Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs

No government bureaucrat is planning on killing Granny. "Death Panels" are not going to be formed to weed out who lives and who dies. Republicans are not going to be denied Health insurance. Illegal immigrants are not suddenly going to be legally afforded any new considerations for healthcare beyond those minimums which already exist. On demand bortions are not going to be covered by fiat of legislation. America (which just squandered trillions of dollars on a pointless elective war in Iraq) will not be bankrupted. And so forth. And so forth.

What will happen is that 30-45 million uninsured Americans who currently do not receive basic medical care will now be afforded it.
What will happen is that insurance companies will now have to be far more efficient to remain competitive.

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I realize "The Big Lie" worked for Lenin and Hitler and Mao. But please. Let's not add Republicans leaders and pundits to the list of practitioners.

People would rather the Government spend money on blowing people up than for the Government to spend money on growing people up. They thrive on killing they don't thrive on helping their fellow man. If this Country is a Country founded upon the very ideal of Government for the people by the people and a Government of the people aren't they just shitting upon themselves when they deny such basic human rights as health care?? I believe so.
Larry

AND THEY WILL LIE TO PREVENT THE POPULACE FROM OBTAINING HEALTH INSURANCE THAT WOULD COME FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT !!!!!!!!!!!!

Doesn't it sicken you how dishonest and shameless the American rightwing has become? It sure sickens me.

Yes Moder8 it does sicken Me. Especially coming from the Right Wing with their holier than thou moral majority religious right mantra. It's like they are all a bunch of complete frauds.

Larry

I feel government is completely incompetent. I don't trust them. Dems or pubs. I won't lie about it either.

Wurster: All bullshit aside, isn't it clear that both the degree and amount of lies coming from the Rightwing of American politics far outweighs anything coming from the Left? I know I'm partisan and all that, but it is pretty frickin obvious to me. I'm astounded that there has not been more outrage expressed by the middle of the road mainstream media.

Illegal immigrants are not suddenly going to be legally afforded any new considerations for healthcare beyond those minimums which already exist.

According to a judge familiar with constitutional law you cannot deny Illegal immigrants anything that is given to the general population. It doesn't matter how the bill is written. It is in the constitution and Obama being a constitutional lawyer knows this. So who's lying?

A new poll shows that 58% of Americans don't want abortions to be paid for as part of any new public insurance plan.

Yet four of the five health care plans floating around Congress include language that would allow abortions to be paid for with public money. The only one that doesn't the Republican plan in the Senate probably won't go anywhere.



Joy Yearout, communications director for the Susan B. Anthony list, thinks that the plans' inclusion of abortion is a direct result of Obama's previously stated desire to include abortion in any public health care legislation despite more recent claims to the contrary.

"The President promised Planned Parenthood last year that abortion would be included in any health care legislation he proposed," said Yearout. "It's just a shell game."

In the poll, fifty-eight percent of Americans disagreed with the statement, "If the government is going to make a public health plan available for all Americans it has an obligation to provide abortion services under that plan." Fifty-five percent of Americans agreed with the statement, "Whatever my opinion on the issue, I think it would be wrong for the government to pay for abortions."

"Today's polling data offers the latest compelling reason for Congress to reject the President's health care proposal without authentic language to exclude abortion funding," said Yearout.

In previous statements, Planned Parenthood has claimed that the public health insurance plan would be funded by an exchange, which is "funded and paid for by private individual premiums, in the same way a private insurance plan is."

townhall.com

"PolitiFact claims that Joe Wilson was wrong, and Obama is telling the truth about illegal immigrants. But PolitiFact ignores the central argument made by Wilson's camp: that the House bill does not require that the legal status of people who receive "affordability credits" be verified. (Democrats in committee voted down an amendment to require verification.) Here's the entirety of PolitiFact's discussion of this issue, in a fairly long piece about Wilson vs. Obama: "The bill specifically says that people in the United States illegally are not eligible for tax credits, on page 132, section 242." So what? The law "says" that people aren't supposed to be here illegally in the first place, after all.

PolitiFact also reports, "Right now, most states have laws on the books that require hospitals to treat severely ill people who arrive at the hospital, regardless of immigration status, and we didn't see anything that would change those laws, either." I'm not sure what they're talking about, but federal law has included that provision for more than two decades."

That is such bullshit. So a partisan rightwing judge is interpreting a bill that has yet to even be voted. President Obama has been very clear and straightforward as to the fact that illegal immigrants will be afforded no new rights beyond the bare minimums currently afforded them. Without a whit of evidence, rightwingers are saying that is untrue. It is such obvious dishonesty that Goebbels would be proud.

They can't argue the facts intelligently because it's all about defeating Obama at any cost. Screw the well being of fellow Americans. End of life consultations, which everyone can agree with, are now "death panels". I've never seen Republicans lie so much about an issue since the invasion of Iraq.

What the hell is wrong with these people? $3 trillion for war is good, $1 trillion for health care of 50 million is bad.

The republican party is based on greed. to sell their crooked agenda they have to lie. What we have to do is punish them so they don't lie again.

Read the constitution pal. You can't have healthcare that doesn't help illegal aliens.

Obama is lying and he knows it unless he's also an incompetent Constitutional Lawyer.

Evidently the Republican that yelled "Liar" was correct.

I'd rather give illegals healthcare over conservatives.

Evidently the Republican that yelled "Liar" was correct.

#15 | Posted by mysterytoy

evidently you are still an idiot.

I'd rather give illegals healthcare over conservatives.

Probably will after amnesty.

Tell Van Jones I have a feeling there's an opening at ACORN.

Mysterytoy: Please for one moment just be completely honest. Do you feel it is the intention of President Obama to set up "death panels", or to afford intensive ongoing health insurance to illegals? And yet it is all being presented as "fact" to the ignorant by the rightwing of American politics. Furthermore, do you think that President Obama is willfully lying when he states that his goal in enacting this legislation is to provide decent healthcare to the 30-45 million Americans who currently don't have any?

When lefties protest it is against wars of choice.

When righties protest it is against healthcare for all.

#6 | POSTED BY MODER8


Partisan americans are being played and against each other. It could be possible that a 'republican' Official is lying to play your dislike and hatred toward the 'right wing' population of our nation. To make you mad. Keep us all mad at each other while the real business is being done.

Divide and conquer as they say.

Do you feel it is the intention of President Obama to set up "death panels"

No, I don't think Obama would set up "death panels". However, SOMEONE is , at some point, going to be in charge of deciding what treatments you recieve, and the price of those treatment will have to be a part of that decision. That being said, it may be up to a group of people to look at all the facts, and then make the decision. A group of people can be catagorized as a "panel". Like it or not, that WILL be a part of the system, as it's ALREADY DONE! What makes you think it will go away?

Hey MISERYTOY, what section of the US Constitution provides rights to non-citizens?


Hey MISERYTOY, what section of the US Constitution provides rights to non-citizens?

Posted by AndyB62 at 2009-09-11 08:33 PM | Reply

14th Amendment

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

SOMEONE is , at some point, going to be in charge of deciding what treatments you recieve

#23 | Posted by American1st

Somebody already decides what treatments most receive. At present, unless you're so wealthy that you can purchase whatever treatment you wish, the insurance companies make that choice. The insurance companies often make the choice that's best for their profit margin, regardless of what is best for the patient. Most people will not receive the best possible treatment as long as corporate profits are a major factor.

"That is such bullshit. So a partisan rightwing judge is interpreting a bill that has yet to even be voted. President Obama has been very clear and straightforward as to the fact that illegal immigrants will be afforded no new rights beyond the bare minimums currently afforded them. Without a whit of evidence, rightwingers are saying that is untrue."

Maybe one can explain the Senates latest bill and dismiss this as evidence Obama lied and you were all fools to believe he didn't:


patriotroom.com

Among three House committees to pass bills for health reform, only one expressly bans federal funding for proving health coverage to illegal immigrants.
"The Congressional Research Service has indicated that indeed the bills that are before Congress would include illegal aliens," Wilson said. "And I think this is wrong."

Indeed, the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service study found that the House health care bill does not restrict illegal immigrants from receiving health care coverage.

House Republican Minority Leader John Boehner amplified the complaint that without proof of citizenship, illegal immigrants could be insured.

"There were two opportunities for House Democrats to make clear that illegal immigrants wouldn't be covered by putting in requirements to show citizenships," he said. "Both of those amendments were, in fact, rejected."

In the Senate, Democrats in the so called "Gang of Six," a group of bipartisan senators on the Senate Finance Committee which is the last panel yet to release its bill, began moving quickly to close the loophole that Wilson helped bring greater attention to.

Let's face it folks, the Left is only making noise over all the deceit they are perpetuating because they KNOW that Obama is trying to pull a fast one, whether NOW by hiding, deceiving and downright telling untruths about the REAL plan OR is going to put in so many triggers that it will all happen a bit later.

He hopes to rig the next election with ACORN and Van Jones types doing the census and then will enact laws to abolish term limits and insert his Czardom for good.

Unless he is stopped soon it may be too late.

American,

"However, SOMEONE is , at some point, going to be in charge of deciding what treatments you recieve"

The question is, would you rather those people be insurance adjusters whose primary concern is the bottom line, or another agency that has guidelines not so dominated by profit?

Currently, the system is all about profit and look at where that's gotten us?

LARY and MISERY, the 14th amendment prohibits denying equal protection of the law. So, you still haven't stated how this gives health-care to illegal imigrants.

"Let's face it folks, the Left is only making noise over all the deceit they are perpetuating because they KNOW that Obama is trying to pull a fast one, whether NOW by hiding, deceiving and downright telling untruths about the REAL plan OR is going to put in so many triggers that it will all happen a bit later."

I'd love for that to be true, but I don't see it.


LARY and MISERY, the 14th amendment prohibits denying equal protection of the law. So, you still haven't stated how this gives health-care to illegal imigrants.

Posted by AndyB62 at 2009-09-11 09:03 PM | Reply


If they make this Health Care reform bill into law and they deny an illegal coverage they have done shat upon the equal protection of the illegal immigrant. Yes they are illegal but they fall upon our jurisdictions.

Larry

If they make this Health Care reform bill into law and they deny an illegal coverage they have done shat upon the equal protection of the illegal immigrant. Yes they are illegal but they fall upon our jurisdictions.

#32 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2009-09-11 09:13 PM


Maybe you better check with Baucus and let him know, before they approve of the measure banning those here illegally. While you are at it, ask him if he thinks this provision proves Obama lied.

Throughout the Constitution our rights are continually shown to be for citizens of the country, even when the word citizen is not specifically mention. The Preamble calling the establishment of the Constitution by, "We the people, " clearly indicates that each of the rights and privileges as recorded by the Framers are for the citizenry of this country.

This does not mean that those who immigrate to The United States are treated as second class people or that the laws that protect our citizens whether civil or criminal do not afford the same protections and freedoms to all whether citizen or immigrant.

But the rights that we have to vote, to speak freely, to worship as we will, to keep and bear arms, protection from illegal search and seizure, all are rights given by authority of the people for the people, the citizens of the land.It then is also established that any of these rights that are afforded to non-citizens is also given by the authority of the people of The United States.

Anyone who enters in or resides in this country has the privilege given by the authority of the people to share in our freedoms and rights. Citizenship though is not a right that is given nor the privileges of citizenship to any immigrant whether legal or illegal until they have been established by the laws of naturalization as Americans.

The rights afforded non-citizens may very well be the way the courts have interpeted the constitution and not necessarily in the wording of the constitution.

You are dead wrong Mysterytoy. They pertain to anyone who falls under it's jurisdiction. Sorry but do try again.

Larry

14th Amendment


Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


You are dead wrong Mysterytoy. They pertain to anyone who falls under it's jurisdiction. Sorry but do try again.


Larry

Really Larry. Notice where it says without "due process of law". Meaning they have to legally go through process to claim the same citizens rights.

Really Larry. Notice where it says without "due process of law". Meaning they have to legally go through process to claim the same citizens rights.

Posted by crispee_oc at 2009-09-11 09:27 PM | Reply


Nope sorry please do try again. It applies to anyone that falls under it's jurisdiction no matter if they seek citizenship or not. Why do You think foreigners who come to this Country get trials and what not even though they aren't going to ever apply to become US Citizens. I know that You don't like that but thems the facts.

Larry

"nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws..."

The protections of the law like every citizen, doesn't mean they claim the same privileges afforded to citizens.

That au pair from england is a perfect example She was charged with murder of the shaken baby of epan. She was entitled to a trial just the same as if She were an American Citizen. I know that You don't want illegals to benefits I don't blame You but the US Constitution applies to all who find themselves within it's jurisdictions.

Larry

The protections of the law like every citizen, doesn't mean they claim the same privileges afforded to citizens.


#40 | Posted by crispee_oc at 2009-09-11 09:29 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Yes they do please do try again crispee

L8r

Larry, I thought I was agreeing with you.

Most people will not receive the best possible treatment as long as corporate profits are a major factor.

#26 | Posted by Whatsleft

So, what make you think that would change with gov. health care? Are they going to spen hundreds of thousands of dollars on someone who has, at best, 5/10 years left to live? I think it will be worse than todays "death panels". Human nature is to get as much as you can, while you can. The new system will be more corrupt.(Think "Good 'ol boy" syndrome) The people who make those decisions will live long lives...the poor...not so long....

" Why do You think foreigners who come to this Country get trials and what not even though they aren't going to ever apply to become US Citizens."

Because they have the same EQUAL PROTECTION UNDER THE LAW. Remember the part where it says WITHOUT DUE PROCESS? That doesn't give them the same privileges. Under your theory, they should all be allowed to vote, own property, work without ever having to go through the LEGAL PROCESS.

The new system will be more corrupt.(Think "Good 'ol boy" syndrome) The people who make those decisions will live long lives...the poor...not so long....

#45 | Posted by American1st

I'll try to get a govt job then.


Democrats would get the best care and if I saw you were a republican you would be better off living in Africa.


That au pair from england is a perfect example She was charged with murder of the shaken baby of epan. She was entitled to a trial just the same as if She were an American Citizen. I know that You don't want illegals to benefits I don't blame You but the US Constitution applies to all who find themselves within it's jurisdictions.


Larry

You are a fool Larry. Bordering on Buffalo Bob territory. That analogy is as worthless as your definition of the Amendment.

You are a fool Larry. Bordering on Buffalo Bob territory. That analogy is as worthless as your definition of the Amendment.

Posted by crispee_oc at 2009-09-11 09:37 PM | Reply


No I am not the fool. It is You who is the ignorant fuck.

Larry

No I am not the fool. It is You who is the ignorant fuck.


Larry

Then why can't everyone over 18 vote Larry? Why can't anyone own property? Are they not being afforded their "right" according to your skewed defintition. Why do they have to go through the LEGAL PROCESS to become citizens? According to you they are in the States jurisdiction. What gives Einstein?

No I am not the fool. It is You who is the ignorant fuck.

#49 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2009-09-11 09:38 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose) Foolish Ignorant Fuck But I Like Him Anyways


No I am not the fool. It is You who is the ignorant fuck.


#49 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2009-09-11 09:38 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose) Foolish Ignorant Fuck But I Like Him Anyways

He is a stubborn fuck sometimes.

Larry's insistence on interpreting the constitution in a way that is illogical is exactly what this thread is about. Lies of the right. Just like the lies about Death Panels were fabricated by misinterpreting what was actually written. Unfortunately most of the screaming repubs have comprehension skills that are even lower than Larry's.

Let me get this straight....Larry's not a fool, Crispee's not a fool.

Well someone has to be a fool!!

Wait...is it me??

I'm so confused!!!

Lies of the right....
#53 | Posted by AndyB62 at 2009-09-11 10:07 PM

So if Obama didn't lie about illegals, why did the repubs in the House write two seperate provisions which were voted down by the majority? Oh I know because the bill already addressed that. Of course it also omits any verification. Now that the Senate has changed their bill to VERIFY, doesn't that make you look kind of foolish calling repubs liars, when the leader of your party spewed at least a few himself?

Let me get this straight....Larry's not a fool, Crispee's not a fool.


Larry is a stubborn fool. I am just your everyday average type fool.

Unfortunately most of the screaming repubs have comprehension skills that are even lower than Larry's.

#53 | Posted by AndyB62

I think you meant to say "lower than a Democrat"

Because the statist lies so much.

It is really amazing when the Alinsky protocol is used against the leftist.

Is it the wrong direction--I guess it depends on the direction.

But Obama and the dems are all about their hallucinagenic utopic power and will do anything to get it.

Say goodbye to your liberty and say hello to tyranny.

Not that the repubs are much different.

"Because the statist lies so much."

There's Murphy using her favorite new word, while not having a clue as to what it means.

Mark Levin taught her that word, and the meaning of it.

It goes like this: "The statist" is anyone we disagree with and "the statist" believes [insert bad thing here].

It is the political philosophy of a simpleton.

But Obama and the dems are all about their hallucinagenic utopic power and will do anything to get it.

Are they now? Please go on....

Boo hooo for Null and Boyd..

Over to the music thread for whinding down....


I realize "The Big Lie" worked for Lenin and Hitler and Mao. But please. Let's not add Republicans leaders and pundits to the list of practitioners.
.......#1 | Posted by moder8

.....no one has to add them.....they are already there by their own volition.......

.......lies are their medium, because they don't want to handle the truth......

......they have become bagmen and water-carriers for the mega rich individuals and corporations, who do not care how miserable life becomes for the citizens of this country as long as they can keep making their conscience-free profits........


Evidently the Republican that yelled "Liar" was correct.


#15 | Posted by mysterytoy


evidently you are still an idiot.

#17 | Posted by donnerboy at 2009


but yet NOONE can tell me why dems wont end the whole debate and vote yes on an citizenship check amendment...
go figure


LARY and MISERY, the 14th amendment prohibits denying equal protection of the law. So, you still haven't stated how this gives health-care to illegal imigrants.

#30 | Posted by AndyB62 at 2009-


well it wasnt that long ago that many of us thought that reading miranda rights to enemies of the country would happen either but then a liar named obama starting reading telepromters and everything changed.

but NOT FOR LONG

Why does moder8 always start threads that ask why anyone except those who agree with him has a moral flaw? Why...why....why.....

but yet NOONE can tell me why dems wont end the whole debate and vote yes on an citizenship check amendment...
go figure

#64 | Posted by afkabl2

Probably because they are being advised that it would cause it to be ruled unconstitutional.

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