Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs

The number of swine flu deaths reported worldwide has jumped by more than 700 in a week, latest World Health Organization figures reveal. More than 5,700 swine flu deaths were reported by Oct. 25, compared to nearly 5,000 the week before. The biggest rise was in the Americas where 4,175 deaths have been reported, up 636 from the week before.

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Since there is no effort to differentiate between regular seasonal flu and the h1n1, the numbers are fairly meaningless, especially considering the expectation for regular seasonal flu deaths.

The regular seasonal flu isn't as dramatic or newsworthy.

Since there is no effort to differentiate between regular seasonal flu and the h1n1,

Considering the H1N1 strain out competed "seasonal" strains months ago, this isn't surprising.

the numbers are fairly meaningless, especially considering the expectation for regular seasonal flu deaths.

No, they're not meaningless. Because you don't understand or refuse to understand why the numbers are what they are doesn't change what they indicate.


doesn't change what they indicate.

#3 | Posted by jpw


What they indicate = 'The world is coming to an end and only obssessive political polarization and fanatic deflection from social reality can save us'.

Hey. look at that bird over there in that tree. He wants to kill you. Go git the gun. See I just saved from from the reality of having to live with and face yourself for a few minutes. Don't worry, we'll come up with something else to help get you through the rest of the day.

No, don't worry about common sense or moderation of thoughts or actions. That is so old fashioned. We need some new laws and some new paranoias.

the numbers are fairly meaningless

"One death is a tragedy. A million deaths is a statistic." -- Uncle Joe Stalin

"Since there is no effort to differentiate between regular seasonal flu and the h1n1, the numbers are fairly meaningless, especially considering the expectation for regular seasonal flu deaths.

#1 | Posted by L_RContrarian "

L_RCuntrarian, you express your ignorance so beautifully. "Regular seasonal flu" is well understood by scientists. They are quite stable and predictable. H1N1 is new. No one knows how it will mutate in regards to mortality or vectors. A couple things that are known is it spreads easily and no one knows who will be the most susceptible to dying from it.

You are not very educated are you? It shows.

L_RCuntrarian, you express your ignorance so beautifully. "Regular seasonal flu" is well understood by scientists. They are quite stable and predictable. H1N1 is new. No one knows how it will mutate in regards to mortality or vectors. A couple things that are known is it spreads easily and no one knows who will be the most susceptible to dying from it.

You are not very educated are you? It shows.


www.youtube.com


Now that you've been educated, lets hear your excuse as to why you're a dumbass.

"Now that you've been educated, lets hear your excuse as to why you're a dumbass.

#7 | Posted by IraqiBukkake "

Now we have a fucktard conspiracy theorist on board.

Mistakes will be made in identification and then the process improved. To wait for everything to be perfect would mean not having a response to a serious epidemic.

Well dipshit how many people died from the Spanish Flu? Which way would you want the government to error on complacency or caution? Think long and hard mouth breather.

you never do any planning in your job do you? Work on an assembly line or something?


no one knows who will be the most susceptible to dying from it.

#6 | Posted by furio

Of course clinicians know who will be the most susceptible. The same people that are susceptible to everything else. Except the old, in this case are actually less so because many are at least partially immune to this particular virus, it having appeared in the fifties. The young, the sick, and the otherwise already weakened are always susceptible, to everything.

I'm not worried about that, that rule cannot be changed. I am worried about how people are pshychotically obssessed and self-absorbed with a virus that in the vast majority of cases is only gonna make you sick for a few days.

"Of course clinicians know who will be the most susceptible. The same people that are susceptible to everything else. Except the old, in this case are actually less so because many are at least partially immune to this particular virus, it having appeared in the fifties. The young, the sick, and the otherwise already weakened are always susceptible, to everything.

I'm not worried about that, that rule cannot be changed. I am worried about how people are pshychotically obssessed and self-absorbed with a virus that in the vast majority of cases is only gonna make you sick for a few days.

#9 | Posted by Lipzoidial "

first off they really don't know who may or may not be able to develop antibodies. Think Native Indian reaction to flu coming from Europe in the past. Second is the disease is still young and can mutate quickly into something far more dangerous. It has to be well tracked and respected.

"Patterns of fatality

The influenza strain was unusual in that this pandemic killed many young adults and otherwise healthy victims; typical influenzas kill mostly weak individuals, such as infants (aged 02 years), the elderly, and the immunocompromised. Older adults may have had some immunity from the earlier Russian flu pandemic of 1889.[26] Another oddity was that the outbreak was widespread in the summer and autumn (in the Northern Hemisphere); influenza is usually worse in winter.[39]

In fast-progressing cases, mortality was primarily from pneumonia, by virus-induced pulmonary consolidation. Slower-progressing cases featured secondary bacterial pneumonias, and there may have been neural involvement that led to mental disorders in some cases. Some deaths resulted from malnourishment and even animal attacks in overwhelmed communities.[40]
[edit] Deadly second wave

The second wave of the 1918 pandemic was much deadlier than the first. The first wave had resembled typical flu epidemics; those most at risk were the sick and elderly, while younger, healthier people recovered easily. But in August, when the second wave began in France, Sierra Leone and the United States,[41] the virus had mutated to a much deadlier form. This has been attributed to the circumstances of the First World War.[42] In civilian life evolutionary pressures favour a mild strain: those who get really sick stay home, and those mildly ill continue with their lives, go to work and go shopping, preferentially spreading the mild strain. In the trenches the evolutionary pressures were reversed: soldiers with a mild strain remained where they were, while the severely ill were sent on crowded trains to crowded field hospitals, spreading the deadlier virus. So the second wave began and flu quickly spread around the world again.[43] It was the same flu, in that most of those who recovered from first-wave infections were immune, but it was now far more deadly, and the most vulnerable people were those who were like the soldiers in the trenchesyoung, otherwise healthy adults.[44] Consequently, during modern pandemics, health officials pay attention when the virus reaches places with social upheaval, looking for deadlier strains of the virus.[43]"

This is a description of the Spanish Flu. The healthy died far more tha the weak due to the overreaction of their immune systems.

The second wave of the Spanish Flu was far more deadly than the first due to mutations.

Bukake still being a conspiracy dipshit?

I am conforted in the knowledge that Guantanamo Bay prisoners will be "offered" the swine flu shot. At least they won't die.

GoObama!

"I am conforted(sic) in the knowledge"

i86.photobucket.com

"I am conforted in the knowledge that Guantanamo Bay prisoners will be "offered" the swine flu shot. At least they won't die.

GoObama!

#12 | Posted by member2586"

This is to keep the disease from quickly spreading throughout Gitmo. I know you are fucking idiot but people are disease vectors. There are guards in prison along with prisoners. The guards interact with other people on the base. A small relatively isolated enclave can quickly get overwhelmed by a virus.

I hope to god you were born sterile.

This fucking flu was accidently released into the environment by an Austrian bioweapons lab which failed to follow proper shipping and handling procedures. The lab has close links to the USA, CIA, and FBI. The problem has been carefully documented by an Austrian journalist who filed suit in the USA. Naturally, the Government is claiming its a "national security", translation too embarrassing (and costly) to be reported let alone heard in Court. If she's right that should be 700 lawsuits. There should have been ten thousand lawsuits after three ile island,but they hever happened either. Those plaintiffs were consistently denied their day in Court.

"I hope to god you were born sterile."

No, but I have no desire to have children. You can help by contributing money to help pay for a vasectomy if you are so concerned.

"This fucking flu was accidently released into the environment by an Austrian bioweapons lab which failed to follow proper shipping and handling procedures. The lab has close links to the USA, CIA, and FBI. The problem has been carefully documented by an Austrian journalist who filed suit in the USA. Naturally, the Government is claiming its a "national security", translation too embarrassing (and costly) to be reported let alone heard in Court. If she's right that should be 700 lawsuits. There should have been ten thousand lawsuits after three ile island,but they hever happened either. Those plaintiffs were consistently denied their day in Court.

#15 | Posted by nutcase"

Which conspiracy nuts are promoting this theory?

"No, but I have no desire to have children. You can help by contributing money to help pay for a vasectomy if you are so concerned.

#16 | Posted by member2586"

You got one up on me I was certain we would have to pay to get your tubes tied.

furio,

Journalist Jane Burgermeister filed the lawsuit, with mountains of documentation.

www.naturalnews.com

Big Story????? Yet, not reported in any major media, no mention of it whatsoever from Government Officials.

Of course clinicians know who will be the most susceptible. The same people that are susceptible to everything else.

Damn near everyone is susceptible... they can be infected. Certain at-risk groups like asthma sufferers and the immunosuppressed are almost always the most likely to have complications, but occasionally this virus makes otherwise healthy people drop dead. Those victims are hard for anyone to predict. Perhaps there is some genetic quirk of the host that conveys greater vulnerability.

The point is that it's a little more difficult to predict your risk from this virus than seasonal flu. Despite the fact that most cases are mild, it is very important for public officials and healthcare providers to treat it seriously.

"Journalist Jane Burgermeister filed the lawsuit, with mountains of documentation.

www.naturalnews.com

Big Story????? Yet, not reported in any major media, no mention of it whatsoever from Government Officials.

#19 | Posted by nutcase"

Oh fuck another conspiracy nut. guess since you are left you must also be a "Truther" as well.

Burgermeister is not a scientist or anything else just a solo quack writer trying for attention who also calls herself a Christian. Tying your religion to your professional bono fides is not going to impress many people.

The problem with conspiracies is they quickly end as someone has a guilty conscious, too many people know and talk or someone squeals when the heat is on.

This dumb cunt has never done any investigative reporting.

And NaturalNews is a shit website hawking health pills and shit. If Nature produces an article on this I'll pay attention.

I fucking hate conspiracy nuts. Bunch of scizophrenic anti-social losers.

Since there is no effort to differentiate between regular seasonal flu and the h1n1...,

Swine flu has outcompeted seasonal strains. It did so over the summer in the southern hemisphere, and it has now done so in the northern hemisphere as well. For all the time LR spends on influenza threads he should already be aware of this. He would have been better served by spending more time paying attention to discussions and less time entertaining the retort with paranoid displays of willful ignorance.

the numbers are fairly meaningless

Perhaps you need to be educated on the concept of "meaninglessness," LR. It applies to the bulk of the material you post.

When someone's rant about a scientific topic is riddled with scientific inaccuracies, it is meaningless. When you make outlandish claims and consistently fail to support them with any evidence, they are meaningless. When you argue that all evidence that contradicts your claims is propaganda, it is meaningless. When you habitually do any of these things and become widely recognized as a babbling fool, you are meaningless.

there is a war on for your mind. not buying what they are selling.

www.bullshit.com

#6 furio
L_RCuntrarian, you express your ignorance so beautifully.

interesting, If I were so "ignorant", there'd be no reason for the name assassination!

Of course you hide from the actual point being made. The WHO has no interest in the scientific truth about h1n1 by stopping the process of differentiation it.

#23 zombie
way to pile on. You clearly don't know anything on the topic, jumping in to the discussion now while adding nothing to the discussion, rather jumping on the bandwagon.

#6 furio
Now we have a fucktard conspiracy theorist on board.


very transparent. if anyone disagrees with the rantings of furio, they are a f*king conspiracy theorist.

#15 | Posted by nutcase"

Which conspiracy nuts are promoting this theory?

#17 | Posted by furio at 2009-10-31 10:02 AM | Reply | Flag:


It would be very simple to post this as mainstream reported history. Nutcase, do you have it handy.


Are you that retarded Furio? Conspiracy theory? The lawsuit was filed as stated. Why don't you look it up instead of exposing your own 'ignorance'.

The headline has changed on this story. It is more in line with the intended fear being propogated.

Problem-Reaction-Solution

The illusion the 'jpw-shills' propagate is the assumption that somebody with some knowledge on a topic to be able to speak to it intelligently (perhaps even more intelligent-sounding than his detracters) must also be on the side of the truth.

Watch closely the propaganda he makes against his detractors ("sloppy", "uneducated"). While the detracters may not be as "educated", they post sources who are certainly more educated and have achieved credibility backing in the scientific community.

The illusion the 'jpw-shills' propagate is the assumption that somebody with some knowledge on a topic to be able to speak to it intelligently (perhaps even more intelligent-sounding than his detracters) must also be on the side of the truth.

Not at all.

There are some people who are skeptical and can speak intelligently on the topic.

You, however, are not one of them, although you seem to think you are. Many of the sources you link to fall in to the same boat and are usually riddled with inaccuracies and misstatements.

Watch closely the propaganda he makes against his detractors ("sloppy", "uneducated"). While the detracters may not be as "educated", they post sources who are certainly more educated and have achieved credibility backing in the scientific community.

Being more educated than you doesn't give one weight when arguing this topic considering you don't know jack shit. You just post links and quotes but don't seem to actually understand what you're posting, particularly in a broader context.

You clearly don't know anything on the topic

LR, congratulate yourself on yet another monumental demonstration of stupidity. I think I've studied virology for longer than anyone here but JPW. On every occasion that I or anyone else have given detailed explanations a line of reasoning, you ignore them and continue making outlandish, inaccurate claims.

jumping in to the discussion now while adding nothing to the discussion

Now that I look back over the thread, I see that JPW already took you to the cleaners over your blatantly inaccurate comments in #1. I'm sorry if I damaged your fragile ego by being the second person to call you out for that comment.

#31 jpw

If that was true, you wouldn't need to use your techniques of discrediting based on "sloppiness" or phrasing something not exactly right as you often do.

#32 zombie
JPW already took you to the cleaners

--posted by l_r:

Of course you hide from the actual point being made. The WHO has no interest in the scientific truth about h1n1 by stopping the process of differentiation it.

obviously among all your studies of virology, reading wasn't your strong point.

#31 jpw
You, however, are not one of them, although you seem to think you are. Many of the sources you link to fall in to the same boat and are usually riddled with inaccuracies and misstatements.

Watch closely the propaganda he makes against his detractors ("sloppy", "uneducated"). While the detracters may not be as "educated", they post sources who are certainly more educated and have achieved credibility backing in the scientific community.

Being more educated than you doesn't give one weight when arguing this topic considering you don't know jack shit. You just post links and quotes but don't seem to actually understand what you're posting, particularly in a broader context.


you've just contradicted yourself within the same post as well as proving the point I made [that you were replying to] within it! Congrats!

If that was true, you wouldn't need to use your techniques of discrediting based on "sloppiness" or phrasing something not exactly right as you often do.

LOL you truly are one delusion SOB.

I discredit you based on pointing out the flaws in your rational and the gaps (or complete lack of) in knowledge.

The instances that I've described as sloppy were not misphrasings or English mistakes. They were instances where your lack of knowledge was extremely apparent and pertinent to point out, as your final conclusions cannot stand when based on such erroneous information and/or interpretations.

This is what you do when you discredit someone, you point out why and where they are wrong.

you've just contradicted yourself within the same post as well as proving the point I made [that you were replying to] within it! Congrats!

How so?

And if stating you're an ignorant idiot is "propaganda." I suppose by those criteria, calling the sky blue is "propaganda."

How exactly has Tenpenny and Mercola gained "credibility backing in the scientific community"?

The WHO has no interest in the scientific truth about h1n1 by stopping the process of differentiation it.

The "scientific truth" about H1N1 is anything but suppressed. The virus is being studied all over the world.

This is what you do when you discredit someone, you point out why and where they are wrong.

But... but... there's this guy on youtube that says you have worms in your brain!

"The "scientific truth" about H1N1 is anything but suppressed. The virus is being studied all over the world."

Yet the administration downplayed this back in early 2009. Go figure huh?

That jump in swine-flu cases of 700 in one week, you notice they hide the number of those cases that were vaccinated with the H1N1 and died as a result of the vaccinations...

If you search you can find statistics on international websites folks, the obamanation News Media will not allow the U.S. to publish the statistics...

"If you search you can find statistics on international websites folks'

Then search and post, "doctor".

"you notice they hide the number of those cases that were vaccinated with the H1N1 and died as a result of the vaccinations..."

I'd be interested in seeing them myself.

#42 DANFORTH IT'S easy as going to GOOGLE and typing in the search window, "SWINE FLU VACCINE DEATHS" that's easy enough ain't it???

#42 LISA If you are interested in seeing for yourself then follow the simple directions and see for yourself.

I can show you more, VIDEOS OF WHAT IT DID TO A CHEERLEADER, AND OTHER TESTIMONIALS, but if you want believe this then I don't want to waste my time...

Dr...I didn't say I wouldn't believe you.

I'm genuinely curious to see.

I'm sorry if you took it as tongue in cheek because that's not the way I meant it.

The illusion the 'jpw-shills' propagate is the assumption that somebody with some knowledge on a topic to be able to speak to it intelligently (perhaps even more intelligent-sounding than his detracters) must also be on the side of the truth.

--posted by jpw
Not at all.

--posted by l_r
Watch closely the propaganda he makes against his detractors ("sloppy", "uneducated"). While the detracters may not be as "educated", they post sources who are certainly more educated and have achieved credibility backing in the scientific community.

--posted by jpw
Being more educated than you doesn't give one weight when arguing this topic

--posted by l_r
If that was true, you wouldn't need to use your techniques of discrediting based on "sloppiness" or phrasing something not exactly right as you often do.

#36 jpw
LOL you truly are one delusion SOB.

What I need to know, is this Orac speaking or one of the other three you just added today that debunks the anti-vaccine movement? Cuz in your split-personality schizophrenia thing going, it's hard to keep track of whether its sloppiness, grammar excuse or it's the raving lunacy of an ORAC that is displaced upon the messenger of the anti-vaccine movement.

The shill must be getting frustrated again. Can see it coming with a bizzare of cusswords and ranting as usual.

You shills keep dancing around the fact that way back in May they raised the pandemic level to Full Pandemic and at the same time both announced they would no longer count h1n1 cases. From that date forward, it is a pure assumption that any flu-based illness is definitely h1n1. Isn't that convenient. Any death that appears to have been flu-related is the h1n1 emergency. Wow! Not to mention any death that showed flu-like symptoms are automatically counted as h1n1 death. The media hype then goes on the lie! It is complete propaganda.

--posted by l_r
Since there is no effort to differentiate between regular seasonal flu and the h1n1...,

#22 zombie
Swine flu has outcompeted seasonal strains. It did so over the summer in the southern hemisphere, and it has now done so in the northern hemisphere as well. For all the time LR spends on influenza threads he should already be aware of this.


How do you know that? You didn't answer that question. I know the media and shills like yourself would have us believe that. If you can't tell the difference then how do you justify your statement?

#23 zombie
"Meaningless" wasn't exactly the correct word. I was speaking of the non-differentiation issue which was being overlooked on multiple postings.

Your shillness, could you please explain why WHO releases a virus to the public that has never been seen before? Does this explain how the h1n1 scare got started?

Your shillness, could you please explain why WHO releases a virus to the public that has never been seen before?

The virus evolved from strains that had previously been circulating. What kind of an idiot assumes that the emergence of a virus demands a sinister cabal of biologists to engineer it?

Thank you Zombie, JPW, others for rational and fact based postings.

#48 zombie
What kind of an idiot assumes that the emergence of a virus demands a sinister cabal of biologists to engineer it?

guess what I didn't ASSUME anything. I also didn't say anthing about a 'sinister cabal'. I took the statement from the WHO's own statement!

Now we know you are a fake!


Mock-up vaccines contain an active ingredient for an influenza virus that has not circulated recently in human populations and thus mimics the novelty of a pandemic virus. Such advance studies can greatly expedite regulatory approval.



WHO

Swine flu has outcompeted seasonal strains. It did so over the summer in the southern hemisphere, and it has now done so in the northern hemisphere as well.
#22 | POSTED BY ZOMBIEHUNTER

Only fools and shills accept government statistics at face value.

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