Lisa, are you in accord with Operation Rescue's tactics? (I expect you're anti-abortion, with no wiggle room, and probably anti-Roe v. Wade.)

No, I'm not being a jerk. I respect your faith.

Lisa: Thank you for your candor and what I feel is sincerity.

"... And yes, I know first hand what rape victims go through so no need to make that reference."

Well, I wouldn't, but someone would. (Although fairly, that is part of what was in my head when I used the phrase "wiggle room.")

"My problem with all this comes to play because I don't think the government should dictate what a woman can and can not do with her body."

Sticky, isn't it?

"I would hope the woman would sacrifice nine months of her entire lifetime in order to give her child a chance at having a life itself. But that is just my personal opinion.
Ultimately that decision of having an abortion is one that the woman will have to explain to God, not me."

At first blush, I find myself thinking, "This is the kind of Christian I like." Then I'm not sure (well, I still like you : ) ) because that last line could be read as you still judging negatively, morally, a woman who chooses to abort a pregnancy (no matter the reason).

I'm not a woman, and I don't even play one on the Internet. I can say with certainty that until I was with the woman who is now my wife, having a child would have been a terrible idea--for the child. Whether I would have argued for an abortion, had a pregnancy arisen in an earlier relationship or liaison, I don't know. My powers of speculation and of knowing my previous self are not that strong.

A good friend of mine says that he thinks abortion is wrong but it's not up to him. He has been very consistent in this. I expect he would, had the situation arisen, pushed for the pregnant sex partner (or romantic partner) to have the child and either give it up for adoption or they would have raised it. It never happened that way, though he and a lover came close once. He holds to Roe v. Wade and prays (well, maybe he doesn't really pray--I'm not sure how serious he is about religion these days) for people not to have to face the choice.

"Why? Because the majority of abortions are used as birth control!!"

Lisa, you have my respect on your beliefs (though I will add that it feels as if you are still judging, not hating, but judging--the two can be separate), but I really need to see evidence of this. My wife and I almost went through a decision to have an abortion--well, we knew we would if the test came back positive. There was a fear our second child would have Trisomy 18, which is a death sentence. I won't get into how the discussions went or our reasons (if one looks it up, it should be clear why we might feel that way), but it was not an easy conversation. And luckily (or thank God : ) ), this was not the case. So how many abortions are for reasons like that or health of the mother, and how many are birth control? And how in the world can you know?

And then there was this:

"What about a man who WANTS his child but the woman wants an abortion.
Should he have rights to say he wants his child born?"

I think he should certainly have rights to say what he wants, to express his values and beliefs and desires. The question really is, Who should have the ultimate say. The easy answer is, the woman. But... Yeah, thorny, this one. Interesting conversation. Now let me turn it around--what if the man _doesn't_ want the child but the woman does. Whose desires override whose? Of course, it's not this simple.

Clearly, I don't believe life begins at conception.

Now... Hagbard...

"If you aren't raped or molested, I'd say that you are using abortion as a means of birth control, by definition. What other uses of abortion are there? Its not like people don't know that sex can lead to pregnancy."

Damned literalist. And if you want to go there, "abortion" is a term that covers many things, not just this argument, which is over "elective abortion." Miscarriage, medically speaking, is an abortion.

But here's what I wanna get back to:

"Oh, no, too soon for that. Who do you think I am, Obama? I don't give away all my cards before they are even dealt."

That shit was funny. (Although I don't think he really does that.) But there is a real question. I'm not willing to give up anything for overturning Roe v. Wade. It's a right; it has been established. Overturning it is not an option, and would lead to a constitutional morass because the ruling is based on inherent privacy rights (that's not the legal phrase) arrived at by interpretation of the bill of rights.

The whole thing should be turned into a movement to make abortions rare, not to outlaw them. How do you do that? Education, birth control, freedom to use, etc. Stuff that many will decry as liberal sex-maniac agenda. Which is of course bullshit. Guess what? Teenagers are going to have sex--so pushing them to abstinence will not work. Teach them to make _wise choices_. Hell, that's true of older people too. There are at least a few occasions where, um, I could have ended up a father. There but for the grace of God go I...

"A reminder that teachers are not to use extension cords
in their classrooms. Please see Scott if you have such a
need. Also, if you are bringing supplemental lighting or
other electrical devices into your classroom, please have
Scott approve these prior to their use."

That's what I thought you were going for, then by the time I got through responding to Lisa (gettting carried away, admittedly : ) ), I forgot that I had realized what you really meant.

Damn. I suck.

(Though the privacy penumbra--or whatever it's called--would still be an issue. The right wing should be concerned about that. I mean, they keep talking about civil liberties and constitutional rights, which is ironic as all hell.)