And Bani has probably taken all of them.

JPW is already weighing in assuming nobody is aware of his previous record on the topic. I'll post it now, so everybody is fully aware before the attacks begin.

My record of smacking your bitch ass around on these topics? Sure, post them for people to see.

How about that link showing the section of the patriot act that prohibits vaccine injury compensation?

This is his self-proclaimed expert that he used to debunk the whole anti-vaccine movement.

I stated it wasn't the best source, just the easiest one to think of off the top of my head.

And it wasn't to debunk the anti-vaccine movement, just Tenpenny.

Ask Mrs Sebelius why the WHO has already declared that they will not lower the Pandemic level for years to come?

Probably because it must become endemic before it can no longer be a pandemic.

The fear must be propagated perpetually to justify their purpose.

Or you just don't understand the terms endemic, epidemic and pandemic. Here's a hint-don't use the sci-fi definitions, they're wrong.

JPW, I won't waste any more time to argue with an exposed fraud.

You haven't exposed me as shit. You're just playing this game because you got caught making unsubstantiated comments.

As to the link, I will post the exact title of the law, as I did previously. You can go out and find the fact for yourself

You lose.

If you can't post information to back your assertions they're worthless. You could even post a link talking about the section, anything that says YOU are not the only person who believes what you state. You've failed to do so.

as you could have previously when I posted it instead of placing the onus on me distracting the bigger issue

It's not up to me to fact check your statements and assertions. I asked you to back up your BS and you failed to do so and have dodged it since.

when the larger questions were being asked of you and your legitimacy.

If your basis for questioning my legitimacy is based on your opinion only and you have nothing to back your assertions, then my legitimacy isn't really in question.

Everything I post here is based on real scientific literature and experimental evidence. Yours, conspiracy theory and misstatements of or misunderstandings of the science behind vaccination and infectious diseases in general.

Anyone else who wants the other links in Drudge, I could link to it. Alternatively, use the same keywords in Drudge search to find three other threads

Just admit you're wrong you pussy. It doesn't hurt, I promise.

JPW already knows them well.

Yes I do. I know they'll find the same BS they've become accustomed to from you. Assertions without backing and sloppy thinking based on a lack of knowledge.

While dinning out tonight with friends, the dinner conversation turned the the subject of the H1N1 vaccine and vaccines in general. One of the woman mentioned that she will not have to worry about contracting the flu this year, her chiropractor had given her an adjustment to boost her immune system. Now there is a hoax if I ever heard of one.

There was a local chiropractor here (who went by Dr such and such to disguise the fact they were a chiropractor) who gave an anti-vaccine talk that basically boiled down to a misaligned spinal column being the root of all illness. Unfortunately I was unable to go but a few of my co-workers went.

I felt ill after hearing the recap. I never realized chiropractors could be so loony.

Every patented drug is ushered in as a "save all" pill or injection.

Usually by the media, which is terrible at science reporting in general.

Inhalants not with standing can reduce the spread of the virus? Humm.... I can think of the spread of say, "AIDS" or Hep C?

What?

When I saw the title, I thought it was about the bogus flu vaccine.

Bogus in what way?

If the general public knew about the effectiveness of Vitamin D in preventing and ameliorating symptoms of cold and flu, poison pimps like Zombie and JPW would have to find another line of work.

LOL no we wouldn't. There would just be an initial upsurge in people being sick as hell like normal and then those same people would hopefully realize that Google is not smarter than doctors and scientists.

Forget google, you've got Orac!

Yup.

Plus Pubmed, Fields Virology, Medical Microbiology ect ect.

Wow, Ray, you have officially graduated to the prime example of how a little bit of knowledge can be dangerous that I know of.

Starchy and sugary foods are magnets for pathogens.

You act as if pathogens are a single, homogenous group of bacteria or something that all behave the same. High sugar allows for high bacterial growth PERIOD.

Poor digestive systems accumulate waste in the lower intestinal tract that stay there for years, providing a breeding ground for pathogens which leak through the walls.

Gut ecology is not that simple. There's a balance between normal bacterial flora and pathogens. Your normal flora act as a defense against pathogen invasion in some cases but not in others. As for "leaking" through the walls, this is not anywhere close to true. Pathogens invade the tissues underlying the intestinal walls by using specific methods they've evolved which allow them to be pathogenic.

Reseeding our GI tract with probiotics has proven to be of help.

Probiotics is a new and extremely young and incomplete science. We are only beginning to understand the complexity of gut flora and how it functions so probiotic usage is still somewhat of a guessing game.

Honest scientific inquiry would require an investigation into every stage of illness including how pathogens break through our immune defenses.

LOL you commenting on honest scientific inquiry.

As to your point, there is tons of work done on how they "break through our immune systems." It's called pathogenesis.

I've concluded that you are a hack.

I'm crushed.

If you were intellectually honest, you might start with the information Mercola.com provides and see if you can verify his claims.

If you were intellectually honest you wouldn't be demanding that others determine the veracity of information that supports your argument.

I can't believe I'm saying this to you again, Ray. For someone who claims to be good at critical thinking you don't seem to understand that part of that is backing your own arguments, not making them and then depending on the other person to verify the facts themselves.

Besides, why would I go to the website of a "Dr" who does nothing but attempt to discredit modern medicine so people will buy his shit. I have no reason to trust him.

Rockwell.com posts the works of Bill Sardi who provides references to his research. You can check them out.

First of all, it's Lewrockwell.com. Not exactly the best source for scientific information.

Second, most of the sources used in the columns I've read there are popular media or books, not peer-reviewed research.

If I remember correctly, I completely deconstructed a lewrockwell.com column written about swine flu and you had nothing to say in response.

But you rather smug and arrogant, so I know you won't.

Ray, you know I've read stuff you've posted. I remain unconvinced.

I try to keep my posts simple without going into a lot of detail. It's just like you to promote that as ignorance.

Well then don't on these threads. If you have information that you're holding back that's pertinent, provide it. Otherwise, yeah it does look like ignorance, seeing as I can't read minds.

I have no respect for you.

Again, I'm crushed.

The Natural Foods industry has been decades ahead of establishment medicine for as long as I remember.

You continue to say this but don't provide any information. Post some stuff showing the efficacy of natural remedies.

And every cent is aimed towards patentable remedies

No, most is conducted in publicly funded academic labs with no end goal for marketability. Can private industries take those findings and apply them to produce a product. Absolutely, it happens all the time.

when natural remedies are just as or more effective - without side effects.

Again, start posting the information. You continue to make this unbacked assertion and get pissed that no one believes you.

And no, your own anecdotes don't count.

You're deluded. Mercury and aluminum are toxic at any dose. Just because you can't find evidence, that doesn't mean it's not hidden somewhere in a metabolic process not completely understood.

So basically what you're saying is there's no evidence to suggest aluminum and mercury are toxic at any dose, yet you know it to be true.

Interesting, coming from a self-professed expert in critical thinking.

Also, vaccines do not contain mercury, they contain thimerosal. Big difference.

Especially when injected into the bloodstream, bypassing the immune defenses in the GI tract.

Vaccines aren't injected into the bloodstream, they're injected intramuscularly. Even then, your immune system does not play a role in preventing your GI tract from absorbing "toxins," you absorb many of them just fine (ie mercury from fish). That is the reason you have a liver, to remove the toxic substances you inevitably ingest so they can be excreted.

Besides, it's a needless risk when natural methods can build up our immune defenses.

Which you've yet to back with information, despite the claim of it being supposedly quite bountiful.

The non-shills who don't answer to big pharma in the science community put this out.

LOL

Yeah those big pharm boys really keep academic scientists on a tight leash. It's a good thing for Big Pharm that academic scientists are so dumb they don't demand more money to stay quiet and not spill the beans on the racket Big Pharm has been running for years.

And I'm assuming non-shills=anyone who agrees with you?

You name one of the long list of toxins and justify it by saying the dose is so low. Get a clue.

Except dose IS important to anyone with any capability of understanding this complex topic.

As if your little science explanations is going to change anyone's mind.

Yeah, fuck science. It's much more fun to just make shit up.

Why don't you tackle formaldehyde moron? Yeah, I'll put the stuff they use to embalm dead people into my body. Sounds reasonable to me.

Easy. All living things produce formaldehyde by normal biological processes. You yourself, right now, have formaldehyde in your blood.

H1N1 is a poor excuse for a pandemic.

What exactly then do you think constitutes a pandemic?

Personally I'm glad my family didn't get vaccinated. We all caught it and it wasn't as bad as the seasonal flu.

Was it confirmed as Influenza A or did you just get a "flu?"

Rather build the antibodies that way instead of the ones grown in a lab.

When you get a vaccine you're not getting antibodies grown in a lab. You're getting deactivated virus so your body can make the very same antibodies it does during infection absent the actual disease.

We've gone over that a hundred times and you dismiss every source I give you.

I've read articles you've posted and we've discussed them. Some I've dismissed, others I've read and taken with a grain of salt.

You seem to be under the impression that all information is equal. It's not. There is different levels of quality to sources and information that one must be aware of depending on the situation.

A lewrockwell.com column citing popular media and books is not going to carry much weight in a scientific argument. It can raise provocative ideas, but the content will certainly be taken with a grain of salt.

I explained in more detail in #64.

And your #64 is true until you get to the last line where you decide to insert your conspiracy theory crap.

However, it doesn't explain away your assertion that aluminum and mercury are poisonous at any dose. Pathology can still exist before a physical manifestation is seen (ie motor loss), you just can't biopsy human brains periodically to ensure lesions aren't forming.

Try finding animal studies on aluminum and thimerosal exposure. There will probably be tissue sectioning and pathological investigations conducted before any physical manifestations occur.

Unless you can show evidence of hormesis in small doses, toxicity is in proportion to the dose.

Not true. Toxicity is not linear and will depend on the mechanism by which it causes damage.

Don't confuse scientific thinking with critical thinking.

Most of being a scientist is thinking critically, so scientific thinking and critical thinking is pretty much synonymous.

Yo're a parrot. You're not on my level.

LOL thanks for the laugh.

No. Like you, they practice what they were taught without critically examining what they are doing. They accept the mortality and morbidity statistics on the grounds they are working towards a greater good. It's religion veiled as science.

You speak as if you actually understand what goes on in the scientific community.

From where I sit, it appears as if you don't have a clue how science works and what goes on in academic institutions, you just have bitter excuses and rationalizations for why your ideas don't seem to pass muster with anyone else.

The proper goal for the health industry is Prevention. Alas, since it is ignored,

What do you think vaccines are for, Ray? The whole thing is about prevention.

You act as if no doctor has ever told you to eat right or exercise frequently and that you've caught on to some hidden or suppressed idea. You haven't, Ray, trust me.

Americans are getting sicker longer and more dependent on poisons that only appear to cure because they alleviate symptoms.

Yeah, and it probably has something to do with the fact that in general we are fat fucks who exercise little to none and eat like shit.

Eventually the poisons cause permanent damage.

I don't deny that in some cases this does occur.

However, if you have suggestions on how to prevent or fix chronic illnesses where this is the case, I'm sure the medical establishment wants to know, just make sure you have better info that lewrockwell.com.

You would evaluate that statement as finding no evidence or symptoms within an acceptable threshold. They are well documented in the pharmaceutical literature.

No, I would evaluate that statement as just plain false since you're stating a rational for drug design that to the best of my knowledge doesn't exist.

Drugs are designed to be as specific as possible at as low a dose as possible. Side effects will inevitably arise given the fact that you're fiddling with a complex system and that you can't ever be completely specific.

But as I've noted, serious side effects can and do show up years or decades later when they can't be traced to the medicine that caused them. Or sometimes side effects appear coincident with the medicine, and no causal link can be found.

Then how can you say the damage is caused by the drug? You can't for sure.

You of all people should show more respect for how complex our bodies are.

I absolutely do, which is why I understand that drugs are designed to perform a task as specifically as possible but that fiddling with a system as complex as our bodies will inevitably result in side effects. Attempts to limit side effects aren't to hide damage caused by the drug, it's because they're undesirable.

Wrong! I've been picking you apart, but you are too dull witted to notice.

You haven't picked apart shit. You continue to make unsupported assertions in rebuttal to my calling your assertions unsupported.

I'm tired of telling you that Bill Sardi cites his sources from research literature.

I'll look him up. I've been sent several columns from lewrockwell.com about swine flu and they've mostly cited popular literature, but I don't remember if he's the author.

This site is the most extensive. Feel free to peruse. But last time I provided a link, you dismissed it right away

You posted a specific column from that site on generic drugs and natural source providers not being allowed by the FDA to sell their products.

I read it. We talked about it. I don't recall dismissing it, just taking it with a grain of salt due to the financial motives of the authors.

I think we're in a catch-22. I can't prove to you that disease is preventable by natural means because you dismiss sources and ideas you are not familiar with.

I don't dismiss anything because I'm unfamiliar with it. I'd never learn anything if that were the case.

I dismiss things that are blatantly biased or have been shown to be poor sources of information in the past (mercola et al) or sources that display glaring issues with understanding or misrepresent the biology behind the topics (natural news).

LOL!!!

Yes, your Galileo complex is quite funny.