Climate Scientists: 'No Easy Way Out'

#10 Redman

The entire populations of Japan and the Netherlands will need to find new places to live. This is while the world population continues to rise. Not all < a href="http://tinyurl.com/2kxlzt">countries below sea level will suffer (e.g., those inland).

A combination of rising sea levels and overpopulation is nothing to scoff at. Which is why we must continue studying global warming and overpopulation and figuring out how we're going to deal with these problems.

The global warming hysterics are the same ilk as the global ice age kooks and the population bomb people were in the 70's and 80's. Go back and read your Times, Newsweek, et al. hysterical headlines and B.S. "science".

More and more real scientists are having the nerve to speak out against this hoax which is more of a threat to our freedoms and our lives than a sight temperature change. Of course, most of us will be dead by 2060, so who will know if it all came to pass or not. Kind of insulates the hoaksters from their humiliation, doesn't it, even as they line their pockets and increase their power over our lives.

The real reason behind all the global warming crap is that a whole bunch of well connected people stand to become extremely wealthy at our expense while -- at the same time --those same people will NOT change their own profligate behaviors. Just Follow the Money.

Oh, and, by the way, for those of you whose lives revolve around being "chicken little", "the sky is falling!!!", why don't you instead pay more attention to the real threats facing this country instead of some made up crisis meant to control our behaviors.

#13 TELLNTELL

I've got a few questions for you, since you can speak from such a position as to put down everyone who thinks differently (you must know quite a bit on these matters and can educate dunces like me).

Who are the B.S. scientists, and the ones who are "real?"

Don't large-scale crises often times require large sums of money to combat?

What are the "real" threats facing this country?

And if I change my behavior to speak out against those threats, am I then, once again, Chicken Little?

#13.... Touche! Couldn't have said it better myself. It's amazing that some people swallow this B.S. and are willing to effect entire families lives. Just like the Alar scare and save the spotted owl and the rain forests ect. In the 70's it was the coming ice age. (still waiting for that shit to happen). Man made climate change claims are as true as saying "hey look I can flip this switch and turn the sun on and off!" (SAD) The climate will change. Just as it has before and will continue to do so weather WE are here or not.

"The climate will change. Just as it has before and will continue to do so weather WE are here or not."

For sure...and if we were to cut our carbon emissions to ZERO the two billions of people in just China and India would be increasing theirs and our gain would be ...what? Third world status, no doubt. But that would make our little leftist0-socialist friends happy I suppose.

Give these guys credit for persistence, if not intelligence.

AMEN RIR. It's a crock of shit is what it is. I swear.

Larry

The entire populations of Japan and the Netherlands will need to find new places to live.

The people in the Netherlands already know how to live below sea level. Their technology can be taught to other countries. And if you take a look at the attached map you will see that Japan has plenty of land above 10 meters in elevation.

Sea levels have been rising for thousaands of years. All you need to do is look at the coastal cities around Europe that were ports during the Roman era and are now under water. And they will continue to rise regardless of what we do until the end of the current interglacial period.

www.preventionweb.net

I'm dead by 2060 if not 2020. Next.

This is yet another fine example of greens attempting to lay the ground work for "O" to sign off on the Copenhagen Treaty in December. If you don't think the US is at risk with this go and read it for yourself. Pay close attention to the wording and understand that it subverts our constitution. The American you know will be gone and your kids will never have the opportunity to live out what the founders of this country wanted. Remember freedom isn't free.

WTFUA! The coffee is burning.

what size is the ozone hole now? if that didn't kill us what's a couple of degrees.

Guess I'd better purchase stock in sunscreen manufacturers.

I hope ray and his imbecilic ilk live just long enough to drown.

How is life behind bars, Shawn?

I still can't figure out why the anger? Does life suck or what?

I want the oceans to stop moving. I think we should pass legislation and spend billions to stop the oceans from moving! Oceans that move cause major cancers across the globe and the source of all misery!

Oh by the way this will happen in 2152 so you will do it or you're a denier! You're Hitler and you believe in Nazis if you don't believe what I say!

Oh for the believers here's 10 million in grants to prove my theory. You don't believe what I say!? You're fired get out!

*This is what is actually happening with global warming argument*
___________________

Funny how they're predictions occur when no one will be alive or too old when this happens.

Kind of like religion and false prophecies hmm ...

If you were given millions in grants to prove some bogus theory which is so easy to manipulate the data wouldn't you do it? I would. Better to be given millions in grants than to be fired and lose your job and career. Than when nothing happens no one will be responsible.

Oh also I just want to point out that NOTHING has happened so far in any of their global warming predictions. In fact the opposite has been occurring.

Where are the hurricanes Mr. gore?

"millions in grants to prove some bogus(sic) theory"

On the Influence of Carbonic Acid in the Air upon the Temperature of the Ground

Arrhenius, Svante, 1896
wiki.nsdl.org

There's the original paper, no funding involved.

Make up some more shit, you pathetic morons are mildly entertaining.

Zat: 6.6 billion humans and counting. what fucking good is my hybrid car gonna do me? Their are billions of people right now burning camel dung, horse patties, remnants of wood from what was once forested land, anything to provide heat and cooking fuel.
Your sanctimonious cut and paste crap gets really boring. You don't present solutions at all

Save global warming, eat your pets.

wattsupwiththat.com

www.stuff.co.nz

Maybe we should just go back to villages and the times before the wheel was invented to avoid global warming.

You will soon have carbon credits to own a pet. lol

All it takes to stir up a nest of pubbies is the mere mention of global warming. They have no other right wing policies left to defend, and no one cares to talk about Sarah Palin or Rush Limbaugh any more except jokers and fools.

Where are the hurricanes Mr. gore?

Why ask Gore? If you can't figure it out from researching legitimate data from legitimate sources Al isn't going to help much anyway.

All one has to do is look at the intensity and frequency of storms in the southern hemisphere these past few years to realize why the 'global average' of intense storms is up, not down as some are led to believe by looking only at the North Atlantic averages.

Apparently, it never occurs to these imbeciles that rapidly melting polar ice is temporarily cooling down currents flowing south which eventually cause upwelling that cools the warmer tropical waters that feed hurricanes.

Do a little research on thermalhaline currents and how climate change is effecting those currents and you might just learn something today.

Funny stuff T-man. Just don't let satire lead you into making stupid decisions or irrational arguments on a subject as controversial as climate change. I hope to be around another 50 years and I wouldn't want to see the end results if this pollution persists.

The entire populations of Japan

#12 | Posted by Scrumplet

Do you have any idea how high some of the moungtains are there? Your head must be very happy there.

I guess that means trillions of dollars won't reverse it.

#11 | Posted by KBM at 2009-10-25 09:34 AM

Maybe quadrillions will. It's only money, you know.

4 degrees Celsius IS a big temperature fluctuation for Zat's swimming pool.

#9 | POSTED BY COOKFISH

in your lifetime you will too..keep laughing the planet has the final laugh.

#31 | Posted by RingMaster at 2009-10-25 02:23 PM

What a partisan dumbass!

You think there are no democrats or independents whom don't believe in this GW stuff?

You're delusional.

#32 | Posted by RingMaster

"Do a little research on thermalhaline currents and how climate change is effecting those currents and you might just learn something today."

I really haven't done any comprehensive study on this, just a search on the web, but what little I have been able to find is: the first study of ocean circulation and the thermohaline structures was conducted in 1987. No data was found to compare the difference in thermohaline structures or differences in hurricane activity between the "Little Optimum" A.D.900-1000 (when temperatures were higher then today) and the "Little Ice Age" 1200-1300 ( when temperatures were lower then today).

If the data we are working with covers only 12 years, or just for error sake lets say 100 years, what can really be substantiated as long turn trends or effect?

#34 Snippy

I climbed Mt. Fuji, was pretty high. Okay, so I overstated the disaster area. But it still will be rather shitty. In our global economy, if one country is affected, it often has ramifications for its trade partners. We need to be ready so shit doesn't hit the fan, and it's going to cost money to be prepared.

Man, it's been cold in Michigan the last 2 years--- in fact, there's been sightings of those extinct polar bears in the upper peninsula, eh?

If the data we are working with covers only 12 years, or just for error sake lets say 100 years, what can really be substantiated as long turn trends or effect?

#38 | Posted by Bu_Heecha

Bu, please do NOT introduce facts - - it serves to confuse the true believers

kindly revert to insults & name calling . . that's their comfort zone

No data was found to compare the difference in thermohaline structures or differences in hurricane activity between the "Little Optimum" A.D.900-1000 (when temperatures were higher then today) and the "Little Ice Age" 1200-1300 ( when temperatures were lower then today).

Try this link... www.google.com

There is 1,070,000 hits on the term 'thermohaline currents' on the page.

At any rate I never said there was any long term studies on the subject and in fact the study is relatively new as scientist are just now developing the technology to better study the subject. I an strictly talking about immediate observable cause and effect. These currents also has a huge influence on the oceans food chain which is why the oceans ecology is in such peril today too. Do yourself a favor and don't consider yourself learned in the matter after reading one article in the matter.

As for washboards comment, don't bullshit me. I wasn't born yesterday. You know exactly what I meant.

I have noticed something here after reading many of the conservative's responses to climate change. I find some are mildly amusing but at the same time particularly disturbing. DR conservatives in particular seem to think that unless one provides a link, then there is no bases for the reasoning. The GW deniers in particular seem to think that unless it is written in stone somewhere then there is no truth to be found at all and does not require further thinking. It is just more shrapnel for their loose cannons.

I just want to say that real scientists never base their facts on what someone else theorized. They arrive at their own conclusions based on an open minded study of all the facts on both sides of the issue. Perhaps more importantly they look for peer reviews that are written by other real scientists, not journalists looking for a controversy just to sell an article.

The subject of thermohaline currents is a perfect example. You can't find articles to debunk what I said because it's too new a science, so you conclude that there is no relevance in the subject.

Nothing could be further from the truth. It may well be the most important study to enhance the world's understanding of both storms and the ecology of the ocean. You certainly won't find answers if you dismiss it out of hand due to laziness.

"unless one provides a link, then there is no bases for the reasoning"

Links from ...

The American Institute of Physics: www.aip.org

The national Academy of Sciences: www.nap.edu

The cognitive dissonance is fascinating.

Darwin didn't need a link.

#38Bu heecha----"if the data we are working with covers only 12 years"---- Interesting comment-- I invest on my own in the stock market and have learned to follow technicals and graphs. The further I go back and the longer the duration of data, the more significance I place on outcomes-- versus shortturn data. The longer term data always takes precedent over the shortterm and is much more predictive. An example-- I got out of the market in the fall of 2007 not only because of the craziness in wallstreet ( derivative exponential growth, housing market, et.) but more importantly because of a 100 year exponential graph of the DJIAs. The market price (and standard deviation) were way above the trend line and it was obvious pain was going to happen in the near future. Just an example of the importance of longterm data versus shortterm.

I should make the correction; 22 years not 12 years, other typos can stand.

Chicken Little the earth is falling up to the sky!
What do you think we should do Daddy O.???
Sacrafice and pay more money boy!!!
OK Mr. Daddy O. I paid yesterday is that enough!!!
Did you bleed son did you bleed???
You have to bleed boy!!!
Yes Mr. Daddy O.I did without food most of the week!!!
I don't think you bled enough boy, did you work from sun-up till sun-down while you were doing without food???
Yes Mr. Daddy O.!!!
Did you do without water whiles you was working boy???
No MR. Daddy O. I just had to have water to produce and bare more fruit!!!
Then boy you didn't bleed enough, you have to do without water while you do without food, while you work, and save the water for the earth, so the earth want get too hot, sciencsts say in about 40 years the earth will increase in tempature 2 degrees and we have to save and conserve water for the earth to keep it from getting too hot boy, you understand???
Yes Mr. Daddy O. I will do all you say, and I will bleed for you and the earth!!!
You better boy if you don't I'm going to take away your sleeping quarters next!!!
O please don't Mr. Daddy O, I promise to bleed more for you and the earth, and brother Al and Jessie, and Rev Wright, and all them good bros!!!
You better boy and you still ain't getting no food or water, and you still have to bare fruit boy, do you understand???
Yes Mr. Daddy O. I will bleed for you and uncle Jessie, and brother Al, and Rev Martin Luther, and all them bros!!!

All so called experts can stick it up to the red, All that sacrafice and propaganda, and bullshit,
NO WAY HOSEA it ain't happening, it's all propaganda we don't have any blood left, you hear that Mr O, Boy, can you hear that???

I just want to say that real scientists never base their facts on what someone else theorized. They arrive at their own conclusions based on an open minded study of all the facts on both sides of the issue. Perhaps more importantly they look for peer reviews that are written by other real scientists, not journalists looking for a controversy just to sell an article.

#43 | Posted by RingMaster

thanks for the lecture ... I guess it's commendable that you & Zat are enthusiastic well-meaning youngsters without relevant baseline experience

back in the 70's "scientists" warned us that a 10,000 year ice age had begun;

it was SETTLED SCIENCE - -the alarm came from studies, papers, & peer review in the following -

a) Science, the renowned scientific journal - -
b) National Meteorological Organization - -
c) the National Academy of Sciences - - -
d) National Center for Atmospheric Research - -
e) Science Digest - - -
f) Newsweek - -
g) NY Times - -

HMM, O's science czar was in the middle of the ice age stuff a mere 30 yrs ago

one of us is naive & gullible, & it ain't this old man

You are full of beans, matsop, resulting in a lot of hot air. If you really had an inkling of what was about to happen to the stock market you would have gone short and raked it in. Hindsight is always 20/20. You jumped ship just when you 'figured it out"?

Did your knowledge of long term trends and standard deviation also tell you to buy in march when the DJIA hit bottom at 6500?

Don't feel bad. Most conservatives missed that rally too simply because they were so positive that the stimulus bill was doomed to complete failure. Most still think that. So What?

We can all be wrong at times, but it doesn't change the real facts. We are screwing up the planet's ability to cope with rapid climate change and the result is mass distinction of historical proportions. Some choose to fight and try to combat rapid change, but most like you, prefer to think they got it all figured out and therefore there is no need to even investigate the possibility that Al Gore may be more right then wrong, simply because he is a Democrat.

Fun little exercise feelgood. Too bad you are not sharp enough to write it or credit the real author.

As for you markh, that's so right wing cliche it is pathetic that it is the extent of your intellect on this matter. Can you come up with an argument better then what someone said 50 years ago, before even the age of satellites?

Times change but old fart conservatives are still quoting the news that was written 50 years ago.

Ringmaster, how prescient of you. Yes, I did begin to phase into this market in March of this year and am up 33% and that's with 25% of my portfolio still in cash. And I'll give you another nugget-- stimulus is not creating jobs and so this market is on borrowed time-- my charts tell me we have a chance to run further but we're still in the grasp of the "bear" and will be for probably another 8 years or so. Since I've done well must be a good chance that I'm not a conservative. See, I deal with facts and not "hype."

Tingdisaster So you think you are an expert huh?
This old earth will still be here after all self glorified fart-smellers, and worthless, stinking, carcases have long dried up and rotted away, and life will still continue on into the future.

We can always count on schemers, swindlers, and worthless trash to pretend to be something great but actually they do so in order to cover their profound ignorance, and along the way they hone in on what they think is a gravy train, and use it like a blood sucking leech, sucking the life out of those dumb enough to allow them to do so.

There will always come along a so called Chicken Little, like Al Gore and apparently those like you.
But Al and those like you can not pull the wool over some people's eyes and fleece them without their realizing it.

It's the rotten apples that destroy the good ones and there are a bucnh in every flock.

Tingdisaster there is a true saying that you can fool most of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time...

And yes I did make up the little ditty as I typed it out to try to show people just how gullible they can become when trusting dishonest, greedy beasts to take care of their needs...

A lot of scientists that were ardent supporters of "global warming" have reversed their positions. One made the statement that some of the few that still support it don't want to admit their fallacy since it's an ego thing and credibility loss.

And yes I did make up the little ditty as I typed it out...

Yes, I did begin to phase into this market in March of this year and am up 33% and that's with 25% of my portfolio still in cash.

Yadayadayada.

You too can't figure out that burning a lake of oil the size of Lake Superior is polluting the planet and we are all supposed to believe a couple of anonymous right wing fantasy nuts who think we are not?

Yea, and I made a million dollars on carbon taxes last year that aren't even proposed much less made law.

Have you noticed how global warming denialists always flock to "Chicken Little" or "The Boy Who Cried Wolf?" It's like their minds cannot operate on an adult level of rational thought. Endless name-calling; never any serious discussion or even acknowledgement that there could be a downside to ever-increasing consumption.

To cap it off, they say we are the ones whose beliefs border on religious.

Sigh.

I almost hope a meteor takes us out. Chicken Little FTW!

"one of us is naive & gullible, & it ain't this old man

#49 | Posted by markh "

No you are referred to ignorant and dogmatic.

"A lot of scientists that were ardent supporters of "global warming" have reversed their positions. One made the statement that some of the few that still support it don't want to admit their fallacy since it's an ego thing and credibility loss.

#54 | Posted by matsop"

"a lot"? what is a lot 3-4? It is less than 1%. And the ones that have "reversed" have done it on the causes and extent. Not on that it is happening. This happens in science, there are arguments, unlike in religion and the republican party.

the possibility of global temperatures rising by 4 degrees Celsius or more by 2060

So Mexico will become unlivable.

America will turn into Mexico.

And Canada will turn into the US in terms of climate.

Man, better get started on that fence.

Be Well.

back in the 70's "scientists" warned us that a 10,000 year ice age had begun.
1970's ice age predictions were predominantly media based with the majority of scientist and scientific papers predicting warming (the opposite).

so no, scientist did not have this opinion, that was a newsweek story, no scientists involved. Stop talking trash and check real scientific sources, but righties have no real souce all they have is talking points.

righties said "smoking does not harm you" SURE!
righties track record on science pretty bad, from smoking to PCB's to asbestos, what idiots. THey were very comfortable in the dark ages,and that's where they remain, they have a favorire saying ,"I didn't come from no Monkey".

I like the Democrat plan of moving wealth around and doing nothing for the environment. They call it "Cap 'n' Trade."

Hey, global warming alarmists, I'm going to lunch but when I get back I'll list a number of prominent scientists that have reversed their positions and some have even (horror) verbally said it was perpetuated due to political agenda and for some to (horror) make money off it. And guess what, some of them are socialists and liberal and not right wing (horror, horror). Of course, I could list even more but I would have to give my carpal tunnel a rest. It's very difficult for humans to take a firm position on a theory and then admit it to themselves and others when their position becomes tenuous and untenable -- join the human race, it's not unusual.

If WE cut carbon emissions by 50%, how much are China, India, Mexico and others gonna cut?

WHAT!? Did someone say NONE. Their emissions are gonna INCREASE? Damn, that's several BILLIONS of people INCREASING carbon emissions! Why are we even considering this completely stupid action?

I wrote this and posted it before...but it applies here - and it is faster just to repost than to create from scratch again. This was in response to a Global Warming deniers post which I reposted at the top...

'love all the GLOBAL WARMING deniers! They have been with us since we KNEW all about global warming in the 1970's. They will always be with us just like FLAT EARTH society and the MOON WALK deniers! But back to reality - MANY kudos to Minister Brown for bringing a sense of URGENCY to the issue."

Nothing like the rantings of a religious zealot.

OK..I know this is a waste of time....but here goes.

1> "we knew all about global warming since the 70's

www.time.com

Above is the link to the Times article (also ones in Newsweek, Washington Post, Chicago Sun Times, NY Times etc) that was predicting a new ice age.

The reason that we seem to warming is that it is in comparison to a recent signficant decline in temperatures (which we are heading into again)..so ...we were cooling - then we warmed - now we are cooling again. Statistically we have been warming since the end of the last ice age 10K years ago. (and the humans caused that change?)

From a geological time look at the earth we have been on a straight cooling since the beginning of the last epoch.

earthguide.ucsd.edu

Basically the thought that CO2 causes the earth to warm is a scientific non-starter. It is for people who failed 7th grade science.

1st of all C02 is a very small part of our atmosphere.

wiki.answers.com's_atmosphere

www.estrellamountain.edu

Less than 1/3 of 1/10 of 1% is C02. By the way Plants EAT IT. Called photosynthesis - it is the process where plants turn c02 into food. Primarily simple sugar. The fact is that plants INCREASE production as c02 increases upto the point where CO2 reaches 5% (not .oo5 but 5) of the atmosphere...more CO2 the faster plants grow and the more they digest. That is why the global Warming people cannot find 40Million TONS of Carbon that they expected to find.

www.nature.com

Even the die hard environmentalist now agree that the plants are consuming more than they thought. (they are die hard for global warming because that is where the funding is coming from. Put up money for research into global cooling and see how many papers you get on that)

If you want to think the atmosphere has something to do with the non-warming trend ...then blame Argon.

Argon has a much higher energy reflective property than C02..or blame Water Vapor..it too is more reflective than C02..but neither of these can be caused by man - so it does not meet the political needs of the environmentalist.

So ..believe what you want ...that is what religion is all about...but don't think it is science

AGAIN

Evidence of climate change (often arguable), even when true IS NOT, REPEAT: "NOT", evidence of HUMAN caused climate change.

Evidence of CATASTROPHIC climate change (often arguable), even when true IS NOT, REPEAT: "NOT", evidence of HUMAN caused climate change.

The earth has had "catastrophic" climate change MANY MANY MANY times before, almost all of them long before the human race even existed.

The earth WILL have MANY more Ice Ages. If one happens anytime soon, billions will die. Shit Happens.

Witch Hunt = "if something bad happens, it is 100% certain it happened because someone made it happen."

If there is ONE core gripe I have against the greens, it is their witch hunt methods.

#65 | Posted by USAF242 at 2009-10-26 10:46 AM | Reply | Flag: believes in witches

Human Fingerprints
www.ucsusa.org

Data pins polar warming blame on humans
www.cnn.com

Foreboding forecast
Proc. Natl Acad. Sci. USA 105, 1525815262 (2008)
www.nature.com

Nature 449, 710-712 (11 October 2007) | doi:10.1038/nature06207; Received 29 March 2007; Accepted 30 August 2007
Attribution of observed surface humidity changes to human influence
www.nature.com

Increasing rates of ice mass loss from the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets revealed by GRACE
www.agu.org