Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs

In Israel's ultra Orthodox community, bearded, black-robed "modesty patrols" have attacked a Jerusalem woman for allegedly consorting with men and torched a store that sells video players, fearing devout Jews would use them to download porn. "These breaches of purity and modesty endanger our community," said 38-year-old Elchanan Blau. "If it takes fire to get them to stop, then so be it."

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At the point in time when Israeli democracy gives way to religious fundamentalism, I will start questioning what level of financial support our government should be affording this foreign country.

Heard about the American lady who was kicked and punched because she refused to ride at the back of a bus? In Israel?

You think such things are new?

www.feministing.com

Miriam Shear says she was traveling to pray at the Western Wall in Jerusalem's Old City early on November 24 when a group of ultra-Orthodox (Haredi) men attacked her for refusing to move to the back of the Egged No. 2 bus. She is now in touch with several legal advocacy and women's organizations, and at the same time, waiting for the police to apprehend her attackers.

In her first interview since the incident, Shear says that on the bus three weeks ago, she was slapped, kicked, punched and pushed by a group of men who demanded that she sit in the back of the bus with the other women. The bus driver, in response to a media inquiry, denied that violence was used against her, but Shear's account has been substantiated by an unrelated eyewitness on the bus who confirmed that she sustained an unprovoked 'severe beating.'

So are we questioning now "what level of financial support our government should be affording this foreign country"?

The French foreign minister was overheard referring to Israel as "that shitty little country".

I wonder what lies the American people are told every day for them support this shitty little country?


tosser we should cut off funding to those backstabbing traitors asap

backstabbing traitors


Israel is not America. So you can't call them "traitors".

But they are backstabbers and no better than the Saudis or the Iranians. OK.. maybe better in the sense they let their women drive cars.

But making them sit at the back of a bus. And punching them if they don't?

I know-it makes it seem almost like they're South of the Mason-Dixon line....I wonder-do they treat blacks as badly as they did down south?

I wonder-do they treat blacks as badly as they did down south?


You know of Ethiopian Jews, Israel took in many years ago? Black folk.. but Jewish.

One of them .. a military fellow... was donating blood. When he was done, the doc (she thought nobody was looking) tossed the bag of blood into the trash.

But she was not only seen, it was recorded and played on Israeli TV.

Huge stink was raised by some over this.

This is how they treat blacks. Even their blood is to be thrown into the trash.

failedmessiah.typepad.com

and

www.africaresource.com


This is the second time MDA has been caught dumping Ethiopian blood. There were protests then and there are again now.

MDA doesn't want to take Ethiopian blood? Fine. Don't take it. But do not take the blood under false pretenses and then discard it like trash. (Discarding blood in this fashion is a clear violation of halakha, as well.)


Under no pretense should the hospital have had to thrown away the blood donation of Ethiopians. there are many prescreening one has to go through in order to donate. The Ethiopians did those prescreening, were obviously approved and told they could donate and so they did because they are a kind and considerate people. They weren't disease ridden immigrants with ill will, they have been in Israel for decades. i have lived half my life Ethiopia and now I'm a US citizen, and i have donated blood plenty of times to the Red Cross. If my Ethiopian blood is good enough in America then why wouldn't it be so for Israel??


This is Israel's version of Jim Crow, and no matter what lame excuses anyone offers, it's a blatant proof of the rampant racism that exists in European dominated Israel.

Blasphemer!!!!

Israel's Ultra Orthodox community would have a field day here. Could we import them to clean up this joint (USA).

FWTHOM-
Do you know of some immoral women who should be beaten by religious thugs?

Tosser-
What's your fuckin' deal?

Jews have always aspired to militancy... they were pissed at Jesus cause he wasn't. The loved David because he was. They are always looking for someone to kick ass in their behalf. I don't understand why the US doesn't let them just duke it out.


I wonder what lies the American people are told every day for them support this shitty little country?

If I were allowed to have my way, we'd send nothing to israel. They're the buddies with the bully on the block. They pick the fight, egg it on and hide while the bully does the dirty work.

As the story goes, one day the bully meets his match and his buddies aren't there to back him up because they've run, scared shitless.


I know-it makes it seem almost like they're South of the Mason-Dixon line....I wonder-do they treat blacks as badly as they did down south?

I knew it wouldn't take long for this type of comment to surface.

Thanks Frank.

You've reminded me that I need to go to the weekly meeting where we discuss methods for "Keeping the black man down" and "Hitting her so bruises don't show".

Asshole.

Israel's Ultra Orthodox community would have a field day here. Could we import them to clean up this joint (USA).

#13 | Posted by fwthom

Wouldn't it be so much easier for you to go there?
Love it or leave it! Isn't that the conservative way?

Jews, Christians, and Muslims -- all have their assholes.

Oh no, this religious attitude is not of God. It is legalism. It repels people. Ti brings bondage. It is the spirit of religion which keeps people self righteous and blinds them to think the flesh can please God. This kind of attitude was what Jesus tried to break during His ministry on earth --- and still is by the power of the Spirit.

Tosser-
What's your fuckin' deal?


You are Jewish I believe?

I am Muslim, but I don't give a shit about Saudi Arabia.

Why does being Jewish.. and American... mean one should give a shit about Israel???

Around 25% of Israelis are actually Arab-Jews. THEY belong to that land and have been there for thousands of years.

Yet, Israel is run by European Jewish people. Arab-Jews... who never had problem with the Muslims they lived with for a thousand years.... are not in control. They never are.

And as I pointed out above, look how they treat their black people.

Israel may pretend to be this or that, but fact is, they are a bunch of Euro-racists.

ALL of the problems of the region started when the Europeans took over.

ALL the religious nuts who patrol the streets of Israel to beat up women... they are also all European decent actually. You won't see an Arab-Jewish person doing that shit.

"At the point in time when Israeli democracy gives way to religious fundamentalism, I will start questioning what level of financial support our government should be affording this foreign country."

It isn't the job of our government to tax Americans and give the proceeds to foreigners regardless of what form of government they have. And Israel has always been a quasi-democracy as non-Jews are 2nd class citizens. Any pro-Israel feelings I have end where they start to interfere with the best interests of Americans. Unfortunately, that makes me a minority among Americans.

"Oh no, this religious attitude is not of God. It is legalism. It repels people. Ti brings bondage. It is the spirit of religion which keeps people self righteous and blinds them to think the flesh can please God."

Good lord, I'm actually agreeing with you.

Is it true that ultra-orthodox Jews are exempt from compulsory military duty in Israel?

Religious theocracy or what!

"Is it true that ultra-orthodox Jews are exempt from compulsory military duty in Israel?"

Yes. But that doesn't stop them from being the biggest hawks in the country. Its basically a whole a whole sub-culture of Dich Cheneys.

But that doesn't stop them from being the biggest hawks in the country.


Exactly.

And they are all armed.

"Yet, Israel is run by European Jewish people. Arab-Jews... who never had problem with the Muslims they lived with for a thousand years.... are not in control. They never are."

Oh Tosser, spreading lies that Muslims & Jews got along before Israel?

Lets fact check shall we ?

(The actual truth is that Jews were dhimmis under Muslims who often murdered them at will or for trumped up excuses like ritual murders AND long before you Muslims could use the convenient excuse of "Zionism")

from Wiki

"Pogroms spread through the Middle East and North Africa: Aleppo (1850, 1875), Damascus (1840, 1848, 1890), Beirut (1862, 1874), Dayr al-Qamar (1847), Jerusalem (1847), Cairo (1844, 1890, 1901-02), Mansura (1877), Alexandria (1870, 1882, 1901-07), Port Said (1903, 1908), Damanhur (1871, 1873, 1877, 1891), Istanbul (1870, 1874), Buyukdere (1864), Kuzguncuk (1866), Eyub (1868), Edirne (1872), Izmir (1872, 1874) - these are just key cases."

en.wikipedia.org

My my ... all long before Israel existed and all directed at Arabic Jews ... so much for your silly crap.
Muslims have been killing Jews since Muhammed and you know it so give it a rest friend.

Oh Tosser, spreading lies that Muslims & Jews got along before Israel?


They got along well under the Ottoman Empire.

The Ottomans let Jews buy all their lands there.

Big mistake.


Muslims have been killing Jews since Muhammed and you know it so give it a rest friend.


Nope. We killed only a handful. Your Christian buddies killed all the rest.

Btw, where did you pop up from. Hi. Long time. no see?

However, we are not really concerned with history.

We here in this thread, are concerned with why Israelis are beating up people in the streets and how bad they treat blacks. That sorta thing.

So, GZlives, what is your take on these ultras imposing strict religious dogma, violently, on those who seem not to comply in what is purported to be the only democracy in the Middle East?

Seems all very Sharia-like to me.

Fundamentalism is fundamentalism whether its Christianity, Judaism or Islam. It's all idiotic and in some instances downright dangerous.
But if we're really intellectually honest, it would be very difficult to make the argument that a small minority of idiotic fundamentalist Jews compares in any way to what we see in the Islamic world.

In Israel these people are BREAKING THE LAW .. and are at least supposed to be arrested or as in the case of the Canadian woman who was attacked on a bus, they are hauled into court.

In the Islamic countries, it's hardly against any law.

Just read Ayaan Hirsi Ali's book "Infidel" if you need some proof of this.

But more importantly why was this article even posted here?

MODER8 's point was :

"As time passes, Israel increasingly resembles its religious extremist neighbors."

"The only difference being that Israel is Jewish, and the neighbors are all fundamentalist Islamic societies."

"At what point does the behavior within Israeli society begin to affect the level of support the U.S. provides?"


But all the above are just blatant lies.

As time passes, Israel increasingly resembles its religious extremist neighbors?

Really?

Had you only read the article instead of using it to further your racism MODERN8 you would have seen this:

"The violence has already deepened the antagonism between the 600,000 haredim, or God-fearing, and the secular majority, which resents having religious rules dictated to them."

600,000 ?
And to you this resembles Egypt or Syria or Hezbollah in Lebanon where this sentiment represents not a small minority of 600,000 but the law of these lands.

You are either really stupid or have an agenda.
The answer to that is here:

"The only difference being that Israel is Jewish, and the neighbors are all fundamentalist Islamic societies."

So to you its all about Israel being Jewish?
Jews have some sort of privilege? What exactly do you mean MODERN8?

Why not explain exactly what you mean or do you want to keep the illusion that you aren't an anti semite?

"We here in this thread, are concerned with why Israelis are beating up people in the streets and how bad they treat blacks. That sorta thing."


Hi Tosser ...

Problem is your making sweeping generalizations aren't you?

Israelis are NOT beating people up and they aren't this or that way towards black Israelis - some Israelis are.

Its about some people Tosser and not an entire society.

Israel has always been a reliable ally of the United States in a very troubled part of the World. Further, traditionally Israel has striven to be a liberal democracy within the security confines of the neighborhood where it must survive. There traditionally has been a commonality between Israeli values and American values. These are powerful reasons for America to support Israel.
But at the point in time where Israel were to begin abandoning those values, and slip into authoritarian fundamentalism, then it is reasonable (and inevitable) that Americans scrutinize the relationship ever more closely.
The real point being, Israel as a society must clamp down on the intolerant fundamendalist elements in it's midsts or risk losing some American support.

Ah Tosser, the man who speaks from a position of moral superiority of his culture which is a light for the world in permitting freedom of thought and speech, and in treatment of women, and in respect for the rights of others, no suicide bombings, no fatwahs, no theocratic domination of any areas of life.

The Israelis have restricted the actions of their religious nuts, while the intolerant religious nuts are the dominant force in the Islamic world.

But anyway, Tosser, the illumination you provide by being indifferent to the restrictions imposed in your own society, and damning others for what is endemic in your milieu, is that we do not see ourselves as others see us. It's a magic mirror on the wall with a blue tint that erases all of the defects when you view yourself. But never mind, Tosser, throw those stones at others for religious persecution as viewed from the perspective of an Islamic viewing a non-Islamic society.

But anyway, Tosser, the illumination you provide


I certainly am not gonna provide YOU with any light on your way to the toilet.

Go get your own flashlight.

"Israel has always been a reliable ally of the United States in a very troubled part of the World."

Name one time Israelis have ever fought alongside Americans or on their own in order to support American interests. Hasn't happened. Ever.

We are fighting two wars. But we "can't" use them to help. I guess they also "can't" relieve US forces in other parts of the world in order to free up resources for our war effort. It isn't a matter of "can't". It is a matter of won't. You will never see Israel put any resources on the line for anyone other than Israel. That is perfectly understandable given their siuation but to pretend that they are this great ally is just bullshit. They've attacked us one more time than they've ever attacked anyone else on our behalf.

I support Israels right to exist but I also support the American taxpayer's right not to subsidize foreigners especially when the excuse for it is this "crucial ally" myth that doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

"So to you its all about Israel being Jewish?
Jews have some sort of privilege?"

The Israeli government uses public funds to encourage and support Jews who are looking to emigrate. It doesn't do this for other groups. Because Israel is a Jewish state and they talk about their need to keep a Jewish identity and a Jewish majority.

Why would you pretend not to know this?

Clearly you don't know or understand much history Sully ..

America NEVER supported Israel until the late 1960's.
In all the wars Israel fought until that period, America stayed neutral. In 1948, despite Israel being facing 100 to 1 - the entire Arab world and every Arab army attacking, America STAYED OUT.
Israel had to buy weapons from the Czechs, the French but not America.

Know why Sully?
Because the Soviets were pouring money and arms into Eyria and Egypt. Suddenly, America took an interest in Israel and only because we wanted to stop the Soviets. Its' called ELF INTEREST.

US weapons were field tested and used by Israelis in subsequent wars. Israel provided America with ports for its fleet in the region. Israel provided intel for America in regard to the Soviet client States.

And about your claim that Israel never fought along side of America - its certainly not because they didn't want to or try to.

Fast forward to first Iraq war. Bush Sr. specifically wanted the Israelis to stay away so he could organize an Arab front in the coalition.
Saddam understanding this fired SCUDs into Israel trying to drag them into the war which would have pushed the Arab nations out. The Israelis scrambled their jets ready to fly to Baghdad, my cousin among them but Bush ordered them to stand down. Got that?
Bush ORDERED THEM TO STAND DOWN ...

and the IAF remained on the tarmac at the request of the US President.

Funny about the anti Israel Left - they will accuse the Israelis of flying US jets in Iraq to hide the fact that they are Israelis, but at the same time accuse the Israelis of never fighting and using AIPAC to force Americans to fight for Israel. BOTH are lies as usual.

GZ - I never said the US aided Israel in its early wars. In fact, I have disputed the talking point that the US "created" Israel many times. I do know my history. And you know your strawmen.

I've never said we invaded Iraq because Israel wanted it - that's just assinine. And I don't consider myself part of the "the left". I don't consider my position "anti-Israel" either. I simply don't put Israel ahead of my own country. Americans should not be taxed to support Israel. If we want to be allies: Great!. But to say that Israel is crucial to American interests simply isn't true.

Here is my position: Being allies does not entitled Israelis to billions of dollars taken from the pockets of Americans. If you care to argue with that, fire away. Otherwise, save your silly strawmen.

"The Israeli government uses public funds to encourage and support Jews who are looking to emigrate. It doesn't do this for other groups. Because Israel is a Jewish state and they talk about their need to keep a Jewish identity and a Jewish majority." ?

So what?

Why would I pretend not to know Israel uses public funds to help Jews return home? Its a Jewish State so what's surprising about helping more Jews come home?

Israel's raison d'etre is a re establishment of the Jewish State and the return of the Jewish people to their historical home where they were forced out by invaders centuries ago.

Sully, can you wrap your mind around the notion that many Jews are agnostic and don't observe Judaism at all. Many are more or less just "cultural" Jews but nevertheless are still Jews?




Hmmmm I could swear you posted this:

"We are fighting two wars. But we "can't" use them to help. I guess they also "can't" relieve US forces in other parts of the world in order to free up resources for our war effort. It isn't a matter of "can't". It is a matter of won't."

I think its clear what you said, and clear that its just not accurate ...

"But to say that Israel is crucial to American interests simply isn't true."

Israel is crucial to Christian fundamentalist America. Just ask Sara.

Example: Christian fundamentalist group in Colorado Springs is planning to build a large building to house a scaled down replica of the Wailing Wall made from stones excavated and shipped from Israel, all at the cost of $2.5 million, for starters. Seems to me that A so-called christian organization could adhere to Christ's teachings and find a much better use for $2.5 million, such as, oh, I I don't know, feed the poor perhaps? Help those in need? Set up a shelter for the homeless?

Crucial to American interests?

Do you think as the Russian bear awakes and gets closer to regimes like for example the regime in Iran, we could just as easily depend on Egypt or Jordan to safeguard US interests ain this region?

Notice how quickly Hezbollah recently took over Lebanon's government?

I've already stated my opinion about all fundamentalism.

"Do you think as the Russian bear awakes and gets closer to regimes like for example the regime in Iran, we could just as easily depend on Egypt or Jordan to safeguard US interests ain this region?"

First of all, that you have to dig up 50's era red scare paranoia to make your point doesn't speak well for your arguement but let's play along....

WTF would Israel do against Russia? Fight a conventionial war against Russians to protect American interests in the region? No way. And if they did, they would lose.

Nuke them? We could do that just as easily.


And I ask again: What does Israel being an ally have to do with Americans being taxed for the benefit of Israelis? If we have to pay them, they aren't allies. They are mercenaries.

WTF would Israel do against Russia?


Piss them (Russia) off by giving drones to Georgia along with training and weapons.

Look how well THAT went down. LOL

Fundamentalism is fundamentalism whether its Christianity, Judaism or Islam. It's all idiotic and in some instances downright dangerous.

~GZ

Agreed.

Spud would go further and point out that fundMENTALists within organised religion are the greatest barrier to moral evolution that exists on the planet today.

One cannot stop people from believing in the stupidest shit imaginable. This story being a case in point. That sed, one must work to discredit their actions and to apply the full force of law upon such individuals and to hell with letting them use "religious belief" as an excuse fer their inexcusable actions.

In Iraq they have fundy fucksticks who go around and kill people fer the crime of wearing short pants in 120 degree weather.

American support of Israel is in many ways vital to American intersts in that region but with that sed and understood it must also become apparent that unconditional support is as bad as no support at all.

Spud sed it before and Spud'll say it agin...

FUCK tha Religious Police!!!

/Coming straight from the underground.

Be Well.

Some interesting postage from Tosser on this thread although as has been pointed out above he's a li'l too quick to point out the mote in his neighbour's eye while igmnoring the beam in his own.

The "Get to the back of the bus" story has been getting small amounts of play up here is Canader, eh?

Be Well.

Two of the cooler interviews in Religulous were with the priest outside the Vatican and the one from the Vatican observatory; Especially the joke about getting to outer space before the Mormons do.

Coincidentally, the group least tolerant of Maher were the Mormons.

he's a li'l too quick to point out the mote in his neighbour's eye while igmnoring the beam in his own.


1.Israel isn't my neighbor.

2.This thread is in no way about Pakistan.

3.I have always said, "we are shit, but you are shit too". Difference is, people like Israel or US pretend they are not.

The Muslim gay activists were a hoot, both of them.

Sully, first I was responding to an argument that Israel isn't important perhaps crucial to American interests in the region.

My response is perhaps we ought to depend on our other "allies" in the region like Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia or I would have added Lebanon however its now a wholly owned subsidiary of Iran.

No Sully, I wasn't suggesting Israel is going to fight Russia. As I pointed out above, there are other ways to provide support. How about on the ground intel with people who speak the language given America has few who speak Arabic.

And Tosser ...

From over here in the midst of a Presidential campaign, it appeared the the Bush administration might have made a deal with Putin to provide him with an excuse to move into Georgia (allowing his new President Medvedev to play to the Russian nationalists) thus making our political campaign's subject of debate "National Security" where McCain was the stronger of the two candidates.

And that effectively put McCain close if not ahead of Obama until the subject was changed to the failing economy putting Obama ahead ...

Just my speculation what that was all about.

1.Israel isn't my neighbor.

~Tosser

Not yer next door neighbour perhaps but they are down the block and the subject of much political posturing.

2.This thread is in no way about Pakistan.

Agreed. And Tiny Johnson's attempts to deflect from Israel to Pakistan was kinda lame but it is all just part and parcel of his frenetic blog-stylings.

3.I have always said, "we are shit, but you are shit too". Difference is, people like Israel or US pretend they are not.

We is all just po' miserable sinners. Each and every one of us. Each nation has it's share of folks who think their shit don't stink and it's good eggs too. All we're really arguing about is percentages and strategies to deal with assholes like the ones in this story and those shitheels on that bus and those whackjobs in Iraq etc etc ad nauseum.

Wot time is it in Pakistan right now? Is 10:46 am onna West coast of North America right now.

Be Well.

Just my speculation what that was all about.


That scenario makes some sense, only I don't think War-Chimp is that deep to think of something like that.

It looks like a serious miscalculation and puts Russia in a real position of being able to shut off Europe's oil and gas supply. They are now sitting within shooting distance of the pipeline.

What you said does however fit with War-Chimp trying to provoke Pakistan into shooting at American soldiers. (we had a 5 minute "war" too. LOL)

THAT would bring in McCain too.

they are down the block and the subject of much political posturing.


They are considerably further down the block than where I get me groceries. I don't go any further than that.

And you can scan Pakistani news sources on the web. We hardly ever mention Israel.

I sometimes read Israeli newspapers on the web. They hardly ever mention Pakistan (even though Pakistani nukes can reach Israel).

We are not after each other in any way.


Wot time is it in Pakistan right now?


22:55

"Hmmmm I could swear you posted this:

"We are fighting two wars. But we "can't" use them to help. I guess they also "can't" relieve US forces in other parts of the world in order to free up resources for our war effort. It isn't a matter of "can't". It is a matter of won't."

I think its clear what you said, and clear that its just not accurate ..."

I just saw this now. Pray tell: What is inaccurate about my statement? Where are there Israeli troops fighting American enemies or relieving US troops?

I don't want to hear about the Israelis sharing intelligence that they were going to gather anyway and that it is in their best interests to share. I don't want to hear about Israeli offers that were rebuffed. I want to hear about Israel living up to its "crucial ally" status by actually putting some boots on the ground to help in ANY American theater of operations from South Korea to Afghanistan at any point in its history.

You can't do it because it will never happen.

Sully Sully .. come on.
Israel would have happily sent its IAF to bomb the shit out of Iraq after they fired SCUD's into Israeli cities.

They were stopped by Bush

As for Israeli contributions to its American ally :

The United States benefited from the use of Israeli-made Have Nap air-launched missiles on its B52 bombers. The Navy, meanwhile, used Israeli Pioneer pilotless drones for reconnaissance in the Gulf.

Israel provided mine plows that were used to clear paths for allied forces through Iraqi minefields.

Mobile bridges flown directly from Israel to Saudi Arabia were employed by the U.S. Marine Corps.

Israeli recommendations, based upon system performance observations, led to several software changes that made the Patriot a more capable missile defense system.

Israel Aircraft Industries developed conformal fuel tanks that enhanced the range of F15 aircraft. These were used in the Gulf.

General Dynamics has implemented a variety of Israeli modifications to improve the worldwide F16 aircraft fleet, including structural enhancements, software changes, increased capability landing gear, radio improvements and avionic modifications.

An Israeli-produced targeting system was used to increase the Cobra helicopter's night-fighting capabilities.

Israel manufactured the canister for the highly successful Tomahawk missile.

Night-vision goggles used by U.S. forces were supplied by Israel.

A low-altitude warning system produced and developed in Israel was utilized on Blackhawk helicopters.

Other Israeli equipment provided to U.S. forces included flack vests, gas masks and sandbags.

Israel offered the United States the use of military and hospital facilities. U.S. ships utilized Haifa port shipyard maintenance and support on their way to the Gulf.

Israel destroyed Iraq's nuclear reactor in 1981. Consequently, U.S. troops did not face a nuclear-armed Iraq.

Is that enough for you?

Now excuse me while I go and work to elect Barack Obama and Joe Biden as I hope you are also doing.


**** Israel's Ultra Orthodox community would have a field day here. Could we import them to clean up this joint (USA)........ Posted by fwthom *****

.....it's enlightening to hear that you support the Taliban......

......all they want is the same thing........

"Is that enough for you?"

None of that stuff contradicts what I said. Yes, they've lent materials and logistical support. As we have for them. And they bombed Iraq's reactor because it was important to their own security. I've never claimed they aren't an ally. I've claimed they aren't this indispensible ally that they are made out to be and that they will never put one boot on the ground for our sake. And certainly, there is nothing they are doing for us that requires billions of dollars a year in payment. When they stop taking our money, I will be less critical of their contributions. Until then I will openly wonder what the fuck we pay them for.....

"Now excuse me while I go and work to elect Barack Obama and Joe Biden as I hope you are also doing."

Nah. I considered voting for Obama just to make a statement against the GOP, who have screwed us so bad it seems deliberate. But I was growing weary of his phoniness and was 90% sure I couldn't vote for him. Then he went right along with this ludicrous bailout and that clinched it. I will vote Nader or Libertarian for president.


Sully ... voting for Nader got us Bush and by voting for him again or the Libertarian you are VOTING FOR McCain. Is that really what you want?

come on ... I don't believe it.

First to get it straight, I think they ought to take all these people on Wall Street outside and shoot them.

Now that we got that straight.
Obama voted for the 700 billion dollar package, because it was a needed psychological wall to prevent an instant collapse follwed by a panic.

I agree that 700 billion when we're probably talking more like 50 - 60 trillion stolen these last few years can't possibly prevent what will probably happen no matter what.

Nevertheless, at least the fall will be slower and softer rather then a hard collapse followed by an immediate panic which could have caused all sorts of other things to occur.

"Sully ... voting for Nader got us Bush and by voting for him again or the Libertarian you are VOTING FOR McCain. Is that really what you want?

come on ... I don't believe it."

I don't believe that at all. If people who voted for Nader wanted wanted Gore or Kerry to be president they would have voted for Gore or Kerry. Everyone I know who voted for Nader back in 2000 had no preference between Bush and Gore.

I held my nose and voted for Kerry last time around and I immediately came to regret the decision.

I honestly believe that voting for someone who you don't want in office just because they are a favorite is a waste of a vote. My hope is that as more people start voting for alternative candidates, some of the sheep will see the numbers increasing and follow along.

Yeah and meanwhile while we're waiting for everyone else to start voting for third party candidates, we get four years of McCain and perhaps Sarah Palin?

Sully ....

"Yeah and meanwhile while we're waiting for everyone else to start voting for third party candidates, we get four years of McCain and perhaps Sarah Palin?"

I'm not going to vote for McCain. If he wins, it will be due to the people who voted for him.

I'm not waiting for anyone else to do anything. I am voting my conscious and doing what I think is right in the present without a worry as to what others are doing. If everyone else wants to vote for shit candidates from corrupt parties, there is nothing I can do about it. I can only hope that eventually there will be enough people voting independetly that the sheep will follow. But I won't regret it if it doesn't happen in my lifetime. I regretted voting for Kerry because he was lesser of two evils. Never again.

JERUSALEM - In Israel's ultra-Orthodox Jewish community, where the rule of law sometimes takes a back seat to the rule of God, zealots are on a campaign to stamp out behavior they consider unchaste. They hurl stones at women for such "sins" as wearing a red blouse, and attack stores selling devices that can access the Internet.



Good to see that Jews and Muslims can finally agree on something.....stoning their women when the men get aroused seeing an ankle.

"Good to see that Jews and Muslims can finally agree on something.....stoning their women when the men get aroused seeing an ankle."

the Jews ? As in ALL the Jews? Or a tiny minority of Jewish fundamentalists who may believe this ?
And what's more its AGAINST THE LAW in Israel

And that COMMONSENSE ... is not only different from the Muslim countries but about a 180 degrees different.
A polar opposite if you will.


The Jews who do this in Israel are arrested because its against the law, the Muslims are obeying their law.

And that in case you can't see it ... is a
BIG difference.

Yep, GZ comes on to spout out his contradiction convoluted lying propaganda in support of the goodness of his beloved country, all the while stuffing his head in the sand to the actual realities of what actually goes on.

Killing, beatings, rock thowin for modesty of women is the radicals in Israel according to GZ, but if it involves the other faith then it is the norm.

Typical bull out of GZ, living in his own world of israel fantasy.

What's typical MW is your same old know nothing ignorant post.

As usual you have nothing to contribute.
But clearly still in terrible need of attention

Moneywar - the DR 's very own Sarah Palin

I simply don't put Israel ahead of my own country. Americans should not be taxed to support Israel.
Sully

Agreed Sully.

Yes GZ,

Please tell us how there really isn't a modestry patrol in israel.

Tell us this is just make believe. Tell us that israel isn't really the racial hatred of all who are not with them, tell us they are all for a diverse equal opportunity of the religious divide.

israel is the LAAAAANNNNNNNDDDDDDD of goodness!

the Jews ? As in ALL the Jews? Or a tiny minority of Jewish fundamentalists who may believe this ?
And what's more its AGAINST THE LAW in Israel

And that COMMONSENSE ... is not only different from the Muslim countries but about a 180 degrees different.
A polar opposite if you will.


The Jews who do this in Israel are arrested because its against the law, the Muslims are obeying their law.

And that in case you can't see it ... is a
BIG difference.

#62 | Posted by GZlives at 2008-10-06 07:17 PM | Reply | Flag

Not all muslims stone their women either.

I've spent quite a bit of time in Dubai and women over there where tanktops and shorts out and about and nobody stones them.

GZ...

Islam is now the predominant religion on the planet (Vatican sez). We don't stone women for walking down the street. I have never seen nor heard of it personally and don't know anyone who has.

In Israel, they however get punched in the face if they refuse to go to the back of a bus. And yes, stones are tossed as well. I have seen it on TV (BBC).

Yes, most ultra-Jews do this or want to do this. Such news keeps trickling out.

And as I have shown, it is Israel Govt. policy to throw blood donation by blacks into the trash.

Israel is a shitty little country that lives on US money and doesn't have a real economy of it's own.

Hey, everyone... know where you can buy a made-in-Israel DVD player? Or a made-in-Israel toaster??? No?

Fake economy.

LOL

Try and defend your shitty little country WITHOUT trying to compare it to Muslim societies.

Are you capable of doing that in this thread? I don't think so, but do try. Otherwise you look kind of desperate.

I do believe living in Iran or Saudi would be worse... I certainly wouldn't live there... but I do not believe living in Israel is going to be too much better.

GZ

You're back! I was wondering what happened to you. Hadn't seen you around in so long.

You and Tosser play nice, now. LOL

And if that wasn't enough...

(hey, you are the one who keeps invoking other religions... I am only returning the favor)

Child Sex In The Holy City

You may have been shocked by Ted Pike's recent expose of permission-for-pedophilia in the Babylonian Talmud. He quotes passages directly from the Talmud that sanction sex with boys under the age of 9 or girls under the age of 3-1/2 (See,
www.truthtellers.org
Pedophilia: The Talmud's Dirty Secret). Apparently, rabbis liked to molest small children a few thousand years ago.

Worse, they still like and excuse it today.

The leftist Jewish blogosphere buzzed recently with an eyewitness account from Rabbi Nuchem Rosenberg of child molestation in gay bathhouses in Jerusalem. This report has been circulated on popular Jewish blogs, including jewschool ("Mishegaas," Nov. 12) and failedmessiah ("For Marvin Schick: Mikva Man-on-Boy Abuse," Nov. 10).

Jewish blog Chaptzem was first to post scans of Rosenberg's eyewitness reports (in Yiddish and Hebrew). He tells of seeing 7- and 8-year-old boys sexually abused in the sauna of a mikvah, a bathhouse where Orthodox Jews undergo ritual purification (chaptzem.blogspot.com).

Rabbi Rosenberg, who is a world-traveling mikvah expert, expressed horror and grief at the sight. He said when he went to the religious authorities in Jerusalem they refused to act, saying the bathhouse pedophiles give them money to subsidize mikvahs.

"If this place would be in America," wrote Rosenberg, "all the participants would be in jail, and even according to the laws of the Zionist government, such a place would be closed down. But here, in the holy city of Yerushalayim (Jerusalem), in beis zupnik, the mikvah remains open and everything is permissible."

www.rense.com

You're back! I was wondering what happened to you. Hadn't seen you around in so long.


Since I was posting anti-Israel stuff, the Yahoodi authorities in Israel activated Israel's first line of defense and... boik boik boik.... GZ comes running back.

LOL

It is nice to know he is still around though. And I take all the credit for bring him back.

Get this through your head.

Whatever is happening in racist/fundo Israel, has NOTHING whatsoever to do with any Muslims or how some might behave.

Solve your problems without taking lessons from others.... even though it is clear you do need plenty of lessons.

Tosser-
With all due respect, shut the fuck up. You have annoyed me to no end, and your reflexive hatred of Jews and Israel is palpable beyond the point of unavoidable vomit.

Tosser,

"made-in-Israel DVD player?"

Never heard of Zoran, almost 30% of the chip market for DVD players?

shut the fuck up.


I don't want to.

You are the ones who swear allegiance to that "shitty little country". You are the ones who everyone hates.

I think it would be better for you lot to keep a low profile. LOL


Never heard of Zoran,


Nope.

Isreal is no Japan.

Deal with it.

Next time, you try and defend your "shitty little country", make sure you don't badmouth Muslims in the process.

You people have enough shit of your own to deal with.

Shit which I can continue to dig up and show here and there.

So much for activating Isreal's first line of defense. LOL.

beyond the point of unavoidable vomit.


Sucking on a lemon is said to help.

Anymore Juden want to say something anti-Muslim???

I am waiting.

Us Pakistanis also work on the American model.

Challenge, Response.

You challenge me, I will respond.

Unless I got something better to do.... like I do right now. New girl appeared on my radar, you see.

I remind you all again. This thread is in no way about Pakistan or any evil Muslims.

This thread is all about why Isreal is such a shitty little country.

Why Americans should keep supporting Israel. What do they get out of it? (they get squat, that's what)

And why shouldn't Israel be destroyed one day? There are plenty of folk who would love to do the honors.... Isreal is only "one nuke wide". LOL

One nuke will cut the Yahoodi-Paradise in two. Two, three more, will finish their story for good.

Stay on topic please. Thank you. LOL

**** And why shouldn't Israel be destroyed one day?
...... Posted by Tosser *****

......they have at least 150 nuclear missiles of their own......

......any country that tosses a nuke at them will be vaporized......

***** And that COMMONSENSE ... is not only different from the Muslim countries but about a 180 degrees different.
A polar opposite if you will.
And that in case you can't see it ... is a
BIG difference.

#62 | Posted by GZlives ******

......wrong......no difference at all........

......fundamentalist Jews, Christians and Muslims all suffer from the same sickness........


At the point in time when Israeli democracy gives way to religious fundamentalism, I will start questioning what level of financial support our government should be affording this foreign country.

#1 | Posted by moder8

Why aren't you questioning it now? We a deep deep in trouble in a war because of them!

We support Iraq and they are religious republic!

Israel is not America. So you can't call them "traitors".

#7 | Posted by Tosser

Most of the Jews in Isreal who were born in the US hold duel citizenship.

What do Jews, Christians and Muslims have in common?

The Old Testament! Yep folks you can thank the Jews for all our crazies.

Know what the ancient Jews did for fun and profit?

Genocide! Awesome history you guys have!

God made Man then man made religion.

Most of the Jews in Isreal who were born in the US hold duel citizenship.


OK... good point.

God made Man then man made religion.


My Grandpa used to say... God sent over 100,000 prophets... from before Abraham to Moses to Jesus to Mohamed to the same people (Jews/Arabs), so that they finally get it.

They still don't get it. Women can't drive cars in Saudi and they punch women in the face in Israel.

All Mid Eastern men think keeping beards wearing skull-caps makes them closer to God... actually it just makes you look like a monkey.

God tried his best. But because of his rule of "free will" He can't force people to behave.

Ever wondered why the Chinese weren't given the Old Testament? They were always more advanced than the rest of the world... why didn't God talk to them?

Because they didn't mess up so much, that's why. They don't need "guidance". LOL

The anti-semitism and raw hatred of Jews expressed in this thread is revolting.

The ONLY issue has to do with what level of support should the US taxpayer be extending a foreign country which may (or may not) be slipping into religious fundamentalism. Clearly many (most?)of the American people on some level question the amount of money being pumped into Iraq. What makes the issue with Israel so complex is that they are such a firm ally of the US throughout the years, and traditionally share our liberal democratic values.

which may (or may not) be slipping into religious fundamentalism.


"Slipping into"???

Brother, they're into it up to their neck. You choose to believe it or not.


What makes the issue with Israel so complex is that they are such a firm ally of the US


Firm ally or firm leech?

Dump these crazies and you make instant pals with other muslim crazies.. who though they are crazy... are much bigger in number.

It is only to your advantage. Go with the flow.

The anti-semitism and raw hatred of Jews expressed in this thread is revolting.


The anti-muslim sentiments and raw hatred of muslims expressed on this website everyday are not revolting to you?

Of course not. LOL

Tosser, the anti-Muslim comments on this site often are revolting. And I am similarly offended by them.

But to be honest with you, it was Islamic fundamentalists who carried out the 9/11 attacks killing thousands of innocent Americans. It kind of skews any Americans views on the subject

"They were always more advanced than the rest of the world... why didn't God talk to them?

Because they didn't mess up so much, that's why. They don't need "guidance"."

Whaaaat?

Y'a means to tell us that them yeller dudes was bern all advanced and civ'lized and tekneelawjeekal from the git go? No monkeying roun' at the 'ginning fer them. Daaaang!!!! Lucky them. The Good Lawd made them all perfekt and did'n need no he'p no how, while the of of us non yeller heathens just gotta make do wit' the Good Book.

"The anti-muslim sentiments and raw hatred of muslims expressed on this website everyday are not revolting to you?"

"But to be honest with you, it was Islamic fundamentalists who carried out the 9/11 attacks killing thousands of innocent Americans. It kind of skews any Americans views on the subject."


Actually, the attacks were bad enough but I really think all the images from all over the Muslim world of people dancing in the streets on 9/11 is what really affected Americans the most. I know I was at least as affected by that as I was by the attacks themselves. Say whatever you want about Americans but we at least have the decency to pretend we don't support indiscriminate killing and we definitely don't get off on it the way Muslims apparently do. The massive celebration showed that the attack was not carried out in the name of a small minority but in the name of a great many Muslims who would piss on our graves given the chance.

To expect us to forget that just isn't reasonable.

all the images from all over the Muslim world


I saw only one example of that. Some Palestinians. That is all.


The massive celebration


I don't recall any "massive celebration".

Where did it happen?

Y'a means to tell us that them yeller dudes was bern all advanced


For most of history, the Chinese have been more advanced scientifically than other civilizations (except for the last 200 years).

What held them back was that they became intellectually snooty. They figured they didn't need to know nothing from the outside world anymore.

They are catching up again, now.

Y'a means to tell us that them yeller dudes was bern all advanced and civ'lized


It takes more smarts to eat with damn chopsticks than with a spoon and fork.

To expect us to forget that just isn't reasonable.


I don't recall any joy in the streets that day.

But I will tell you my reaction and the reaction of everyone around me.

It was "oh, so it finally happened, huh?"

The US has spent the last 50 years (more) getting cozy with Islamic-type people. First for the oil. Then for anti-communist resistance (Islam is capitalist). To make it effective, you had to deal with some very nasty people and make them friends.

By making them friends, I mean you made them very rich and gave them influence in their areas until in many places they became the dominant force.

Saudi, for example... Iran was an accident, but it was American caused... and there were plenty of others.

So what went through our mind was "you lie down with dogs, you wake up with fleas."

Pakistan has been equally stupid... we did the same... so we say this to ourselves too.

The US has NEVER been friends with ordinary Muslim people. You don't even know what an ordinary Muslim looks like. LOL

It helped Kuwait and their fucked up snooty Royal family.

Yes.. it did a lot in Bosnia. THAT was for ordinary Muslims, I give you that.

But otherwise, the US only served snooty and dangerous Muslims.

Well, after the USSR went tits up, you tried to turn back the tide.

And there was a reaction.

How can you feed a snake for 50 years and then try to take him down in days and weeks? It will bite.

It bit you on 9-11.

Tosser - It wasn't just the Palestinians. I remember pictures from Egypt and other places. Then there were the clerics from all over the world who came out from under their rocks to crow about it. I remember watching a 60 Minutes story that aired while they were still digging out the bodies. Some bitch in a hijab is saying "We suffer so much, who cares about 9/11? Who cares?!". And at the time I thought that we should bomb her and family just to show someone cares about 9/11. Not nice, but an honest reaction at the time.

As for whether or not we had it coming, that has been argued to death. Most Americans payed no attention to this stuff prior to 9/11. I am not defending their ignorance, just telling you the way it was back then. So their major impression of the Middle East was images of scumbags dancing in the streets because 3,000 Americans were randomly slaughtered by psychopaths. Something like that leaves an impression that can't be overcome by calling us bigots. We may have let political correctness get out of hand but even that has its limits.

So their major impression of the Middle East


You already know my opinion of the Middle East....

Anyway, I didn't get any of those images, except of a bunch of Palestinians cheering.

It was later claimed that footage was from a different occasion and was used disingenuously by the news channel.

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