Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs

Seems as of late that standard claim from the rightwing talking points playbook is to accuse President Obama of being "socialist". In effect, attempting to demonize the word in the same way that Reagan demonized the word "liberal" 25 years ago. Fortunately it seems unlikely to really have the intended impact accept among the proverbial choir of hardcore rightwingers who glob to any utile propaganda to drown out reasoned discussion.
As others have pointed out, almost every aspect of currently society is monitored or outright controlled by the government. To claim to desire that government get out of the lives of citizens has become absurd to the point of stupid. And it is those areas, such as healthcare, where the govt is not involved that the most reform clearly is needed.

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If it is a dirty thing to be socialist leaning, then consider me a dirty man. And, given the rightwing alternatives, proud of it.

if liberals were truly as liberal as they THINK they are, there'd be NO NEED for ANY social programs as they'd surely tend to all their neighbors' needs, yes? and we greedy conservatives would just keep to ourselves.

you probably don't give as much as some of the poorest people i know, moder8. whiner.

if rightwing christians truly as christian as they THINK they are, the earth would be a paradise and there would be no such thing as money.

you probably don't give a tenth of your time, energy and money to the poorest people as I do, i know, Nanc. whiner.

Well Masturb8, I'll give you credit for at least being honest about it. Only one person in the Congress is honest enought to run under the Socialist banner and incredibly enough win. The others hide, some in the Democratic Party and others in the GOP.

Just as most rightwingers are total whores to the philosophy that big business will solve all our economic problems if we all just collectively bend over and let corporations do as they please.

i'll give you the benefit of the doubt, moder8, but can you say the same thing about all your socialist buddy friends? would we have need for a socialized government if they'd put their time and efforts where their pieholes are?

at least i CAN and DO say the same holds true for people from my side of the fence - the church, for instance - i've railed on them as long as i've been a practicing christian - greedy bunch of nogooders! precisely why i have chosen NOT to regularly attend a church and we give to only those charities we KNOW are doing something to make a difference in the lives of people.

#5 - how many poor people do you know employ people?

How many employers created poor people by laying them off or "outsourcing" their jobs?

if people don't work, where WILL government get their money?

Moder8, big business loves big government. This (economic) right winger dislikes big business as much as big government.

Big Business sometimes seek regulation in order to prevent small players from entering an industry as such regulation make things expensive. And not to mention big corporate welfare subsidies.

Big Bussiness was thrilled with big government last year buecause it was big enought to save their ass even thought they didn't deserve it. I wasn't thrilled at all.

you know I have heard it asked. How many poor people employ people and their answer is always zero. I disagree. I would argue that vast majorities of poor people employ rich folks because if it weren't for poor people to prey upon the rich would not be making very much money. Think about it. Isn't the customer supposed to be the boss of any corporation?? If so don't these poor people when they spend what little they have on goods and services become the employer?? Just curious.

Larry

"Moder8, big business loves big government. This (economic) right winger dislikes big business as much as big government. "

Bullshit. Big business loves whatever is profitable. If it means deregulation and less government, fine. More regulation, fine. At the same time, fine. The auto companies lobbied for government protection (tariffs) and against government regulation (fuel, safety standards) at the same time.

Big Businesses that blindly argue for derregulation thinking that it will help them don't understand that a derregulated market makes innovation more possible, meaning consumers could always find substitutes for their products.

The auto industry is an interesting case. Consumers bought (foreign) cars they considered to be of better quality, many of them more fuel efficient. Not regulating the gasoline standards did not help them, but the consumer voted with their wallet anyways.

"Isn't the customer supposed to be the boss of any corporation?"

No


"Isn't the customer supposed to be the boss of any corporation?"


No

Posted by JOE at 2009-09-16 01:07 PM | Reply


Sure they are because they are the ones who fund the corporation. If the customer base dried up how would they make bank??

Larry

Larry, the boss(es) of a corporation are stockholders, the boss(es) of a small business is the guy started it and runs it. In any case, the customer should be priority number 1, making then happy in the long term makes stockholders happy/makes the owner rich. Rich people don't prey on poor people.

Rich people may have an idea and the capital to do something, but can't do all the work themselves. Poor people have skills they sell to the rich in exchange for a paycheck. It's mutually beneficial. People are paid according to how productive they are. The economy gets distorted when politicians think they know better how much people "should" earn. This causes problems for everyone, including other poor people.

#11 | Posted by LarryMohr - and how many poor people have you worked for, larry?

#11 - i mean for a non-governmental paycheck?

Socialism is bad, Communism is good, but cannot exist where there is a government and, since countries seem to need governments, Communism is an impossibility and socialism is still evil.

Let's put it this way, if no ivestor had invested capital to create the company, there would be no customers. Customers are necessary to keep the company going, but they don't own the company, they consume the product.

"Big Businesses that blindly argue for derregulation thinking that it will help them don't understand "

What they "understand" or don't understand is irrelevant. They spend money lobbying both for and against "big government". Big business has no ideological commitment to "free markets" or "big government" or anything else except what helps their bottom line.

It might be irrelevant to you, but the results don't change. Regulattion promotes big business and less regulation promotes more competition and innovation.

- Regulattion promotes big business and less regulation promotes more competition and innovation.


Only regulation bought and paid for by big business promotes big business. Consumer protection laws do not.

Less regulation promotes national economic meltdowns, as we so well know.

But, as so many have fallen for Ronnie Reagan's evil government mantra instead the American government of, by, and for the people ideal, we understand your confusion.

"It might be irrelevant to you, but the results don't change."

That's not the point. You said big business loves big government. You were wrong. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't, depending on whether it increases their profits. Ideology has nothing to do with it.

Nullifidian is absolutely correct. Big business loves whatever helps make it the most money. Usually that means the government not telling them what they can and can not do. Hell, if it were up big business they would be allowed to dump industrial waste in your back yard rather than pay the exhorbitant costs of properly storing it in a safe manner in a safe location.

Big business loves whatever helps make it the most money.

Well, big government loves whatever helps it get the most power, which includes the money from big business. Moder8 has to be terribly naive to think politicans are helpless victims.

Socialism has never worked because it has no means of creating wealth. Without profits there can be no wealth creation, only poverty.

Big business has no ideological commitment to "free markets" or "big government" or anything else except what helps their bottom line.

Neither do voters. The disease inflitrates all levels of American society.

So what we are left with is a nation of neighbor stealing from neighbors (socialism/fascism). The decline and fall of American Empire is going to bring socialists the poverty they asked for.

almost every aspect of currently society is monitored or outright controlled by the government. To claim to desire that government get out of the lives of citizens has become absurd to the point of stupid.
* * * *

Is Moneywar back?

If it is a dirty thing to be socialist leaning, then consider me a dirty man. And, given the rightwing alternatives, proud of it.

#1 | POSTED BY MODER8 AT 2009-09-16 12:03 PM | REPLY | FLAG

state control of resources inherently bad. it deprives people of the ability to achieve outside of the state. it can lead to fascism. it is dirty and wrong. you can move to a country where it is embraced. please take michael moore with you.

Somoco: So you oppose government involvement or control of any activity where "resources" are involved. I assume you don't mean natural resources such as bauxite or pine trees. I assume by "resources" you include services such as healthcare. And education. And garbage clean-up. And military defense. And space exploration. And law enforcement. And road construction. And traffic safety. And Park management. And Social Security for the elderly. And just about everything else in our society. Because, let's face it, if you intellectually honest government either is involves or controls just about every aspect of your existence here in the good old non-socialist United States of America.

i agree, it is involved. the only thing the feds should be in charge of is providing defense, controlling the border, the post office, and reasonable regulation of interstate commerce. The fact that it is involved in so much more is tragic, and I think unconstitutional.

social security sucked, as does medicaid and medicare. socialist programs all.

I understand what you are saying. I am familiar with the political and economic philosophy behind that point of view.
I disagree with it though. And I believe the modern world has proven such a viewpoint to be naive and misguided. There is not a single "first world" country in the world in which the government does not play a major role in just about every aspect of the daily life of the society.
In fact, it is those areas of American life in which government is least involved (a la healthcare) where the greatest need for reform is currently needed. Assuming for the moment that you don't wish America to emulate the third world, your basic assumptions about daily life in this nation are built on the assumption and trust that the government will be involved in all those areas previously mentioned.

i respectfully disagree that it is naive and misguided to believe the way i do. i think that is the argument used time and time again to justify increasing federal involvement in our lives.

i don't really care what other "first world" nations do. they are certainly not role models, and do not share our history. i think the framers deserve more credit than they get. they understood these days would come, that the constitution was intended to prevent just the type of intrusion we see.

in terms of need of reform of health care, i disagree as well. if governmental regulation wasn't so severe in the area currently - from not allowing interstate competition of insurance plans, to requirements that skyrocket the costs of building health facilities - it would be much less expensive to begin with.

further, i'll take our current healthcare system, and my insurance policy, any day over what is in the other "first world" countries, or what is proposed (i.e. the first step toward single-payer).

education, local police and fire protection, and the other items you mention should be up to the states without any federal intervention or "assistance." states are the best to determine what is best for their constituencies. federal control over these just makes for a mess, and if there's a mistake, everyone suffers.

i don't mind paying taxes to the state to do these things and more - don't get me wrong. i would much rather pay more state taxes if these services would improve. but, i cut big checks to uncle sam each year, and i suspect they're gonna get a lot bigger. i also suspect my money is gonna be used for - by and large - bullshit.

... if governmental regulation wasn't so severe in the area currently - from not allowing interstate competition of insurance plans....

....education, local police and fire protection, and the other items you mention should be up to the states without any federal intervention or "assistance." states are the best to determine what is best for their constituencies. federal control over these just makes for a mess, and if there's a mistake, everyone suffers.

Whatever.

Insofar as healthcare is concerned, the big problem we currently have is that under our present system 30-45 million Americans are uninsured. This is unacceptable. And it is narrow minded and even offensive to blame these people (almost all of whom are poor) for not being wealthier or better able to obtain the coverage they need. It is equally narrow minded to assert (as some on the right have asserted) that these people don't have coverage because they don't want it, - implying they have access to coverage but simply choose not to pay for it.
In short, without government involvement, our capitalist insurance system has decreed that about 15% of all Americans will get screwed. As moral human beings, no American should accept that.

Some don't want coverage, a lot cannot afford it. Some in your number are between jobs and will have it soon.

it is a problem, but it's not up to the federal government to solve. There are many things that can be done short of what is being proposed, and have written extensively on them.

The government not only shouldn't take on that role, it's going to fuck it up badly, and it'll be more expensive than it needs to be. People tout how great Medicare and Medicaid are. The are rife with fraud, and they are "efficient" by totally screwing hospitals on reimbursements. That screw job comes back with higher premiums on insurance policies because jacking up prices on others is the only way for them to keep the doors open.

Laugh if you want, I've seen it. I'm not saying something shouldn't be done. It needs to be on a local level with an increasing of competition - and not govt. competition. How fair is it to compete with someone who can constantly change the rules on you during the course of that competition?

Guarantee, this is step one to single payer. The misery it will cause pales in comparison to those who are uninsured now without action.

So somoco what are people like Me to do when we have been turned flat out down by every YES Every Insurance Company we have applied to?? What do we do??? I'd dearly love health insurance. My health ain't the greatest. I'd hate to think what would happen if I needed something major done to Me. Funny how people get all up in arms about a basic human right such as health care but scream when someone even thinks about taking their guns away like they came out of their mothers vagina with a fucking gun strapped to their dicks. It's bullshit.

Larry

So somoco what are people like Me to do when we have been turned flat out down by every YES Every Insurance Company we have applied to?? What do we do???

Here's one suggestion, Larry. Assuming your health problems aren't genetic, you might try making the effort to educate yourself on nutrition and take up regular exercise. Then insurance wouldn't be so important to you.

At the bottom of it, you expect government to steal from somebody else to give you what you want. It's the popularity of that way of thinking which is destroying this nation.

Then insurance wouldn't be so important to you.


At the bottom of it, you expect government to steal from somebody else to give you what you want. It's the popularity of that way of thinking which is destroying this nation.

Posted by Ray at 2009-09-16 08:40 PM | Reply

Health care insurance should be very important to everyone. It only takes one instance one malady to fuck Your life all up. It's a crock of shit that this Country can't do what it is SUPPOSED to do and take care of it's Citizenry.

Larry

The problem with assholes in general, and rightwingers in particular is the belief that desire for a higher social consciousness and social justice is tantamount to expecting the "government to steal from somebody else to give you what you want." With an attitude and belief system like that, what is the point in even trying to engage in intelligent conversation.

Funny how people get all up in arms about a basic human right such as health care but scream when someone even thinks about taking their guns away like they came out of their mothers vagina with a fucking gun strapped to their dicks. It's bullshit.
Larry

#36 | POSTED BY LARRYMOHR AT 2009-09-16 08:26 PM | REPLY | FLAG

Move to Oregon or Massachusetts. Healthcare is neither a human right nor a constitutional right. Guns are a constitutional right.

This was the same thinking about Social Security. Good for all. Your money is invested and safe, and will be there for you. GUESS FUCKING WHAT, it's not there, I'm probably not gonna get shit. My kids for sure aren't gonna get shit, yet I've been dumping money down that and the Medicare rathole my whole working life.

That is not fair. So, I'm sorry you can't get insurance. Move to a state that has a program for you. Keep your hands out of my pocket. The government will do just about the same fucking "great job" with health as they've done with social security - only this time, we'll all be fucking broke in NO TIME AT ALL.

If Health Care isn't a fundamental right guaranteed by the Constitution then pray tell why women have nipples that give Milk. That is Your most basic health care system there is. Now tell Me I am all wet Somoco.

Larry

t's a crock of shit that this Country can't do what it is SUPPOSED to do and take care of it's Citizenry.
Larry

#38 | POSTED BY LARRYMOHR AT 2009-09-16 08:47 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

That's crap Larry. The government is not supposed to take care of it's Citizenry - and that's your problem The government is supposed to take care of very limited things per the Constitution, and other than that, it's supposed to stay the fuck out of the way.

Social justice demands equality of opportunity, not redistributing assets.

If Health Care isn't a fundamental right guaranteed by the Constitution then pray tell why women have nipples that give Milk. That is Your most basic health care system there is. Now tell Me I am all wet Somoco.
Larry

#41 | POSTED BY LARRYMOHR AT 2009-09-16 08:54 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

you're all wet.

That's crap Larry. The government is not supposed to take care of it's Citizenry - and that's your problem The government is supposed to take care of very limited things per the Constitution, and other than that, it's supposed to stay the fuck out of the way.


Social justice demands equality of opportunity, not redistributing assets.

Posted by somoco at 2009-09-16 08:56 PM | Reply


No that's just Your piss poor attitude. Too many in this Country declare they have theirs fuck everyone else. How can You say Your Government is strong when it neglects it's lesser citizenry?? Pray Tell Me THAT one??

Larry

Larry

Health care insurance should be very important to everyone

It used to be cheap until Medicare and Medicaid drove up prices. If you think government is going to make it all better, you're dreaming. From what I'm reading so far, the corporations will get even more control over your life.

It's not important to me and I'm sure many others who resent being forced to pay.

It's a crock of shit that this Country can't do what it is SUPPOSED to do and take care of it's Citizenry.

There is a lot of things government is supposed to do, like honor the Constitution. But they don't. Government takes care of itself first. They don't give a shit about the general public. You can't seem to absorb that fact.

Of course Health Care insurance isn't important to You Ray. If it's not yellow and shiney You don't want it. We know Your priorities Gold and more gold. same song and dance.

Larry

I call bullshit on Ray. Health costs have driven so dramatically within our largely unregulated capitalist society because insurance companies and HMOs have figured out ways of making obscene profits at the expense of our society as a whole. Medicaid and medicare have NOTHING to do with it.

No that's just Your piss poor attitude. Too many in this Country declare they have theirs fuck everyone else. How can You say Your Government is strong when it neglects it's lesser citizenry?? Pray Tell Me THAT one??
Larry

#44 | POSTED BY LARRYMOHR AT 2009-09-16 09:02 PM | REPLY | FLAG

Not when it neglects, when it allows citizens freedom of enterprise without undue regulation and interference.

"To each according to need" is a bullshit mantra. And, by the way, I give much time, money, and energy doing charitable works to help people who are in need. I teach my kids to do the same. when they phase out the charitable deduction, i might not give so much.

Again, I would pay a lot more in taxes to the state to develop programs to help people here. But, it is not the federal government's role to be involved in this shit. This is a more power grab than helping its citizenry. Watch, they're gonna tap into employer bank accounts, get IRS information, have fast track to liens, make decisions on people's lives, while lining the pockets of their friends. it's bullshit, and if you don't see it, i'm sorry - but I can't help you.

* have been driven up so dramatically

Anyone willing to allow 30-45 million be denied primary medical care due to political or economic philosophy is an immoral asshole. Especially when those people live in the largest most vibrant nation in the history of the world.

when they phase out the charitable deduction, i might not give so much.


Again, I would pay a lot more in taxes to the state to develop programs to help people here. But, it is not the federal government's role to be involved in this shit. This is a more power grab than helping its citizenry. Watch, they're gonna tap into employer bank accounts, get IRS information, have fast track to liens, make decisions on people's lives, while lining the pockets of their friends. it's bullshit, and if you don't see it, i'm sorry - but I can't help you.


Posted by somoco at 2009-09-16 09:09 PM | Reply

SAYS IT ALL

Anyone willing to allow 30-45 million be denied primary medical care due to political or economic philosophy is an immoral asshole. Especially when those people live in the largest most vibrant nation in the history of the world.

#50 | POSTED BY MODER8 AT 2009-09-16 09:11 PM | REPLY | FLAG

That's an easy argument to make. How's this:
"anyone willing to allow 30-45 million be unemployed due to political or economic philosophy is an immoral asshole." - sounds pretty good

"anyone willing to allow kids to go without education due to political or economic philosophy is an immoral asshole." - sounds pretty good


You see, there are things without end that people "need." These, however, are not the purview of the federal govt. How is federal health care even constitutional? Where is it written the feds can take over the system?

it's a false promise to think that the govt. can handle this.

SAYS IT ALL
#51 | POSTED BY LARRYMOHR AT 2009-09-16 09:12 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

It does. Govt. wants to control even charity. Don't want to give a tax break because they can't control where the money goes. It's sad and pathetic. I'll still give time and energy.

I call bullshit on Ray. Health costs have driven so dramatically within our largely unregulated capitalist society because insurance companies and HMOs have figured out ways of making obscene profits at the expense of our society as a whole. Medicaid and medicare have NOTHING to do with it.

Is the fact we are a fat and lazy nation part of the equation? How about tobacco, drugs and aclohol abuse? You think it is the Insurance and HMO's making profits as the problem?

What percentage of costs are spurned by tobacco and alcohol in the Medicare System? Around 30%. What would be the staggering costs putting another 20-30 million into the Gov system?

Why would you possibly, in a zillion years, put the word Need in quotation marks when it comes to healthcare. As if you thinking whining that they "need" healthcare is like claiming to "need" an ice cream cone. I don't know how to find common ground with someone like you who clearly genuinely believes that something as basic as healthcare is something a government should not be intimately involved with. It's like we're on different planets perceptually. Maybe BBob is correct, - maybe we should divide into two separate countries.

I call bullshit on Ray. Health costs have driven so dramatically within our largely unregulated capitalist society because insurance companies and HMOs have figured out ways of making obscene profits at the expense of our society as a whole. Medicaid and medicare have NOTHING to do with it.

#54 | Posted by crispee_oc at 2009-09-16 09:25 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

dEAR gOD HAVE MERCY UPON mY SOUL. sMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOCHIES. you're so right on FINALLY

Larry

You don't want it. We know Your priorities Gold and more gold. same song and dance.

oh fuck please!!!

larry pretends like insurance is important to him but only because his health isn't.

he treats himself like shit and expects us to believe that he cares about his insurance.

Larry is the perfect illustration of what is wrong on this issue. People who claim to value health insurance but don't even value their own health.

and they expect me to value it more so I can take care of him in the process.

I have sympathy for people who really want insurance and can't get it and we need reform for those people.

but unfortunately there are too many folks like Larry who have hitched a ride to this wagon hoping for their own bailout.

"Where is it written the feds can take over the system?"

One mandate at a time. Up to 1800 now. Which has driven costs up and never seems to be part of the debate.

sorry one handed typing eating watermelon

I call bullshit on Ray. Health costs have driven so dramatically within our largely unregulated capitalist society because insurance companies and HMOs have figured out ways of making obscene profits at the expense of our society as a whole. Medicaid and medicare have NOTHING to do with it.

#47 | Posted by moder

They couldn't make those profits without government support. Like all socialists, you have a mental block about the impact of government intervention on our economic problems. Government subsidies have the natural effect of driving up prices by cutting off doctor and patient from the real costs.

I'm telling you. This country is sinking into a very severe depression. Statism is at the root of it, or more fundamental, I live in a culture of thieves.

Where do You get off EBerly. I do care about My health. You don't think I care??? I'll tell You something I care a great deal. I also suffer from depression so food becomes My for lack of a better description Lionesses security blanket. I'd give anything to be like You all nice trim no problems and shit. I am sorry I don't measure up to Your standards Eberly. Maybe You're right maybe everyone is above Me. Fuck it.

Larry

fuck it I'm out for the night

Well you go on home hold and hug your pile of gold for me. Cuz that is obviously where your priorities lie.

#56...

Sorry to burst your bubble there Larry, but I forgot to include parenthesis around the paragraph I posted or include the poster. You need to credit Moder8. Mine are the next two paragraphs which you should just ignore.

I do care about My health. You don't think I care??? I'll tell You something I care a great deal.

we have an enormous obesity problem in this country Larry.

and everyone expect to be included in the gravy train.

www.nationmaster.com

Americans don't care about their health.......and yet we hear about how much they care about healthcare.

my ass.

Americans don't care about their health.......and yet we hear about how much they care about healthcare.


my ass.

Almost as funny as saying they care about education. Unless of course 70% graduating HS on time is considered caring about education.

#57

I find Eberly to be one of the biggest examples of what is wrong with people.

His posts reek of a smug, arrogant self righteous know it all attitude, with a twist of pompousness.

People like Eberly who sit in front of the monitor criticizing everyone, thinking they know every circumstance for every person and when anyone dares to challenge him, he resorts to insults in order to try and save face.

you have no clue what anyone's medical condition is that causes them to be unhealthy.

You have no clue if and how someone is trying their best to correct their condition...if at all possible.

I pray you never have a medical problem that people judge your character or worth as a human being over.

Lisa, I just flagged your post as newsworthy. Because I think it is.

You have no clue if and how someone is trying their best to correct their condition...if at all possible.

Larry has admitted to be an overeating lazy obese person.

That would be fine but he is crying for healthcare at the same time.


I pray you never have a medical problem that people judge your character or worth as a human being over.

Like I said, I have sympathy for those who really want health care and can't get it. If I ever have a medical problem it won't be because I didn't value my health.

If you gave a shit about the truth lisa you would know and accept that a shitload of Americans DON'T VALUE THEIR HEALTH.

This would be the equivilant of people who have 12 speeding tickets and 2 DUIs and cry about having access to auto insurance.

geezzzz..

"no access to auto insurance"

Lisa, I just flagged your post as newsworthy. Because I think it is.

WTF is newsworth about it?

Is there anything in it that you would consider "news"?

accusing me of shit that isn't true is newsworthy?

idiot.

Eberly probably just needs to get on an Acid-Alkaline diet of some sorts:>)

www.google.com


ps he liked one of my posts once...

"Eberly probably just needs to get on an Acid-Alkaline diet of some sorts:>)'

Doesn't change the truth of his message or his analogy.

Have you talked to him in person, Eberly???

Have you read the emails I have??

Are you aware that he is working on things???

You sit on your throne of judgement without knowing a damn thing!!!

All you see is a glimpse of what his life is about on here and then without knowing all the facts, you rip him apart.

Why don't you put up your pic Eberly so we call all see what a perfect specimen of a human being looks like!!!

And for your information, I have met Larry in person. He exaggerated his size here...he isn't nearly as big as you think he is.

But...go ahead Mr. Know it all....judge him!

But remember...you're going to be judge the same way!!!!

Except your judge will be by one who is well informed!!!!

Americans are dumb fat lazy idiots who feel they are entitled to any and everything.

YES, the insurance companies have capitalized on this. Employers have been compelled to provide beneifts and ins companies have capitalized on this and gotten fat off it (pun intended).

But all this outrage over insurance companies will simply get replaced with someone else to express "outrage" over.

there will be another villian because the stupid fat lazy american will allow themselves to become victims of someone or something. that is a 100% lock.

kick insurance companies to the curb if it makes you feel better.

but it is the equivilant of a train being applied to some drunk fat lazy slut. one guy gets off and another takes over.

LOL

Beer taste good tonight.

Statism is at the root of it, or more fundamental, I live in a culture of thieves.

Posted by Ray

no u don't!

ps where do u keep ur gold hoard? in a buried vault out in your backyard? My Piper Japrey vp 'friend' had $60k worth there for the next 911

Reading LIsa's post, I just had the funniest thought. What if after we die it turns out that our Supreme Judge is some ignorant uninformed douchebag a la Eberly?

Except your judge will be by one who is well informed!!!!

#74 | Posted by Lisa

his mirror?

And Crisp??

It doesn't make his reference to Larry being an example of his analogy either!!!!

Eberly was just being his normal hateful, meanspiritred self.

If one disagrees with him, he can't refute in any other way but to insult, trying to humiliate the one who DARED challenge him!

Why don't you put up your pic Eberly so we call all see what a perfect specimen of a human being looks like!!!


eberly<>

Beer taste good tonight.

#75 | Posted by eberly

bad, bad acid!

sorry the link is broken.

content.artofmanliness.com

it looks most like this.

Have you read the emails I have??


no. I'm not retarded enough to comminicate with loonies like yourself directly.

I have a family I'm responsible for.

nice tits ~ EBBY!

He exaggerated his size here...he isn't nearly as big as you think he is.

men do that lisa.

I didn't realize Eberly looked like a gay wuss? Am I the only one?

ps where do u keep ur gold hoard? in a buried vault out in your backyard? My Piper Japrey vp 'friend' had $60k worth there for the next 911
#76 | Posted by Bani

Only my son knows.

I won't even look.

Chances are it isn't him anyway.

Furthermore, I prefer to measure someone by their character, their compassion, kindness and helpfulness to others.

Inner beauty is far more important.

Eberly lacks severely!

#87 ff

#83

I pity your family.

And you have nothing of value to offer here.

I'm done wasting time on the likes of you.

I'm done wasting time on the likes of you.

#90 | Posted by Lisa
/


Aw, honey, are ya though with me, too?


~(:^(

My point in the harshness towards Larry is that as long as we don't care about our health, we will never progress at a nation towards anything.

The most compelling stats I have read here to indicate where we stand regarding out healthcare are the national rankings on things such as Cost, life expectancy, infant mortality, quality of healthcare etc....

those numbers are HORRIBLE.

I don't deny that our insurance industry isn't helping and is contributing to the problem.

But the elephant in the room is the attitude of Americans with regard to their health.

Any reform that doesn't address this is a disappointment IMO.

~{:^(

LOL!

Larry does need to address his personal problems with more veracity, for sure.

Aw, honey, are ya though with me, too?


if you criticize one of her virtual "friends" here she will cry like she always does.

Lisa has written me off several times. I didn't even address her!! she chooses to run to Larry's defense over legitimate criticism and attack me.

I wonder what the scale says when she steps on it?

I've seen pics of Lisa, Eb, and she's a nice looking lady. She's defensive about Larry, that's all. Larry need to start taking control of things in his life he CAN control, and leave things he CAN"T control the hell alone.

She's defensive about Larry, that's all

they have many peculiar similarities.

they both are liberal yet prolife
they both reveal a lot about their personal lives.
they both take criticism here very personal.

Lisa is poor at recognizing sarcasm and takes up for people over insignificant posts.

Larry is wacked. He doesn't understand shit about the constitution and claims he understands it like some sort of scholar.

A1:

First of all, thank you.

Secondly, it's not just Larry I'm defensive about.

I can't stand it when people think they know everything, shoot off their mouths and are so misinformed about what they are saying which ends up hurting others in the process....and enjoys doing it!

I went to high school with someone who was constantly being picked on. Half of what people were saying wasn't true. Those people didn't care, they kept saying anyway just to humiliate him.

He couldn't take it and killed himself.

Years later, I worked with his mother. The pain she still felt was enormous and she never understood why those kids were so relentlessly mean to him. He was always so quiet and kept to himself with the exception of a couple of friends he had.

I will never forget her face as she would talk to me about him.

So, I AM defensive when I see people attacking someone like Eberly did and using a scenario he knew nothing about to do it!

I would defend anyone in that circumstance.

It's ok Lisa shit happens and life goes on. I made a mistake in returning is all. My fault. Thanks for being a Friend to Me. I'll email You tomorrow. TTFN

Larry

So, I AM defensive when I see people attacking someone like Eberly did and using a scenario he knew nothing about to do it!

nothing my ass. Larry has admitted to being grossly overweight, eats terrible and doesn't exercise.

and he has been doing it for a long time.

Larry constantly accuses others of being morally reprehensible if they don't agree with him on anything. I don't see Lisa bitching to larry about this. apparently she doesn't care if terrible things like that are said to others.

so LISA can take her bullshit sympathy and shove it up her ass.

nobody is buying it.

Does anyone, leftwing or rightwing, thing Eberly could any bigger a douchebag?

Lisa...1st of all, you're welcome. I know you and Larry are fast friends, and I'd never want you to do anything to jeopardize that friendship. That being said, do you think there is anything anyone can do to motivate Larry to raise himself from the depths of despair he seems to be in?

Does anyone, leftwing or rightwing, think Moder8 could be any worse at using proper grammer?

grammar? lol

A1:

As I said, I have defended far more people than Larry so it's just not out of frienship. And I will never apologize for being compassionate and kind to others.

Larry is trying...hard!

BTW...there is a difference between arguing someones opinion and out and out attacking them.

Eberly can't refute a thing without insulting the one who has the nerve to challenge him, no matter how polite they are.

Eberly's true colors are not attractive!

Now, I'm going to go try and rid myself of this negativity and have fun on other threads.

Care to join me? : )

moder8shit, if you want to be a socialist fine with me.

I accept responsibility for my life. I take care of myself and my family. I pay all my bills and especially my insurance premiums knowing full well that covers the costs of folks Like Larry who are uninsured. Fine, I will pay for that also.

But after doing all of that I am accused by assholes like you and larry of being part of the problem.

you folks should say "thank you" instead of attacking people like me who are perhaps the ONLY people who are keeping this country funded.

grammar? lol


yeah...not spelling.

But all this outrage over insurance companies will simply get replaced with someone else to express "outrage" over.

there will be another villian because the stupid fat lazy american will allow themselves to become victims of someone or something. that is a 100% lock.

kick insurance companies to the curb if it makes you feel better.

but it is the equivilant of a train being applied to some drunk fat lazy slut. one guy gets off and another takes over.

This is the sentiment that had to be overcome by our founding fathers when trying to convince the populace to take up arms in rebellion againt England.

Now, I'm going to go try and rid myself of this negativity and have fun on other threads.


sure, the soft spoken posters here like 101, Tadowe, Jackass, Celisary etc are waiting for you.

This is the sentiment that had to be overcome by our founding fathers when trying to convince the populace to take up arms in rebellion againt England.

Fair point, but Americans weren't stupid, fat and lazy and felt entitled to every entitlement program known to man at that time.

So it was easier respect all sides of the issue then.

Hey Larry, I really hope you don't take anything which anybody says on a faceless blog like this to heart. People use blogs to vent. People spew hatred here within the anonymous confines of cyberspace that they would never display in any face to face forum. If someone annoys you or offends you, fuck 'em. Water off a ducks back. And if it ever does hit too close to home, take a break from the site. There will always be wolves who will attack at the whiff of blood. Fuck 'em.

i have to go.


I have some kittens to run over with my lawnmower.

LOL

Ahhh, the commies are out of the closet and finally willing to admit Obama is one of them.

AHAHAHA LOL LOL MAYBE FOR THEIR NEXT TRICK LIBERALS WILL DISCOVER ACORN, NAH THEIR WAY TOO STUPID...


#115

Hey, could ya turn off the caps in your posts.

It's waaay too early in the morning for yelling like that!

Big surprise that Masturb8 is a socialist. Most people that can't cut it in the private sector are.

Where is the article for this thread????

Or is this thread built solely on the musings of a pitiful chat room douchebag?

Or is this thread built solely on the musings of a pitiful chat room douchebag?


#118 | Posted by 8roper

DING DING DING!!!!!!


And Crisp??


It doesn't make his reference to Larry being an example of his analogy either!!!!
#79 | Posted by Lisa at 2009-09-16 10:11 PM

Wasn't getting between the back and forth with you Larry and Eb etc. I was pointing out Eb's analogy, regarding someone with 2 DUI's complaining about not being able to get insurance. His other message about us being a fat and lazy nation is spot on. I wasn't inlcuding any part of the post that was a personal attack on Larry. I have plenty of bones to pick with Larry. Hell he almost shit his pants when he thought he agreed with me. Problem was he was agreeing with Moder8. lol

I think socialism in pure form would be as devastating as any other economic or political philosophy applied in pure form. Total government control is as bad as total "free market" control. Both lead to abuse and disregard for the good of humanity since neither has inherent self-regulating mechanisms. Which is why reality invariably swings between right and left, between conservatism and liberalism. And why, in dealing with reality, what works is a combination of approaches, essentially a compromise.

And why, when dealing with reality, diplomats and politicians are much better than bureaucrats and manager types, be they business or government.

All of which in no way detracts from the role of either government or the market in the life of a properous country. The market is needed to enable an economy to function properly and effectively. Government is needed to supply the human angle. The required regulation. Long term planning. Efforts which are either beyond the grasp of a market or which the market doesn't see fit to handle. Like space exploration. Like national defense. Like infrastructure. Like the welfare of the citizens.

The one thing "ivory towers", think-tanks and the blogsphere have in common is the inability to see beyond the particular philosophy they espouse. And why it is so amusing to hear/read their vehement and continual cries that only they have the truth.

I personally don't believe any political theory was ever meant to govern nations as large as those of today.

It's like we're on different planets perceptually. Maybe BBob is correct, - maybe we should divide into two separate countries.

#55 | POSTED BY MODER8 AT 2009-09-16 09:27 PM | REPLY | FLAG

Fine, just don't ask my country to pay for your country's welfare state. You'll be 3rd world in, oh, about 5 years.

Actually, within five years or so we would be like Germany, only stronger and more influential. And within five years or so you would be like, well, Mississippi (religious, pregnant, undereducated, segregated and so forth).

I wonder what the scale says when she steps on it?

#96 | POSTED BY EBERLY AT 2009-09-16 10:33 PM | REPLY | FLAG

GET OFF!!! GET OFF!!!

Fine, just don't ask my country to pay for your country's welfare state. You'll be 3rd world in, oh, about 5 years.

#123 | Posted by somoco at 2009-09-17 01:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

Don't worry about us. You'll have your own welfare queens to worry about. We'll educate out children through Grad school if they want it and can handle the education. I soppose your country will try the voucher programs--but all the teachers will be well paid in our country---your kids will be educated by:

cm1.theinsider.com

and your future generations will look like this:

i23.tinypic.com

and their jobs will be for non union private companies that paint road signs

www.redneck.sc

but hey--no libs--no gun regulations--no welfare--no gay rights--no abortion rights--no univeral health care--no welfare--no affirmative action--low low taxes--no unions--no lib Presidents--no libs in congress--no libs on the Supreme Court--no Social Security--no FICA--no unemployment insurance---in short you would have the country you've always wanted, the country you've been whining about having your whole life--the America that would be so much better than the America that now exists---why would you want to stick around a country and people you have no respect for when you can have the country of your dreams.

Here's how you get started--join the millions upon millions that think just like you.

www.texasnationalist.com

www.sonofthesouth.net

images.google.com

You socialists should take a deep breath and take a look at America's balance sheet. There is no way Americans can carry sums like this without a major default.

danielamerman.com

How fucking stupid can you be. Socialism fails every time. It's an ideology of mass larceny. Massive debt couldn't mask it forever.

"Do you know how to Turn Inflation Into Wealth? To position yourself so that inflation will redistribute real wealth to you, and the higher the rate of inflation the more your after-inflation net worth grows? Do you know how to achieve these gains on a long-term and tax-advantaged basis? Do you know how to potentially triple your after-tax and after-inflation returns through Reversing The Inflation Tax? So that instead of paying real taxes on illusionary income, you are paying illusionary taxes on real increases in net worth? These are among the many topics covered in the free "Turning Inflation Into Wealth" Mini-Course. Starting simple, this course delivers a series of 10-15 minute readings, with each reading building on the knowledge and information contained in previous readings. More information on the course is available at DanielAmerman.com or InflationIntoWealth.com ."

"Starting simple, this course delivers a series of 10-15 minute readings, with each reading building on the knowledge and information contained in previous readings. "

You gotta love Ray's sources. Everyone of them an axe-grinding, snake oil salesman.

"Do you know how to Turn Inflation Into Wealth?

LOL! Ask the US government, they are the best at it.

No doubt, Money and Nulli (note the rhyme) failed accounting 101. Then you two bitch because I'm making money off of socialism. It's a symptom of the socialist syndrome.

Ray,

www.atimes.com

Have a good read.

Money

It's a long tedious article, so I skimmed over it to get a sense of his bias.

He says:
"Volcker won a Pyrrhic victory against inflation by letting financial blood run all over the country and most of the world. It was a toss-up whether the cure was worse than the disease. Will Bernanke do the same as soon as recovery is at hand? "

That was no Pyrrhic Victory. There is only one cure for inflation: deflation. In fact there is no way to avoid the consequences of inflation. The fact that we've had an inflationary economy doesn't change that fact. Deflation devalues a nation's currency until it's worthless. That's what this country is on the edge of.

In his last paragraph, he says the market failed, a favorite cliche among statists. His logic is backwards. It is market interventionism that failed, not the market. To blame the market is like blaming bankruptcy on your balance sheet.

"It is market interventionism that failed, not the market."

That's making an a-priori assumption that all the market does is reflect activity. And not true because the market _is_ the activity. It does not exist outside of intervention, of one type or another. The closest to such a situation would be a truly "free" market. Which can not exist in the real world of human endeavour.

And adverse actions can cause adverse activity, to the point where that activity (and the market) fails.

#134 | Posted by AILtd

Another graduate of the Money, Nulli, Danni school of socialist economics. Judging by the garbled logic, he must have studied under Moneywar.

#135 | Posted by Ray

Because I don't believe your story that it is all a battle between god (aka the "free" market) and the devil (government).

Do you understand _anything_ beyond what your inane Austrian school (your version) says? Do you understand that economics is a human activity, one of many? That is has no standing or existence outside of all human activity? That human activity is both good and bad and that there is no "impartial" theory which can judge it? That if humans had been content with relinquishing control of their destiny to any "force of nature" we would still be living in trees? That while you may believe that living in trees is the height of what humans should achieve, only fringe wackos agree with you?

#136 | Posted by AILtd

Frankly, I don't give a shit what you believe or don't believe.

Like or not, we are all limited by the forces of nature. Nature doesn't fail. It is human attempts to defy the forces of nature that fail. To say the market failed, is the same as saying nature failed.

I should have to explain this; it's grade school stuff.

"To say the market failed, is the same as saying nature failed."

That's why you're full of shit. Markets are created by societies, not nature, dumbass.

"Nature doesn't fail. It is human attempts to defy the forces of nature that fail." - Ray

It has caused all of the other planets in the solar system to be barren. That is your version of "not failed"?

It brings the earth drough, famine, hurricanes, floods, volcanic eruptions, etc. And we should just accept them, since, per you, we are doomed to failure. What crap. Stay in your tree.


"To say the market failed, is the same as saying nature failed."

Bullshit. Or does the "market" exist outside of human activity? Because nature certainly does.

"Frankly, I don't give a shit what you believe or don't believe." - Ray

And yet, every time I post something which doesn't agree with your religion, you call me an idiot or its equivalent. Kinda contradictory.

That's why you're full of shit. Markets are created by societies, not nature, dumbass.

#138 | Posted by nullifidian

Unbelievable! Whatever the composition of the market, human activity still can't defy the laws of nature.

You can't consume more than you produce. Debt cannot go to infinity. Yet, that is exactly what mainstream economists are trying to do.

"You can't consume more than you produce."

Paris Hilton does a pretty good job.

And yet, every time I post something which doesn't agree with your religion, you call me an idiot or its equivalent. Kinda contradictory.

As a statement of fact, I said your language and logic is garbled. Take that anyway you want.

Here's an example:"Or does the "market" exist outside of human activity? Because nature certainly does."

What are you trying to say? There is a market god? And a nature god? Then you have the gall to call me religious. I couldn't imagine people think this badly if I didn't see it.

#143 | Posted by Ray

You stated that "To say the market failed, is the same as saying nature failed." Don't you ever read _anything_ you write? Or is it more of your belief that, because you have written it, it should stand forever etched in stone, with no review necessary?

What I am saying is that the market and nature can not be viewed through the same prism. They don't exist in the same way. That the market is tied exclusively to human activity and merely reflects it. That can not be said about nature. Why is that beyond your comprehension?

"You can't consume more than you produce."

Unless you buy it from someone else.


"Debt cannot go to infinity."

If you have no intention of paying it off, why not?

That the market is tied exclusively to human activity and merely reflects it.

Then it is human activity that failed. That's what I've been saying from the beginning. It failed because government intervention tried to void economic (natural) law through over consumption and debt.

"You can't consume more than you produce."
Unless you buy it from someone else.

If you consume more than you produce, then you have nothing to trade with, unless you resort to debt. Then you run into the limits of debt, which is where we are now.

"Debt cannot go to infinity."
If you have no intention of paying it off, why not?

Historically, governments never pay off their debts. It wouldn't have gone this far, unless they had no intentions of paying. See my link at #127.

School is out for the day.

"If you consume more than you produce, then you have nothing to trade with, unless you resort to debt."

The species, as a whole, cannot consume more than it produces. That doesn't stop nation states, individuals, social classes, etc., from consuming more than they produce.

But yeah, in general, you can't consume more than you produce. That's physics, not an insight of the Von Miserly Institute.

That doesn't stop nation states, individuals, social classes, etc., from consuming more than they produce.

I explained that in full in #146. Why don't you read the whole post before you cherry pick.

But yeah, in general, you can't consume more than you produce. That's physics, not an insight of the Von Miserly Institute.

It's obvious when stated that way. But your socialist ideology ignores it.

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