Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Monday, October 06, 2008

Stocks fell on Monday, with the Dow diving more than 500 points to below 10,000 for the first time in four years, as investors feared the widening fallout from the credit crisis would drag the economy into recession.

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skeert money?

mccain DID say it was but a tourniquet on a bleeding wound. or something like that.

I would hope they don't have to amputate then.

Poor Bushites. Supported a Loser and it shows. Why were You so stupid to vote for Dubya?? What a sad State of affairs we are in. Thanks Bushites.

Larry

I'm really concerned now, because Corky and Nullifidian said that the bailout would save my 401k.


I'm not surprised that an Iraqi Cream Pie would believe in magic.

What a rip off!

Banks still afraind to lend, in other words, no relief for credit markets. It never fails. Nothing really changed after 9/11, governments have throught history used crises, both real and invented, to take from the people, be it power, freedom, money, etc.

The markets are dropping because stock holders are realizing that Bush will continue as president until January and there is still a tiny chance that John McBush could win the election. As we get closer to the inauguration of Obama things will improve.

Talk about believing in magic!

The markets have come to the sobering realization that the Bush administration's $700 billion rescue plan won't work quickly to unfreeze the credit markets, and that many banks are still having difficulty gaining access to cash. That's caused investors to exit stocks and move money into the relative safety of government debt.

www.msnbc.msn.com

relative safety of government debt.

With an extra $700 billion out there, I would not call it "safe" any longer.

-You learn something new every day.


It is so nice to have an expert source on such matters. Have you and IraqiB been "friends" for very long?

The market are tanking because the controlling interests want them to tank. How else will they capture and consolidate capuital and control of the economy? Only this time, they are not interstested in the american economy, they are going after the other countries economies. Just watch.

You people should really spend a few precious minutes reading up on the circumstances surrounding the crash of '29.

That was a manufactured crash whose sole purpose was; 1)consolidate all the banking interests and capital resources under the umbrella of the controlling families, 2)make america accept the federal reserve system as opposed to the gold standard. That way they can determine dollar value and set finance terms and be able to call in margin loans at will.

This so-called crisis is exactly the same. It was manufactured. Everyone knew that a person making 30k/year couldn't make a 2000/month payment (the payment that was 400 until the interest rates went up. Guess who controlls the interest rates?

As time goes by, independent banks and individuals and foriegn economies find that they can do business cheaper and easier that the big houses and some of them become very successful. Every now and then, you have to crash the system so the controllers can regain control through artificial means, since they can't compete on a level playing field. The problem is that the independents do not have insider knowledge of what the federal reserve is going to do, as the controllers do.

So, America, go back to sleep. Everything is taken care of for you. You have no voice and you have no opinion unless that opinion is to hand the american economy over to a small group of people (which has already happened). Now the rest of the world will do the same.

There is a way to stop this but it will never happen because it requires americans to make sacrifice and actually have a real backbone (as opposed to the one the people pretend to have).

Repeal the bailout, and NOW before greater damage is done.

The conventional wisdom of the legislators and government executives was opposed to the gut feelings of the populace, and subsequent events demonstrated that vox populi should be followed.

The bailout swindle will do very little to bring liquidity to the institutions that hold bad mortgage packages. There was enough social engineering with legislation intended to extend home ownership to people who could not afford it, the Democrat notion that the only reason that there is not more wealth is because of "bad guys" refusing to create it because they being "mean," and wanted people to suffer. This social engineering model has been demonstrated to be wrong.

Now that the profiteers have exploited the situation, they want to keep their paper gains. Let the market fall and the real estate market crash to reduce housing costs and make housing available again at reasonable prices.

The biggest culprit here, the enabler, is the government and social engineering activists. But instead of now assessing blame, recognize that we're going to get hurt with that hurt not being ameliorated by attempting to bail out the profiteers and malefactors to ease their descent. Don't worry about the sharpies. They'll rise again. They are expert economic manipulators, whose exuberance drove them to excess.

They bought bad high risk paper. Let them lose their equities. New sources of capital will be established. In the meantime, foreign holders of American currency will go on a buying spree to gobble up assets at a fire sale. But wait, the value of the American dollar is increasing vis a vis foreign currencies. How do you account for that anomaly.

Let those holding bad paper, sink. As the equities in homes decline more and more paper will be worth less, but not entirely worthless. The homes will be sold for less after being foreclosed. New paper will be issued by more provident lenders. The physical assets are still there.

Banking is a lucrative sector of the economy. There will be replacement sources of credit.

Repeal the bailout.



-The biggest culprit here, the enabler, is the government and social engineering activists.


Yes, don't pay any attention to the men behind the curtain who had to use physicists to package these products,then use insurance by another name to avoid regulation and sell them.

Honky Johnson don't.

www.drudge.com

#9 | Posted by danni at 2008-10-06 11:52 AM

The markets are dropping because stock holders are realizing that Bush will continue as president until January ...

Come on Danni. I reckon that you despise "stock holders" and anyone who has accumulated any assets, but you don't consider them "that ignorant and stupid" that they were unaware when Bush's term was scheduled to end, do you? Do you really think that they were unaware of when the current presidential term would end? Really danni.
... and there is still a tiny chance that John McBush could win the election.

"Mc Bush?" Hmm. That must be a candidate of some little heralded small party. What's its name?
As we get closer to the inauguration of Obama things will improve.

Indeed. The social engineers, who devised the bailout, and who got us into this situation intially will use the same wisdom they displayed in devising the Community Redevelopment Act and other allied legislation, and create worse problems.

Expect an economic debacle if there is an Obama administration, and a severe curtailment of liberties as an adjunct to attempts to remedy the situation.

Attempts will be made to devise no longer novel economic fixes. We have viewed the excesses of socialism and other idealistic systems, which impose their ideology as a worthwhile goal whatever the cost in suppression of liberties and the killings of hundreds of millions of people, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, et al. And they don't work. It was the removal of stifling restrictions that enabled economic development to occur and assets to be created. But I suppose that we'll go to the poisoned pond again in the hope of getting a drink with catastrophic results.

Johnson, I agree with your fix (repeal the bail-out and let the market fix it) but not the analysis.

Social engineering never exists outside a paradigm of grabbing power, control and money. social engineering is a means to an end and that end is to grab power, period.

Thsi is what we are currently witnessing in real time.

gravity?

Anyone who expected the same people who helped create the crisis and who failed to see it coming to fix it in a week is an idiot.

The bailout is a travesty.

I'm not a conspiracy nut, but I believe we are witnessing the takeover of a one world government -- the "New World Order" as Daddy Bush coined the term.

$800 trillion = fait accompli

#16 | Posted by Corky at 2008-10-06 12:15 PM

-The biggest culprit here, the enabler, is the government and social engineering activists.

Yes, don't pay any attention to the men behind the curtain who had to use physicists to package these products,then use insurance by another name to avoid regulation and sell them.

Honky Johnson don't.


Corky, the people who contrived the scheme that provided the opportunity to the slicksters, were the social engineers motivated to accomplish a goal of creating housing assets without recognizing what would occur. Money was piped in and prices rose.

The mechanism, the removal of prudent lending policies by government mandate, mandatory lending to minorities and the poor with coercion of the lenders, was initiated by the social engineers. There were loans made without deposit of any equity by buyers. Loans were made without verification of income, and without evaluation of ability to repay, as a government mandated procedure.

The social engineers undoubtedly were shortsighted, and did not anticipate that the influx of capital would result in increased prices of housing. They also did not anticipate the consequence of their programs as in their zeal and with their sense of euphoria, they were oblivious to systemic contraints on what they initiated.

What to do with only partially secured paper that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac purchased without regard to its value. Hmmm.

This paper was on the market and accorded a worth far above what should have been its actual value, and the smart boys then contrived ways to market it and trade it as if it were worth more than it was with promises of excessive returns and other inducements.

It reminds me of a probably apochryphal story of an old ship that was permanently berthed in the harbor in New York with a cargo of canned sardines in its hold. The players traded the product for some 30 years, and then some novice bought into the ownership chain. He immediately went down to the harbor to view his purchase, and sampled the product. Well, the sardines were spoiled, and stank when the cans were opened. They were not a fit comestible.

The irate novice buyer went to the seller and addressed him with a string of profanities, anticipating an abject apology for the vending this worthless product and expected a willingness to return his purchase price. Instead, the novice buyer received a barrage of reciprocated invective with the seller raging, "You stupid so and so, don't you know that them sardines is for trading, not for eating."

Them securities were worth far less then was apparent, and were created for trading, Corky, and never were intended to represent real value among the cognoscenti. Unfortunately, reality intruded and the little game is at an end. But why bail anyone out in this futile effort to mitigate loss and pretend that the impact can be dampened. It may be delayed for a short time, but the hit will need to be absorbed. Let it be felt by these traders and knowledgeable purchasers of these mortgages, not others.


The Garn-St. Germain Depository Institutions Act of 1982 (Pub.L. 97-320, H.R. 6267, enacted 1982-10-15) is an Act of Congress, that deregulated the Savings and Loan industry. This Act turned out to be one of many contributing factors that led to the Savings and Loan crisis of the late 1980s.[1]

The bill, whose full title was "An Act to revitalize the housing industry by strengthening the financial stability of home mortgage lending institutions and ensuring the availability of home mortgage loans," was a Reagan Administration initiative.[2]

The bill is named after its sponsors, Congressman Fernand St. Germain, Democrat of Rhode Island, and Senator Jake Garn, Republican of Utah. The bill had broad support in Congress, with co-sponsors including Charles Schumer and Steny Hoyer.[3] The bill passed overwhelmingly, by a margin of 272-91 in the House.[4]

Title VIII, Alternative Mortgage Transactions, allowed Adjustable rate mortgages [5]

en.wikipedia.org

One more time: "a Reagan Administration initiative."

The problem in a nutshell.

Entitlement mentality. And it will get worse under an Obama presidency.


I see, White Boy.

So the fact that some mortgages were faulty to begin with means that the blame lies with attempts to make the American Dream more accessible, and not to the last 8 years of deregulation of activity involving said mortgages that allowed Wall Street criminals to profit?

Go back racism. You are much better at it.

"All in all, I think we hit the jackpot."
-Ronald Reagan

www.reagan.utexas.edu

ZING! you win the prize, chris. this type of ponzi scheme is alive and well.

#18 | Posted by Lipzoidial at 2008-10-06 12:34 PM

Social engineering never exists outside a paradigm of grabbing power, control and money. social engineering is a means to an end and that end is to grab power, period.

Thsi is what we are currently witnessing in real time.


On the contrary, Lipz, we do agree on this.

By the way, I don't intend "Lipz" to be offensive. If you object to its use, I won't use it again. I had someone with that fragment in his name attending school at the time I did. I didn't know him, but his name was unique and I remember it.

"Entitlement mentality. And it will get worse under an Obama presidency."

Last resort Republican tactic....blame minorities.

Entitlement is just code for B L A C K !

Never ever consider the billionaires and millionaires who were running the banks, corporations, government.

The problem in a nutshell.

Entitlement mentality. And it will get worse under an Obama presidency.

#24 | Posted by anamerican

Uh, huh. Entitlement for corporate greed.

Unless you care to explain how social programs and the Wall Street crash are related I'm gonna have to come back and give you a Funny Flag (closest to 'Ridiculous Flag' available)

I've noticed you are prone to making ridiculous suppositions and statements in general.

danni - so dramatic - it's also code for "white trash" "welfare cases" "mentals" "lowlifes" "lazy bums" and the list goes on.

Entitlements, as in the trillions in unfunded Medicare and Social Security liabilities.

Dayummmmm they are sinking faster than a 1 ton man in a georgie swamp. My God how low will it sink. Dubya the WORST pResident ever bar none

Larry

"Unfortunately, this legislation does not deal with the important question of delivery of other financial services, including securities activities by banks and other depository institutions. But I'm advised that many in the Congress want to put this question at the top of the banking deregulatory agenda next year, and I would strongly endorse such an initiative and hope that at the same time, the Congress will consider other proposals for more comprehensive deregulation which the administration advanced during the 97th Congress.

Thank you all again. I'm very pleased to sign this Garn-St Germain Depository Institutions Act of 1982."

-Ronald Reagan

www.reagan.utexas.edu

Nanc, we don't call them bums anymore, we call freegans, look at the nooner, I posted a link.

Most folks are choosing to ignore the fact that without the housing bubble created by Greenspan and Bush we would not now have a mortgage crisis. Even if you accepted the poor logic of blaming people who didn't have the credit score or income to buy the properties they did you would still have property that was the collateral of the loans. That would be sold after foreclosure and the majority of that mortgage would be paid off. That is the problem, it isn't so much the default of mortgagees it is the falling value of the collateral. That is a direct result of the artifically created increase in values of most real estate in the US which supplied the equity loans which kept consumers spending and made the Bush economy appear healthy.
You can argue forever about regulations etc, but if property values had not grown so rapidly because of the low interest rates we would not have had the housing bubble, and Bush would not now even be president because we would have been in a recession in 2004.
Ask his Dad, he learned that lesson the hard way and blamed Alan Greenspan for it. Greenspan did not repeat the mistake of keeping interest rates at a reasonable level again.

9,803.05

9751.58

the market is adjusting itself.

Even if you accepted the poor logic of blaming people who didn't have the credit score or income to buy the properties they did you would still have property that was the collateral of the loans. That would be sold after foreclosure and the majority of that mortgage would be paid off.


Danni, not true. The housing prices went up during the time that these loans were given. When these people could not pay their loans, there was a glut on the market of foreclosed homes and the price went down. So the mortgage companies could not collect the principal on these homes.

Oh because a Republican is in charge and the stock market is Tanking it's now just a correction. God love Ya Nanc. Now that was good.

Larry

larry - did you sense my dripping sarcasm?

but - hey! the dollar's up!

"but - hey! the dollar's up!"

That is because the extortionists/terrorists now want 400 billion euros from the EU. Even though the Europeans agreed to work together every country is doing their own thing which affects credit and liquidity in other countries.

Will Asia be next?

No Nanc I always take Your words at face value. Forgive Me for doing so.

I just watched the video interview of the banking regulator who was present during the Keating 5 meetings.

Lincoln Savings & Loan failed because it owned real estate holdings - against the law.

This current mortgage mess is largely analogous. Because of deregulation, banks and other financial institutions created these exotice securities such as 'credit default swaps' that essentially allowed banks to co-mingle their mortgage loan portfolios with risky financial instruments to raise capital.

McCain and his 'former' chief economic adviser, Phil Gramm, made this whole mess possible in the first place.

No wonder they want to change the subject. How ironic that Palin, who's husband was a member of a secessionist group - Alaskan Independence Party, who HATE the United States, and who's former head blew himself up while making a bomb - are now calling Obama's patriotism into question with debunked implications that somehow 8 year old Obama and William Ayers were plotting against the U.S. together.

Laughable but not surprising tactics from a campaign who can't talk about an "economy who's fundamentals are strong" according to McCain of two weeks ago. Guess when your wife's really rich you wouldn't have a clue to begin with, and the only 'Joe Sixpack' you know is your gardener.

"face value"

Funny that in a financial thread you would use that phrase. If I were you I would want the Government to garantee for me the face value of Nanc's words.

...don't pay any attention to the men behind the curtain who had to use physicists to package these products,then use insurance by another name to avoid regulation and sell them. -- #16 Corky

Moment of clarity award.

This wasn't an unknown problem -- it was behind LTCM's collapse in the late '90's, and Warren Buffett referred to these types of securities as "financial weapons of mass destruction" back in 2002.

So now we're giving $700B to Henry Paulson, who did nothing to limit banks' holdings of these instruments, so that he can buy the ones no one else wants to buy. That way the firms that screwed up so badly will have cash to pay off their creditors and continue business as usual (because NOTHING in that bill changes the operating rules).

People wonder why market players don't believe these firms are any sounder than they were before the bailout?

question:

did ANYBODY here have trouble using their bank cards as debit cards this weekend or have trouble paying for goods with checks?

the only way we could make quick purchases this weekend was to use our bank card as a visa card - whuzzup widdat?

i may go to town to see if i can get money out at an atm using my debit card...i'm getting 'spicious...

Forest = The New World Order
Trees = How we got into this current mess.

Shinola = honest and constitutional governance
Shit = what we have now.

"So the mortgage companies could not collect the principal on these homes."

Exactly, and every day the value drops more and increases the size of the problem for those companies. If Greenspan hadn't used interest rates to prop up the Bush economy there would be no big deal about the foreclosures because the properties would still be worth as much as they were purchased for.

...the people who contrived the scheme that provided the opportunity to the slicksters, were the social engineers motivated to accomplish a goal of creating housing assets without recognizing what would occur. Money was piped in and prices rose. -- #22 Johnson

If it hadn't been mortgage-based securities, it would have been something else. Remember, LTCM over-leveraged using derivatives based on government bonds, mergers, and S&P 500 index. en.wikipedia.org

I'm not surprised that an Iraqi Cream Pie would believe in magic.

What a joke. That's EXACTLY what you were calling for with getting this bailout passed. Pure unadulterated magic.

If we don't pass the bailout, the markets are going in the tank!!!! Well we've passed the bailout and they are still going in the tank. So what now super genius? Lemme guess...regulation?

The market is correcting. No amount of bullshit meddling is going to stop it.


Phoenix

www.drudge.com

Danni, Danni.....true, Greenspan made it possible for some low-interest loans, but the law required banks to meet a "quota" of minority lending. The banks had to make loans for minorities or pay a stiff penalty. That's why the banks were making loans and not asking for down payments, proof of income, etc. Many of them were setting up the loans with balloon payments if a buyer said they couldn't make a payment right away. When payment time came, the homeowners weren't able to make the payment. The banks knew it was coming and were selling the mortgages off as fast as they could because FMae and FMac were backed by the government.

This would have happened regardless of the interest rate. That's why no bank should "sell" a variable interest loan or loan without a down payment and proof of ability to pay.

-The market is correcting.

Ah, God IS self-correcting, eh?

Magic would be believing in some kind of immediate effect from this Bill.

Abysmal ignorance would be believing that doing nothing would have been wise after the problem had evolved into a stranglehold on credit.

C-SPAN is now showing a Congessional Committee grilling the top CEO of Lehman Brothers.

The guy is sweating bullets.

Interesting to watch as he tries to spin his way out of answering.

"Exactly, and every day the value drops more and increases the size of the problem for those companies. If Greenspan hadn't used interest rates to prop up the Bush economy there would be no big deal about the foreclosures because the properties would still be worth as much as they were purchased for.

#50 | Posted by danni at 2008-10-06 01:30 PM | Reply | Flag: BEE-ESS

In 1977, in response to complaints that banks were "redlining" inner-city neighborhoods, President Carter signed into law the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA), which declared that banks have "an affirmative obligation" to meet the credit needs of the communities in which they are chartered and that federal regulators should take their performances into account when considering merger requests. But efforts to enforce the law were sporadic until a 1992 study by the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston purporting to prove racial bias in mortgage lending. Yet the study had mishandled statistics on minority default rates. When the errors were accounted for, the same study showed no evidence that nonwhite mortgage applicants were being discriminated against.

just stop yourself, danni.

-law required banks to meet a "quota" of minority lending.

Did the law also require using physicists to come up with complicated financial products based on these mortgages and "insured" by nothing?

No, I think it was 8 years of Repube deregulation that did that.

"CEO of Lehman Brothers.'

His Florida mansion and art collection should be auctioned off!!!

Phoenix, www.drudge.com -- #53 | Posted by Corky

I can't watch the video right now. But remember, I have been apoplectic about the bailout since it was proposed.

What are you up to? Last week anyone who didn't support the bailout was a moron. This week you've seen the light...??

Some dude with 3 names just annouced that no fix would work unless all the world economies acted as one to correct them, saying the problem would bounce from one market to the other.

Welcome to the New World Order, act 2. This is a 3 act play. The third act will be to name the governance body.

Lip, what was the first act, 9/11 or was it 1913, the creation of the Federal Reserve/IRS system?

the crisis peaking on rosh hoshanna. 9/29/08.

Phoenix

Nope. Like Obama and most other responsible Dems, I thought this whole thing was Wall Street's fault, but that it had evolved too far from the original problem to be ignored.

I like Russ Feingold and Dennis the K on economics, and they both voted against the Bill.

But I am not convinced that either would have voted that way had their's been the deciding vote.

Corky, the republican tried multiple times to enforce more regulation on Fmae and Fmac.

If you haven't seen it yet, check out the infamous youtube video that will show you how the Dems condemned further regulation and oversight of Fmae and Fmac.

Bush tried in 2003 and McCain's name was on a bill in 2005 to place more oversight. It has been argued that the Republicans had a majority and could have passed it. True, but a simple majority does not pass a bill especially if you cannot get all of that majority to support it (as evidenced by the House's action last Monday.

the crisis peaking on rosh hoshanna. 9/29/08. --#63 | Posted by nanc

What's your point? That banking crises are a traditional way for Jews to celebrate the new year? Or that markets crash when Jews take a day off work?

"just stop yourself, danni."

NANC I'd love to have a discussion with you but I doubt you are intellectually capable. YOur posting debunked talking points just reinforces my impression of you.

CEO of Lehman Brothers.'

His Florida mansion and art collection should be auctioned off!!!

The guy who made 280 Million dollars since 2008 and still held 20,000,000 share of LB bfore it went tits up?

Oh yeah, and that just fer starters.

Spud hearing all kinds of talk about how Euro govs are now guaranteeing the savings accounts in various banks over there in order to prevent panicky withdrawals but nobody seems to be talking caps like the 100,000 dollar one we're seeing here that some folks want to see pushed to 250,000.

Are there caps there or is it, as advertised, in toto?

Won't that lead to mass movements of monies electronically into these banks if that's the case?

Why is England holding out on that strategy to date?

Spud aint got no answers here but does got a shitload of questions.

Be Well.

I am no financial brain, admittedly.

but the problem seems to me to be when the stock market went from investing in something real to investing in something unreal.

no, phoenix - it's simply easier for me to see EVERYTHING from a biblical perspective. we've been duly warned.

Massachusetts is now asking the Feds for money. I say give it to them, in exchange, they have to accept wind farms, even if they block the nice view.

Don't you guys understand?
Bushie had nothing to do with it!
It was that damned Liberal(what's his name?)-Oh! George Washington!

Sincerely-Nanc & Co.

nanc

did any government regulation FORCE any lending institution to enter into any mortgage?

no, phoenix - it's simply easier for me to see EVERYTHING from a biblical perspective. we've been duly warned.

#70 | Posted by nanc

Now it's God's fault???

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!

9733.36

no but god predicted it but you have the free will to make it do otherwise, just remember that

9724.52

frank - i don't blame this on God.

9733.42

yeah that's god take credit for the good, no responsiblity for the bad

kind of like a wall st ceo or a republican.

9698.56

Many CEOs think they are god.

Truth, read an exercpt from this article:

Under Clinton, bank regulators have breathed the first real life into enforcement of the Community Reinvestment Act, a 20-year-old statute meant to combat "redlining" by requiring banks to serve their low-income communities.

The administration also has sent a clear message by stiffening enforcement of the fair housing and fair lending laws. The bottom line: Between 1993 and 1997, home loans grew by 72% to blacks and by 45% to Latinos, far faster than the total growth rate.

Lenders also have opened the door wider to minorities because of new initiatives at Fannie Mae and Freddie Macthe giant federally chartered corporations that play critical, if obscure, roles in the home finance system.

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac buy mortgages from lenders and bundle them into securities; that provides lenders the funds to lend more.



In 1992, Congress mandated that Fannie and Freddie increase their purchases of mortgages for low-income and medium-income borrowers. Operating under that requirement, Fannie Mae, in particular, has been aggressive and creative in stimulating minority gains. It has aimed extensive advertising campaigns at minorities that explain how to buy a home and opened three dozen local offices to encourage lenders to serve these markets.

Most importantly, Fannie Mae has agreed to buy more loans with very low down paymentsor with mortgage payments that represent an unusually high percentage of a buyer's income. That's made banks willing to lend to lower-income families they once might have rejected.

accboards.com

Like Obama and most other responsible Dems, I thought this whole thing was Wall Street's fault, but that it had evolved too far from the original problem to be ignored. -- Corky

Well, I agree with everything you wrote there except the Obama spin. As angry as I was, I had accepted the bailout was worth a shot.

Then I saw the bill. It does NOTHING to fix the underlying problems. It just enables the same gamblers to go back to business as usual.

Believing that terrorism is a serious problem that needed to be addressed made the Iraq invasion LESS sensible, not more sensible.

But heck, sooner or later the Bush administration's losing streak has to end, right? So let's give them $700B with no strings attached...

th - we are responsible for our own actions.

GLOBALIZATION, HERE WE COME!

9638.66

9643.76


there is no doubt that the pressure was coming from the feds to reduce the requirements but money was to be made.

everyone was at fault

no we are screwed.

9597.08

down 700 today and dropping

"9638.66"

Aw that's nothing. That's just a great buying opportunity.

Sincerely,
Vernon and RightisRight

th - calm yourself. it's only money. probably not worth the paper it's written on.

well, no, not probably - definitely not worth the paper it's written on.

well it eventuallywill be a buying opportunity

the key is timing, will it bottom at 9,000 8,000, 6,000

the bottom will be around 3,000 to 4,000 in my opinion

look at this

moneycentral.msn.com

the slope changes around 87 and really goes up in 94.

eliminate that slope, ie bubble and you extrapolate a value of around 4,000


simpleton mathematics or statistics I am sure

There is plenty of panic selling and very few buyers, interesting times. Commodities are also down, including gas and oil. My bags full of penny rolls will be worth something again.

yeah I should remain calm, just watching my life savings, my retirement account, everything I have worked hard for years disappear nothing to worry about.

My bags full of penny rolls will be worth something again.


yeah you can hit somebody over the head with em and steal their shoes

see, th - you can find some humor in this debacle and i'm giving you an ff for your #93!

Hahahahahaha. What a perfect day for the Obama campaign to raise the Keating 5 issue.

Most folks are choosing to ignore the fact that without the housing bubble created by Greenspan and Bush we would not now have a mortgage crisis

----

The air from the dot-com bubble was just transferred to the housing bubble. You could argue that without the dot-com bubble there would have been no housing bubble...at least not as big as it was.

"9638.66"

Pass an inflationary bailout and everyone can be a billionaire...just like Zimbabwe!

-Null and Corky


"9638.66"


Pass an inflationary bailout and everyone can be a billionaire...just like Zimbabwe!


-Null and Corky


Does that mean Obama will be in power for 28 years or more?!?!

In Zimbabwe they had to remove what 11 zeros from their currency?!

"That's made banks willing to lend to lower-income families they once might have rejected."

Doesn't matter who they loaned money to, how much they earned, what their credit history was....those loans were still secured by the property that was mortgaged. When the value of the property fell it left both home buyers and the banks that owned the mortgages without the proper equity value to support that mortgage whether still being paid or defaulting.
The property values dropping is what is converting this from an unfortunate situation for possibly irresponsible buyers to a disaster for the entire economy.
The Bush apologists, like Anamerican, are trying to pick apart details of small parts of the problem and then dishonestly pretend that is the real basic issue of this crisis. Perhaps some that post these talking points don't know better but I think many are just dishonest McBush supporters.

"That's made banks willing to lend to lower-income families they once might have rejected."

Doesn't matter who they loaned money to, how much they earned, what their credit history was....those loans were still secured by the property that was mortgaged. When the value of the property fell it left both home buyers and the banks that owned the mortgages without the proper equity value to support that mortgage whether still being paid or defaulting.
The property values dropping is what is converting this from an unfortunate situation for possibly irresponsible buyers to a disaster for the entire economy.
The Bush apologists, like Anamerican, are trying to pick apart details of small parts of the problem and then dishonestly pretend that is the real basic issue of this crisis. Perhaps some that post these talking points don't know better but I think many are just dishonest McBush supporters.

we can call him baby doc obama, potus for life.

The Bailout only does one thing, mitigate civil lawsuits for the perpetrators of the crime of fraud. This includes Paulson, who is in charge of the bailout. Talk about a fox in the henhouse, the level of criminal activity is unprecedented, and so typical for BushCo.

It should be intuitively obvious to the most casual observor that no problem other than this has been addressed. Nothing else has been accomplished, as usual.

probably the worst thing about a slowdown is the annoying phone calls from salesmen looking for work from me

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money.cnn.com

danni - stop yourself. honestly, there's enough blame to go around - ten times over. we need a do over in wa. everybody from the janitors on up need to be let go and tried for specific crimes.

i'm so glad i find no peace in money.

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do you find peace in eating? having a roof over your head? the lights on? education for you kids?

I think the presidents Working Group on Financial Markets has been artificially holding up the stock market by injecting billions and billions into it.

(We are talking about billions and billions.. the last two injection I know about is $180 Billion on Sep 18th 2008 and $630 Billion on Sep 29th 2008)

Who are these people in this group? Lets name names here.

* Henry Paulson - Sec Treasury
* Ben Bernanke - FED Chairman
* Christopher Cox - SEC Chairman
* Walter Lukken - CFTC Chairman

Perhaps what is happening now is that this group (now that they have their bailout bill passed and their new found powers) is no longer holding up the market.

What happens if they stop injecting money into the market? Stocks will tank and the government now has the ability to seize failing corporations and give them to ... you got it the companies will be owned buy FEDERAL RESERVE MEMBER BANKS like JP Morgan. They can then pass the bad debt on to you and the good assesses on to themselves.

.. and Congress let them do it.. Hell they even encouraged it.. We need to wake up here and get with the program.. America is being sold right before our eyes and the people appear to be powerless to stop it. Some smart people out there need to figure out how the people can force the government to act upon itself peacefully, we need to bring these people in front of a grand jury.


i have all those things, th. and you forget - if all else fails, we are a family that knows how to survive it all.

p.s. - th - those things are a result of the peace i have - if they all disappeared, i would still have the peace.

"danni - stop yourself. honestly, there's enough blame to go around - ten times over."

Oh good, the old "both parties are just as bad as each other" talking point. Then don't bother to vote at all then Nanc, Me...I'll be voting Democratic. Fact is, there is a huge difference between the parties, the Dems aren't perfect but they haven't been openly conducting a class war for thirty years.

I guess I mistated, peace is fine, but I would prefer to be peaceful with a house over my head, food in my pantry, my kids through college all paid for with my savings, which are now being wiped out.

I'll be voting Democratic. Fact is, there is a huge difference between the parties, the Dems aren't perfect but they haven't been openly conducting a class war for thirty years.

Mission Accomplished.

careful there, danni...

i am sorry, th, really - our family doesn't have as much to lose monetarily as yours, i'm sure, but we did see this coming for a very long time. our faith has sustained us in trying times and we've had quite a few. i've had a difficult time even cashing a check since last friday and the money's there, but the computers in the stores are messed up! and no, we're not the type to take handouts of ANY kind.

Vote for whatever false choice you want, Obama and McCain are both in on it.. vote either way, jack will change.. in the meantime while your rallying people to vote for Obama, I'll be stocking fuel, food, and ammo.

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I am diversified and everything is taking a hit, harshly.

Fortunately I have enough AR to make things comfortable, but the spending will be cut back.

the real pain is not in the current but in the retirement savings, I was hoping to have a few years without work.

Bush 1 = War, Recession and a Bailout

Bush 2 = Huge War, Recession and a Massive Bailout


Looks like Bush can finally look Daddy in the eye and say 'I beat ya'.

"and no, we're not the type to take handouts of ANY kind."

Hope that things never get bad enough that you are forced to. We are quite self-sustaining in my family as well. However, I don't look down on those who need assistance to feed children these days. I honestly don't know how many young families are making it. I guess really many aren't.

Truth, want some advice? Silver is at $11 an ounce right now.. it has not yet jumped up. If I had anything left, I would get some bars. Get the hard metal no "inventing" in silver stocks, it could go as high as $20 an ounce here.

Yeah, I'm reposting from the Nooner. Bounce me and I come back as "101" ...

The daily alarm from my mainstream daily corporate blat:

"Despair about a weakening global economy is sweeping across Wall Street, propelling the Dow Jones industrials down more than 700 points. Investors around the world have been selling off stocks as they come to realize that financial systems in the United States and other countries need more than government bailouts to fix them."

Might it be time to revive - as mere conversation fodder, mind you - those archaic economic philosophies that leave our rigid righties sputtering with rage? I know it will draw more viciousness about my advanced years ... but is it possible that hallowed GOP-style free market capitalism doesn't cut it? herm

"Looks like Bush can finally look Daddy in the eye and say 'I beat ya'."

And John McCain has Daddy issues too. People should consider that when they vote. The WH is not the place to work out Oedipal complexes.

Also Truth, Your stocks could go to zero, the dollar could be worth dirt, but gold and silver will always hold a decent value.. you may not "win" in commodes, but you wont loose either.

The root of all roots is libs trying to turn poor people into normal middle class people by giving them below prime mortgages. This idea goes back to the sixties when they talked about low income housing, affordable housing, community re-investment, minority housing goals, etc, and manifested inself in pieces of legislation that forced banks to loan money to people who were not qualified. SURPRISE! SURPRISE! They couldn't pay and their homes were forclosed on.

ThOSE SAME PEOPLE fucked up their own neighborhoods and now want to bring our neighborhoods down to their level. They fucked up their schools too. They will never be like normal middle class people because they are stupid. WE NEED A ROOT CANAL!!!

"They couldn't pay and their homes were forclosed on."

So what!, The bank should be able to reposess the property and sell it for all or nearly all of the amount of the mortgage....but uh-oh....the property has significantly fallen in value and is now not worth anywhere near the mortgage amount.
So the defaulted mortgage put the irresponsible buyer on the street but that didn't destroy the value of the home.
No, that was done by the slight of hand of Greenspan raising interest rates after allowing the bubble to build for several years with extremely low interest rates.
Hey, Bush got reelected in 2004, the economy looked fine to those who don't question how it can be when it is bleeding jobs and offers stagnant wages.
If you want to continue the ignorant and ridiculous attempt to deflect the blame away from the architects of this disaster fine but the folks who engineered it are pinching themselves, they really can't believe people are really dumb enough to buy it.

danni - i don't look down my nose at people less fortunate than we. we are quite charitable and would help anybody in need - within our means, of course. there are a multitude of programs to feed hungry children - angelfoodministries.com for one - affordable food for anybody. food stamps. food closets. don't turn the needs of others around on me - i'm not the martyr type.

Step out of the room for a moment and suddenly you're overwhelmed.

First -