Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs

Banks will have to secure their customers' consent before charging large overdraft fees on ATM and debit card transactions, according to a new rule announced today by the Federal Reserve.

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I can't wait until I just scan my hand over a sensor to pay for my goods.

I remember when banks did not offer this service. I can also imagine them doing away with it. No overdraft protection and you are bouncing checks. Hum, I wonder which people would chose - fees or bounced checks?

When you are at a terminal, you can make a decision. But overdraw a check or credit card, you're still screwed. I think this rule was intended to sound magnanimous without accomplishing anything.

I thought you paid for everything in bullion.

meaningless

Overdrafts on ATM and debit cards are a scam run by the banks to create profits. The same holds true on credit cards that are approved for purchases over the limit.

I've never overdrafted. I could really care less about the Fed doing this. Seems like a waste of time.

In college, I had gone out for dinner, knowing I was getting paid the next day, and was sure to order enough to have a decent tip.

The asshole decided my $2 on a $6 bill wasn't enough. He gave himself $5. That $5 overdrew my account for $2. Charged me $29. So I got paid the next day and went out not realizing this had happened.

Then I bought my books and went shopping over the weekend. Well, it turns out my check didn't end up posting til 3pm for some reason on a friday.

I looked at my account Monday after all this, -$245 balance because the deposit apparently ended up posting at 3pm, but all the charges (which were bought after it regardless) were seen as before the account went positive...

Well anyways, it was a mess. They had me by the balls for $150 worth of overdraft charges when it wasn't my fault. Only until I got the restaurant to finally give me the $2 back, did the bank rescind the charges (and not after making me wait on hold and bounce me around for hours). I then pulled all my money out of that bank and moved on. Fuck US Bank, them assholes never did anything good for me but take my money and piss me off.

The reason why this is necessary, in part, is because banks are allowed to change the terms for account holders who selected accounts where overdrafts were not allowed, essentially without proof of notice. They send out letters saying they are doing the account holder a favor in changing their account to allow overdrafts, but do not require proof of acceptance of this change. Rather, they take lack of refusal of the change as acceptance.

My brother opened an account that did not have overdrafts precisely because he didn't want to have to worry about it. This option was sold to him for exactly that reason mind you. He later moved, and filed an address change with the post office. The notices were never forwarded to him and the next month he made about 10 transactions totalling about $100, but they each accrued an overdraft charge of $35. The next time he went to deposit a check, they told him that he had a negative balance of almost $500. He was completely blindsided and the bank was unwilling to negotiate with him. He did everything right and was penalized for it.

Ovedraft at an ATM is meaningless ATM's always tell you if you are taking out too much, however if you use the debit and forgot about a check that hit and go three places and spend 30 total you just spent 135 not 30. Sucks but it's your fault so on one hand it would be nice for them to warn you but on the other it's not their job.

Sucks but it's your fault so on one hand it would be nice for them to warn you but on the other it's not their job.

#10 | Posted by TaoWarrior

when they sell you an account for precisely the reason that you will have no fear of overdraft, then yes, it is their job.

Hag,

You wrote about your brother while I was typing. Thats a different situation. I was talking about what happened to me and why I don't use my debit card without checking on my account ballance. My account does not and never has blocked overdrafts. Like I said sometimes it is your fault and when it is you pay the fine and remember the lesson. Now the one that pisses me off is when you have 3 checks hit and they put the largest first causing the other 2 to overdraft rather than putting the small ones through and overdrafting the big one. There are a bunch of tricks banks use to swipe money from the broke the trick is to learn and not get caught. Of course when your bank changes hands 2 times you have to make sure you keep up with the changes.

"There are a bunch of tricks banks use to swipe money from the broke the trick is to learn and not get caught. Of course when your bank changes hands 2 times you have to make sure you keep up with the changes."

Yes, when you have agreed before hand to accept overdraft protection, then it is your obligation to monitor your account balance.

But perhaps, we should be looking at the idea of overdraft protection in general as a cc scam to begin with? Its sold as a favor to account holders, but you have to admit that they wouldn't have done so if they didn't have data supporting the economic advantage of doing so.

I was on a trip to Ca. and looked online at my BOFA account and it said I had 300 sum odd and went out that night and made 5 transactions within that amount. I assumed the balance on the account was in real time. I woke up the next morning, logged on to my account and it showed 4 overdraft charges @ $35.00 ea. I got back home and went to see my friendly bank and asked how could this be? I admit I was pretty wasted when I used my card. The 1st transaction put me in overdraft. But, they still approved my other purchases and charged a bump of $35.00 ea. I argued that they should of just declined my debit card and the response I got was "sorry, that's how the system works."

After 25 years with this bank it cost me 140 and change to say good-bye forever. Years ago I'm sure they would have waived the fees. But now you deal with hard-fast automated bullshit. Now, I just stuff my mattress.

My own experience with Bank of America and the overdraft charges have been exactly the opposite.

When a company I paid electronically double dipped my account to the tune of an extra $195, it caused two overdraft debits in the amount of $35 each.

I immediately went to my bank, explained (and showed them) the double-dip, and they waived the two $35 charges. I also showed them my e-mail conversation with the company in question and their written agreement to reverse the double-dip to my account.

Bank of America was extremely gracious and gave me no argument whatsoever.

I suppose it helped that I did not have a history of overdrafts. Those who do, obviously, have a lot more explaining to do.

Resolving an overdraft problem quickly is one of the perks of on-line banking.

The bottom line is, whether the overdraft is your fault or the fault of someone else, the bank is not obligated to be your nanny. Pay attention to your account and be responsible for it.

Maybe I just haven't noticed, but don't I already have the option to NOT have overdraft protection and thus be subsequently denied funds?

What would be nice are limits on the charge. Its a god damned automated computer transaction that covers the overdraft with MY money. Its not like they had to get someone to pick up a gold bar and drop it another box or something. It amounts to a 30 dollar something fee for a milisecond transaction. The damned computers are NOT that expensive to operate.

I'm all for the being responsible with your money bit, but yeah a $30 charge is just flat out ridiculous. But I'm not seeing how this is the answer? How about reasonable limits on the fees?

Having to authorize consent for each overdraft charge sounds like there is going to be expensive work that will need to happen to implement the authorization in a convenient manner. Limiting the fee makes alot more sense.

Recently I had post dated a check for an event I wanted to attend next month and it was accidently deposited.

The day it hit my bank, I had gotten a.call from my personal banker and she told me a check came in that caused an overdraft. I couldn't imagine why so we went over our checking account and found out that check had been cashed already.

She told me that since we had never bounced a check that they had gone ahead and paid it and if I got the money in before the end of the business day, I wouldn't be charged an over draft fee.

I was talking to my neighbor and had told her what happened and that I was suprised a bank would do that. She said she banks there as well and they always give a courtesy call.

I think that's a nice service since they really are not obligated to do so. It saved me 25 dollars!

Living in a small community has some advantages!


from the top...

"I can't wait until I just scan my hand over a sensor to pay for my goods."

#1 | Posted by wurster at 2009-11-12 09:10 PM

of course they will also implant a small
GPS locater chip in your hand along with it,
just so Uncle Sammy can keep an eye on you,
and where you are going.

I think I'll pass...

I try to always use cash so I don't have to worry with overdrafts.

I avoid overdrafts by keeping my checkbook balanced.

of course they will also implant a small
GPS locater chip in your hand along with it,
just so Uncle Sammy can keep an eye on you,
and where you are going.



"Hey look, this guy wurster is rapidly moving back and forth 1/4 inch repeatedly!"

Some future Government Beauracrat

I avoid overdrafts by making lots of money.

I avoid overdrafts by making lots of money.

That'll work, too.

I avoid overdrafts by closing the high windows in the house

There is no way the average person should have to know how much money they have in their account. That's the governments job. Normal people shouldn't have to be able to add or subtract and all that number crap. I think when you get an overdraft Obama should reqard you for stimulating the economy even if you did it with imaginary money. After all, that is how Obama is stimulating the economy.

Of course it is the individual's responsibility to know their bank balance and not over draft but if they mistake it shouldn't be considered as an opportunity for banks to rob them. Most banks even rearrange all transactions on the day of the overdraft from largest to smallest regardless of the real order of the transactions in order to maximize the number of overdraft fees. The banks used to make income by loaning money and investing, their poor judgement caused them to gradually shift to making their real profits from fees. For many working poor people one little overdraft can begin a series of events that leaves them homeless. I hope there is a hell in the afterlife because I honestly believe, if there is, it will be filled with bankers.

I am in a Credit Union.

When I overdraft a check (not that I write checks, but let's say I use my debit card for more than the balance in my checking account) they charge me two bucks and take the required funds out of Savings.

If I don't have the money in Savings they automatically loan me the money at about 8% or so.

Another time I was paying off my Discover (ugh) card with the Visa from my C.U. For some reason I had to fax a signed transfer form to the C.U. I had to fax it rather than do this in person since my C.U. is a small office on the other side of the country.

So, I sent my fax, but some time went by and the transfer didn't happen, and I got a new bill from Discover. I re-faxed the form and called my C.U. and asked them what had happened. They transferred the new balance and credited my account with the amount of additional interests payments that had accrued. And I got a call from a VP to make sure I was satisfied with how they handled the situation.

Why on earth any of you people deal with banks is beyond my comprehension.

Think about it... banks earn a profit off your money. Credit Unions return those profits to their members. Even if they're not as profitable, the profits go to you, not somebody else.

Essentially credit unions don't look at fees as a "profit center" the way banks do. Because the fees are really just losses from the members. It avoids the moral hazard so obvious in the banking industry today.

I expect to be in this same credit union until I'm dead or forced to bank elsewhere should I leave the country or something.

Pay attention .. and be responsible.

#15 | Posted by Twinpac

What? What?

Seems like a good code to have for everything in life.

I got hit for 175 for a 3 dollar item....this was after I contacted the bank to make sure that I had no overdraft protection..for this very reason.....

I don't use credit, and generally keep my accounts in order, but since a check that i'd deposited hadnt cleared, the purchase I made 2 days later triggered an overdraft. 14 days later, I recieve a notice in the mail that due to this I needed to make a deposit of 300+ dollars (other stuff came in and added to the total overdraft of 175 but it was the $3 purchased that triggered it).

You'd figure since I do my banking online as well as seeing them send me emails about my statement etc, they'd notify me via email, but instead, seemed to not only opt for the most time consuming method of notification, since the enveloped was post marked 6 days prior, they also seemed to have delayed the mailing for 6 days. I'm sorry, but in state mail does not take 6 days to reach its destination.

When I contacted TD Bank to inquire why I had overdraft charges for Overdraft Protection that I not only didnt want and verified I didnt have, I was informed that the Bank had "discretionary" authority to provide it.

Needless to say, I was livid and they finally removed the charges.....as well as another one that came in on the day I was speaking with them.

Call bullshit on the banking industry.

But I can't possibly be overdrawn! I still have lots of checks left ...

#15 | Posted by Twinpac at 2009-11-13 02:33 AM | Reply

I have to agree. When in college, I overdrafted my account 3x's in one day. BOA took two of the overdraft charges off with no hassle (still had to pay $29 but that's a bit better than almost $90!) If I'd been more responsible, I'd have tracked my accounts better and would never have needed overdraft protection.

Once people start bouncing checks or getting denied funds because overdraft protection is gone/waived, it'll be interesting to see if the pendulum swings back and these same people start to demand overdraft protection again. I'm sure the banks will be glad to provide it...for a much higher fee than they charge now.

bartimus,

maybe, but then again maybe not.

In my 40+ years, I've overdrawn my account 2x where the error was mine, and that was years ago.

I'm sure there are more than enough who feel that charging obscene rates for overdraft far outweigh the benefits.

The whole country can't be that lazy and stupid, regardless of appearances.

Loh

I overdraft on a pretty regular basis (you try supporting a family of 5 on 31k a year) I would certainly not opt out of overdraft however someone else hit the nail on the head, $35 bucks for a transaction that takes literaly miliseconds and usualy winds up being at anywhere from 20-400% interest on the funds is insane and frankly usurious and the banks know it. When I first got a bank account the overdraft fees were 15 bucks transactions were processed in the order received not highest to lowest. So clearly they could cover cost at 15 bucks the other 20 is just profit.

Snoofy I keep meaning to look into a credit union but never get around to it, I will have to get on it and quit being lazy if you get that kind of service.

exactly Tao!

And it is not just about overdraft fees. It is ok for the bank to make a profit but fees amounting to 400% interest are criminal.

They also jack up interest rates on credit cards from say 9% - 29% on a WHIM and this should be regulated somehow. If someone is carrying a high balance (say for Medical Expenses) and they agreed on a 9% card and suddenly that interest is jacked to 29% (EVEN IF THE USER IS NEVER LATE AND USES DIRECT DEPOSIT!) then the poor card holder may never be able to pay it off. Effectively making them a slave.

This is the kind of thanks we are getting from the bankers.

I think the stimulus money should have gone directly to the People.

Loan Sharking Banks!

"........before charging large overdraft fees on ATM and debit card transactions"

Funny isn't it the the Fed Reserve never said Fucking BOO about Americans being charged + gouged EXHORBITANT and even Loan Sharking level rates of interest on their credit cards????? Just more of Obama's "Total Fucking Hypocrisy"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

High overdraft fees are supposed to be a deterrent.

$35 bucks each may seem high but if the charge was only $2 or $3, I suspect many irresponsible people would consider that a small price to pay for a quick, interest free "loan" from their bank.

Credit cards companies (interest rates may vary without notice) were a much bigger problem until Obama got involved and lowered the boom on them.

Unless you're so rich that "minimum payment" doesn't mean anyting to you, credit cards can, and often do, ruin a cardholder's life.

You should be thanking the President for caring enough to get involved.



Twinpac,

Normally I'd agree, and maybe it was intended as a dererrant at first, but if that was the case,

1, they'd not offer it automatically and, like in my case, tell you that its "at their discretion"
2, they wouldn't process the transactions from highsest to lowest and debits before credits.

To me the found a ball with "easy money" written on it and are running the hell out of it while they can.

As for Obama, I'm still on the fence. It's been almost 1 year and personally I don't feel we're getting the return on the dollars invested and I'm kind of worried that we're still throwing around money we don't have.

If he had a plan to pay it back or recoup it before his term is up, I'd be happy, but he's just going to lay it on the steps of the next president and the rest of the country to deal with while he goes off and makes his money as an ex-president.

That pattern's getting old.

Loh

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