#6 | Posted by Bani at 2009-09-05 03:16 PM | Reply | Flag

Excellent post Bani---too bad people with closed minds like Mystery Toy will never see it. I notice how he posts a link to space aliens supporting Bush as a rebuttal. He would allow this attack, and the war to follow because he simply doesn't want to believe anything else, and nothing will dissuade him from ignoring all realities that contradict his views.

Here is a video of Bush on location saying what your link says he says.

Don't you think, had they known in advance what was coming, that they would have had every action Bush took that day scripted out?

They did--you saw the script.

He would have jumped up, taken charge, and made all the "perfect" moves immediately. He would have come off looking like the greatest Commander in Chief in history.

Had Bush done everything perfectly as you suggest, he would have stopped the second plane into the WTC---stopped the plane from hitting the Pentagon, and shot down the PA plane

Instead, he and his entire staff sat there in shock (just like the rest of the nation) and wasted precious moments trying to figure out something--anything--to do.

Someone is attacking your family in their home across town--do you sit there in shock? I don't think so. Do you make up lies about what you were doing when you heard about the attack on your family? I don't think so. See how I answered each of your points? Do the same with the points I made.

Address the fact that Bush lied about 911.

He did not lie. He misspoke. What he saw before going into the classroom is exactly what the rest of the nation saw; the AFTERMATH of the first plane hitting the tower. So many of Bush's critics have commented on his misspeaking, but of course on that day he couldn't possibly have left off the fact that he saw the burning tower, and not the plane hitting it.

Sorry---you are twisting his words. He said he saw the first plane hit---BEFORE HE WENT INTO THE CLASSROOM---there was only one tower hit before he went into the classroom, and there was no video of the plane hitting.

In addition--you didn't respond to the rest of the post that you said "no problem to--let's hear it. That Bush sat there stupified by the attack is ridiculous---to claim his whole staff was stupified is the saddest excuse I have ever heard--even Bush doesn't make suych a claim.

Answer the rest of the post--as you said you would/could.

When Andy Card tells Bush about the second plane, and supposedly says-America is under attack", he doesn't wait for instructions--he says his piece and IMMEDIATELY turns and leaves---and Bush doesn't try to stop him to give him instructions. I say such action proves Card wasn't giving Bush new information--he was merely updating Bush on the progress of the mission. Can anyone imagine any scenario where whatever you were responsible for was attacked, and you would just sit there when informed? A general on a military post is in his office--a major sticks his head in the door and says "General, we are under attack.", and immediately closes the door and walks away. Does that sound like a reasonable scenario to you? Would such a thing ever happen? Don't you think the General would call the major back and start giving orders? Don't you think the major would wait for those orders? If the general were in the classroom with children, do you think he wouldn'y leave that classroom to take care of business? How about you? You are in your living room and one of your kids or a friend comes in and tells you someone is vandalizing your car, and immediately leaves---would you just sit there? Is it humanly possible to do such a thing? I don't think so. Andy Card was updating Bush--not giving him new information. Look how quickly Andy Card leaves after his statement to Bush---he didn't wait for instructions--he KNEW there would be no instructions.

#41 | Posted by hawk at 2009-09-06 10:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

To say Bush "misspoke" about the single most important day of his Presidency is the excuse a child would make. He was very detailed in his description--very detailed that he saw the first plane hit--which was impossible--unless he had prior knowledge.

Hawk

Again--twisting--interpreting-
-whatever--you are avoiding the point. It sounds like you have done ZERO investigation into the attacks of 911---want the clincher? There was no TV that Bush could have seen in the classroom that day before he went in.

Why? What earthly reason would they have to have left him sitting there like an idiot when there was obviously so much do do? The answer is simple. They had no idea what to do.

How did Card know BUSH didn't know what to do? His job was to report. Was he a mind reader, thinking--Well since I don't know what to do--Bush doesn't know what to do either, so I won't wait for a response. Is that what you are saying?

Nothing like this had ever happened in recent history. It took everyone time to decide the proper response. Which is exactly what one would expect if one had no foreknowledge of events.

There were plenty of warning, and the US has plans for every contingency--including hijacked planes before 911. As the link above says--Bush claimed to have implemented these plans immediately--another lie.

Why do you suppose he was against any investigation into 911?

Hawk

Your posts don't show any investigation. You say it was clear what happened that day--I say you can't prove your words. How were Arabs with boxcutters brought into the equation?

As you say--obviously the statement was erroneous--Bush lied about seeing it on a TV, since there was no TV available.Why. Bush lied about seeing the first plane hit. Why? It was the most important day in his Presidency---why lie about it? How could he Misspeak about so many detailed events in that day? They should be burned into his memory. Again, you avoid questions. Again, you avoid investigation---the link was far too big for you to have even glanced at it.

Here is the question you avoided. Let's try again.

How did Card know BUSH didn't know what to do? His job was to report. Was he a mind reader, thinking--Well since I don't know what to do--Bush doesn't know what to do either, so I won't wait for a response. Is that what you are saying?

Because there is very little doubt about what happened that day, therefore no need to investigate.

There is plenty of doubt as to what happened that day, and add another question you avoid...let's try again

I say you can't prove your words. How were Arabs with boxcutters brought into the equation?

Why do you think that NO ONE in goverment, including the current administration, is calling for an investigation?

Fear of assassination? Maybe Obama isn't really in charge---I have always said Bush was just a puppet also. Just because Obama is just as corrupt or as controlled as Bush doesn't mean that the attack wasn't helped along by the US government.

Let's try that other question again.

How did Card know BUSH didn't know what to do? His job was to report. Was he a mind reader, thinking--Well since I don't know what to do--Bush doesn't know what to do either, so I won't wait for a response. Is that what you are saying?

#52 | Posted by hawk at 2009-09-06 11:31 PM | Reply | Flag

Again, simple. Our airport security was far too good to get any other type of weapon aboard an airliner that day. Oh, sure, maybe if you were very lucky, you might get one on board a single plane--it has happened on occasion. But 19? Impossible, and the hijackers knew it.
They also knew that the conventional response to hijackings is to go along with it, since this is the safest course of action. Again, this didn't take into account using the plane as a weapon, but since that had never happened before, that's not the way the passengers and crew were thinking.

Again, you prove you have done no investigation into the most horrific attack on America in the last 50 years.

No--there were no Arabs listed on the flight passenger logs. The Arabs with boxcutters scenario came from Ted Wilson--the then current United States Solicitor General whose wife Barbara Olson was supposedly a passenger on flight 77. He said his wife made collect calls from the plane to his front office---twice. But such calls were impossible for her to make. He lied about his wife making phone calls on the day she died? That seems logical to you?

Hawk

I didn't say there were no terrorists--I said there were no Arab names on the passenger lists

I guess you missed the Ted Olson point.

What a surprise.

Why would he lie about his wife calling him on the day she died?

Pearl Harbor was a complete surprise too---I didn't hear about anyone being so stupified as to not take immediate action.

Do you have any links to any other circumstances anywhere in the world since the beginning of humanity that shows such stupifaction to be "human nature".

"I didn't say there were no terrorists--I said there were no Arab names on the passenger lists"

I'm sorry, I miss the distinction. Who do you think carried this out, Army Rangers?

What makes you think it was Arabs with boxcutters?

"I guess you missed the Ted Olson point."

I didn't miss the Ted Olson point...it was irrelevant to the discussion. I have no idea how it was mistakenly communicated to Olson that his wife had called collect. It doesn't matter if you accept that there were terrorists hijacking planes that day.

Yes, you missed the point completely. No oner "communicated to him" that his wife called. He said he talked to her, and she called him collect--twice. Such calls were impossible for him to have received, or for her to make. There is absolutely no other connection to Arabs with hijackers other than Olsons report. You still haven't read a thing about 911. That really does make you a sheeple you know--no investigation.

"Do you have any links to any other circumstances anywhere in the world since the beginning of humanity that shows such stupifaction to be "human nature"."

Welcome to the world of instant news. No one knows how long it took Roosevelt to react to the Pearl Harbor news because there wasn't a group of reporters in the room filming him when he was told. We aren't talking days here, we're talking minutes. And if you don't think it takes human beings a moment or two to digest completely unexpected and unprecedented news, then you don't understand human nature.

Ever had your house broken into? Would you be too stupified to react? Is that your human nature? How about if you heard someone was setting fire to your car in the parking lot? Would you be too stupified to react? Your concept of human nature is as lacking as your curiousity about 911. You have not read a single owrd of any investigation. You have questioned nothing--you follow the nonsensical government conspiracy BS without the least thought.

And that's been precisely my point from the very beginning. Their reactions were not at all what I would expect from people who knew what was going to happen.

They are exactly the actions of people who knew what was going on. Bush couldn't do anything that would ruin the plan. When he was in that classroom, he already knew about the first plane being hijacked, and he already knew two other planes had been hijacked with one on its way to Washington.--that was half an hour before he got off his ass.

He said he talked to her, and she called him collect--twice. "

I'm sure he did. I'm also sure he didn't answer his own phone, and some secretary somehow used the term "collect".

I guess reading the link was asking too much. He had his own personal cell phone, and his wife called him on it before she took off. She could have called him on his own phone--he would have ansered it himself. But he said she must not have had her cell phone since she called collect. You prove again--no investigation--you have read nothing--you will read nothing

"There is absolutely no other connection to Arabs with hijackers other than Olsons report."

Untrue. The report from the first plane, given by a stewardess talking on an airphone to her home base, reported arabs in the first class cabin with some type of knives. Also, several relatives of the Flight 94 passengers relayed similar reports from them.

Link? You see when I make a statement--I provide links. How about a link to prove your point?

"Ever had your house broken into? Would you be too stupified to react? Is that your human nature? How about if you heard someone was setting fire to your car in the parking lot? Would you be too stupified to react?"

Perhaps not; but then, those are hardly unexpected or unprecedented events.

How about someone blows up your car? Would you be too stupified to call the cops? How about a plane flies into the house across the street? Would you sit there slack jawed as it burned down?

"Bush couldn't do anything that would ruin the plan."

Not the point. He could have taken decisive action that would make him look presidential (and still not ruin the plan). He didn't.

Such as? What could he have done to look Presidential and still not spoilk the plan?

"That really does make you a sheeple you know--no investigation."

Don't start with personal insults, please...there has been no need for investigation because nothing offered by the comspiracy theories are even remotely more likely than the explanations given.

It wasn't a personal insult--it is simple fact. You have read nothing--you have done absolutley no investigation into 911, and you refuse to look at any links. That is a sheeple. That is the definition. You have to deal with the facts--you have to investigate---you have to read both sides to avoid the label. Nothing personal.

#67 | Posted by hawk at 2009-09-07 01:14 AM | Reply | Flag:

Is it more conceivable that they hijacked a plane, hid it away, and then fired a missile at the building?

#66 | Posted by hawk at 2009-09-07 12:59 AM | Reply | Flag

There may not have been a flight 77--it may never have existed except on paper. Barbara Olson was the only passenger on the flight to make a call. Ted Olson told her about all the other planes being flown into the WTC. Her plane was full of military personal--I doubt they wouldn't have tried to take over the plane after hearing the news of the other planes. I would post a link to the passenger list--but you wouldn't look at it either.

Hawk

You believe flight 77 existed because you were told it existed. That it may not have existed is a possiblity. Both sides of a question should be looked at for a fair evaluation. You have proven time and time again that you refuse to look at anything that may disrupr your preconceived ideas. You have been asked for links to prove your assertions about Arabs--and you can't even do that. You are close minded, you should accept that simple fact at least.

Here is evidence flight 77 may not have existed.

Buffalo chip, this would be really funny except morons like you get to sit on juries and decide OJ was a pacifist.
Get medical help, dude. You are certified, not merely certifiable.

#70 | Posted by Diablo at 2009-09-07 01:25 AM | Reply | Flag:

I look at all the evidence--I don't ignore reality---OJ was guilty. You would have been a good candidate for the OJ jury--if it was Bush on trial instead of OJ with the same evidence against Bush. The way you twist reality to protect the treasonous, cocksucking, son of a pedophile should be illegal

Perhaps had Clinton and Bush authorized warrantless wire taps prior to 9/11 they could have stopped it from happening. But then again that would have violated the civil rights of Islamic terrorists and that would have been wrong according to the left

#75 | Posted by bph320 at 2009-09-07 02:31 AM | Reply | Flag

They had plenty of warnings--accurate warnings about planes being used as weapons. They ignored them. Maybe we should give up all freedoms to protect pants pissers such as yourself. The phone tapping was an option for all calls--not just arabs. Start your own country and do without the right to privacy. As for me--if having freedom costs me my life--at least I died free, not like some sheep shivering with fear. Like you.

#78 | Posted by r_zeitgeist at 2009-09-07 02:40 AM | Reply | Flag: Self Retorting Retort

Has anyone ever been able to reason with r_zeitgeist? Anyone???? How about anyone seeing a post from him with a shred of logic??? Anyone???

#85 | Posted by Twinpac at 2009-09-07 03:27 AM | Reply | Flag:

I back my claims with links. This thread is full of claims I have made and the links to back my words---which do you dispute? Then back your words with your links. Hawk couldn't back his words with links like I do--how about yourself. Put up or shut up.

Waiting on you.

;-)

Twinpac

You make a claim and can't back it. It doesn't take all night to post a link that disproves a point I have made. But, you responded in the way I expected. The same way as Hawk. You can't back your words, and don't have the integrity to shut up.

Twinpac

Who could possibly give a flying fart about your opinions? You have spent the last hour flapping your gums when you could have made a point of some kind, but chose to be nothing more than a simple troll--much like r_zeitgeist ---if there is a pot/kettle situation going on here, I suggest you are one of the kitchen containers. Your intelligence is over shadowed by your shoe size. Run along boy.

Twinpac,
seniority 30.
must be easy pickens against some of these folks.

(smile)

#97 | Posted by bruceaz at 2009-09-07 04:46 AM | Reply | Flag:

Twinpac---Joined 2005/05/24

Buffalo_Bob---Joined 2005/05/28

There was about a month when you could still post as visitor before sign up was mandatory--she just signed up a little before I did, and seniority doesn't mean shit. Either you can back your words or you can't---she can't.

Give it your best shot, Lugnut.

You da' man!

#104 | Posted by Twinpac at 2009-09-07 04:55 AM | Reply | Flag

Already been done.

I back my claims with links. This thread is full of claims I have made and the links to back my words---which do you dispute? Then back your words with your links. Hawk couldn't back his words with links like I do--how about yourself. Put up or shut up.

Waiting on you.

;-)

#87 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2009-09-07 03:37 AM | Reply | Flag:

Bruce AZ

Who ever has the facts should be able to make short work of anyone, no matter the seniority. Twinpac simply makes statements with no foundation, thinking her opinion is a valid source of facts.

BOB

My opinion is a valid source of my opinion.

My God but you're dense.

#120 | Posted by Twinpac at 2009-09-07 05:31 AM | Reply | Flag:

I agree that your opinion is a valid source of your opinion. I never said otherwise---Your strawman is exceptionally weak. I said your opinion was not a valid source of facts. Can you tell the difference between a fact and an opinion?

Ok Bob,Seems like you have worse antagonist than her though

#121 | Posted by bruceaz at 2009-09-07 05:31 AM | Reply | Flag

True enough, but you notice that she attacked first, comparing me to the troll r_zeitgeist--then couldn't back her words.

You would have to have over 5000 people involved in a gov't inside job of this magnitude.

Ain't true.

#142 | Posted by MURPHY at 2009-09-07 09:19 PM | Reply | Flag

Less than ten people would be necessary. I saw that special--they should have put wings and weights on the wings to simulate the engines, had some truther engineers there to verify the materials, then shot it close to the ground to see what the ground effect would be, and then have two empty spools of cable still sitting upright next to the hole where jet blast from a 500 mile and hour jet just went through secondes before---then release the picture of the plane hitting the Pentagon, and I'll believe you--so would the majority of Americans--so far, you are the one who is nuts--at least as far as the majority of Americans are concerned.

#146 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2009-09-08 09:29 AM | Reply | Flag:

What exactly about Murphy's link did you find compelling? What fact from Murphy's link confirmed your belief that the Government Conspiracy Theory is the correct scenario? I doubt you've ever spent a second in any investigation of 911.

#154 | Posted by Bani at 2009-09-08 02:14 PM | Reply | Flag

I agree---Bush didn't have the look of a horrified bystander shocked at the viciousness of the attack--he had the look of someone thinking---"This could be my ASS."

There should be no questions about what happened on 911. None--zero. To say that the camera that only takes 1 picture a second was the only camera in use ourside of the Pentagon is not only foolish---it is insane. That the government was not only aware of other civilian cameras focused on the Pentagon in one way or another is scary enough, but to have them showing up and confiscating the tape from those cameras before the fire engines showed up is really frightening. The only thing that would have been more conclusive of a government cover up would be if they had shown up to take the tapes BEFORE the plane showed up.

#158 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2009-09-08 02:37 PM | Reply | Flag He who smelt it dealt it.

The thought that a sitting US president is the one who actually attacked the WTC in 2001 is so retarded that Beefers has to ask how you hold a job with an IQ that low?

No one said a sitting President attacked anything. It seems Beefers has a reading problem. What was said is that Bush knew of the attack, and let it happen. It was also said Bush had nothing to do with planning anything. Reading is FUNdamental--take a course.

Think about how big that conspiracy would have to be.... Thousands of people covering up for old GW.... We have our most sensitive secrets printed in the New York Times but those same thousands of people are going to give old GW a pass....

Nope--all they had to do was their job, just like they did every day. Few people would have to know---Card--Bush--Cheney--
Silverstein---and the 4 or 5 people who set the charges in the WTC over several monthss normal. Everyone else would just be doing their duty. Who else would have to know?

Not to mention the current administration..... Are they soooooooooooooooo stupid that they don't know what you folks here seem to know?

Maybe they figure like Ford after Nixon--best to let the country move on--heal the wounds---but just like Nixon, the wounds won't heal without all questions being answered.

maybe we should get those idiots the hell out of the white house and put some of you special people in there.... You seem to have figured out this mystery of 9/11...

Not at all--that's why we are asking questions--we don't have it figure out---we just know that what has been said so far has many faults. But I would have the mystery figured out sooner or later. I would have photos released of the plane that hit the Pentagon---I would have a full investigation into the structural failure of the Towers and WTC7---I would have Bush, Cheney, Card, and Silverstein all testifying under oath, and I would have them all on lie detectors, voice stress analyzers, and waterboarded to make sure they weren't lying.

The whole time we all here in America thought it was terrorists working for Bin Laden..... Maybe you should call the white house and let them in on your secret.... Or are you folks covering for GW too? Look at that..... The conspiracy grows here on the DR....

It was terrorists--no one is questioning that---the question is---which terrorists are to blame. What makes you think it was bin Laden? The "confession" just before the 2004 election? What made you think it was him for the 3 years before that? Let's hear your answer.

#161 | Posted by beefers at 2009-09-08 03:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

Na.... That would be the first Bin Laden tape just after 9/11. That confession was enough for me.... The rest of your post is just a bunch of Bush hating time wasting dribble.....

I must have missed that one---how about a LINK? The word you seek is DRIVEL. DRIBBLE is something you do with a basketball, and if you were thinking of water coming out of the mouth---the word is DROOL.

OK Bush was in on 9/11 so he could steal all the oil...... But where the hell is all the oil?

I never said Bush was in it for the oil. Bush was probably in it to stay alive. But the motivating factor was not oil--it was money. Look at all the money Halliburton made just as ONE for instance---who was a major player in Halliburton close to Bush?

And your remark about Maybe they figure like Ford after Nixon--best to let the country move on--heal the wounds---but just like Nixon, the wounds won't heal without all questions being answered. well isn't that convenient.... You have an answer for everything too.......

How about that---too bad the same can't be said for you. Don't forget that bin Laden confession just after 911. Show me the LINK ;-)

The entire Bush 9/11 thing is looney toones..... If Bush knew then Clinton knew 9 months before him.... Clinton would have never allowed Bush to pull that off.....

Clinton never got reports of Arabs learing to fly, or reports of bin Laden planning attacks in America. Clinton never told an FBI agent reporting specific activites that he had "covered his ass" and basically to fuck off. When Clinton sent a cruise missle after bin Laden, people like you howled like banshees.

I keep sayng it here on the DR because I feel you people are in fact STUCK ON STUPID.... But... Your guy has been in office for nine months now.... You're all STILL TRYING TO BEAT BUSH! Because YOUR GUY SUCKS SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO BAD!

Deflection--not worth the effort---Let's see that bin Laden confession. Waiting on you.

;-)

#165 | Posted by beefers at 2009-09-08 04:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

#168 | Posted by DavetheWave at 2009-09-08 06:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

Nice links--to NOTHING. Try to figure out how to get links to pictures. Fukeeng DumMy.

#173 | Posted by wisgod at 2009-09-08 08:12 PM | Reply | Flag

Maybe you should have shot his ass---OOPPSS guns are illegal in your State. The State of Idiocy.

Guns are illegal in Wisconsin, so I doubt I'll ever run into someone carrying one. Ain't that how it works in Leftyville?
#429 | Posted by W is God at 2009-08-31 08:01 PM | Reply | Flag

Now how about you post some whacky shit I said about car antennas---seems you are the only shipdit claiming their superiority over firearms within reach.

Waiting on you.

;-)

Looks like BEEFERS is still looking for that bin Laden confession---maybe he can find his sanity while searching.

So how hot was it to still be molten after WEEKS on the cold ground? You do know that the normal temp of the ground down there where their basement was is about 50F.

#175 | Posted by Sniper at 2009-09-08 09:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

Facts are facts Sniper, no matter how much you would like to ignore reality--the facts ar still facts.

Picture of tower leaning and collapsing on one side first.

#170 | Posted by HopeyChangey at 2009-09-08 07:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

Excellent picture. Kind of disproves the "Pancake Theory" wouldn't you say? That's an enormous weight moving in one direction--it should have kept going in that direction, and ALL the weight was on one side of the building, and ZERO weight on the other side of the building---what do you suppose straightened it out so that it fell straight down?