Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs

Kansas City Business Journal:Seasonally adjusted unemployment insurance claims fell 6 percent nationally in the week that ended Oct. 3 and hit the lowest number since January, according to U.S. Department of Labor data. The number of claims fell for the fourth time in the past five weeks.

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Besides the fact that the numbers are manipulated, the differences are insignificant. It's only noise. Obama took a bad situation from his predecessor and made it worse.

I'm old enough to have been through several economic cycles.. and I've never seen it worse on the unemployment side.. educated, articulate, and skilled people are unemployed.. its not simply the unskilled bottom of the economic pie..

Its the producers out of work.. and they aren't encouraged by the manipulation of numbers..

I HOPE this is a trend signifying lower unemployment.. but I doubt it.

Sitting here with my thumb on the pulse of Corporate America hiring, I have to tell you, they are hiring like crazy at the moment. Most are employed executives, but the game of Executive Musical Chairs is in full swing.

This leads to new strategies, new directions and new jobs.

If you're betting against the US Economy at this stage, you're going to lose.

Sorry if you are not happy with this news, but it is reality.

I'm old enough to have been through several economic cycles.. and I've never seen it worse on the unemployment side..

Guess you weren't around for Reagan's first few years huh?

Or you're a partisan hack.

Or you're just dumb.

great arguments as always manypaths.. very lucid, very convincing.. must go over big at the prom.

I am going to go with you are just dumb and call it good.

Manypaths is right. It's dumb to disagree with him.

I'm old enough to have been through several economic cycles.. and I've never seen it worse on the unemployment side..

With statements so easily proven false such as that one, you would be a fool to argue with me.

Be accurate, and we can have a debate.

Care to give it a shot Ray? Your ass talking in #1 doesn't count.


I HOPE this is a trend signifying lower unemployment.. but I doubt it.

#2 | Posted by nmg_no


This is one of the reasons why it's gonna be slower than it should. Why would you doubt that eventually the economy will improve?

I can understand the extreme partisan nature of people, but doesn't common sense or scientific fact ever come into play?

The severity of the downturn, on an individual level, seems to me to be directly proportional to how secure you were before we started into it. And in what industry you worked. And how much you lived beyond your means during the boom times.

You do have to wonder why the story doesn't have the author's name and how come it's out of Kansas City.

I would call this one questionable at best.

"You do have to wonder why the story doesn't have the author's name and how come it's out of Kansas City.

I would call this one questionable at best.
#10 | Posted by mysterytoy at 2009-10-08 07:10 PM"


Actually, no (since it's neither an editorial column nor an opinion piece).

Of course, you could have just followed the Department of Labor link in the article:

www.dol.gov


With statements so easily proven false such as that one, you would be a fool to argue with me.
Be accurate, and we can have a debate.
Care to give it a shot Ray? Your ass talking in #1 doesn't count.
#8 | Posted by Manypaths

The feds own statistics say nmg_no is right and you are a Pollyanna.

4.bp.blogspot.com

The annual rate of change is descending into hell.

market-ticker.org

The worst is yet to come.

Three Government Reports Point to Fiscal Doomsday

Bu....bu....bu....bu.....bu...
I saved millions of jobs, the government lies when they say unemployment is almost 10%. Uh, wait....am I the government? Oops.


-Obammmy

That's because Obamafits are running out.

Show me the jobs.

Sitting here with my thumb on the pulse of Corporate America hiring, I have to tell you, they are hiring like crazy at the moment. Most are employed executives, but the game of Executive Musical Chairs is in full swing.
* * * * *

Wow. Well, that's great, because the "good news" from this morning is that "only" 521,000 NEW jobless claims were filed, when a lot more were expected. We'll see.


John started his day early having set his alarm clock


(Made in Japan) for 6 am.


While his coffee pot


(made in China) was perking, he shaved with his electric razor


(made in Hong Kong)


He put on a dress shirt


(made in Sri Lanka)


designer jeans


(made in Singapore)


and tennis shoes


(made in Korea).


After cooking his breakfast in his electric skillet


(made in India)


he sat down with his calculator


(made in Mexico)


to see how much he could spend today. After setting his watch


(made in Taiwan)


to the radio


(made in India)


he got in his car,


(made in Germany)


filled it with gas


(from Saudi Arabia)


and continued his search for a good paying American Job.


At the end of yet another discouraging and fruitless day he checked his computer


(made in Malaysia)


John decided to relax for a while. He put on his sandals


(made in Brazil)


Poured himself a glass of wine


(made in France)


and turned on his TV


(made in Indonesia)


and then wondered why he can't find a good paying job in AMERICA.

Manypaths is way way out in left field but it is fun watching him go nice and corky.

and then wondered why he can't find a good paying job in AMERICA.

Does Moneywar know, or does he think he knows when he doesn't?

Does anyone understand what ray is trying to say.

Does anyone understand what ray is trying to say.

I do, but I put as much stock in him as I do the lunatics who tell me the world is ending in December 2012

On the corner of Government and Bay Avenue
The old doomsday fanatic wore a crown of kudzu
Jimmy Buffet
Fruitcakes
Love in the Library

There is nothing I like better than to start the day with a laugh.


and then wondered why he can't find a good paying job in AMERICA.


#18 | Posted by moneywar


You forgot a few points;

1) we failed to insist on justice on wall street - criminals were not only allowed to exist but were monetarily rewarded for their illegal activities.

2) we killed and slaughtered innocents for the oil companies

3) we allowed those same people to try to instill extreme fears in the minds of americans to divert their attention from the reality of what just happened.

These esoteric things we have done have a larger impact on the economy than fiscal considerations.

"Besides the fact that the numbers are manipulated, the differences are insignificant. It's only noise. Obama took a bad situation from his predecessor and made it worse."

Close, but should read he took over a disaster but he at least is able to respond, not just sit there with a dumb look and a book for three year olds which he failed at being able to read.

LM

....the world is ending in December 2012

#22 | Posted by goatman

Are you trying to say that the world isn't ending in 2012? Well shit...I was hoping I'd bought my last car.


Show me the jobs.

#16 | Posted by mysterytoy

www.simplyhired.com<>

Well, manypaths, your getting pretty stupid. If that was supposed to show the jobs it has been just like the political shit we always see.

It doesn't work!!!

Noooooooooooooo!

obama's Fault! This good news is bad new for America! You just don't understand! Obama is STILL the Do-Nothing President!

--the WingNuts

so this means that 219,000 more people laid off is good news.

These stupid figures are NEW CLAIMS. The other MFers are still out of work. Obama and his apostles at the Dept of Labor can spin this shit any way they want, but things are bad and Obama is making it worse.

DonnerBoy

Along the same lines Limbaugh is claiming the Nobel Peace Prize awarded this morning is 'an embarrassment'.

#4 | Posted by Manypaths

Guess manypaths failed to remember that Regan's first few years were spent fixing Carters mess.

Regan's admin. repaired double digit unemp., double digit interest rates, gas "shortages", just to name a few. And, we had quite the economy by the time he left office.

Who ever follows Obama (Carter II) in '12 will have to do the same (plus the mess Bush left, but Obama isn't making that job any eaiser).

Who says obama is trying to make it better for this country?

obama is trying to make the world better even if it brings this country down, but that is what WTO is all about.

Awsome. Apparently we're running out of jobs to lose. Pretty soon we can have 100% unemployment and the jobless rate won't go up at all.

Overstated, but i think the point is clear.

They call it good news that a smaller number of people are losing their jobs and filing for unemployment. Never mind that all the people who's unemployment benefits have run out aren't even counted among the ranks of the unemployed, just call keep screaming that it's good news until somebody believes it. Meanwhile, we keep printing money to pay for service jobs that use hard items produced elsewhere. Economy: ready, set, inflate!

John started his day early having set his alarm clock (Made in Japan) for 6 am. While his coffee pot
(made in China) was perking, he shaved with his electric razor (made in Hong Kong) He put on a dress shirt (made in Sri Lanka) designer jeans
(made in Singapore) and tennis shoes (made in Korea). After cooking his breakfast in his electric skillet (made in India) he sat down with his calculator (made in Mexico) to see how much he could spend today. After setting his watch (made in Taiwan) to the radio (made in India) he got in his car, (made in Germany) filled it with gas (from Saudi Arabia) and continued his search for a good paying American Job. At the end of yet another discouraging and fruitless day he checked his computer (made in Malaysia) John decided to relax for a while. He put on his sandals (made in Brazil)
Poured himself a glass of wine (made in France)
and turned on his TV (made in Indonesia) and then wondered why he can't find a good paying job in AMERICA.

But, thankfully, he finally decided to go to bed (made in Mexico), pulled back the sheets (made in Switzerland) and found his callgirl (made in the good old U.S.A.)

and then wondered why he can't find a good paying job in AMERICA.

Then she said, "need a job?"


#18 | Posted by moneywar at 2009-10-08 09:53 PM | Reply | Edited by Petrous

Who says obama is trying to make it better for this country?

obama is trying to make the world better even if it brings this country down, but that is what WTO is all about.

Posted by moneywar at 2009-10-09 02:45 PM

I haven't been able to pay as much attention to politics as I usually did as I've been really busy of late but maybe I should start. I agree with you the WTO and the rest of the globalist organizations are all part and parcel of the "New World Order" and no matter which party has a president in office, higher "behind the scenes" powers really are the ones who call the shots.

Still, nothing was worse than the last Administration. At least Obama has done something to help the citizens of this country for a change -- advanced stem cell reseach, makes sure our national parks aren't privatized and sold off to the highest bidder, etc.

And a lot of the money in Obama's portion of the stimulas package has gone to rebuild our aging infrastructure here in this country. Sure beats the billions $$$$ spent rebuilding Iraq's infrasture (while ours crumbled) as Bush did with handing out billions of our tax dollars in no bid, cost plus war profiteering contracts parceled out to Bush's good buddies. And NONE of Bush's portion of the stimulus money went anywhere but into the pockets and profit margins of Bush's Wall Street banditos.

So on a tit for tat comparison basis, Obama has done more for you and me -- the regular guy -- than Bush ever did. In fact Bush gave the regular citizens of this nation absolutely NADA! Obama has a long way to go before he surpasses Bush as the worst prez ever. And you KNOW, $$$WAR, I am no partisan hack!

Have to run. Talk to you later.

Manypaths is right. It's dumb to disagree with him.

#7 | Posted by Ray

Manypaths is an idiot and now Ray has proven he is too, you CAN'T disagree with that.

At least Obama has done something to help the citizens of this country for a change.

Like?

Speaking of NWO and all things mysterious -- Where has my buddy JEFFnDENMARK been ???

Haven't seen him on DR lately. I miss him.


Anyone have the audio clips of the interview with the black people saying aboma was going to give them money?

www.moonbattery.com

At the 1:20 mark one of these societal leeches has the nerve to bitch about the lack of accountability from the city...Fucking amazing.

I noticed a pattern in the crowd.

Anyway, all of those lazy fucks decided to wait until the last day, the day the filled out applications were due, to show up and get an application! What a bunch of lazy fucking welfare queens.

Here ya go, 101. True ghetto logic.

www.youtube.com

#37 | Posted by CalifChris

Poor misguided soul...

Obama has increased the national debt 3x in just 9 months, "his" stimilus package is anything but, it is mostly pork, stem cell research has proven futile unless adult stem cells are used and that was protocal during the Bush years, he has cowered to our enemies, alienated our allies, given terrorists American citizen rights in our courts of law, ACORN Obama's good buddies have received millions and were slated to receive BILLIONS till they got caught with their pants down, what are we up to, 32 czars? Buddies? The list goes on.

Bush made LOTS of mistakes, but he by far, was not the worst prez. So far, that belongs to Carter and Obama is trying to take over that job.

"Obama has increased the national debt 3x in just 9 months"

That's a bald-faced lie.

The University I work at just announced that our Iowa state budget is going to be even worse off, and our Governor (Culver) is cutting budgets across the board, by 10%. They're saying this may necessitate layoffs and furloughs. Is it customary for an organization to announce the possibility of layoffs before they're even sure they're going to happen?

*hoping I won't be one of these new jobless claims

#45 | Posted by Danforth

I stand corrected, I did mis-speak (type).
If he serves 2 terms, at the pace he is on, he will tripple the debt. (God forbid we see a second Obama term).

Since Inauguration day he has increased the national debt over 10%.

I do apologize for the error and will work on my editing skills!!


www.theobamadebt.com

blog.heritage.org

#46 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

It is customary, happened to myself and wife last year (announcement not laid off). Happened again this year where I work, they are waiting till the frist half of the fiscal year is over to decide wo, if anyone will go.
Good luck to you.

Guess manypaths failed to remember that Regan's first few years were spent fixing Carters mess.


Regan's admin. repaired double digit unemp., double digit interest rates, gas "shortages", just to name a few. And, we had quite the economy by the time he left office.

Nope, I remember all too well that this place was a mess when Reagan took over. The county had gone through a terrible period with the Nixon/Ford term and we got stuck with a crappy President in Carter that didn't do much to help things.

Guessing you fail to remember that Obama has been in office for 10 months and you are expecting the same results that tok Reagan 6-8 years to achieve.

Just landed another executive! $36k baby!!!!!

(Yeah, the econmoy isn't getting better or anything)

"Since Inauguration day he has increased the national debt over 10%."

Huh? We're barely a week into his first budget.

#49 | Posted by Manypaths

Come on!! Put aside the dem/repub/left/right shit and use some sence.

Look at the spending going on, look at the $$ being borrowed for that spending, as a country WE ARE BROKE.
Look what is out of the hands of the private sector, where all money is made, the gov't doesn't make money they take it and spend it...

2 of 3 American auto makers
Over 60 financial instutitions
90% of the morgtages (Fannie & Freddie)
80% of student loans and trying to outlaw private instutitions from making them
1/6th of our economy in health care
the ear mark ladden "stimilus" plan

He could be in office for 100 years and will never have the success that Regan had because it's not his nature. His upbringing and education are rooted in marxism and socialism. I am not saying he is those things, but his ideals are. Do some reading and you will find that out for yourself.

But we are STILL losing jobs...where are all the stories that we had when Bush was in office "Bush loses 3 million jobs" ...I saw that mantra over and over and over again on this web site...and that was after 911..

Where is the Obama loses 10M jobs?

#51 | Posted by Danforth

So all the money he has been spending until now doesn't count?
If you recall, the job has been his since Jan. 20th.

Look at the spending going on, look at the $$ being borrowed for that spending, as a country WE ARE BROKE.

Deficits don't matter. Reagan proved that.


Now put your political hat aside and tell me what is going on now that Reagan didn't do? Numbers changed, but Reagan borrowed his way out of his mess too. Unemployment got higher under Reagan for almost 3 years. Remember? You look at what is going on right now.

See you in 7 years and we can compare.

#53 | Posted by foshaffer

Yep, and nobody has suggested that we would stop losing jobs yet. That lagging indicator has not hit the bottom like other indicators have. It will continue to rise for 6 months. Then watch it.

Deficits don't matter. Reagan proved that.

Sorry to tell you this. They do, this time, when the feds are out of credit.

That lagging indicator has not hit the bottom like other indicators have. It will continue to rise for 6 months. Then watch it.

Not for as long as that great job killing machine-government-is doing everything in its power to take capital out of the private market.

#55 | Posted by Manypaths

Correction, Regan borrowed his way out of Carter's mess.

And, then we let the free market do it's thing, which is bring in revenue. Now, the gov't is snatching up any & everything it can to control.

Back then the dollar ment something, now our dollar is a joke. Regan did run big deficits and he was wrong on that account, deficits do matter, because that money has to be paid back, but he wasn't printing the dollar like there is no tomorrow and that is being done now.

Then, other countries (China) wasn't afraid to buy our debt, they saw the direction we were headed, can't really say that today.

And, most of the surplus that Clinton liked to claim was a result of "Reganomics". So what Regan did worked. And in 7 years, the '12 election winner (won't be Obama) will still have their work cut out for them.

weren't not wasn't

"Correction, Regan borrowed his way out of Carter's mess.

And, then we let the free market do it's thing, which is bring in revenue. Now, the gov't is snatching up any & everything it can to control.

Back then the dollar ment something, now our dollar is a joke. Regan did run big deficits and he was wrong on that account, deficits do matter, because that money has to be paid back, but he wasn't printing the dollar like there is no tomorrow and that is being done now.

Then, other countries (China) wasn't afraid to buy our debt, they saw the direction we were headed, can't really say that today.

And, most of the surplus that Clinton liked to claim was a result of "Reganomics". So what Regan did worked. And in 7 years, the '12 election winner (won't be Obama) will still have their work cut out for them.
#58 | Posted by seedeez2 at 2009-10-09 04:13 PM"


Wow. Where to begin...

Let's start with debunking that tired/old Carter/Reagan canard:

www.huppi.com


Then, about that "free market":
Let me know when it starts so we can evaluate it ;-)!


Then, about the deficits and dollars, etc.:

Actually, you're FINALLY onto something. Well..., except for the Reagan "wasn't printing the dollar like there was no tomorrow, etc.". I'll believe THAT when you link it!!!


And finally: "And, most of the surplus that Clinton liked to claim was a result of "Reganomics". So what Regan did worked. And in 7 years, the '12 election winner (won't be Obama) will still have their work cut out for them."

So..., you REALLY believe it took 10-15 YEARS for what Reagan did "to work"? And somehow it all magically vaporized in a few MONTHS after GWB took office??? Color me SKEPTICAL!

This chart shows federal debt going parabolic. The borrowing and spending is totally out of control.

2.bp.blogspot.com

U.S. Job Losses May Be Even Larger, Model Breaks Down (Update1)

Oct. 2 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. economic slump earlier this year was so severe it short-circuited the government's model for calculating payrolls, raising the risk that today's jobs report may be too optimistic.

About 824,000 more jobs may be subtracted from the payroll count for the 12 months through last March when the figures are officially revised early next year, a Labor Department report showed today. The revision would be the biggest since at least 1991.

The bulk of the miss occurred in the calculations for the first quarter of this year, the Labor Department said. The economy shrank at a 6.4 percent annual pace in the first three months of 2009, the worst performance since 1982.

The figures raise the possibility that the government's calculations continue to miss the mark.

"We are probably still underestimating job losses," said John Silvia, chief economist at Wells Fargo Securities LLC in Charlotte, North Carolina. "There could be another 30,000 to 40,000" that the data isn't picking up, he said.

That would mean the loss of jobs for September could turn out to be as high as 300,000, rather than the 263,000 reported today by the Labor Department. Today's report also showed the jobless rate climbed to 9.8 percent last month, a 26-year high.

The potential revision for the year through last March would mean that the economy lost 5.6 million jobs for the period instead of the 4.8 million now on the books.

www.bloomberg.com

The biggest buyer of government debt is ... roll the drums ... the Federal Reserve!

jsmineset.com

Another victory for Obama. Just think of the millions of jobs he has saved since he scared us into passing the Generational Theft Act aka Stimulus bill to keep the unemployment rate from hitting 8.5%.

Phew! We definitely need more tax and spend libs managing our affairs.

What is it that the Bush haters were saying? Oh yeah, "the numbers dropped because people have given up on finding work". Of course that was when unemployment was 6% back in 2004.

Now Obama has driven unemployment to 10% and people really have given up on finding work.

Hopey and Buz-
Either of you remember about a year ago today, at the end of his EIGHT YEAR TENURE when Bush went on the TV with a very worried look on his face and announced he was pushing for the bailouts in order to stave off total economic collapse just a few months before the new President took office?

Everyone else does.

Everyone else does.

Well, the backwards looking ones do. Some of us are smart enough to know that the past can't be changed and nothing is accomplished playing the blame game. We want to look forward and change the things we can, not look back and whine about the things we can't.

At least you have a short-term memory (and the intense will to deny it, of course), Goatman, which is more than I can say for some others.

But it's still not saying much.

BTW, dude (Goatman): I'm sorry the world looks to the US again for leadership (bummer for you!), but at least we got turned down as a host for the Olympics!!!!

Rah fucking Rah to you and yours...

been a lot of fun, but gotta run

later blog

At least you have a short-term memory

(my nightly asking of the question you are scared shitless of to answer)

Why do you play the childish game of assigning false positions to others every single night?

Since you won't answer, I'll state the obvious:

Because you have a child-like mind. If that answer is wrong, please provide the correct one.

"nothing is accomplished playing the blame game"

Huh?

It sure helps in knowing who not to trust next time.

Santayana had something to say in that regard, iirc....

BTW, dude (Goatman): I'm sorry the world looks to the US again for leadership (bummer for you!), but at least we got turned down as a host for the Olympics!!!!

I know. You've been saying that every night for the last few nights, man-child. I get it.

later blog

#71 | Posted by BetelG at 2009-10-09 11:54 PM | Reply | Flag: Next literary entry: Dear Diary, I again played my childlike games on the DR further underscoring the fact I have a 13 YO mind . . .

It sure helps in knowing who not to trust next time.

Read the 22nd amendment and you mind will be at rest.

Besides, is there anyone who doesn't know who is to blame? I didn't think so. So my original assertion stands: Looking back and playing the blame game accomplishes nothing.

"Read the 22nd amendment and you mind will be at rest"

Read John McCain's voting record and you'll realize as the country was moving further away from Bush, McCain was moving closer. A 90% average over 8 years, and roughly 95% in the last two. And once McCain embraced tax cuts for the rich and the religious right, many realized McCain would merely be Bush 44.

"my original assertion stands"

As does my original rebuttal.

Read John McCain's voting record and you'll realize as the country was moving further away from Bush, McCain was moving closer. A 90% average over 8 years, and roughly 95% in the last two. And once McCain embraced tax cuts for the rich and the religious right, many realized McCain would merely be Bush 44.

OK. But we keep hearing bush, bush, bush, though. Besides, I thought the election is over, isn't it?

So what is the point? What is accomplished saying the 'B' word over and over?

It gets the spotlight off of the messiah and his continuing breaking of campaign promises and failures, that's what's accomplished

"What is accomplished saying the 'B' word over and over?"

Huh? You were the one against playing the "blame game", as if another Republican would have suddenly changed the course of the country. I've voted for both parties over the years (only pulled a single-ticket lever twice, in 1998 and 2006), and the prior administration was the worst governance I've ever experienced. Electing Bush 44 would have, for example, probably led to a war in Iran, and would definitely have given Scalia control over the direction of jurisprudence for a generation. Not Acceptable.

As far as Obama, I've stated numerous times I've disagreed with most of what he's done. I don't like most of his appointments, I disagreed with the Cash for Clunkers program, I don't think we should be pumping more money into house purchases, and I'm completely against cap & trade. I also think he was foolish to claim the middle class wouldn't see tax increases, as I believe we're ALL going to have to help dig us out of this mess.

That doesn't mean we can't still look at the past, and ask, for example, who's economy we would rather have inherited: the one Bush got, with surpluses as far as the eye could see, or the one Obama got, fresh off a meltdown of historical proportions. Anyone who refuses to learn deserves their fate. We should continue to remember who drove the ship of state off the cliff for as long as it takes to right it, and then after that remember who screwed up so phenomenally, so we never put idiots like that in power again.

I pretty much agree with what you said, danforth, but it still doesn't answer my question: What is gained by saying "Bush's fault" over and over? We all know Bush is to blame. It's no secret.

later blog

Posted by BetelG at 2009-10-09 11:54 PM


G'night, BetelG. As always, you make it fun and provide a lot of laughs.

"What is gained by saying "Bush's fault" over and over? We all know Bush is to blame. It's no secret."

Then why are you afraid of the truth? Most of the rise of unemployment, for example, isn't because of anything Obama has done, despite the fact some righties on this blog and elsewhere blame him. If anything, the stimulus has kept the unemployment numbers lower than they would have been otherwise. (For the record, I think the stimulus is too big, and includes too much pork.) For another, Obama inherited two wars, one completely unnecessary, and one completely under-tended. So the problems in both can be called "Bush's fault". Now, what Obama does going forward is on him, no doubt, but we both know, for example, an overnight pullout from Iraq would cause chaos in it's wake. We also know ending a war is a lot more difficult that beginning one. Someone asked me when it would be Obama's economy, and I answered about a year after he took office. What I didn't say is I don't believe the economy will be better under Obama. I actually believe it will be worse. But I also believe it would be just as bad under McCain, as the deficits were set to spike once Bush left office anyway, and it will only get exacerbated as the baby boomers begin to hit 65, which is now a matter of months, not years. Bush was probably the last President that had a chance to change that course, given the surpluses he had laid at his feet. Instead, he opted for tax cuts targeted for the richest, and a war of choice. We'll be paying for things that were "Bush's fault" for a long time, and as long as we are, it's proper to keep placing the blame where it rightfully belongs. But believe me, I wish it weren't that way: I wish Dubya would have left the country in as good a shape as did his predecessor. Isn't that supposed to be part of the job?

Then why are you afraid of the truth?

I'm not afraid of the truth. The truth is we should focus on what we can change and not on what we can't.

With all your rhetoric of several posts, you still haven't stated a positive outcome of continuous repitition of "Bush's fault, Bush's fault". Indeed, you simply further engaged in it.

For the nth (I love that word. It's the only one in the English language without a vowel.) time, I know it's mostly Bush's fault. And I'm pretty sure anyone who hasn't been sequestered from society the last year knows that, too.

Obama will do nothing to stop the flow of jobless, nothing he has done so far does it.

The money packages obama has given so far has done nothing, the layoffs will continue until WAGES go up, but alas, the wages are still going down causing less consumption. And so it goes!

Wages are the key and have always been the key for our economy for 30 to 40 years now.

Jobs need to be created...period. The jobs paying minimum wage will not cut it and that is exactly what obama is doing.

Ray will claim the opposite. He thinks Americans are grossly overpaid.

Ray will claim the opposite. He thinks Americans are grossly overpaid.
#85 | Posted by jackass

Don't let the facts change your mind.

Obama will do nothing to stop the flow of jobless, nothing he has done so far does it.
Jobs need to be created...period. The jobs paying minimum wage will not cut it and that is exactly what obama is doing.

Actually, he's been following Moneywar's philosophy of trying to keep prices and wages from falling. It didn't work for Hoover. It didn't work for Roosevelt. And I won't work for Obama. It's only making matters worse.

Massive amounts of debt have to be extinguished. Prices and wages have to readjust to a lower level. And Americans have to return to what made us wealthy - small government, savings and production.

"Massive amounts of debt have to be extinguished. Prices and wages have to readjust to a lower level. And Americans have to return to what made us wealthy - small government, savings and production.
#87 | Posted by Ray at 2009-10-10 09:13 AM"


While I don't necessarily disagree with your premises/solutions, I'd add to (or modify?) them by adding that what made the US wealthy (besides the obvious abundance of natural resources) is INNOVATION and INFRASTRUCTURE. Investments in items that promote innovation/infrastructure (e.g., education, communication, transportation, etc.) have (and WILL!) yield benefits vastly beyond their initial effort/cost.

" Investments in items that promote innovation/infrastructure "


Ray doesn't believe in that kind of stuff. Interstate Highway? Who needs it? What's wrong with covered wagons?

#88 | Posted by TrueBlue

That's irrelevant to what I posted.

Anyone who refuses to admit that unemployment is at an all time high and getting worse as the present dumb-o-cratic administration continues to dismantle America and our Constitution, is either decieving himself, or retarded, or both of the above, and has no rights to lay any blame on the republicans for anything, or any reason...

"#88 | Posted by TrueBlue

That's irrelevant to what I posted.
#90 | Posted by Ray at 2009-10-10 04:40 PM"


Let me see if I understand what you are saying, Ray:

You stated "And Americans have to return to what made us wealthy - small government, savings and production."

I then stated that I (while not disagreeing with what you stated) would add investing in innovation and infrastructure for us to become wealthy.

Your response is then that my post is irrelevant to what you posted???

You might disagree that innovation and infrastructure are important, but to claim they are not relevant to what you posted is ludicrous!


Alms, Alms for the poor, Alms, Alms,

finance.yahoo.com^GSPC#chart2:symbol=^gspc;
range=20090121,20091009;
indicator=volume;
charttype=line;crosshair=on;
ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;
source=undefined

finance.yahoo.com^DJI#chart1:symbol=^dji;
range=20090121,20091009;
indicator=volume;
charttype=line;crosshair=on;
ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;
source=undefined

you know.

its kinda funny..

From the data im lookin at, the economy is doin pretty sweet under obamma.

i know my investments have done well.
And if you got smacked in the head by the last correction...
Well..
perhaps its time to consider a different strategy.

I hear gold is doing well, why dont you buy some at HISTORIC HIGH PRICES...

LoL.

bah those links didnt work well.

in any case.. they both show 30%+ growth since the market bottomed out in March.

"the 'B' word "

I like it! We can't even spell it out, but must abbreviate it as if it were an unmentionable and vile smear....

You do remember defending the actions of "the 'B' word" as if you were a wind-up toy tasked to that duty for an eight year stint as a wind-up display in a shop window?

It's so yesterday to remind you of yesterday, I suppose...

John McCain's voting record . . McCain was moving closer (to Bush). A 90% average over 8 years, and roughly 95% in the last two.
#77 | Posted by Danforth - FLAG: got a link
to Bush's voting record? got a link to ANY president's voting record?
just sayin'

they both show 30%+ growth since the market bottomed out in March.
#95 | Posted by Valisk - FLAG: RECOVERY isn't considered GROWTH
just sayin' II

**of note;
the Bamster has been in office for nearly 4 yrs with his party holding majority control for the entirety. . .
if you're gonna poke Bush in the eye, also take a poke at Pelosi, Reid, Wrangle, Dodd, and your local Congressmen & senators . . . also, poke yourself in the eye for allowing them to remain in office

its a lie

don't believe it

You might disagree that innovation and infrastructure are important, but to claim they are not relevant to what you posted is ludicrous!
#92 | Posted by TrueBlue

I don't dispute the importance of infrastructure. I assume you are aware it is falling into disrepair. That is a symptom of the destruction of wealth and the burden of debt that has been accumulating since the 70s.

As I outlined in #87, our financial infrastructure has to be restored to health before the means are available to restore our physical infrastructure. The most modern infrastructure in the world would be of little value if it can't be utilized.

sunday fox; didn't know whether to laugh or cry

they had;
a) Mich Gov (D) - praising the stim, excuses, blame, no money, 15% unemployment

b) Ind Gov (R) - budget surplus, scrambling to help business

c) the economist who wrote Stim I - ONE CLUELESS ELITE ACADEM SOB

d) the CEO of Wynn resorts - self insures a payroll of 20,000 + employees
& clearly "gets it" - -
he politely but clearly called the econ guy, Mich Gov, & Obama econ policies incompetent & counterproductive, developed by people who had read some books, BUT NEVER produced anything - - he noted that the bookworms had their shot at fixing things and just fucked up royally - -

I thought the econ guy was gonna cry

" 'You might disagree that innovation and infrastructure are important, but to claim they are not relevant to what you posted is ludicrous!
#92 | Posted by TrueBlue'

"I don't dispute the importance of infrastructure. I assume you are aware it is falling into disrepair. That is a symptom of the destruction of wealth and the burden of debt that has been accumulating since the 70s.

As I outlined in #87, our financial infrastructure has to be restored to health before the means are available to restore our physical infrastructure. The most modern infrastructure in the world would be of little value if it can't be utilized.
#99 | Posted by Ray at 2009-10-11 01:49 PM"


I did read your post #87 and I assume you had intended to state: "And IT won't work for Obama" instead of what you did state: " And I won't work for Obama", unless it was a Freudian slip ;-)!

OK, so you do think infrastructure is important (and therefore, "relevant").

I agree that our infrastructure is in disrepair. NOTE: So far, I have only been referring to the PHYSICAL infrastructure in my posts, but your generalization of "infrastructure" to include FINANCIAL infrastructure has some validity, too.

However, I think we disagree on the proper/best sequence of physical infrastructure repair. I believe the physical infrastructure can (even MUST) be in place before the financial infrastructure. To draw an analogy: a field must be prepared prior to planting a crop. Farmers often will borrow $$$ to prepare their fields. They recognize that without proper field preparation ("physical infrastructure"), there will not be a successful harvest. You might be inclined to point out that the financial infrastructure makes it possible to invest in the "physical infrastructure". OK, but consider this: if one wants to attract new business into an area, is a business more likely to risk bringing their industry into an area with sound financials or into an area with sound physical infrastructure? A similar argument could be made for attracting eager/productive people for the associated communities.

The point is this: while sound financial infrastructure is certainly advantageous, it is not REQUIRED for developing the physical infrastructure. Sound financials do not guarantee sound physical infrastructure. I'd even go so far as to say the financial infrastructure can (and often DOES) follow sound physical infrastructure. You might not agree and, as in most situations, it's rarely as simplistic and black/white situation as I've described.

The point is this: while sound financial infrastructure is certainly advantageous, it is not REQUIRED for developing the physical infrastructure.

Don't think you're the only one with ideas on how to spend money we don't have. There is always the Federal Reserve.

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