And he's decided that foreign affairs, including a war, isn't as important as every single piddling item on his domestic agenda.
......#4 | Posted by rightisright

.....that would be correct.......

....the insurance companies kill over 40 thousand Americans each year by with-holding/denying health services......

....Taliban & Al Qaida put together have only killed about 5,000 in ten years......

......and yes it would be an embarrassing turn-around for Obama since he, (as I did) did say that Afghanistan is the justified war against terror....

.....but it has become a pointless stalemate where we are propping up a narco-dictator who just stole the elections......

......nothing to gain......just money and soldiers to lose.......

......bring our boys home.......

....the insurance companies kill over 40 thousand Americans each year by with-holding/denying health services......

LOL

.......#7 | Posted by eberly

....yes.....that's the standard Republican response to human misery.......

.....so look it up for yourself and then come back and apologize......

......you see Eb....not only did I not make up the number, I was conservative with it.......

.....the insurance industry hides the true number of people that they kill by denying them life saving health care when they get sick........

......the Republicans are ok with this American holocaust because they have been paid off......

......some Democrats like Baucus have also been paid off .......

.....so unless you have better numbers than Harvard University......you should stop defending the murderers.....

......I am continually taken aback, though no longer surprised, at how the supposidly religious, pro-life people, are happy to allow the insurance industrty to murder people for profit.......

......oh.....and don't let me stop you from LOL...

....that's what you and your party do when people are killed for profit......

#13 | Posted by gitmboy

.....what's your point ?......

#15 | Posted by crispee_oc

......you are deflecting all over the place......

.....an ex-insurance industry executive, under oath at a Senate hearing, testified that it was a common practice to deny people coverage when they got sick, even if they were paid up, to increase profits......in effect killing the patient......

......the current presidents of the three largest insurance companies confirmed to the Senators that they engaged in this practice, when they were each asked in turn if they would voluntarily stop the practice, they said no, because it would impact profits, and they were answerable to the SHAREHOLDERS, not the patients.......

......this is no secret guys, this has been going on openly because of the system we have.....

......"pre-existing condition" is just one of many pretenses that insurance companies have for killing off people through reduction or with-holding of medical care........

.......I think forty thousand is a pretty conservative number when measuring the number of people murdered for insurance profits......the real number I think is much higher.....but we will never know, because the insurance industry wants to hide its crimes......

The National Center for Policy Analysis, a Washington think tank that backs a free-market approach to health care, said researchers overstated the death risk and did not track how long subjects were uninsured.
......#15 | Posted by crispee_oc

.....the NCPA is a mouthpiece for the murderers....

....and of course they back competition, as long there is NO competion with a public plan, because then they cannot rig the system as they have done it up till now.....

I am trying to figure out how YOU can say I deflected anything.
......#18 | Posted by crispee

.....you seem to be trying to justify the killing/murder of all these Americans by the insurance industry......

......are you opposed to regulations, and a public option, that would stop the slaughter ?......

Some critics called the study flawed.
.....#15 | Posted by crispee_oc

.....they are policy whores......will back whoever pays them .....in this case the insurance industry..

Now who's deflecting? What do they have to do with the research numbers. They have to do with the accuracy. Which in my opinion falls well short. Based on your non respnse to my question, maybe you do as well.
.....#21 | Posted by crispee_oc

.....we will never know the exact number of people that the insurance companies murder each year for profit.....

......I believe that 40 thousand is a conservative estimate, if you believe that it is closer to 30 thousand, that may be, but we do know that they kill Americans by the thousands, they have verified as much in Senate hearings that were on C-Span........

.....my question is.......do you support these murders ??.....because the people who oppose health care change are, in effect, supporting the American holocaust......

......you see Eb....not only did I not make up the number, I was conservative with it.......

If there are 46 million uninsured in this country then how does lack of insurance cause 45,000 deaths?

#26 | Posted by eberly

.....not all the uninsured / or those with insurance that is revoked - will get sick at the same time, and die the same day......

.....if they did......the problem would have resolved itself on day one........

.....but basically Eb and Crispy......

.....to support what the insurance companies are doing, is to support self-confessed murderers......

and insurance companies shamefully deny coverage at very critical times and cancel people when they get sick. I'm certainly not defending that.
......#29 | Posted by eberly at 2009-10-05 02:35 PM | Reply

......so whether it's ten thousand people a year, or a hundred thousand people a year.......would you not support fixing the problem ?.......

.....to support what the insurance companies are doing, is to support self-confessed murderers......

why stop there? You might as well put the gun in my hands too. hateful retard.
......#29 | Posted by eberly

.......I don't hate anybody.....I am sorry if it makes you uncomfortable when I point out that, if a person supports what the insurance companies are doing, then they are supporting legalized killings.......but the facts are not disputable....I don't know if you caught their testimony on C-SPan but the insurance execs even told the Senators that they would not stop unless the laws were changed......they were killing people legally........

......there are many people, like you, who are supporting the status quo without fully working out all the results of what that support means........I'm the one that is agitating to save people, I don't understand why you think that this would make me "hateful"......

go fuck yourself
lying POS

.....#33 | Posted by eberly

.....way to stick to the issues......a class act as always.....

you really get lost when you realize that you can't argue with me don't you?
.....#38 | Posted by eberly

.......it's true....it is an effort to keep it as monosyllabic as possible with simple ideas that won't confuse you......but I make the effort ....

way to run like a pussy when being called on the carpet.
......#38 | Posted by eberly

.......called on the carpet ? .....you don't know the facts, and when I show them to you, you respond by calling me names........

dolt
......#38 | Posted by eberly

.......there you go again.......

I laughed at the 40,000 number.
......#38 | Posted by eberly

.....and it's a conservative estimate, the numbers that the insurance company kills is most likely much higher.....but keep on laughing......as I said at the start here.......LOL is the standard Republican response to human suffering ......you are simply living up to the caricature.......

So wouldn't common sense dictate your hate and anger towards the Senators? You know, the ones that can change the law? Or does your ire not apply because the dems would be target.
.....#32 | Posted by crispee_oc

....first.....I don't hate anybody.....but I do think that what the insurance industry is doing is legalized murder......

....second.....I hold both Republicans and Democrats equally responsible for the state of affairs, and in my post#11, which I pasted below, I made a point of not only calling out the Democrats who were paid off, but naming the Democratic Senator who got the most money.....you can scroll back to #11 and verify it was a paste.....

......the Republicans are ok with this American holocaust because they have been paid off......
......some Democrats like Baucus have also been paid off .......
#11 | Posted by skizziks

Look at the fucking thread and remember who brought the Insurance industry into the conversation. Here is a hint, he posts like this
........ #5..... Posted by skizziks at 2009-10-05 12:35 PM ........ ........
#37 | Posted by crispee_oc

.....and if you had gone back one post earlier, you would see that it was rightisright who compared the importance of the war to the domestic agenda, he's the one who compared domestic issues to international concerns.....I disagreed with him.....because frankly our own insurance companies kill more Americans in a month, than the terrorists have done in a decade........I pasted it below for you, so that you can see the error of your ways......

And he's (Obama) decided that foreign affairs, including a war, isn't as important as every single piddling item on his domestic agenda.
#4 | Posted by rightisright

......no need to apoligize crispee......

It doesn't even make sense.
.....#41 | Posted by eberly

........it does not make sense to you......

I know you wished it was higher
......#41 | Posted by eberly

.....you're mind reading is not working out......

.....I want it to be lower, that's why I'm promoting a solution that will make it lower.....

because it fuels your ideology and hatred.
......#41 | Posted by eberly

.....I'm a pragmatist......

....if you find that ideology objectionable, then think for a minute what company that puts you in...

I hold both Republicans and Democrats equally responsible for the state of affairs,

Lying POS

#42 | Posted by eberly

.....I have pasted my post # 11 here for you.....

......the Republicans are ok with this American holocaust because they have been paid off......
......some Democrats like Baucus have also been paid off .......
#11 | Posted by skizziks

.....no please, Eb, don't apologize......oh well, o.k......see, being a pragmatist, I hold no party over country, and I hold no party blameless if they kill Americans, or allow them to be killed through omission......

....that being said....the Republicans seem to be complete corporate whores.....whereas among the Democrats, only about a half of them seem to have sold out......

t's just a number Skizziks, nothing more. and you can't justify it.
.....#47 | Posted by eberly

........it's a Harvard University study, if I were to disagree with it, based on anecdotal evidence, I would say the number is much higher.......

.....but I don't want it to be higher.....I want it to be zero......why should anyone in this country be left to die because we have a disfunctional health care payment system ?.....

I had already saw that when I called you a lying POS.

and it still stands

#49 | Posted by eberly

.....I see you won't let facts get in the way of your opinion....

.....I guess that's just the man that you are.....

You read that post as and found a reason to invoke the stupid made up number about Insurance companies?
#52 | Posted by crispee_oc

......I don't have a number myself, however, the one presented by Harvard University is NOT being challenged by the insurance industry, the only reason they would not challenge it, would be that the true number is much higher......

........as for myself, I would assume that the number is in the hundreds of thousands......

.......so how many people do you think they kill a year ?.......

You have no "anecdotal" evidence.
.....#55 | Posted by eberly

......that is the nature of anecdotal evidence....

......sorry.....I am not keeping things simple enough.......

bullshit. you WANT it to be higher
.....#55 | Posted by eberly

.....it's a researched conclusion by scientists at Harvard, my wants are immaterial to the study, though what you think I want, seems to be effecting you emotionally......

....now.....back to some simple work......

.....now let's agree with you, and Harvard, and the insurance industry which has not challenged the number, for a moment, that the number is just 40 thousand a year, not a single one more......

......will you continue to support the killing of 40 thousand Americans a year in order to maximize insurance industry profits.??......

I don't deny that being uninsured for a lengh of time will lead to unnessesary deaths.

#58 | Posted by eberly

.....thank you......

....what is also disconcerting in our system, is that the insurance companies have people whose full time job is disqualifying people who are paid up, but get sick........

.....that should be outlawed.......

you wish.

#59 | Posted by eberly

.....I wish the opposite......

You claimed it was in RiR's post? What gives? Bad enough it never belonged, even worse when you run from the link.
.....#56 | Posted by crispee_oc

......ok crispee, put your thinking cap on.......

.....rightisright said that the war should be more important to Obama than a piddling domestic issue, and I said that Obama was right to focus on domestic issues, because domestic issues impact American lives more than the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan.......

......in other words.....our own insurance companies kill more Americans than the Taliban, Al Qaida and Iraqi militias by a long shot.......

......do you understand now, or did you want me to break it down into single syllables ?......

......will you continue to support the killing of 40 thousand Americans a year in order to maximize insurance industry profits.??......
#60 | Posted by skizziks at 2009-10-05 04:38 PM

Will you continue to be blind to the fact we are the fattest nation in the industrialzed world? #64 | Posted by crispee_oc

.....deflection......not an answer......I will just have to conclude that you do support the killing of Americans for profit......

......don't tell me , you're a pro-life Christian ?...am I right ?.....

What ever the actual number.....it is TOO high.
.....#63 | Posted by eberly

.....see......there's something we can agree on.....

Will you continue to be blind to the fact we are the fattest nation in the industrialzed world?
.....#64 | Posted by crispee_oc

.....I am not blind to it at all, but what does it have to do with insurance companies killing off people for profit.??.....

Contender for melodramatic post of the year
......#70 | Posted by goatman

.....more concise than most people put it, but that is in effect what the insurance companies do, as you know, they routinely deny coverage to sick people who were not covered, and also to sick people who were covered......

.....effectively they kill them.......

......is there a nicer, more diplomatic way to put it ? ...probably ......

......but the effect is the same .....we need to let some sunlight into these nefarious practices for the disinfection to start.......

The fact that we are the fatest nation in the world is NOT a deflection. It is very relevant to our health care reform and what expectations we have of that reform.
......#69 | Posted by eberly

.....it is a point in the debate, but it's another point......

.....let's stop killing Americans first, then we can worry about their weight, unless you want to disqualify fat people from healthcare, and start a whole new catagory of un-insured people......

So do butter and sausage makers, then. Also that argument could easily be extended to Nintendo and big screen TV manufacturers.
.....#73 | Posted by goatman

.....we were talking about people turned down for life saving treatment......

YOU made the stretch from the post where he said, "every piddling item on his domestic agenda" meant the Insurance industry. Nobody else. Right? Skizzy?

#76 | Posted by crispee_oc

.......yes......I made the connection between "domestic agenda" and healthcare.....it is the most important item right now on Obama's domestic agenda....and I still maintain that it is more important to more Americans than what happens overseas.......

Skizzy,
You didn't answer #64. #77 | Posted by crispee_oc

If you really are for real, you would support the ban on all alcohol and tobacco. All foods related to heart disease. How about it?
......#64 | Posted by crispee_oc

.....these points are red-herrings in this particular discussion......

......alcohol and tobacco related social policy are important points, but they are separate points from the ones under discussion........

......people can & do die from many things, but can we excuse the insurance industry for killing off people, just because some people smoke and some drink.??.....

.....we have many social problems, but solving the insurance industry killings is an easy one, you can legislate it away......

......you can't legislate away smoking and drinking....it's been tried.....it takes a complex, multi-layered harm reduction approach, but that is another discussion for another day.....lets be content if we can save the next decades worth of insurance company legalized killings from happening.......

All foods related to heart disease.

....that would be anything worth eating......

What the hell do you think about some ridiculous study saying Insurance Companies kill X amount of people every year? Red Snapper?
.....#82 | Posted by crispee_oc

....insurance industry executives testified in the Senate on C-Span that it was true, they do it all the time.....

.....what do I think of it ?....I want it to stop..

You seem to ignore tobacco and alcohol abuse and the diseases they spurn are more than 30% of costs to Medicare and Medicaid. You still think those are red herrings to HC Reform?
.......#83 | Posted by crispee_oc

......they are red herrings in this discussion....

.....as I said....there is no excuse for killing Americans by denying them treatment......

......and yes......we should work on intelligent social / legal / health legislation for smoking and drinking, and while those are related, we cannot fix them overnight by legislation.......

.....we had prohibition, did not work, we now have a prohibition on marijuana, and it is not working, so we cannot have a kind of simple answer to it in one shot.....we have to engage in harm reduction social policies....they take time......

......saving the insurance company victims can be done immediately through legislation.....the insurance companies are hiding behid the law when they kill people........

......I take it you don't smoke or drink....

#88 | Posted by crispee_oc

.....and since I answered your questions, perhaps you can answer mine......

.....since you do not believe the 45 thousand dead American number from the Harvard study.......

.....how many Americans do you think the insurance industry kills annually ( and remember, the insurance execs said they do it )..well...

....how many ??.......