Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs

Starting this week, the Freedom From Religion Foundation is sponsoring 100 ads on Seattle buses that feature a picture of Santa Claus and the words, "Yes, Virginia... there is no God." This is a play on the famous "Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus" answer to 8-year-old Virginia O'Hanlon in the New York Sun newspaper in 1897.

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Santa? Satan? Coincidence?

There is no god, but the eastern bunny really does exist!

Why would a group spend money on atheist ads? They must really have an axe to grind. If you believe in God, keep it to yourself and enjoy the satisfaction of knowing you will spend eternity in Heaven.

If you don't believe in god, enjoy life, free from trying to please some perfection freak, but why waste money on ads?

but why waste money on ads?
.....#3 | Posted by andyuhenet at

.......must have been burning a hole in their pocket.....

Listen people, it's really this simple.

If you're religious, STFU about it. Live a good life and if someone is interested in what motivates you, tell 'em about it. Otherwise STFU.

If you're not religious, STFU about it. Let others see your life and when they ask about it, explain you're not being religious motivates you to do good things.

All else is arrogance and bull shit.

In closing, STFU.

#152 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2009-11-04 01:42 AM

If you're religious, STFU about it.
If you're not religious, STFU about it.
........#5 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

.....these could be words to live by, if both sides had started at the same time, same place, with equal respect......

....however, religion has a two thousand year + head start on insinuating itself into social institutions that it should not be in.......

.....therefore the people who want to exercise their Freedom From Religion, have to do some prosetylizing to catch up.......

.....these could be words to live by, if both sides had started at the same time, same place, with equal respect......


....however, religion has a two thousand year + head start on insinuating itself into social institutions that it should not be in.......


.....therefore the people who want to exercise their Freedom From Religion, have to do some prosetylizing to catch up.......

#6 | Posted by skizziks at 2009-11-04 12:31 PM

That doesn't make any sense, lol!

The ACLU is doing a fine job of getting people freedom from religion without promoting a different set of beliefs.

The head start religion has just means there is more work to do on that front, not that we need ANOTHER annoying set of individuals spouting off like they know everything.

The problem is what?

Why is there always such a stink when religion is the form of free speech being exercised?
I do not see any difference between this and an ad for a new show on FX or USA.

Why is this even news?

Why is this even news?
......#8 | Posted by salamandagator

.....because religious people get nervous when their belief in the Tooth Fairy is challenged......

.....sort of makes the mumbo-jumbo rituals they go through feel dopey......

The head start religion has just means there is more work to do on that front, not that we need ANOTHER annoying set of individuals spouting off like they know everything.
......#7 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

......religions advertise non-stop.......all sorts of different religions......

....why not another voice for freedom- (from religion)?.......

......religions advertise non-stop.......all sorts of different religions......

....why not another voice for freedom- (from religion)?.......

#10 | Posted by skizziks at 2009-11-04 01:55 PM

Hey if you want to be more like the religious by all means have at it. Free country and all.

Hey if you want to be more like the religious by all means have at it. Free country and all.
.......#11 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

.....they are bullies with fascist tendencies.....

......always wanting OTHERS to do what they say, not what they do.......

.....the only way to keep them clear of my freedoms is to sternly inform them that they are clearly mistaken, and to keep repeating the message that they are either ignorant,gullible, hypocrites, or some nasty combination thereof.......

Its an attempt to change the Gestalt, in a society where its not OK to say, "there is no God".

"there is no God but Allah".

FTFY

"there is no God but Allah".
.......#14 | Posted by LetUsPrey

.......the Muslims are half right........

So then it's not really a big deal when black churches are burned in the South because they're just places where propaganda is spread, right?

What else would you expect from a state that just voted to allow "domestic partnerships". Oh, is that an inappropriate comment??..My Bad.

.....the only way to keep them clear of my freedoms is to sternly inform them that they are clearly mistaken, and to keep repeating the message that they are either ignorant,gullible, hypocrites, or some nasty combination thereof.......

#12 | Posted by skizziks at 2009-11-04 02:10 PM

The ACLU has accomplished more on the front of shutting christian bullying than a bunch of a annoying atheists with bus ads will ever hope to.

....however, religion has a two thousand year + head start on insinuating itself into social institutions that it should not be in.......

.....therefore the people who want to exercise their Freedom From Religion, have to do some prosetylizing to catch up.......

#6 | Posted by skizziks at 2009-11-04 12:31 PM | Reply

Funny Flag. So Atheism is a new concept that was recently discovered in Uh-merica? What a knucklehead.


So then it's not really a big deal when black churches are burned in the South because they're just places where propaganda is spread, right?
......#16 | Posted by TylerDurden

......arson is a crime.......

...the churchgoers should have the freedom to engage in their mumbo-jumbo to their heart's content......

Maybe we'll get lucky, and someday all the religious and non-religious proselytizers will get in a big war and wipe each other out. The whole world would be a better place.

a bunch of a annoying atheists
.........#18 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

......you don't see the atheists asking for weekly donations, or exemptions from paying taxes........

......they don't lecture at you every week, on a dozen tv channels begging for more & more money, asking for religion based laws to be passed, .....

......no....when you look at who is demanding what, you get a clearer idea of who is 'annoying'........


......you don't see the atheists asking for weekly donations, or exemptions from paying taxes........

......they don't lecture at you every week, on a dozen tv channels begging for more & more money, asking for religion based laws to be passed, .....

......no....when you look at who is demanding what, you get a clearer idea of who is 'annoying'........

#22 | Posted by skizziks at 2009-11-04 03:08 PM

I didn't say they were more annoying than christians, now did I?

Why would a group spend money on atheist ads?

Maybe they'd like to live in a country where they aren't the only group that can't get elected to public office.

I didn't say they were more annoying than christians, now did I?
#23 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

......no.. you did not.......

.....but calling the atheists 'annoying' for a small bus ad campaign, ......when we are constantly surrounded by religious propaganda, AND unending demand for money, AND continued tax exemptions, AND demands for religion based laws,
.....that kind of constant behavior is FAR BEYOND 'ANNOYING'.......

the eastern bunny really does exist!

I have seen plenty of rabbits out west.

There is infinite more proof for the exsistence than there is for god, any god.

Maybe they'd like to live in a country where they aren't the only group that can't get elected to public office.
......#24 | Posted by rcade

.....actually......there are some openly atheistic elected politicians........


www.michaelnugent.com


....and as this wave of bible thumping 'blue hairs' passes away....there will be more......

.....the younger generation does not believe in the way that the soon-to-expire one does.......


.....in another ten years, believers will be looked upon the way Creationists are judged today......

.....but calling the atheists 'annoying' for a small bus ad campaign, ......

#25 | Posted by skizziks at 2009-11-04 03:18 PM

Nice whine. lol!

Annoying is pretty damn mild. You're really wound up over this, aren't you?

I'm just surprised that it's apparently only an atheist that has a problem with my anti-proselytizing stance.

Atheists expect to have a busy season of "Bah, Humbug" planned this year.

Cryin won't help ya

Pryin won't do you no good.......


NNNnnnnooooooo

I'm just surprised that it's apparently only an atheist that has a problem with my anti-proselytizing stance.

Wait, were you the one who gave everybody a big universal STFU?

I'm cool with that.

Cryin won't help ya

Pryin won't do you no good.......


NNNnnnnooooooo

When the levee breaks, you got no place to go...

Might I suggest a Better play on Santa?

.....because religious people get nervous when their belief in the Tooth Fairy is challenged......


.....sort of makes the mumbo-jumbo rituals they go through feel dopey......

#9 | Posted by skizziks at 2009-11-04 01:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

Well RCADE? Muhammed's law again or what?

Flag it and you're a pussy.

-Santa? Satan? Coincidence?

Did you hear about the dyslexic Satanist?

He sold his soul to Santa.

.....in another ten years, believers will be looked upon the way Creationists are judged today......


Ah, if only we were all as intelligent as Cuz Skiz....

but then, we might also mistake our opinions on religion as facts.

WHY DO THESE MORONIC ATHEISTS FEEL SO THREATENED BY THE WORD "GOD"? "YES, VIRGINIA! THEY ARE HEATHENS" THEY ALSO ARE A SAD LOT.

Hallmark turned 'ol Saint Nick against Christians some time ago. Sorry Atheists, but you're behind the times on this one.

So, when does one become the very thing they hate?

Did you hear about the dyslexic Satanist?


He prefers to think of himself as anagrammatically challenged.

Did you hear about the dyslexic Satanist?

He sold his soul to Santa.

Is he now chained to a sewing machine in an arctic sweatshop?

WHY DO THESE MORONIC ATHEISTS FEEL SO THREATENED BY THE WORD "GOD"? "YES, VIRGINIA! THEY ARE HEATHENS" THEY ALSO ARE A SAD LOT.

God? Oh, they thought you said dog. Thanks for shouting. Now everything is cleared up.


Gal

I think I heard that joke from Mao, like 4 years ago here.... back in the Wild West days anyway. I know you had been here before I was.

Thanks for shouting. Now everything is cleared up.

Easy there... big moe is so big his posts can only be expressed in ALL CAPS!!!


Then there were the two kids who were just coming home from a Christmas play and, upon contemplating Santa and Satan, decided that Satan would prolly turn out to be just like Santa..... somebody's Dad.

Then there were the two kids who were just coming home from a Christmas play and, upon contemplating Santa and Satan, decided that Satan would prolly turn out to be just like Santa..... somebody's Dad.

This man is on a roll!

Keep em coming.

You know Santa is gonna have to turn against G-d with all of this Global Warming hoax. I am sure that Satan has a cold storage area for the brewskis and Vodka they serve on Free Friday Nights Fuck Fest. Santa can go live in cold storage and His elves can continue making toys for all the good little boys and girls.

Larry

A man bursts into his house and yells, "Pack your bags, Honey, I just won the lottery!"

She says, "Oh, wonderful! Should I pack for the beach or for the mountains?"

He replies, "I don't care ... Just get the hell out!"

And God populated the earth with broccoli and cauliflower and spinach and green and yellow vegetables of all kinds, so Man and Woman would live long and healthy lives.

And Satan created McDonald's, and McDonald's brought forth the $3.20 double-cheeseburger, and Satan said to Man, "You want fries with that?", and Man said, "Super size them." And Man gained pounds.

And God created the healthful yogurt, that Woman might keep her figure that Man found so fair.

And Satan froze the yogurt, and he brought forth chocolate, nuts and brightly colored sprinkle candy to put on the yogurt. And Woman gained pounds.

And God said, "Try my crispy fresh salad."

And Satan brought forth creamy dressings, bacon bits, and shredded cheese, and there was ice cream for dessert. And Woman gained pounds.

And God said, "I have sent you heart-healthy vegetables and olive oil with which to cook them."

And Satan brought forth chicken- fried steak so big it needed its own platter. And Man gained pounds, and his cholesterol went through the roof.

And God brought forth running shoes, and Man resolved to lose those extra pounds.

And Satan brought forth cable TV with remote control so Man would not have to work to change channels. And Man gained pounds.

And God said, "You're running up the score, Devil."

And God brought forth the potato, a vegetable naturally low in fat and brimming with nutrition.

And Satan peeled off the healthful skin and sliced the starchy centre into chips and deep-fat fried them. He created sour cream dip also, and Man clutched his remote control, and ate the potato chips swaddled in cholesterol.

And Satan saw that and said, "It is good."

And Man went into cardiac arrest.

And God sighed and created quadruple bypass surgery...

And then Satan created private health insurance ....

I lol'ed

Might I suggest a Better play on Santa?

#36 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

Yeah!
How about-instead of Santa Claus....

We call her

Samantha Claws?

MEEE-YOW!!

Why would a group spend money on atheist ads?

Maybe they'd like to live in a country where they aren't the only group that can't get elected to public office.

#24 | Posted by rcade

Religious organizations like the Discovery Institute or Focus on the Family spend millions of dollars a year on Religious Propaganda and to influence elections and to try and rewrite our textbooks. It is about time we started fighting back.

LOD regarding your STFU rant...if we do not speak out against religious intolerance then the Religious Right would turn this country into a theocracy practically in no time.

I for one refuse to let the END OF TIMES Death Cult decide the future of this country alone. I will always speak out against Religious intolerance or intolerance of any kind.

"We are not coming up against just human beings to beat them in elections. We're going to be coming up against spiritual warfare." (Pat Robertson at a 1994 Christian Coalition national strategy conference)

There has been a war going on for the hearts and minds of Americans for a long time now. The Christians think this is a Christian Nation...it even says so in the Texas Republican Party Platform.

We know however that is not true...saying it does not make it so.

Besides the Religious Zealots have had the "stump" all to themselves for thousands of years...atheists are just making up for lost time.

Funny Flag. So Atheism is a new concept that was recently discovered in Uh-merica? What a knucklehead.

#19 | Posted by slicksterSilly

Think about that for a second... until America came along Freedom From Religion was unheard of. Atheists have really only been able to speak up freely in the last 150 years or so. Atheists are not fools ... they have been around a long time and were everywhere but they could not freely admit it until recently.

so yes it is a "new concept" in that now we can at least admit it publicly... unless we are running for public office that is.

Is the goal of atheists to make us all angry bitter pricks like they are?


Is the goal of atheists to make us all angry bitter pricks like they are?

#57 | Posted by fwthom at 2009-11-04 07:21 PM |


See Thommy, atheists don't want to make you anything.

It's organized religion that is trying to make the rest of us as angry and uptight as you bible thumping idiots.

Free Will, Douchebag.

It's organized religion that is trying to make the rest of us as angry and uptight as you bible thumping idiots.


Free Will, Douchebag.

Posted by jerrytarkanian at 2009-11-04 07:54 PM | Reply ARGUES LIKE LITTLE BLACK SAMBO

Reply ARGUES LIKE LITTLE BLACK SAMBO

But yer not racist, right?

Riiiiiiiight!/snark>

Be Well.

LOD regarding your STFU rant...if we do not speak out against religious intolerance then the Religious Right would turn this country into a theocracy practically in no time.

I for one refuse to let the END OF TIMES Death Cult decide the future of this country alone. I will always speak out against Religious intolerance or intolerance of any kind.

#56 | Posted by donnerboy at 2009-11-04 06:51 PM

You're retarded. I already explained to you in another thread that I wasn't condemning speaking out against religious intolerance, but was speaking against proselytizing.

wanna know the truth about Christmas?

here ya go.

www.fuckchristmas.org


be sure to read it all....

Methinks "the Chappelle" has been exposed.

No gods
no masters.


Get over it.

I thought Trey Parker and Matt Stone turned Santa against God (Jesus is the Lord)?

I am an atheist, and like most atheists, I'd love for people to take the blinders off and embrace life without superstition, but I don't think bus ads like this one will achieve anything good for this movement. All these ads will do, I'm afraid, is inflame people and create hate. I think the efforts of groups like this foundation would be better spent on charitable work in the name of atheists, or even on late night infomercials pointing out of the defects in religious texts, instead of useless, inflammatory campaigns like this one.

"I am an atheis"

#66 | Posted by Duckman

I thought you were a duck, man!

Atheists use an make-believe character to insult the God who is clearly seen in His creation every day.

Fellow Christians, let's take our ball and go home....we can't fight this level of sophistication and logic..."we ain't gonna last 17 hours, game over!"

PLUS, it fucks with little kids heads,
embittering children AGAINST atheists.

What fools the atheists are......"the fool says in his heart, 'There is no god.'"
Psalm 10:4

"Fellow Christians, let's take our ball and go home"

I can't.

An atheist stole my ball. : (

Lisa- I've two if you'd like to play catch.

: D

Hi Alex!!!!!!

Atheists use an make-believe character to insult the God who is clearly seen in His creation every day.

Fellow Christians, let's take our ball and go home....we can't fight this level of sophistication and logic..."we ain't gonna last 17 hours, game over!"

#68 | Posted by kirk

Actually Saint Nicholas existed..your god on the other hand is a fabrication of faith and the lack of objective thinking..

#71

Oh. I just got that. And here I thought you were just being nice.

You're sassy!!!

lol

Actually Saint Nicholas existed..your god on the other hand is a fabrication of faith and the lack of objective thinking..

How can a saint exist if there is not a god? Isn't that kind of like saying there are fish when there is no water?

.....the younger generation does not believe in the way that the soon-to-expire one does.......

#29 | Posted by skizziks at 2009-11-04 03:25 PM | Reply |

skizziks,
btw I LOVE a good palindrome, thanks for the name.

You better stop all the atheists from having so many damnable abortions, 'cause it's like 2 to 1 athiests versus Christians, and parents' religious affiliation is one of the largest predictors of future religious affiliations (unless they're catholic--ha ha).

Freedom From Religion Foundation is sponsoring 100 ads on Seattle buses that feature a picture of Santa Claus and the words, "Yes, Virginia... there is no God.

I bet that will go over like a bucket of goat head soup and a gallon of gooseberry swipe.

I've two if you'd like to play catch.

You play a lot of catch, Alex?

You're sassy!!!

LOL.

I bet that will go over like a bucket of goat head

We are the weird,
We are the starvin,
We are the scum of the filthy earth,
So let's start scarfin. . .
There's a goat-head bakin
We're callin it their food,
If the Meskins can eat it,
They can eat it, too.

The rest of the song is here. It's great, even though it got Joe Bob Briggs fired from the Dallas Times Herald

www.joebobbriggs.com

ba humbug, Legio.

You play a lot of catch, Alex?

I like to pitch.

"You play a lot of catch, Alex?"

"I like to pitch."

Posted by Alexandrite

Please don't tell us your favorite is the knuckle ball.

Given the choice between a fundamentalist of any religion and a hateful atheist to sacrifice I'd kill 2 birds with one stone and sacrifice them both

So those crazy atheists are at it again?

It appears the "Freedom From Religion Foundation" has become its own form of "religion" and sure don't mind preaching to everyone else about what they think we should do. How about giving the rest of us some freedom from the "Freedom of Religion Foundation."

Now their ads include a picture of Santa Claus -- another fellow who is always "dressed in red." I wonder if on their ad the atheists' "Santa" will be sporting a pair of horns to go along with his red outfit?

If you believe in God, keep it to yourself and enjoy the satisfaction of knowing you will spend eternity in Heaven.


#3 | POSTED BY ANDYUHENET AT 2009-11-04 11:43 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

you mean like Evangelist Christians?


dont get me wrong i completely agree with you.

If everyone made this personal choice and kept it to themselves we would all be better off.

but All of the major religions are worse than Amway Salesmen when it comes to spreading the faith.

They take a No answer as a perfectly good excuse to murder, maim, and persecute.

Jesus commanded "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," Matthew 28:19

Atheists and others here opine -- Keep silent and keepyour faith/religion/beliefs to yourself.

Why would any thinking person expect Christians to ignore the former and embrace the latter?

Oh, and note that the command is to make disciples of all nations; not, make all nations disciples.

"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out." John 6:37

"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him." John 6:44

So, the witness to the Gospel by Christians is the fulfillment of Christ's command to them and the means whereby God draws all that will come to Christ. It's an aspect of this age that will continue until God, not the atheist, ends it.

"So, the witness to the Gospel by Christians is the fulfillment of Christ's command to them and the means whereby God draws all that will come to Christ. It's an aspect of this age that will continue until God, not the atheist, ends it."

Amen Mac!!

Atheists must believe in God then. Otherwise, why try to turn St. Nick against God.

You better stop all the atheists from having so many damnable abortions, 'cause it's like 2 to 1 athiests versus Christians, and parents' religious affiliation is one of the largest predictors of future religious affiliations (unless they're catholic--ha ha).
......#76 | Posted by kirk

.......religious belief is declining by age catagory.......

.......within one or two generations there will be no significant number of believers left........

......so all this palaver will become quite meaningless......

Santa? Satan? Coincidence?

#1 | Posted by LetUsPrey

Santa = Saint

.....in another ten years, believers will be looked upon the way Creationists are judged today......

#30 | Posted by skizziks

Riiiight...

Tell that to the True Believers who will be packing themselves into Ted's basement.


Santa? Satan? Coincidence?
#1 | Posted by LetUsPrey
Santa = Saint
.....#90 | Posted by ZOT

Saint = Sin At (your descretion)
Santa = Nasta (Santa from the hood)
Satan = Send More More To Ted Haggard's New Church

Tell that to the True Believers who will be packing themselves into Ted's basement.
......#91 | Posted by ZOT

......no need to waste my breath.......

.....none is so blind as he who will not see.......

St. Nickolas was a Saint under the Pagan beleif.
Prosperity. Good fortune. Good will.
Became a saint for the good works of his life, and his yule tradition, which lives today.

Long before christianity.


Atheists must believe in God then. Otherwise, why try to turn St. Nick against God.
.....#88 | Posted by BettyO

.......no, we don't believe in God.........

.....but when battling against delusional creations, we find that other delusional creations make good tools......

It is stories like this one that make PASSIONATELY hate militant atheists (atheists that are also angered by such antics are decent people, but militant atheists are low life pieces of shit).

And I have LESS faith than they do.

They can take their BIGOTED and LIE based "freedom FROM religion" and shove it up their lying asses.

It is stories like this one that make PASSIONATELY hate militant atheists.... #96 | Posted by USAF242

....if you "hate" people because of their beliefs, or lack of beliefs, or legal steps they take to promote those beliefs, or lack of beliefs......

....then get a check-up, cause you have a problem......

If you believe in God, keep it to yourself and enjoy the satisfaction of knowing you will spend eternity in Heaven.

If you don't believe in god, enjoy life, free from trying to please some perfection freak, but why waste money on ads?

#3 | Posted by andyuhenet

There's one problem with your solution. You say for those who believe in God to keep it to themselves. Well, it is very clearly stated in their religion that they are supposed to spread the word. Heck, we wouldn't even have Christianity if a few brave souls didn't spread the word back when it was very unpopular.

SKIZZIKS

You are an illiterate IDIOT.

Read my post again, and explain how it is POSSIBLE for rational non-idiot to conclude I hate them for their belief.

Because you lake the basic brain power, I'll spell it out (probably wont help, but I'll try...)

I stated hatred for militant atheists who take such ACTIONS.

I stated RESPECT for ATHEISTS who disapprove of militant atheists who take such actions.

So I hate them for their beliefs HOW????

Idiot.....

You atheists are funny. I've read several accounts from people who used to be atheists until they had a near death experience. There is something after death but it isn't like the Christians, or Muslims, or Jews, or Hindus have it portrayed. But fear not atheists, you'll end up there no matter what you believe right now. You'll just be in for one hell of a surprise.

I stated hatred for militant atheists who take such ACTIONS.
#99 | Posted by USAF242

....and I still think that you are sick......

....what reason is there to 'hate' someone who takes out a billboard ad ?......

.....there are lots of billboard ads I disagree with, including many I find objectionable , but to 'hate' the originator of them ?........

......you have more problems than 'militant athiests'.......


You atheists are funny.
.....#100 | Posted by everlong

......not nearly as funny as grown ups who still believe in Santa Claus......


This from a poster who very much sounds like he "hates" people who don't agree with him on his One Trick Pony issue of religion, and his insistence that if only everyone were as intelligent as he, they would agree with his opinions..... as that is all they are, regardless of his objections.


I stated RESPECT for ATHEISTS who disapprove of militant atheists who take such actions.
........#99 | Posted by USAF242

....so you respect someone who does NOT BELIEVE DELUSION 'A'....

.....but if this same person takes out a billboard to say I DO NOT BELIEVE IN DELUSION 'A' then you 'hate' him ?.....

.........you don't make any sense.......would you prefer that atheists hide their light under a bushel.?......

I've read several accounts from people who used to be atheists until they had a near death experience.

#100 | Posted by everlong

Yeah. The old "There are no atheists in fox holes."

who very much sounds like
#103 | Posted by Corky

......those sounds are all in your head Corky, I do not hate anyone.....

This from a poster who
#103 | Posted by Corky

......you are not even making an effort at reasoning Corky.......

.....going straight for the ad hominem attack.....

.....that is the first sign that you have found your own reasoning to be inadequate.......


I know, I know. Your only goal is to educate those less bright than yourself...... if you ever find anyone like that.

if you ever find anyone like that.
.......#108 | Posted by Corky

.....too easy......must resist......


Oh, don't hold back on my account.

You only have one trick, and it's easily exposed.

If only everyone were as smart as you, there would be no theists, right?

SKIZZIKS said

".......would you prefer that atheists hide their light under a bushel.?......"

Excellent question.

In fact, such a good question, I was forced to re-examine my original statement.

It would be improper in the extreme to expect Atheists who follow the proselytizing branch of their FAITH to not be present in the public square. That would be as stupid as getting upset over a nativity scene in front of City Hall.

Having said that.....

Being as ass about it is just plain wrong. No matter how flowery the language, militant atheists have a very hard time NOT belittling people of spiritual faith. Such militant atheists should be dragged through their own mud and beaten with their own words.

On the flip side, one can also find expressions of spiritual faith that belittle atheism, and that too is improper in the extreme. But the difference is that most expressions of spiritual faith IGNORE atheism, and most that don't ignore are in response to atheist attacks. Atheist statements of FAITH 'mostly' do so by insulting spiritual faith (not all however).

Be an atheist all you want. But if you are a prick about it, you should be treated like one.

Atheists don't have "statements of 'faith'". That's just silly.

Such militant atheists should be dragged through their own mud and beaten with their own words.

Be an atheist all you want. But if you are a prick about it, you should be treated like one.

.......#111 | Posted by USAF242

....I'm glad you've re-examined your statement, but you're revision still shows you have a problem giving the same respect you demand......

.....you want "militant atheists dragged & beaten"....this is a sign that you have personality issues to be addressed.....it's one thing to disagree with people, but to 'hate' and want to do violence to them reflects on YOU, not them...........

No gods
no masters.

Get over it.

#64 | Posted by briwo at 2009-11-04 10:33 PM

You're as arrogant as a fundamentalist christian.

Such militant atheists should be dragged through their own mud and beaten with their own words.
.......#111 | Posted by USAF242

.....you want "militant atheists dragged & beaten"....this is a sign that you have personality issues to be addressed.....
#113 | Posted by skizziks at 2009-11-05 10:59 AM

I hear that after this course on the evils of religion, Skiz will offering another on reading comprehension, followed by a quick lecture on intellectual dishonesty.

-a quick lecture on intellectual dishonesty.

We won't want to miss that one, lmao.

skizits is getting "woked" as usual.

THIS BEARS REPEATING:


SKIZZIKS said

".......would you prefer that atheists hide their light under a bushel.?......"

Excellent question.

In fact, such a good question, I was forced to re-examine my original statement.

It would be improper in the extreme to expect Atheists who follow the proselytizing branch of their FAITH to not be present in the public square. That would be as stupid as getting upset over a nativity scene in front of City Hall.

Having said that.....

Being as ass about it is just plain wrong. No matter how flowery the language, militant atheists have a very hard time NOT belittling people of spiritual faith. Such militant atheists should be dragged through their own mud and beaten with their own words.

On the flip side, one can also find expressions of spiritual faith that belittle atheism, and that too is improper in the extreme. But the difference is that most expressions of spiritual faith IGNORE atheism, and most that don't ignore are in response to atheist attacks. Atheist statements of FAITH 'mostly' do so by insulting spiritual faith (not all however).

Be an atheist all you want. But if you are a prick about it, you should be treated like one.

******************************
****

And yes, I made several statement about Atheists following their FAITH with very deberate choice of words.

I don't have ANY faith (Agnostic, I don't know if there is a God or not.)
Atheists DO have faith (They KNOW there is no "independent of the universe" spiritual aspect to creation, otherwise known as "God").

I'm an atheist. I also celebrate the birthday of Jesus of Nazareth but I'm not a christian cult-member. Just my way of expressing it. I also like a lot of what Jesus' felt and said about how to treat one another and forgive. I don't believe in the god parts...because I don't believe in the existence of God or gods. What these other atheists have done is within their right to do in this country. I think it's tacky...but, nonetheless legal. I also think this devil guy, satan, is a crock. Can't promote a good guy without his nemesis. I even have a creche I display year 'round. I think the beauty of the birth of a human being who taught so many, in such a barbaric time, to love and hope for something better of themselves, is worth paying a tribute. In the real world (and workplace) I keep my atheism to myself because deep personal beliefs should be kept within family discussions and discussing it in public has brought threats and recrimination from christians, jews and muslims alike.

-skizits is getting "woked" as usual.

He's getting lost as quick as possible as usual.

discussing it in public has brought threats and recrimination from christians, jews and muslims alike.
.......#119 | Posted by UpL8 at

......that's the way religions operate.......

.....its time to out them on their inhumane behavior.....

THIS BEARS REPEATING:
#118 | Posted by USAF242

.....repeating your rant will not make it any more correct......

......you talk about 'hate' and violence in the service of silencing people you disagree with.....

....that is wrong, anti-American, and shows that you have serious issues with respecting people who disagree with you.........

SKIZZIKS

Nice try (who am I kidding, your try was pathetic....), but you know damn well I'm dis-respecting you, and people like you, for being an ASS, not for your beliefs.

Show ANYWHERE where I've dis-respected or condemned an antheist for atheist BELIEFS. You can't and you know it.

who am I kidding
#123 | Posted by USAF242

.....only yourself........but you have done a rather thorough job.......

SKIZZIKS

You've accused me of advocating violence and/or wanting to do violence on atheists.

I challenge you to show me where. (You can't).

I hate MILITANT atheists for being asshats,
but You've accused me of hating atheists for their beliefs.

I'll stand by hating MILITANT atheists for being asshats (Pissing on crosses and then accusing the Christains of bad behavior for being upset....)

I challenge you to show where I've stated hatred of atheist for their atheist belief, even public atheism. (You can't)

This is the 2nd time I've challenged you, and so far you have FAILED to make an actual response.

I'm loving this SKIZZIKS, as you are providing a PERFECT personal example of an asshat atheist.

You've accused me of advocating violence and/or wanting to do violence on atheists.
I challenge you to show me where. (You can't).

......please read the words you wrote as posted below......

Such militant atheists should be dragged through their own mud and beaten with their own words.
.......#111 | Posted by USAF242

I hate MILITANT atheists for being asshats,
but You've accused me of hating atheists for their beliefs.

.......now it's your turn......show me where I differentiated between one kind of hatred and another ?.......

.......the fact that you are so full of hatred for a class of people who are exercising their rights, reflects more on your mental state than anything else.......normal people do not 'hate' the way you profess to.......get help........

I'm loving this SKIZZIKS, as you are providing a PERFECT personal example of an asshat atheist.

Fundamentalists worship their religion more than they worship God; while atheists tend to be intellectual narcissist who are so taken by the beauty of their own intellectual reflection that it is the only thing they can reflect on; they worship it above all else.

In short, the other side of the coin of a self righteous, narrow minded fundamentalist who has no doubts about the Truth is the smug, narrow minded atheist who likewise absolutely knows the Truth.

Though the coin's possessors think it is the ultimate treasure, in the market of free ideas in which humanity exchanges and develops intellectual, philosophical, and spiritual truths that penny will not buy you much.

But then the possessor don't really wish to exchange that coin for anything of greater worth, do they? As they believe it is the ultimate ends in itself. Thus, like misers they horde their coins like gold and admonish others for not doing likewise.

Finally, the wonderful irony of that coin, however, is that the two sides cannot comprehend a greater truth and that is they are so much alike.

I have seen many here and in the real world show me those coins. Flip it heads or tails, either way, you lose.

SKIZZIKS

In post #125 I challenged you with the following:

"You've accused me of advocating violence and/or wanting to do violence on atheists.

I challenge you to show me where. (You can't)."

In post #126 you FAILED AGAIN to back up your claim, although you did show that you CONSISTANTLY confuse aggressive debate with physical violence. By YOUR logic, you COMMIT what you accuse me.

In post #125 I challenged you with the following:

"I challenge you to show where I've stated hatred of atheist for their atheist belief, even public atheism. (You can't)"

In post #127 you FAILED AGAIN to back up your claim, although you did PROVE that you can't tell the difference between someone exercising their rights and someone being an asshat (They can overlap, but they sure aint the same). By YOUR logic if someone is dont something legal, if YOU dislike them, for ANY reason, you must be a sick individual.

KEY POINT:

You AGAIN FAIL to understand the difference between insulting someone's beliefs and disputing those beliefs.

You fail AGAIN.

Finally, the wonderful irony of that coin, however, is that the two sides cannot comprehend a greater truth and that is they are so much alike.
.......#128 | Posted by Grendel

......spoken like a true believer.......

.....who can't tell the difference between a someone who collects coins, and someone who does not have a hobby......


......but in overdoing the poetic polish, you left huge gaps in your reasoning.......

You fail AGAIN.
.....#129 | Posted by USAF242

......between my limited communications skills........

.....and your limited comprehension skills, I anticipate that we will fail again, if we try.....

......so have a good evening, and try to avoid hating anyone, it's bad for your health.....

...who can't tell the difference between a someone who collects coins, and someone who does not have a hobby......

Spoken like someone who doesn't understand the metaphor.

That's what happens when one is taken so much by the shine of one's own coin.

(The coin does not represent religion and thus the religious are ones who collect them and atheists do not as you suggest, the coin represents ideas in our pursuit of truth.)

"In short, the other side of the coin of a self righteous, narrow minded fundamentalist who has no doubts about the Truth is the smug, narrow minded atheist who likewise absolutely knows the Truth."

......you are saying that to be either a believer, or a non-believer, one must be "narrow minded", however, those two options cover every one on earth, either you believe or you don't, which would make everyone "narrow minded", including yourself......

Spoken like someone who doesn't understand the metaphor.
.......#133 | Posted by Grendel

.....you are using metaphors because the facts don't support your logic.......

If you want to talk facts, talk facts, then we can ask you to back it up if it is clear bullshit, as it seems to be.....

but in relying on metaphors, you are avoiding facts so as not to expose how shallow your reasoning is.

Well ? Bring on the facts.


...who can't tell the difference between a someone who collects coins, and someone who does not have a hobby......

Spoken like someone who doesn't understand the metaphor. #133 | Posted by Grendel

I responded to that metaphor with my own.
You did not understand it, so I will explain it you.
Some believers falsly accuse atheists of being the same as they are, just believing in a type of "atheistic religion". This has been shown many times to be false.
Believers believe that there is a god, one who usually requires some related mumbo-jumbo observances, and atheists do not believe that such a being exists. The two are not the same.
That is why I gave the metaphor, of a coin collector, and someone who does not have a hobby.
Is not collecting coins a hobby ? No, it is not.
And let us remember, it is always believers, who insult non-believers, by calling them believers.
One would think they could come up with a better insult.
Its like saying,"you are ugly, you look like me".

you are saying that to be either a believer, or a non-believer, one must be "narrow minded", however, those two options cover every one on earth, either you believe or you don't, which would make everyone "narrow minded", including yourself.....

No I am saying fundamentalists and atheists believe they have the market cornered on truth. It is reflected in the condemning and condescending attitudes they present to one another.

To be a fundamentalist means to Know.
To be an atheist means to Know.

Between these extremes lies most of us who hold faith and reason in both hands and juggle them constantly, pursing the truth but KNOWING that the truth is always elusive.

They understand and accept the power and the limits of both faith and reason and are willing to listen to all possibilities. Moreover, they recognize and accept that doubt exists as the ever present shadow of every bit of knowledge that we say we possess.

Most of that kind that I admire in the world are those who see faith and reason as complimentary rather than adversarial; they will not dismiss either out of hand, in fact they devote their lives to better understanding both.

They don't Know, they Seek.

Is not collecting coins a hobby ? No, it is not.

When was the last time a group of non coin collectors got together at a meeting, started a website or decided to spend money promoting their non coin collecting by taking ads out on the sides of buses?


One does not require a deity to have a religion. Ask the Buddhists.

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck. . .

Atheism like religions seeks to present an understanding of human beings and their relationship to the universe.


Though like all religions there are various beliefs, in general they shares these basic tenets and presents these as facts.

1) there is no God.
2) there is an objective reality
3) reality can best be explained by rational thought and empiricism.
4) there is no such thing as the soul.
5) the universe always existed and always will.
6) A human ethical system can be achieved without recourse to the spiritual or divine.
7) They provide narratives to explain the origin of the universe and human beings.
8) They hold scientific laws as unerring and constant and scientific knowledge and empiricism as the ultimate epistemology..
9) They have a select group of individuals (scientists) who endeavor to seek the knowledge of the universe and impart it to those who are unable to do so. This they do ritualistically according to a method that needs to be accepted by other believers. They seek to use this knowledge to manipulated and control their environment.

10) They believe their worldview is superior to any other.

Atheists are organized, have meetings, have financial backing support and political interests. They believe that when the world adopts their way of thinking it will be for the best. They set up websites, write literature, have scholarships, engage individuals one on one to promote and spread or convert people to their belief. They are politically active in trying to mandate their worldview.


Quack!

They don't Know, they Seek.
......#138 | Posted by Grendel

.....well take it from someone who knows......

....you can quit your half-hearted, doubting indecision, wailing and gnashing of teeth.....

......the truth is, that there is no Tooth Fairy, no Santa Claus, no Hercules, no Thor, no Zeus, no Allah, no God, no Yaweh.......

.....your journey is over......you have arrived....

#139 | Posted by Grendel at 2009-11-05 04:35 PM | Reply | Flag: props up ten strawmen

Most folks I know don't care enough about religion to call themselves atheists.

One does not require a deity to have a religion. Ask the Buddhists.

.....but one requires ceremony and belief in the supernatural.......

.......the ceremony in atheism is.....ooops...there is not one.......the belief in the supernatural....ooops , none again.......

.....you are being intellectually disnonest in equating the two.....

.....and the worst insult you can come up with to insult atheists, is that they are just like us, except they don't know it........we are not like you.....you subserviate yourself to a delusion, we do not

Atheists are organized, have meetings, have financial backing support and political interests.

.........bullshit..........

.....again, you are trying to insult atheists by calling them religious......

.....what does that say about the religious ?? that they are contemptible just by being what they are ??......

To be an atheist means to Know.

In the strictest sense, yes, but most atheists will openly tell you that they do not know anything about the existence any given supernatural entity. Supernatural claims are not falsifiable and not supported by any verifiable evidence, so they cannot be explicitly disproven or even discussed in an objective sense.

Very few atheists actually meet the definition of it. Most would be technically considered agnostic, but they do not see any reason to live their lives as if any god or gods exist. There's simply no reason for them to do so. Religion isn't an issue in their lives until it gets brought up, typically in polarized political discussions.

Most agnostics get lumped in with the far rarer "true" atheists. Like "real" atheists they generally resist the meddling of religion in secular society. Many agnostics even consider themselves atheists. If you think that these people approach the world in the same absolute terms as a fundamentalist, you're quite mistaken.

Grendel.....you make a good case for eliminating religions.
You list all the faults with religion, try to equate them to atheists, and then say that this is why atheists are wrong.
Then religions must be wrong for the same reasons.

However. We really are not like you.

How is it that you are constitutionally unable to accept that some people do not believe in god ?

#139 | Posted by Grendel at 2009-11-05 04:35 PM | Reply | Flag: props up ten strawmen


Most folks I know don't care enough about religion to call themselves atheists.

Scene: Emerald City

Me before the flaming face of the all powerful Wizard of Zat!

Zat: [Cue booming voice] The All Powerful Zat does not entertain debate or argument, Strawman. You have no brain!

Jets of Flame.

Me: Well, you see, the all Powerful Zat. I am not a strawman, I am simply on this journey seeking knowledge. . . and. . .

[Looks to the side to see this portly, silly old man pushing buttons behind a curtain being pulled over by a very large, well loved cat. . .]


Most folks I know don't care enough about religion to call themselves atheists.

exactly!

I didn't used to care much about religion but organized religion keeps trying to intrude into my life. Religious Wingnuts think that this used to be a Christian Nation and are now spending millions trying to actively rewrite history and turn America into a Theocracy.

So, now, I feel obligated to stand up against that kind of tyranny.

They don't Know, they Seek.
......#138 | Posted by Grendel

All those that wander are not lost.

In the strictest sense, yes, but most atheists will openly tell you that they do not know anything about the existence any given supernatural entity. Supernatural claims are not falsifiable and not supported by any verifiable evidence, so they cannot be explicitly disproven or even discussed in an objective sense

Empiricism is not the only epistemology available to those who seek truth.

All those that wander are not lost.

Quoting Tolkien? Donnerboy, you are okay in my book!

Cheers to you!

Empiricism is not the only epistemology available to those who seek truth.
.......#148 | Posted by Grendel

.....actually......it is.......

.....on the other hand, if you seek spiritual mumbo-jumbo, then any bullshit will do......

Atheists are organized, have meetings, have financial backing support and political interests. They believe that when the world adopts their way of thinking it will be for the best. They set up websites, write literature, have scholarships, engage individuals one on one to promote and spread or convert people to their belief. They are politically active in trying to mandate their worldview.

We really don't like meetings ...Problem is Grendel, if we don't get organized then soon we will all be living in the Dark Ages again.

Most of our secret meetings are down at the Bar (pub) though just as they have been since the Revolution began 200 years ago.


Cheers to you too Grendel!

Grendel...I would so love to see you at the meeting down at the Pub so we could to down a few pints and plan the next Revolution with you over a few games of Chess!

Skizz,

As there is junk science, there is junk religion.

I do not dismiss all of science because of a few quacks. Do not dismiss all religious seekers because of a few fools.

I don't require anyone to believe anything. I celebrate separation of church and state.

I only ask they they keep an open mind to possibilities beyond their own world view.


As Hamlet says,

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Must sign off for now.

Cheers

Grendel, here is something that I think more accurately describes most "atheists" out there. Of course, there are notable exceptions, and I'm sure this list is incomplete, but it's a start and was interesting. Grendel is in italics, me in bold.

1) there is no God.
1.) There is no evidence that any supernatural entity exists, and there is no way to evaluate claims of truth backed by the supernatural.

2) there is an objective reality
2.) There is an objective reality.

3) reality can best be explained by rational thought and empiricism.
3.) Reality can best be investigated empirically and examined by rational thought processes

4) there is no such thing as the soul.
4.) All observations have a natural basis, though human knowledge might not yet be advanced enough to explain it in its entirety.

5) the universe always existed and always will.
5.) It is possible to investigate the past and future of the universe. The past is the key to the present and future.

6) A human ethical system can be achieved without recourse to the spiritual or divine.
6) A human ethical system can be achieved without recourse to the spiritual or divine.

7) They provide narratives to explain the origin of the universe and human beings.
7.) The origin of the universe and life can ultimately be described mechanistically in terms of natural processes.

8) They hold scientific laws as unerring and constant and scientific knowledge and empiricism as the ultimate epistemology.
8.) The universe is governed by self-consistent, discoverable processes that are best investigated empirically. There is no evidence that shows empiricism is not the ultimate epistemology.

9) They have a select group of individuals (scientists) who endeavor to seek the knowledge of the universe and impart it to those who are unable to do so. This they do ritualistically according to a method that needs to be accepted by other believers. They seek to use this knowledge to manipulated and control their environment.
9.) The desire to learn, share information, and make use of knowledge is part of human nature.

10) They believe their worldview is superior to any other.
10.) Some but not all worldviews are compatible with the prosperity of the human species.

I do not dismiss all of science because of a few quacks.

.......it's good to hear that you are so well grounded......

I don't require anyone to believe anything.

.....wrong......

.......you seem to want atheists to believe that they are believers......

Grendel...I would so love to see you at the meeting down at the Pub so we could to down a few pints and plan the next Revolution with you over a few games of Chess!

I will meet you at the Prancing Pony at Bree! Tell old Butturbur, the retort crew is coming!

Speak friend and enter.

Bye for now.

Empiricism is not the only epistemology available to those who seek truth.

I'd love to talk more on this but maybe later since you're going and I'm procrastinating. Always fun to read your posts, Grendel. Take it easy.

Zombie,

Thanks for the well thought out response. I will think about your points, promise.

Must really go and make supper for the kids.

I only ask they they keep an open mind to possibilities beyond their own world view.

......yet your mind is closed to my world view.....

......yet your mind is closed to my world view.....


#161 | Posted by skizziks at 2009-11-05 05:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

You are hardly the poster to discuss open minds:



......the truth is, that there is no Tooth Fairy, no Santa Claus, no Hercules, no Thor, no Zeus, no Allah, no God, no Yaweh.......


.....your journey is over......you have arrived....


Provide the reference, what Bible are you reading? The new european faggot standard version?
......#71 | Posted by reinsurelaw


....what other kind is there ?.......


Go back to worshipping your toilet bowl you closed minded idiot.

"Go back to worshipping your toilet bowl you closed minded idiot."

Why not? Toilet bowls exist. They're not invisible. They are not silent. Which is more than you can say for the Big Daddy in the sky.

I only ask they they keep an open mind to possibilities beyond their own world view.

......yet your mind is closed to my world view.....

Just because someone has faith in something does not make them closed-minded. There's more to some believers than unquestioning adherence to dogma. You and I probably both sell a lot of decent religious people short because we assume this, or we want to get into an argument because we're on the retort and that's what you do here. Arguments are fun, but the bitterness that comes with some of them deters thought provoking conversation. Grendel has strong beliefs, but I imagine he has more of an open mind than you think.

What has been my sneaking suspicion for a long time is that this boils down to epistemology. Grendel said, "Empiricism is not the only epistemology available to those who seek truth." earlier, and whenever I get into a discussion with the more thoughtful believers it always boils down to something along those lines. How do you know what you know, and how do you know it is true?

Of course, it's a strange issue. To convince an empiricist of that statement, you must invalidate empiricism empirically. To convince a believer that it is false, you have to invalidate non-empirical approaches to truth by disproving a bunch of unfalsifiable claims. Both sides appear to have some loaded dice at this table. It has everything to do about the nature of knowledge, and those are always fun discussions.

not nearly as funny as grown ups who still believe in Santa Claus......

#102 | Posted by skizziks


Actually, many many people who have experienced a NDE have told of a being of light which most of them call God. They describe it as giving off incredible amounts of love and comfort and peace. It may not be God, but if you ask me, after what I've read from NDE accounts, I'd say there's a pretty good chance that we all emanate from this light and go back to it when we die. I've heard it described as the people feeling as if they were a part of the light and if they would have ventured into it there would have been no coming back. You believe what you want to believe. I believe the people who have been there and came back to tell their tale.

Do some reading of NDE accounts and maybe you'll start to change your mind. I was a skeptic before the hundreds of accounts that I have read. There is just no way that that many people could have had the same types of experiences upon clinical death.

"Atheists use an make-believe character to insult the God..."

lol

I bet you spiderman could beat up superman!

Empiricism is not the only epistemology available to those who seek truth.

What the hell does that mean, "seek the truth?" Godel proved some truths are unprovable (and some falsehoods unfalsifiable.) Empiricism has never claimed to be the One Path to The Truth.

Contrast that to most religions... where it's their way or the highway. Aggrandinzing, self-selecting bigotry, that's all religion is.

The fact that religions are intertwined with some very beneficial societal constructs doesn't mean society couldn't create those same institutions without G-d.

DONNERBOY said:

"We really don't like meetings ...Problem is Grendel, if we don't get organized then soon we will all be living in the Dark Ages again."

Um, I thought we got to where we are now due to the tolerant Christain society in America that believed choice of faith or lack of it was an individual decision???....

Most folks who live around me could be described as religious rednecks.

I'm HARDCORE "no faith", and they know it.

But strangly enough, as I don't give off even the slightest hint of belittling them, we get along fine......

Although I will confess I get a few invites now and then to attend church. For some reason, that does not make me feel horridly oppressed.

I'm not the least bit worried about Christains in the U.S. making intolerant laws on faith. The militant atheists, however, scare me, as the actions of the ACLU are clear sign of what they'd LIKE to do. (I do recognize that not all atheist are pleased with the Bigoted ACLU actions, thus my use of the word "militant" at times, to make it clear when I'm talking about the intolerant bigotted ones...)

Although I will confess I get a few invites now and then to attend church. For some reason, that does not make me feel horridly oppressed.-USAF242


They wouldn't be doing their jobs as Christians if they didn't ask you to go to church. That's part of the deal when one signs up with the religion. Trying to pass the word on to others.

Unless they were dyslexic, then they turned Satan against Dogs.

.......within one or two generations there will be no significant number of believers left..............so all this palaver will become quite meaningless......#89 | Posted by skizziks at 2009-11-05 09:06 AM | Reply |

You're possessed by whatever got ahold of Nietzche.

He said within 100 years Christianity would cease to exist.

100 years later TO THE DAY, a Bible society started giving Bibles away out of his former house!

Bring it!

They killed Jesus and Christians and it's never worked! Resurrection power!

Even look up the story of Saint Nicolas.

Resurrection power!
...
#171 | Posted by kirk

lol. What a fruitcake.

You're possessed by whatever got ahold of Nietzche.
He said within 100 years Christianity would cease to exist.
100 years later TO THE DAY, a Bible society started giving Bibles away out of his former house!

Because nobody would buy them.

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