Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs

Pope Benedict on Tuesday took a major step to make it easier for disaffected Anglicans who feel their Church has become too liberal to convert to Roman Catholicism. The move comes after years of discontent in some sectors of the 77-million-strong worldwide Anglican community over the ordination of women priests and homosexual bishops. While both sides stressed the step would not affect dialogue between the two Churches, it was clear it was taken because of the growing number of Anglicans who want to leave their Church.

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Pope:

......oh.....and don't forget to bring your altar boys......

What a misleading title for this thread. This initiative by the Pope has nothing to do with gay bashing. It is an attempt by the RC Church to bring some fellow travelers in Christ back into the fold.

Many American Catholics would welcome married priests and bishops, allow divorced members to receive the Eucharist, believe that Purgatory does not exist and regularly use birth control. The Pope and his opinions are largely ignored. They are for the most part Anglican in their thinking . Few Catholics convert to the Episcopal Church This change by the Pope is not likely to result in any significant conversion to Rome.

so

"What a misleading title for this thread. This initiative by the Pope has nothing to do with gay bashing. It is an attempt by the RC Church to bring some fellow travelers in Christ back into the fold."

I think you are the one misleading. Every church has a fringe. There are Episcopalians who are pissed at their church for allowing more gays into leadership roles in their church.

The Pope is improving his market share by taking advantage of that discontent.

What the Pope is doing has NOTHING to do with Christianity. It's a business decision pure and simple.

Many American Catholics would welcome married priests and bishops, allow divorced members to receive the Eucharist, believe that Purgatory does not exist and regularly use birth control. The Pope and his opinions are largely ignored. They are for the most part Anglican in their thinking . Few Catholics convert to the Episcopal Church This change by the Pope is not likely to result in any significant conversion to Rome.

#3 | Posted by SLBronkowitz at 2009-10-21 08:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

The Church officially declared that Purgatory doesn't exist any more. No joke. Several years back they did away with the concept.

Something about helping parents of stillborn and other children who died before baptism feel better.

Wrong, commonsense. You are thinking about Limbo, not Purgatory. St. Augustine had posited Limbo, but it was never adopted as a doctrine by the Church. In the recent promouncement, the Church did not reject Limbo outright, but said a child dying in original sin without any other sin is not by necessity condemned to separation from God.

There are Episcopalians who are pissed at their church for allowing more gays into leadership roles in their church.

Gays, or women,A lot of episcopalians are upset about women preists and bishops,too.

How come we never hear about Muslims being angry at all the gay Imams or Sheiks? For that matter, why hasn't the Muslim religion ever been hit with a pedophile scandal?

#9 - perhaps because pedophilia is NOT scandalous to them? duh.

Will you convert?
NO, NO, NO, NO

Will you confess?
NO, NO, NO, NO

Will you revert?
NO, NO, NO, NO

Will you say YES?
NO, NO, NO, NO

www.youtube.com

In the recent promouncement, the Church did not reject Limbo outright, but said a child dying in original sin without any other sin is not by necessity condemned to separation from God.

How the hell would they know?

Wrong, commonsense. You are thinking about Limbo, not Purgatory. St. Augustine had posited Limbo, but it was never adopted as a doctrine by the Church. In the recent promouncement, the Church did not reject Limbo outright, but said a child dying in original sin without any other sin is not by necessity condemned to separation from God.

#7 | Posted by Diablo at 2009-10-21 10:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

Oh, my mistake. I get my fairy tales messed up sometimes.

Still, it was done so that parents wouldn't turn away from a church that tells them their babies aren't in heaven. Good marketing ploy on the Vatican's part.


Blame it on Dante.

Actually it was done because the theologians were loathe to make a final pronouncement on such a difficult subject, especially disagreeing with a giant like Augustine. The pastoral consideration of the guilt many women who regret abortions suffer was part of the motivation, I am sure.
Not everything is money and politics, y'know.

Maybe the CC --if allowing the Anglican priests to convert and stay married will allow CC priests to marry. Or join the priesthood already married.

Nothing wrong with reaching out to other churches.

They have always allowed clergy from other religions to remain married, Murphy, if they convert to RC. But it pretty much has been set in stone that is not going to change otherwise as a rule. The Orthodox do it the way the RC's used to (married priests okay, bishops a higher standard) but centuries ago they settled on the current standard of no marriage.
I have two childhood friends who became priests and they do not hesitate to tell me marriage would be an incredibly difficult thing given their obligations.

given their obligations

Don't get me wrong Diablo,but I can't understand that

Not that I can't believe that marriage can be incredibly difficult,LOL

Believe it or not, bruce (and I witness it first hand often) they work like mad. The typical diocese has them assigned to different duties all over the place from hospitals to nursing homes and such. It is not a sedentary lifestyle for most. Plus, what wife would feel comfortable with her husband hearing the confessions of other women and not being able to discuss them?

confessions of other women and not being able to discuss them?

Never thought of that.
Actually I was raised Episcopalion and they did have confessionals,never saw anyone in one though.

The Anglicans are more tight on confession than Episcopalians. In fact, one can go to an Anglican church and mistake it for Catholic very easily. They differed on few doctrines. The Anglicans have rosaries, too.
Interesting factoid: fully two-thirds of the signers of the Declaration were Anglican. After the war, about a half-dozen were. The strain between clergy loyalty to state and the rebels was a severe problem in the Revolution. The American trait of "church shopping" I believe got its start there.
I strongly feel the American Revolution was as much a revolt against both sides of the Reformation as against the king. They realized whoever was king could make all the different religions in the colonies (Unitarian to Fundamentalist to Catholic to Quaker) a potential powder keg.

What a misleading title for this thread. This initiative by the Pope has nothing to do with gay bashing. It is an attempt by the RC Church to bring some fellow travelers in Christ back into the fold.

#2 | Posted by moder8

Nothing to do with gay bashing?

Yer kidding, right?

The Pope is in a pickle.

His flock dwindles as more and more people decide that the hidebound dinosaur of a religion that is the "modern" Roman Catholic Church is not progressive enough.

Ergo, this move to snatch disaffected homophobes away from the divided Anglicans was almost inevitable in hindsight.

And if you think religious based intolerance of gays is not the main reason for the move fer most you need to think again.

Not just gay bashers, El Poppa Ratzi is also welcoming Christians retarded enough to buy into the whole "women aren't as good as men" bullshit into the fold as well.

Spud left the RC church a long time ago. Not cos of the whole "God is a human construct" thing or even the pedophile priest thing. Spud left the church specifically because their morality was inferior to Spud's. Not only that but in many instances they were calling for immoral acts* and trying to define them as morality.

/*Basically defining discrimination of gays and women as part of God's Plan (TM) while considering birth control a sin.

Plus Spud luffs sleeping in on Sundays.

Now some folks are choosing to join the Church fer the same reasons that caused Spud to leave.

Funny ole world.

Be Well.

/8 1/2 inches of starchy Liberal Fury, entering the DR
stage left.

/8 1/2 inches

Link?

"...St. Augustine had posited Limbo..."

#7 | Posted by Diablo at 2009-10-21 10:06 PM | Reply | Flag:


I thought it was Chubby Checker ?
www.youtube.com

Limbo? Pergatory?

Someone wanna show me Scripture showing either?

While you're at it show me the Scripture saying abortion is forbidden.

#9 and #10

wrong

and nanc hate on
its all you have.

hate.


we don't have those scandels is cause we don't ordain clergy.

there is NO system of clergy in islam.

each mosque has its own imam, and he can say or do what he wants...and he only speaks for himself not God.

The people are only obliged to listen to the word of God, not the word of any man who thinks he is close with God.


i love how you deflect to a different religion instead of your own.

and i love how one sect of christianity doesn't think the other sect is christian...
hate on.

#27

Scripture was repeatedly shown where God knew us at conception, etc...Snoofy.

I'm not rehashing this again.

Lisa was never a bible beater until she got married. She would be good friends with Niceville if he was still around.

Spark it up!

www.youtube.com

The recognized leader of the Roman Catholic church should be mindful of the responsibilities he has to make right the bad actions of those within his own flock before he extends advisement to those outside of it.

Could prove interesting if a large number of married Anglican priests switch over. Given the way the church shifts priests around, it could show a lot of current RCs that married priests, as originally intended pre-the Church's 1100s era cash grab, isn't as bad a thing as the Popes say. It'd be like Joseph Smith getting the Holy Text message about polygamy.

Lisa:

In other words, there is not a specific Scripture which by itself forbids abortion. You string together a few different pieces of Scripture to arrive at your conclusion.

The problem I have is that there are so many statements in the Bible, and many of them even contradict each other. You could string them together to mean anything. Here, let me show you.

In Genesis, Adam was imbued with a soul when God breathed life into him. Fetuses don't breathe, so God hasn't given them souls yet.

You see, the same way you determined God knows us at conception, I have determined, directly from Scripture, that God knows us when we take our first breath.

That's why it's ambiguous. What you conclude about abortion isn't really in the Bible. What I conclude about abortion isn't really in the Bible either. It's a matter of interpretation.

There are many things the Bible just doesn't have crystal-clear answers for. Abortion happens to be one of them.

/8 1/2 inches - SPUD

Talk about your fairy tales.

"Thou shalt not kill" is open to interpretation?

and i love how one sect of christianity doesn't think the other sect is christian...
hate on.
........#28 | Posted by klifferd

.....same as when one sect of Islam, calls another sect heretics, and issues fatwas to kill them......

.....all the while the irony of all religions who denigrate splinter sects, is that, they are all dickering over which delusion is more orthodox.....

When people rather kill a baby than kill an animal, there is some kind of moral twisting taking place.

To justify the abortion of humans and prosecute the abortion of kittens is a sad display on the account of "A womans right over her body."

The case has been made (by skizziks in the circumcision thread) that the fetus is not even part of the womans body. Therefore, she should have no right over it.

Also, the woman was only 1/2 of the means to conceive the child. The father also has rights in this situation, as does the unborn child as if it were left to fully grow, it would most likely breathe and therefore have rights.

To extinguish a life is to put yourself in the place of God as well. Last time I checked, placing the power to decide life and death was only to be given by God. I never saw God say, "It shalt be acceptable to smite your child before birth in the event that you do not want the child or displayed lack of responsibility resulting and a child and wish to pretend youself not culpable for that lack of responsibility and death of the child."


and i love how one sect of christianity doesn't think the other sect is christian...
hate on.
........#28 | Posted by klifferd


.....same as when one sect of Islam, calls another sect heretics, and issues fatwas to kill them......


.....all the while the irony of all religions who denigrate splinter sects, is that, they are all dickering over which delusion is more orthodox.....

#37 | Posted by skizziks at 2009-10-22 09:57 AM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e


When there are definitive terms and conditions as tho who is following and not following the religion, it is possible to make a case that those individuals are following less and therefore more likely not be what they claim to be.

Is this not why we have evidence in a criminal trial? We can be sure if the person is not lying or is lying, but the evidence gives more reason to think they may or may not be lying, based on the standards that are set and accepted.

There is something called accountability, we do have to make sure brothers and sisters are not deluding themselves that they have salvation when they very well may not.

Ezekiel 3:18-22

I like the way the title of the thread assumes any Anglican coming to the RCC is "angry." Why not call it an obligation of conscience? Hmmm? Another example of "those I don't agree with have a psychological disorder" school of thought.

"Thou shalt not kill" is open to interpretation?

"There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven:"
"a time to be born and a time to die, a time to plant and a time to uproot,"
"A time to kill, a time to heal, a time to tear down, a time to build up."

Strange, it looks like thou shalt kill after all, Diablo.

#39 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

......I thought you said you were'nt talking to me ?.......

......no liar like a religious liar.......

I like the way the title of the thread assumes any Anglican coming to the RCC is "angry."

Discontent, pissed, homophobic... there are a lot of suitable adjectives, but the headline has to be under a 60-word limit.

Why not call it an obligation of conscience? Hmmm?

Because that would be ridiculous. No one is morally obligated to convert to your preferred brand of insanity, Diablo.

Ok Skizz, call me a liar, and yet avoid putting up proof that I was not talking to you. Also make sure you provide proof that I said I would not talk to you ever and not simply in one particular thread.

Also, feel free to admit that you were wrong when you cannot find the proof that you

Also, the comment is more directed to Klifferd, you just happened to add to is slightly.

Don't think of yourself as more important than you really are Skizz, just because you are mentioned does not mean I am talking to you.

I think your fantasy neurons are playing tricks on you Skizz.

You see, the same way you determined God knows us at conception,

technically God knows every event from the beginning of the universe. No where is God quoted as saying "Didn't see that coming". Ergo evrything from the slavery of the jews to 9-11 and ther holocaust were permitted by God. Abortions, too.

###
"Thou shalt not kill" is open to interpretation?

If you are a cop, in the military or an executioner. also if you live in Texas you get to shoot anybody you want.

there is NO system of clergy in islam.

No ayatollahs, no sects?

Pull the other one, Klifferd.

I never saw God say, "It shalt be acceptable to smite your child before birth in the event that you do not want the child or displayed lack of responsibility resulting and a child and wish to pretend youself not culpable for that lack of responsibility and death of the child."

It's in the verse before "Thou shall carpet bomb the German children, cluster bomb Iraqi children and napalm the Vietnamese ones".

Two verses after "thou shall shoot suspects when they runneth faster than you."


A good Christian cannot kill. And given the short time you are on earth as compared to the infinite time you spend cloud hooping, it's strange christians object to other people advancing their trip to the Pearly Gates. after all, God had already planned their death.

This disenchanted/angry Episcopalians/Anglicans turn their backs on the church of their childhood over such weighty matters as whether gays and women are people and whether their supplications to their deity shall be in the 1928 or later language. It strikes me that Papa Benny may not exactly be wooing the cream of the crop. herm

I do not stand behind war, nor deadly force to any capacity.

If I am in a conflict, the most I would do is to incapacitate the person (without intentionally crippling or physically handicapping them). I suppose restrain would be a better word. The goal is the restrain the person until further assistance arrives to get them under control.

I think whe Jesus states to love your enemy, you have to do it. when he says feed your enemy, I think he we should do that. Give them something to drink, I think we should do that. If you attack the enemy, it only makes them more of an enemy.

If they are deadset on being your enemy, killing them, their people and innocent people around them is not going to change that. If they are not deadset on being your enemy, you killing their people, them and innocent people around them will make them deadset on being your enemy.

If you can show a difference between yourself and your enemy, it might cause them to think.

If one is to do this, they are in no way superior to their enemy either. They simply choose to do what the attacker does not.

The enemy is the enemy only in their conception, as a follow of Christ will have no one he views from he perspective as an enemy.

It strikes me that Papa Benny may not exactly be wooing the cream of the crop. herm

he's certainly getting the vintage of the crop.

#44 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

........you are such an idiot......


.....worse than that......an idiot with time on his hands........

Hey Skizz,

Have you proved where I have stated that I was not going to talk to you anymore in the sense of never again?

No?

Huh, I wonder why.

You can't even find facts in your own fantasy world. That's bad.

Have you proved
#53 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

.....don't have to ....you've proved everything....

Actually Skizz,

You failed to prove your assertion that I stated I was not talking to you.

Then when challenged, you cowered back into your fantasy world which even though fantasy is still devoid of fact (shown by your inability to come up with fantasy facts, let along real facts)and now duck the question.

Real logical, intellectual and mental integrity there fantasy man.

It's in the verse before "Thou shall carpet bomb the German children, cluster bomb Iraqi children and napalm the Vietnamese ones".

Two verses after "thou shall shoot suspects when they runneth faster than you."


A good Christian cannot kill. And given the short time you are on earth as compared to the infinite time you spend cloud hooping, it's strange christians object to other people advancing their trip to the Pearly Gates. after all, God had already planned their death.

#47 | Posted by northguy3 at 2009-10-22 12:06 PM | Reply | Flag:


North,

Good post, but you forgot 'nuke the Japanese children'.

"Thou shalt not kill" was supposed to mean "don't murder anyone." Killing as punishment is iffy. Killing in war is probably okay. Killing in jihad is cool, however.

#57-you are right, my bad.
#58-love people who correct God's immutable words.

Some Episcopalians who skew Anglo-Catholic aybe be wooed by the Pope but in the end I suspect few will make the jump. The majority who are more high to middle church are unlikely to leave

Interesting thing to note about the Episcopal Church here in the US is the presiding Bishop in the US Episcopal Church is elected by the bishops, priests and laity to a limited term in office. The other churches in the Anglican Communion are organized more along the lines of the Roman Catholic Church, with a Bishop serving a lifetime post. The American church actually reflects more directly the beliefs of its members. The current Presiding Bishop in the United States is a woman, originally trained as a scientist.

#57-you are right, my bad.
#58-love people who correct God's immutable words.

#59 | Posted by northguy3 at 2009-10-22 07:14 PM

The word "kill" in Exodus 20:13 and Deuteronomy 5:17 means "murder." The proper translation is THOU SHALT NOT MURDER. It is interesting that in Matthew 19:18 the KJV correctly translates the Sixth Commandment: "Thou shalt do no murder." The Hebrew word (ratsach) and the Greek Word (phonenō) which are used in the Sixth Commandment both clearly mean "murder."

You're welcome.

Note: hillbilly bible classes are frequently not very sophisticated, and some stuff is misrepresented.

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