Barr: Who Cares If Wall Street Talent Leaves?

Saturday, October 24, 2009

Colin Barr, Fortune: There's no need to fear a Wall Street brain drain -- despite the crackdown on pay by Washington. After all, the traders and suits in the corner offices don't exactly have an unblemished track record. In 2008, Citigroup, BofA and Merrill Lynch (since acquired by BofA) posted a grand total of $51 billion in losses. Yet even as they were running themselves into the ground, the firms managed to pay out more than $12 billion in bonuses -- including 1,606 million-dollar-plus bonuses, according to a report from the New York attorney general's office.

Posted by Whatsleft at 04:31 PM | 67 COMMENTS | permalink | Comment on This Entry

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The ONLY "talent" on Wall Street-is for getting rewarded for bankrupting the Company you're running.

#1 | Posted by frankf55 at 2009-10-23 03:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

Let em go to Med school to replace all the MDs who say they will stop practicing medicine and go into Musical Theater if Heath Insurance reform passes.

A load of bull.

Besides, with all the folks who have lost jobs in the Meltdown lookin for work, who really believes that they are irreplacable? (wink) You becha.

#2 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2009-10-23 04:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

They can and will be found wherever they may hide. If power is a fragrance, hubris has a stench.

#3 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2009-10-23 07:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

Exactly what do you mean by that robot? Who is hiding that will be found?

#4 | Posted by L_RContrarian at 2009-10-24 12:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

I don't care.

#5 | Posted by wurster at 2009-10-24 04:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

If they are the 'best and brightest' they will call bullshit on our current system. These bonuses could be nothing more than bribes.

#6 | Posted by wurster at 2009-10-24 04:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

The real issue is what is defined as talent. More accurately, who does the defining.

Wall Street rewards the concentration of wealth in the hands of a few. It doesn't matter if the company tanks so long as the wealth is extracted beforehand.

Why bother worrying about earnings when you can loot the pension fund? The Feds will pick up the bill. Corporate welfare at its finest.

#7 | Posted by snoofy at 2009-10-24 05:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

Why do they say 'talent' when these shmucks got so many firms in deep doo doo?

#8 | Posted by Timex at 2009-10-24 05:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

Exactly what do you mean by that robot? Who is hiding that will be found?
#4 | Posted by L_RContrarian at 2009-10-24 12:23 PM

Gross expenditures are merely one method of tracking specific assholes. I'm not certain, but if they are at all like their British counterparts it's merely a matter of time until they are all found out.

It's not like they are criminal.. right?:]

#9 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2009-10-24 06:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

If they were so talented, they wouldn't have gotten into the trouble however, we are fucking idiots to bail their sorry asses out. The VPs and boards should spend the rest of their rotten lives in prison while the government takes their piles of money and gives it back to the people that actualy pay taxes. While I am on this rant, we should do the same to the government officials that are doing the same thing.

#10 | Posted by Sniper at 2009-10-24 06:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

"If they were so talented, they wouldn't have gotten into the trouble however, we are fucking idiots to bail their sorry asses out."

They were talented enough to bet every 99-1 shot and still have Washington pay them off. Not only the owners, but millions more in bonuses to the losing trainers, jockeys, grooms, shit cleaners... All for a few million in campaign donations.

#11 | Posted by crispee_oc at 2009-10-24 06:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

#11 | Posted by crispee_oc

Thanks to idiots like you who vote GOP and buy the trickle-down, supply side, anti-regulation snake oil.

#12 | Posted by DARTHCHENEY at 2009-10-24 07:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

If this is wall street "talent" that got us into this mess.. I would hate to see what a cadre of retards could do to the stock market

#13 | Posted by Legio at 2009-10-24 07:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

This business of saying that we'll lose the best and brightest is a canard-- If you take a basic business course, right off the bat they'll teach that public corporations are owned by the shareholders. Riiiiiiight. You would never know it by watching the last few years. Many of the boards and executives are in an incestuous relationship and Wallstreet has been on welfare for a number of years. I've felt for some time that we haven't had a real capitalistic society but instead a socialistic one where the upper and lower income castes have been government supported for some time. The dwindling middle class pulls the load and continues to shrink.

#14 | Posted by matsop at 2009-10-24 08:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

LEGIO - This mess snowballed from the govt requirements that pushed sub-prime housing loans and then the domino effect when the bundled mortgages took down investment banks and the market with them. Read up on it and pay attention to Sens Dodd and Franks involvement. All this could have been avoided if the govt had not pushed for mortgages given to people who would never have qualified in the past. It was meant to give more people the 'American Dream' [(owning a home) and has become America''s financial nightmare.

#15 | Posted by MSgt at 2009-10-24 08:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

Wallstreet continues to play too big a role in our government---Larry summers, etal. Then you have Timmy geithner who wasn't regulating anything when he was connected with the N.Y. Fed.

#16 | Posted by matsop at 2009-10-24 08:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

Wall Street's SEC's job. Not the feds.

#17 | Posted by Timex at 2009-10-24 08:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

#15---Government was up to their armpits in this thing-- The folks in Connecticut are figuring it out with Dodd who is finally in trouble. Maybe, the voters are starting to wise up and holding both parties accountable for their screw-ups. Maybe there is hope yet for the voters and this country.

#18 | Posted by matsop at 2009-10-24 08:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

#17-- Timex, you're right about the SEC-- Christopher Cox was a disaster and had a chance to bring some sanity to wallstreet pay (which was in his pervue, also the uptick rule,etc). The thing that burns me about Geithner, other then being a tax cheat, was being a part of the Greenspan era and the lowering of rates to just about zero.

#19 | Posted by matsop at 2009-10-24 08:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

Geitner didn't set Fed policy. Not his gig.

"Christopher Cox was a disaster and had a chance to bring some sanity to wallstreet pay"

Bet you're glad Feinberg has.

#20 | Posted by Timex at 2009-10-24 08:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

I don't think we've heard the last about Bernie Madoff/SEC either. What a travesty...especially since they were warned repeatedly.

#21 | Posted by Timex at 2009-10-24 08:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

#20----Geithner as President of the federal reserve bank of N.Y. along with the other bank presidents vote on interest rate directions. I believe he was with Greenspan when rates were lowered close to zero.

#22 | Posted by matsop at 2009-10-24 09:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

#20-- absolutely, I just hope they have the sense to know when to stop as it relates to public companies where the government has no ownership. There are ways to get more shareholder involvement and it does occur in other countries notably the netherlands--- and it's been successful and the executives have performed well. This is one area where I give the o-bomber administration kudoes.

#23 | Posted by matsop at 2009-10-24 09:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I believe he was with Greenspan when rates were lowered close to zero."

That would be right after 9-11 when fears of a huge recession grew because of public panic. It was entirely right of them to lower the interest rates at that time, the CRIME came when they continued to hold them that low three and four years later just to insure that George Bush would be reelected.

#24 | Posted by danni at 2009-10-24 09:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

Matsop

Federal Reserve Bank presidents (like Geitner was) and their boards do not vote on Fed policy decisions. That's the Board of Governors. Thanks for your polite discourse. :)

#25 | Posted by Timex at 2009-10-24 09:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

There are 12 Federal Reserve Banks around the country, each with their own boards (Geitner led the one in NY). The Fed's Board of Governors are nominated by the President and vote on Fed policy. Geitner has never been a member of the Board of Governors.

#26 | Posted by Timex at 2009-10-24 09:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

Timex, I will say it again--- Tim Geithner as president of the federal reserve bank of N.Y. sat on the FOMC which sets monetary policy through the discount window and other methods. I respectfully don't know what policy decisions you're referring to and would you elucidate them to me so I understand what in the world you're talking about. Thanks

#27 | Posted by matsop at 2009-10-24 09:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

Timex, you have your facts wrong-- 5 of the 12 presidents sit on the fomc and vote on policy. Further more, the president of the N.Y. bank (I believe)is usually the v.p. of the reserve since money initially moves through the New York bank

#28 | Posted by matsop at 2009-10-24 09:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

Timex, to further the discussion-- there are 12 voting members on the FOMC---7 governors and 5 bank presidents--I can't get much clearer then this.

#29 | Posted by matsop at 2009-10-24 09:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

Timex, just to plug any holes--- there are 12 federal reserve banks which is probably what was confusing you.

#30 | Posted by matsop at 2009-10-24 09:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

I stand corrected. The seven-member Board of Governors is the main governing body of the Federal Reserve System. A tad confusing as you say. I just checked and Geithner served on FOMC for 3 years with Greenspan until Greenspan's retirement in 2006 :)

#31 | Posted by Timex at 2009-10-24 09:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

Thanks for the info, the polite back and forth, and for graciously proving I needed to read up more on the Fed.

#32 | Posted by Timex at 2009-10-24 10:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

If Americans had any real balls, the only Wall street talent there would be, would be the ones that were talented enough to have avoided the piano wire and gasoline. Look at all the pension funds and retirment accounts that were "stolen" from, it would have been a bloodbath 60 Years ago.

#33 | Posted by Constuct at 2009-10-24 11:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

#32--- thanks for the posts which in the future I'll respect because of your honesty. The Fed has always been of interest to me and one of the areas I've read up on since their decision making affects my investment decisions.

#34 | Posted by matsop at 2009-10-24 11:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

Matsop

Thank you for spurring me to be better informed. Refreshing to have a civil conversation across the aisle :)

#35 | Posted by Timex at 2009-10-24 11:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner-- was playing "boggle" with some long-term friends.

#36 | Posted by matsop at 2009-10-24 11:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

NP. Thanks. Hope you win. :)

#37 | Posted by Timex at 2009-10-24 11:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

People who make these claims are not looking at the big picture or history.

When they 1st came out with the income tax they said only the super rich will get taxed on income, now just about everyone gets taxed.

The same will go with salaries, right now Wall Street executives are unpopular so they will get away with it, but when they start telling everyone else how much they should make, all you suckers that supported this will be pissed.

The government regulating private sector salaries is a bad idea.

#38 | Posted by 90c2cab at 2009-10-25 07:09 AM | Reply | Flag:

The government regulating private sector salaries is a bad idea.

#38 | POSTED BY 90C2CAB

Says you. I wouldn't mind a communist govt. Mandatory military service and lot's of govt mandated martial arts training sounds like all you need.

#39 | Posted by jackass at 2009-10-25 07:17 AM | Reply | Flag:

#15 | POSTED BY MSGT

sorry.. but no. That was a by product of this legislation being rescinded. Again..we thought we had either become too smart or decided to rape the investment community.

en.wikipedia.org

#40 | Posted by Legio at 2009-10-25 07:54 AM | Reply | Flag:

#40 | Posted by Legio at

sorry.. but no. That was a by product of this legislation being rescinded. Again..we thought we had either become too smart or decided to rape the investment community.
--------------------

That act just seperates banks of different types from doing bussines with each, it does not prevent banks from buy toxic assests from other non banking firms like Fannie May.

I'm not against bringing it back, I just don't think its the silver bullet some people think it is.

#41 | Posted by 90c2cab at 2009-10-25 09:53 AM | Reply | Flag:

#40 | Posted by Legio at

sorry.. but no. That was a by product of this legislation being rescinded. Again..we thought we had either become too smart or decided to rape the investment community.
--------------------

That act just seperates banks of different types from doing bussines with each other, it does not prevent banks from doing business with other non banking firms like Fannie May.

In fact Europe has never had a Glass Steigle act, and until now has never had this type of banking problem.

I'm not against bringing it back, I just don't think its the silver bullet some people think it is.

The best way to deal with the banks is to do a risk assesment, have capital requirements at all the banks and you avoid this problem.

#42 | Posted by 90c2cab at 2009-10-25 09:56 AM | Reply | Flag:

If these financial minds are "the best and the brightest" then how is it their companies were failing or insolvent? Or am I missing something here? All the blame can't be put on the general public...someone is responsible for, as we refer to it in my humble financial world, "bouncing checks".

#43 | Posted by UpL8 at 2009-10-25 10:07 AM | Reply | Flag:

#15 | POSTED BY MSGT

Yes, Dodd and Frank are others who lobbied for the financially unsound are culpable; but, the minds of the "best and the brightest" just should have said "NO!"

#44 | Posted by UpL8 at 2009-10-25 10:11 AM | Reply | Flag:

They should post pictures of all the Wall Street execs right next to a cream pie stand

#45 | Posted by Timex at 2009-10-25 10:25 AM | Reply | Flag:

"LEGIO - This mess snowballed from the govt requirements that pushed sub-prime housing loans and then the domino effect when the bundled mortgages took down investment banks and the market with them. Read up on it and pay attention to Sens Dodd and Franks involvement. All this could have been avoided if the govt had not pushed for mortgages given to people who would never have qualified in the past. It was meant to give more people the 'American Dream' [(owning a home) and has become America''s financial nightmare.

#15 | Posted by MSgt "

Oh god another attack on the poor of the country. The subprime loans is only a small part of the crisis. It is really nothing. The cheap debt which fueled speculation at all levels along with the excessive risk taking by the investment banks are what caused the real problems. It was a whole fucking pyramid scheme. Just wait until the commercial real estate starts to collapse. That is funded by local banks. This is going to be painful. Oh and let's not forget the credit card crisis either.

ACORN, subprime, welfare, etc are all manufactured distractions by the wealthy on the core white american voters to distract them from the real cheats.

#46 | Posted by furio at 2009-10-25 12:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

"If these financial minds are "the best and the brightest" then how is it their companies were failing or insolvent? Or am I missing something here? All the blame can't be put on the general public...someone is responsible for, as we refer to it in my humble financial world, "bouncing checks".

#43 | Posted by UpL8"

The general public are fucking morons. They risk bankruptcy with their own money for the hope of a few extra shekels. "The best and the brightest" risk bankrupting countries not themselves to get rich.

All people are greedy. The smarter ones just think bigger.

#47 | Posted by furio at 2009-10-25 12:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

Thanks to idiots like you who vote GOP and buy the trickle-down, supply side, anti-regulation snake oil.

#12 | Posted by DARTHCHENEY

Is it the GOP that is paying them off? You need to take a long hard look at who has been in control of the house and senate since the middle of Bush's last term and thru the little o's nine months.

#48 | Posted by Sniper at 2009-10-25 03:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

Does anyone doubt for an instant that this "talent" would remain if instead of 100 million they only got 25 million? Or that if a few of them did leave there would not be scores of equally talented people waiting in the wings to take their places?

#49 | Posted by moder8 at 2009-10-25 03:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

exactly. Who cares if they leave. WTB government with a backbone.

I wish I got paid more for threatening to leave. Being the average Joe I'd probably get booted "cya have a nice day" while the employer picks up some other scrub cheaper than what they were paying me.

#50 | Posted by pragmatous at 2009-10-25 04:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

I can just see it now Prag goes and says Take this job and shove it on Friday and by Monday they would have some cold hearted snake take His/Her place. One that smells of pinesol and Wears Coke Bottle glasses that make Her eyes apear Humongus and some boy named Larry would be trembling in His chair thinking this Woman is gonna eat Me for lunch.

Larry

#51 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2009-10-25 04:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

Who cares? Depends where your IRA, 401K or pension plan is invested - of course most you 'Wall Street' haters probably have no investments so it's easy to slur them.

#52 | Posted by MSgt at 2009-10-25 04:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

You can roll that shit over. So stop your whining.

#53 | Posted by pragmatous at 2009-10-25 04:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

msgt, I have considerable investments and run my own portfolio, but what the ceos and boards did to pension funds, iras, and then were paid what they were paid is unconscionable. Their pay wasn't tied to performance and there was an incestuos relationship between many boards and upper management. For too long in this country we've had a welfare system in the upper reaches of public corporations and I would love to have power returned to the rightful owner, the shareholder. Other countries have systems where the shareholder has a larger say on pay and the companies do well, but management is not paid the exorbitant kind of salaries that are paid back here. And guess what, the executives don't go elsewhere.

#54 | Posted by matsop at 2009-10-25 04:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

All people are greedy. The smarter ones just think bigger.

#47 | Posted by furio

Yeah, a lot of them are. So too are the mortgage brokers and the lenders. It was a three-ringed circus all the way around.

#55 | Posted by UpL8 at 2009-10-25 05:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

exactly right. market strength trumps talent, every time.

but what's with the most powerful original perpetrators of securities fraud, trading fraud, not being subjected to compensation limits?

Goldman-Sachs has taken $55 billion from taxpayers, directly and indirectly. The story that they have paid it all back and therefore eligible for bonuses until the cows come home is absolute bullshit. Where is the FBI on this? Oh, I almost forgot, they're busy arresting anyone G-Sax points their finger at. Proof is unnecessary when you control the Fed and Treasury.

#56 | Posted by nutcase at 2009-10-25 07:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yep, and they're making money with our money.

#57 | Posted by matsop at 2009-10-25 08:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

It is not the guys on wall street that got us into this mess...it is the guys in Washington.

1st) the removal of Glass Steigal which should be reinstated - this kept Banks as Banks and Investment companies...as investment companies...

2nd) The criminal activity at both Fannie and Freddy - Notice that NOBODY is going after those guys. Why ...google the board of directors for them in 2002.

3rd) the various Community Reinvestment and associated acts coupled with the bundling of home debit as an investment vehicle by both above.

4th) The creation of Hedge funds...which in itself would not have been a problem if Glass was still enforce.

Who cares if they leave? WE DO. If the talent goes to Deutsch Bank or NAG or other international firm - those countries where they are headquarted benefit to the detriment of the US.

You can be pissed off at Wall Streeters all you want...but at the end of the day the reason we have virtually any economic growth in the US is because here is where the world comes to invest....if they go our position in the world goes with them.

#58 | Posted by foshaffer at 2009-10-25 09:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

I don't see why they should be considered any more talented than anyone else who is sustained by government welfare.

#59 | Posted by sully at 2009-10-26 08:30 AM | Reply | Flag:

Talent? What talent? Talent at looking the other way to insider trading and Maddof Ponzi schemes?

Talent at building a house of cards with chasing
this bubble, after that bubble, after the next bubble, after the next, and then pretending ignorance when it all comes crashing down?

hmm...we must have a new definition for "talent"...

#60 | Posted by earthmuse at 2009-10-26 11:38 AM | Reply | Flag:

we used to call that "corruption"
from where I came from...

#61 | Posted by earthmuse at 2009-10-26 11:39 AM | Reply | Flag:

I don't fell sorry for Wall Street--

Ha Ha Ha--I say.

They contributed millions to Obama and now they get pay cuts!

Maybe there are some on Wall Street who contibute back--?? Ha Ha!!

---------
Same for young people who came out to vote for Obama--they don't have any jobs for their trouble.

(I won't say ha ha to them since they have no jobs).

#62 | Posted by MURPHY at 2009-10-26 01:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

And who, pray, did you expect them to vote for, Murphy? They ain't stupid enough to vote for McCain/Palin, or any Republican "Conservative", because they know better.

#63 | Posted by sitdown at 2009-10-26 01:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

while the government takes their piles of money and gives it back to the people that actualy pay taxes.

#10 | Posted by Sniper at 2009-10-24 06:25 PM | Reply | Flag:Closet Marxist

#64 | Posted by northguy3 at 2009-10-26 01:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

Full Of Shit HAFFER is confused as usual, although I agree Glass-Steagal needs to be reinstated.

Wall Street has control of Washington and has used their control of the Federal Reserve and Treasury to enrich themselves while Congress and the White House sit around with their heads up its ass. This behavior marks a failed State, which the rats are fleeing from with as much money as they can.

#65 | Posted by nutcase at 2009-10-26 01:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

Thanks to idiots like you who vote GOP and buy the trickle-down, supply side, anti-regulation snake oil.

#12 | Posted by DARTHCHENEY

None of the Bailouts would have occurred with the Majority in the House saying "NO"

Who held the majority? How long did they hold the majority? Wasn't it before 2009?

#66 | Posted by Petrous at 2009-10-26 02:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

Talent what talent???
The Wall street vultures have no talent, only greed
disinformation, and vanity.
The Democratic jackasses don't have any talent, only greed, propaganda, disgust, disinformation,
hate, and vanity...
We don't have much left do we folks...

#67 | Posted by Dr_Feelgood at 2009-10-26 05:55 PM | Reply | Flag: