Bartlett: Fiscal Responsibility Requires Higher Taxes

Tuesday, September 29, 2009

Bruce Bartlett: At some point, taxes have to be back on the table as the price that must be paid for profligate spending. Only then will the American people realize that they can't have their cake and eat it too. Only when the American people go back to believing that spending must be paid for will they stop demanding something for nothing and put the country back on the path to fiscal sanity.

Posted by taxman at 08:32 AM | 67 COMMENTS | permalink | Comment on This Entry

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taxman

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I am one of those "balanced budget" types - I don't know if that means I am a conservative, but I honestly believe that every entitlement program, war, government program, etc. should be paid for before we start cutting taxes. I am all for tax cuts when we aren't running deficits, but until then either cut spending or raise taxes. Neither are popular, but one, or both, will be necessary.

#1 | Posted by taxman at 2009-09-28 10:42 AM | Reply | Flag:

fiscal responsibility requires that one not spend what one does not have. no new taxes - isn't that what his heinous said? STOP THE SPENDING!

#2 | Posted by nanc at 2009-09-28 10:47 AM | Reply | Flag:

Well, the current economic mess we're in proves that you can't run deficits ad infinitum. Congress will either rein in spending, or the markets will do it for them.

#3 | Posted by rightisright at 2009-09-28 10:49 AM | Reply | Flag:

RiR, until they rein in spending they are going to have to generate revenue which probably means higher taxes. We Americans have lived on the "credit card" mentality for too long. I could understand reducing taxes when we were in a surplus - that is the taxpayers "overpayment" and should be refunded - but the minute you start spending more than you are bringing in, you are headed down a destructive path.

#4 | Posted by taxman at 2009-09-28 10:58 AM | Reply | Flag:

Depends on what the deficit spending is for though. If you're borrowing to build highways and dams and airports, it's one thing. If you're borrowing so you can pay Americans to buy cars, it's another.

They should cut spending first, before asking for higher taxes. When Obama or the Dems start looking to do that, let me know. I'd rather leave it in the hands of the debt markets--those lessons will come about much more quickly, and decisively.

#5 | Posted by rightisright at 2009-09-28 11:11 AM | Reply | Flag:

They should cut spending first, before asking for higher taxes.

I completely agree - trim the fat, let's see where we stand, and then determine if a short term tax increase is needed.

#6 | Posted by taxman at 2009-09-28 12:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

I support higher taxes. We need to mimic tax rates of Northern Europe.

#7 | Posted by jackass at 2009-09-28 12:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

Europe has high tax rates due to the high cost of various social programs.

#8 | Posted by taxman at 2009-09-28 12:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

trim the fat

#6 | Posted by taxman at 2009-09-28 12:00 PM

I have not seen either party do this on a significant scale.

#9 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2009-09-28 12:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

"They should cut spending first, before asking for higher taxes."

Thank you President Hoover. Welcome to the RisR Depression! "Keep selling."
I think I'll get my economic advice from someone who has a clue.

#10 | Posted by danni at 2009-09-28 12:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

Read your history. Hoover tried everything, including massive stimulus and deficit spending.

I'm up 34.3% on the year. (Down 6% on the month, however--lost some money on a drug company--ah well) How about you?

My job is to make money irrespective of what markets are doing. If you're a passive investor, you should have been out last September. I don't have that option with my managed accounts.

#11 | Posted by rightisright at 2009-09-28 02:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

Seriously, though. Read up on Herbert Hoover. People who are in the markets every day know that when the music stops, all the governments on earth can't do much. It took World War II to get us out of the last Depression. Hopefully we're not looking for a redux.

#12 | Posted by rightisright at 2009-09-28 02:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

Hopefully we're not looking for a redux.

Posted by rightisright

Obama "All options are on the table" in his machismo puff of his cigaretttti

#13 | Posted by Bani at 2009-09-28 02:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Well, the current economic mess we're in proves that you can't run deficits ad infinitum"

Wow. A 180 degree turn in just one short administration.

#14 | Posted by Danforth at 2009-09-28 02:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

(Down 6% on the month, however--lost some money on a drug company--ah well)

my fault!!!?

The Mask Slips, for Those with Eyes to See: Preparing for the Real Pandemic

www.russellmeansfreedom.com

#15 | Posted by Bani at 2009-09-28 02:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

Wow. A 180 degree turn in just one short administration.

#14 | Posted by Danforth
* * *

Quit being a dick. How many posts do I have to throw up from the last six years that Bush was a disaster on spending?
I blame the Republicans for everything. I wanted balanced budgets, tort reform, shrinking government, collapsing bureaucracies, and a bona-fide declaration of war before we went anywhere. I got none of those things. The fact that it's much worse under Obama is noteworthy, though. So instead of pretending I haven't been saying these things for 11 years now, maybe you should ask yourself why the douche you elected has spent or guaranteed $11 trillion in new federal obligations, and wants to go another $500 billion a year in health care.
After all, just because Bush sucked doesn't give Obama license to.

#16 | Posted by rightisright at 2009-09-28 02:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

After all, just because Bush sucked doesn't give Obama license to.

Posted by rightisright

unless 'they' keep playing this film at the Whitehouse...

www.john-f-kennedy.net

#17 | Posted by Bani at 2009-09-28 03:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Quit being a dick. How many posts do I have to throw up from the last six years that Bush was a disaster on spending? "

Quit pretending you didn't support deficit spending when the President had an (R) after his name. We went around on that topic more than once.

#18 | Posted by Danforth at 2009-09-28 03:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

Europe has high tax rates due to the high cost of various social programs.

#8 | Posted by taxman

I want those same social programs.

#19 | Posted by jackass at 2009-09-28 03:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Europe has high tax rates due to the high cost of various social programs."

Add together your income tax, SS tax, Medicare tax and your health insurance premium and I suspect you will have an effective "tax rate" equal to theirs yet you still won't have as good of health care, retirement, unemployment, etc.

#20 | Posted by danni at 2009-09-28 04:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

but the minute you start spending more than you are bringing in, you are headed down a destructive path. Taxman

You're correct of course in your diagnosis but not (if I understand you) in your solution.

How about cutting spending.. How about getting rid of agencies that do nothing helpful.. like.. hmm.. the department of Education.. since its inception almost every measurable area of education has declined.. EXCEPT SPENDING. Sounds like a stupid idea to collect taxes to keep in running, doesn't it? (and plenty of more to add.. tobacco subsidies.. endowment for the arts, NPR, office of the White House having thousands of employees (what for?.. no one knows)..

I agree with you to this point.. IF the American people want European socialism.. and Obama evidently thinks they do.. then we have to raise taxes..

There are people like me.. that don't want it..

CUT SPENDING..

#21 | Posted by nmg_no at 2009-09-28 04:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

"trim the fat"
#6 | Posted by taxman at 2009-09-28 12:00 PM

"I have not seen either party do this on a significant scale."
#9 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2009-09-28 12:20 PM | Reply

Nor will you ever, not while both parties consider competing with each other more important than cooperating.
The Republicans are all for a strong defense and corporate welfare. The Democrats are all for social programs. And each is more than willing to "trim the fat"; as long as the fat is all in the other side's programs. And the other side is ready to defend to the death their share of the budget.
Until everyone is willing to trim EVERY SINGLE ITEM the government is spending money on, we will never come anywhere near a balanced budget,

#22 | Posted by hawk at 2009-09-28 04:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

There are people like me.. that don't want it.."

But there are more like me who do.

Repeal the Bush and the REagan tax cuts and watch the country return to fiscal soundness and prosperity by motivating investors to invest in real industries here in the United States that emply Americans for decent wages.
Make Capital Gains taxes exactly the same as any other income taxes so that Stock Market bubbles don't suck up investment instead of real investment into actual manufacturing capacity.

#23 | Posted by danni at 2009-09-28 05:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

If you're borrowing to build highways and dams and airports, it's one thing.

#5 | Posted by rightisright

#23 | Posted by danni

We should never have been borrowing to build or support anything. We should be taxing more AND rebuilding infrastructure. This country will not survive at the top of the heap unless it does.

#24 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2009-09-28 05:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

"We should be taxing more AND rebuilding infrastructure."

Greedy little rtard leeches don't want to pay for infrastructure they use.

#25 | Posted by nullifidian at 2009-09-28 05:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

And each is more than willing to "trim the fat"; as long as the fat is all in the other side's programs. And the other side is ready to defend to the death their share of the budget.

Nail meet head.

#26 | Posted by taxman at 2009-09-28 05:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

Greedy little rtard leeches don't want to pay for infrastructure they use.

#25 | Posted by nullifidian

That, and the one's who don't know any better, protesting against their own interests.

#27 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2009-09-28 05:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Greedy little rtard leeches don't want to pay for infrastructure they use."

Perfectly willing to pay for what I use but I doubt that the owners of Walmart are willing to pay for the infrastructure they use.

#28 | Posted by danni at 2009-09-28 09:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

But there are more like me who do. Danni

Did you actually mean to say that you want European style socialism?

#29 | Posted by nmg_no at 2009-09-28 09:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

Fiscal responsibility is don't spend what you don't have or can't pay back.

#30 | Posted by moneywar at 2009-09-29 12:15 AM | Reply | Flag:

Fiscal responsibility is don't spend what you don't have or can't pay back.
#30 | Posted by moneywar

What about the Wimpy rule?
www.weirdspace.dk

#31 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2009-09-29 12:24 AM | Reply | Flag:

Actually fiscal responsibility requires less spending!

#32 | Posted by buzkiller at 2009-09-29 01:39 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Actually fiscal responsibility requires less spending!"

Sure, bridges will rebuild themselves, our military will take second jobs and health care is an unnecessary luxury. Hey, who needs clean water anyway??? Air, you want to be able to breath the air, what are you a Communist????

#33 | Posted by danni at 2009-09-29 08:48 AM | Reply | Flag:

Everyone knows that fiscal responsibility means more spending...Just like a healthy economy means running up the credit card.

#34 | Posted by IraqiBukkake at 2009-09-29 08:50 AM | Reply | Flag:

Don't end the war, just raise taxes.

Don't fund schools, build more prisons.

Don't fund healthcare, bail out the banks.

Fucked up priorities that come when the populace doesn't fight back against the ownership class.

#35 | Posted by Shawn at 2009-09-29 09:01 AM | Reply | Flag:

I doubt that the owners of Walmart are willing to pay for the infrastructure they use.

Why do you think they want a public option?

#36 | Posted by 726 at 2009-09-29 09:05 AM | Reply | Flag:

the higher the taxes the more money they will spend and thus the need to raise taxes higher so as to have more money to spend.

#37 | Posted by semtex111 at 2009-09-29 09:17 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Don't end the war, just raise taxes.

Don't fund schools, build more prisons.

Don't fund healthcare, bail out the banks."

But Shawn, can't you see they are creating industries where none existed?

Well maybe not with the banks.

#38 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2009-09-29 09:17 AM | Reply | Flag:

If the US were a person its credit rating would be sub-500 and it probably wouldn't have any clue what that means.

#39 | Posted by Sully at 2009-09-29 09:26 AM | Reply | Flag:

"the higher the taxes the more money they will spend and thus the need to raise taxes higher so as to have more money to spend."

Funny thing, the Democrats who ordinarily are the party that raises taxes also happen to be the ones who balance the budget while the tax cutting Republicans have historically been the one's who said "deficits don't matter." At least government spending by Democrats brings with it prosperity instead of unnecessary wars.

#40 | Posted by danni at 2009-09-29 09:27 AM | Reply | Flag:

"If the US were a person"

If that were true then no one would loan us money and they still do so our credit rating must be much higher than your estimate.

#41 | Posted by danni at 2009-09-29 09:28 AM | Reply | Flag:

Starting with the upper income tax rates.

Bruce is an honest Conservative, fired from a Conservative think tank for writing "Imposter". This proves that these are not think tanks but partisan propaganda machines, designed to take your money and give it to the undeserving leaches that own Washington.

#42 | Posted by nutcase at 2009-09-29 09:32 AM | Reply | Flag:

"I think I'll get my economic advice from someone who has a clue."
#10 | Posted by danni

Considering the information in your posts and quotes that is not likely to happen.

#43 | Posted by KBM at 2009-09-29 10:06 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Add together your income tax, SS tax, Medicare tax and your health insurance premium and I suspect you will have an effective "tax rate" equal to theirs yet you still won't have as good of health care, retirement, unemployment, etc."
#20 | Posted by danni

Didn't you just post "I think I'll get my economic advice from someone who has a clue."???

#44 | Posted by KBM at 2009-09-29 10:10 AM | Reply | Flag:

"At least government spending by Democrats brings with it prosperity instead of unnecessary wars."
#40 | Posted by danni

Wilson - WWI
Roosevelt - WWII
Truman - North Korea
Kennedy - Bay of Pigs
Kennedy/LBJ - Vietnam War
Clinton - Yugoslavia, Bosnia, Herzegovina

Yes there were some unnecessary wars here.

#45 | Posted by KBM at 2009-09-29 10:20 AM | Reply | Flag:

OK KBM you made your point. I would say though that WWII was a necessary war adn that our involvement in both Korea and Yugoslavia were as part of either UN or Nato operations. Also the Bay of Pigs was actually planned by NIxon during the Eisenhower administration and was supposed to have been launched before they left office. Kennedy never agreed to it so you can't really blame that one on him though I know the rabid Cuban exile community still blames him. So you end up with WWI and Vietnam.

#46 | Posted by danni at 2009-09-29 10:31 AM | Reply | Flag:

no new taxes - isn't that what his heinous said?

#2 | Posted by nanc

No, he did not. We've had this discussion before. He stated that there would be no increase on the Federal income tax. Period.

#47 | Posted by ZOT at 2009-09-29 11:07 AM | Reply | Flag:

So you end up with WWI and Vietnam.

WWII was the only necessary war on that list.

#48 | Posted by jsprague at 2009-09-29 11:16 AM | Reply | Flag:

I support higher taxes. We need to mimic tax rates of Northern Europe.

#7 | Posted by jackass

Do you even know how much that is, what those taxes encompass, and the services that the people get back?

Lemme toss in the two big ROIs:

- Single payer health insurance administered through the state.

- An extensive pubtrans system

Both are heavily subsidized through high tax rates (see also high fuel taxes). Both have co-pays to one extent or another. Both are mostly excellent.

The US has limited forms of both of these, and hideously expensive, and the excellence rating varies.

And as is the US, the Euro countries are going broke, just at a slower rate than the US (which I believe is already broke).

#49 | Posted by ZOT at 2009-09-29 11:20 AM | Reply | Flag:

"WWII was the only necessary war on that list."

Methinks WWI, WWII, Korea and Bosnia were "necessary" wars from our side. There was lots of legit reasons for those four. Vietnam, Iraq, Philippines, Spanish, Granada and Bay of Pigs required big-time imaginations.

#50 | Posted by AILtd at 2009-09-29 11:27 AM | Reply | Flag:

Wilson - WWI
Roosevelt - WWII
Truman - North Korea
Kennedy - Bay of Pigs
Kennedy/LBJ - Vietnam War
Clinton - Yugoslavia, Bosnia, Herzegovina

Yes there were some unnecessary wars here.

#45 | Posted by KBM

The US has not formally declared war, that is, with the Congressional vote, since WWII. All "wars" since have been essentially "police actions" to give them a name. Granted, a soldier killed in a police action isn't any less dead. But the question to ask is what then for what did he/she truly sacrifice his/her life?

This is significant distinction.

#51 | Posted by ZOT at 2009-09-29 11:27 AM | Reply | Flag:

#20 | Posted by danniFlag:Uninformed
Mine are all better. I control my own, and take responsibility for my own. They are way better then any goberment teetie can provide for me. Better than any dependent teetie slurpin lib will get.

#52 | Posted by freechoice at 2009-09-29 02:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

"no new taxes - isn't that what his heinous said?"

His highness George H. W. Bush said that, then raised taxes.

BTW, not bashing him, he did the right thing unlike his idiot son.

#53 | Posted by danni at 2009-09-29 03:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

So telling a lie to get elected then raising taxes anyway is the right thing? You have a messed up sense of right and wrong...

#54 | Posted by freechoice at 2009-09-29 03:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

......the budget was balanced under Clinton, but then Bush gave his "people" a massive tax cut and screwed it up......

#55 | Posted by skizziks at 2009-09-29 04:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

......and now no one has the guts to say "we need to raise taxes until we balance the budget" including the democrats......

#56 | Posted by skizziks at 2009-09-29 04:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

#56 Skizziks> ......and now no one has the guts to say "we need to raise taxes until we balance the budget" including the democrats......

I might have a reason to support it if ANYBODY in D.C. had the guts to make real, substantive cuts in the hugely bloated federal budget. I'm not talking about cuts in growth, or tiny cuts here-and-there either.

And regarding your remarks about Clinton's balanced budget, did that include all the off-budget amounts? And did the house Repubs actually *help* Clinton cut the budget or hinder his efforts?

I will give Clinton credit for much better fiscal responsibility than either G.W. or Obama (the latter is even worse than the former).

#57 | Posted by AKat at 2009-09-29 04:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

I will give Clinton credit for much better fiscal responsibility...

Clinton not only signed the deregulation bill that accelerated the use of derivatives and made credit default swaps a reality, but he also debased the CPI and that added the rose tint to his numbers.

www.shadowstats.com

See the gray and green blocks? If the green block is truly representative then the increase in the CPI by the old standard was actually 77% higher.

This debasement grows over time. No one will rectify it. All historical data is useless as a means of comparison. Just like the unemployment numbers, the government is lying about inflation and the CPI.

In the grocery line I see the Globe is reporting that Bubba has Parkinson's. Not always a trusted source, I'll admit, but the possibility raises the question: So, there is a God?

#58 | Posted by OzarkAggie at 2009-09-29 05:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

We live in a vampire economy.
Every time government increases spending, borrowing and taxes, it takes more blood out of the private economy. There isn't much blood left as our faltering economy is warning us.

#59 | Posted by Ray at 2009-09-29 05:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

Fiscal sanity requires lower spending. Ah. It's too late anyway.

#60 | Posted by Ray at 2009-09-29 07:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

Too true, Ray.

It makes me think of Going Galt or becoming a Ward of the State...all I need is my Cheerios and Cable TV.

#61 | Posted by daprof at 2009-09-29 09:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

X: FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY REQUIRES LOWER SPENDING

#62 | Posted by citizen_x at 2009-09-29 11:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

Fiscal sanity requires lower spending.
.....#60 | Posted by Ray

.....or higher taxes.......

.....when Obama made cuts to the PROPOSED military budget, but still increased it, he was pounded by the Republicans for NOT INCREASING the military budget by big enough numbers......

.....Bush passed a drug bill that DID NOT ALLOW CHEAPER GENERIC & FOREIGN drugs to be used, it was a give away to the drug companies......

.....so while the REPUBS talk the talk, they do not walk the walk.......

#63 | Posted by skizziks at 2009-09-30 08:45 AM | Reply | Flag:

.....the REPUBS ( and Baucus and a number of bought out DEMOCRATS ) also know that a fully funded public healthcare only costs other western countries about two-thirds of what we pay ( and they get BETTER OUTCOMES ).....

.....but these sell-outs prefer that we, the people, go broke so that their millionaire pals can become billionaires rather than do the right thing for the country.......

.....I have maintained for years that the goal of the American Elite (Baucus included) is the MEXICANIZATION of America......

.....they won't be satisfied until they have everything and we have nothing.......

#64 | Posted by skizziks at 2009-09-30 08:48 AM | Reply | Flag:

......well fuck it.......

.....I'm just gonna get on my burro and go home ...

#65 | Posted by skizziks at 2009-09-30 08:49 AM | Reply | Flag:

here we go again-spend and tax to balance the budget. These Washingtonian bureautrocrats just can not comprehend the dire realities they've dumped us in (with help of many voters). Why would anyone even listen to them anymore?

#66 | Posted by Liberty at 2009-09-30 11:17 AM | Reply | Flag:

Why would anyone even listen to them anymore?
.......#66 | Posted by Liberty

....because if we don't make an effort to balance the budget, the value of the dollar will continue to decline......

....so far, it has not crashed, because other countries who hold massive amounts of US dollars, are propping it up so that their own holdings of US dollars do not become worthless.....

.....the movement is on to get rid of US dollars as the world currency, and once countries like Saudi and China have rid themslevses of enough dollars, they may just let it collapse......

......we have a relatively short window of opportunity of less than ten years to get our deficit & debt, under control......if we do not succeed, then the Mexicanization of America will be complete......

#67 | Posted by skizziks at 2009-09-30 11:43 AM | Reply | Flag: