to allowing an abortion after the first trimester unless not doing so would definitely result in the death of the mother.

CC--by your description you are 'technically' pro-choice.

'Technically' I am pro-choice as well--it's a conflict for me.

LFTHNDTHRDS

If you don't mind me asking, what state are you relocating from to move to TX?

Was wondering if you had checked into the rates re any reasonably priced moving vans, U-hauls, etc. and had any suggestions. I don't have a big houseload of furniture but was looking for the best way to move the pieces I do have along with a number of boxes. I may have to place some things temporarily in storage there while I check around for a place to live.

'Technically' I am pro-choice as well--it's a conflict for me.

#45 | Posted by MURPHY at 2009-12-20 11:00 PM

I think it's a conflict for 99% of women.

I'll be back later. Going to watch "The White House Christmas Special" on now on HGTV.

Going to watch "The White House Christmas Special" on now on HGTV.

#47 | Posted by CalifChris


Barf---lol

What does Oklahoma plan do to with this data? Is this an epidemiological study? Who is the Principal Investigator? Apparently it's a candidate for governor...

"How can we counsel, how can we treat, how can we offer counseling to mothers to be that are choosing abortion, if we don't have hard-core facts?" Lamb asks.

Oh my, have we decided the outcome of the experiment before we have the data? I call shenanigans.

What would the penalty be for answering "Pound that survey up your ass....sideways" for each question?

Honestly, I don't think this is the way to go, but perhaps this is an attempt to do what many pro-choice people call for in regard to abortion.

Make it legal, make and safe and make it rare.

Aside from birth control which is widely available, it seems to me that discouraging women from having abortions is a necessary way to make it rare.

#29 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob

Nice stretch there cowboy.


LFTHNDTHRDS


If you don't mind me asking, what state are you relocating from to move to TX?


Was wondering if you had checked into the rates re any reasonably priced moving vans, U-hauls, etc. and had any suggestions. I don't have a big houseload of furniture but was looking for the best way to move the pieces I do have along with a number of boxes. I may have to place some things temporarily in storage there while I check around for a place to live.

#45 | Posted by CalifChris at 2009-12-20 11:01 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

I've been reading the local paper in Katy for a month or so now. Looks clean with a small town feel to it. I was just looking for a first-hand opinion from someone who has been around there. I can really live anywhere in the Hou-metro area but Katy caught my eye. My move will be contracted out to a moving company so I haven't checked on any pricing.

They will publish the results of the US Census questions, without names, and will people lie or tell the truth?

The law requires a truthful answer.

So they ask her a bunch of questions about the abortion and then print the results.

The census does the same.

It draws a picture based on the answers.

Polls do the same thing - they don't give the names, just the results.

If you want to find the answers to questions, you need to ask them. To secure these answers to be made public, the law prevents disclosure of the names.

These questionaires aren't really unusual. I had to answer all kinds of questions and it wasn't about abortion. Those answers will be added to others and the results presented to some group without my name on it.

If I run a hospital and I see a large number of women coming in with a medical need and the number grows, I'd like to know what the problem is so I can address the cause to prevent symtoms that have an end result.

The State is just doing the same thing. If these medical procedures are so necessary then lets find out what is causing the problem and address it.

What people don't want is the government addressing Roe v Wade's "physician's medical judgment".

R v W remarked that the States have an interest and cannot interfere if there is a physician's medical judgment. It isn't just her choice. So, this questionaire should peg down the horrible medical conditions all these women are suffering and start addressing them.

Don't you want serious medical conditions addressed to save a woman's health?

I thought everyone wanted to know facts... via data-polling, stats, and all that. What better way to find out the "whys" and "how comes" to better take care of and/or legislate around the people getting this done. Now you say they're shaming people out of abortions? If a procedure or whatever, caries with it shame (of which is personally derived form ones own conscience) then isn't it more likely there might be something wrong with their decision to begin with? I would think this potential "safety-net" might better protect those who might recklessly be going through the procedure and later have to deal with psychological effects of not thinking the result completely thorough. Not everyone who has an abortion thinks they aren't stopping life.

Anyone who is confident with their decision, would care less what others think. Those that aren't should go home and think about it some more. What's wrong with that ya little busy-bees.

Wow, PETRUS and I on on about the same page (at least w/ this argument). Didn't mean to sound a regurgitator - I guess that's what happens when ya click on a link and "get to that one later". :-)

LFTHNDTHRDS --

You don't seem to be on DR all that much so I'll tell you who would probably know about Katy, TX and that's AFKABL2. He lives in Houston and probably knows more about its surrounding cities like Katy, TX than anyone on here.

AFKABLE2 is usually always on the Nooner first thing in the morning when the thread goes up at 9:00 a.m. EST. Address a post to him on there and put his name in bold (so it catches his eye) and ask him your questions. I'll bet he can give you some advice about the place.

K. thanks

I'll bet he can give you some advice about the place.

That is if you can discern the "advice" through the inane ramblings interspersed with RANDOM bits of CAPS.

Can you imagine the uproar if everyone treated for erectile dysfunction had to answer a 40-question survey that must be posted on the Internet?

#16 | Posted by rcade


Now you're sounding like Boxer. What is it they say, "Apples and oranges"?

Can you imagine the uproar if everyone treated for erectile dysfunction had to answer a 40-question survey that must be posted on the Internet?

#16 | Posted by rcade


Now you're sounding like Boxer. What is it they say, "Apples and oranges"?
#59 | Posted by R0B0T


...oh, I see. The penis and the route the hook takes to abort a fetus both involve sexual organ regions. Naturally, a good analogy should encompass the same, right? Come-on, ...lame.

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