Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs

Roger Daltrey's upcoming solo tour is named "Use It or Lose It," a reference to -- as bandmate Pete Townshend puts it -- "his aging vocal chords." In an interview with Rolling Stone, Daltrey was even more blunt, "These are the last years of my life that I can sing that material," he confessed. Shawn Amos of Yahoo Music writes that he, like Elton John, Whitney Houston and others, has already lost it.

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That should be "TC Helicon and many others make " not made.. sorry

Did somebody say Bluegrass?

nmg_no , My Dad was an avid picker. He worked for 10c a day as a kid until he saved $20 , then went to town and bought himself a new Kay mandolin. That was the summer of '41. I look at it and remember him playing it every so often, but I can't pick it.

Now Daltrey can sing, "I hope I die before I sound old."

Pretty soon we won't need people at all.


Pretty soon we won't need people at all.

#5 | Posted by kanrei at 2009-09


can I send in a list of the first to go...lol

seriously

I still remember when the first pat williams jazz album came out. we were amazed that all the trpt parts were played by one person..all the sax by one...et cetera
until the prof reminded us

thats a lot of people NOT getting hired.

Martha Reeves (Martha and the Vandellas) lost it some time ago but I'd still pay to her sing "Love is Like a Heat Wave".

Without today's studio tricks, I don't think any of today's singers can sing their songs. At least the people in this story at one time could sing.

Let me tell y'all what it's like
Being male, middle-class and white
It's a bitch, if you don't believe
Listen up to my new CD

(Sham-on)

I got shit running through my brain
So intense that I can't explain
All alone in my white-boy pain
Shake your booty while the band complains

I'm rockin' the suburbs
Just like Michael Jackson did
I'm rockin' the suburbs
Except that he was talented
I'm rockin' the suburbs
I take the checks and face the facts
That some producer with computers
fixes all my shitty tracks

I'm pissed off but I'm too polite
When people break in the McDonald's line
Mom and Dad you made me so uptight
I'm gonna cuss on the mic tonight
I don't know how much I can take
Girl, give me something I can break

I'm rockin' the suburbs
Just like Quiet Riot did
I'm rockin' the suburbs
Except that they were talented
I'm rockin' the suburbs
I take the checks and face the facts
That some producer with computers
fixes all my shitty tracks

Ben Folds

Autotune has no soul.

Death to Autotune
www.youtube.com

Ever watch some of the doo wop or other oldies concerts on PBS fundraising specials? It's amazing how many of those old farts (older even than aflac, and he remembers when John McCain was in diapers. The first time, I mean)still manage to sound pretty good.
A lot of the rockers burned their voices out on stage, and some, like Cocker, never really had one. But they're all still better than a Britney Spears-like digital "song".

Elton John's voice is still quite good. He lost his falsetto way back in the 70's after throat surgery. His voice changed to a lower, blusier growl but it still kicked ass. unfortunately Elton's Queen Bee persona sometimes gets in the way of his extraordinary talent.

Even Geddy Lee can still sing the old Rush songs. They are in a lower key, but he still sounds good.

Bob Dylan hasn't sung good in forty years-- since New Morning. Blood on the Tracks is OK though.

The dude from Procol Harum (Whiter Shade of Pale) can still bring it.

The guy from Pink Floyd who does the low parts is completely shot.

I heard some Styx re-records for the Rock Band game and I must say Tommy Shaw still sounds exactly like Tommy Shaw. I was amazed.

It is sad when I hear some of the older greats trying to sing again and they've noticably lost their magic.

It's kinda like the Brett Favre syndrome....time to give it a rest.

Sorry Brett...I still love you!!

I know they aren't that old, but I saw The Cure back in 2004. Robert Smith's voice filled every cubic millimeter of the air, not a sign of it slipping. As far as the band's ability to create, well, that's another story (sorry to any who may love the new Cure stuff).

This story is not really big news, of course great singing voices are going to fade over time. I think the bigger story is all of the new great stars, WHO HAVE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO SING.....EVER(YET THEY ARE WORSHIPPED BY THE AMERICAN IDIOT). In this age of high tech electronics and sound manipulation you can make even a stinker, like Britney Spears sound great. Throw on a skimpy outfit, a ton of makeup and sleek dancers and the American idiot will worship just about any lipsynching stinkbag.Remember when Ashley Simpsons prerecorder crap at her concert failed, she was sunk. Bring back Johnny Cash!

the dude from Motley Crue sounds better than he did back when they were actually scoring hits (not saying much), but the guitarist looks like he's gonna drop over at any moment.

Tick,
It aint the "American Idiot" because those losers are even bigger in Europe. Can you say HOFF?

#19 posted by Lisa

Favre can die of gonorrhea and rot it hell. JK, I still like him, but I can't watch football this season. Was trying to watch the Cubs in a sports bar a couple weeks back, and on the adjacent screen was a Vikings preseason game. I saw a glimpse and quickly averted my gaze, but the nausea was powerful. I went to undergrad in the state of Minnesota as a Packers fan... thus, the sting is amplified.

i think the surviving two Beatles (bassist and drummer who lost their vocalist and guitarist) should get together with the surviving two members of the Who (guitarist and vocalist who lost their bassist and drummer) and form a band called the Whootles.

"(YET THEY ARE WORSHIPPED BY THE AMERICAN IDIOT)

#21 | Posted by tickyul"


Green Day?

"American Idiot"

Don't want to be an American idiot.
Don't want a nation under the new mania
And can you hear the sound of hysteria?
The subliminal mind fuck America.

Welcome to a new kind of tension.
All across the alien nation.
Where everything isn't meant to be okay.
Television dreams of tomorrow.
We're not the ones who're meant to follow.
For that's enough to argue.

Well maybe I'm the faggot America.
I'm not a part of a redneck agenda.
Now everybody do the propaganda.
And sing along to the age of paranoia.

Welcome to a new kind of tension.
All across the alien nation.
Where everything isn't meant to be okay.
Television dreams of tomorrow.
We're not the ones who're meant to follow.
For that's enough to argue.

Don't want to be an American idiot.
One nation controlled by the media.
Information age of hysteria.
It's calling out to idiot America.

Welcome to a new kind of tension.
All across the alien nation.
Where everything isn't meant to be okay.
Television dreams of tomorrow.
We're not the ones who're meant to follow.
For that's enough to argue.

i think the surviving two Beatles (bassist and drummer who lost their vocalist and guitarist) should get together with the surviving two members of the Who (guitarist and vocalist who lost their bassist and drummer) and form a band called the Whootles.
#25 | Posted by NerfHerder

Apples and Oranges.

The Who outclasses the Beatles in musicianship.

I'm a Beatles fan much more than a Who fan. Especially since Entwistle is dead.

I hope I die before I sound old.

#4 | Posted by Grendel

You don't want to live very long, do you?

The Who dominated the Beatles in every aspect of musicianship so thouroughly that there really isn't much of a comparison to make.

#27 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2009-09-18 12:50 PM

There, FTFY.

I solved my aging problem by switching to a baritone guitar. Can't sing in E anymore? Try a instrument purposely designed to be strung B to B. Although, re-arranging Jumpin' Jack Flash to be sung five notes down would make Mick sound like Perry Como.

Or one could consider going contralto, but that's a tad too extreme for me.

LOL, thanks I guess.

I think Lennon/McCartney were far better songwriters than Townsend, but from a performance perspective, you are spot on.

"I solved my aging problem by switching to a baritone guitar. Can't sing in E anymore? Try a instrument purposely designed to be strung B to B"

Didn't want to learn new chord fingerings?

But seriously, how is a baritone guitar different from a standard? Is the neck longer? Don't we call that a bass?

Lennon was a musical piker. Nothing more.

-how is a baritone guitar different from a standard?

It smoked when it was younger.

en.wikipedia.org

Hard to compare Beatles performances to the Who's because the Beatles stopped touring 5 years into their existence and then broke up without touring.


Lennon was a musical piker. Nothing more.

#33 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2009-09-18 01:24 PM | Reply | Flag: Wholly unnecessary.

Since other folks are putting lyrics on here.. I've always kidded around with my little amateur band and quoted a David Allen Coe song (and from what I read Coe is really a jerk, but I'll still quote him)

In the song, a hitchhiker on his way to Nashville is picked up by the ghost of Hank Williams.. and actually.. the advice Ol Hank gives the kid is both good advice and a dividing line between good and mediocre performers..

"Boy can you make folks cry when play and sang?
Have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strangs?
Boy, can you make folks feel what you feel inside?"

That is the difference between a digital performer, and a real one. . of any musical genre. (I think)

nmg_no , My Dad was an avid picker. He worked for 10c a day as a kid until he saved $20 , then went to town and bought himself a new Kay mandolin. That was the summer of '41. I look at it and remember him playing it every so often, but I can't pick it. #2

That mandolin is probably worth some bucks now.. but probably not as much as your remembrance of your Dad..
I don't play mandolin well, but I do a bit.. I play banjo a bit but not well, and piano a bit.. I'm a pretty decent guitar player, and still sing quite a bit, although what used to be a 1st tenor voice is now a 2nd tenor at best, and sliding toward a baritone.. For a long time we had the incredible female singer in our band, and I just concentrated on singing harmony with her..

I'm going to Townsend, TN (Smokey Mountain NP) on the last Friday and Sat of this month for what amounts to a two day acoustic jam session.. Anyone could come, and even if you barely play.. you'd enjoy it.

I play drums and a little guitar.

You'll HATE this Kanrei.. we just bought electric drums.. mainly... because we got tired of lugging the acoustic ones around.. it ain't the same.. but our drummer has gotten used to them and doesn't complain as much anymore...

You're right, I do hate it. Drum machines sucks and electronic drums almost as much.

I'm w you on Drum machines.. and I like accoustic better too (except for hauling the dang things around).. but if you haven't listened to the sound that electric drums now do.,. go by Guitar Center or someplace and do it..

As a drummer you might notice the diff.. but I'll just about guarantee you no-one else will..

They're nice for quick setups and for places where the room acoustics don't handle drums well..

But, I'm used to drummers whining anyhow :)

It isn't only the sound, but the "feel," the bounce- pads do not respond like heads do. And don't even get me started on those stupid cymbal pads.

The one thing electronic drums have that I do wish my drums had is a volume switch.

Hard to compare Beatles performances to the Who's because the Beatles stopped touring 5 years into their existence and then broke up without touring.

#35 | Posted by kanrei at 2009-09-18 01:34 PM

That's because they couldn't play their shit. Apparently, 3 notes a head bobble was a little much for them.

I almost took that bait LOD. NICE ONE! You almost got me.

You'll HATE this Kanrei.. we just bought electric drums.. mainly... because we got tired of lugging the acoustic ones around.. it ain't the same.. but our drummer has gotten used to them and doesn't complain as much anymore...

#40 | Posted by nmg_no at 2009-09-18 02:14 PM

Probably because he sounds much better now that a machine is compensating for his uneven strokes, poor tuning techniques, and years old resonant heads.

I almost took that bait LOD. NICE ONE! You almost got me.

#46 | Posted by kanrei at 2009-09-18 02:46 PM

Damn...

No damn, it was great! I had my response all typed out and then this little voice in my head said "you've been trolled you fool."

The one thing electronic drums have that I do wish my drums had is a volume switch.

#44 | Posted by kanrei at 2009-09-18 02:32 PM

Buy some dampening pads. They have 'em for cymbals and drums alike. The only thing with that was I hated the kick drum dampener; I play a lot of extended double kick patterns, and reducing the stroke by half with the big old thick kick pad kinda fucked up my muscle memory for a while.

I never got into double bass drumming. I am a diehard Bonham fan and, if he could do it with one pedal, then I am going to as well. I also use the 2B "Treetrunks" he used and have a 26 inch bass.

My son is going to start taking private drum lessons soon.

They don't start in school until the 5th grade so he is one grade too young, but we're going to let him start this year.

Does anyone know where we can get a good deal on soundproofing insulation??

Don't start him off on drums first. Buy a practice pad. They make some that use drum heads so he can learn the bounce. Also, you want the book on drum techniques to start him off.

I started with this book and it was great.

www.amazon.com

We already have it for him, Kan. That's exactly what we intend to do.

And thanks for the book link!

I never got into double bass drumming. I am a diehard Bonham fan and, if he could do it with one pedal, then I am going to as well. I also use the 2B "Treetrunks" he used and have a 26 inch bass.

#51 | Posted by kanrei at 2009-09-18 02:54 PM

Nice!

Seriously, buy that book. I don't know a single drummer who did not start with Haskell Harr.

BTW Kan, what'd you think of the "drummer troll" I laid down at #47?

I ignored it =D

I saw The Who 30 years ago, and they had already lost Keith Moon, so they were no longer at their peak. Of course, Kenny Jones is no slouch, and it was still a memorable show - too memorable, in fact. December 3, 1979, Cincinnati, 11 people trampled to death, though I didn't know about that part until I got back home. Daltrey and the rest o' the boys still sounded great.

But I digress.

Anyway, yeah, everybody's voice goes to hell after a while. Thanks to the vagaries of age, drugs and a Super-Size carton of cRaZy fRiEs, Brian Wilson can't hit those gorgeous falsetto notes like he used to.

And then we die.

Funny yet sad article (understudies for the Culture Club - hee hee). Enjoy life all you can, while you can. And even when you get old, do what you like. Even Daltrey after his prime is still the same guy, the same Roger Daltrey who was one of rock's greatest all-time vocalists. If you need to relive the greatness, buy a copy of "Quadrophenia" and crank that motha.

I almost took that bait LOD. NICE ONE! You almost got me.

#46 | Posted by kanrei at 2009-09-18 02:46 PM

Damn...
#48 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

I almost took that bait too.

3 notes and a head bobble?

You bastard!

*shakes fist at sky.

It was one of the best unanswered trolls I have ever seen here.

#60-61 - Yes, gentlemen, I already had my highly offended retort fired up and ready. But I was able to douse the flames and hide the evidence thanks to five minutes' interruption from a friend.

Me too CB. I had a Johnson sized post ready to go until I realized I had been trolled. IT was a work of art.

"I had a Johnson sized post ready to go until I realized I had been trolled. IT was a work of art."

Your Johnson, or The Johnson?

Huge difference.

LOL,
Mine, it was big AND had value.

"Mine, it was big AND had value."

Link?

You want a link to my Johnson?

"You want a link to my Johnson?"

Why, you have a prince albert or something?

You know, think how funny it would be to scan your anus, and then everytime somebody asked for a link to prove an assertion, you could link them to your asshole.
Sort of like Rick-Rolling them...

I'll be right back, I'm going to go see if the copier/scanner is free...

#69 - Actually, 101, that butt-link idea? It's already been done. Here's a quick instructional video: www.youtube.com

I'll be right back, I'm going to go see if the copier/scanner is free...
#69 | Posted by 101Chairborne

I'm so alone at the office right now, but every pdf I make has to be routed through the server first.

Its a real sin.

Those with some classical training don't lose their voice, even though their tonal quality changes as they age. James Taylor and Linda Rondstadt come to mind. Joan Baez still sounds good even though she needs to get to bed early.

All these artists sing on pitch live. But, Linda needs a scrolling teleprompter so she won't forget the words.

a couple of things come to mind.
in rock and roll... when a rock singer can no longer sing, what do they do? they sing.
how many up and comers sound good live...really live, without tapes?
few.
not many rock singers can really hit pitch anyway.
surely not daltrey. he has never sung a song all the way thru where the pitch is the same from g to g or what have you.
that said, he was a great rock singer.
age... ask greg lake. his once-clear voice now sounds like a frog run thru some effects box. a pack of marlboro a day doesn't help.
as for dieing before one gets old.
i'm sure townshend is ok.
his intellect always made the band and he has lived long enough to see his remarks put in perspective.

all the best.

Personally, I like Robert Plant's approach. Get new material, seriously re-arrange your old chestnuts to cover for what you've lost and get Allison Krause to do half the show.

& Allison can sing!

#60-63

With these reviews, I'm tempted to try that troll on some other forums, maybe youtube, or a fan site for that new Rock Band video game.


There is a documentary on one of the cable channels, sorry don't know which one, maybe showtime, that is about the whole history of the Who. I watched it and it was a very good show. very well made.



On the dry and dusty road
The nights we spend apart alone
I need to get back home to cool cool rain.
The nights are hot and black as ink
I can't sleep and I lay and I think
Oh God, I need a drink of cool cool rain.



With these reviews, I'm tempted to try that troll on some other forums, maybe youtube, or a fan site for that new Rock Band video game.
#76 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

Let me know how that works out for you. You're going to cause more than one eye to twitch uncontrollably.

Stephen Stills went from being the coolest-sounding singer to a croaking frog before the 70's was even over. He only stays with Crosby and Nash because they do such a good job of covering for him.

Steve is their lead guitar and a great songwriter.

He's never made a bad album

Stills-Young with that buffalo on the cover is outa this world

Neil Young can still sing, write and play way better than anyone form his era and most of the young guys out there today.

I saw Neil at Concord while Shrub was still destroying the country. This was after his brain aneurism (stroke). He danced rings around the fat Stills & Crosby and fit Nash. Tore up the stage. Fucking awesome, but no match for Santana's Supernatural Tour.

I saw Whitney Houston perform on Good Morning America.

Awful!

Evidentally smoking crack cracks your voice.

"I hope Neil Young will remember.. a southern man don't need him around anyhow"
Lynrd Skynrd

"Grandpa pissed his pants again
He don't give a damn
Brother Billy has both guns drawn
He ain't been right since Vietnam

"Sweet home Alabama"
Play that dead band's song
Turn those speakers up full blast
Play it all night long

Daddy's doing Sister Sally
Grandma's dying of cancer now
The cattle all have brucellosis
We'll get through somehow

"Sweet home Alabama"
Play that dead band's song
Turn those speakers up full blast
Play it all night long"- Warren Zevon

To hell with these vocal enhancers. If you're a real singer, you adapt your old material and write new material that suits that changes in your voice. If you're just a screamer...your 15 minutes were probably up a long time ago.

Hag....way up there around #32, you asked..
"Didn't want to learn new chord fingerings?"

Here's a list of tunings I can (more or less) play in, all of which have their own unique fingering:
EADGBE (standard)
EBDGAD (Em add9--David Crosby wrote Guinnevere in this tuning)
DADGBE (drop D)
DADGBD (double drop D)
DADGAD (the King of alternate tunings)
DADF#AD (popular slide tuning)
DADFAD (very esoteric minor D tuning)
DADDAD (Steve Stills does "Suite Judy Blue Eyes" in this tuning, only he cranks certain strings up a whole step to do the song in E, becoming EBEEBE)
DADEAD (my personal favorite)
DAEEAD (a tuning the late Michael Hedges OWNED--his version of "All Along The Watchtower" will knock your socks off)
DGDGBD (G tuning--a popular folk and slide tuning)
CGCGBD (C tuning)

I mostly use the baritone now for any song with vocals. It's strung C to C but the fingering is the same for EADGBE, only down four notes. Over the past four years or so, I've been using a Shubb partial capo www.shubb.com that frets off three notes in first position to make a sus4 chord at the nut. It's a fake DADGAD, only with regular fingering. Everything in front of the capo is the same, you just don't have access to A#, D# & G#.

Thank you, and that will be $30 for today's lesson.

More cow bell!

Sorry...typo...make that last tuning CGCGCD. I forgot to take the 2nd string up a half-step to C.

Etta James has lost it also. Compare her At Last original to a recent effort, and Beyonce.

Original

Recent

Compared to Beyonce

Singers who sang at the top of their range when they were young shouldn't be expected to be able to keep it up.


Singers who sang at the top of their range when they were young shouldn't be expected to be able to keep it up.

#90 | Posted by Timex at 2009-09-19 06:33 PM | Reply | Flag


Agreed---that's why the name of the thread is:

When Singers Can't Sing Their Songs Anymore

Leonard Cohen collapses on stage
news.bbc.co.uk


at the top of their range when they were young shouldn't be expected to be able to keep it up.

#90 | Posted by Timex


This is exactly what I tell my wife.

#92, oh, the irony - Leonard never COULD sing his songs. Sure has written some good ones though.

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