Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs

In another sign of economic recovery, U.S. companies are planning to hire and invest more in the near future, according to a survey released Monday. The National Association for Business Economics said the number of employers planning to hire workers over the next six months exceeded the number expecting job cuts for the first time since the recession began in December 2007.

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We'll see.

I don't want to jinx things, but the company I work for has had a few very large orders pushed in our direction. Hopefully, we'll get quite a lot of business in the coming months and we can hire some of the folks who keep coming in looking for work.

We are still going in the wrong direction. I am wondering if people are not going to their doctors right now because doctors and insurance companies have become so vilified by the media. When we go marketing, every doctor's office we goto is empty.

I went to the doctor last Tuesday, and the place was packed.

Regardless...we're not in the midst of a recovery until people are actually being hired back to work. "Intending" to hire isn't hiring.

So many people are taking one extreme or another concerning the end of the recession. It's difficult not to call them all suckers.

I'll just keep doing what I normally do while hoping things work out for the best, but history has demonstrated that our representatives don't learn anything. If a recovery occurs, we'll be back in this situation, or one similar, in a matter of years.

To me, it's too late to fix.

It has to look brighter after you hit rock bottom. Up is the only place left to go.

Ax,
Where do you live, because in South Florida, we are amazed and scared out of our minds at how empty every waiting room is. You can see a doctor to have something looked at on Monday and have the operation to remove it Wednesday things are so slow down here.


We are still going in the wrong direction. I am wondering if people are not going to their doctors right now because doctors and insurance companies have become so vilified by the media.

#2 | Posted by kanrei

If you have a huge deductible and know you can't exceed it this year, I'd wait until the beginning of next year.

#4 | Posted by KBM

Not when Obama is "Destroying The Economy" like that guy who is trying to buy NFL teams say.

Which way you going to have it today?

Wis,
In South Florida, most deductibles are finished with by now. For the last 10 years, we have exploded in November and December with appointments from people wanting to get the test done before their deductible came back. This year- the phones are silent.

Kanrei,

I live in the eastern part of South Carolina. I think it depends on the office, maybe.

I've taken a few co-workers to Doctor's Care to have minor injuries taken care of in the recent months and the place is empty save the few folks looking for urgent care or flu shots.

OB's are busy I hear. ENT, GP, Gyno, Dental, etc are all dead.

For example, I had a dental appointment last week at 1pm and I saw the dentist at 1:05. That never happens. There are usually 6 people scheduled at the same time as you and you will generally see the doctor around 2:15 if your appointment was for 1.

You have a crappy dentist Kanrei.

6 at a time is Standard Operating Proceedure in most Medical offices. You know at least 2 will not show up and the other 4 usually only takes about 15 minutes each, so it makes sense. My Dentist rocks- this is coming from someone who hates dentists and feels everyone of them is a closet Sadist.

I guess things are different out here. I never wait. Just show up on time and walk to the back.

Miami is a different animal than every other city in this country.

I'll bet that those same companies who expect to hire, didn't forsee the first decline.

As I've said often and everybody ignores. America has accumulated levels of debt that are impossible to pay off. There will not be a recovery until that debt is liquidated. All those massive injections of money did was temporarily slow down the rate of decline. We have not seen the worst of this depression.

Bitch at me. Scold me. Tell me I am wrong. Call me unamerican. Say I hate America. And you will be proven wrong.

#15 | Posted by kanrei

Which is why I didn't cry when I left.

Bird Avenue ring a bell?

Bird Road =D I live near there.

Bitch at me. Scold me. Tell me I am wrong. Call me unamerican. Say I hate America. And you will be proven wrong.

#16 | Posted by Ray

*Yawn* You're an unrecognized genius, Ray. How's that?

Talent deserving of more recognition?

*Yawn* You're an unrecognized genius, Ray. How's that?
#19 | Posted by nullifidian

A ten year old could see what's coming.

my company is hiring

has been the entire time.

"America has accumulated levels of debt that are impossible to pay off"

my company also has ZERO debt.

A ten year old could see what's coming.

#21 | Posted by Ray

Somebody go out and grab the nearest ten year old, ok? He would probably beat 1400's prognosticating skills.

Easy Klifferd. I used to point out those same facts about my company. We are experiencing the same positive direction.

but nobody wants to hear that stuff when it's seemingly easier to wallow in the mud

my company also has ZERO debt.
#23 | Posted by klifferd

Well good for you. America has $57 trillion in debts on a $12 trillion GNP. And that doesn't count leveraging, derivatives and federal unfunded obligations.

Somebody go out and grab the nearest ten year old, ok? He would probably beat 1400's prognosticating skills.
#24 | Posted by nullifidian

The economy is not recovering and the stock market is still in a major downtrend, dumbass. We'll be lucky if we don't have a complete breakdown.

Stick to something you know, like marijuana.

my company is hiring

has been the entire time.

#22 | Posted by klifferd at 2009-10-26 03:08 PM | Reply | Flag


Not that I want to be a bug in your ear but it seems strange how your company hasn't managed to fill the positions.

Suspect that minimum wage hauling cement bags isn't attracting too many people huh!?

I used to point out those same facts about my company. We are experiencing the same positive direction.

but nobody wants to hear that stuff when it's seemingly easier to wallow in the mud

LOL!

The sweet and sour great dane solipsing down memory lane acting like he's such a positive guy.

but nobody wants to hear that stuff when it's seemingly easier to wallow in the mud

see what I mean...

Suspect that minimum wage hauling cement bags isn't attracting too many people huh!?


The sweet and sour great dane solipsing down memory lane acting like he's such a positive guy.

now it's an "act" that I've been positive?

Geez Money, you don't always have to take the low road.

my company also has ZERO debt.

There's only one company I know like that.

dollar general.

You work in the back or do you run a cash register?

see what I mean...

NO I don't, you totally avoided the meaning....why is it they are still hiring if there is so money people looking for work.......hmmmmmm, doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the wage level.

actually MW, companies are hiring people that are employed right now. The best people in the industry didn't lose their jobs. They satg tight and waited for things to stabalize. Now that that is happening, they are looking and changing where they work.

We call it "Executive Musical Chairs" in the industry. And that is exaclty what is going on right now.

But, they change companies, develop strategies for growth, hire managers, generate business and hire employees.

And that's the way it works. It's why employment numbers lag behind the recovery.

KANREI I don't have any way of knowing, of course, but I have considered and I have spoken to others who have considered that with the Swine Flue epidemic the last place on Earth we want to be is a doctor's office or a hospital. Also, I've noticed just in the last six months the opening of many clinics at Walgreens,etc. and I wonder if many people aren't going there in stead of their doctor's offices. That's just my input, not, by any means, an evaluation of the situation.

"The economy is not recovering and the stock market is still in a major downtrend, dumbass. We'll be lucky if we don't have a complete breakdown."

Hear me Lord, I pray. There are so many who would cheer for a complete economic catastrophe just to prove they were right. It's sad and it's foolish, we have a HUGE economy and it is a very resilient economy. The chances of us having a complete breakdown are very remote and we have many options to prevent any such breakdown from ever really happening. Even our richest, greediest parts of the economy don't ever want to see that happen and will, if necessary, finally cooperate in efforts to make our nation viable and I don't care what the defeatists have to say about it. They are wrong now, they have been wrong every single time in the past.

Hear me Lord, I pray. There are so many who would cheer for a complete economic catastrophe just to prove they were right. It's sad and it's foolish, we have a HUGE economy and it is a very resilient economy.

I'll be cheering when you lose your job. You're among the deserving ones.

"I'll be cheering when you lose your job. You're among the deserving ones."

Thanks Ray, you're a real sweet heart.

I'll be cheering when you lose your job.

Sounds like moneywar. How can someone wish ill on another person and pretend to be a human? What an asshole

Goat

Danni is a special case. Comments like this outrage me and she knows it.

"There are so many who would cheer for a complete economic catastrophe just to prove they were right. It's sad and it's foolish, we have a HUGE economy and it is a very resilient economy. "

'This doesn't look good...'
-The Reich

Hope that positive sign continues-- it may be a slow road back-- Ray may have some legitimate points but noone really knows how this is going to play out-- a lot of companies have stabilized but only by cutting costs and people. Hiring will probably be a long laborious process and if we're lucky and no unexpected shocks occur we may get out of this in 10 years--- as long as Washington doesn't come up with policies that fall under the ultimate "law of unintended consequences." Our company didn't layoff and doesn't intend to although, we spent a lot on a software system-- will increase our productivity by 30-40% and won't need to hire for awhile.

"Danni is a special case. Comments like this outrage me and she knows it."

But RAy, why should an entirely accurate statement enrage you???
does it make you angry that the American economy is so huge that it not only can but is withstanding the effects of Reaganomics???
Does it enrage you that we actually can and probably will save our economy and remain the world's preeminent economy????
Are you so invested in defeat for America that you won't be able to enjoy our almost inevitable return to the center of the world economy. China is growing but they are not even close to overtaking the United States no matter how many defeatists like you hope they will in order to fulfill your ideological beliefs.

Danni,
That is all possible. My office is 100% referral based, so if people are going to Walgreens instead of a doctor, then they can't get a prescription to have a sleep study and my lab is empty.

My office is 100% referral based, so if people are going to Walgreens instead of a doctor, then they can't get a prescription to have a sleep study and my lab is empty.

#44 | Posted by kanrei at 2009-10-26 10:07 PM | Reply | Flag: snake oil salesman

#44 | Posted by kanrei at 2009-10-26 10:07 PM | Reply | Flag: snake oil salesman

AKA jew.

(ducking)

Not playing tonight guys, but I do appreciate the game.

It's a joke, kanrei.

I hardly ever get to blog drunk since I don't normally do it from home, but the pain meds from my hernia repair a couple of days ago with the tequila I was warned by my doctor not to have with the medicine have me being naughty. LOL

I know Goat. I would normally play back, but I am honestly scared out of my mind that I may be unemployed within two months if things to change soon.

Is snake oil salesman anti-semitic?

I didn't know that.

Is snake oil salesman anti-semitic?

No, but what I did with it in #46 is. It was a cheap shot on my part, I admit. As I said, I blame it on the meds and tequila.

I would normally play back, but I am honestly scared out of my mind that I may be unemployed within two months if things to change soon.

Don't worry. I gather you are in the medical profession in S Florida. I can't think of any job more secure. Sure, it may be slow now, but these old folks can hold back their aches and pains for only so long.

Seriously, don't fret. Medicine = sick people = old people = S Florida. You'll pull through.

No more trolley boy stuff from Kanrei?

Too bad for us.

Do what you have to in order to stay employed.

No more trolley boy stuff from Kanrei?

Please don't say "trolley boy" (even though it's not directed at me) or I will have to start hating you, HC. You sound like woke. LOL

The company I work for is generally a little ahead of the economy overall in feeling hits in our revenue but we are also a little ahead in recovery. We increased our work force about 2 months ago for the first time since early to mid 2007. I imagine many of clients will begin to do the same in Q1, Q2 next calendar year.

All lies and smoking mirrors, now yesterday, today, and tomorrow....
All lies and smoking obama mirrows, now today, yesterday, and tomorrow....

WHEN IS THIS LYING OBAMA ADMINISTRATION GOING TO FESS UP AND TELL THE TRUTH TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE????????????
LYING SORRY SSOBS

The economy will recover, it won't recover as well as it would without the Obama Administration. But it will recover.

Stimulus' big boost to the economy? It already happened.

Please don't say "trolley boy" (even though it's not directed at me) or I will have to start hating you, HC. You sound like woke. LOL

#54 | Posted by goatman

I should have put that in quotes. I admit it made me laugh. I won't use it again.

We will have to see on this one, unemployment is at an all time high, and rising...

"unemployment is at an all time high"

Well, that's a bald-faced lie.

What, never heard of The Depression? Check 1933 if needed.

Well, that's a bald-faced lie.

No it's not.

Dipshit.

"The Depression" was 70+ years ago.

Unemployment is at an all-time high.

Deal with it.

Yeah right;

Unemployment capped right at 8% just like B.O. and the rest of the idiots in D.C. said.

No chance in hell these idiots know what the hell is going on, how all of this will play out, or how to effect the pace.

They are flailing in the dark...

"The Depression" was 70+ years ago. Unemployment is at an all-time high"

Once again, Mao's argument relies on readers ignoring silly things like facts and definitions, and instead listening to him.

24.9% in 1933.
www.econlib.org

I'll be cheering when you lose your job.

Sounds like moneywar. How can someone wish ill on another person and pretend to be a human? What an asshole

#39 | Posted by goatman at 2009-10-26 09:34 PM | Reply | Flag


Wow! A right fine fellow goatman is!

Wow! A right fine fellow goatman is!

I'll second that.

Once again, Mao's argument relies on readers ignoring silly things like facts and definitions

And once again your argument relies upon readers conflating contemporary, real world data with 70 year old factoids that have little relevance to modernity.

Unemployment is at an all-time high.

Deal with it.



"And once again your argument relies upon readers conflating contemporary, real world data with 70 year old factoids that have little relevance to modernity. "

Yeah...that would be the "all-time" portion.

And once again, your argument relies upon readers believing you, over -- for example -- the encyclopedia.

Deal with it.

For the record:

Population in 1933 was 125 million
Population in 2009 is over 300 million

Unemployment percentage was higher in '33, but there are more unemployed today with a lower percentage.

1 point each to DANFORTH and JAK SE MAO

Unemployment has always been stated as a percentage. Pretending otherwise is a pretense. That's like saying tax cuts increased revenue during the Bush years, and not factoring in inflation, because you just want to express it in nominal dollars, instead of real dollars.

Without a clarification that you've changed the terms of expression, both claims will get you flunked out of Econ 101.

Yeah, its brightened for Washington Bureaucrats and public employees in all the states receiving so called stimulus packages. Hell with the private sector. They just pay all the bills.

*Yawn* You're an unrecognized genius, Ray. How's that?

----------------

Tell of the day.

But RAy, why should an entirely accurate statement enrage you???
does it make you angry that the American economy is so huge that it not only can but is withstanding the effects of Reaganomics???
Does it enrage you that we actually can and probably will save our economy and remain the world's preeminent economy????
Are you so invested in defeat for America that you won't be able to enjoy our almost inevitable return to the center of the world economy. China is growing but they are not even close to overtaking the United States no matter how many defeatists like you hope they will in order to fulfill your ideological beliefs.
#43 | Posted by danni

It would be like scumbags like you to project how you think on the way I think. I've been warning people for years to protect themselves. The underlying fundamentals have only gotten worse. Your're ideas are completely contrary to the law of markets and doomed to failure.

Seeing that there are so many socialist parasites in this country like you who know not a wit about how capitalism works, and who have spent a lifetime trying to destroy it, and seeing that that you parasites have finally succeeded in destroying the host, I took the measures I had to take to protect myself from the financial destruction you and your ilk brought about.

You never saw this coming when it was obvious to me and you can't see what's coming next. Socialists will never get my sympathy.

No more trolley boy stuff from Kanrei?

I am still a troll, you don't get off that easy. I was just in a funk last night. Still in one today, so I may take today off too, but I will not stop trolling. It is my hobby.

I was just in a funk last night. Still in one today, so I may take today off too...
#73 | Posted by kanrei at 2009-10-27 09:16 AM | Reply | Flag: That time of the month

Ray,

Do you actually have any clue how the richest people in this country make their money at the public trough?

You could provide free health care, room and board for entire child and adult unemployed population for what hs been wasted in Iraq, which is an order of magnitude less than the bailout, which was done in one week.

Wall Street is the "The Royal Scam", leaches destroying workers for a short term gain, as they dismantle our manufacturing base and import workers.

Just another reason why you should not watch the Communist News Network...Job Outlook Brightens?

"Oct. 22 (Bloomberg) -- More Americans than forecast filed claims for unemployment benefits last week, a reminder that the labor market will be slow to recover.

Initial jobless applications rose by 11,000 to 531,000 in the week ended Oct. 17,"

AND

"Foreclosure rates will climb through late 2010, peaking only after the unemployment rate reaches 10.2 percent in the second quarter, Jay Brinkmann, chief economist at the Mortgage Bankers Association, said this month.

Unemployment, which is projected to exceed 10 percent by early 2010, according to the median estimate in a Bloomberg survey earlier this month, will also limit demand. Economists and industry groups are among those projecting home sales will also cool in the absence of the $8,000 credit for first-time buyers, due to expire Nov. 30. Lawmakers are debating extending the credit.

AND

" WASHINGTON US consumer confidence fell sharply in October amid growing worries about rising unemployment and job security in the recession-wracked economy, the Conference Board reported Tuesday.

The private research firm's consumer confidence index declined for the second month in a row, to 47.7 in October from a revised 53.4 in September. The September reading initially was reported at 53.1.

The October index drop was much steeper than expected by Wall Street, with most analysts expecting a 53.5 reading."

Instead of carrying the water for the Whitehouse and the Dems it would be good if it reported the truth every now and then

Reed Construction Data (RCD) announced recently that the year-to-date value of construction starts through September 2009, excluding residential contracts, totaled $184.7 billion, 12.8% less than in the same period in 2008. Individual month of September starts were 20.1% lower than in August so the September decline was about 7% after seasonal adjustment.

A new day is acummin. Praise little o, the savior.

I'm in a few hiking and outdoors clubs, and can't get over how many are unemployed or underemployed. All my clients are business owners, and none of them plans to hire anytime soon, but with only a couple of exceptions, they have cut to where they can hang on for a good while longer. Hopefully it all turns around soon, there are so many people hurting.
I'm skeptical though. Business is so accustomed to financing expansion through debt, as opposed to cash flow. And nobody is lending, except to AAA-rated companies, and owners are reluctant to borrow anyhow. In the end, this is healthy, but it's likely there's still a good bit of pain left to come.
We'll see though.

Do you actually have any clue how the richest people in this country make their money at the public trough?

Some earn it honestly and some steal by legal means. It's important to know the difference because it is the honest rich that create jobs and the dishonest rich who destroy jobs.

You could provide free health care, room and board for entire child and adult unemployed population for what hs been wasted in Iraq, which is an order of magnitude less than the bailout, which was done in one week.

If only that was all. Socialists never know when to stop.

Wall Street is the "The Royal Scam", leaches destroying workers for a short term gain, as they dismantle our manufacturing base and import workers.
#75 | Posted by nutcase

Those are the crooks protected by law. As long as you empower government, you empower the're corporate cronys.

Ray, the crooks protected by law are LEACHES along with thoes who write the laws that make it possible.

Absolutely, Sniper

Anybody who thinks government is going to rescue the general public from corporate corruption is a fool. But let's not stop there. Because voters continue to elect the same politicians, commonly for reasons of their, the voters, own greed. I see no remedy for this until the whole mess collapses from the weight of corruption. This is another reason why I know this Depression is going to get much worse than the depression of the 30s.

OK

OK, but why waste our limited resources on narrow foolish policies which enrich a few at the expense of many? We know why they do it, yet lack the organization, voice and power to stop it. This is the higher purpose our debates serve.

Naked short selling is illegal. Yet, the SEC ain't doing shit about it. Even when they act, like shutting down PRIMEX trading, the punishment they met out is no deterent.

" Naked short selling is illegal. "

If it's Maria Bartiromo I'd watch.

theinsanityreport.com
"His dick was this long."

"unemployment is at an all time high"

Well, that's a bald-faced lie.

What, never heard of The Depression? Check 1933 if needed.

#60 | Posted by Danforth

Howcome everytime it hits a high, a dem is president? FDR, JC, and the little o.

when our idiot president takes the country on a nose dive then up is the only way left.

My Dentist rocks- this is coming from someone who hates dentists and feels everyone of them is a closet Sadist.

#13 | Posted by kanrei

"Is it safe?", from Marathon Man, runs though my head every time I'm in the dentist's chair.

All lies and smoking mirrors, now yesterday, today, and tomorrow....
All lies and smoking obama mirrows, now today, yesterday, and tomorrow....

#56 | Posted by Dr_Feelgood at 2009-10-26 10:33 PM | Reply | Flag:


"now yesterday, today...."

Isn't 'today' redundant after using 'now'?

Isn't 'today' redundant after using 'now'?

It sure is and . . . WOW! He missed a comma, too! Guess we really showed him, right?

Howcome everytime it hits a high, a dem is president? FDR, JC, and the little o.

#84 | Posted by Sniper at 2009-10-27 02:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

Mainly because they have to fix the fuck ups of the preceding republican moron, like Hoover, Nixon/Ford, and little Bush.

Mainly because they have to fix the fuck ups

Interesting concept, bOoB. Fix unemployment by raising it. I guess that's why you love Obama's theory of borrowing your way out of debt.

Is this something your little lunar mine worker buddies shared with you?

The survey of 78 NABE members

Well, that's quite a survey there.

Interesting concept, bOoB. Fix unemployment by raising it. I guess that's why you love Obama's theory of borrowing your way out of debt.

Is this something your little lunar mine worker buddies shared with you?

#90 | Posted by Punk Boy at 2009-10-27 11:02 PM | Reply | Flag:Frightened human looking aliens will reveal themselves Dec21, 2001

Actually, in all cases the high unemployment was inherited, and in all cases, the problem was fixed by the time dems left office---only to be repeated by the next republican moron.

You should ask the lunar mine workers yourself---but then you are frightened of them revealing themselves on Dec 21, 2001 aren't you Punk Boy.

BOO!!!

Actually, in all cases the high unemployment was inherited,

And continued to climb. The Messiah said it was supposed to peak at 8%. It's now 10% bOoB. But the Messiah appreciates your worship and blind defense of him

BuffaloBob --

Nothing to do with this thread and excuse the interruption, but wanted to clarify something. There are times when I'm never quite sure when you take things seriously or know when I'm just kidding around

Just to let you know when I joke around about the Mayan prophecy bet dinner we have and I always write the following about our bet --

"If I win you've agreed to pay for ONE (ya cheapskate) dinner in Vegas..."

that I'm only kidding when I say the words "(ya cheapskate)" each time. Our joke bet was for only one dinner in the first place. The "cheapskate" part is just me joking around. I'm sure you've figured that out on your own by now. However, in case you took the "ya cheapskate" part seriously -- don't.

And continued to climb. The Messiah said it was supposed to peak at 8%. It's now 10% bOoB. But the Messiah appreciates your worship and blind defense of him

#93 | Posted by Puk Boy at 2009-10-27 11:20 PM | Reply | Flag Frightened human looking aliens will reveal themselves Dec21, 2012

Of course it kept rising Punk Boy---it takes time to fix the problems of republican fuck ups. It is at 10% because we need another stimulus package--the first one simply kept us from complete disaster and collapse.

You can either borrow your way out of debt, or go bankrupt. The best way is to borrow and work to pay off the debt. Conrad Hilton nearly went bankrupt, losing several of his hotels, and borrowed from his friends and recovered nicely, as a small example--the same principle works for countries as well as individuals.

I'm sure your republican Gods appreciate your goosestepping for them no matter what history and reality show to be factual. They are the party of the Big Hat, and that includes Punk Boys who are frightened of aliens.

BOO!!!

LOL

"If I win you've agreed to pay for ONE (ya cheapskate) dinner in Vegas..."


that I'm only kidding when I say the words "(ya cheapskate)" each time. Our joke bet was for only one dinner in the first place. The "cheapskate" part is just me joking around. I'm sure you've figured that out on your own by now. However, in case you took the "ya cheapskate" part seriously -- don't.

#94 | Posted by CalifChris at 2009-10-27 11:34 PM | Reply | Flag


I didn't take the cheapskate part seriously, but I did take the bet part seriously. I will gladly buy you that dinner in Vegas. It is a bet I hope to lose. At least you have the courage to back your challenge.

Actually, in all cases the high unemployment was inherited, and in all cases, the problem was fixed by the time dems left office---

Oh, you mean like Carter "fixed" it? LOL He also "fixed" the interest rates too.

Stick with lunar smokestacks, bOoB.

"Oh, you mean like Carter "fixed" it? LOL"

You're joking, right? Unemployment initially went up under Reagan, and then got worse. It took 6 years for Reagan to get below the worst unemployment Carter had.

www.bls.gov

Carter had no control over interest rates. Fed's job, and Feds job only. Out of his hands.

BTW, 'stagflation' began during Ford's term.

BTW, 'stagflation' began during Ford's term.

And Carter, not to be outdone took inflation to new and staggering heights.

Carter had no control over interest rates. Fed's job, and Feds job only. Out of his hands.

So all the folks blaming Bush for the housing bust due to low interest rates were wrong?

Goat?

No answer to #98?

So all the folks blaming Bush for the housing bust 'due to low interest rates' were wrong?

#102 | Posted by goatman

That wasn't the premise at all. Nice try.

That wasn't the premise at all.

So different rules for different presidents apply here?

Either the fed is to blame or they aren't. Which is it?

No answer to #98?

I'm sorry. I thought "you're joking" was rhetorical.

So different rules for different presidents apply here?

Either the fed is to blame or they aren't. Which is it?

#105 | Posted by goatman

Strawman. The fed determines interest rates. No one said the housing crisis was because of low interest rates and thus blamed Bush. It was the 'ownership society BS' built on a house of cards built on a foundation of GOP poured deregulation.

Goatman

Someone drop a bail of hay on your drive tonight? That's two strawmen in less than two minutes on two different threads.

On your behalf, it is days from Halloween, so you must need the practice lol

It was the 'ownership society BS' built on a house of cards built on a foundation of GOP poured deregulation.

You are a minority here on the DR. The general concensus with the lefties a couple of years ago was that Greenspan allowed interest rates to fall way too low and he was pretty much persona non grata. But I guess when the argument requires a good old fashioned Bush bash, it's time to change the rules and shift the blame.

I get it.

Someone drop a bail of hay on your drive tonight?

NOt that I know of.

The word "strawman" pretty much is meaningless here. It is dropped too much and erroneously (as you just have ) to have any impact any more.

Let's bail you out:

bail = bale, Dumbex

"I'm sorry. I thought "you're joking" was rhetorical."

It was, more or less. But your insinuation, that Carter oversaw rises in unemployment, was bullshit. The first five years of Reagan, and the last two years of Ford were worse than any year under Carter, who had the four lowest years of unemployment in that 11-year span.

BuffaloBob -

I didn't take the cheapskate part seriously, but I did take the bet part seriously. I will gladly buy you that dinner in Vegas. It is a bet I hope to lose. At least you have the courage to back your challenge.

Why, thank you. And since I'm 99.9% sure of my winning our bet, I like my prime rib barely medium rare -- mostly rare. Hope you're not a vegetarian. lol

btw -- Did you know your buddy Goatman had a hernia operation just a few days ago and is still recovering at home?

And, as much as you'd never admit it, you KNOW you'd miss Goatman if he didn't recover soon so the two of you could continue to drive each other nuts. So I think the very least you should do is write Goat a post with your "get well" wish. *grin*



I don't know about 2 years ago. I do know the origins of the housing crisis and the house of cards built on a foundation of deregulation. Had the Wall Street/Mortgage wall been left up, in place since the '30's. been left up this would never have happened. Hadn't happened since the '30's. Proof is in the pudding.

Proof is in the pudding.

That's right. The record low interest rates.

I do know the origins of the housing crisis and the house of cards built on a foundation of deregulation.

Not really.

But whatever perpetuates your narrative...

The word "strawman" pretty much is meaningless here. It is dropped too much and erroneously (as you just have ) to have any impact any more.

#110 | Posted by goatman

You built two very obvious strawmen on two threads in under two minutes tonight. The error is your denial that you did.

You built two very obvious strawmen on two threads in under two minutes tonight.

You are entitled to your opinion.

The error is your denial that you did

LOL

Deregulation of Savings and Loans led to a crisis in the 80's. Tearing down the pragmatic wall between Wall Street and the mortgage industry led to this crisis - a duplicate of the one in the late 20's and early '30's that led to the Great Depression and laws that prevented it from happening for 70 years until that wall was torn down by Gramm-Leach. History.

selective History

FTFY

The error is your denial that you did

LOL

#118 | Posted by goatman

Caught!! I would snicker impulsively if I got caught too lol

On another note, that pic of your granddaughter on the terlit reading a newspaper was adorable.

On another note, that pic of your granddaughter on the terlit reading a newspaper was adorable.

???

"selective History" - Goatman

Sure. History from the 20's and 30's. History from recent years. No need to examine the 70 years in between this didn't happen when banks, Wall Street, and mortgage bundling were kept apart by laws, overturned thanks to Mssr. Gramm and Leach.

You built two very obvious strawmen on two threads in under two minutes tonight.

No he didn't.

You just fabricated a new and exciting point of contention after having your ass handed to you.

That particular logical fallacy has a fairly specific definition---and one is not really allowed to call someone else out on it unless they're exhibiting a certain level of discipline in their argumentation.

You're not quite there.

Sorry.

#122 | Posted by goatman

You posted a pic of your granddaughter reading a newspaper on the toilet. Or, maybe it's one you found. The other day...yesterday perhaps? You admitted you were 'in the cups', so maybe you don't remember posting it.

Oh, I remember. Someone said "little shitter". I googled "little shitter" and got that picture. I have no idea who it was.

Jak

Your opinion of me is meaningless to me. Save your breath.

Oh, I remember. Someone said "little shitter". I googled "little shitter" and got that picture. I have no idea who it was.

#126 | Posted by goatman

OK. Cute pic anyway.

No need to examine the 70 years in between ...

And apparently you see no need to examine all the factors which include record low interest rates making mortages and sub-primes possible, either.

Hence "selective history"

"making mortages and sub-primes possible, either."

Mortgages and sub-primes were possible in the intervening years.

Mortgages and sub-primes were possible in the intervening years.

Not as easily to people who couldn't afford them. Surely you know that was my point.

"And apparently you see no need to examine all the factors which include record low interest rates making mortages and sub-primes possible, either." -

The meteoric rise of sub-prime mortgages in the 2000
's was fueled by money Wall Street bundled through an unregulated derivatives market just as they did before the Great Depression through other financial instruments, and why laws were passed to keep Wall Street money from fueling the mortgage industry. The 70 years Glass-Steagall was in effect prevented a collapse like the one that transpired once it was overturned by Gramm-Leach.

and record low interest rates.

I don't understand your selective history and ignoring that factor as if had no impact whatsoever. You are one of the few, even amongst lefties, who think that low interest rates did not contribute to that disaster.

That's fine, though. I can't make you stop ignoring it. I'll stop trying.

"Not as easily to people who couldn't afford them. Surely you know that was my point."

But in those years, banks didn't lend to folks they knew would eventually not be able to pay them back. 125% LTVs? Reset loans? What the fuck were they thinking? Was it all about the upfront fees, the market share, or just plain greed gone amuck?

Mortgages and sub-primes were possible in the intervening years. - Danforth?

"Not as easily to people who couldn't afford them. Surely you know that was my point." - Goatman

#131 | Posted by goatman

Gramm-Leach opened the door to a tsunami of Wall Street derivatives capital that was fed through a mass of newly created 'storefront mortgage brokers' to get that money to the mortgage market. Those unregulated 'mortgage brokers' then gave mortgages to anyone who could breathe, no proof of income required, and flipped them immediately with zero risk to themselves. End of story.

Low interest rates may have been a factor, but had banks been the only mortgage lenders, as they had been for 70 years, this wouldn't have happened.

Was it all about the upfront fees, the market share, or just plain greed gone amuck?


No it was about who cares about these people.
Who cares about the future.
Who cares about the country.
I need numbers on my books right now.

I'm sick of the capitalists who are all of a sudden care about their country.

American stock holders"Send that job overseas cause that's good for me"

I need numbers on my books right now.

That is exactly Obama's attitude right now and why he is borrowing our way out of the current economic crisis.

Goatman

#135 last paragraph. You were posting as I was still typing.

Yes, interest rates spurred the real estate market, but the Wall Street money and storefront 'mortgage brokers' - who took zero risk by originating and flipping them - created the housing bubble by opening the real estate market for millions who couldn't afford ever rising prices, although it wasn't presented to them in that way.

People thought prices ALWAYS go up, so they could sell when that 'adjustable' part of ARM hit and make a couple bucks. Reminded me of the old pyramid schemes. House of cards looks like a pyramid come to think of it.

why he is borrowing our way out of the current economic crisis.


Well,we borrowed our way into it we can borrow our way out.
Anyway,read your constitution,Only congress can spend funds.When Reagan was pres. I used to hear that same stuff about him.

Goatman,There you go again








Well,we borrowed our way into it we can borrow our way out.

LOL


Well,we borrowed our way into it we can borrow our way out.


LOL

No shit, and if you can see your way clear to loan me a couple hundred til next Tuesday that would be cool,LOL

My sister brought something over that looked kind of pukey, but it is really good. Raspberry lemonade.

If the picture is "brighter?" Then why extend unemployment benefits?

Job outlooks brightens? For who? Oh, wait a a minute...I know...

www.breitbart.com

Ha! Jokes on US. I thought Obama would be stimulating the AMERICAN economy not supporting his muslim brothers.

I thought Obama would be stimulating the AMERICAN economy not supporting his muslim brothers.

#144 | Posted by UpL8 at 2009-10-28 07:57 AM | Reply | Flag


I bet you bitched about the stimulus package also. Maybe you would like him to stimulate your KKK brothers.

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