Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs

I was in Lima, Peru, waiting for the head of the health mission I was volunteering with to arrive from the US in a couple of days. My then girlfriend and I were having breakfast and watching El Hombre Incredible (Incredible Hulk) on TV. The show was pre-empted by a news broadcast about some building that was on fire. My Spanish was pretty miserable so most of what was being said was lost to me. What I thought was odd was that the people shown running around did not look like Peruanos.

Liberal Blog Advertising Network

Menu

Subscriptions

Author Info

Hagbard_Celine

MORE STORIES

Special Features

Comments

Admin's note: Participants in the discussion of this weblog entry should note the site's moderation policy.

Finally I got an aunt on the phone who told me that everyone I knew was okay but that my cousin who works at American Express (part of the company's emergency response team) had been brought to the hospital for smoke inhalation. Other cousins walked with the thousands who had to cross bridges on foot back to Long Island.

h.c. - was she your wife or your girlfriend?

...not that it matters...

my husband had a rare day off and we were enjoying coffee and newspapers at the dining table, while simulateously watching the news - when it all happened - and we realized it was intentional, we wanted to drive to town to retrieve our children from school.

everyone went a little nutz that day; the gas stations in the vicinity were definitely price gouging - thankfully, we had full tanks.

we brought our loved ones a little closer to our hearts that day - which seemed nigh on impossible given that our hearts were already full with love for them.

that is the day that made me a true fighter.

I was in Philadelphia working. I remember thinking if we didn't support Israel so damn much this would have never happened.

People say that day changed everything and it did.

What is interesting is that there are so many different opinions about how things changed and what we needed to do about it.

I'll admit that I was not as conscious of US and global politics before (though I thought I was) and in no small way the blogger you read here was born that day. Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm a better person than I was before because of September 11, 2001.

Thanks for reading.

"h.c. - was she your wife or your girlfriend?"

at the time, my girlfriend. I proposed shortly after.

I was at a National Meeting in Boca Raton of all places(Anthrax there the next week) and we saw it all on our break from the main session. I finally got through to home and all I could think about was getting back to them. I rented the LAST car in the area and drove home with a couple of other guys who continued on in my rental to New Orleans.

The rest of the company had to take busses home a day or two later. Our HQ was in NY near the city.

Scary time for us all but now msot have faded back to the 9/10 mentality. A shame.

Scary time for us all but now msot have faded back to the 9/10 mentality. A shame.

#6 | Posted by The_Chapel

That means we live life unlike the repub cowards that are afraid of Islam.

"Scary time for us all but now msot have faded back to the 9/10 mentality. A shame."

I'm not sure I get your point.

#8 - we've gone back to sop and have forgotten how united we were for a short time after - i'm sure that's what chapel meant. surely you will agree on that?

psssssssst...i'm glad you married her!

"we've gone back to sop and have forgotten how united we were for a short time after - i'm sure that's what chapel meant. surely you will agree on that?"

I think a lot of that has to do with the way many feel that our unity was taken advantage of.

"psssssssst...i'm glad you married her!"

So is she.

:)

I have to post a photo of my little girl some time. They are what get me out of bed in the morning.

I finished my morning shower, and my daughter; who was watching the TV, told me a plane had hit a building in New York.
I thought about the B-25 that hit the Empire State Building in 1945, because of fog.
But when I saw the TV of the WTC burning, and what a clear day it was, I thought something strange was happening.

I started to drive in to work, listening to the radio, when they reported the second plane hitting, and I knew it was an attack. I drove like crazy to get to the station.

My usual route would've taken me under Aon building; which is looks just like the WTC towers, I wasn't sure what was going on, so I went around Aon via Lake Shore Drive to get to work.

Once I was at the station, it was pandemonium, our GM was worried Sears Tower would be hit, and knock us off the air. I wanted to punch him in the mouth.

i'm sure she has you wrapped! you should visit one of my blogs where i tell family stories - not that i'm advertising, but you'd certainly appreciate some of the stories with my husband and daughter as subject matter.

I have to post a photo of my little girl some time.

Please do. I'll trade. Here is my granddaughter. I haven't seen her in two months, but I get to this weekend. I am taking her to her first baseball game (Astros v Pirates) on Sunday and her first trip to the beach (Galveston) Monday. I can't wait. I love that little girl to death!

i239.photobucket.com

"But when I saw the TV of the WTC burning, and what a clear day it was, I thought something strange was happening."

It was such a beautiful day.

"i'm sure she has you wrapped"

She owns me with two words... "Pease, Da-ee?"

"Please do."

I have to update my flicker account. Her new passport pic I have up at the office. And I have her hugging trees at the park. She knows I like it so she goes and says "picture, da-ee?"

Goatman what are you doing here? Why aren't you on vacation? I guess the retort is more important than your family?

Goatman what are you doing here?

Passing time while the AC guys install a new unit -- making me $5,899 poorer

Why aren't you on vacation?

I am.

I guess the retort is more important than your family?

Hardly. But I couldn't talk any of them into coming over and watch me watch the AC guys do their job. They mumbled some piss poor excuse about going to work or something.

How old is she, HC?

i LOVE that photo of your granddaughter, goatman - she can only get more beautiful!

Did you folks ever find it strange at the time that info that Bin Laden was behind this all came out so quickly?

"How old is she, HC?"

She'll be two in November.

Thanks, Nanc. I took that one two months ago. I can't wait to see her on Sunday. They change so quickly.

My d'in-law said she made her first 'sentence' (actually two word combination). She put her down for a nap and she started crying out, "No nap! No nap!"

I hope this isn't the beginning of a lifetime of defiance! Doesn't matter. I'm still spoiling her rotten best as I can.

I was on my way to interview a surgeon about a new procedure he developed; the interview was at his kitchen table because that was most convenient for the doctor.

As I pulled into the driveway there was a quick news report on NPR saying a small plane had hit one of the towers.

The interview took about an hour, and was interrupted by a phone call. The doctor's son had called to tell him he was not hurt.

The son was in the Air Force stationed at the Pentagon. His work area was destroyed by the plane, but the son had walked away moments earlier to get a bagel and coffee.

The Air Force son was worried that his father was watching TV and feared for his death.

I was at work in KC MO. I remember it took forever to get on the internet to CNN. I was shocked but when I went to the grocery store that night I could see a bonding had taken place with other shoppers!
We were united in a common cause.

I had a kidney stone attack that morning. When I called in sick, my boss told me about the plane crashing into one of the towers. I put TV in time to watch the second crash and the mayhem that followed.

I always tell myself, that if I was working in one of those two towers, my kidney stones would have saved my life.

#20 - only much later.

goatman - ours was born three months early and was so tiny for several years and had this little helium voice and when we taught them about "stranger danger" we told them to act a fool and scream out "GET THE HELL AWAY FROM ME!" - so i'd ask, "what do you say if someone says, "come over here and see my puppy"?", she'd get all worked up and jump up and down and in the voice of alvin the chipmunk, "i say, GET THE HELL AWAY FROM ME!" she's STILL that cute at 17.


I was in Israel on 09-11-01. It was time to leave work for the day when the news came over the emergency radio.

We all listened to the broadcasts and everyone (the regular everyday israelis - jews and arabs alike) wanted to comfort me and help me. I sort of got the feeling that they wanted to know if I was gonna go bezerk or something.

I went to the bathroom and a Ukranian Jew was there at the next urinal and he said (and I will never forget this), 'Dis vas an inside job, ya know, no?' Ex-USSR folks understand governmental corruption.

I went back to my hotel after turning down about 15 offers to come mourn and be among friends. I tell you that single thing has meant more to me than everything I know and own.

I was staying at a very nice hotel in an predominantly Arab town. The owner of the hotel was waiting for me when I came (which was very strange). He came to me, kissed me on the face (like they do) and begged me to come to his family and let them help me. I told him I needed to call my wife, which i did, but I really needed to see the news.

After I was able to gracefully stop his protestations, this was what was said.

Arab; 'Uh, Mr. Lipzoid, you won't make war with me will you'?

Lipzoid; 'How can I make war with you, we believe the same things'.

Arab; 'I wonder.'

Lipzoid; 'Tell me what you believe and I'll tell you if we agree or not'

Arab; 'It was an inside job'.

Lipzoid; 'I don't want to believe it, but I fear it is true'.

Arab; 'May God bless us'.

Lipzoid; 'Yes, I only hope we deserve his blessing'.

After we found out that the American Express offices that process foriegn charges was in the WTC, it became obvious that they could not process my payment (which was upwards of $1000 for the past week), the man had every right to call the cops or whatever he wanted to do. He did not do that. He carried the bill over and for 2 more weeks let me stay with no apparent means to pay. He even bought me a fine meal after the charges were finally cleared (which by this time was close to $3k). That was when he told me that had something went wrong, his job as well as his career would have been ruined but that he believed in me. For the first time since 911, I felt like crying.

The 2 lessons I learned from 911. 1) Jews and Arabs and Christians have more in common than any of them want to admit. 2) Good people exist everywhere, only government lies make them bad.

If you ever go to Israel, and happen to visit the ancient city of Akko (which is worth visiting), there is a nice white hotel (sorry, I can't tell you the name) on the road to the ancient city after you turn off the main road, stop in and tell them that an American nobody sends his best wishes to them and their family.


BTW, Akko is also called Acre.

I'm not sure I get your point.

#8 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2009-09-11 09:15 AM | Reply


Read the post directly above your's to get some direction. In addition are the cries from the Left that we investigate Bush, Cheney, The CIA and almost everyone else who helped keep another attack from happening on US soil.

THAT is 9/10 mentality.

And Obama clearly has the same mindset.

#27

I think that's the second time you posted that story. I think its an important one. Thank you for gracing my thread with it.

In addition are the cries from the Left that we investigate Bush, Cheney, The CIA and almost everyone else who helped keep another attack from happening on US soil.
THAT is 9/10 mentality.
And Obama clearly has the same mindset.
#29 | Posted by The_Chapel

I wonder about the value of saving our lives but losing our soul, i.e. what it means, or what we say it means, to be American.

You advocate giving away our identity with both hands, the "left", conversely, does not.

Here you go, g-man.

www.flickr.com/photos/ 28744883@N04/3909372479

I was waking up to goto work and listening to Howard Stern talk about it convinced it was another of his tasteless jokes. It was beyond my scope of belief. I got to work and nobody was there, they were all in one of the bedroom watching tv. I got to work as the second plane hit the building and I dropped.

HC: That link invoked Outlook. It is the "@" in your link that did it.

I always have trouble posting flickr links.

try a c&p.

Sorry.

I got to work and nobody was there, they were all in one of the bedroom watching tv.

#33 | Posted by kanrei at 2009-09-11 12:47 PM | Reply | Flag: Bordello

#33 | Posted by kanrei at 2009-09-11 12:47 PM | Reply | Flag: Bordello


I wish. Sleep lab.

I wish. Sleep lab.

#37 | Posted by kanrei

LOL, I know.

Trolled again.

:)

That wasn't a troll. Your standards are slipping.

I am trying to be good today and not trolling any thread with "9-11" in the title.

Sleep Lab sounds delightfully kinky

Okay, I think this link should work

//www.flickr.com/photos/
28744883@N04/3909372479/


Sleep Lab sounds delightfully kinky

#41 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2009-09-11 01:29 PM

Well, there was this one time....STOP IT! This is a 9/11 thread and I am not THAT strong.

That one worked, HC. Yes, a darling little girl! Thanks for the link.

#42 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2009-09-11 01:29 PM | Reply | Flag:GORGEOUS! no wonder you're taken! how do you keep from pinching those chubby little cheeks until they're bright red?!?

Hag,
Is that YOUR Daughter? Nice job!

#42 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2009-09-11 01:29 PM | Reply | Flag:GORGEOUS! no wonder you're taken! how do you keep from pinching those chubby little cheeks until they're bright red?!?

Talk about laying it on thick. Yuck.

Is that YOUR Daughter? Nice job!

She's a cutie, indeed.

I just miss my Melissa that much more, now. Sunday morning . . .

#47 | Posted by nullifidian at 2009-09-11 01:42 PM | Reply | Flag: was an ugly baby. Still is AAMOF

She started out looking a lot like me, but now she's morphing into my wife. She's still got my eyes though.

#42

We see who's little finger you are wrapped around, HC. I see she had her mother's good looks, eh?

"GORGEOUS! no wonder you're taken! how do you keep from pinching those chubby little cheeks until they're bright red?!?"

She learned the Heisman Trophy stiffarm from her mother.

My lady gives birth today,
I run to her room right away.
She smiles with glee,
Then hands her to me.
I look at my newborn and say
Damn that's a ugly baby!
Damn that's a ugly ass baby!

Im feeling quite concerned,
My semen must have turned
Cause damn that's an ugly baby!

This is just what I feared.
Her head is misshapen and weird
She's skinny like a twig,
At least her nuts are big.
But her hair color doesn't match her beard.
Damn that's a ugly baby!
God damn that's an ugly ass baby!

I give the doc a smackin' say,
Can't ya stuff her back in?
Cause damn that's a ugly mow mow

And when she smiles im fine,
Shane McGowan comes to mind.
It makes me want to cry,
When I look into her good eye.
I always wanted kids.
Is it wrong to hope for SIDS?

Fuck you its my fuckin' baby!

Then the doctor calls me in.
Mr. Lynch, she has a twin

Damn thats a good lookin' baby
1 for 2! On the good lookin' babies
I almost start to weep,
Now this one we can keep.
Cause that was an ugly ass baby-Stephen Lynch

=D Just kidding. Damnit, I trolled a 9-11 thread!

That's funny. A teacher in high school once told me she thought all children are beautiful and I thought she was insane.

Now I agree. Even the funny looking ones are beautiful.

#47 | Posted by nullifidian - when i see a photo of an ugly baby, i'm usually gracious enough to say something like, "that's some baby you have there!", but when a baby is beautiful i cannot help but make note of it. there ARE some very ugly babies out there - thank God for hoodies!

oh! put the hoodies on backwards on the ugly baby.

I said my niece looked like an old Jewish man when she was born, but she is so cute now. Babies just grab your soul and make themselves cute. There really is nothing cute about a drooling, shitting, bald, toothless, vehicle for destruction.

There really is nothing cute about a drooling, shitting, bald, toothless, vehicle for destruction.

That's what's so cool about being a grandfather. Poop, drool, whatever, it's back to mama. Then I get her back when she is poopless and droolless.

Great part of being an uncle too. Even better, I can make fun of my brother while he changes her. A little brother's job is never finished.

"i'm usually gracious enough to say something like"

#55 | Posted by nanc


Gracious? You're about as gracious as a monkey. You're the one terrified of being "contaminated" by poor people at the grocery store. Hateful bitch.

Don't say you're easy on me/ You're about as easy as a nuclear war
Duran Duran

DAMNIT! 9-11 thread. Disregard post #61.

Hateful bitch.

#60 | Posted by nullifidian at 2009-09-11 01:55 PM | Reply | Flag: Down, boy!

A little brother's job is never finished.
#59 | Posted by kanrei

I'm the oldest of 3 boys. Tormenting them is one of my favorite pastimes still.

How do you know that nul?

You libs just can't stop attacking people that don't think like you.

For all the Hell he put me through in my childhood, I am eagerly waiting to see her give it back to him. She just turned a year old and already has him wrapped around her finger. When she can talk, he is done.

I was working but had the TV on in another room. Happened to walk in and saw the first plane go into the Tower. I called my sister, who lived in New York City on the Lower East Side. Was very relieved when she answered the phone. She was on her terrace watching the entire horror. Later she volunteered for a 1-5am shift at a soup kitchen that fed the rescue/recovery workers a short distance from where the wreckage stood. She was never healthy after that, with serious upper respiratory and digestive problems. She passed away two years ago this month.

When she can talk, he is done.
#66 | Posted by kanrei

My daughter talks all day long. All. Day. Long. My wife says she gets it from me. Everybody says she gets it from me. I tell them, hey, I blog a lot of the time.

She passed away two years ago this month.
#67 | Posted by DawnGlo at 2009-09-11 02:08 PM

I'm sorry, Dawn. Thanks for bringing us back to the subject of this thread.

"Happened to walk in and saw the first plane go into the Tower."

You saw that on the day it happened?

I was laying in bed in a college dorm room with my then-girlfriend. My phone started ringing off the hook and finally I answered, it was my mother. The only thing she said was "turn on the tv." I was pissed off and figured she just wanted to show me something she thought was interesting. When I saw what she was talking about I was floored. I sat down and just stared at the TV for the next three hours, and I think I saw the second plane hit live. Nobody in my building said much the entire day, it was like the life had been taken out of everyone.

i watched every bit of the drama from washington square park after the first plane hit. i'll never forget the screams and shock on peoples faces as we watched together. then i moved to 6th ave for a better view and saw them fall. prior to that i remember seeing things falling out of the windows. at the time i figured it was debris from the building coming off but of course i later learned it was people jumping. after waking up my older sister in the village, (and being asked by her 'what do we do', which was strange, she's bossy) we walked uptown to my older brothers office. watched the news for several hours. although i was the youngest person in the office, i remember feeling the most affected. i was keen on following US foreign policy before and maybe knew more than others how big of a game changer this would be. my brother told my mom later that as i walked home from his office, i crossed park ave like a drunk. not walking straight. the next few weeks was odd with practically martial law running nyc below 32nd st. and f14s circling the city. i'll never forget crossing the military checkpoint at 32nd st. and my arab friend telling us to go ahead so that not all of us would have to get searched. right then it was clear the direction this event would take our country.

I was awaken by my 80 year old Grandmother before 6 am in AZ with terror in her voice. She couldn't contact my Mom by phone. After introducing Grandma to conference calling, I sat down right before the 2nd tower was hit....and watched the towers fall.

Later, as I asked many college students around the University of Arizona how I could pray for them, the most memorable was the skinny N African Muslim immigrant who looked sad, scared, and shaken who asked me to forgive the Muslims who perpetrated 9/11.

i'll never forget starting to tear up while watching from 6th ave when a total stranger rested her hand on my shoulder. i didn't turn around. there was no need. twas a nice gesture.

I was attending to my then infant son and my phone rang. My girlfriend had called to tell me a plane flew into one of the towers. As I was on the phone with her, the other one hit.

I will never forget that feeling as I knew we were being attacked. Even now, I am full of goosebumps.

I called the schools and told them to get my children at the main doors, I would be picking them up. I wanted them safely at home with me.

We sat and watched the horror unfold.

Soon, my house was flooded with family and friends, there children in tow. I will never forget the closeness we all felt.

I continue to pray for the families who have lost loved ones.

HC:

I don't find it odd at all that you kept thinking you wanted to go home, even if it was under attack.

Thank you for this thread and sharing your story.

"the next few weeks was odd with practically martial law running nyc below 32nd st."

I was out of the country. I thought the checkpoint was at 14th St. I live my whole life (off hours) below 32nd. I can't even begin to imagine what that was like.

I try to look at everyone I meet as my brother or sister (its the hippie in me) but I admit that its hard to keep that vision every day. Today I'm trying extra hard to do this.

Thank you for this thread and sharing your story.
#75 | Posted by Lisa

Right back atchya, Lisa.

#77

It's not the hippie in you, HC. It's the brotherly love in you!!!

Kinda Christianlike! : )

#78

Thank you sweetie!

I had a very difficult watching it all over again on TV today, as I'm sure most of us did.

Tears still streaming.

i think you're right HC, the checkpoint was 14th st but business below 32nd was all closed. yup, because it was the south end of union square.

i just remembered: walking down the stairs of my sister's village apt, with an old french lady a couple of flights up doing the same. she said something along the lines: 'owe you americans are going to make this out to be such a big deal, never dealt with this kind of thing before.'

i never came closer to punching an old lady before....


also on 6th ave right before they fell, what like 9am, seeing a suit walking briskly with a tall can of bud in his hand. he figured it out early. i didn't start my binge till that afternoon...

"I don't find it odd at all that you kept thinking you wanted to go home, even if it was under attack."

I just wanted to be with my family. If it was all coming to an end (I mean, who knew one way or the other, right?), I wanted to be with them. In retrospect, I'm glad I stayed in Peru. It was an amazing experience, I helped some people to a degree (I got to see what real poverty was like), and its where I proposed to my wife.

PS - pic of my daughter posted upthread, lisa.

"Later, as I asked many college students around the University of Arizona how I could pray for them, the most memorable was the skinny N African Muslim immigrant who looked sad, scared, and shaken who asked me to forgive the Muslims who perpetrated 9/11"

The hardest thing to do in life is to forgive those who have caused harm to you.

Kinda Christianlike! : )
#79 | Posted by Lisa

I keep what's in my heart private as best I can.

So much has changed, so much is gone that it is really hard to believe it was ONLY 8 years ago.

Awwww...she is BEAUTIFUL HC!!!!!!

You are so Blessed, HC. No wonder you have a beautiful heart!

an interlude:

www.youtube.com

"its where I proposed to my wife."

That's beautiful!

My husband kept asking me to marry him but I had had a few bad experiences with men and I kept brushing him off.

One day while we were on the phone, he asked again and I told him I would marry him if he got down on one knee on the sidewalk he was walking down, in front of everyone and ask me, never thinking Mr. Macho would do it.

After he gave his cell phone to someone going into a store he was in front of so I could verify he was indeed on one knee...I said yes.

"'owe you americans are going to make this out to be such a big deal, never dealt with this kind of thing before.'
i never came closer to punching an old lady before...."


That totally reminds me...

Since US air travel was shut down, I had to wait for my boss to get to Lima for a few extra days before we could head out to Iquitos where our research was based, so we basically had to do the city tourist thing. We went to this mall to see a movie (I think it was planet of the apes) and before hand we sat for some ice cream. The server, seeing we were not Peruanos, thought it a god chance to practice his English. He was doing the chit-chat thing and then brought up the wtc. He says to us, "how do you say... just desserts?" The two of us looked at him in astonishment. Then the light went on in his head and he asked us where we were from. "NYC" we told him. His jaw dropped down to the floor as he backed away. He got another waiter to help us from there on. Seems he thought we were Canadian.

Now don't get me wrong, in a way I can appreciate that sentiment, but it was way too soon for that.

I was on the way to work, on the A train, headed to midtown (Rockefeller Center) from Richmond Hill, Queens (end of the line), when the train suddenly stopped somewhere in downtown Brooklyn. They told us there was a "train emergency" and we had to get off.

I stepped onto the platform and made my way up the stairs to the next level, still underground. On that level, there were hundreds (thousands?) of people milling about, if milling can be frenzied. Some people were in tears. I wondered if there had been an accident. I asked a transit worker who told me that the WTC had been bombed and thousands were dead. This was after the first plane struck but before the second.

I went aboveground and found myself somewhere in downtown Brooklyn--not a stop I knew but I had sense of the right direction. Of course, home was way too far to walk, and we knew at this time that trains weren't running till further notice. Lines at payphones were twenty or so deep. But I waited. Tried to call my wife, but found out she was at a meeting. Began to worry about my friend and my brother-in-law, both of whom worked down there.

I was... on edge. I finally realized I had a place to go--my best friend's house was about 12 long blocks from me. So I called him, left a message for my wife to let her know where I would be, and started walking.

The rest of the day was spent with said friend and his then one-year-old son, in their apartment in Cobble Hill, Brooklyn, a stone's throw from the river. Gazing into that innocent face was... comforting. If anything could be said to be comforting. And painful. How can these two things exist in the world at the same time. My friend told me that he had looked up the street to see the smoke and the tower still standing. He had seen what looked like debris falling, then realized what he was actually seeing. His wife worked in Manhattan, and no one knew when she would be coming home. I didn't know when I would get back home either. No trains. I tried and tried to call my family members, all of whom reside far from the Big Apple; when I was finally able to get through to one of them--I forget who--I said to spread the word to everyone that both the wife and I were safe, and so were all my friends, so far as I knew. (There were others I was worried about, but it was a week before we tracked down all our friends.)

I forget what time I got home--it was very late. My wife and I hugged for a very long time. And cried.

"An interlude"

I had forgotten that I ate there once when I was a kid, maybe 7 or 8 years old. There was this window with a bar in front of it (its in the video) where you could lean over and see directly down. It was the first time I realized I was scared of heights. When I saw thos people jumping, I knew first hand what the choice to do so looked like.

The eeriest thing I personally experienced after 9/11 was living so close to Mitchell International Airport in Milwaukee.

Sitting in my livingroom, I always watched planes that were taking off. We always heard planes overhead.

To look out my stain glass windows and see no air traffic was actually horrifying to me.

I had to drive past Miami International everyday for work for weeks afterwards and I remember thinking "that plane looks really low" everytime one was coming in or taking off. I was half expecting it to crash into 826 anytime.

i never wanted to fly again.

I was going to a parent/teacher conference and stopped at the Anna Truck stop on US 75 for coffee. Just before I turned off the engine of the truck, I heard the report of the first plane hitting. I figured a small single engine, but intrigued, I stayed in the car and listened. Then the reports started coming in that it was a commercial jet. I was flabbergasted and couldn't figure out how a commercial pilot could have made such a mistake. I still didn't think terrorism.

But I changed my mind about the coffee and went on to the school. Just as I parked, I heard the report of the second plane. It was then I knew it was a coordinated attack.

I went into the school and surprisingly no one in the office had heard. I told them. They turned on radios and listened in disbelief. I can't even remember how the conference turned out. Strangely enough, I can't say for certainty we even had it.

Just as now, I had no TV, so I went to my aunt's house a few miles away to watch. The whole day was so surreal. The impossible was happening any my mind couldn't wrap itself around what was going on.

Kan:

Once planes were in the air again, I kept thinking planes were flying too low as well.

I also sat on my couch, looking out those two windows and praying for each flight I saw take off, saying please Father, make sure they get to their destination safely.

I did that for a very long time.

Me either Nanc.

It took me till 2006 before I did.

Seeing F16s (or whatever) flying over the boroughs was extremely creepy. And military helicopters.

Seeing armed military walking down the street was unsettling, to say the least.

Walking downtown, two days after, and seeing people going about their daily business wearing air-filter masks was more eerie than any of that.

I'm going to pretend I didn't see any of the posts that attempt to politicize this thread.

I was in the cafeteria of my college, I remember there were a few people sitting around the t.v. in an area that was usually empty. At that point, all anyone knew was that a plane had struck the building, they weren't even sure if it was a passenger plane or not.

I think after that, all our stories become quite similar. It still amazes me how the emotions can wash over you when you see the videos. In a way I am glad that they are not played more often, I would hate for anyone to become numb to them.

God Bless everyone.

"So much has changed, so much is gone that it is really hard to believe it was ONLY 8 years ago."

I take my daughter for swim lessons in battery park city, which was created with the dirt that was removed to build the Towers. Every weekend I walk past the construction site. You'd think it only happened last year.

The bullshit between Larry Silverstein and the Port Authority of NY and NJ has got to stop. I just heard that the PA doesn't think the construction will be done before 2034.

2034?!! What TF is wrong with you people? The original towers were built in less than a decade for pete's sake. Its a disgrace.

I live about 10 minutes from the Flight 93 site.

I pass it often and get a very sombering feeling when I do.

I just can't bring myself to actually drive by it.

It still amazes me how the emotions can wash over you when you see the videos.

Today I am thankful I do not have TV. I would be glued watching in disbelief trying to convince myself it did really happen in my lifetime.

I was working at the university and didn't know anything was happening at first.

Then it was on every TV on campus and we just watched...unbelievingly....

the first flight i took afterwards, maybe 2 or 3 months after, the pilot came out and said to keep our seatbelts on at all times. he then said if there was any 'trouble' this plane was going upside down, and anyone not wearing their belt will hit the ceiling hard. i felt comforted by that, oddly enough. this guy was clearly ex air force. too bad they're a dying breed.

hc - what IS the hold up?

#100

No, HC it doesn't look like it will.

The owners of the land are still bickering about the value of the property.

I can't speak for the rest of you NY'ers, but I'll admit that I'm still acutely aware of air traffic in the area. I don't mention it to anyone, but I'm usually not the only one who notices. Our eyes may meet and we'll give one another that look that says we'll take care of one another if it ever comes to that again.

I was in my Japanese class. I tried to explain to my uber-hot teacher what the Pentagon was to no avail.

After class I went home, smoked a bowl, and sat in front of the TV for the rest of the day.

Today I am thankful I do not have TV. I would be glued watching in disbelief trying to convince myself it did really happen in my lifetime.
#102 | Posted by kanrei

I'm home today. I'm blogging continuously so as not to turn the TV on. One more hour then to daycare to pick up the little girl.

Then it will be Yo Gabba Gabba for an hour until the wife gets home.

I'm with you on that, HC.


Nanc:

Last I heard, the property owners wanted 10 million for the land..some 270 acres.

Personally, I feel it's a slap in the face to those who bravely sacrificed their lives to protect many others.

Once again...the love of money is the root of all evil.

Lisa-

37,000 an acre is hardly an outrageous request.

hc - what IS the hold up?

From what I heard from Silverstein in the last couple of days, the site is broken up into two sections, one being built by silverstein, and one being built by the Port Authority. But the commuter hub entrance is on Silversteins side and he can't really get things going until that's done.

The port authority is dragging its feet because they are having a hard time getting tenents to commit to occupancy. Silverstein is arguing "build it and they will come". I was annoyed with him when he was trying to double dip with his insurance, claiming that it was two different accidents, but with that settled, I have to agree with him here.

I think part of the hold up is the debate of making a memorial or another business center. Arguments for both have merit. Having not been to NY though, that may have been settled and I didn't know it.

Did you folks ever find it strange at the time that info that Bin Laden was behind this all came out so quickly?#20 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2009-09-11 09:47 AM | Reply

What were the OTHER options?
Castro?
Tony Blair?
Jimmy Carter?
Who else famously bragged about his hatred and will to harm the US?

I remember sitting in a line to get gas with all the paranoia over a gas shortgage. there was almost a fight in front of me over getting to the pump.

One station raised their prices to $5 and rightfully got fined for it later.

Having not been to NY though, that may have been settled and I didn't know it.
#113 | Posted by kanrei

I think its settled. In the footprints of the towers there will be two reflecting pools.

I was, and still am, for putting up the exact same towers, albeit with structural improvements.

#114

Nice try, troll. Go play somewhere else.

One station raised their prices to $5 and rightfully got fined for it later.
#115 | Posted by eberly

That's some vicious mierda right there.

#115 - some stations here were only allowing people ten gallons at a time from what i heard.

People in these parts are really complaining about it Brent.

Lisa-

I guess I shouldn't talk about something I don't know much about. I'm from prime farming country in the midwest. Perhaps with the crops and soil out in those parts, it very well may be an outrageous price.

I was, and still am, for putting up the exact same towers, albeit with structural improvements.

Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2009-09-11 03:14 PM

So was and am I. It is the ulitmate statement of Americanism- you can knock us down, but we will get right back up again stronger.

bin laden DID claim responsibility for the attacks, however it was quite awhile later. hopefully his memoirs will become available at some point in time?

Here here Kanrei

Kind of nice to have a thread where everyone agrees with everyone.

Aw crap, "Hear hear Kanrei"

Can't believe I just did that.

The son was in the Air Force stationed at the Pentagon. His work area was destroyed by the plane, but the son had walked away moments earlier to get a bagel and coffee.The Air Force son was worried that his father was watching TV and feared for his death.#23 | Posted by vernon at 2009-09-11 09:55 AM | Reply |

You were doing the "Lord's work" in that instance, keeping him free from fear 'til his son called.

I heard a pastor 2 years ago who had 10 church members who worked in the WTC. NONE of them went to work that day, thinking God was telling them not to go to work, according to this guy. One of them was, despite the warning "thoughts", still planning on going, and his toolbox tipped over and broke his foot in the garage. Wish I wrote down his name.

after 9/11, we saw property prices around here triple and quadruple in some places and then drop like a lead balloon last year. even at the hyperinflated prices it was still quite affordable. of course, this isn't prime new york real estate!

Can't believe I just did that.


Spirit of the thread. We are sparring partners here, all of us, but none of us are really enemies.

I meant can't believe I just said "here here" when I meant "hear hear."

Agreed though, I'm sure I could even bring myself to have a coffee with Danni.

bin laden DID claim responsibility for the attacks, however it was quite awhile later. hopefully his memoirs will become available at some point in time?
#123 | Posted by nanc

Even if he didn't do it, it was brilliant PR for him to claim to have. What did David get for slaying Goliath?

It's ok Brent.

I'm just repeating what people here are saying. A friend of mine and I were talking about this today and she feels it's way too much money for Somerset and feels the owners are taking advantage of the situation.

Didn't even catch the wrong here =D

"Kind of nice to have a thread where everyone agrees with everyone."

I absolutely agree!

Even if he didn't do it, it was brilliant PR for him to claim to have.

Isn't that what Carlos the Jackal did? I remember seeing a doc that said he would take claim for everything knowing he would get the credit for at least half of them.

#128 | Posted by kanrei - except for rasta who wants me to die a slow agonizing death or something like that!

#130 - kingship.

#132

?

#130 - kingship.
#135 | Posted by nanc

So you see my point.

#132 - ruh?

#137 - yes, he is now the hero to many - we being goliath.

#132 was to brentrice1.

#132 - ruh?

#138 | Posted by nanc at 2009-09-11 03:29 PM | Reply | Flag: Astro impersonation?

hey y'all - it's been a good way to spend the day, but i have important business to attend - our baby is going to regionals in golf and state after that and TEA Party tomorrow! if you'll now begin pooling your pennies - jic i need bail money?

#141 - rat's right, ragrard!

our baby is going to regionals in golf and state after that and TEA Party tomorrow!

Good luck with the Golf =D

Thanks to everyone who shared their stories and helped get this thread to the front page, and to all those who treated one another with more than the usual amount of respect.

Off to daycare.

Later.

#138 | Posted by nanc at 2009-09-11 03:29 PM | Reply | Flag: Astro impersonation?

Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2009-09-11 03:33 PM

No, it was a Rastro Impression.

The son was in the Air Force stationed at the Pentagon. His work area was destroyed by the plane, but the son had walked away moments earlier to get a bagel and coffee.The Air Force son was worried that his father was watching TV and feared for his death.#23 | Posted by vernon at 2009-09-11 09:55 AM | Reply |

You were doing the "Lord's work" in that instance, keeping him free from fear 'til his son called.

I heard a pastor 2 years ago who had 10 church members who worked in the WTC. NONE of them went to work that day, thinking God was telling them not to go to work, according to this guy. One of them was, despite the warning "thoughts", still planning on going, and his toolbox tipped over and broke his foot in the garage. Wish I wrote down his name.

here's something i wanted to post here earlier and remembered to forget - the memorial the russians gave u.s. in memoriam of 9/11:

www.911monument.com

i'd really like to see this if i ever make it to the east coast.

Where were these guys on 9/11?
9/11 and Israel, link here:
9/11 and Israel

I was at home sleeping. My cousin woke me up, semi-hysterical, and asked if I was going to have to go back into the military. I had no idea what she was talking about, and said so. She told me to turn on the TV.

I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I told my cousin, no, I'd been mustered out of the Inactive Ready Reserves just a month beforehand. I'd served my obligation and wasn't going back.

I was just transfixed by what I saw. I went to work and those souls brave enough to show up all spent the day keeping up with the news. Thankfully, since I work at an NPR news station, that wasn't hard to do.

I remember people analyzing what happened and trying to make sense of it. What sense could you make at the time, without facts? We had who, what, when, where, but no why.

A friend asked me what I thought would happen. I replied retaliation. He asked whether I thought it was right or wrong. I said it's irrelevant, retaliation is policy. No government wishes itself to be perceived as a door mat. There will be blood, it's policy.

I remember praying for the souls of the dead that night. That they'd be able to find peace and glory, because their time was cut short. Then I went back to bed, hoping I wouldn't be woken up with another phone call.

I was at a workshop with a small number of people, trying to absorb what some computer geek was telling us about how to make some programs work when we took a break. Walking by an office I heard someone say, "Plane flew into the World Trade Center." And I thought, "Well, that's weird, it's too bad, hmmmmm."

So back to the stunningly uninformative encounter with the geek until someone came into the room and said, "A second plane just flew into the World Trade Center." And I thought, right away, terrorists.

A guy at the session was in the Guards and he mumbled something and I asked him to repeat it and he said, "This means war."

I remember, from that day, watching as the horror unfolded on the television, checking with friends on the East Coast to make sure they were okay, crying a lot, and whatever network I listened to -- probably CNN -- constantly playing Enya's "Only Time" (www.youtube.com), a song I happened to love which which I've never been able to listen to all the way through since.

When I saw the triage people standing around with nothing to do and the poor souls wandering in and out of camera range with slapped-together posters asking if anyone had seen so-and-so it broke my heart.

I don't think I've ever been so goddamned angry in my entire life.

Jon Stewart's "The Daily Show" from September 20, 2001: www.thedailyshow.com

Driving to work, listening to NPR still pretending this might be an accident. I couldn't stop laughing because it was obviously not an accident and they were trying so hard not to alarm anybody.

^.^

I remember that Tuesday morning. The night before, the Denver Broncos had won the first Monday Night Football game of the season, and my alarm woke me up with: "Well, there's really no use talking about sports right now..."

I remember getting mad "What the Hell, you'd BETTER talk sports..." Then the guy started talking about the plane hitting the World Trade Center, and I thought "You're joking!"

Then I turned on the TV....

The ride to work was almost totally silent, with only the radio reports being heard on the bus. I got to the college, where I worked as a test center administrator. I remember that our download site, where we download the day's tests, was in Washington DC, so when I tried to download the day's tests, the modem would dial, wait, dial, wait, hang up, and I'd have to dial in again. With what was happening on the East Coast, no wonder I was having trouble getting a phone call placed...

Wierd thing was my boss came in and asked if he could take a test. I told him that with everything that was happening that it would be next to impossible to get one downloaded, but he insisted. And after a couple tries, it actually worked, so the test center has one entry for 9/11/2001.

I remember people had brought a TV out into the first floor lobby and were watching the news coverage ... one of them had relatives in the area in SW Pennsylvania where Flight 93 crashed.

I also worked as a newspaper carrier at the time, and the local newspaper issued a flash copy which was redistributed the next day, and as the days went by with nothing but coverage of the attacks, I remember one of my subscribers asking why I couldn't deliver good news.

I was like: "I wish I could."

I'll take time after work today to remember the people who died today eight years ago.

John B.

We were in Fort Piece, FL setting up a new Adult store called the Cosmic Kiss. The manager from the Pilot station adjacent to the store came running in to tell us to turn on the TV.

I was, and still am, for putting up the exact same towers, albeit with structural improvements.

#116 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2009-09-11 03:14 PM | Reply | Flag


There was nothing wrong with the first design---they were designed for multiple hits.

There was nothing wrong with the first design---they were designed for multiple hits.
#156 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob

Shhh...
I was trying not to antagonize anyone on this thread.

Shhh...
I was trying not to antagonize anyone on this thread.

#157 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2009-09-11 05:44 PM | Reply | Flag


I don't think you would be the one blamed for "antagonizing anyone". People who would get pissed for asking questions about 911 aren't worthy of concern about their feelings anyway.

There were explosions at the WTC before the planes got there. There were explosions at the WTC after the planes got there.

You can see the squibs traveling up the sides of WTC7 just before it collapses. The best way to honor those who died on 911 is to find out EXACTLY WTF happened. Anything else denigrates their memory.

Watch the squibs travel from the bottom up on both the front and sides of WTC 7

Put your cursor on a corner of the building--it falls straight down.

^.^

I have a 26-minute bit of music clipped from Tangerine Dream's "Soundmill Navigator" that when you listen, you can pick out all of the events in order from the lead terrorist going through the gates at Portsmouth, Maine, through the events of the attacks, into that evening when the people were
looking for their relatives, and into the commemorations the next day, with Mr. bush and the firefighters.

It's a really interesting piece of music, that was only performed once before the Berlin Philharmic in May of like 1976. I would it very wild that such a song could so accurately depict the events despite the fact that the song was written so long ago.

John B.

^.^

I am for rebuilding the towers exactly as they were, with structural improvements and such, as the structre was not designed for the heat generated by plane fuel on fire ... but I would build them 5 feet taller.

John B.

#157 - it WAS only a matter of time - i'm surprised the thread lasted as long as it did!

Shhh...

I was trying not to antagonize anyone on this thread.

Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2009-09-11 05:44 PM


Then what's your purpose in even posting on DR? You know the rules! LOL

as the structre was not designed for the heat generated by plane fuel on fire ... but I would build them 5 feet taller.

John B.

#160 | Posted by lunahq7 at 2009-09-11 06:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

Actually, the building was designed for multiple hits by aircraft, and the ensueing fires. Most of the fuel was ejected into the huge fireballs seen at impact--the rest burned off relatively quickly, and in a smoke filled oxygen starved atmosphere, it wouldn't have burned anywhere near its optimum heat, nor would there have been anything near the columns that was that combustible. Jet fuel is basically kerosene, and only burns in mist or vapor form. There were explosions before the planes got there---doesn't that bother you at least a little?

Explosions at WTC before planes got there

^.^

Oh come on! WTC 1 & 2 both came down because a plane partially cut through the supports *and* because the plane fuel that caught fire destroyed the fire suppression system and caused the structures to buckle.

WTC 7 was heavily damaged with the collapse of WTC 1 & 2 and that building dropped because of that damage.

I don't agree with everything that Bush did or said, or says, but Osama bin Laden himself said that the plan that KSM came up with worked better than he had hoped, and I'll bet Osama would be insulted that you are not giving him the credit he deserves ...

... and hopefully now we can go back to why this thread has been so nice today...

John B.

Then what's your purpose in even posting on DR? You know the rules! LOL
#162 | Posted by CALIFCHRIS

You know me, I'm as diplomatic as they come here (dismal success rate), but this thread, on this day, was supposed to be different.

Chris, check out #42

#163
Bob, I heard it was all done under the guise of asbestos abatement. two birds with one stone.

Explosions at WTC before planes got there

#163 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2009-09-11 06:46 PM


9-11 CONSPIRACIES -- ALL DAY LONG!

I'll bet you were up at 12:01 a.m. this morning -- all (((jiggy))) with caffeine and your fingers just itching to hit that keyboard. whoooeeeee. lol

#168

LMBO

OMGosh....the visual!!!

Sorry Bob, I couldn't stop myself from laughing no matter how hard I tried!

Chris, check out #42

#166 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2009-09-11 06:50 PM


She's beautiful, Hagbard_Celine.

No wonder you're so smitten and I love that twinkle in her eye!

Thanks for sharing your little girl with us.

that twinkle is going to mean trouble one day.

"that twinkle is going to mean trouble one day."

Daddy's gonna have to answer the door with a baseball bat to keep the boys in line!

At class in a banquet room, my first week of undergrad. There was a TV right outside the banquet room. Once the presentations ended and I left the room half-asleep, I got to see a whole different kind of presentation that woke me right up.

Daddy's gonna have to answer the door with a baseball bat to keep the boys in line!
#172 | Posted by Lisa

First she's getting signed up for Karate at three years old.

Then I have this picture of her cheering sitting next to her first poo in the potty. that should do it.

LOL

Good plan!

I was working for the US Military that morning, and my girlfriend dragged me out of the shower to tell me about the "accident" and ask me how it could have happened [i was a private pilot at the time].

While watching the live coverage, the second plane hit the tower. I said "Oh, SHIT... we're at war" and ran for the door.

I must have broken ever speed limit law on my way to the base. While sitting at the guard station, I heard on the radio about the plane hitting the pentagon. They sealed the base behind me.

Because of the shielding at my office, everyone who got to work early was unaware of what was going on. When I announced it, some thought if was a joke... but that ended within minutes as other reports, both official and unofficial, trickeled in.

I am glad that I was able, in some small way, to help our country in that time of crisis. It was hard to stay focused on doing my job, when something like that occurs and you feel a need to watch, to be with friends and family. For all those people who died, and for all their loved ones, my heart goes out to you.

May we never forget.

I was in 5th grade at that time. I don't remember much, but I do remember being in school. I remember the next day a lot better, though. I was in History class and our teacher showed us a newspaper of the 9/11 attacks. I was a little confused at first, but soon I learned the real deal. All this crap started happening. TV started censoring the slightest 9/11 references and people were going on about it. I was just incredibly shocked. Unfortunately, I cannot remember the exact day of 9/11, but I do remember the feeling...the anxiety...the heartbreak. Never forget the people who died, and what we have taken for granted all this time, like our freedom, our safety, our independence, and liberty. We must never take those things for granted again, and stand together to prevent future tragedies. I am proud, and will always be proud, to be an American.

-Deven D.

#42

Wotta doll!

#164 | Posted by lunahq7 at 2009-09-11 06:47 PM | Reply | Flag

I guess the fact that there were explosions at the WTC before the planes got there doesn't bother you even a little bit. I guess the fact that you can see squibs going off at WTC7 as it collapses seems perfectly normal.

I hear demolition experts say how long it takes to figure out how to make a building fall into its own footprint--they must be fools---all you have to do is take out one floor near the top, and the whole thing falls traight down. We saw the proof--three times.

I say to leave questions unanswered about what happened that day is an insult to all who died and who have died since then because of the attacks.

I'm sure that 700 expert engineers and archtects who dispute your logic has as much bearing on your reality as the explosions before and after the planes hit. Sweep it all under the rug---but "remember".

patriotsquestion911.com

It was the most beautiful day I can remember. Blue sky, not a cloud in sight, and warm. I left the house headed for one of my forest study sites to collect data while I was in grad school. After getting coffee, the DJ interrupted a song to say an accident happened at the World Trade Center when a small plane (not much info initially in PA)hit one of the towers. When I got to the forest I called my wife who was telecommuting from home and asked if she had heard about the accident. In a flat tone, she told me I needed to come home right now, that a second plane had hit the other tower. I was glued to the TV all day. I was in shock and just seconds before the first tower fell, I noticed a slight settling of the upper floors and yelled to my wife, "my god it's falling." I cried.

I lived in NJ most of my life and often rode the PATH trains into the World Trade Center station. When I saw footage from a rescuer's camera days later, I imediately recognized the escalator that went from the station to street level.

Like Lisa, I couldn't see a plane in silhouette without feeling fear creep up. Ironically, my study site was directly on line with the runway at a commuter airport. Planes flying in and out over my head all day. I had a pit in my stomach every time I went out there.

It was either 9/12/01 or 9/13/01 when I was in the woods at another study site that 2 F-16s (I think) flew past, hauling ass at about 200 feet over the trees. Scared the hell out of me. I later found out a small plane had strayed into airspace above a nuclear power plant and the planes were scrambled to intercept it. Tense times.

#152 | POSTED BY DOC_SARVIS

Doc, the link isn't working.....I'll see if I can find it on Youtube.

I was wiring a house about 20 miles from here. One of my laborers had a 12 volt portable TV he was trying to pawn to me for $20. We just happened to be trying out the little piece of shit when I tuned into local channel 3, just in time to see the second plane hit in real time. We sat and watched it for about an hour, wondering who could/would do such a thing. After the initial shock,not knowing what else I COULD do, I went to a remote corner of the McMansion we were working on and cried. I just KNEW there were 10's of thousands dead. It still amazes me that there weren't. RIP, fellow Americans.

Jon Stewart's 9/20/01 speech:

warmingglow.uproxx.com

Buffalo Bob and his kindred fantasizers like to make up stuff that didn't happen. I went to Bob's link thinking I'd see some footage of the "explosions prior to the airplane strike." There were just people claiming it happened. There are so many factual errors in what Bob claims that it's not worth the time to refute them. Bob first states that MOST of the jet fuel burned off in the fireball and then says that jet fuel doesn't burn well unless it's sprayed as vapor. When facts that you claim are mutually exclusive you're not stating anything truthful.

A1 that surprises me. I thought you hated city slickers and wouldn't care if they died or not.

Why would you think that, Jackass? Cause I'm a white conservative from West Virginia? Really? For your information, I have had black and brown girlfriends (even one half-yellow), and I didn't have to pay for them...(any more than the usual costs of dating). BTW, I've been outside WV, even...LOL!

"I was in 5th grade at that time."

You've got to be the youngest person to ever post here and cop to it.... man do I feel old.

"I just KNEW there were 10's of thousands dead. It still amazes me that there weren't."

The difference between 8:45 and 9:30... you'd think that would've occurred to them, they were in the US long enough to know how things work. almost makes it seem calculated.

As bad as it was,thankfully it wasn't an hour later. What was the daily average of occupants? 50K in both toweres?

AndyB62

The people who said there were explosions before the planes hit, seem credible. Why do you think they were lying? Were these people lying also?

www.youtube.com

www.prisonplanet.com

How about actual pictures of the damage to the lobby? Can you deny what your eyes see?

www.youtube.com

Bob first states that MOST of the jet fuel burned off in the fireball and then says that jet fuel doesn't burn well unless it's sprayed as vapor. When facts that you claim are mutually exclusive you're not stating anything truthful.

#184 | Posted by AndyB62 at 2009-09-11 07:51 PM | Reply | Fla


The facts aren't mutually exclusive--they complement each other. But first, you misstated what I said. I never said jet fuel had to be sprayed as a vapor---I said jet fuel won't burn unless it is in mist or vapor form. The massive fireballs werew in mist form, and ignited by the collisions between building and plane. The jet fuel would had accted like a giant sloshing liquid and mostly been thrown from the building---hence the giant fireballs. What remained would have acted like any liquid and flowed everywhere, and burned off if it turned into a vapor.

The planes weren't fully loaded with fuel on take off, and they burned quite a lot on the flight into the target area. Running fast at low altitude burns lots of fuel quickly. Thre was no massive fire inside the WTC--all the pictures show an oxygen starved smoky fire. That kind of fire burns much cooler than a fire with lots of oxygen. Smoke means incomplete combustion, and smoke takes the place of oxygen making the fires smaller and cooler--the videos of the towers bear this simple fact out.

You seem to doubt the words of the people who were there and survived the attack. Why is that? You seem to deny the family members who seek answers. Why is that?

patriotsquestion911.com

I was at work watching the TV and this visa guy from Liberia commented that he hoped it happened a lot more. I told my bosses but they said he had a right to voice his opinion. Go figure I would've unceremoniously canned his piece of shit ass in front of everybody.

"I was at work watching the TV and this visa guy from Liberia commented that he hoped it happened a lot more."

Some things are worth the assault charge.

I was on my farm when I heard the news come on the radio. I think I was harvesting some onions at the time.

When Kennedy was shot I was on my farm. We was doing some canning when we heard the news.

When Pearl Harbor was attacked I was playing outside on the on my daddy's farm. I don't recall what I was doing specifically. My older brother enlisted that week and he gave his life for our country on his 20th birthday.

^.^

In response to Item #190...

The planes were fully-loaded trans-continental flights that had to be fully-loaded with fuel in order to make the flight.

You said:

"I said jet fuel won't burn unless it is in mist or vapor form. The massive fireballs werew in mist form, and ignited by the collisions between building and plane. The jet fuel would had accted like a giant sloshing liquid and mostly been thrown from the building."

The problem with that is that it ignores physics, because even buying into your argument for a second, even the fuel that carried into the building from the crash would have caught fire and burned, unless we're talking about VAMPIRE FUEL, which only bursts into flames when it comes into contact with direct sunlight...

As has been said, it seems you tend to ignore facts that don't support your conspiracy theories, then you put up this patriotsquestion911 link like it's going to prove your point. "Patriots" may question 9/11, but intelligent people know how to sort facts from Alex Jones-inspired conspiracy. In my posts on this subject, I have stated facts ... here's how and why WTC 1 & 2 came down, and here's how and why WTC 7 came down a few hours later. I watched WTC 7 myself. If the conspiracy theories made any sense, I'd give them more credence ... but they don't.

Sorry.

John B.

Nobody wants 9-11-01 investigated thoroughly. We as a Nation couldn't handle the truth.

Larry

I was at work watching the TV and this visa guy from Liberia commented that he hoped it happened a lot more.

#191 | Posted by Gimme_a_Scotch

Too funny. I would have died laughing.

he gave his life for our country on his 20th birthday.

#193 | Posted by DukeMantee

RIP

I was at work watching the TV and this visa guy from Liberia commented that he hoped it happened a lot more.

#191 | Posted by Gimme_a_Scotch

Too funny. I would have died laughing.

#196 | Posted by jackass at 2009-09-11 09:26 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose) Sick Puppy

Bob, yes I did misinterpret what you had written but John B #194 explains what I was now thinking. I don't want to deny justice to anybody touched by 9/11. I don't necessarily think witnesses are lying, I think they are mistaken. Eye witness accounts of fast moving events are more often incorrect than not. What the mind's eye sees isn't necessarily what happened. None of these eye witnesses accounts are coroborated by video, photos, or evidence.

The planes were fully-loaded trans-continental flights that had to be fully-loaded with fuel in order to make the flight.

You are simply mistaken. Fuel weighs a lot, and airplanes only take what they need, plus a little extra for emergencies. The fights in question were made daily, and the fuel consumption was well known. The range of the jets was far longer than the distance they had to fly, so they werten't fully loaded with fuel. Do you have a link to your statement that they were fully loaded on take off?? Here are link to my statement that they were not fully loaded.

Range of the 767 5200 Nautical miles. One nautical mile equals 1.150779448024 mile. 5200 x 1.150779448024 = 5984,mi as close as my calculator can take it. The distance between Boston and LA is less than 3000 miles. Fuel is heavy and they don't carry what they don't need. They had almost twice the range necessary, and wouldn't have been fully loaded. Here is a link to prove my point.

In the popular imagination, the jet fuel was the biggest factor in bringing down the towers. News reports emphasized that the transcontinental flights were fully loaded with fuel, while later government reports stated that the 767s were carrying about 10,000 of their 24,000-gallon capacity, and that most of the jet fuel likely burned off within five minutes. Thus, the jet fuel primarily served to ignite the post-crash fires rather than sustain them.

911review.com

u said:

"I said jet fuel won't burn unless it is in mist or vapor form. The massive fireballs werew in mist form, and ignited by the collisions between building and plane. The jet fuel would had acted like a giant sloshing liquid and mostly been thrown from the building."

The problem with that is that it ignores physics, because even buying into your argument for a second, even the fuel that carried into the building from the crash would have caught fire and burned, unless we're talking about VAMPIRE FUEL, which only bursts into flames when it comes into contact with direct sunlight...

Your attempt at denigrating this conversation is noted. However, it is widely accepted that what fuel was left burned off within 5 minutes of impact, as noted in the link above. It is fuel--not wood--it would burn quickly if it were going to burn at all.

As has been said, it seems you tend to ignore facts that don't support your conspiracy theories, then you put up this patriotsquestion911 link like it's going to prove your point. "Patriots" may question 9/11, but intelligent people know how to sort facts from Alex Jones-inspired conspiracy.

I would say that you are ignoring facts--eyewitness accounts of firefighters, people who were there, and even video evidence that an explosion happened in the lobby---far below the impact point. Alex Jones had nothing to do with my link. It was to 700 engineers and architects---are they not intelligent people to you?

In my posts on this subject, I have stated facts ... here's how and why WTC 1 & 2 came down, and here's how and why WTC 7 came down a few hours later. I watched WTC 7 myself. If the conspiracy theories made any sense, I'd give them more credence ... but they don't.

Actually, you have posted your opinion---not facts---I have been the only one to post facts with links. You simply say what the government conspiracy says, and it doesn't hold water.

Sorry.

No comment

#194 | Posted by lunahq7 at 2009-09-11 09:10 PM | Reply | Flag


Bob, yes I did misinterpret what you had written but John B #194 explains what I was now thinking. I don't want to deny justice to anybody touched by 9/11. I don't necessarily think witnesses are lying, I think they are mistaken. Eye witness accounts of fast moving events are more often incorrect than not. What the mind's eye sees isn't necessarily what happened. None of these eye witnesses accounts are coroborated by video, photos, or evidence.

#199 | Posted by AndyB62 at 2009-09-11 09:57 PM | Reply | Flag


I appreciate your candor, but you missed the video showing damage to the lobby. These people weren't delusional---they were not insane---they knew what they saw and they reported it. Do you think they all had the same delusion? To take your point of view, any lawyer should be able to refute any eyewitness acount to a tragedy as--they were all in shock---they didn't know what they saw or heard. That doesn't happen. Fortunately these people have the video to back their claim that there was an explosion in the lobby--far from the impact sites, and before the planes got there.

www.youtube.com

There are many explosions that happen after the planes hit also. Many explosions.

#13 | Posted by goatman

She is adorable--

Can she say Vi-sa?

They are showing a Fox cable special with interviews and just had Ted Olson on--

You'd like that BB...


#13 | Posted by goatman

She is adorable--

Can she say Vi-sa?

Posted by MURPHY at 2009-09-11 10:34 PM | Reply


Why, she is not an illegal is she????

Hubby and I were up and doing the wild thing as the kids were still sleeping and young... ;o)

We had the TV on and KUSI showed the burning of the first tower. I though it was a joke.

It got worse. The 2nd tower and the Pentagon, then PA.

I called my work and they said the building I worked in downtown San Diego was shut down and don't come in.

There was a mediation I was supposed to go to downtown and I called and that was cancelled.

The kids were sent to school for some normalcy for them.


I screamed out NO! when the 1st tower started crashing.

Everything changed that day for me.

I hate AQ and OBL--I want them dead--all of them.

So to go to war in Afghanistan and Iraq to kill them--I am all for.


Chapel--I'll explain--

When they are that adorable--Dads and Grandads hand over the VISA card as soon as they say it.

Get it? lol

:o)


They are showing a Fox cable special with interviews and just had Ted Olson on--

You'd like that BB...

#204 | Posted by MURPHY at 2009-09-11 10:35 PM | Reply | Flag:


I missed it, but you are correct--I would have liked to have seen it. Did he mention the phone calls? What did he say about them if he did mention them.

BTW---what made you think Osama did it since he denied any involvement until just before the 2004 elections? Why did you think he did it for the 3 years before he "confessed"?

OBL was on video braggin about it with the goofy guy who couldn't walk--in the hut. And the guy was having trouble with his turbin.


Olson was talking about the phone call with his wife.



Here--the secretary came in to tell Olson that his wife was on the phone--while she is on the plane.

Start at 4:50 for the King interview.

At the 7:00 mark-- the secretary tells him she is on the phone.

So dig up the secretary to confirm Barbara called him.

www.youtube.com


You are looking foolish with your running amock here.

Do you realize there would need--require --a must--to have over 5000 people in on a plot by the gov't at this magnitude?

Just because there isn't a complete narrative--doesn't mean 9/11 wasn't committed by AQ and pretty much as the 9/11 Commission put out there.

Are there missing pieces--sure--but no conspiracy.


Murphy

You ar using a video of Ted Olson to prove Ted Olson is telling the truth. That's like using the bible to provbe the bible is true. Facts are, the FBI says Olson lid. Facts are there is no record of any call from Barbara Olson to Ted Olson. Facts are you can't make a collect call from a cell phone---for one thing, there is no need. Facts are the plane had no seatback phones in it. Facts are--by your own link--she called him direct before she got on the plane. Facts are--Ted Olson had his own cell phone--if Barbara wanted to talk to him, she would have called his cell phone direct, like she did before she got on the plane. Facts are, Ted Olson changed his story 3 times about the call. Sooooo how do you propose she made the call?

www.youtube.com

How about a link to that video of OBL bragging. Why didn't you post the link with your post? First time blogging?

When Ann Coulter---one of the most respected figures in the Republican party---said about the widows of 9/11 victims, "These broads are millionaires, lionized on TV and in articles about them, reveling in their status as celebrities and stalked by grief-arazzis. I've never seen people enjoying their husbands' deaths so much," why wasn't she banished into obscurity?

I was in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. I'd chartered down the day before to do an emergency repair at a customer's plant. (auto parts manufacturers measure downtime in thousands per minute) I'd released the charter not knowing how long things would take, so the plant manager drove me to CR, and I intended to catch a commercial flight the next morning. Needless to say, that didn't happen.

I got to the airport and rented one of the last cars available. Then I took off on the 5.5 hour drive back to Minneapolis. I listened to radio coverage the whole way, becoming more and more horrified.

Since I'd cut across the boondocks to save a 200-mile jaunt via the Interstate, I was out of cell coverage until almost the Minnesota border. Seconds after I got a signal back, the phone rang. Our national sales manager screamed "DON'T TURN IN THAT CAR!!" He was in Minneapolis and needed to get back to Rochester, NY. There was not a rental car to be had in the Twin Cities.

In retrospect, listening to 5+ hours of radio coverage wasn't the smartest thing to do. It was weeks before I could sleep through the night.

I've never seen people enjoying their husbands' deaths so much," why wasn't she banished into obscurity?

#212 | Posted by Timex at 2009-09-12 04:50 AM | Reply | Flag

She wasn't a liberal. Republicans are party over country. As long as Coulter spouts the republican line, she can say anything she likes and still hold vast republican support.

"one of the most respected figures in the Republican party"

Gee TIMEX, you don't think much of Republicans.
Gotta agree with you though.

I was inspecting the inside of a pressure vessel in a chemical plant being repaired in the shop. My long time friend sticks his head in and says "get out and come look at this"

A plane just hit the first tower and he told me that "Jets don't hit buildings" He said within minutes of the first building that "this was
terrorism for sure."
We're surrounded by olifins plants and refinerys that have mass storages of explosive and highly flamable materials so naturally we were a tad nervous that something may aimed at the petrochemical industry


On Sep 11th I was an M.I. operator with the 82nd Abn Div. I was on leave visiting family and friends. The night prior I had been partying with my high school friends. One of them asked me if I thought I would ever go to war. That question was answered for us.

The next day I was a bit hung over. My BN Commander called me told me to turn on the television. The momment I saw the second plane hit the WTC I knew we were at war. Civilian aircraft was shut down for obvious reasons but I was on the next C1-41 flying to Bragg.

After that it was from the 82nd ABN DIV to the 173rd ABN BDE in Vicenza Italy. Deployments to Afghanistan and Iraq.

My students and I were at recess, Texas time. By 1 pm the school was empty...all the parents had taken their kids home. Had any stayed we, the teachers, would have stayed with them of course, but the parents..and us..were scared.

Had any stayed we, the teachers, would have stayed with them of course, but the parents..and us..were scared.
#218 | Posted by suzycreamcheese

A lot of NYC schoolchildren were stuck that day; many take public transportation to get to school. I'm not sure how they got home or how long it took for them to get home. Such a crazy day.

I was at home wasting time on the web. I posted the first story on the community blog MetaFilter about the attacks, and I wrote that a plane struck the World Trade Center in Chicago.

The Drudge Retort was on vacation at that time and would not start as a news community site for another three years.

I was on the phone with one of Dodi's ex-girlfriends when it happened (before he was murdered in Paris while with Di) .

She said she had to go to Sam's Club for supplies since they were obviously going into Iraq next (it was Afghanistan) & she needed supplies for her kids to weather the coming warstorm...

Here for BB--



www.youtube.com

OBL video bragging he did 9/11

I know you have seen this before.

Notice how all the noses are different in each "Bin Laden" tape. What utter and complete poppycock. bwhahahahahahhaha too fucking funny.

Larry

I was in a corner store, watching it on TV and thinking, "Thanks, CIA and Mossad".

Pissedoff-
That's because have been steeped in reactionary idiocy and flogged by demagogues for so long, you have internalized it.

I live in the Nebraska, so I'm pretty far removed from NYC. I was working evening shifts at the time, and my wife just about to leave for work that morning when she woke me up and said an airplane hit the WTC. We had a TV in our bedroom, which I turned on immediately. My eyes cleared just in time to see the second plane hit the other tower.

My wife had to go to work that day, so I sat in front of the TV all day until 2 when I had to go to work. A co-worker brought in a small TV that day and I got no work done my entire shift.

If I recall correctly, that was when cable news channels started running crawls on a constant basis.

Pissedoff-
That's because have been steeped in reactionary idiocy and flogged by demagogues for so long, you have internalized it.

Is THAT what it is? Well, perhaps you could explain the Israelis who were caught filming the event from the Jersey side of the river and dancing and high-fiving each other as it went down, and who told TV reporters back in Israel that they were there to record the event.

Take your time, please.

I was placing the charges in the WTC towers while my co-conspirators were projecting a hologram of jets crashing into the buildings. My international zionist/fascist masters commanded us to do this. We seek world government via the trilateral commission, the freemasons and vatican.


Examine the Bush (Non) Security Policies
...

The saying is the first casualty of war is truth and never was that more true than in the 911 attacks and what the ultimate truths revealed.

And these irrefutable truths supported by irrefutable evidence is that George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and Condoleezza Rice were guilty of the worst case of gross, even criminal negligence with regards to the national security of the United States in the 911 attacks in American history, and second, contrary to the myths put out by the Bush Administration and swallowed whole by the press, 911 could have and should have been prevented.

Did you folks ever find it strange at the time that info that Bin Laden was behind this all came out so quickly?

#20 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine

duh....

I had a kidney stone attack that morning. When I called in sick, my boss told me about the plane crashing into one of the towers. I put TV in time to watch the second crash and the mayhem that followed.

I always tell myself, that if I was working in one of those two towers, my kidney stones would have saved my life.

#25 | Posted by Ray

one of my Zionist buddies was suppose to go to work in one of the towers that morning but he overslept ~ so as he came out of the subway, he saw the first plane hit the tower & he did a u-turn

Here for BB--


www.youtube.com

OBL video bragging he did 9/11

I know you have seen this before.

#222 | Posted by MURPHY

screwed up again ~ murphy! lol


Here is the transcript of what you were not allowed to hear from Osama binLaden's own mouth:

" I was not involved in the September 11 attacks in the United States nor did I have knowledge of the attacks. There exists a government within a government within the United States. The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; to the people who want to make the present century a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity. That secret government must be asked as to who carried out the attacks. ... The American system is totally in control of the Jews, whose first priority is Israel, not the United States." (25

www.viewzone.com

I was in a corner store, watching it on TV and thinking, "Thanks, CIA and Mossad".

#224 | Posted by Pissedoffcabbie at 2009-09-12 09:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

Pissedoff-
That's because have been steeped in reactionary idiocy and flogged by demagogues for so long, you have internalized it.

#225 | Posted by BetelG

self retort Betelg?

A lot of NYC schoolchildren were stuck that day; many take public transportation to get to school. I'm not sure how they got home or how long it took for them to get home. Such a crazy day.

#219 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine

my brother couldn't phone out...& to be honest I really wasn't sure if his business might have taken him to the WTC that day, so it was a long wait until an email came from him late that afternoon/early evening saying he was okay.

The same happened to him when the 35w bridge went out here in Minneapolis several years back...he phoned in from japan or somewhere to check on me that nite after getting off the plane.

...Then my wife got a colleague on the phone who told her that everybody rushed in to the hospital ready for the injured to start pouring in.

Nobody came.


Posted by Hagbard_Celine


Just now read your personal story. So far away and so alone being in a foreign country at the time it happened must have made you feel even more helpless. And it happening in New York, your home state, must have made it even worse. Horrible day. So many poignant stories. To me as I watched it on television with the rest of our nation it seemed almost surreal.

It's just a small thing, but what I remember most is one person after another would come up to this one tv camera and hold up a picture of a family member, friend, loved one and say "This person is my father (or mother, or husband, or son, etc.) and we haven't heard from them. Please, if you see them tell them to call their family so we know they are okay." Then they added the photo to a big fence that held so many other photos of missing people.

But you, the viewer, with the crumbled buildings in the background, knew they were dead and they would never be calling home. Really hit you hard.

duh....
#230 | Posted by Bani

just trying to be subtle, Bani.

"And it happening in New York, your home state, must have made it even worse."

I'm a ten minute ride downtown on the 1 train to WTC, Lisa.

Lower Manhattan/Battery Park is my backyard more than Central Park ever could be. It was much more than an assault on my state identity.

My parents house had burned nearly to the ground on Sunday the 9th while they were sleeping. They made it out alive by the skin of their teeth. I remember having to meet with the insurance guy on the 11th. I was showering and my girl came in and told me that we had just been attacked. She was talking to a friend of hers on the phone who had a track record of not being the most accurate (and playing some pretty awful pranks). I told her 'no way'. She left, came back after turning on the tv and confirmed it. I rinsed off, grabbed my cellphone and couldnt get a call through. I then grabbed by pistol (H&K USP 45) and put it in my backpack and made my way to my parents. I took the gun not knowing what was happening. Needless to say, it was never needed and my parents had a great policy that covered everything and then some. Also, the cat was out for the night so it lived and amazingly, the picture albums were unscathed.


Here for BB--

www.youtube.com

OBL video bragging he did 9/11


I know you have seen this before.

#222 | Posted by MURPHY at 2009-09-12 05:31 PM | Reply | Flag


Sorry for the delay. The question was---what made you think it was OBL before he "confessed" in 2004. What made you think he did it for the three years before he "confessed" just before the 2004 elections. The video you link to---while purporting to have been made on 11/09/01, was not released until 2006 after the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui---alomost 2 year after OBL "confessed" in 2004. You didn't see that video until 2006---the question---again---was what made you think OBL did it for the 3 years until his "confession in 2004.

The second thing about your video, is that it has many detractors as shown in Bani's #232 post. There is doubt as to it being OBL. Thee are other links that cast doubt on this video, and can easily be posted--but what's the point of doing that---the point is that you didn't use this video before 2004---so what made you think it was him before that time?

As it stands, you have failed to show any credible link to OBL before 2004---you have not answered how you think Barbara Olson made those phone calls---and you have failed to address the facts of explosions in the WTC basement before the planes got there, and the many explosions after they hit the towers.

There is better refutation for your link than there is for the Smokestack on the moon, which relies on a smudge appearing--moving--and fading---on a still picture in less than 1/6th second. I know many more people believe in the magic smudge than they do the video at face value---just like I'm sure you think you saw that video before 2006--facts are you didn't see that video before 2006, and smudges don't magically appear and disappear off of still pictures.

"...And it happening in New York, your home state, must have made it even worse...."

- Califchris"


I'm a ten minute ride downtown on the 1 train to WTC, Lisa

#237 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2009-09-13 01:47 PM


I wrote #235, not Lisa.


I'm an idiot.

I apologize and I was not intending to be antagonistic with you.

#241 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2009-09-14 01:36 PM | Reply | Flag: Pussy Librul!

I was at work that morning when a co-worker came in and said it appeared New York was under attack. Since he was a known kidder, I thought he was joking. I walked into the conference room just in time to see the second tower hit. I watched for a while, then realized I had to go home, had to be with my family, now. I rushed out of the office to pick up my 2-year-old daughter at day care. She was delighted to see me at such an odd hour until she realized that an early departure would deprive her of her favorite activity - lunch - and then she started to cry. So I sat with her at her little table and her little bench and 20 other oblivious, happy children in tiny benches, and I let her devour whatever goodies the day care had in store.

"Why you come get me, Daddy?" she asked as we walked out of the room.

"Oh, Daddy just thought it would be nice to be home with you today," I said. We stepped out into the bright sunshine and drove home in silence. I couldn't think of another word to say.

Still chokes me up.

#73 - Powerful image, Yodar. Thanks for that.

Pussy Librul!
#242 | Posted by Corky

:-O !!!

Wow, bob.

"Since US air travel was shut down, I had to wait for my boss to get to Lima..."

#89 Hag

one my old long time roommates moved to Lima several years back & came back last fall in final stages of a then still undiagnosed rare diseased & was being fed by tubes while then weighing less than 90 lbs of flesh.

She had been at the scene of the earthquake & had seen & heard of UFO's coming out of it, too!

SHe still feels to this day the earthquake released some old diseases (from Atlantean times?). The disease she had was finally diagnosed by a Dermatology specialist of which less than a 1000 people on the planet so far have been diagnosed as having it & is cured rapidly by using steriods!

Go figure...

did u see #247 ~ Hag?

I'm totally lost, bani.

And the ringing in my ears began in the cradle.

Well this fellow's daughter was playing a terrific alto recorder on stage in my dreams this early morning...

www.davidyoungmusic.com

"The disease she had was finally diagnosed by a Dermatology specialist of which less than a 1000 people on the planet so far have been diagnosed as having it & is cured rapidly by using steriods!"

Not the MMS protocol?

Go figure.

Post a comment
Comments are closed for this entry.
Drudge Retort

Home | News | Comments | User Blogs | Nooner | Back Page | RSS Feed | RSS Spec | Copyright 2009 World Readable