You can't explain college level physics to people with GEDs.

there were no body parts, baggage or other necessities associated with anything like commercial passenger

They found Atta's passport intact and without even burn marks in the debris that burned for days, and he was the pilot in the front of the jet.

...who's members produce almost nothing of commercial value...

Translates to we can't exploit them like we want too.

With the exception of Indonesia and to a lesser extent Pakistan, Muslims have always resisted the west's hegemonic imperialism. Indonesia is an exception because they are the least conservative and the most industrious of the Muslim countries. The middle easterners who are the most radical and of the Muslim countries were historically traders. They moved the goods between the the far east and Europe. The whole purpose of the Columbus explorations was to find a route not controlled by the Middle Eastern countries. Hence the crusades started by the Catholics, which were nothing less then state sponsored genocide of the Moors. It was a bloody but unsuccessful campaign.

It wasn't until the Panama Canal that the modern day problems in the middle East began. It was not a religious problem. Muslims tolerated the religions of the countries they conquered as long as the people paid their taxes. Sound familiar? America and Europe no longer needed them as porters and merchants which was the start of forcing western values on the Muslims for the sake of industrial exploitation and the start of the present day troubles there.

In short, the Europeans hoped to do to the Moors what they did to the Native Americans of North and South America. Unfortunately, the disease that the Europeans brought with them that eventually destroyed the Mayan, Incas and American Indians didn't work on the Ottoman Empire which resulted in a standoff to this day.

Peace won't reign again in the region until both parties either destroy each other or put down their arms, and shut their foul mouths.

I seem to remember reading about a massive wave of MUSLIM attacks and conquests when Europe and Islam were introduced.

If you are talking about the invasion of the Moors into Spain, it was not massive and it was probably the best thing that ever happened to Spain. It brought civilization to a country that was still in the dark ages. It was more of a cultural invasion then a slaughter of infidels that became the hallmark of the crusades.

No little pre pubescent plebe, ...

I don't debate with trash mouths or religious psychos. See a shrink Dr. Fellgood.

usaf242...Another crackpot in need of a shrink.

From Bendor..."Your faith is garbage and Mohammad was a blood-thirsty murderer."

I am not a Muslim. I am a Buddhist in faith and if you had any knowledge of history at all you would know that Muslims dislike Buddhists as much as Christians. You would also know that at one time, the Ottoman Empire was far more advanced then the Europeans in both culture and sciences. Did you ever hear of the library of Alexander? I think not.

You and your ilk sound like the barbaric hordes of old Europe.

Their faith had everything to do with it. It was heir faith, in the twisted way they interpret it, that told them to kill infidels who are in their land and who do not convert. Islam taught them much about hating and killing and it is what drove them to do what they did. If it were not for Islam the attacks would have never happened.

So you wish to follow in the beliefs you condemn about their faith?

That's a Christian for you. Just as bloodthirsty in beliefs, but in reality just a bunch of hypocrites who mock the words of Jesus, their own God.

It is "Thou Shall not Murder"

Also, the the "Thou shall not suffer a Witch to live" is more accurately "Thou shall not suffer a POISONER" to live.

In fact, it is IMMORAL to "not" kill individuals that commit the most horrid crimes (torture murder, etc...)

History rewritten by the military mind. I would laugh, but it's too sad to think someone has become so brainwashed. I got news for you flyboy, murder is killing and whether you kill you fellow man by dropping bombs under color of authority and wearing a uniform or planting bombs in the street as a terrorist in a hijab, it's still murder. You can't justify it by calling it something else.

True Sully, my bad, you just can't trust the God damned spell checker when you type too fast.

boojiboy has a point too, but missed the big one. The middle east had a highly refined culture long before the Europeans and the fact that Muhammad wasn't born until later doesn't mean they are not the same race. My point is that the Arabs had plenty to offer Europeans and they moved into Spain gradually although forcefully, not a massive attack. The Spanish were even eager to learn what they had to offer, so much in fact that they built over 70 universities and introduced reading and writing to 99% of the population in Spain in a time when 99% of the rest of Europeans couldn't count past their fingers and toes.

Education was universal in Moorish Spain, available to the most humble, while 99% of Christian Europe was so illiterate not even the kings could read or write. In the tenth and eleventh centuries, public libraries did not exist in Christian Europe, while Moorish Spain had more than seventy, of which the one in Cordoba contained over six hundred thousand manuscripts. There were more than seventeen great universities in Moorish Spain, while Christian Europe had only two universities of any value.

Scientific progress in astronomy, chemistry, geography, mathematics, physics, and philosophy flourished in Moorish Spain. Scholars, artist and scientists formed learning societies, while scientific congresses were organized to promote research and to facilitate the spread of knowledge. A brisk intellectual life flourished in all Islamic dominated societies.

The Moors also introduced the manufacture of gunpowder into Europe, which their enemies later adopted, using this explosive to drive them back to Africa.

I think what is happening today is Americans and Europeans have been drilled into thinking that we could divide and conquer the rest of the world forever, but things changed after WWII. The world spit back at the British in particular (remember the fall of the British empire) and then the Russian Empire lost their way too. It's a sign of the times. The last great countries of the world to come out of the hack job created by the British and Americans in the middle east were Iran and Iraq. Those people too want us to go home.

In the end, I think we will have to leave there if we ever wish to see peace in the world. I don't think Muslims want to take America, I think it is the other way around, and you all damned well know it too.

Guys like kissntell (an oxymoron) only foster hate because they already put half the world population in a category that is beneath themselves. They don't want peace or freedom of religion or freedom of beliefs. They want to rebel against their own barbarous history of enslavement and genocide by pointing the finger at someone else.

I don't see a problem with what the man wants.

You need to research more into the cause and history of the 911 attacks, and a little bit of insight into controlled demolition wouldn't hurt either.

Actually, its more costly to try to take control of their oil than it is to just buy it from them.

That's true as far as the oil goes, but the 'cost" is relative. We are paying for the war with taxpayer dollars, but where is the money going? It is going into the pockets of the people who built the war machine. It is a legal way to pick the American's pockets and that is true for any other country that want's to get into the scrap. There is no better excuse to raise taxes or create massive debt (which means interest for the bankers) then to start a phony war. Don't trust my word though, just ask George and Dick.

...islamic fascists who are bent on our destructin and our leaders...

Gee, sounds like something we did to them, only difference is we backed it up with armies. All they have is a bunch of rag tag rebels hiding in caves. Do you see any armies in America? The one incident you call terrorism in the past 8 years was a single American US Army Major gone mad. Who taught him how to kill? the Muslims? Who sold him the gun? A Muslim? Who wanted to send him to go fight his religious leaders? The Muslims?

You are a deluded toy soldier kissntell. Perhaps you need to go kill some Muslims like Dick Cheney likes to kill domesticated fowl by the truck load. Just for sport.

You God Damned knuckle dragging drooling moron.

Hey, I'm just trying to keep you happy flyboy. You gotta hate somebody or your conscience couldn't live with what you did in your life. It's only human nature.

BTW...How many people did you kill, or were you one of those that doesn't know and doesn't care as long it was just following orders?

We also can't forget that Baghdad and the Euphrates River Valley was the cradle of civilization long before the Christians were around and they eventually settled in Turkey before the Christians. It's still the same old shell game, just different rulers.