McCain is getting lost in Obama's dust.

At this point-McShame/failin' can't see the dust-they're too far behind.
McLame's too busy lookin' St Sarah's bee-hind-wonderin' when he's gonna get a shot at it.

"a 90-day moratorium on home foreclosures at some banks"

Some? What is he doing? Checking his campaign fund raiser lists?

You can be sure his campaign coffers are full of donations from people who can't afford to make their mortgage payments.

Sure

You can be sure his campaign coffers are full of donations from people who can't afford to make their mortgage payments.

Sure

#4 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

SOME banks, retard. Do you ever read before you make an ass out of yourself?

My friends,

These economic gimmicks are just that
Gimmicks.
Jobs... bah... gimmicks.
What we need are real tax cuts for capital gains.
Nevermind that there are no capital gains this year.
My wife, Judy and I, are personally investing in this start up business.... Bell Telephone.
Where are my Strawberries?

~John "New Technologies" McCain.

I see in typical fashion, AU has run again after putting his foot in his mouth.
Coward.

I have better things to do than sit around and wait for your asshole-ish posts.

Why don't you?

Besides, all you do is troll the Comments section, wait for me to post, and then hurl your asshole-ishness.

You are nothing to me.

Why don't you?

#8 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Why don't I what? Admit that I didn't read or understand a post?

You are nothing to me.

#9 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

You responded to my post, retard. My #3, followed by your #4. Keep trying....

Girls! Girls!

Here, here's a song for ya'll!

withdraw up to $10,000 from their retirement accounts without any penalty for the remainder of the year and 2009.

Stupid idea. This is why SS is in bad shape and he wants to encourage people to take their retirement money out early? He only sees a tree not the forest this one.

Corky, I can't compete with his size 4 wife.

WISGOD

In case you missed the point of my previous posts, I wanted to make sure you know I think you're an asshole - because you are. Why you've gone on a one man crusade to be an asshole is information only you know and I could care less to know. I didn't start this shit with you. Sorry you're having such a hard time with whatever that makes you a constant asshole. Hope whatever it is clears up.

I've met several people from DR and they don't share your opinion. WTF is wrong with you?

WTF is wrong with you?

#15 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

You responded to my post and retorted back with something that made no sense. Is it that goddamn hard to see, Pops? You don't like getting called out, do ya?

Where are my Strawberries?

I don't know why, but that made me laugh.

FF 726

At least Obama is making proposals. All McCain has is guilt by association.

All McCain has is guilt by association.

#18 | Posted by LeeAtwater

This is a letter by the prosecutor of the Weathermen. Of course it won't stop Rush, Sean, Sarah, or their fans:

As the lead federal prosecutor of the Weathermen in the 1970s (I was then chief of the criminal division in the Eastern District of Michigan and took over the Weathermen prosecution in 1972), I am amazed and outraged that Senator Barack Obama is being linked to William Ayers's terrorist activities 40 years ago when Mr. Obama was, as he has noted, just a child.

Although I dearly wanted to obtain convictions against all the Weathermen, including Bill Ayers, I am very pleased to learn that he has become a responsible citizen.

Because Senator Obama recently served on a board of a charitable organization with Mr. Ayers cannot possibly link the senator to acts perpetrated by Mr. Ayers so many years ago.

I do take issue with the statement in your news article that the Weathermen indictment was dismissed because of "prosecutorial misconduct." It was dismissed because of illegal activities, including wiretaps, break-ins and mail interceptions, initiated by John N. Mitchell, attorney general at that time, and W. Mark Felt, an F.B.I. assistant director.

William C. Ibershof

Mill Valley, Calif., Oct. 8, 2008

Very McCarthyesque.

At least Obama is making proposals.
Posted by LeeAtwater

I'm going to have to sleep on the portion regarding allowing 10K to be withdrawn from 401K accounts. I'd do it today...I think. But you're right, he is offering ideas.

To those who say the fact that Obama has a plan is better than McCain having no plan. I beg to differ. How does this plan really help our economy? You know...in the long run.

Here's how I see it:

All those guys that can't make their house payments get free rent for another three months before they default. Great plan, and that's not all:

Obama also proposes a two year tax holiday on withdrawals from 401K plans. This will encourage millions of people to withdraw money from their retirement plans. These massive withdrawals from retirement plans translates directly to a massive sale of stock, and send the markets crashing worse than anything we've seen recently, and sent the US plunging into the crevace that we've been trying so hard to avoid in recent weeks / months.

And what happens down the line when these idiots decide to retire? Oops, not enough money in the 401K, I guess ONCE AGAIN, responsible citizens will have to pay the price.

This plan' is a complete and utter disaster in the making.

"Obama also proposes a two year tax holiday on withdrawals from 401K plans."

I could be wrong, but I believe it's a 2-yr holiday on retirees being FORCED to sell stocks as part of a minimum distribution requirement for those over 70 and a half.

For those folks, the minimum amount required to withdraw is set on January 1st, and must be taken by the end of the year. The amount may now be a much larger % than the actuarial tables (or prudence) would suggest.

While suspending it is one reaction, perhaps a more tempered one would be to allow the minimum to be taken out based on ANY balance in the year, not just the January 1st number. Bottom line, it advantages the wealthy and others who don't need the money immediately.

Back to the discussion on health care. What does this do to the deficit?

How does he believe he will pay for all this?

Is the $600B mentioned in *addition* to the $800B in cost he would legislate?

DANFORTH

(Shhhhhhhhhh Let the Rush/Seanbots create their own definition of reality. That's what they're used to. No need to rock the boat and wake them from their NeoConadonian fantasies. Shhhhhhhhh)

Obama, the great socialist and robinhood!

Senator Barack Obama on Monday expanded his economic platform, including proposals to spur new jobs, to give Americans penalty-free access to retirement savings to help them through the downturn, to urge a 90-day moratorium on home foreclosures and to lend money to strapped local and state governments.

Obama's a socialist//

Posted by Unclesam

Ya, I heard that the other day on a TV broadcast of a McCain/Palin event.

Is that this week's buzzword?

I think it was the same rally the guy had a Curious George doll with an Obama hat, and the old lady insisted "Obama's an Arab" - until McCain grabbed the mike and suggested otherwise. The old lady then said, Oh, really?

Lots of "short buses' in the parking lot to drive their fans home I'd guess.

The main new proposals would:

for the next two years, give businesses a $3,000 income-tax credit for each new full-time employee they hire above the number in their current workforce;

allow savers with tax-favored Individual Retirement Accounts and 401(k)'s to withdraw 15 percent of those retirement savings, up to a maximum of $10,000, without paying a tax penalty as the law currently requires for withdrawals before age 59 and a half;

bar financial institutions that take advantage of the Treasury's rescue plan from foreclosing on the mortgages of any homeowners who are making "good-faith efforts" to make payments;

direct the Treasury and the Federal Reserve to create a temporary facility for loans to state and local governments, similar to the Fed's new arrangement to loan corporations money by buying their commercial paper, which are the I.O.U.s that help businesses with daily operating expenses like payrolls.

Anamerican-
And, your problem with this, as stated by McCain today is that.....what?

Anamerican-
You're stating proposals that make absolute sense from the one candidate who has a fuckin' clue as if they were the harshest attacks imaginable.

I seriously don't get you.

Again, because I'm conservative and Obama is liberal, I am hoping for a McCain win.

If McCain wins, I will rejoice but never gloat. I will weep for Obama from compassion and will wish for him to come again in 2016.

If Obama wins, then that is that: I will accept the voice of the majority voters.

Warning: at this point do not take too much comfort from the polls --- there is a silent majority out there who have never been polled and they will strike a NOVEMBER SURPRISE for the nation.

(I still believe McCain will be the 44th)

God bless America!

"Again, because I'm conservative and Obama is liberal, I am hoping for a McCain win."

So...it wouldn't matter who was running on the repulican ticket, you'd vote for them qualified or not, simply out of party loyalY.

Proves my point that partisanship is a bad, bad thing.

Party before country. How Un-American.

all desperate gimmicks delaying the inevitable, but at least he's articulating something while McCain is just blabbering about kicking ass.

#32 | Posted by takitez at 2008-10-13 09:19 PM

Guess I'm probably late to the party, but after the above post I see who Takitez used to be.

I consider McCain qualified, and he and Palin share my values more than Obama does.

"I consider McCain qualified, and he and Palin share my values more than Obama does."

Then perhaps that all you should have stated.

Instead, by your own admission, it's a party issue...not who's running and their values. By your previous statement, it wouldn't matter who was running...you're voting republican.

That's cool. I just could't do that.

LOL. You guys are pathetic.

The job incentive plan? That's laughable. Businesses are already struggling because people are cutting back. They don't need more employees because the demand for their products are down. And whoopy doo, here's Obama offering a $3000 tax credit (that they will likely be able to use until they file in April and it's only a credit not a deduction) for a job that will cost them that amount many times over. If they don't have enough profit to afford to hire someone else and nothing for this person to do, it is a useless offer.

And what happened to his stance on the foreclosure idea - the same idea he said was "diastrous" when Hillary suggested it.

In San Antonio on Tuesday, Obama said that Clinton's foreclosure freeze was potentially "disastrous," rewarding "people who made this problem worse" by benefiting banks that profit from high mortgage rates.

A "blanket freeze," Obama added, might "drive rates through the roof for those trying to buy or refinance. Experts say the value of homes will fall even more, and even more families could face foreclosure."

It might just be me, but isn't today's economic climate even worse now then it was at the time he opposed it?

AU, you were wrong about the 401K.

This is what it says on Obama's website:

Relief to Families: Penalty-Free Withdrawals from IRAs and 401(k)s in 2008 and 2009. Obama is calling for new legislation to allow families to withdraw 15% of their retirement savings up to a maximum of $10,000 without facing a tax-penalty this year (including retroactively) and next year.

Just like it said in the NYT.

Furthermore, the only businesses that will be able to afford to hire new employees are the ones that he is going to hit with higher taxes.

So families can withdraw 10K of their 401s tax free? BFD. Half the dipshits reading this don't understand that you'd be paying that back to yourself, with interest.

But again, he's trying and that's important to me.

So families can withdraw 10K of their 401s tax free? BFD. Half the dipshits reading this don't understand that you'd be paying that back to yourself, with interest.

what's the message? To withdraw you retirement and spend it, we don't want you to save.

But again, he's trying and that's important to me.
#41 | Posted by johnnylock at 2008-10-13 10:05 PM |

A bad plan that can cause more problems down the road? I would rather not have any plan than one that causes more problems than it solves.

Actually, all of Obama's proposals make a lot of sense.

Here's McCain's economic proposal:

Ayers is a terrorist, God is on our side, and I was a POW.

And isn't there supposedly a credit crisis - where the banks are not loaning money? So exactly how does this policy help encourage a bank to lend more? If a bank can't foreclose on a property that is not paying, then the bank has put up money for something that is useless to them.

Would your bank want to lend money if they face plans such as these down the road? Banks were too free with their money in the past. With the withdrawals from retirement accounts and the foreclosure plan in the same stroke, I can see banks paying the very minimum interest to those that do keep their money in the bank and only lending money to those that pay at least a 1/3 of more down.

Betelg, please expound on the long term benefits of his plan. It should be interesting.

Banks are loaning money, just not as much as is needed.

Assets are only worth about 1/2 of what they are currently valued at so the banks will give you the loan, 1/2 of it.

Anamerican-
You seem to be among the few deaf dumb and blind (Along with McCain) who don't seem to grasp the fact that the circumstances of the economy that Bush wrought are on the verge of collapse.

There is nothing in Obama's plan that has anything long term.

In fact, notice nothing about setting regulation to stop these loan shark financial institutions from doing this same thing again.

This obama plan is nothing more then a back door to the bush plan to get people to consume. bush did it through housing and leveraging your assets, now obama is doing it through your retirement. You will lose both now.

Well, enlighten me. Point for point in the plan on how it is going to help the economy in the long run. Instead of your standard answer of "you are deaf, dumb and blind."

Anamerican-
How do you feel about the new Paulson plan to buy stakes in the entities the taxpayer bails out? This was, coincidentally, the plan favored by Paul Krugman, who was just awarded the Nobel Prize in economics. Upon word of this new approach, and the actions of European banks, the market rebounded almost a thousand points today.

I don't think you understand the fragility of your world.

Apparently, his tax plan sucks too.

It's a clever pitch, because it lets him pose as a middle-class tax cutter while disguising that he's also proposing one of the largest tax increases ever on the other 5%. But how does he conjure this miracle, especially since more than a third of all Americans already pay no income taxes at all? There are several sleights of hand, but the most creative is to redefine the meaning of "tax cut."

For the Obama Democrats, a tax cut is no longer letting you keep more of what you earn. In their lexicon, a tax cut includes tens of billions of dollars in government handouts that are disguised by the phrase "tax credit." Mr. Obama is proposing to create or expand no fewer than seven such credits for individuals:

There is nothing in Obama's plan that has anything long term.

Of course not. It's an immediate and actionable step to save your asses from steering your parents to the most nutritious dog food.

Well, enlighten me. Point for point in the plan on how it is going to help the economy in the long run. Instead of your standard answer of "you are deaf, dumb and blind."

Clearly by your postings it would be a waste of time, you are not educated enough to enlighten because you are not yet able to grasp the issues involved.

We need people to start CONSUMING so this SERVICE economy can begin to roll. We don't make anything but we need consumption so the last throw is our savings and what is left of it.

It's an immediate and actionable step to save your asses from steering your parents to the most nutritious dog food.

My ass is just fine, for you, don't be in the woods with horns.

Keep your eye on the market, Betelg. Let's see if it holds up.

Let me ask you a serious question. How would you like the government to take full control of the banks in this country? Do you think it would be a good thing or a bad thing?

AnAmerican-
Link to a news article from WSJ and I'll actually read it. Their opinion page is an openly ridiculed joke.

Obamawhore: Let's have them take money out of retirement so that when they still lose their fucking houses they will be even more in the hole. Also, let's give them 90 days to dream about being able to make the payments so that they will vote for me.

Pigs at the trough...

anamerican-
It worked out for Sweden, and the taxpayers there actually got a temporary stake in the entities they were bailing out, with a much better chance to recoup their investment.

Again, I don't think you understand the seriousness of this crisis.

So, Moneywar, after the money in the savings is spent, conditions will return to their current state.

Anamerican-
Why do you suppose the Bush administrationn and Paulson are even considering this? (Because they don't want to be the stupid SOB's who are blamed for a global depression, and this is their best option)

Current state???

What state is that?

This is nothing but a dressing to cover the already saturated dressing.

You can keep poking holes in your throat to help you breath, but eventually you going to hit something vital and than how is the body going to react.

I'll admit that I, a mere taxpayer, may not know everything that will fix the economy. But I am not confident in quick fixes that may just delay the inevitable or worse.

the more I ponder this, what family, with children at home or in college, has at least 100K in their 401? I'm betting way less then there should be.

but if you had 100K in your 401, would you want to take 10% out of it? what kind of effect would that have on a 40 year old male, assuming retirement at 65, a 50K yearly salary (that won't increase -- for simplicity's sake),an 8% return on investment, 10% contribution, and an employer match of 50% of 6%?Bob takes out $10K and now has $90Kamount at retirement $1,111,904Bill does not take out $10K has $100Kamount at retirement $1,180,389The disparity is more profound the less you have in your 401. Click the link below to check your situation.

In sum, it's really not that big of a deal to take it out if you are starting with a nice pile, but I wouldn't if I had less than 50K. But remember, there are folks out there that are in situations where they are so desperate they'll take it no matter what and it's going to end up hurting them THE MOST in the long run.

sorry for you sensitive ones, that scenario could be for a female too -- I'm a victim of too many of those darn term life insurance commercials.

"40 year old male non-smoker...."

Real estate is overvalued by 20-50 percent. The house that costs 500k is in demand by people who can actually finanace 300-350k.

Thus prices are going to fall. One way or another. And no amount of payoffs between groups of rich asshole buddies is going to change that simple fact.

I wouldn't take money out of my 401K, but then I'm not strapped. If things were tight, and they are for some of my coworkers, this might be a respite from getting further in debt. Chances are, you won't be able to take out a home equity loan - so what other options do you have? I already know one person at work that took a loan from her 401K.

Retirement will always take a back seat to staying in your home, keeping you from bankruptcy, or worse.

At least it is an option.

holy crap, sign me up for an html class. that big post above formatted like a Faulkner novel.

Retirement will always take a back seat to staying in your home, keeping you from bankruptcy, or worse.

At least it is an option.

Yav,

Not sure if I agree with you here.

The whole idea of 401K's when created was to allow corporations to use the money for growth and help the labor force save for retirement.

What was unintended was the investment for corporations was used to grow investments in china while devaluing our assets here and allowing the theft of savings.

Taking peoples savings will do nothing in long term but make this matter far worse. The governments eyes are now focussed towards Social security, trillions to be had there.

Not sure if I agree with you here.

That's fine, of course!

Moneywar, I don't favor it, I understand it. I've never been a fan of the "tyranny of the immediate" - it works against strategy. Sometimes it must be dealt with before moving on.

The promise of abundant food years from now doesn't satisfy today's immediate starvation.

This is just exploration into why this idea would be offered, what benefit it may offer.

Yav,

I don't like it because it ruins peoples retirement and savings for trying to save those very corporations that stole the first set of assets.

Who is Obama working for, certainly not the people.

Just another bush mantra being pushed behind by obama.

I don't like it because it ruins peoples retirement and savings for trying to save those very corporations that stole the first set of assets.

And where are those assets now? How can we get them back?

Someone's going to pay - and it's going to be the tax payer, directly or indirectly. Kill the corporations, no jobs. Fairness is sharing the burden. There needs to be more options.

This is a short term option. Things turn around, you should be allowed to make up the difference. If things don't turn around, your 401K isn't going to be worth anything anyway.

もう、おやすみを言う時間だね。

Both parties passed the bailout for the rich fucks. That is all you should need to know.

Pigs at the trough...

"もう、おやすみを言う時間だね。 "

You speak Nihongo, Yav?

No nulli,

I do.

Ah yes, NOBama "The Messiah" will fix the economy.

Just like the First Messiah, who fed the crowd on two loaves of bread, the new "Messiah" will reduce taxes on 95% of working people... even though only 60% of those working people actually PAY taxes!

So how will the New Messiah reduce the taxes paid to below zero? Well in the old days of the 1980's that was called WELFARE. But we don't have WELFARE anymore. So what will the New Messiah call this miracle? A reverse Income Tax! Take from the "rich" and give to the not so poor. Tax "people" who make over $250,000 a year. Who are these people who dare to make more than the Central Committee determines that the Workers of the World decide is enough?
Well one of them is the fellow that NOBama was talking to on TV today. He makes $280,000 a tear. Do you know what he wanted to do with that money? Open a business. hire people who need jobs. Well NOBama doesn't want that to happen so he has decided to Tax, Tax, Tax them until they can no longer afford to open new businesses.

Now I will be pounced upon for saying these blasphemous things and told that this isn't true. But don't ask me about it. Ask the 153 families who had their jobs ripped from them by NOBama's wife Michelle when she closed the profitable pickle and relish plant they worked at in Colorado. But they don't matter since they were almost al Hispanic people, not Black. Oh but then again, you can ask the Black families who had their loved ones dumped out of Michelle's hospital because they were too poor to pay at a "Not for Profit" hospital that made almost a QUARTER BILLION DOLLARS in PROFIT last year while NOBama was earmarking a million dollars so they could build a new portico for the hospital.

I just can wait for NOBama to become President so all of you left wing clowns can reap what you have sown. Being from Illinois, I have already seen that Bush is a piker next to NOBama when it comes to ineptitude. Now you will learn for yourselves. Enjoy.

Here's some late-breaking news for GOPiggies: Your "messiah" line about Obama is (A) lame and (B) old. Just like your candidate.

The politicians of our age have learned that they can secure their positions and increase their power by distributing the largess of the people to buy votes and the voters have realized they can vote themselves a ever increasing share of the pie.

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."

Thomas Jefferson

Anti-Semitic Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan says of Democratic presidential nominee Sen. Barack Obama: "The Messiah is absolutely speaking."

I was not aware that Islam had a Messiah. But according to some, they do. Here is one explanation given that could explain Farrahkan's labeling Obama as the "Messiah".

The Shia version of Islam is based upon a messiah or "Mahdi" who will come at the end time as a universal savior. The Sunni-Shia fracture started when Mohammed's lust for a precocious nine year old girl named Aisha, resulted in him making a deal with the father, a loyal general, to leave the Islamic empire with him rather than his heir-apparent son-in-law, at the price of his prepubescent daughter. When Mohammad died, the power grabbing started and the son-in-law was murdered, his infant son disappeared. Shias today will beat themselves bloody and slash their heads, even children, in frantic devotion and remembrance of this vile deed. They belive the Mahdi, will be a reincanation of either the little child, or the son-in-law himself.

The son-in-law's name? - Hussein.

And now you know the rest of the story.

#80 | Posted by anamerican at 2008-10-14 06:57 AM

LOL

Thanks for the laugh.

Fun way to start the day.

I couldn't resist, Doc. Louis Farrakhan pinned the label on Obama and it stuck. Your blaming the GOPiggies for labeling Obama with it has been debunked.

I'm laughing at GOPiggies letting Louis Farrakhan tell them what their talking points are.

The irony is sweeter than Mandarin Orange ice cream.

You never mentioned Farrakhan when you said it, Doc.

Here's some late-breaking news for GOPiggies: Your "messiah" line about Obama is (A) lame and (B) old. Just like your candidate.

#78 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2008-10-14 06:29 AM

You have learned well from the Messiah. Deflect and back peddle. Congratulations. He would be proud.

GOPiggies citing Louis Farrakhan.
Better than napalm in the morning.

why do you think there is a penalty on early withdrawal ? you will still have to pay taxes on what you take out.

why do you think there is a penalty on early withdrawal ? you will still have to pay taxes on what you take out.#86 | Posted by semtex111 at 2008-10-14 07:39 AM |

Obama's reaction: "Oops..ahh...ahh....I..I..well
..you know...everyone who is fortunate enough to have a retirement savings...should..ah...help those you...ah..are not as ...ah...fortunate. For the good of everybodah"

McCain's "campaign" announced on Saturday that he'd be making a major economic plan speech on Monday. But that was before Sunday, when the "campagin" announced he wouldn't be making a major economic plan on Monday afterall. Then on Monday the "campaign" announced he might make a major encomomic plan speech on Tuesday. Or maybe not. Leadership you can count on. At least the boob's consistently erratic.

For the good of everybodah"

Yeah, spread the wealth. I don't know about everybody else but I worked hard to get mine together. Obama is free to spread his as thin as he likes.

you will still have to pay taxes on what you take out.

From Obama's website:

"Relief to Families: Penalty-Free Withdrawals from IRAs and 401(k)s in 2008 and 2009. Obama is calling for new legislation to allow families to withdraw 15% of their retirement savings up to a maximum of $10,000 without facing a tax-penalty this year (including retroactively) and next year."

From his speech:

"I welcome Senator McCain's proposal to waive the rules that currently force our seniors to withdraw from their 401(k)s even when the market is bad. I think that's a good idea, but I think we need to do even more. Since so many Americans will be struggling to pay the bills over the next year, I propose that we allow every family to withdraw up to 15% from their IRA or 401(k) up to a maximum of $10,000 without any fine or penalty throughout 2009. This will help families get through this crisis without being forced to make painful choices like selling their homes or not sending their kids to college."

"And now you know the rest of the story."

Obama announces an economic plan to help Americans cope and dipshits who support the guy who can't make up his mind if he has a plan or not just play the Muslim card again and again. Embarrassing.

Danni, no plan is better than a bad economic plan. But, hey, Obama is trying to get votes so anything more he can throw out there to sweeten the pie for the have nots will probably earn him even more.

Frankly, with the current unknowns in how the stock market is going to shake out after the bail, I would rather neither one of them propose anything right now.

ANAMERICAN then tell John McConfused to make up his mind if he is going to propose a plan or not.
I like Obama's plan, was seriously considering taking 401K funds out and paying the penalty and so this will be great. Funding infrastructure repair which is very necessary will create jobs, help raise wages which is the basic change necessary for us to dig our way out of the recession which righties denied was even real for so long due to the pretend statistics which have been used because of the housing bubble's skewing of our economy.

ANAMERICAN then tell John McConfused to make up his mind if he is going to propose a plan or not.

Yeah, sure. I'll be sure to tell him the next time we go out to dinner. LOL

Danni,

I didn't know you were one of the "dirty rich" people that actually HAD a retirement. How dare you? You should be giving your extra money to the poor and buying cigarettes for the ACORN project in your area.

All kidding aside, has anyone considered that a 401(k) is invested in the stock market? What do you think will happen when these people withdraw 10% of their money for a quick fix now? Don't you think that will cause the markets to deflate further? This makes as much sense as the old people who take out loans to "take advantage of the equity in their house" and then loose their house when they can't pay back the loan. To his credit, is it a way to insure that more people are at the government trough, hoping for their social security, and complaining that it is not enough to live on.

"Don't you think that will cause the markets to deflate further?"

Quite possibly true but shouldn't 401K owners have the same right to withdraw their funds while the market is up rather than just be forced to sit by and watch their savings evaporate???
If we were to be denied the right to withdraw without penalty then every other investor in the stock market should be too.
This has always been my biggest complaint about 401Ks, our savings are basicly trapped and subject to the market forces yet we are penalized for trying to snatch a profit or prevent a loss.

I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.'

From Dreams of My Father:

Yes Obamaboy will promise anything to anybody and the libs drink it up!

I would encourage you to read the entirety of that passage sir. Or was it your intent to mislead?

Danni,

My feelings are mixed on your argument. First, the 401(k) is funded with "pre-tax" dollars. Therefore, if someone withdraws money that is in one of those funds, they would be accessing money that has never been taxed and should be assessed the taxes due at that time. Second, the idea of the "penalty" is two fold: 1. to force someone to exercise the discipline to leave their retirement money alone and 2. to insure that everyone else will do the same, thus preventing the wild swings caused by "panic selling". To those ends, the greater damage that will be caused by 10% of the 401(k)'s being liquidated makes Obama's plan a bad one in my mind.

On the other hand, I am a big private property kind of guy. Unlike your social security account, your 401(k) is YOURS. Therefore, I do have some issue with idea that you can't get it. However, every holder of a 401(k) did enter into a contract with someone to establish the 401(k), in which they agreed to certain restrictions on their assets for a certain period of time in exchange for certain benefits.

Therefore, I suppose that if you want to want to trade your stocks as freely as you describe, I suggest you open an Ameritrade account and trade away. (You will probably very quickly acquire a hatred of the capital gains tax and understand why is should not exist.)

our savings are basicly trapped and subject to the market forces yet we are penalized for trying to snatch a profit or prevent a loss.

Bull shit! You can manage a 401K just like other accounts. If you see something coming you can transfer to a money market or other stable asset. Then when things start to move again you reallocate them again. Sure you can't pull them out to buy fast food or big screen TVs but that's why you get the tax savings. Then when you are older and your taxable income is lower you can withdraw it at a lower tax burden. At least until they decide to call it a "loophole" and want a bigger piece of it.

Dr. Visit...
Barack Obama got out of the shower and was drying off when he looked in
the mirror and noticed he was white from the neck up to the top of his
head.

In sheer panic and fearing he was turning white and might have to start
working for a living, he called his doctor and told him of his problem.

The doctor advised him to come to his office immediately. After an
examination, the doctor mixed a concoction of dark brown liquid, gave it to
Barack, and told him to drink it all.

Barack drank the concoction and replied, 'That tasted like bullshit!'

The doctor replied, 'It was, you were a quart low.'

"Bull shit! You can manage a 401K just like other accounts."

Riiight. The market rose 900 points yesterday, there is no way a 401K holder could get in on that nor any way I could now sell to avoid the fall I think will probably come.
Probably an account with Ameritrade like Citizen suggested would be smarter for me. If Obama's plan is approved I am going to close the 401K and do just that I think. Hopefully, as he suggested, I will learn to hate capital gains taxes. I would love to have an income that made taxation a real problem....if you know what I mean.

thats all okay because I just read the quote that I heard yesterday from barry and the main line ther

"SPREAD THE WEALTH"

you are welcome COMRADES for that info

McCain announces economic plan for average Americans: "Let them eat cake."

Danni,

Before closing the 401(k), may I suggest that you speak with some of the brokerage houses (like Ameritrade)? I have a ROTH IRA that I manage just like my stock market account. (The obvious difference being the tax benefit of the ROTH.) I believe that you may be able to do the same thing with a 401(k) (although I am admittedly uncertain.) That would at least give you the mobility that you are looking for.

I dumped 12,000 in American Funds EuroPacific Gr R4 at 4:30 AM yesterday. It went up 3.32 per share. I didn't get the full rise but I got most of it. Not huge but it's about 157 more than I had yesterday.

good for you guys...........

so will you say anything all about the bush administraion having ANYTHING AT all to do with your good moves?

or was it all just lucky and because of barry?????

let them eat cake???????????????///

wow.......you really are funny this morning........

"so will you say anything all about the bush administraion having ANYTHING AT all to do with your good moves?"

Right after you admit their complicity in the 4,000 point drop.

"Bull shit! You can manage a 401K just like other accounts."

It depends on the particular 401K plan. If it is invested only in the company's stock, e.g., you can't. If it offers a menu of account options, like a Vanguard accounts menu, you can move between those accounts. And if a money market account is one of the options, you can move your money in there to avoid possible downslides.

Danni, think carefully before you withdrawal from a 401K plan. You will not only have to pay tax on an income basis (not capital gains basis), but you will also have to pay a 10% penalty.

I could be wrong, but I believe it's a 2-yr holiday on retirees being FORCED to sell stocks as part of a minimum distribution requirement for those over 70 and a half.

#23 | Posted by Danforth

* * * *
You are wrong. It's for everybody.

Guess what you should do? If you don't need the money to pay your rent or your crack dealer, take out the $10,000, and stick it into a Roth IRA. That way the government never gets to tax the money.

"I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."
this is Fiction, a common trait of right wingers, they love to hate and lie. Call them on their BS!
This is a corruption of a quote from Obama's book The Audacity of Hope. It is from a section that talks about the concerns of immigrants who are American citizens.

Here is the accurate and more complete quote:
"Of course, not all my conversations in immigrant communities follow this easy pattern. In the wake of 9/11, my meetings with Arab and Pakistani Americans, for example, have a more urgent quality, for the stories of detentions and FBI questioning and hard stares from neighbors have shaken their sense of security and belonging. They have been reminded that the history of immigration in this country has a dark underbelly; they need specific assurances that their citizenship really means something, that America has learned the right lessons from the Japanese internments during World War II, and that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."

"That way the government never gets to tax the money."

Untrue. They still tax it as income; they just don't charge the 10% early withdrawal penalty.

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
Thomas Jefferson

------------

Like corporate welfare?

Or the current bailouts?

Untrue. They still tax it as income; they just don't charge the 10% early withdrawal penalty.

#112 | Posted by Danforth

* * * *

Negative. Retirement distributions from Roth IRA's aren't taxable as income. Never, ever. Thus, their appeal.

Ignore that last--I see what you're talking about now. Apologies.

#111 | Posted by onna
Kool aid Kool aid taste great , want to have some, cant wait!!!

Onna, you must be a writer or something...fiction of course. Actually Obamaboy probably never wrote the book that would take more than he has to give.

REINSURELAW, give me the book title and page number for you phony quote, and buy stock in General Foods,

ONNA TRY:

REINSURELAW first hightlights a phony quote, since he can't cofirm his lie he wants us to link to an Obama likes muslims site. This is why right wingers fail, they are low information voters, easily led (they have noserings inserted, makes it easier to lead them)

play close attention to tonights debate and get used to saying "President Obama"

ONNA MUST BE A MUSLIM WELFARE RECIPIENT. linking Muslims love Obama with Jihad sites must bother him. Obamaboy - liar extraordinary

including the elimination of most of the $80 billion in annual tax breaks that 401(k) investors receive.

What the HELL!!!!!

These guys want to start a revolution or what?

Obama's plan for economic recovery is to tax the shit out of everyone who works and give the money to "poor" people. And everyone knows what "poor" is lib code for.

"Obama's plan for economic recovery is to tax the shit out of everyone"

Guess what...he won't be able to do that, because the Republicans so fucked up the economy, Obama will have to tax the shit out of everyone and give the money to the Wall Street Welfare Queens. Have you been paying attention the last few days as Bush has given away over a trillion of your tax dollars?

Oh Jeez...the autism card again.

And did he just contradict himself regarding funding?