Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs

Boeing (BA) CEO Jim McNerney is eager to move the company to China. Whether moving Boeing to China means shifting its headquarters from Chicago to Beijing is up in the air. But Boeing already has $600 million in supplier partnerships with China -- such as a deal with Shenyang Aircraft Corporation to build an assembly for the 787's vertical fin.

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If Boeing moves out of Seattle, they will have a revolt on their hands.

I can't think of any problems with them moving to China (Sarcasm)

Here's a link to Boeing's own web site, listing all the things they make:

www.boeing.com

You might notice they build a number of weapon systems, as well as the aircraft that deliver them, as well as state of the art satellite technology.

If Boeing moves out of Seattle, they will have a revolt on their hands.

#1 | Posted by dxlingr at 2009-09-02 01:34 PM


There will be quite a few people here in Chicago, that will be upset too.

Chicago, and the State of Illinois gave them all kinds of money through tax breaks, to get them to move their headquarters here.

In a little while, China is coming out with it's own range of commercial passenger jets.

Before they turn Boeing and Airbus into a fading memory, Boeing figured it should be more involved in the rapidly growing Chinese aviation industry.

That is the only way to survive this juggernaut.

Chicago, and the State of Illinois gave them all kinds of money through tax breaks, to get them to move their headquarters here.


In China they will get free electricity. Who needs tax breaks?

China's big jet company (like Boeing and Airbus):

www.youtube.com


China's first commercial jet:

www.youtube.com


Super-jumbo's to come in the future.

Oh sorry... here is the correct link.


China's first commercial jet:

www.youtube.com

Much more in China's commercial aviation industry, including an order for 25 Chinese jets sold to US.

forum.pakistanidefence.com

So basically, China is where all the action is at.

Either you are in... or out.


So basically, China is where all the action is at.

Either you are in... or out.

#9 | Posted by Tosser

This is an absurd notion. You don't need to build planes in China to sell to the Chinese. Besides, the more you build in China the more of your innovations that will mysteriously find their way into Chinese made products.
I think this CEO has low-wage fever. I worked for a company that had a CEO like that once. Pissed away millions of the company's dollars trying to get design centers started in India and China. Hired thousands of 'warm bodies' (while laying off people in the US) that got nothing done unless we sent people over there to help them out. He's no longer CEO. He destroyed the company because of his (and Wall st.'s) low-wage fever.

You don't need to build planes in China to sell to the Chinese.


Lower production costs. Far lower.


Besides, the more you build in China the more of your innovations that will mysteriously find their way into Chinese made products.


LOL.. yeah that's true-ish.... they are naughty boys and girls.

Me Chinese
Me play joke
Me put peepee
In your coke.

Me Pakistani
Me play joke
Me put peepee
In your coke.
So no American takes chance to eat
Hanifia burger with hunter beef : )

So no American takes chance to eat
Hanifia burger with hunter beef : )


LOL...

Seriously though, what is the difference between Chinese and Japanese?

Japanese guard their tech very jealously. They never share.

Chinese always share. They want your tech and they don't care if you take theirs. They don't have the same concept of "that's mine and this is yours"... communism took that outta them.

They are my kinda folks.

If any American company wants to do business with China, it should keep this in mind.

Share everything and they will be happy to share their profits with you.

They always share. They believe that people are stronger when they stick together.

Individualism sucks.

If American companies are smart, they will survive the Chinese aviation industry by becoming part of it.

What will Airbus do? Stick-up-their-ass Europeans and their stupid national pride with their heavily subsidized airplanes will never do deals with China.

They are dead.

Airbus will turn into Asian pig rodeo.

www.youtube.com

"In a little while, China is coming out with it's own range of commercial passenger jets."

Given the quality of Chinese products, I'm not looking forward to getting into one of these pieces of shit. But I may not have a choice in a few years....

"They always share. They believe that people are stronger when they stick together."

When it comes to us, they mostly steal - particularly technology and intellectual property such as movies and music.



Given the quality of Chinese products,


Quality is perfect. It is not their fault that Americans import only the low-quality cheap stuff from China.


and intellectual property such as movies and music.


China is still a communist country and communists don't believe in intellectual property.

"You don't need to build planes in China to sell to the Chinese."

Once they get going with their own they will prevent any competitive products from entering their markets. Americans are the dumbest human beings on the planet to allow our economy to be shipped, piece by piece to China. Corporate CEOs who have done all the outsourcing should face firing squads. If Chinese CEOs tried to do the same thing they would.

When will Americans wake up to the FACT that outsourcing is treason???

BTW, doesn't Boeing build many or our military aircraft. ARe we going to let the Chinese build those too??? The Greatest Generation is collectively rolling over in their graves.

"China is still a communist country and communists don't believe in intellectual property."

They do if it is Chinese property. They just don't recognize our property rights because it isn't convenient for them. They have zero ethics in business.

BTW, doesn't Boeing build many or our military aircraft. ARe we going to let the Chinese build those too??? The Greatest Generation is collectively rolling over in their graves.

#21 | Posted by danni at 2009-09-02 03:13 PM


They sure do.

I put this link in post #2 above, just take a look at all the stuff they build:

www.boeing.com

Can't help but think that even if we hold back on the military hardware, that a lot of the technology will still get used overseas on other projects.

They believe that people are stronger when they stick together.


Individualism sucks.

#15 | Posted by Tosser at 2009-09-02 02:45 PM | Reply


Is that why they encourage people to gather in protest? Is that why they let collecxtive voices be heard?

You're a retard.

You know how the righties always whine...."but you won't see this story on the librul news media"....and now I'm wondering when we will be hearing the big networks talk about this....BTW....Boeing should be forced by the Pentagon to throw this CEO out immediately. It's a matter of national security.

"Quality is perfect. It is not their fault that Americans import only the low-quality cheap stuff from China."

LOL

"China is still a communist country and communists don't believe in intellectual property."

If that were true then why would they be selling what they've stolen rather than giving it away?


I work for this company and this is the first I have heard of it. My bet is that it's not true but you never know.

Danni, due to export and ITAR regulations there is no chance that the Chineese would be building any of our military aircraft in the forseeable future. Oboma would really have to screw up for that to happen.

You're a retard.


Meanwhile, you are a ChairPoodle beating on his little Poodle-Pud, getting all excited by things that are beyond your understanding.

If that were true then why would they be selling what they've stolen rather than giving it away?


Everyone's got to make a living somehow....


It's very charming the way you guys always make borders seem relevant.

There is no US and there is no China, there is only Boeing.

Chinese always share. They want your tech and they don't care if you take theirs. They don't have the same concept of "that's mine and this is yours"... communism took that outta them.


They are my kinda folks.


If any American company wants to do business with China, it should keep this in mind.

#14 | Posted by Tosser at 2009-09-02 02:43 PM | Reply |

LOL sharing? Where I come from its called trading. They ain't giving that shit away son.

I have a business that potentially will do business with China but I'm sure not into being a buddy.

I'd rather deal with Taiwan or Korea.

We can fix this by an immediate, significant increase in their corporate taxes and by taxing their foreign profits even when they reinvest in a foreign country and don't return them to the U.S.

- Obama

Those Boeing 787's give off a lot of greenhouse gases so Barry doesn't care if they move the 787 to China and besides he has some good ideas for "green planes". The model I saw the passengers stuck their arms out the windows and flapped.

This is what happens when Washington sells China our debt. Demopubs and Repocrats should be f*cking shot for this stuff.

Beef. It's what's for dinner.

More like pork, briwo. I mean we get porked.

"Those Boeing 787's give off a lot of greenhouse gases so Barry doesn't care if they move the 787 to China"

Ouch!!

That comment must have hurt Boeing stock what with the "Dreamliner" being the the marketing model of 'fuel efficient' jetliners.

Well, unless FWT's opinion don't matter much...

They big boys built this country and they can damned sure tear it down. They don't want to hear about no stinkin' unions. They want dirt cheap labor and the hell with the rest of us.

China loves it. The sooner they get all our technology, the sooner they can harvest the rest of our organs.

This is going to hurt Wichita if this happens. Bunch of greedy fuckers if You ask Me. We need to rebuild our manufgacturing base or else we might as well kiss our grand Country goodbye. IF it's not already dead and we just don't know it yet.

Larry

"This is what happens when Washington sells China our debt."

That is completely bull shit. This has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that China holds less than one trillion dollars of U.S. debt. Boeing is a corporation not owned by the government. You are just a talking point repeater.

Boeing moving to China ... and this is not another thread from The Onion!!! Just like 10 years ago when Ericcson CEO wanted to move out of Sweden. Didn't happen then, won't happen now.

Crisis


We can fix this by an immediate, significant increase in their corporate taxes and by taxing their foreign profits even when they reinvest in a foreign country and don't return them to the U.S.


- Obama

#33 | Posted by Redman

Ain't that the truth! They look at business as the enemy. Why should business look at the government any different? Government looks at us like we're here to serve them. They can use that big stick but business don't have to stand there after they get hit over and over. Only a fool would build a business when the Dem's are saying out in the open that they want to take all the profits. They can move out of the range of the stick.

"Ain't that the truth!"

So you seem to think that we through our government shouldn't use tax policy to prevent outsourcing???
I guess you think that China wouldn't do such a thing or much more draconian things to prevent their industry from leaving. Grow up. We will only have a successful economy until we make it less profitable to forget what country created the opportunity in the first place. These POS that oursource American jobs should be viewed as the traitors they are. They destroy America with every job they send overseas. Benedict Arnold was a better American than they are.

Given the quality of Chinese products, I'm not looking forward to getting into one of these pieces of shit.

#18 | Posted by Sully

Once upon a time...

"Given the quality of Japanese products, I'm not looking forward to getting into one of these pieces of shit." (more specifically aimed at Japanese cars)

Or

"Given the quality of Korean products, I'm not looking forward to getting into one of these pieces of shit."

Though through the 70s, 80s, and 90s:

"Given the quality of American products, I'm not looking forward to getting into one of these pieces of shit." (more specifically aimed at American cars)

Not everything that is manufactured in China is shit.

Not everything manufactured in the US is of high quality.

You get what you pay for.

Lesson: Don't buy your power tools at Harbor Freight. There truly is the product of Chinese crapufacturing.

These POS that oursource American jobs should be viewed as the traitors they are. They destroy America with every job they send overseas. Benedict Arnold was a better American than they are.

#44 | Posted by danni

Should those who purchase products made overseas be also considered traitors?

The part that should really scare everyone about Boeing taking their operations out of the country is, that the manufacturing of commercial aircraft is a MAJOR export of our economy.

People worry about losing automobile manufacturing, but the loss of Boeing would be devastating to the GDP.

Should those who purchase products made overseas be also considered traitors?

Posted by ZOT at 2009-09-03 09:13 AM | Reply

Not if You have no choice. I'd dearly love top purchase American made Clothing. I can't and I can't walk around naked so what am I to do Zot??

Larry

Should those who purchase products made overseas be also considered traitors?

folks are turning their computers over to see where they are made before answering.

LOL

Many people don't realize that there are like zillions of Chinese companies who don't put their own names on a product... they make it for you as you ordered it.

That means, if you TELL them "I want crap quality... I won't pay for top quality", they will MAKE your stuff crap-quality.

Like put less paint in a pain can. Like use thinner sheet in an A/C.

If Americans are getting crappy Chinese products, it is only because they are either importing the crappy kind or they are telling them to make it cheap and crappy.

However, if you buy known Chinese brands... you will see their quality is excellent.

I drive a Chinese car and I have not regretted it even once, for example.

Not if You have no choice. I'd dearly love top purchase American made Clothing. I can't and I can't walk around naked so what am I to do Zot??


Larry



www.allamericanclothing.com

folks are turning their computers over to see where they are made before answering.


Mine is made in China. LOL

"Should those who purchase products made overseas be also considered traitors?"

I think we are all guilty of buying the products we are offered regardless of place or origin but we will either wise up and do what we need to do to rebuild American manufacturing or we will become a poor nation. Trade deficits aren't my imaginary evil they are the drain through which American wealth is flowing out of America. We either put a stopper in it or face the consequences.

"Mine is made in China. LOL"

And you live in shit hole, I don't want to.

Gee Thanks Eberly they only go upto 48. I need a 52 waist. But at least You found something.

Larry

And you live in shit hole, I don't want to.

Tosser lives in Florida?

I need a 52 waist.

better reduce that otherwise you might start paying a tax on pants that large.

:-(

If they ever start fining people for obesity I may end up blogging from a Prison cell. Sighhhhhhhhhhh

GM is moving their next! Geese whatever happened to keeping jobs in America?


"Mine is made in China. LOL"


And you live in shit hole, I don't want to.

#54 | Posted by danni

The standard of living in China has risen tremendously as they've slowly moved away from Communism and in favor of capitalism.

This country, on the other hand, is taking on an impossible level of socialist debt that will result in a fairly substantial reduction in living standards for future generations as they are forced to pay for it; with interest.

This country, on the other hand, is taking on an impossible level of socialist debt that will result in a fairly substantial reduction in living standards for future generations as they are forced to pay for it; with interest.

Posted by JeffJ at 2009-09-03 09:30 AM | Reply

Stop outsourcing and rebuild the Industrial base or else You won't have an AMerica and You can stop worrying about socialist spending because we won't be a Country anymore.

Larry

"This country, on the other hand, is taking on an impossible level of socialist debt that will result in a fairly substantial reduction in living standards for future generations as they are forced to pay for it; with interest."

Jeff hasn't noticed that as the country takes on more debt the richest 1% has accumulated huge amounts of wealth. Coincidence???? I think not.
TAx cuts for the rich have indebted America so repeal of those same tax cuts will enable us to pay off those debts. All it takes is Americans turning off right wing TV and radio and beginning to think for themselves.

The fastest way to get companies to move to this country and stay would be to eliminate the corporate income tax.

"The model I saw the passengers stuck their arms out the windows and flapped."

FF

Stop outsourcing and rebuild the Industrial base or else You won't have an AMerica and You can stop worrying about socialist spending because we won't be a Country anymore.

and this...

Jeff hasn't noticed that as the country takes on more debt the richest 1% has accumulated huge amounts of wealth. Coincidence???? I think not.
TAx cuts for the rich have indebted America so repeal of those same tax cuts will enable us to pay off those debts. All it takes is Americans turning off right wing TV and radio and beginning to think for themselves.


Stop pissing about right wing radio unless you think all the elected leaders in DC take orders from Rush Limbaugh.

THEY are the ones who are committed the outsourcing.

BOTH PARTIES.

the first step in solving this problem is not worrying about truck drivers who listen to Rush Limbaugh and focus on our congress and POTUS who are committed to the same path they have been on for decades.


.......unless of course you still need to hate just for the sake of hating. In that case, carry on.

"The fastest way to get companies to move to this country and stay would be to eliminate the corporate income tax."

I think a better way would be to penalize them when they want to import their products back into America. Close our market to companies that outsource. I think you'd see a pretty quick end to outsourcing. America has a high tax rate on corporations but most corporation pay little income tax after all the deductions etc. Why should an individual pay more tax than a corporation???

Jeff hasn't noticed that as the country takes on more debt the richest 1% has accumulated huge amounts of wealth. Coincidence???? I think not.
TAx cuts for the rich have indebted America so repeal of those same tax cuts will enable us to pay off those debts.

Causation vs. correlation?

There are 2 sides to the ledger, sweetie:

Revenue and Spending.


I agree with you that post-2000 the GOP was horribly irresponsible in regards to fiscal policy.

It is for this reason, more than any other, that they were voted out.

However, your beloved DNC is poised to more than double that national debt of ALL prior administrations combined. All of them.


All it takes is Americans turning off right wing TV and radio and beginning to think for themselves.

Says the woman who owns every Michael Moore piece of print, including his countless op-ed articles, in electronic copy, print copy and audio book and has every theatrical piece he's ever produced on Beta, VHS, DVD and Blu ray. If any of his stuff exists on 8-track or vinyl, you can bet your ass Danni owns it.

Physician, heal thyself.

"Stop pissing about right wing radio unless you think all the elected leaders in DC take orders from Rush Limbaugh.


THEY are the ones who are committed the outsourcing."

Without right wing propaganda 24/7 on radio and TV our politicians would represent the interests of American citizens instead of American corporations.
Rush Limbaugh and the others are paid millions of dollars because they sell the message that the major corporations want them to sell. Without that propaganda Americans would have demanded an end to outsourcing, etc. a long time ago but these lying traitors have been able to convince enough Americans that any protection of American industry would be "socialism". By the time many Americans wake up it will be too late. The middle class will be a memory but the propaganda will even destroy that memory. they convinced Americans for thirty years that living on credit was the same thing as prosperity.

Rush Limbaugh and the others are paid millions of dollars because they sell the message that the major corporations want them to sell.

nevermind.

like I said, "carry on".

"However, your beloved DNC is poised to more than double that national debt of ALL prior administrations combined. All of them."

Unless we repeal Bush/Reagan tax cuts, then its a whole new ball game. Oh, but the little people who wouldn't even be effected, like Jeff, will scream SOCIALIST! It's the new mantra for morons.

Let's compare and contrast 2 different philosophies:

1:

The fastest way to get companies to move to this country and stay would be to eliminate the corporate income tax.

#63 | Posted by Redman



2:

I think a better way would be to penalize them when they want to import their products back into America. Close our market to companies that outsource.

#66 | Posted by danni



In philosphy #1 we seek to create an environment that is desirable for capital investment, business growth and job creation.

In philosophy #2 we seek demonization, punishment and the raw projection of state-power as a means to an end.


If we break the differences inherent between these 2 philosophies, which has better long-term results...results from a perspective of human nature?

Philosophy #3 We go back to the economic principles that built our country. We do the same things that every other industrial country in the world does. We finally start ignoring the transnational corporations who don't give a crap about our country. We start recognizing that the voices who sold the disastrous policies to average Americans are well paid liars who don't care if you or I live or die. People like Jeff need to wake up to the FACT that the right wing liars think of him as a sucker. They laugh at people like him as they spend their millions.

Unless we repeal Bush/Reagan tax cuts, then its a whole new ball game.

You're right. Let's NOT cut spending. Let's just increase the size of the Fed Govt and everything will get better.

Christ Almighty!

Philosophy #4

take Philosphy #3 and wipe our asses with it because it is nothing more than wishful rhetoric and not a specific plan. Whats more, going backwards and wishing for something is so stupid it barely deserves a response since we now live a global economy.

Unless we repeal Bush/Reagan tax cuts, then its a whole new ball game. Oh, but the little people who wouldn't even be effected, like Jeff, will scream SOCIALIST! It's the new mantra for morons.

#70 | Posted by danni

Go ahead and raise taxes.

Given our impossible debt trajectory, it needs to happen.

However, what ALSO needs to happen is a massive tightening of the spending side of the budgetary-belt.

Quid pro quo.

Increase taxes AND decrease spending.


I suspect you are against such an arrangement.


#68 | Posted by danni


The Hoyer's equivalent of the Psych101-501 definition for "rationalization" consists of a full-color photo of Danni, mullet and all; and a compilation of ALL of her countless posts where she labels ALL who disagree with her as mindless drones who are spoon-fed evil propaganda from Rush Limbaugh.

The Webster's dictionary definition for "hypocrisy" ALSO has a full-color photo replete with all sorts of blatantly contradictory claims, but that is a subject for a different thread.

"Whats more, going backwards and wishing for something is so stupid it barely deserves a response since we now live a global economy."

Like we haven't always lived in a global economy.

People like Jeff need to wake up to the FACT that the right wing liars think of him as a sucker. They laugh at people like him as they spend their millions.

#72 | Posted by danni

Webster's just created a new term:

"Self-retorting condescension"

No text is necessary - it's just a picture of Danni.

Tosser lives in Florida?


No... but Danni wants me to, for some reason.

People like Jeff need to wake up to the FACT that the right wing liars think of him as a sucker. They laugh at people like him as they spend their millions.

the left wingers don't laugh when spending their millions though. they pity poor danni

Meanwhile Jeff, just ask yourself, is America better off now after thirty years of REaganomics and "free trade". You can pretend to have a valid point of view or that my ideas are crazy but you will, at some point, have to recognize the realities of our economy today. Same for you Eberly. You don't present arguments you just try to ridicule those who do, and quite honestly, you fail at it. Some here are quite funny, you're not.

No... but Danni wants me to, for some reason.

#78 | Posted by Tosser

So do I

Like we haven't always lived in a global economy.

#76 | Posted by danni


You are far more ignorant than I realized if you are trying to assert that today's degree of a globalized economy is anything close to that of, say, the '60's.

Today's energy market alone puts a massive bitch-slap to that shit; if that is your actual position.

"No... but Danni wants me to, for some reason."

Actually I know quite a few Pakistani immigrants who do love living here in Florida. HOw many Floridians do you know who have relocated to Pakistan???

Like we haven't always lived in a global economy.

worthless strawman and even nulli and moneywar would agree with me.

not like today.

but again, carry on with the hate.

see the difference is that I accept reality. you won't. you misinterpret that is being in favor of something. I recognize that we need a strong middle class and the offshoring of jobs hurts that endeavor.

I also realize that some people like you will never wake up and focus on solutions.

just keep screaming about rush limbaugh instead.

carry on....

"You are far more ignorant than I realized if you are trying to assert that today's degree of a globalized economy is anything close to that of, say, the '60's."

We wouldn't have allowed it then.

"Today's energy market alone puts a massive bitch-slap to that shit; if that is your actual position."

That's the dumbest thing you've said yet. Sure we import energy but high energy costs actually could be the force that brings back manufacturing to America. When transportation costs become high enough they outweigh the savings of cheap labor. That is why China and India both fear cap and trade and why America needs to not only do cap and trade but base our trade policy on it. If a nation chooses to ignore it then they can't ship their goods to a country that chooses to abide by it.
You wouldn't understand that though Jeff, your right wing talkers haven't told you about it because the transnational corporations don't want you to consider it.

I can't walk around naked so what am I to do Zot??


#48 | Posted by LarryMohr

Move to a nudist colony.

You don't present arguments you just try to ridicule those who do, and quite honestly, you fail at it.

hardly. I trash arguments that need trashing.

You think everything should be about the worker. I can respect that, seriously.

but you are so filled with partisian hate that you are blind to the causes and solutions.

carry on...

"I also realize that some people like you will never wake up and focus on solutions."

But I never read a post where you suggest any. I'm open to any ideas but I don't see you ever present any.

The Webster's dictionary definition for "hypocrisy" ALSO has a full-color photo replete with all sorts of blatantly contradictory claims, but that is a subject for a different thread.

Posted by JeffJ


Monday, August 31, 2009

Cheney: Torture Not Improper or Illegal

www.drudge.com

HOw many Floridians do you know who have relocated to Pakistan???


And how many Floridians do you know who have relocated to Switzerland, which has a far FAR higher standard of living???

Point is, Florida is full of old farts who don't move nowhere. LOL

Americans in general are not an adventurous people.

Sure we import energy but high energy costs actually could be the force that brings back manufacturing to America. When transportation costs become high enough they outweigh the savings of cheap labor.

yeah sure, let's "manufacture" high energy cost specifically for the purpose of bringing manufacturing jobs back to america.

get your congressman on board with that idea.

your ideas are of this nature and you are blaming rush limbaugh?

carry on......

Americans in general are not an adventurous people.

Posted by Tosser

but lately we do like to invade countries with oil, I've noticed!

Americans in general are not an adventurous people.


Case in point, the horror you see in this thread.

China is gonna make commercial jets.... oh the sky is falling! Boeing is going to China... oh the sky is falling!

Get real. The sky isn't falling.

Grand Prairie has a large population of Pakistani people.

Meanwhile Jeff, just ask yourself, is America better off now after thirty years of REaganomics and "free trade". You can pretend to have a valid point of view or that my ideas are crazy but you will, at some point, have to recognize the realities of our economy today.


What I realize is that our government has gone to unfathomable lenghts in terms of protectionism, entitlements and overall command-control and has created a deficit and government debt-problem that is unsustainable by ANY measure.

Our best hope is a massive reversal of government largesse - 2 decades ago.

Our current trajectory is a fiscal impossibility. Yes. That's right. It is fiscally impossible!

This has little to do with your bullshit partisan antics. And quite frankly, the blame-game is beyond ridiculous at this point as both parties are complicit. As for the impossible acceleration of an existing problem that is almost to the point of no-return - it is YOUR party that is taking this shit to astronomically-obscene levels.

Regardless of bullshit partisan blame - we are where we are. What's scarier is that we are going to be in the direction where we are heading. Ray's appocolyptical predictions ARE in fact within reach. NO entity, be it private or public, has EVER sustained the ratio of debt to income levels that loom on our near horizon. It has never once happened. Not in the history of mankind. In your rush to downplay Reagan's role in the collapse of the Soviet Union, you contradict your own arguments (what a shocker). You argue that the USSR was on an unavoidable path toward economic implosion regardless of Reagan's actions. Yet, when similar circumstances are pointed out in this country, you rally around your statist tendencies and lash-out at ALL opposition to your beliefs as brainwashed morons, when, it appears as if you've been brainwashed by power-hungry, socialists jackoffs.

I'm open to any ideas but I don't see you ever present any.

bullshit. you have willfully rejected every idea presented on this issue if it does not involve higher taxes on corporations or wealthy individuals.

the only solution you offer simply implies a larger govt that you believe will somehow benefit you and other workers in this country.

and you think you are offering real solutions? you can't even respond to any idea without mentioning ronald reagan or rush limbaugh in the first fucking sentence.

get real.

"Americans in general are not an adventurous people."

Huh??? I'd say Americans are probably the most adventurous people in the world, well, along with Australians. Our countries are populated by the descendants of brave settlers who crossed oceans, deserts, mountains, etc. and built entire countries from wilderness. We've won world wars, landed on the moon, and now combat the crazies from the Muslim world. Who else even comes close???

I don't see this happening anyway.

Maybe Obama should just buy Boeing and keep it here.

Just kidding. Seriously, I don't see this happening as our govt would do what it takes to keep as much of this here as possible.

bullshit. you have willfully rejected every idea presented on this issue if it does not involve higher taxes on corporations or wealthy individuals.


the only solution you offer simply implies a larger govt that you believe will somehow benefit you and other workers in this country.


and you think you are offering real solutions? you can't even respond to any idea without mentioning ronald reagan or rush limbaugh in the first fucking sentence.


get real.

#96 | Posted by eberly


This is so true.

I have, on more than one occasion, offered up what I felt to be a fairly comprehensive proposal to deal with the problems inherent in our healthcare system. I have done so on several different occasions without response.

Also, the GOP, for all of their inherent bullshit, HAS crafted health-care bills that the DNC has not only killed, but that the media has ignored.

Jeff doesn't recognize that the corresponding evil that is killing America is the power of corporations. They are our politburo with huge power through money to buy influence. Our country isn't dominated by government, our government is dominated by corporate influence.

And Eberly, once again, criticizes me but presents nothing. Me bringing up Reagan and LImbaugh is entirely pertinent, you can't really fix the problems we have without dealing with the major players who created them.

Ebs,

You gonna be around for a few?

If so, I am curious to hear how you would advise Obama, if you had his ear, regarding the pending joint speech he has tenatively scheduled for 1 week from today.

"Americans in general are not an adventurous people."

If by that you mean that when we visit Pakistan we order our meals "without hookworm", then you're right!

lol

Jeff doesn't recognize that the corresponding evil that is killing America is the power of corporations. They are our politburo with huge power through money to buy influence. Our country isn't dominated by government, our government is dominated by corporate influence


If I were in power, these would be among my first domestic issues:

Repeal ethanol mandates
Repeal farm subsidies
Eliminate any government-sponsored green-energy subsidies
Address corporate personhood
Aggressively attack tort-reform - class-action lawsuits being a prime example
Repeal CAFE

You are so much more pleasant to deal with when you don't falsely assume the combination of:

A: You are ten-times smarter than those with whom you disagree

B: That anybody who disagrees with you reaches their contradictory conclusions out of a combination of:
1. Ignorance
2. Brainwashing by an all-powerful Rush Limbaugh
3. Greed - I got mine; fuck everybody else
4. Sheer stupidity


Christ almighty. Do you have a humble bone in your body?

"Address corporate personhood"

Ding, ding, ding!!!

Jeff wins!!!!

I couldn't agree with you more.

Now, try suggesting that to any of the right wing pundits, to any Republican (most Dems too) politician. Ask John Roberts what he thinks of that idea.
That is the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT thing that effects trade, tax, virtually everything our government does.

All the rest of your ideas I would be willing to consider but elimination of corporate personhood needs to come first because without doing that the corporations control the discussion because they own the media. Trust me, if you eliminated that one thing everything else would quickly change.
I am a realist though, they are never going to allow it.

"I'm open to any ideas but I don't see you ever present any." Dannilove

bullshit. you have willfully rejected every idea presented on this issue if it does not involve higher taxes on corporations or wealthy individuals.

the only solution you offer simply implies a larger govt that you believe will somehow benefit you and other workers in this country.

and you think you are offering real solutions? you can't even respond to any idea without mentioning ronald reagan or rush limbaugh in the first fucking sentence.

get real.

#96 | Posted by eberly

damn I agree with EB here...what am i going to do now?

Trust me, if you eliminated that one thing everything else would quickly change.
I am a realist though, they are never going to allow it.

#104 | Posted by danni

How's the FED audit comin?

Danni,

To be honest - I am pretty ignorant when it comes to the whole issue of corporate personhood.

Be it how it came about.

Be its broader implications.

Be its support - yes, it's important to cover the spectrum.


I am dead serious - please direct me to a quality source that supports your derision of this legal construct.

Also, if you know of any, please recommend a counter-point that you respect.


You've harped on this issue on many occasions and it's possible that my ignorance of this issue has precluded a better understanding of your broader philosophy.

Now, my gut tells me that after reading your prescribed bullshit I will continue to slap the mustache off your face *kidding*

Seriously though - I have watched this issue raised and have found myself woefully ignorant on this one.

Please help out this hapless knuckle-dragger - anbody else who is willing to provide substance is encouraged to do so.

"If I were in power, these would be among my first domestic issues:

"Repeal ethanol mandates
Repeal farm subsidies
Eliminate any government-sponsored green-energy subsidies
Address corporate personhood
Aggressively attack tort-reform - class-action lawsuits being a prime example
Repeal CAFE"


but keep Paulson in power since he's a former Princeton Prof like Woodrow Wilson...his mentor:>)

Our countries are populated by the descendants of brave settlers who crossed oceans, deserts, mountains, etc. and built entire countries from wilderness.


They be dead, your ancestors. They don't make Americans like they used to.


We've won world wars, landed on the moon, and now combat the crazies from the Muslim world. Who else even comes close???


I do.

I have to put up with American nutters here everyday. That takes ice in yer blood and steel in yer prick.

"bullshit. you have willfully rejected every idea presented on this issue if it does not involve higher taxes on corporations or wealthy individuals."

Er...they have all the money. Where else are we going to get it???? We built a great country by taxing the wealth and the corporations who, BTW, became wealthier while we did it. Then we followed the advise of Friedman and cut taxes on the wealthy....we are living in the results of that decision right now. How does if feel????
And I have the nerve to repeat it. OMG! I'm so ashamed.

but keep Paulson in power since he's a former Princeton Prof like Woodrow Wilson...his mentor:>)

#108 | Posted by Bani


...Um...Ok.

My advocacies had nothing to do with elected officials and their bullshit.

If by that you mean that when we visit Pakistan we order our meals "without hookworm", then you're right!


And when we visit America we want our meals without chemicals and female-hormones... which is impossible.

How many Americans with "man boobs"? LOL

"I have to put up with American nutters here everyday."

Er...you don't have to expose yourself to this site, you choose to do that. You must enjoy it.

My advocacies had nothing to do with elected officials and their bullshit.

#111 | Posted by JeffJ

...um...ok...Paulson was appointed

How many Americans with "man boobs"? LOL

#112 | Posted by Tosser

20 % in the south i understand

...um...ok...Paulson was appointed

#114 | Posted by Bani

Yes, he was.

He was appointed by Bush and was retained by Obama.

I don't tie my personal beliefs to what he says and advocates.

Er...they have all the money. Where else are we going to get it???? We built a great country by taxing the wealth and the corporations who, BTW, became wealthier while we did it.

by balancing the budget.

I know we can balance the budget by raising revenue in the manner.

I'm not convinced the fools in DC will no matter how much revenue they get.

no matter how much.

in any case, how does a larger federal govt keep companies like Boeing from sending jobs overseas?

or are you just referring to a tax disincentive?

If so, I am curious to hear how you would advise Obama, if you had his ear, regarding the pending joint speech he has tenatively scheduled for 1 week from today.

Jeff, what is the speech for?

I'm with Jeff. I am waiting for the discussion on how removing corporate personhood will give us what we (seemingly) want

"I have to put up with American nutters here everyday. That takes ice in yer blood and steel in yer prick."

Says the guy who goes running to Rcade when he's spoken to in the way he speaks to others.

Rcade told me he's too tired to kiss your boo-boos today so I won't demonstrate......


"Then we followed the advise of Friedman and cut taxes on the wealthy..."

"Dear Mr. Carmack,
As you know, I am entirely sympathetic with the objectives of your Monetary Reform Act...
You deserve a great deal of credit for carrying through so thoroughly on your own conception
I am impressed by your persistence and attention to detail in your successive revisions...
Best wishes, Milton Friedman"
Nobel Laureate in Economics; Senior Fellow, Hoover Institution on War, Revolution and Peace

www.themoneymasters.com


The Two Step Plan to National Economic Reform and Recovery

1. Directs the Treasury Department to issue U.S. Notes (exactly like Lincoln's Greenbacks) to pay off the National debt.

2. Increases the reserve ratio private banks are required to maintain from 10% to 100%, thereby terminating their ability to create money, while simultaneously absorbing the funds created to retire the national debt.

These two relatively simple steps, which Congress has the power to enact, would extinguish the national debt, without inflation or deflation, and end the unjust practice of private banks creating money as loans (i.e., fractional reserve banking). Paying off the national debt would wipe out the $400+ billion annual interest payments and thereby balance the budget. This Act would stabilize the economy and end the boom-bust economic cycles caused by fractional reserve banking.

"in any case, how does a larger federal govt keep companies like Boeing from sending jobs overseas?"

I never said it did. However, taxes on American corporations who do their manufacturing overseas could be increase, tariffs could be imposed, etc.
Using government to make our economy stronger has been one of the purposes of that government since our first years as a nation. Protections for American industries were enacted very early in our history. The virtual elimination of them is a recent development sold to us by followers of Friedman. They were full of crap and we see the long term results today. Other countries are realizing their error...namely Japan...as we speak.,

"I'm with Jeff. I am waiting for the discussion on how removing corporate personhood will give us what we (seemingly) want"

You would finally get real news. You would get a government that passes legislation to benefit citizens. YOu would not enter wars for oil. Right now, you would not have insurance companies inserting millions of dollars between your representatives in Congress and you the voter.
WE would have had national health care decades ago without corporate personhood.

Bani's ideas aren't so crazy, I might agree after leaning more about them. I've heard them before and I'm not necessarily opposed to them but it still comes down to the same basic problem.
The corporations can control the debate and would use fear tactics to prevent the enactment of those ideas.
It's the catch 22 on any major change which could effect the ease with which the super rich make money. They can, with enough money control public opinion through 24/7 media and through buying Congress. That is why I say they are our politboro and, as Jeff suggested, we could end up like the USSR. I believe we are approaching that right now but I just do not buy into the baloney that national health care is what would put us there. If anything, it could help us become more solvent by lowering the amount of GDP dedicated to health care leaving more to rebuild industry.

Corporate personhood:

Supreme Court Case, Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad.

Just google it.

Rathole Alert!

"We've won world wars..."

#97 | Posted by danni

I hope that by "we" you mean "the allies."

In both wars, the US had the advantage of having all, I repeat, all, of its manufacturing capability untouched, undamaged, at full capacity throughout both wars. This was particularly key in the victory of the allies over the Axis. If Germany had just a bit more time to build and deploy the V-10, what would have been the first ICBM, tipped with a nuclear warhead, the East coast of the US would have been Hiroshima 100 times over. And if Germany would have again had that time to deploy long range bombers that were in development, again the East coast would have been devastated.

Without the massive resupply effort of the US from untouched factories across the US, the Germans and Japanese would have eventually prevailed. The allies got to the punch first by destroying Japanese and German manufacturing.

So I would guess as a corollary, the US is losing its economic world war because it has lost its much of its once great manufacturing ability.

You would finally get real news. You would get a government that passes legislation to benefit citizens. YOu would not enter wars for oil. Right now, you would not have insurance companies inserting millions of dollars between your representatives in Congress and you the voter.
WE would have had national health care decades ago without corporate personhood.

you are skipping to the utopian end of a love story staring you and Nulli.


I want someone to connect the dots

in English.

out

gotta go.

you choose to do that. You must enjoy it.


I do, I do. That's the "adventurous" bit in me.

I like the rush I get when the nutter I am engaging reacts the way I thought he/she would. LOL

when we visit America we want our meals without chemicals and female-hormones... which is impossible.

#112 | Posted by Tosser

Well then Wanker, it's simple, even for you, don't visit the US.

says the guy who goes running to Rcade when he's spoken to in the way he speaks to others.


I am afraid I don't do racist and bigoted posts like you do.

The proof is, I don't get dumps, while you do.

If you break the posting rules, you will get penalized. Instead of being childish and sore about it, just grow up and stop making bigoted comments.


Rcade told me he's too tired to kiss your boo-boos today


Nice try.

RCADE is the blog-buddha. He no speeky.

don't visit the US.


Oh, *I* never intend to.

I was speaking generally.

If I go to North America, I will go see Canada and piss in some river that goes into America. That way you will know I wuz there without being there.

"I want someone to connect the dots


in English."

Jeff brought it up but didn't realize that he made a statement which would earn him the title of COMMUNIST if the right wing pundits and politicians ever heard him utter it. Now, he just needs to ask himself why that is and he will accidentally open his mind. Any American that has the gall to question that unconstitutional pretense that corporate America has used to control things for so long will never be the same once they honestly question the basic premise of corporate personhood.
Probably the single most important concept in America because it is the source of power for the few over the many.

"I am afraid I don't do racist and bigoted posts like you do."

You troll around with anti-American nonsense so I gave you a dose of your own medicine by telling you about your country. "Pakistani" is not a race. Its not like I said you guys smell for some genetic reason. Anyone who engages in your culture's grooming habits is going to stink - but especially your mom. You're just a crybaby who can dish it out but can't take it.

"The proof is, I don't get dumps, while you do."

Proof of you being a cowardly little turd who can't take his own medicine? Yep, it sure is.

so I gave you a dose of your own medicine by telling you about your country.


That wasn't what you got the dumps for, man-child. LOL

I suggest you let it go. Bottling in anger like you keep doing is bad for health.


Proof of you being a cowardly little turd


Temper, temper, man-child....

Anyone who engages in your culture's grooming habits is going to stink


Our culture? I am pretty sure you don't know what is MY culture. (if you say "Pakistani" you fail the test)


You're just a crybaby who can dish it out but can't take it.


I just don't do it the kiddy-kindergarten way like you do.... "your mom stinks!"... what is THAT??? Are we in the playground? LOL

My responses to you are of higher quality... and I understand if you don't get them the first time.

"That wasn't what you got the dumps for, man-child. LOL"

Sure it is. I said you guys smell and that your country is a filthy shithole and you cried to Rcade like a little girl and I got a couple of dumps. Then you bragged about it because your ilk doesn't recognize cowardice as a fault. Now in a fashion that is also typical of your peeps - you are lying rather than owning up to your actions and probably believeing your own lies. LOL.

And its not the dumps that matter. What makes you a bitch is that you felt the need to cry to Rcade in the first place.


Then you bragged about it because your ilk doesn't recognize cowardice as a fault.


In the war strategy of Kaushalya (like the Sun-Zu of the Indian Subcontinent), "if you can use the rules of the game against the other to bring him down, please do so by all means!".

LOL... Americans just don't get such heavy stuff I guess since all they read are comic books.

Exactly why Boeing is moving to China.


you are lying


You got dumps. I did not. How is that a lie?


What makes you a bitch


You are the one who can't stop bitching about it. LOL

I did not mention it... you did.

Man-Child, man-child, man-child... just can't leave it alone can you?

Trust you to stink up an interesting thread by bringing in your petty little issues like "I got dumped".

Nobody gives a shit about you and how many dumps you got. Don't think of yourself as that important.

"I did not mention it... you did."

I didn't bring up the dumps. I wouldn't have even known I had them if not for you telling me. You seem to think they prove something. All they prove to me is that you're a crybaby.

What I did bring it up is that you go running to Rcade when Americans kick your ass at your own game and I did so because you were bragging:

"I have to put up with American nutters here everyday. That takes ice in yer blood and steel in yer prick."

I just had to set the record straight. You're a snivelling twit and until now, you were proud of it. Now you're double posting and talking nonsense because I shattered your delusions of grandeur.


Corporate personhood:

Supreme Court Case, Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad.

Just google it.

#125 | Posted by danni

Did that. All this 1886 decision states is that corporations are entitled to equal protection of the laws. Explain to me how a corporation being entitled to protection under the law is reponsible for everything that you see wrong in the world today.

I didn't bring up the dumps.


Yes you did.

See post 120.


I wouldn't have even known I had them if not for you telling me.


I like doing that. I always tell what I have been up to so there is no confusion later.

I told you, back then, in the hope you fix yourself in the future.

After all I am not some lying sneaky American. LOL


You're a snivelling twit and until now, you were proud of it.


Nope, you are the one who is acting like a spoiled baby, man-child.

You got dumps. RCADE agreed you are acting like a bigot.

Accept it, move on.

I play the game FAR better than you, LOL.

I didn't mention the dumps in that post. Do you believe I did? LOL.


That is exactly what you meant.

Weak... very weak.


I was acting like you


Nope. I am never a racist nor a bigot.

You were and are.


If I prayed to Mo-Mo the Kiddie Diddler, I would probably be a pussy too.


See? Bigoted as ever.

Understand that your problems are not mine. I can't undo what you did to yourself.

Lacking education on where to draw the line and then acting confused "why did that happen to me?"

LOL... Man-child, I hope this is all an act otherwise I fear for your future.

Mo-Mo married a child.


No he didn't.


It is all fact. The truth is never biased.


Yes, it is all a fact.

1. I play the game better than you.

2. You can't stop crying about it. LOL

Man-up, man-child! Man-up!

Man-child in action!

www.youtube.com

Stop crying, would you? LOL

It is disgusting the way you are hijacking the thread with your cry-baby behavior.

I'd like to think I'd still shower, but who knows how bad my hygience would be if I were Pakstani?


According to the Chinese, you stink to high-heaven... I don't. LOL

Ask any Chinese.

I hope the people at Boeing will take deodorant with them...

"Mo-Mo married a child."

"No he didn't."


en.wikipedia.org

Yes he diiii-id. LOL.

But you knew that. Before you lied. Now you probably believe the lie. Doesn't change the fact that your Profit Mo-Mo fucked a kid.

Profit Mo-Mo fucked a kid.


Nope. There is enough historical research out there to say otherwise.

However, that is besides the point since it won't stop Boeing from going to China.

Picture this..

Sully, the man-child.. "Boeing! You can't go to China because Mo-mo diddled kid!"

Boeing... "Man-child... you got dumped. That is not our concern. We are going!".

LOL

The sad fact is, people like you can take refuge and comfort in your racism and bigotry.

It will not change the fact that America is fast losing it's industrial base.

You car industry is near dead.

Now it's the turn of your aviation industry to die.

But the ignorant and the bigoted and the "dumped" (LOL) will always find comfort in their mind of how they are being ripped off by "the world".

Listen dumroo. You are not as good as they are.

Accept that.

Me Chinese
Me play joke
Me put peepee
In your coke.
#12 | Posted by Tosser at 2009-09-02 02:20 PM

Holy shit, I had entirely forgotten about that prophetically racist childhood ditty.. and it makes perfect sense now - it all makes sense. Coke must eat Pepsi to survive. It seems undoable.. but that's where Asperger's Aspersion Advertising(tm) could easily take advantage of peoples natural fear of moral dilemma by exalting that virtue! Through subtle maintenance our team of professionating entities can induce demographic after demographic of merchandising potential - all without the use of steroids as we command all employees to submit to lower gi penetration and encourage ['Permanent Dietary Restrictions' pp22-24]. In this manner we are feel assured that not only shall Coke hold that conch-shell, but he'll be skull-fuckering the fuck out of it as well.

"Hi, I'm Lotion, it's nice ta meet you Basket. Hey, look up there - HOSE, howya doin'? Got that crazy motherfucker still holdin' onto ya, I see..
[gurgling]
"Yeah, but I'm 100% alcohol free, so there's no real escape from my luminescent smoothing after-buffers and skinflexion sprinks or my nutritious and hi-lightening tooth enamel additives. Skin-wise, I'm inserting more subcutaneous moisture into you than even when submerged indefinitely.. Hey, man, don't look so pissed-off at me for such luxurious affordability.
[loud spashing/ gurgling]
MISTER HOSE, NOOOOOOOoooo

On topic: Boeing laid off 1100 workers recently here in Portland. They pay little in taxes for their location already and workers unions are totally softened-up, what possible incentive would they have for this total move offshore? Should I be finding a mountainous cave about now? Don't fucking turn us all into Bin Ladenites - fine Boeing for each and every job "turned over" to China to equalize their payscale to our American standard. Since our global workforces are now melding into a lower-standard if would be prudent to consider this immediate disincentive to invite further discussion of the best functioning playing field for all workers. A global workers union needs to enforce and have the power to encourage national interests to compete with better success for all.

Probably the single most important concept in America because it is the source of power for the few over the many.

#133 | Posted by danni

& here's just one simple solution 'em Dems who now run the show can implement to save our 'democracy'


The Two Step Plan to National Economic Reform and Recovery

1. Directs the Treasury Department to issue U.S. Notes (exactly like Lincoln's Greenbacks) to pay off the National debt.

2. Increases the reserve ratio private banks are required to maintain from 10% to 100%, thereby terminating their ability to create money, while simultaneously absorbing the funds created to retire the national debt.

These two relatively simple steps, which Congress has the power to enact, would extinguish the national debt, without inflation or deflation, and end the unjust practice of private banks creating money as loans (i.e., fractional reserve banking). Paying off the national debt would wipe out the $400+ billion annual interest payments and thereby balance the budget. This Act would stabilize the economy and end the boom-bust economic cycles caused by fractional reserve banking.


www.themoneymasters.com

fine Boeing for each and every job "turned over" to China to equalize their payscale to our American standard.


That is very un-American of you.

You are against the spirit of free enterprise if you invoke the Govt. to intervene and "fine" a company for doing good business.

"The corporations can control the debate and would use fear tactics to prevent the enactment of those ideas."

I could post one link that tells us who owns these media corporations in general, but that might give me a dump:>)

You're lying


I am not American. I don't lie.

There is enough stuff out there. Just Google for it.

See, I read books on such stuff... not picked it up from a paragraph on the internet in 5 minutes.


In Iran, it is legal to marry a 9 year old girl if her parents agree.


But not in any other muslim country.


People fuck kids all over the Muslim world


They do?

I am sure they don't as much as they do in the US since American girls are losing their virginity at 11, 12, 13 years of age. Not uncommon at all.

Our age of marriage is going up and American age of fucking (you don't marry, LOL) is coming down!


Now call me a bigot for stating the truth.


I call you a bigot and an ignoramus.


Blaming everyone else for their fucked-up backwardness.


No... that is what YOU are doing.. blaming me, Islam, "mo-mo", whatever, for America losing business to China. LOL

Talk about projecting your crap...

If anyone would like to read from the top of the thread, I said, the only way the American aviation industry would be able to survive, is by collaborating with China.

Or else it's lights out ladies!

Your choice. (as if you have one. LOL)

China sells 25 of it's planes to an American company, already!


news.xinhuanet.com


hahahahahahahahahahahahaha....

They just started making planes and they already got an order. LOL

Tell this company "I am Man-child! You must listen to me! Mo-mo diddled a kid! So you must cancel order for Chinese aircraft!"

Huh??? they will go and throw you out of the building.

"Man-child has left the building!" LOL

Point is... there is NOTHING any American or the American public can do to stop the rot in American industry.

Not with O'Bambi in charge.

Better business will happen if giant companies relocate away from the US.

"Probably the single most important concept in America because it is the source of power for the few over the many.
#133 | Posted by danni"

& here's just one simple solution 'em Dems who now run the show can implement to save our 'democracy'
The Two Step Plan to National Economic Reform and Recovery
1. Directs the Treasury Department to issue U.S. Notes (exactly like Lincoln's Greenbacks) to pay off the National debt.
2. Increases the reserve ratio private banks are required to maintain from 10% to 100%, thereby terminating their ability to create money, while simultaneously absorbing the funds created to retire the national debt.
These two relatively simple steps, which Congress has the power to enact, would extinguish the national debt, without inflation or deflation, and end the unjust practice of private banks creating money as loans (i.e., fractional reserve banking). Paying off the national debt would wipe out the $400+ billion annual interest payments and thereby balance the budget. This Act would stabilize the economy and end the boom-bust economic cycles caused by fractional reserve banking.
www.themoneymasters.com
#154 | Posted by Bani at 2009-09-03 02:08 PM

That's freakin' gorgeous and simple.

In order to publicize it's obviousness to all Democracy Now! should, again, consider a special segment analyzing the stock market analysts trades in relation to the money these corporations spend on each other while observing this probable Fed reformation and bank buying spree.

"Africa, Swine Flu, Iran, California! Now, bail on your partner, do-si-do.."

if you don't want your Profit to be a kid-toucher


It seems to concern you a lot more than it concerns me.

Even if he did marry a 9 year old, so what? The standard that one must not marry before 18 are American values (in Holland, the age of consent is 12).

And as we all know, American values only gave America broken homes and a super-high divorce rate.

For historical accuracy (and because others here might be interested) I post conflicting evidence that "Mo-mo" never married a 9 year old.
------------------------------

Aisha's age is quoted as anything from 9 to 12, to 16 or even 20.

--------------------------

-Most of these narratives are reported only by Hisham ibn urwah reporting on the authority of his father. An event as well known as the one being reported, should logically have been reported by more people than just one, two or three.

-It is quite strange that no one from Medinah, where Hisham ibn `urwah lived the first seventy-one years of his life has narrated the event, even though in Medinah his pupils included people as well known as Malik ibn Anas. All the narratives of this event have been reported by narrators from Iraq, where Hisham is reported to have shifted after living in Medinah for seventy-one years.

-Tehzeeb al-Tehzeeb, one of the most well known books on the life and reliability of the narrators of the traditions ascribed to the Prophet (pbuh) reports that according to Yaqub ibn Shaibah: "narratives reported by Hisham are reliable except those that are reported through the people of Iraq". It further states that Malik ibn Anas objected on those narratives of Hisham, which were reported through people of Iraq (Vol. 11, pg. 48 - 51).

-Meezaan al-Aitidaal, another book on the narrators of the traditions of the Prophet (pbuh) reports that when he was old, Hisham's memory suffered quite badly (Vol. 4, pg. 301 - 302).

-According to the generally accepted tradition, Ayesha (ra) was born about eight years before Hijrah. However, according to another narrative in Bukhari (Kitaab al-Tafseer) Ayesha (ra) is reported to have said that at the time Surah Al-Qamar, the 54th chapter of the Qur'an , was revealed, "I was a young girl". The 54th Surah of the Qur'an was revealed nine years before Hijrah. According to this tradition, Ayesha (ra) had not only been born before the revelation of the referred Surah, but was actually a young girl (jariyah), not even only an infant (sibyah) at that time. Obviously, if this narrative is held to be true, it is in clear contradiction with the narratives reported by Hisham ibn `urwah. I see absolutely no reason that after the comments of the experts on the narratives of Hisham ibn `urwah, why should we not accept this narrative to be more accurate.

-According to a number of narratives, Ayesha (ra) accompanied the Muslims in the battle of Badr and Uhud. Furthermore, it is also reported in books of hadith and history that no one under the age of 15 years was allowed to take part in the battle of Uhud. All the boys below 15 years of age were sent back. Ayesha's (ra) participation in the battle of Badr and Uhud clearly indicates that she was not nine or ten years old at that time. After all, women used to accompany men to the battlefields to help them, not to be a burden upon them.

-According to almost all the historians Asma (ra), the elder sister of Ayesha (ra) was ten years older than Ayesha (ra). It is reported in Taqreeb al-Tehzeeb as well as Al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah that Asma (ra) died in the 73rd year after hijrah[2] when she was 100 years old. Now, obviously if Asma (ra) was 100 years old in the 73rd year after hijrah, she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah. If Asma (ra) was 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah, Ayesha (ra) should have been 17 or 18 years old at that time. Thus, Ayesha (ra) - if she got married in 1 AH (after hijrah) or 2 AH - was between 18 to 20 years old at the time of her marriage.

-Tabari in his treatise on Islamic history, while mentioning Abu Bakr (ra) reports that Abu Bakr had four children and all four were born during the Jahiliyyah - the pre Islamic period. Obviously, if Ayesha (ra) was born in the period of jahiliyyah, she could not have been less than 14 years in 1 AH - the time she most likely got married.

-According to Ibn Hisham, the historian, Ayesha (ra) accepted Islam quite some time before Umar ibn Khattab (ra). This shows that Ayesha (ra) accepted Islam during the first year of Islam. While, if the narrative of Ayesha's (ra) marriage at seven years of age is held to be true, Ayesha (ra) should not even have been born during the first year of Islam.

-Tabari has also reported that at the time Abu Bakr (ra) planned on migrating to Habshah (8 years before Hijrah), he went to Mut`am - with whose son Ayesha (ra) was engaged at that time - and asked him to take Ayesha (ra) in his house as his son's wife. Mut`am refused, because Abu Bakr had embraced Islam. Subsequently, his son divorced Ayesha (ra). Now, if Ayesha (ra) was only seven years old at the time of her marriage, she could not have been born at the time Abu Bakr decided on migrating to Habshah. On the basis of this report it seems only reasonable to assume that Ayesha (ra) had not only been born 8 years before hijrah, but was also a young lady, quite prepared for marriage.

-According to a narrative reported by Ahmad ibn Hanbal, after the death of Khadijah (ra), when Khaulah (ra) came to the Prophet (pbuh) advising him to marry again, the Prophet (pbuh) asked her regarding the choices she had in her mind. Khaulah said: "You can marry a virgin (bikr) or a woman who has already been married (thayyib)". When the Prophet (pbuh) asked about who the virgin was, Khaulah proposed Ayesha's (ra) name. All those who know the Arabic language, are aware that the word "bikr" in the Arabic language is not used for an immature nine-year old girl. The correct word for a young playful girl, as stated earlier is "Jariyah". "Bikr" on the other hand, is used for an unmarried lady, and obviously a nine year old is not a "lady".

-According to Ibn Hajar, Fatimah (ra) was five years older than Ayesha (ra). Fatimah (ra) is reported to have been born when the Prophet (pbuh) was 35 years old. Thus, even if this information is taken to be correct, Ayesha (ra) could by no means be less than 14 years old at the time of hijrah, and 15 or 16 years old at the time of her marriage.

Having posted all that, I wonder if THAT will stop American companies from relocating to China?

Not bloody likely!

hahahahahahahahahahahahaa

Point is... there is NOTHING any American or the American public can do to stop the rot in American industry.
Not with O'Bambi in charge.
Better business will happen if giant companies relocate away from the US.
#162 | Posted by Tosser at 2009-09-03 02:40 PM

Did you happen to catch President Obama speaking last month to that Russian educationally instituted crowd? The audience shown little emotion and tended to frown.. I've never seen anything like that other than maybe from a seated Pentagon military audience. The "opportunities" he was referring to were undoubtedly trade-affiliated. Competition for China?! Hardly, but preferential contracting undoubtedly. So why all the long faces?

So why all the long faces?


It's because O'Bambi speaks from both sides of his face. He is deliberately vague so he can back-track later. Nobody believes him even if he might be sincere (thanks to last idiot).

In the good old day, I would've said "pale-face speaks with forked tongue", but times have changed. LOL

"Nope. There is enough historical research out there to say otherwise."

You're lying but I'm sure you believe yourself.
Moose-lambs still use Mo-Mo's perversion as an excuse to fuck kids. In Iran, it is legal to marry a 9 year old girl if her parents agree. The Taliban would encourage families to marry off their daughters before puberty too. Without a doubt it happens in the rural parts of your country as well. People fuck kids all over the Muslim world thanks to the Profit Mo-Mo the Pedo. LOL.
Now call me a bigot for stating the truth. That's what your peeps do best: Blaming everyone else for their fucked-up backwardness.
#155 | Posted by Sully at 2009-09-03 02:11 PM

Child abuse is common to parts of the world where labor rights are ignored, sexual equality isn't realized and social networks are not in place (or worse, fundamentalism is). Typically, children and women are in more need than any other "demographic" to this very day in every nation on this planet. Regardless how many Muslim or Christian there are, the very nations they inhabit are often the slower to evolve in crucial areas that alleviate these burdensome habits.

Btw - it would appear that there is much propaganda surrounding how Christians view Islam. I would hope that an educated perspective suits both dogmas.

Child abuse is common to parts of the world where labor rights are ignored, sexual equality isn't realized and social networks are not in place


Like catholic padre guys, buggering young boys? In America [gasp!]???

Danni's a moronic fuck, but there are a few things I agree with her on.

I don't understand how anyone who supports balanced budgets (ie. fiscal conservatism) thinks we should just do away with corporate taxes.

Raise taxes on them, and then offer exemptions out the ass for investing in OUR country. Then the greedy fucks who outsource can give a little back to fund all of the unemployment of those whose jobs were lost to some Chinese cunt.

"Child abuse is common to parts of the world where labor rights are ignored, sexual equality isn't realized and social networks are not in place (or worse, fundamentalism is)."

I know. But if you tell Tosser that he'll call you a bigot.

"So why all the long faces?"

It's because O'Bambi speaks from both sides of his face. He is deliberately vague so he can back-track later. Nobody believes him even if he might be sincere (thanks to last idiot).
In the good old day, I would've said "pale-face speaks with forked tongue", but times have changed. LOL
#170 | Posted by Tosser at 2009-09-03 02:57 PM

So, you are predicting his future behavior? Imo, if there is anything untoward regarding President Obama's policy actions it's entirely relating to political expediency. His considerations are well-thought out, and I am hoping the torture issue can become rationale for further transparency where contractors and lobbyists interact with monies.

I would not compare these actions with BushCo, but Cheney might..

But, I ask again, HOW is this going to stop China from taking America's industries away?

Crying in frustration at muslims or whatever, will not solve America's problems. LOL

But then I guess, there isn't much else you can do now is there?

buggering young boys?

#172 | Posted by Tosser at 2009-09-03 03:10 PM | Reply | Flag: Has a small half chubby after typing that; par for the course for a Pakishitstain

So, you are predicting his future behavior?

Sort of.

Even if he means well, his office has too much recent baggage.

par for the course for a Pakishitstain

Matherchod-Amreekan. LOL

I did not make up the stories of American priests buggering American boys.

Your highest moral authority was a kid toucher


And I just proved he wasn't.


and you see nothing wrong with that.


Boys and girls... he still doesn't get it! LOL

I call you man-child for a reason!

But if you tell Tosser that he'll call you a bigot.


No, Man-child.. I am only calling you a bigot right now. LOL

"Child abuse is common to parts of the world where labor rights are ignored, sexual equality isn't realized and social networks are not in place"

Like catholic padre guys, buggering young boys? In America [gasp!]???
#172 | Posted by Tosser at 2009-09-03 03:10 PM

I used the term "fundamentalism" as an easy generalization because the religions are the most obvious form to point out, but military, political, etc. are also serious threats to our standards of conduct. Catholics have left their faith and abused children the same as Muslim, Jews and faithless atheists. Sexual predation is more complex than just a failing of any religious standards.

Uh-oh. 4 posts in a row from Tosser. LOL. So easy to get him all riled up. Turn the handle and the monkey dances.

Uh-oh. 4 posts in a row from Tosser.


That is always the way I post. I think of something I fire away.

Always to the point I am, sharp as a needle.


Turn the handle and the monkey dances.


And the Man-child comes crying back. LOL

"Sexual predation is more complex than just a failing of any religious standards."

But its so much more salacious when sexual predation is coupled by a failing of religious standards.

That's just human nature.

So easy to get him all riled up.


If it was that easy, your attempts to bait me into making a post that you can flag, would have succeeded by now, no? hahahahahahahahahahaha

"So, you are predicting his future behavior?"

Sort of.
Even if he means well, his office has too much recent baggage.
#179 | Posted by Tosser at 2009-09-03 03:16 PM

I agree with the baggage - staffers are of particular concern to me and appear to stay even more entrenched than officials they service.

But you are really referring to the BushCo sloughings, clingings and comparisons.. Yeppers, Dick Cheney might sound like a desperate neocon, but remember what Princess Mononoke taught us: that even a wolf's severed head might still snap after you. Thus, Sarah "Death From Above" Palin.

options:
1) lose thousands of highly skilled/highly paid manufactoring/engineering jobs because the CEO wants to leave a legacy?
2) use one bullet. And see what direction the new CEO wants to go in.

No need to be since it is well against the moderation policy.

'That is always the way I post. I think of something I fire away.'

"Always to the point I am, sharp as a needle"

so you've been fasting on Ramayana?

2) use one bullet. And see what direction the new CEO wants to go in.

#190 | Posted by slicksterWilly


certainly got interesting events goin' here...more bullets, though:>)

John F. Kennedy
vs
The Federal Reserve

www.john-f-kennedy.net

I don't understand how anyone who supports balanced budgets (ie. fiscal conservatism) thinks we should just do away with corporate taxes.

Because corporations don't have any money other than what they earn through selling goods and services. So, the money used to pay the taxes comes, in fact, from their customers.

If competition does not result in reduced prices, than the increased profits will eventually have to be paid to the owners, i.e shareholders (IRA's, 401k's, etc.). These individuals would eventually pay the tax on their increased dividends.

The benefit of this would be to allow companies to be in a better price competitive position globally without moving overseas for reduced labor cost, and to hire more workers domestically, resulting in yet more taxes paid by these workers on their earnings.

That's how.

"If competition does not result in reduced prices, than the increased profits will eventually have to be paid to the owners, i.e shareholders (IRA's, 401k's, etc.)."

On which they would pay a maximum of 15% tax.
Do away with the unfair reduction in tax liability for capital gains compared to regular income and I might even agree with you.

Do away with the unfair reduction in tax liability for capital gains compared to regular income and I might even agree with you.

In exchange for elimination of the corporate income tax? OK, I'll buy that.

And yes, I realize you're going to think this is another attempt to "bait" you


Oh yeah. You aren't too bright and it's easy to see what game you are aiming for.

Still, like I said, it's got everything to do with me playing the game better than you.

Now accept what happened to you with some grace.

so you've been fasting on Ramayana?


LOL.... on and off, more or less....

"Still, like I said, it's got everything to do with me playing the game better than you."

What game? I just wanted to prove you're a crybaby and you readily admitted to it. If it's a game, you're practically on my team. LOL.

Boeing is a top level defense contractor. No one in their right mind would consider moving that technology to China. The Pentagon needs to have an eyeball-to-eyeball chat with this nutbar and his Board members.

"No one in their right mind would consider moving that technology to China."

While I completely agree with you I wonder what makes you think that the people who decide such things are now or have been in the recent past in their right minds???
I think greed has intoxicated the investment class and it is devouring the nation faster than they realize and will soon devour them too.

The Final kick in America's nuts from Boeing. I say they leave buy airbus and fuck em.

Oh sorry... here is the correct link.


China's first commercial jet:

www.youtube.com

#7 | Posted by Tosser

if they fly as well as the products that currently come from china.. we will soon have dozens of crashes as a result of the quality.

if they fly as well as the products that currently come from china.. we will soon have dozens of crashes as a result of the quality.


Nonsense.

At the speed at which they are going, they will bury the US aviation industry in a decade or two.... or sooner.

Chinese products are already far higher in quality than the shitty American crap I remember, which always broke down in weeks and had to be fixed or returned.

I don't think your complaining is justified.

What game?... asks Sully the Man-child.


This game. LOL

bayimg.com

Enjoy your vacation buddy. hahahahahahahahahaha

Boys and girls, as you can see, the stupid fellow just didn't get it until it was too late.

This is what happens if you get yourself too excited and violate the moderation policy.

Man-Child keeps falling into this trap over and over again. LOL

What is the point of posting here if all your posts will be either deleted or if you keep getting dumps???

Like I said, boys and girls... some folks just can't learn.

Tosser, for somebody who seems to be so offended,you sure like to gloat

Tosser, for somebody who seems to be so offended,you sure like to gloat


I am only offended by the idea that people think they can manipulate me into doing something stupid.

This Sully/Man-Child is famous for doing exactly what he blamed me for... reporting and flagging posts.

He just got a taste of his own medicine and yes, I find that a bit funny.

Can't say I didn't warn him.

I never attack sneaky. I told him exactly what would happen but the fool just didn't get it.

Well, he will be posting under another fake name for the next two weeks. LOL

for somebody who seems to be so offended


And read the moderation policy Bruce. Read it well.

One can't act like a bigot and continue to post here.

This place is supposed to be a forum to discuss news and politics. It is understandable if things get a little heated but that is no excuse to behave like an ignorant street-urchin.

Simple.

People keep forgetting that I am not only a Pakistani, but I am a Pathan.

We don't lie. We don't exaggerate. We don't bullshit.

We don't knife you in the back. We only knife you in the front so you can see us doing it. That is our way.

The biggest mistake Americans make is that just because my English language is perfect, they think I am like them. LOL

Nope. Not really.

Yeah, I saw that moderation policy on my first day here and I beleived it.But after awhile I realized its probably there so Rcade doesn't get sued.
Anyway ,if you warned Sully,OK.
But damn you sure like to gloat.

Love to read your posts though

"We don't lie. We don't exaggerate. We don't bullshit."

Ya gotta love the self-retorting retort.

We only knife you in the front so you can see us doing it

Fair enough

We don't lie. We don't exaggerate. We don't bullshit.

We don't knife you in the back. We only knife you in the front so you can see us doing it. That is our way.

Where have I head this before?

But damn you sure like to gloat.


Just a bit. LOL

Where have I head this before?


Don't know. Where have you heard this before?

Eberly just accepts the situation we are in and doesn't care how far we will decline, he has posted such noncaring attitude for quite sometime now. I do recognize he doesn't like what is happening but willy nilly just accepts it as the way it should be and is.

Jeff J. is just plain blind, throwing out all kinds of OLD economic supposed rational theories our country has moved so towards but has not one iota of fact that shows his supposed rational theories actually improved our situation. In fact, as we follow the history it leads to right where we are and nothing will change as long as we have political pandering propaganda pushers like Jeff J.

We have a global economy....doesn't mean we now have to keep such. We can change our rules on how we play in that global economy ANY TIME WE WANT. This is something Eberly and JeffJ. never ever seem to acknowledge.

Why do corporations have to continue to increase their profits????? They are not individual, their profits help a nonindividual. Remove personhood from the corporation and that will place the responsibility of what they do on the CEO's and the corporate executives....right where it should belong.

Labor should be traded equally, LIKE EVER OTHER COMMODITY but it is strange how these few think they know economics refuse to even recognize it.

Back in the late late 70's when I was in college the same old economic rational theories JeffJ. is now spouting was the accepted rational ideas but we were not even close to the open economic global market we have now. Those theories are based mostly on a closed market just like our tax laws.

Why do we have deduction from our taxes? Because they could be used as investments in employing our American labor force. Now they still get the same deductions for investing over sees not contributing to our economic labor. People like JeffJ. see this and know this but still refuse to admit that our economy is based upon the wages of our workforce.

Sadly I know Boeing has set a goal of being out of the Puget sound area by 2016, but no one is going to expect it to move out of country..1/3 of our nations trade deficit is reduce by boeing .... imagine the layoffs after this happens.

"People like JeffJ. see this and know this but still refuse to admit that our economy is based upon the wages of our workforce."

Not just picking on Jeff but so many base their opinions purely on the ideology of Ronnie Raygun, they accept it as dogma and just disregard the facts which clearly show the failure of that theory of economics. It is much like religion to them and is based upon nearly the same type of faith, that which can be held in spite of the facts at hand. IMHO.

It is much like religion to them and is based upon nearly the same type of faith, that which can be held in spite of the facts at hand. IMHO.

#213 | Posted by danni at 2009-09-04 08:18 AM

Ah, the old "the other side iz partisan sheeple cuz they won't accepts my arguments!!1!" retort.™

Even more hilarious coming from a known partisan sheeple.

Remember "Rising Sun"? A remake: this time China. "Rising Dragon"?

Unfortunately, Chrichton's gone, Sean is too old, and Snipes is still doing his taxes.

Any Hollywood producers reading this thread?

Big Company CEO's as traitors? Where did the TARP money go, to feed rich executives bank accounts so they could return to the speculation market quickly. The US Government, Banking, FED and selective Large Corporations are getting very rich off of your tax dollars and will get astronomically richer the longer the current adminstration holds office (and the next adminstration, and the ones after that). They don't care about your opinion nor responses on the subject, it means little to them as the masses are their tools only to be discarded when not needed. If it moves, tax it is their mantra. Except for Charlie Rangel, he and his minions are exempt.

"The US Government, Banking, FED and selective Large Corporations are getting very rich off of your tax dollars and will get astronomically richer the longer the current adminstration holds office"

Yeah, we sure do miss that Bush administration that protected us from the greedy speculators, corporations, profiteers, etc.
And then you compound your stupidity by pretending that the idea of taxation is supported by the greed fuckers.
And Charlie Rangel will end up dealing with the consequences of his tax problems, I don't think he will get a pass.

if they fly as well as the products that currently come from china.. we will soon have dozens of crashes as a result of the quality.


Nonsense.

At the speed at which they are going, they will bury the US aviation industry in a decade or two.... or sooner.

Chinese products are already far higher in quality than the shitty American crap I remember, which always broke down in weeks and had to be fixed or returned.

I don't think your complaining is justified.

#198 | Posted by Tosser

You are such a fucking dickhead. Chinese cast products and electronics are inferior to Mexico's.

My complaining is due to first hand knowledge of quality data and fallout from manufacturing facilities in CHINA specifically Suzhou.

We don't knife you in the back. We only knife you in the front so you can see us doing it. That is our way.

The biggest mistake Americans make is that just because my English language is perfect, they think I am like them. LOL

Nope. Not really.

#204 | Posted by Tosser

I like to knife you in the front too so you can see me smile when I twist the knife.

pussy

And Charlie Rangel will end up dealing with the consequences of his tax problems, I don't think he will get a pass.

#217 | Posted by danni at 2009-09-04 11:44 AM

Riiight...

--Timothy Geithner

Obama and libard Democrats in Congress have declared war on corporate America. It would not surprise me to learn many other companies will move to areas around the world (China, India, etc) with a well educated workforce, low labor costs, lower supplies costs, lower regulation standards and lower taxes. I think the libards think that the poor inner city crowd and union workers who enjoy the "safety" of stable wage increases and pensions will somehow become dramtically risk averse and put it all on the line to build companies from the ground up and lead economic growth while not worry about profits or research & development.

I like to knife you in the front too so you can see me smile when I twist the knife.


As if you can. LOL

Calm down now... no need to get all excited.


Chinese cast products and electronics are inferior to Mexico's.


Impossible.


My complaining is due to first hand knowledge of quality data and fallout from manufacturing facilities in CHINA


Lets have some names then, bullshitter. LOL

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