Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs

The actor Kirk Cameron is part of an effort to distribute thousands of copies of Charles Darwin's Origin of the Species, his landmark work explaining evolutionary theory, with a 50-page introduction that tries to link it to everything from Nazi eugenics to the scientist's alleged "disdain for women." Cameron says, "You can see where [Hitler] clearly takes Darwin's ideas to some of their logical conclusions."

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Comparing the theory of evolution is ridiculous, but to bring up a "disdain for women" as a reason to reject something and to embrace the bible of all things. . . . .

"And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire." (Leviticus 21:9)

"When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her." (Deuteronomy 25:11-12)

"Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean." (Leviticus 12:2)

"But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days." (Leviticus 12:5)

"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." (I Corinthians 11:3)

"For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." (I Corinthians 11:8-9)

"Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go." (Judges 19:24-25)

"Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you." (Deuteronomy 22:24)

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything." (Ephesians 5:22-24)

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)

I could do this all damned day.

This has to be my favorite, I'm pretty sure Jebus is saying he's going to kill children if their mother sleeps around.


"Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works." (Revelation 2:22-23)

One of my favorite Bible stories is at the end of Judges. There's an internecine war over a concubine that was raped and killed by the Benjamites. When it was over, all the Benjamite women were dead. The tribes got together and decided to let the Benjamite men steal wives from a neighboring non-Israelite tribe. The details are hilarious.

Nogov

I'm sure you know by now that they are in such strong denial, their minds go blank on this stuff. I wrote a piece for my website on Jepthah's sacrifice of his daughter. I was getting emails complaining he didn't sacrifice her. They have an excuse for everything.

I could do this all damned day.

If you have a good source, I'll post the collection on my website - usbible.com

Never, ever, misunderestimate the insanity of religion.

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)


Damn, that's inconvenient.

Yeah, and the tooth fairy exists too. My dentist told me so.

I could do this all damned day.

#1 | Posted by NoGov4Me at 2009-09-25 06:58 AM | Reply | Flag:

What?

cut-and-paste Scripture out of context?

It's all you do all day

Yeah, cut the bitch's hands off and throw rocks at your daughter's head untill she dies could mean ANYTHING. Really. . . .

Those biblical quotes are part of the quaint history of a more primitive time. They don't apply to the modern Christian.

The one about homos is real, though.

Just listen to your pastor on Sunday to know which ones apply this week.

Maybe those 15th century priests were right, the Bible is too dangerous to be in the hands of the mob.

Jesus was anti-women, why else were all the apostles men.

"cut-and-paste Scripture out of context?"

So, Vernon, in what "context" do those quotes apply?

Those biblical quotes are part of the quaint history of a more primitive time. They don't apply to the modern Christian.

Then God is not infallible. God means whatever a Christian wants it to mean.

Maybe those 15th century priests were right, the Bible is too dangerous to be in the hands of the mob.

Yes, because they might read the disgusting crap that is in it.

Christians have a lunacy of excuses.

Gotta give Vern credit for at least attempting a response, lame as it was.

The rest of the so-called-Christians are cowering under their beds trying to pretend this thread dosn't exist. Either that or on some 'support' blogsite circle jerk trying to find something to repair their 'faith' after reading it. The rest are in the process of getting drunk enough to beat their wives or molest their kids.


I'm not sure why anyone would want to respond to an article about Kirk Cameron in People magazine. roflmao!

But there was one interesting and factual quote....

"This has been refuted many, many times. The anti-evolutionist fearmongers have to link Darwin to every perceived evil from mankind," says Kevin Padian, professor of paleontology and evolutionary biology at the University of California, Berkeley.

"The two kinds people who believe that religion and evolution can not coexist are extreme atheists and extreme religious fundamentalists. Everyone else doesn't really have a problem. [A majority] of Americans believe that a belief in god is compatible with evolution."

Posted by nogov4me

It appears you descended from the apes. Nuff said. Darwinism lives.

#16 | Posted by KBM at

Wow, insulting others, that's very christlike.

The rest of the so-called-Christians are cowering under their beds trying to pretend this thread dosn't exist.

#14 | Posted by axe at 2009-09-25 11:25 AM

LOL, what a retard.

Wow, insulting others, that's very christlike.

#17 | Posted by NoGov4Me at 2009-09-25 12:48 PM

Jesus called the pharisees names, so yes, it is.

It appears you descended from the apes....
#16 | Posted by KBM

It appears you still are one.

"Wow, insulting others, that's very christlike."


Anyone who interprets Revelation like you do cannot be insulted. You insult yourself. And God as well.

Vern has company but they only can insult, not contribute. Bowel Movement and LrD only proove that certain Rtards realy did descend from apes: Shit does fall down in a gravity field when emerges from the ape's anus.

Bowel Movement and LrD only proove that certain Rtards realy did descend from apes: Shit does fall down in a gravity field when emerges from the ape's anus.

#22 | Posted by axe at 2009-09-25 12:52 PM

LOL, I love it.

#21 | Posted by The_Chapel at

Hey, since none of it means what it says would it be alright if I came over and boned your wife while you're at work?

Everyone else doesn't really have a problem. [A majority] of Americans believe that a belief in god is compatible with evolution."

#15 | Posted by Corky

Then that blows creationism out of the water. Where's god when they need him to rewrite the Bible.

There is a Freedom From Religion Foundation, we have Americans United for Separation of Church and State, organized atheists, Ethical Culture and many others. The trouble is that the most likely members of these movements don't join things. I suspect that's because they'd rather gripe. herm

The quote is from Kevin Padian, professor of paleontology and evolutionary biology at the University of California, Berkeley.

Who is, rather obviously and rather easily, more intelligent than you, considering that creation and evolution are not mutually exclusive, as the good Prof notes, and as most people recognize.

Perhaps you should read former leading atheist scientist Andrew Flew on recent findings in astrophysics and chemistry that has led him to change his mind on creation.


btw, has the stock market hit 1400 yet?

Any timetable on that, eh?

#27 | Posted by Corky at 2009-09-25 01:24 PM | Flag: Big Ouch
Nicely done.

Where's god when they need him to rewrite the Bible.

Oh no, no no. They got it right 2000 years ago. They knew so much about the world back then. Just stick your head in the sand and know that 2000 years ago, people knew much more about our world then we do today and accept in blindly.

Then you can call yourself a Christian.

The idea that reinterpreting something invalidates it is laughable at best. Many people view the Bible as a good start in the journey for spiritual knowledge, but acknowledge that it was written in different times, for different people, with a different understanding of the world. Those with an "all or nothing" attitude, like Christian fundies, the Taliban, or NoGov4Me, care more about ego than anything else.

btw, has the stock market hit 1400 yet?
Any timetable on that, eh?
#27 | Posted by Corky


Every time you want to be an asshole, you bring that up. Every time I tell you stocks are in a bear market that will bottom out somewhere around 1400 at best, or a systemic breakdown at worst. It took three years for the 1929 crash to bottom. That's a rough guideline as to timing, but this cannot be timed with confidence. See chart comparing this market with 1929 chart.

dshort.com

#28 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2009-09-25 01:36 PM | Reply | Flag: another Corky

Perhaps you should read former leading atheist scientist Andrew Flew on recent findings in astrophysics and chemistry that has led him to change his mind on creation.

I know all about Antony Flew (not Andrew). He had no findings and I have no idea why he changed his mind. It means nothing.


So, that's still a, "no timetable", eh?

This year? This decade? This century? Next?

If only Jean Dixon could give herself the same kind of latitude.

Many people view the Bible as a good start in the journey for spiritual knowledge, but acknowledge that it was written in different times, for different people, with a different understanding of the world.

Right.

It's called the King James' bible for a reason. It's his, not mine.

-It means nothing.


Of course it doesn't, Ray, He's just another well-known scientist and evolutionist, not unlike Prof Padian, who also just can't hold a candle to your amazing intellect.

ha. hahaha. hahahhahahhaha!!


My guess is most of the people criticizing chritianity also believe Clinton when he said he did not have sexual relations with Monica, or that change was coming to the White House- just a guess.

Yep, asking how "she shall be burnt with fire" doesn't actually mean "she shall be burnt with fire" is pretty god damned intolerant. It's on the level with sawing off heads, buttfucking prepubes, and doing meth with male whores on the company dime, for the lawd!

#37 | Posted by NoGov4Me at 2009-09-25 02:08 PM

Who said anything about intolerance? Or are you just having a conversation with yourself?

Corky can be an ass sometimes.

In fact, everytime I see someone try to invalidate a post or poster using some other past thread comment or mistake tells me the prime isn't in the intellectual world.

Moronic.


Ray, one thing I do give you credit, seldom do you ever resort to such childish things. Corky and many people here seem to practice it alot.

Ray, one thing I do give you credit, seldom do you ever resort to such childish things. Corky and many people here seem to practice it alot.

Posted by moneywar

bl2 top of the list at the moment

#38 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at

Oh that's right, you live in that one place on the planet where christian fundies and the taliban sent out to all of their members are open minded folks who accept EVERYONE regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation, etc and where news from the outside world is strictly forbidden.

Bani?

b12....huh?

#38 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at

I mean I get it, I really do. It's just like when thew bible tells you that it's perfectly fine to sell your daughter into slavery. That's not what it really means, and you didn't actually mean that I'm anything like the Taliban, in both cases it just seemed that way.

OSo, that's still a, "no timetable", eh?
This year? This decade? This century? Next?
If only Jean Dixon could give herself the same kind of latitude.
#33 | Posted by Corky

Stocks are currently in a bear market; they are not signaling a recovery.
Bernanke is a wrong. Geithner is wrong. Obama is wrong. How much latitude are you giving them?

Of course it doesn't, Ray, He's just another well-known scientist and evolutionist, not unlike Prof Padian, who also just can't hold a candle to your amazing intellect.

If you insist on that route, they are in a small minority among their peers. Talk to me if you ever get Richard Dawkins to change his mind.

From what I can tell Richard Dawkins, on religion, is an asshole. But I hear he's a great scientist and writer.

Kirk Cameron? Kirk Cameron?! Start of the Left Behind movies. Why is anyone surprised at this?

But I gotta say, I laughed out loud when I read the headline. Darwin inspired Hitler. Awesome.

Oh that's right, you live in that one place on the planet where christian fundies and the taliban sent out to all of their members are open minded folks who accept EVERYONE regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation, etc and where news from the outside world is strictly forbidden.

#41 | Posted by NoGov4Me at 2009-09-25 02:39 PM | Reply | Flag: wtf

LOL! I guess you suck at reading comprehension. I never claimed you were intolerant, and made no mention of tolerance or intolerance in general. All in your head (not much else there).

Let's try again. You seemed to be complaining about Christians reinterpreting the bible to fit modern day social norms, and seemed to be suggesting that because the book contains things we would never accept today, things that were written for a primitive, ancient people, that it should be thrown out all together. And I said your motive was ego, the same motive for religious fundies to reject any critique of their religious texts. IE. "All or nothing." Nothing in any of that about tolerance or intolerance.

Kirk Cameron is a Superb Actor and a Leading Force in the American Taliban Movement!
Me and my Wal-Mart Study Group Just Love him!


Sincerely

nanc

I mean I get it, I really do. It's just like when thew bible tells you that it's perfectly fine to sell your daughter into slavery. That's not what it really means, and you didn't actually mean that I'm anything like the Taliban, in both cases it just seemed that way.

#43 | Posted by NoGov4Me at 2009-09-25 02:45 PM

A couple of strawmen here.

I never said that the old testament texts didn't mean what they say, just that they were written for a very different culture, a primitive, more brutal culture. IE. not relevant to our own.

Secondly, I DID actually mean that you were somewhat like the Taliban; in the same way they require their text to be taken at face value, not reinterpretted to fit social norms, and accepted, so do you, re. the Christian bible, only to be rejected.

From what I can tell Richard Dawkins, on religion, is an asshole. But I hear he's a great scientist and writer.
#45 | Posted by pragmatist

Translation: he's too good at debunking religion.

#48 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2009-09-25 02:55 PM | Reply | Flag

Basically you are saying the bible can be interpreted any way you like. That means the bible is Bullshit. Either the words mean what they say, or they don't.

Much like the 911 Commission report has been shown to be a lie, and rejected---by the 911 Commission itself. However, I'm sure you are more interested in something shiny.

www.salem-news.com

Great article you posted Corky.

One reason that I am passionate about exposing the new atheism as a stealth religion is because it distracts attention from something far more important and interesting--the proper study of religion and all forms of human mentality from an evolutionary perspective.

Read more at: www.huffingtonpost.com

Kirk Cameron? The American Taliban?

Basically you are saying the bible can be interpreted any way you like. That means the bible is Bullshit. Either the words mean what they say, or they don't.

#50 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2009-09-25 03:01 PM

Or you can believe they got some parts right and others wrong. Binary-bOoB strikes again.

Huh? No, I meant he's an asshole, if what I read the other day was really his words. Remember the "religion is child abuse" argument the other day? That was apparently inspired by Dawkins. And that is an asshole assertion to make. But it was probably overblown and he didn't mean that.

I'm an atheist (or something like), in case you didn't notice. I just don't insult others based on their religious beliefs. Faith sincerely held can be a beautiful thing. But you know, for all the "I'm right and you're wrong" people, it's hard to see that others' values and beliefs might serve the world, too.

"Jesus was anti-women, why else were all the apostles men."

all gay!

Hitler get more press ~ Stalin who killed more doesn't!

Well, a new Trotsky book ~ Lenin No. 2 man ~ is out to help change some of the myths...

Trotsky
Downfall of a Revolutionary
By Bertrand M. Patenaude


Few political figures of the twentieth century have aroused as much passion, controversy, and curiosity as Leon Trotsky. Trotsky was that rare combination of the man of ideas and the man of action. His role in historyhis epic rise and fall, his fiery persona, his violent end in Mexico in August 1940holds a fascination that transcends the history of the Russian Revolution. Based on extensive firsthand research, this groundbreaking biography examines Trotsky's remarkable life from the perspective of his last exile in Mexico.

Bertrand M. Patenaude masterfully interweaves the story of Trotsky's final years in Mexico with flashbacks to pivotal episodes in his career as a young Marxist, revolutionary hero, Red Army chief, Bolshevik leader, outcast from Stalin's USSR, and ultimately heretic of the Kremlin, targeted for assassination by its secret police. He vividly recounts the contentious Dewey Commission hearings and the passionate debates among liberals and Communists in the United States and Europe over the Moscow Trials and the charges made against Trotsky.

Drawing on Trotsky's private correspondence and diaries, as well as the testimonies of his American bodyguards and secretaries, Patenaude sheds new light on Trotsky's tumultuous friendship with painter Diego Rivera; his affair with Rivera's wife, Frida Kahlo; and his torment as his family and comrades became victims of the Great Terror. Patenaude also turns to KGB files to document Stalin's efforts to eliminate the man he considered his nemesisincluding a failed commando raid on Trotsky's home three months before his death.

Gripping and tragic, Trotsky brilliantly illuminates the fateful and dramatic life of one of history's most captivating and important figures.

www.harpercollins.com


Hitler get more press ~ Stalin who killed more doesn't!

Once you hit a million... does it even matter anymore?

The only thing limiting the number of people killed by a genocidal maniac is the availability of people to kill. None of them stop killing because they're tired of killing people. They run out of people to kill or they lose power.

Huh? No, I meant he's an asshole, if what I read the other day was really his words. Remember the "religion is child abuse" argument the other day? That was apparently inspired by Dawkins. And that is an asshole assertion to make. But it was probably overblown and he didn't mean that.
#54 | Posted by pragmatist

I'm not familiar with it and don't know in what context he said that. Could he have been referring to the strict Puritan type? Is there a link?

richarddawkins.net

Or you can believe they got some parts right and others wrong. Binary-bOoB strikes again.

#53 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2009-09-25 03:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

Or you can believe is it all right. Or you can believe it is all wrong. Or you can make up anything you like. Gullible Live or Die strikes again.

How about that 911 Commission saying they were lied to and the Report was a lie? I guess you can make up what you want to believe about anything can't you---the bible--Bush---911. Facts mean nothing when you can imagine your own reality. What color is the sky in your world?

www.salem-news.com

Or you can believe is it all right. Or you can believe it is all wrong. Or you can make up anything you like. Gullible Live or Die strikes again.

How about that 911 Commission saying they were lied to and the Report was a lie? I guess you can make up what you want to believe about anything can't you---the bible--Bush---911. Facts mean nothing when you can imagine your own reality. What color is the sky in your world?

www.salem-news.com

#59 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2009-09-25 03:28 PM | Flag: LOL!

Yes, bOoB. Now run along.

Darwin inspired Hitler
Hitler and Darwin inspired atheistic libs
Therefore libs and atheists are evil and must be stopped at all costs

Logical Thom


Darwin inspired Hitler
God inspired Hitler...and countless other mass-murderers

Hitler and Darwin inspired atheistic libs
Hitler has never inspired an atheist; just religious Neo-Nazis

Therefore libs and atheists are evil and must be stopped at all costs
Non Sequitir

Logical Thom
Illogical Thom

"Anyone who interprets Revelation like you do cannot be insulted. You insult yourself. And God as well."

There is only one revelation, and that is when a man or woman finds out what their "special purpose" is for!!

LM

btw, has the stock market hit 1400 yet?

Any timetable on that, eh?

Twenty three minutes after oil hits $30 a barrel, according Vern's calculator. So like any minute now....

The "body count" of atheist regimes is higher than the "body count" of religious ones...

Not a justification, just an historical fact.

Yes, bOoB. Now run along.

#60 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2009-09-25 03:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sorry--you can support an attack on the United States--not me. You need your own country. This country is for Americans who care about who attacked us on 911. The 911 Commission says it was lied to. How about you go back to thumping your bible and leave America to Americans.

The 9/11 Commission now tells us that the official version of 9/11 was based on false testimony and documents and is almost entirely untrue.

www.salem-news.com

Sure. And Smith and Wesson inspired Lee Harvey Oswald too.

Translation: he's too good at debunking religion.

I started reading the God Delusion and made it only about 1/3 the way through. He didn't make any particularly original or new arguments and most of them were sort of shallow.

So no, he's not very good at debunking religion.

The "body count" of atheist regimes is higher than the "body count" of religious ones...

Religious genocide occurs because idiots feel the need to kill other people in the name of god. There is no> parallel in countries with no official state religion.

So no, he's not very good at debunking religion.

Most days, religion can be left alone to debunk itself.

Actually, it was Christianity that inspired Hitler-the Christians were purifying the race long before darwin was born. Just ask the arabs and jews...

When is Kirk going to come out of the closet? I heard he has a regular "web-cam" session with Teddy Bear Haggard!!

LM

There is no> parallel in countries with no official state religion.

#69 | Posted by ZombieHunter at 2009-09-25 03:55 PM

The question was with atheist countries, not countries without an official state religion.

The "body count" of atheist regimes is higher than the "body count" of religious ones...

World War II casualty statistics vary greatly. Estimates of total dead range from 50 million to over 70 million.[36] The sources cited on this page document an estimated death toll in World War II of 62 to 78 million, making it the deadliest war ever. A war started by the Protestant Nazis, the ones with "God with us" on their ammo belts. The Pope's buddies at the time. And, of course, by the shinto japanese.

Ummm . . . the Nazis themselves said that eugenics was inspired by Darwinian evolution.

What the Nazis had wrong was that purer the race, the stronger it must be. In fact, the opposite is true. Your progeny is stronger--and better looking, by the way--if you have children with people of other races. Provided, of course, said people aren't liberals.

Ummm . . . the Nazis themselves said that eugenics was inspired by Darwinian evolution.

Which is in no way an indictment of evolution.

Just because some crazy fuck distorted it to support their ideals doesn't mean the distorted idea is wrong.

What I find particularly hilarious is that this sort of shit is fundies' best attempt at assailing evolution. They have NO scientific evidence to the contrary and therefore have no horse in the race.

Just because some crazy fuck distorted it to support their ideals doesn't mean the distorted idea is wrong.

#77 | Posted by jpw at 2009-09-25 04:08 PM

Now that's quite a concept. Where have I heard that before?

Smith and Wesson inspired Lee Harvey Oswald

That's why he bought an Italian Carcano.

the Christians were purifying the race

Like the Romans "purified" Palestine of the Jews in the first century (AD) after the Essene revolt.

Hitler was into all sorts of mysticism, like astrology and numerology and other occult "sciences" that were popular at the time, and picked up the myth of the Aryan Race from the Brits. Originally it had to do with common elements of languages.

Ummm . . . the Nazis themselves said that eugenics was inspired by Darwinian evolution.

You are a liar!
From About.com.....

"dolf Hitler regularly proclaimed his faith in God, Nazi ideology was committed to supporting Christianity (on its terms, of course), and Nazi anti-Semitism was firmly grounded in Christian anti-Semitism. Hitler's theism, religiosity, and Christianity "

nobeliefs.com

nobeliefs.com

and then there is this beauty from Hitler himself....

"As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice"
Adolf Hitler quotes (German Chancellor, leader of the Nazi party, 1889-1945)"

or maybe...

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: - by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord"
Adolf Hitler quotes (German Chancellor, leader of the Nazi party, 1889-1945)

got anymore lies RisR?

LM

Interesting quotes mongrel. None of them had to do with eugenics or evolution though.

But thanks for the history lesson anyway. Hope you didn't spend a lot of time on it.

If you want to blame eugenics on Darwin why not go all the way back to the true father of it Gregor Mendel???

#80 | Posted by Liberal_Mongrel at 2009-09-25 04:16 PM
None of what you posted dispels the notion that Nazi eugenics was inspired by Darwinian evolution.* All it does is show that Hitler adhered to some form of Christianity. Please try again.
* I am not arguing that it is an indictment of evolution.

Kirk Cameron and evangelist Ray Comfort explain why bananas prove God's existence:

www.youtube.com

The idea that the shape and size of the banana were determined by human cultivation never crosses their mind.

Sure. And Smith and Wesson inspired Lee Harvey Oswald too.

#67 | Posted by tiger150

Misinformed again? At least Darwin did some research ~ have u ever?

www.john-f-kennedy.net

#84 | Posted by rcade at 2009-09-25 04:23 PM
I got a chuckle when he explained the shame of the tip, perfect for entry into the human mouth, and then made a little gesture demonstrating it.

*shame = shape

Or does it?

Always a Problem in any Hitler discussion...


WAS HITLER A ROTHSCHILD?


www.theforbiddenknowledge.com

nobody collected on the bet therein disproving the probable association yet either, but what else is new?

I don't know much about Kirk Cameron, or why the idea of distributing 50,000 copies of "Species" would somehow discredit Darwin. But the fact is that eugenics is one of the logical conclusions of Darwinian Evolution. In fact, Eugenicists called themselves "Applied Darwinists" in the first half of the 20th century. It was all the rage in the scientific community, even here in the States.

"The "body count" of atheist regimes is higher than the "body count" of religious ones..."

Even if that were true it's only because religious ones didn't have machine guns, poison gas, etc., throughout most of history.

None of what you posted dispels the notion that Nazi eugenics was inspired by Darwinian evolution.*.....


It was said that Nazi's explicity said eugenics was inpired by Darwin and not one single shred of eveidence was put forth to substantiate that claim. I posted many facts that show that x-trianity and not evolution was Hitlers guiding light. Somehow that doesn't equate to be on topic of evolution to some simple mided folk!

All teh righties claim hitler to be an atheist and evolution follower, yet there are no quotes from Hitler about evolution or atheism....only quotes supporting x-trianity and his god....

LM

I stand corrected....


"We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.

- Adolf Hitler, Speech in Berlin, October 24, 1933 "

Sorry righties, no more including Hitler in your atheist rants, that is if you can read more than one book!!!

LM

Sorry righties, no more including Hitler in your atheist rants, that is if you can read more than one book!!!

LM

#92 | Posted by Liberal_Mongrel at 2009-09-25 04:35 PM

The rant was on evolution, not atheism. Can't you keep anything straight?

The rant was on evolution, not atheism. Can't you keep anything straight?

#93 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

Yes, bOoB. Now run along.

#60 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

how's the banana going down today?

Of course, I could point out state sponsored atheism and the communist dictators that promoted it, and (sometimes brutally) enforced it, but it gets no one anywhere. It doesn't invalidate atheism anymore than pointing out Hitler's claim to religion invalidates Christianity, or pointing out that eugenics was conceived from evolutionary concepts invalidates evolution.

#94 | Posted by Bani at 2009-09-25 04:40 PM | Reply | Flag: Huh?

I said that the Nazis believed that eugenics was advancing Darwinian evolution. Then you go and post a few quotes from Hitler and whatever his faith was. It was as if I said that the Republican Party believes that Obamacare is a bad idea, and you pull up some quotes from Reagan about Hollywood in the era of the silent film. It's stupid.

Why not read the words of the eugenicists themselves? Eugenics was widely practiced in the early 20th century; the Nazis were concerned that America was way ahead of them, in fact.

A third of my family is Jewish, and I grew up with books being placed in my hand about the evils of Nazism. The fact that they did, in their admission, attempt to take Darwinian evolution and put it on warp speed with 20th century science might be inconvenient to you as a Darwinist, or not. I dunno. But it doesn't make it less true.

"Thus the weak members of civilized societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly any one is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.

The aid which we feel impelled to give to the helpless is mainly an incidental result of the instinct of sympathy, which was originally acquired as part of the social instincts, but subsequently rendered, in the manner previously indicated, more tender and more widely diffused. Nor could we check our sympathy, even at the urging of hard reason, without deterioration in the noblest part of our nature."

Who said that? Darwin? Or Goebbels?

Prescott Bush into Eugenics, too, of course, before GW's father discovered being anti-choice to be the Reagon pre-requisite to becoming his vp

Now that's quite a concept. Where have I heard that before?

You'd think it'd be obvious enough to prevent people like Kirk here from attempting to use it as a means of smearing evolution.

But Bush Sr. tried to get even on March 30th, 1981 & Nancy, I understand, never had much time for him ever after...for some arcane reason

www.nathanielblumberg.com

Oh look. Here's a quote from ol' Adolf, critical of Christianity, for refusing to embrace Darwinism:

"Its teaching was a rebellion against the natural law of selection by struggle and the survival of the fittest."

Darwin again, in "The Descent of Man":

"At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilized races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace throughout the world the savage races."

From a 1937 Nazi propaganda film, Victims of the Past, a retarded person is shown with the voiceover,
"In the last few decades, mankind has sinned terribly against the law of natural selection. We haven't just maintained life unworthy of life, we have even allowed it to multiply."

Hitler and Stalin had mustaches too. Stalin even had people killed for saying bad things about his.

Where is your condemnation? Where is your outrage?

Mike Seaver needs a spanking.

That the Nazis invoked Darwin in many propaganda vehicles cannot be disputed. I've seen some of the films. The point of them were:

1) Men are just animals.

2) The best animals vanquish the weaker ones as part of the natural order.

3) Given #1 and #2, war is good.

"Hitler adhered to some form of Christianity..."

No.

Using this MORON thesis the founding Fathers had a great disdain for Women an Blacks...The ignorance of the Religious Right is really SCARY!!!!! What the FUCK!!!

"Of course, I could point out state sponsored atheism and the communist dictators that promoted it, and (sometimes brutally) enforced it, but it gets no one anywhere. It doesn't invalidate atheism anymore than pointing out Hitler's claim to religion invalidates Christianity, or pointing out that eugenics was conceived from evolutionary concepts invalidates evolution."

Please do, I want to see how bad you fuck this one up. Let's see how many communist religious regimes you attribute to atheism!!


My hitler claim refute the religious claims that he was atheist and trying to put his attrocities onto an atheist nation. Much in the way Stalin(x-trian) is falsely accused of being atheist and Mao as well(closer to imperialism). So once we get the big three out of the way thatwill leave you with pol pot! One cazy ass muther fucka but was educated a buddhist/roman catholic and most would claim he was a relgious individual.

LM

Show me one case where a leader who said this is an atheist nation and we declare war on believers! This has happened the other way around!!

LM

Ummm . . . the Nazis themselves said that eugenics was inspired by Darwinian evolution.


And the nutbags that shot the abortion docs said they were inspired by the Bible. What's your point?

"A third of my family is Jewish, and I grew up with books being placed in my hand about the evils of Nazism. The fact that they did, in their admission, attempt to take Darwinian evolution and put it on warp speed with 20th century science might be inconvenient to you as a Darwinist, or not. I dunno. But it doesn't make it less true."

So show me where the nazi's made this claim. You have made it multiple times....I google but don't get any Nzi lines that read as you say. In reality, it's you that made the leap that nazis who practiced eugenics were in fact atheist and practicing something Darwin "told" them to practice! Your back track dance doesn't work.

LM

"Oh look. Here's a quote from ol' Adolf, critical of Christianity, for refusing to embrace Darwinism:


"Its teaching was a rebellion against the natural law of selection by struggle and the survival of the fittest."

Where did you find that, can you provide the link? I cut and pasted it, to in fact see if there was any mention of evolution/darwinism or in what context, or who said it, when, where and the funny thing is I got no return from my search. I thought that was odd, so I added hitler plus the quote you attribute to him and still nothing!! I am calling this a made up lie by you, ma are you pathetic!!

LM

"That the Nazis invoked Darwin in many propaganda vehicles cannot be disputed. I've seen some of the films. The point of them were:


The films and literature I have seen have zero mention of it. If it was so readily acceptd and abundant material, one would think they could find it easily, unless of course it's bullshit!!

LM

Hitler and his Nazis brain-trust had their own racial fantasies that had nothing to do with the Bible, and very little to do with the Origin of Species. Nazi propaganda imagined a master nordic warrior race, the Aryans, who were the progenitors of Germans, and the conquerors of India. According to this nonsense the Aryans were descended from the Atlantians. How they got from a land mass sinking in the Atlantic to their new homeland in the Caucasus was a problem for Nazis theorists.

The notion of the Aryans coming out of Africa after earlier descending from apes would have been as disturbing to Hitler and his followers as it is to many fundamental Christians--not that I would want to draw any parallels, only to suggest that Cameron ought not to be so foolish as to draw one with Darwin.

"Hitler and his Nazis brain-trust had their own racial fantasies that had nothing to do with the Bible, and very little to do with the Origin of Species"

Please post some examples of this origin of species associations?

I can post countless examples where they claim biblical right, or divinity or that their actions be mandated/supported/will of god! NO one has posted anything that supports any association of Darwin/evolution. You even have RisR creating shit out of thin air, what a loser. Come on hitler's ghost writer, where did you get that quote from??

LM

#84 | POSTED BY RCADE AT 2009-09-25 04:23 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

Haha! It would be funnier if it wasn't so disappointing.

#84 | POSTED BY RCADE AT 2009-09-25 04:23 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

Kirk's buddy may also be opening the banana the 'wrong' way. See the link:
lifehacker.com

#119 | POSTED BY JONO AT 2009-09-25 07:17 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

Surely God would have instructed Kirk in the more efficient method of opening a banana before telling him to make his stupid video...

I am calling this a made up lie by you, ma are you pathetic!!

LM

#114 | Posted by Liberal_Mongrel
* * * *

How about we go off-site, and wager $1,000?

Put your money where your mouth is.

BTW--aren't you the same dumbass who couldn't use google two weeks ago?

Kirk is correct. Read up on it.

#123 | POSTED BY THE_CHAPEL AT 2009-09-25 07:24 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

OH__MY__GOODNESS. Thank you, The_Chapel! After I read your comment, I went to Kirk's website and now I'm a believer too!

So show me where the nazi's made this claim. You have made it multiple times....I google but don't get any Nzi lines that read as you say. In reality, it's you that made the leap that nazis who practiced eugenics were in fact atheist and practicing something Darwin "told" them to practice! Your back track dance doesn't work.

LM

#113 | Posted by Liberal_Mongrel
* * *

Have you been drinking? I never said that the Nazis were atheist, and I never said it was something Darwin told them to practice, considering Darwin predated them by a few decades. You're stupid.

Darwin made many comments in his writings that were used as the basis of the eugenicists movement. If you deny that, you're just being deliberately ignorant. What's more, he advocated civilized nations euthanizing the uncivilized.

BTW--do you even know how Google works? Godalmighty.

Big fucking deal.

Anyone can take a scientific truth and twist it to their own nefarious gain.

That does not negate a scientific truth.

Kirk Cameron should stick with schmaltzy TV shows. Did you ever see his horrid performance in the schlock "Left Behind"? I liked the concept of those books and enjoyed reading the first one. But his performance in the movie was first rate crap.

After I read your comment, I went to Kirk's website and now I'm a believer too!

Everything makes so much more sense with your head up your ass!

I Believe.... oh nevermind... head popped out.

Nice sweater, Cunt......err... I mean kirk.

Were you trying to tell Kirk "nice cunt"?

Did you ever see his horrid performance in the schlock "Left Behind"?


Sounds like gay porn.

Go figure.

#126 | Posted by boojiboy at 2009-09-25 07:33 PM

#128 | POSTED BY ZOMBIEHUNTER AT 2009-09-25 07:37 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

Well, what are you waiting for, Zombie!? Go back to Kirk's website so your head can ram itself back into your rectum! The air is so fine!


Were you trying to tell Kirk "nice cunt"?

#130 | Posted by ZombieHunter at 2009-09-25 07:39 PM


No.

I believe I said "Nice sweater, cunt".

Go back to Kirk's website so your head can ram itself back into your rectum!

Ah, yes, things are so much clearer to me again... all I need to do is pres F5 when I feel myself slipping out.

From the article;

"......scientist's alleged "disdain for women."


Riiiiight.......Because we all know that religion has never shown any disdain toward women.

If it was such readily abundant and accepted material (Nazi propaganda films), one would expect to find it readily...."

I don't know why you'd expect that at all. The subject is bit arcane. Having said that, I've seen one such film on the History Channel, in broad daylight.

The Nazis were industrial strength materialists. That they literally harnassed industry to flat materialism in search of advantage was their innovation.

Having said THAT, the leadership elite could be very supersitious, It's the nature of their supersititions that emphasizes how much they HATED Christianity.

The Bible inspired the Crusades, do we therefore ban the Bible because some morons took the wrong lessons from it?


Oh look. Here's a quote from ol' Adolf, critical of Christianity, for refusing to embrace Darwinism:


"Its teaching was a rebellion against the natural law of selection by struggle and the survival of the fittest."

Yes, this is a lie that you are twisting. These are not his words, do you want the real quote that Bormann wrote down or are you going to continue to post a lie?


LM

P.S. That was an easy out on your $1,000 challenge since I know after Ipost the real quote I will never seea penny, whether we do this online or off!

LM

The films and literature I have seen have zero mention of it. If it was so readily acceptd and abundant material, one would think they could find it easily, unless of course it's bullshit!!

Take a visit to the Holocaust museum in DC. They show such films. Also, it wasn't just films. The same messages were given to elementary school children. E.G., there is a copy of a textbook with a caricature of a Jew as a mushroom on the cover full of anti-Jewish propoganda. It's shocking.

You'll never be the same after a visit to that museum, especially if you dare to look down into the little 'wells' throughout with the really gruesome film footage -- live people in vacuum chambers and ovens and being subjected to the worst kind of 'medical' experiments imaginable.

Hitler not only "Inspired & Encouraged" Israel and the Bush/Obama Regime,he in fact is their "Glorious Patron Saint"!!!

Oh no, no no. They got it right 2000 years ago. They knew so much about the world back then. Just stick your head in the sand and know that 2000 years ago, people knew much more about our world then we do today and accept in blindly.

Then you can call yourself a Christian.

#29 | Posted by Manypaths at 2009-09-25 01:45 PM | Reply |

What do you call someone who worships cows while they freely walk among the starving?

Answer: ManyPaths and his ancestors(aka god damned fools)

A war started by the Protestant Nazis, the ones with "God with us" on their ammo belts. The Pope's buddies at the time.
#74 | Posted by northguy3 at 2009-09-25 04:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

Northguy proves not only that he is a god damned, hate filled fool, but an ignorant one as well.

Why are you such a God damned fool NorthGuy?

The Bible inspired the Crusades, do we therefore ban the Bible because some morons took the wrong lessons from it?

#137 | Posted by kanrei at 2009-09-25 07:53 PM | Reply

Hey injun, what were the Crusades?

"So it's not opportune to hurl ourselves now into a struggle with the Churches. The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death."

Adolf Hitler, 14 October 1941.

Nature...puts living creatures on this globe and watches the free play of forces. She then confers the master's right on her favorite child, the strongest in courage and industry...The stronger must dominate and not blend with the weaker, thus sacrificing his own greatness. Only the born weakling can view this as cruel.

[Mein Kampf, pp 134-5, 285, 289]

The aid which we feel impelled to give to the helpless is mainly an incidental result of the instinct of sympathy, which was originally acquired as part of the social instincts, but subsequently rendered, in the manner previously indicated, more tender and more widely diffused. Nor could we check our sympathy, even at the urging of hard reason, without deterioration in the noblest part of our nature.

Charles Darwin

When National Socialism has ruled long enough, it will no longer be possible to conceive of a form of life different from ours. In the long run, National Socialism and religion will no longer be able to exist together. No, it does not mean a war. The ideal solution would be to leave the religions to devour themselves, without persecutions. But in that case we must not replace the Church with something equivalentThe heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity. [Hitler's Table Talk, p. 6-7]

Hitler usually concluded this historical speculation by remarking "You see, it's been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn't we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?

From "Inside the Third Reich"

"Oh look. Here's a quote from ol' Adolf, critical of Christianity, for refusing to embrace Darwinism:

"Its teaching was a rebellion against the natural law of selection by struggle and the survival of the fittest."
Yes, this is a lie that you are twisting. These are not his words, do you want the real quote that Bormann wrote down or are you going to continue to post a lie?
LM"

I see you danced away from your created bullshit line, posted more silliness. Come on and confess, you embellished a quote, added to it,then threw in that it was in reference to Darwinism. You are pathetic, a little right wing lying fool!
Here is the real quote so people can see it had no mention of darwinism or evolution, it did't even mention natural selection.


"Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p. 43)"

Go ahead an keep the $1,000, proving you a lying revisionst is priceless!!


Then there is this one that burns x-trians sooooo much.....

"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so"

[Adolph Hitler, to Gen. Gerhard Engel, 1941]


LM

Take a visit to the Holocaust museum in DC. They show such films. Also, it wasn't just films. The same messages were given to elementary school children. E.G., there is a copy of a textbook with a caricature of a Jew as a mushroom on the cover full of anti-Jewish propoganda. It's shocking.

What message are you referring to? That Hitler was carrying out gods work, yes, I agree. That he was acting as part of a darwinian plot, I have never seen such and doubt it's in a book to children or movies at the museum.

LM

LM:

"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so"


[Adolph Hitler, to Gen. Gerhard Engel, 1941]"

I kinda giggle at people who believe Hitler is a murderer, an evil man, but don't think he's not capable of lying.

People claim they are Christians but their actions show they are not.




"LM:
"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so"
[Adolph Hitler, to Gen. Gerhard Engel, 1941]"
I kinda giggle at people who believe Hitler is a murderer, an evil man, but don't think he's not capable of lying.
People claim they are Christians but their actions show they are not"

I agee, especially actions like these.....

If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)


Why is god a murdering, liar?

Off to the gym.....should be amusing when I return!!

LM

LM:

Also in the OT, Noah was instructed to build an Ark, because God found few righteous and wiped out all but those who were in the Ark.

In the OT which is the time period where Jesus was concealed, people lived under the law. Most people at that time, were not following that law.

I used this simple analogy when talking to a friend of mine the other day...

When working, we have a boss who is in charge of overviewing our job performance. Certain times during the year, we are given job performance evaluations. Those evaluations are used to determine our strengths and where we may need improvement and also to see if we even are found to be good employees to continue working there.

If we live up to the expectations that our employer set down for us, we are rewarded with raises and promotions.

If we do not live up to those expectations, we are disciplined by different sorts of methods and if failing to a large degree, we get fired.

Do you not believe your boss has the right to hand out punishment as he sees fit according to the rules that were set forth by the employer?

God is our "boss". And our judgement day is going to be our final job evaluation.

Back in the OT, God disciplined those who were failing with different methods of punishment and yes, death was one of them.

However, if you believe that the OT is truth, using it as an example that God is "bad" because he disciplined even to the point of striking them dead, then you also must believe in the NT, that God is "good" because He loved us so much that He sent Jesus to atone for our sins. We are no longer held under the law of the OT.

Also, many people quote Scripture to argue a negative point, but fail to read the verses before and after the one they use which most times, sheds the accurate light as to the meaning of the Scripture they quote. Please keep that in mind when quoting Scripture.






LM is a strange person.

Just another troll that doesn't need feeding, I guess. Redneckville, Jackass, and Liberal Mongrel. What dumbasses.

Well, I'd rather take the time to speak to him RIR, and explain rather than ignore.

I wouldn't put LM in the same catagory as the other two, though.

Also, many people quote Scripture to argue a negative point, but fail to read the verses before and after the one they use which most times, sheds the accurate light as to the meaning of the Scripture they quote. Please keep that in mind when quoting Scripture.

Lisa, I'm going to tell you as a matter of truth, Christians apologists do that to an extreme. I went through the majority of prophecies that were said to forecast the coming of Jesus. Not one had anything to do with Jesus. What apologists did, was strip the words of their original context and apply them to Jesus. There is a good case to be made that the gospels were constructed around those prophecies.

As an example, one popular prophecy is Isaiah's Suffering Servant. Isaiah was making an analogy between the suffering of leper king, Uzziah, and the restoration of Israel. Another giveaway to the falsity of prophecies is that they are written in past tense. I wouldn't argue that they were lying. It was a manner of interpretation called Midrash.

"Do you not believe your boss has the right to hand out punishment as he sees fit according to the rules that were set forth by the employer?


God is our "boss". And our judgement day is going to be our final job evaluation. "


Not when that boss is breaking his same rules, see how easy that was?

No way does murdering another because he doesn't believe in your idealogy fit as punishment.

God is not my boss, never has been, never will be. Judgement day is every day, not just when your "boss" decides to show up from one of his vacations! There is no bullshit repent for your evil sins, if your a murderer, child molester, a Hitler type, no repen, just bad person.

LM

"LM is a strange person.


Just another troll that doesn't need feeding, I guess. Redneckville, Jackass, and Liberal Mongrel. What dumbasses."

People are strange, when your a stranger.......

I love how after you get caught lying, I become strange. Better strange than a revisionist liar!!

Lisa, I appreciate the non pigeon hole.......we disagree frequntly and agree frequently, doesn't mean that I dislike you, in fact enjoy engaging in civil banter with articulate persons. I have to admit, I do get a special joy out of attacking right wing thugs. They are so used to everyone backing down from them that when a lib gets in their grill they get all disheveled.

LM

Kirk Cameron and evangelist Ray Comfort explain why bananas prove God's existence:

Whoa, MPFC flashback moment...

Sir Bedevere: ...and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped. ...

On Topic?

Hitler was inspired by Darwin?

Uh-huh but he was mostly an occultist.

The Nazi party grew out of several occult groups that sprung up in the late 19th century as a reaction to the advanced materialism and technology of the era[citation needed]. These groups spoke of the coming of a new Messiah that would save Germany. Young Adolf Hitler developed the notion that perhaps he was the chosen one to save the German people.

The political parties created in the wake of the country's defeat in World War I combined nationalistic sentiment and occultist practices to forge an image of a superior German people. Hitler's imprisonment after the failed 1923 Munich Beer Hall Putsch would make him a national hero for his defense of a strong German state, convincing him that he was the Messiah who could save Germany.

Hitler appropriated Christian religious symbols such as the Spear of Destiny and the Holy Grail for his own purposes. He adopted the swastika from Hinduism among many other Sanskrit terms and symbols. The symbol of the Swastika represents the Sun, and also the Wheel of Life turning. The original symbol turns clockwise. The Nazi one turns backwards. The four arms of the original Swastika represent the Four Vedas. The swastika is also the symbol for peace and harmony, as in Buddhism, Jainism and Taoism. It decorates most Hindu homes and temples. Adolf Hitler's rise was the product of forces and events connecting him, his associates and the occult.

en.wikipedia.org

"Social Darwinmism", in which all sorts of unhumane treatment of one's fellow man is justified by an incohernet patchwerk of lunacy, hate and a smattering of actual evolutionary theory had NOTHING to do with Darwin.

It's current home is within the big white tent of the GOP who believe in saving foetuses but letting everyone one else get treated like shit.

Oh, also... Kirk Cameron?

LOL!

Be Well.

As far as LM is concerned, his method is to make Hitler evil incarnate but a Boy Scout all at once. It's the only way his arguments work.

From: www.rr-bb.com

"I'm actually glad that I am mentally ill because I have noticed that a lot of mentally ill people are Christians."


ROFL!

Christian tradition is powerful. People attempt to take personal advantage of that. Hitler was one example. He was just as quick to exploit pagan traditions.

Christian tradition is powerful. Powerful enough that the same person will assert the non-existant Christ was sunlight one day but a real person and damned good magician the next.

It grabs hold of people's imaginations, there's no doubt. That's just one step from their hearts, which must terrify not a few. This is why there are deathbed conversions.

LM:

First of all, thank you for the kind words. I like you too and enjoy conversations with you.

Ok...enough of the mushy stuff back to our discussion.

My beliefs on the subject we are discussing are that you see it as murder. I believe God dictated when we would enter this world and when we leave it.

As our Father, we do get diciplined by Him in many forms.

We all end up dying LM and some deaths are more unpleasant than others. Jesus's death was horribly painful...and for a purpose.The beatings He took that left with with cuts, welts, bruises, etc on His body which he carried to His death are symbolic to Him carrying the sin of Man to His death so we have life.

God has a purpose for everything that happens.

I don't see things the way you do and it's ok, we can agree to disagree.

Jesus's death was horribly painful...and for a purpose

This is one of the more bizarre facets of the god/jesus myth. This would be like me beating one of my children to death to forgive the transgression of the other.

I don't get it.

I guess I am better than god. I can forgive without having to resort to violence. Maybe I could give god some lessons.


The idea that reinterpreting something invalidates it is laughable at best. Many people view the Bible as a good start in the journey for spiritual knowledge, but acknowledge that it was written in different times, for different people, with a different understanding of the world. Those with an "all or nothing" attitude, like Christian fundies, the Taliban, or NoGov4Me, care more about ego than anything else.

#30 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2009-09-25 01:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

I disagree. If something is true, it is as true today as it was 2,000 or 4,000 years ago. Otherwise, nothing is true. I also disagree with those who twist Scripture or cite it out of context and then proclaim how heinous or rediculous the Bible is. I believe the eternally truthful Scripture that states that the fool has said in his heart there is no God. Fools can be very intelligent on any number of subjects; but, lack the ability to perceive Scriptural truth. Indeed, unless the Holy Spirit enlightens the individual, each and everyone of us is stumbling around in the dark. The Noetic effect of sin is rampant throughout the race.

"18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible manand birds and four-footed animals and creeping things." Romans 1

I realize the scoffers will pounce on any Scripture references; but, that is their responsibility before God.

Goatman:

Do you make sacrifices for your children? I'm sure you do/did because I believe you to be a man of principal and one who put his children as a top priority.

We being good parents always make sacrifices for our children. I know I would die for mine.

God foretold of Jesus back in Genesis...He knew our free will would cause us to disobey His commands.

God's will for us was to be saved and we could not do it on our own due to our sinful nature.

God came to us as Jesus to atone for us. God sacrificed Jesus out of His love for us.


God, Jesus and the Holy Sirit are three seperate entities but the same being.

Now I'm sure that will bring about a whole nother discussion!! Lol


Jesus's death was horribly painful...and for a purpose


This is one of the more bizarre facets of the god/jesus myth. This would be like me beating one of my children to death to forgive the transgression of the other.


I don't get it.


I guess I am better than god. I can forgive without having to resort to violence. Maybe I could give god some lessons.

#164 | Posted by goatman at 2009-09-26 04:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

Our inability to fully comprehend the holiness of God often leaves us guessing. We typically want to down play the severity of sin and look for God to grade on a curve. Truth is, an offense against an infinitely holy being is an offense meriting infinite punishment. The only way (at least the only way revealed in Scripture) for God to remain just is for Him to punish sin. To do otherwise would require Him to violate His own being and, if that were possible, He no longer would be God. So, in order to be just and be able to justify anyone who has sinned, He has to punish the offense. That's what the life and death of Christ is about. An infinite being condescended to take on the form of and become flesh, lived a completely obedient life (fulfilling all that God requires of us) and then, while personally innocent, died the death we all deserve because of our sin nature and sinful deeds. As man, Christ was human and thus is one of us. As God, His sacrificial death was of infinite value and able to satisfy God's justice. Therefor, God remains just while also being the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. For those whom God chooses, He imputes (charges) their sin to Christ and imputes (credits) the righteousness of Christ to them.

Now, lest any get worked up about goody two shoes people who arrogantly proclaim their faith as though it originated in themselves, the Bible declares that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. It is a gift from God that God chooses to give; but not based on anything He perceives in the individual. We all come from the same lump of fallen humanity and there is nothing within us to recommend us to God's favor. His choices are according to His divine counsel and that process and reasoning are known only to Him.

Word of God. It is a gift from God that God chooses to give; but not based on anything He perceives in the individual. We all come from the same lump of fallen humanity and there is nothing within us to recommend us to God's favor. His choices are according to His divine counsel and that process and reasoning are known only to Him.

Posted by MACV1972

which is why tinnitus is the true word of G-D ~ no bs:>)

Good post Mac!

Good post Mac!

#169 | Posted by Lisa

no I have hp

Our inability to fully comprehend the holiness of God often leaves us guessing.

That is the same as saying one does not know what one presumes to know. It's impossible to assign attributes to something that can't be observed.

"It's impossible to assign attributes to somehting that can't be observed...."

Unless It has been observed, or has stated what It's attributes are.

"I guess I am better than God...."

Keep guessing.

Unless It has been observed, or has stated what It's attributes are.

#172 | Posted by Zed

the 'word' is tinnitus, I keep tellin' ya ~ Zed:>)

members.fortunecity.com

Bono - U2 lead singer, he even sings about it in his lyrics. Bono derived his name from a hearing aid store in his hometown of Dublin, Ireland which had a sign that read 'Bonavox Hearing Aids'.

Unless It has been observed, or has stated what It's attributes are.

#172 | Posted by Zed

You don't make any sense? The only attribute nothing has is nothing.

"I guess I am better than God...."
Keep guessing.

Anything is better than nothing.

RAY, time to lose that peculiar egocentricity. Just because you haven't observed something doesn't mean others haven't.

You don't see because you don't look. It's a great way to avoid discomfirmation. You didn't even invent the tactic.

God bless you, Kirk Cameron. Spot on....

This guy is a fucking moron..

I never said that the old testament texts didn't mean what they say, just that they were written for a very different culture, a primitive, more brutal culture. IE. not relevant to our own.


#47 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

You mean like Hiroshima or Nagasaki or the fire bombing of Dresden on civilian populations?

users.erols.com

You mean like the Tuskegee syphilis experiments or slavery or or Eugenics in America?

www.cbsnews.com

Man.. I need to take a shit.. I ran out of TP but I have this large page version of the King James version of the bible..Thank God there are plenty of pages

Ummm . . . the Nazis themselves said that eugenics was inspired by Darwinian evolution.

Eugenics was invented in the US and was very poular there.

Hitler was into all sorts of mysticism, like astrology and numerology and other occult "sciences" that were popular at the

That was Himmler. Hitler was a catholic christian.

RAY, time to lose that peculiar egocentricity. Just because you haven't observed something doesn't mean others haven't.
You don't see because you don't look. It's a great way to avoid discomfirmation. You didn't even invent the tactic.

#177 | Posted by Zed

That's what defines hallucination.

Actually, Hitler and the holocaust was the end game of Socialism. The Nazi movement was leftist collectivist socialism (National Socialist Party), not individualistic (right-wing) conservatism, and such control was brought about by many of the things we are now seeing in this county: control over the financial markets, the car companies, energy, and health care. Throw in gun control and if you have a dictator capable of great evil, you can have the holocaust.

That's right, Nazim wasn't individualistic conservatism. It also wasn't leftist socialism. Hitler was glad to kill left wing socialists.

Hitler was a demagogue of the far right. He had no trouble living with that; you should get used to it.

"That's what defines hallucination...."

No.

"Hitler was a Catholic Christian..."

No. Between KISSNTELL and FRIBO it's obvious the History Channel has failed in it's mission.

"Hitler was a Catholic Christian..."

"No."
#188 | Posted by Zed

Yes.


You fail.

www.hollow-hill.com

"You fail....'

You never studied, ZAT.

Actually, Hitler and the holocaust was the end game of Socialism. The Nazi movement was leftist collectivist socialism (National Socialist Party), not individualistic (right-wing) conservatism, and such control was brought about by many of the things we are now seeing in this county: control over the financial markets, the car companies, energy, and health care. Throw in gun control and if you have a dictator capable of great evil, you can have the holocaust.

#185 | Posted by Kissntell

You need to go back to school.. The Fascist movement has ALWAYS been associated with right wing ideology. The use of the "words" NAZI does not denote intent or direction.

Totalitarian regimes have emanated from the left and are considered communist not fascist.

www.ourfuture.org

"Fascism has always been a phenomenon of the right. Every postwar academic scholar of fascismRobert Paxton, Roger Griffin, Umberto Eco, and onwardhas been emphatically clear about this. Mussolini admitted as much. It's part of the very definition of the word."

"You fail....'

You never studied, ZAT.

#190 | Posted by Zed

Yes he was.. why else burn the Jewish people and kill people of non christian faith? It was an extension of a crusades mentality.

"You never studied, ZAT."

blog.writtenbylight.com
2.bp.blogspot.com

That's two FAILS for Zombie Zed and one UTTER FABRICATION for Ray.

"That's what defines hallucination...."
No.
#187 | Posted by Zed

See definition.

1. To imagine and dream unreal things. To have visions; To experience a hallucination.

That's two FAILS for Zombie Zed and one UTTER FABRICATION for Ray.

#193 | Posted by Zatoichi at 2009-09-27 10:08 AM | Reply | Flag: Hallucinating

I'm not involved in this debate about Nazis.

Our inability to fully comprehend the holiness of God often leaves us guessing.

That is the same as saying one does not know what one presumes to know. It's impossible to assign attributes to something that can't be observed.

#171 | Posted by Ray at 2009-09-26 05:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

Not really, Ray. Few, if any of us, fully comprehend the way our cars operate, the properties of gravity (just what is gravity), etc. Yet, we know in part sufficiently to drive our cars and few of us (hopefully) are smart enough to not walk off a cliff.

What we can know of God's holiness is what He has revealed of Himself in Scripture. He reveals everything we CAN know; but not everything He knows.

"To imagine or dream unreal things..."

My point was you are a very limited standard or authority in regards to such things. RAY, Keeper of the Real....There's nothing to suggest to do a better job than anyone else, and something to suggest you may be a shade below average.

I can recommend some reading for you, ZAT.

Those who profess or claim to be Christians but do not conduct themselves accordingly are not genuinely Christians. The unbelieving have used such associations to blast Christ and Christianity for centuries.

Christians will by no means be perfect or sinless in this age; hence the need for a life of continual repentance. However, a virtually continuous practice of immorality is emblematic of one who is not a genuine Christian despite what he or she professes.

"This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." 1 John 1

"Why kill people of non-Christian faith....?"

I don't know. Why did Hitler kill so many Christians?

You won't win this one. Give it up.

"Yes, heaven master is coning. Amen to that! No, this is coming from a pure man's point of view. But I do know something about the end of this world from the bibles point of view. This world is going to end on May 21,2011. There will be no 2012. Next summer of 2010 will be the last official summer we will have before Christ's return. The bible is stating this. It really is too much for me to try to explain in details. Beside I do not want to say, the Lord said, thus and he did not."

in.answers.yahoo.com

Hey Zed, try a history book.
3.bp.blogspot.com

What we can know of God's holiness is what He has revealed of Himself in Scripture. He reveals everything we CAN know; but not everything He knows.
#196 | Posted by MACV1972

You cannot know anything about something that cannot be observed. It's just common sense. Your beliefs affect your feelings, and that's all. It is not proof of fact.

"It's popular among Christian apologists to claim that Hitler, the Nazis, and the Holocaust are all consequences of atheism, secularism, and liberalism. Such arguments fly in the face of reality: Adolf Hitler regularly proclaimed his faith in God, Nazi ideology was committed to supporting Christianity (on its terms, of course), and Nazi anti-Semitism was firmly grounded in Christian anti-Semitism. Hitler's theism, religiosity, and Christianity are strongly supported in his own words."

atheism.about.com

"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so."

- Adolf Hitler, to General Gerhard Engel, 1941

"....the personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of the Jew."

- Adolf Hitler (following the position of Martin Luther), Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 11

"The fact that the Curia is now making its peace with Fascism shows that the Vatican trusts the new political realities far more than did the former liberal democracy with which it could not come to terms. ...The fact that the Catholic Church has come to an agreement with Fascist Italy ...proves beyond doubt that the Fascist world of ideas is closer to Christianity than those of Jewish liberalism or even atheistic Marxism..."

- Adolf Hitler in an article in the Vlkischer Beobachter, February 29, 1929, on the new Lateran Treaty between Mussolini's fascist government and the Vatican

"Today Christians ... stand at the head of [this country]... I pledge that I never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity .. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit ... We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press - in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess during the past ... (few) years."

- Adolf Hitler, quoted in: The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1 (London, Oxford University Press, 1942), pg. 871-872

img.photobucket.com

"we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess"

Fascinating.

My point was you are a very limited standard or authority in regards to such things. RAY, Keeper of the Real....There's nothing to suggest to do a better job than anyone else, and something to suggest you may be a shade below average.
#197 | Posted by Zed

Again. You cannot know what you pretend to know. Your beliefs originated at a time when it was believed that invisible beings controlled the forces of nature. Over two thousand years have since passed. Today it is commonly understood, with mountains of evidence, that nature is a force unto itself, independent of beliefs.

You over relied on your feelings to tell you what is truth. Feelings can't do that. They react to what we perceive which is not necessarily based on facts of nature. It's that simple.

#167 | Posted by MACV1972

Fine post Mac--very humbling in many respects.

What is all the bluster about accepting the fact that Hitler was using Darwin-like theories to quicken the death of millions of people Hitler felt inferior?


It is like the discovery of the atom--then came the atom bomb.
------

Then there is Darwin and his theory, which has more holes than a sieve, some dispproven, some found to be obvious.

All one has to do is observe the dog breeding in the US to see that forced evolution, forced natural selection--was wetted by Darwinism.

As for man coming from primoridal soup or descended from chimps--too many holes and just not credible.

Cameron is trying to evilize Darwin with Hitler. Some folks will agree, some won't.

But is the same tactic as those who claim the discoverer of the atom also created the atom bomb.


"The Speeches of Adolf Hitler...."

Fascinating. Even today there are people taken in by Adolf Hitler. Ein Reich, ein Volk, ein Fuhrer, y'all.

I can still recommend some reading to you. As in books. You do remember them?

"You cannot know what you pretend to know..."

Yes. And I assume I can know what I do know. "My" beliefs originated in my lifetime, in response to things I've seen and heard.

"Today it is commonly understood...That nature is a force unto itself...."

That's NOT the consensus. After all the things that have been posted here, argued about, and linked to in this forum, it's interesting you assert that.

Science is much more conflicted on this topic than you are. Which is proper, because scientists for the most part still seek to be honest. You, I think we can agree, aren't a scientist.

You erect a straw dog here: No one has stated to you the unviverse is dependent upon my or anyone's beliefs. Quite the opposite. This makes me wonder how much you've ever paid attention.

Hitler may have proclaimed for God as many tyrants throughout history have done, and he may have claimed to be a Christian in an attempt to disarm those who would oppose him, but he was a sick-to his-depths-souless-creature straight from hell. H was given power over the lives of millions by a populace seeking a "savior" who were duped by his charisma, and multiple millions died at his evil hand.

The "actor" Kirk Cameron.

Kirk Cameron inspired...um.....um....nobody
?

Then there is Darwin and his theory, which has more holes than a sieve, some dispproven, some found to be obvious.
All one has to do is observe the dog breeding in the US to see that forced evolution, forced natural selection--was wetted by Darwinism.
As for man coming from primoridal soup or descended from chimps--too many holes and just not credible.
Cameron is trying to evilize Darwin with Hitler. Some folks will agree, some won't.
But is the same tactic as those who claim the discoverer of the atom also created the atom bomb.

#208 | POSTED BY MURPHY

HUH?? You are fucking stupid as a rock and what the hell is the word "evilize" ?

but he was a sick-to his-depths-souless-creature straight from hell.

#212 | POSTED BY KISSNTELL

Which is why he scares the hell out of people because he has the same DNA as you are or I and his manifested in a way that resulted in millions dead. You and I and everyone has has the same genes he possessed just in a different arrangement due to .. Ahem..breeding and chance.

" HUH?? You are fucking stupid as a rock and what the hell is the word "evilize" ? "

#215 | Posted by Legio at 2009-09-27 07:46 PM |

Murphy didn't do well in biology.

Hitler did use Darwin as a philosophical basis for his super race.. Kirk isn't the first person to notice that..

What's the issue?

The Nazis attempted to justify their monstrous acts through numerous appeals to new ideas, the intellecual class, etc.

They cherry-picked like crazy, ignoring context quite often.

Hitler and his gang did the same with Nietzsche, yet the late philosopher had almost nothing good to say about Germans in general.

How well would the following quotations have gone over with the Fuehrer and his inner circle?

From Ecce Homo: Germans "have no conception how vile they are"; "wheresoever Germany penetrated, she ruins culture".

Of course, these are two quotations out of many, and they are relatively benign compared to some of the other things Nietzsche had to say about Germany. The rest are a short google search away. Or, better yet, pick up a book and see for yourself, first-hand.

Nazis took advantage of Nietzschean ideas - after he was dead and not around to correct them - and the same happened to Darwin.

Aren't the Christians always screaming and crying about context, too?

Perhaps...until the need to take the opposition out of context becomes a strategic goal...

"As for man coming from primoridal soup or descended from chimps--too many holes and just not credible."


You post nonsense woman.....no major holes in evolution theory,even your church has finally said it's true, but you fail to listen to your own "teachers". Now a book of stolen religions re-written a few times where every major miracle has been debunked certainly has no holes........

LM

LMAO, Hypercritical to say the least, isn't it a fact most wars over the centuries were fought over religion and millions have been killed in the name of 1 god or another,i think that man made god to control the people and not a god made man.IF GOD MADE MAN WHO MADE GOD????

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