And those of us who decide to live within our means get the shaft.

Again.

This could be my first front page!

Sucks.

I'd like to propose a toast to the saving of the American economy, but I can't afford a drink now that my money is worth less.

This news needs to be up top in the front page.

"I can't afford a drink now that my money is worth less."

Not to worry, I am running for congress in 2010 and will propose a program to give everyone in America free drinks.

You got my vote!

And to think some welfare mother makes the rednecks head spin for taking a few thousand!!!

We're really fucked now.

Why couldn't it be, "House passes out".

that right and here comes socialism

thank you to the following three

fred raines
tim howard
jeff johnson

all three did such a bangup job on your jobs that obama how has you working for him.......

way to go comrades.........

YES, this Bill was SO fundamentally different than the one that did not pass..... lmfao!!

I am running for congress in 2010 and will propose a program to give everyone in America free drinks.

#5 | Posted by member2586

Place you order with a China Distributer now. There won't be a Distillery left in the States.

and here are some other blames to point at

mccain and lugar and other republicans talked two years ago about fannie mae and mac and were rebuffed by the DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY because they wanted to make sure that low income and minorities could have that big house even if they couldnt afford it

and thus......my description

stealth repriations...........and look what it got us

and one more thing

I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY WITH RUSH

when they came outside with frank it was like mayor daily saying

thank you for saving chicago mister capone.......

FRANK AND DODDS HAVE TO GO ......and GO NOW.......

and mccain had a real dick, he would have been screaming that for a long time

I am sad for America.

We have been ripped off again.

Thanks Congress.

Are you yelling in the library, BLT?

Shhhhhh!

woohoo a Victory for Bush-ling!!! In yer face lefties!!!(TM)

"And to think some welfare mother makes the rednecks head spin for taking a few thousand!!!"

Yes, the wellfare queens in Wall Street are dressed in suits and ties and speak and smell very well and can convince us if we don't help them the world ends. If congress can act with such urgency (two weeks) to bailout these losers, why can't they act with urgency to solve problems for regular people?

No longer will the objection that an idea is "socialist" or "big-government" be considered valid or legitimate when it comes to solving problems. Watch for some form of universal health coverage, it might not be free, but watch for it. How can we afford it, I don't know, but it we can bailout the losers in Wall Street with money we don't have, people are going to demand we bailout the 46 million uninsured with money we don't have. It's a matter of consistency.

Okay, so now I'm on the hook for $700,000,000,000.00

I'm gonna need a little time to come with that much.

YES, this Bill was SO fundamentally different than the one that did not pass..... lmfao!!

#11 | Posted by Corky

You can put lipstick on Paulson's Pig, but it's still Paulson's pig.

-a Victory for Bush-ling

The only victory Bush has is when he is able to tie his shoelaces in the morning. This Bill was little like the blank check/no regulatory changes Bill Paulson originally presented.

I'm just glad they added that pork for RailRoad Track Maintenance. I'm sure none of us will have cars much longer.

mccain and lugar and other republicans talked two years ago about fannie mae and mac and were rebuffed by the DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY
~BL2

Two Years ago, October of 2006 it was a REPUBLICAN MAJORITY.

Are you yelling in the library, BLT?

Shhhhhh!

#16 | Posted by Corky

actually I am trying to not stand up too soon and embarrass myslef at this great looking woman with huge tits that just walked in.

OH SHIT>.......why am I kidding myself.......I 'aint embarassing anyone

takes cyalsys 30 mins to work..........

-put lipstick on Paulson's Pig

Leave Sarah out out this!

mccain and lugar and other republicans talked two years ago about fannie mae and mac and were rebuffed by the DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY because they wanted to make sure that low income and minorities could have that big house even if they couldnt afford it

and thus......my description

stealth repriations...........and look what it got us

#13 | Posted by bushlovertwo at 2008-10-03 02:45 PM |

Post a link dumbass. Then you will see that it was the republicans in the majority. In addition---the problem started with the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act the removed protections placed there in 1933 to prevent just this scenario. Removed by GRAMM--McCains economic advisor of today.

Must you prove your stupidity and partisanship with every post?

here is a question that a writer to the houston chronicle viewpoints just asked yesterday

for years and years we have been told that we should not get into credit card debt
and NOW does this mean that to get us back into capitalism that we should all go out and MAX OUT THOSE CARDS.......if YOU WOMEN HAVENT ALREADY>....hee hee

out OF this

So they add some shitty pork into the mix and now its all good?

These people are the worst. I'm just digusted by the fact that I thought they were actually standing on principles for once when they initially rejected it.

no bob/.////////you are the idiot because you wont even think about dems being in charge for two years while all this was going south.
if they were so god damned concerned they could have done something about it.......OR AT LEAST TRIED

but with barny frank on his committee and DODD getting sweetheart deals from countrywide.....why would they...........

you are the one being stupid because you want to blame it all on one side and I dont.........

mccain should have been screaming about it with other republicans every day up to this point

two years ago about fannie mae and mac and were rebuffed by the DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY

It doesn't get any dumber than this.

again

tim howard
fred rains
J> johnson

A REPUBLICAN MAJORITY from Januray 2001 to Janurary 2007

6 Years with Total Control / 2 unfinished wars / Unchecked Greed / Unchecked crimes against the Constitution

One Fucked Texan by transplant who never would have gotten away from Momma hem if he didn't have a silver spoon up his butt.

Looking at this picture of these pork-pushing leeches makes me sick to my stomach.

here is the first of two

Well, it's official.

The "trickle" in 'trickle-down economics' is piss.

A REPUBLICAN MAJORITY from Januray 2001 to Janurary 2007

Funny how FACTS can ruin a perfectly good talking point.

Rush on!

and here is the second half

Tim Howard - Was the Chief Financial Officer of
>>> Fannie Mae. Howard "was a strong internal proponent of
>>> using accounting strategies that would ensure a "stable
>>> pattern of earnings" at Fannie. In everyday English -
>>> he was cooking the books. The Government Investigation
>>> determined that, "Chief Financial Officer, Tim
>>> Howard, failed to provide adequate oversight to key control
>>> and reporting functions within Fannie Mae,"
>>>
>>> On June 16, 2006, Rep. Richard Baker, R-La., asked
>>> the Justice Department to investigate his allegations that
>>> two former Fannie Mae executives lied to Congress in October
>>> 2004 when they denied manipulating the mortgage-finance
>>> giant's income statement to achieve management pay
>>> bonuses. Investigations by federal regulators and the
>>> company's board of directors since concluded
>>> that management did manipulate 1998 earnings to trigger
>>> bonuses. Raines and Howard resigned under pressure in late
>>> 2004.
>>>
>>> Howard's Golden Parachute was estimated at $20
>>> Million!
>>>
>>> Jim Johnson - A former executive at Lehman Brothers
>>> and who was later forced from his position as Fannie Mae
>>> CEO. A look at the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise
>>> Oversight's May 2006 report on mismanagement and
>>> corruption inside Fannie Mae, and you'll see some
>>> interesting things about Johnson. Investigators found that
>>> Fannie Mae had hidden a substantial amount of Johnson's
>>> 1998 compensation from the public, reporting that it was
>>> between $6 million and $7 million when in fact it
>>> was $21 million." Johnson is currently under
>>> investigation for taking illegal loans from Countrywide
>>> while serving as CEO of Fannie Mae.
>>>
>>> Johnson's Golden Parachute was estimated at $28
>>> Million.
>>>
>>> WHERE ARE THEY NOW?
>>>
>>> FRANKLIN RAINES? Raines works for the Obama
>>> Campaign as Chief Economic Advisor
>>>
>>> TIM HOWARD? Howard is also a Chief Economic Advisor
>>> to Obama
>>>
>>> JIM JOHNSON? Johnson hired as a Senior Obama
>>> Finance Advisor and was selected to run Obama's Vice
>>> Presidential Search Committee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

------------------------------
------------------------------
--------------------

Danforth,

It has been for the last 28 years.

so there's the link

housingdoom.com

only a democrat congress could make it where a site like that is online

It was socialism a la FMAE, FMAC, and Fed Res that caused this.

Hey BLT,

Got any e-mails about Obama being a mooslim you can post?

Hey, there is still hope. Maybe Bush doesn't sign this.......

Just kidding.

Joe, thanks, my cong rep voted no twice it appears. And Senator Karl Lenin voted yes.

I've told my wife we'd better start shopping for some really BIG condoms-and some good lube...Cause we're about to get FUCKED-big time!
Why can't they ever take us out to dinner first?

I am sooo tired of "trickle down" economics...My shirt collars always smell like piss from those rich fucks "tricklin' down" on me....and if that ain't bad enough-I have to wear brown shirts 'cause they tend to take a dump on me at the same time.

FrankF, oh no, not again, not the lousy comedy again!

BL2

AGAIN---post your LINK dumbass.

Why does the date say Mar 5 on the link to the house vote?

BLT I gotta say, those guys may be dirty but your namesake is the real culprit here and everyone knows it. The other people involved are minor players in comparison.

It wasn't just Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac that were the problems. You dumbasses don't seem to realize that they were just a symptom. The real problems are on WALL STREET you dumb fux, and low income home owners aren't the problem. Low income home owners have the highest payment rate of any home owners---it is the rich who bought large houses on speculation that they could sell them later at a profit.

But since when does reality make a difference to the brainwashed righties whose mantra for the last 30 years has been DEREGULATION DEREGULATION DEREGULATION DEREGULATION.

BL2

AGAIN---post your LINK dumbass.

#49 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at

I believe that I already have shit for brains

even danni has seen it...........

and danni...........you make a good point in some respects...........but bush couldnt have done all this..........

I have said that mistakes were made all around
but just think what people are saying about people in mccains campaign about a couple of them and WE DONT HEAR SQUAT ABOUT THESE FUCKIN CROOKS who are on the obama team.............why the hell not

"Anyone who disagrees with this bill, do something about it. Save these links and pull them back up on November 4th. Vote out the people that passed this pork-filled garbage. That is how you change things."

I was planning on looking this up so thanks for the link. Big shocker: Both piece of shit NJ senators and my congressmen voted Yes. I won't need any reminders come election time. I'm pretty sure I haven't voted Libertarian for all those spots but I'm still pissed. As much as I think the GOP needs to be bitch-slapped for putting Bush at its head as he fucked over the country for eight years, I may vote GOP for all three spots when they come up solely because that gives us the best chance of ousting these fucks. I really don't even want to be living in this country right now. (The answer to "Then why don't you leave?" is "Fuck You" so save it)

Hey BLT,

Got any e-mails about Obama being a mooslim you can post?

#43 | Posted by 726 at

you mean besides the one with the stupid hat on??

no.....thats a bad joke but your post is just an example of getting caught with THE TRUTH and you dont like it one bit...........

and again WHO LET THESE THREE LOSE.

barny frank and chris dodd......

and both of those SHOULD BE GONE TODAY......not made to be heros by the left

But since when does reality make a difference to the brainwashed righties

#52 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob

FF! ROTFLMAO!

Thanks for the humor, I really needed it.

pigs at the trough

"and danni...........you make a good point in some respects...........but bush couldnt have done all this.........."

Oh, he had lots of help but it was his administration and the buck is supposed to stop on his desk. I notice your selective outrage at the crooks who created all this but I miss your mentioning of Rick Davis, Phil Graham and other Republicans.

-a Victory for Bush-ling

The only victory Bush has is when he is able to tie his shoelaces in the morning. This Bill was little like the blank check/no regulatory changes Bill Paulson originally presented.

#21 | Posted by Corky at 2008-10-03 02:53 PM

I disagree. Bush really is an idiot and a crook(I look forward to a good chuckle and probably a good cry when the movie W comes out) but BushCo is behind this passage. And don't kid yourself. It is a Victory for him (though I believe it will ring hollow) and all the fatcat lobbyists. He stood up in front of the American People and told the Biggest Lie of his career (yes, even bigger than IRAQ)and once again the dummies of America bought it hook line and sinker.

I am beginning to believe that Congress truly are blind idiots leading the blind.

I believe that America was or is nowhere near the financial collapse as he made it out to be. It was all a confidence game. A shell game. And I believe it is a Lie. A Big Lie. A Very Big Lie. The Biggest and bestest Lie BushCo has ever told. The "horror" that he foretold was never to be. Unless he created this panic by his very words. Maybe for the CEOs that screwed the pooch there was financial ruin and panic in their future but not for me. And for the millions of Americans that unlike me have already crashed and burned because of the failed policies of this corrupt regime there is NO BAILOUT!

He has hoodwinked us once again! Again the Bush Administration shows you how it rules you by FEAR but you are too blind to see.

How anyone can believe this bullshit anymore is beyond me.

But, there you have the Bailout is passed and this Congress has succumbed once again to the lies and Fear Mongering of Bushco.

I am sorry to say that even Obama is having trouble standing up to the Big Lie.

I am very sad for America.

"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it"

And they did.

but I miss your mentioning of Rick Davis, Phil Graham and other Republicans.

#58 | Posted by danni at

Are you really surprised at that?

I apologize.

THIS IS THE CORRECT HOUSE LINK:

BL2

Address the facts--your link was weak as far as who did what when.

The REAL culprit is the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act that removed market protections placed after the Depression. Removed by GRAMM.

So much anger towards those who voted for the bill and who knew there would be outrage about it....just gotta wonder if they didn't know that it was either vote for it or really risk economic Armageddon....if so then they were doing the right thing even if it angered constituents....I suspect that the majority of the "no" votes were made by Congressmen without the courage to do what was necessary, instead they let others do the heavy lifting and now will bash them for it.
There are a few Ron Paul types who have been consistent so I'm not talking about them but many of the "no's" don't have a similar history. I think most of them acted out of political cowardice.

Thanks for the humor, I really needed it.

#56 | Posted by member2586 at 2008-10-03 03:22 PM | Reply

The humor escapes me. Maybe you can explain once you learn the language.

I apologize.

THIS IS THE CORRECT HOUSE LINK:

Allright!

My rep still voted no.

I didn't vote for the guy in 2006 since I voted straight Liberarian, but he earned my vote this time around.

Oh, he had lots of help but it was his administration and the buck is supposed to stop on his desk. I notice your selective outrage at the crooks who created all this but I miss your mentioning of Rick Davis, Phil Graham and other Republicans.

#58 | Posted by danni

not really

but who is more to blame........the people RUNNING those places into the ground or people who might have lobbyied for them.........

and again..........if those republicans did it.

where was barny frank and chris dodds.........

the whole thing is a bad deal for america and will possibly change forever our whole econoic structure.
and WHO is to blame can be certainly discussed but what about NOW..........the BAILOUT..........
and all those loans that people got WHO HAD NO BUSINESS GETTING THEM.......

mccain and lugar and other republicans talked two years ago about fannie mae and mac and were rebuffed by the DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY
~BL2

Two Years ago, October of 2006 it was a REPUBLICAN MAJORITY.

#23 | Posted by Zap at 2008-10-03 02

okay so it was a little less than two years ago

the point is that lugar in the senate and congressmen in the house were all trying to tell us that this shit was coming and there was even LEGISLATION PROPOSED BY mccain that the DEMS DEEP SIXED............look it up numbnuts...........

gotta go

have a great weekend everyone

BL2

Pay attention dUmmy.

GRAMM was the start of this downfall. Get it??

GRAMM-Leach-Bliley Act.

GRAMM was the start of this downfall. Get it??

GRAMM was the start of this downfall. Get it??

GRAMM was the start of this downfall. Get it??

GRAMM was the start of this downfall. Get it??

So Bob, was GRAMM the start of this downfall?

;-)

Here is a list of Senators by state and how they voted:
www.govtrack.us

Here is a list of Representatives by state and how they voted:
www.govtrack.us

#44 | Posted by JOE

Thanks for the links!

For the record, in my anger I indicated earlier that my congressman is a Dem. He's a Republican. The NJ senators are Dems. All three voted in favor of the crap.

Hey BLT,

Got any e-mails about Obama being a mooslim you can post?

#43 | Posted by 726 at 2008-10-03 03:04 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Naaahhhh... no mooslim emails but i betcha this ass clown is writing his representative about the 450k for each of the 200million of us.

BL2 is busy doing a wire transfer for some guy in Nigeria who cant get his inheritance without giving half of it away.

We be boned real good now.

Not much else I can say.

Does this mean that I can stop paying my mortgage now and they will reduce the principal and interest I owe??? HUH????

BL2 is busy doing a wire transfer for some guy in Nigeria who cant get his inheritance without giving half of it away.

uh what????

Modern American Democracy in action. "What? The overwhelming majority of you don't want this at all?", "Well tough, we're going to ram it through anyway and you're grandchildrens grandchildren can worry about paying it off too"...

GRAMM-Leach-Bliley Act.

Signed into law by?

Signed into law by?

It must have been Reagan, yeah, he was prez in 1999.

"I believe that I already have shit for brains

"even danni has seen it..........."

#53 | Posted by bushlovertwo at 2008-10-03 03:20 PM | Reply | Flag: Unusual honesty

What makes it even more remarkable is that there's a witness included ("even danni has seen it...........").

I suspect, however, that Mr. "shit for brains" might find this book somewhat handy:

Here is a question. If the taxpayer is paid back the money that Congress has lent out what is the big deal?? I am not going to pretend to know anything about economic issues since it is so greek to Me. But what will this hurt if the money is put back?? Just curious.

Larry

Larry - There is no fucking way we are going to be paid back. Unless they made some major changes that haven't been mentioned in antything I've read, zero accountability is built into the bill.

GRAMM-Leach-Bliley Act.

Signed into law by?

#77 | Posted by member2586 at 2008-10-03 04:02 PM | Reply

Answer the question DumMy. Signed in to law by--WHO. Then tell the vote in the senate and house. It was a veto proof bill. No matter if the President signed it or not--it would have become law--the President had no option because had he not signed it the republicans would have howled like banshees.

and that HOWL would have been:

DEREGULATION DEREGULATION DEREGULATION DEREGULATION

the point is that lugar in the senate and congressmen in the house were all trying to tell us that this shit was coming and there was even LEGISLATION PROPOSED BY mccain that the DEMS DEEP SIXED............look it up numbnuts...........

gotta go

have a great weekend everyone

#67 | Posted by bushlovertwo at 2008-10-03 03:37 PM | Reply

YOU need to look it up dipwad---the dems couldn't have deep sixed it---they were in the MINORITY.

Larry the problem is that on the one hand they say those assets (mortgaged backed paper/securities) is toxic, worthless, but on the other hand they claim that after a few years they will suddenly be valuable again so we can sell them, supposedly at a profit. Another problem is the price we pay for that junk. Some people complain that market price is too low so the gov will have to pay more than market price. If that happens, how much of a profit will the taxpayer really get? In any case, why should the government be in the business of "investing" anyways? Also how much of a profit do we really make if we have to borrow the money and then pay interest? I get the feeling interest rates will have to be high if the gov will issue $700B in debt all of a suddent. There is also inflation, will we really make a real profit when inflation (caused by $700B being injected into the economy) is calculated for?

I am just not sure this is a good "investment."

It was veto proof? In other words, many many dems voted for it.

Like I said I have no clues on economics. It's like a whole secretive language that I don't understand it all. So in esense it's sounding like welfare for wall street. So much Poppycock.

Larry

If the assets themselves are valuable, or will be someday, then someone would be buying them and the government wouldn't need to. We are taking a bunch of shit loans off of greedy corporations' backs so they can continue to do business, when in reality their balance sheet should be the one in the shitter - not ours.

All three of the Congress-cockeaters, supposedly there to work towards the best interests of my nation and my state, voted in favor of this bloated sack of shit?!

**begins loading the shotgun**

/just kidding
//I don't own a shotgun
///Now, bladed instruments of death and dismemberment on the other hand...

"Like I said I have no clues on economics. "

Don't worry, neither do many people in Wall Street or Washington, D.C.

In other words, many many dems voted for it.

#85 | Posted by member2586 at 2008-10-03 04:43 PM | Reply

Yes they did---now see if you can find out WHY so many dems voted for it--and WHY it was first passed 54-44 along strict party lines and ZERO dems voted for it.

HINT: The answer is in the link.

Bob's link led me to a great story on conservative disappointment with the Republican party. Thanks, Bob, for your indirect assistance.

"If the assets themselves are valuable, or will be someday, then someone would be buying them and the government wouldn't need to."

I have a friend who works for a financial services company (so he's 100% on board with this) and he was trying to tell me that not all these loans are really bad. So I ask: Then what is the fucking problem? And he says: "Nobody will buy them". So I ask: "Well if the loan payments are being made and the loan is worth something because the borrower is paying, then what is so bad about holding it for the time being?" He wasn't sure what the answer is but he's sure there is one.

"led me to a great story on conservative disappointment with the Republican party."

The DNC is more conservative than the GOP and has been for years now. Unless you want to count fake "social conservatism" which is really not conservative at all as using the government to push values on others is not conservative.

"Like I said I have no clues on economics. "
Don't worry, neither do many people in Wall Street or Washington, D.C.

Posted by member2586 at 2008-10-03 04:51 PM | Reply

Then why in Gods green earth are they fucking with TaxPayer money if they don't even understand it. You wouldn't hire a plumber to do brain surgery would You??

Larry

Sully, the reason is most likely due to accounting rules. Whether a loan is being paid off or not, its "value" on the books is (at least in part) based on the current market value of the collateral. So if a loan was given for a house that was worth $300,000 and now that house is only worth $200,000, the bank who issued the loan has to recognize that loss right now even if the house isn't being sold right now for that price.

Corporations don't like to have to take a loss. It makes them look bad and it makes people at the top lose their jobs. So instead they whine to Washington and we all take the loss instead of them.

okay so it was a little less than two years ago

=======================

Now those are facts you can believe in!

Got anymore bullshit to throw out bullshitlover?

gotta go

have a great weekend everyone
#67 | Posted by bushlovertwo at 2008-10-03 03:37 PM | Reply

=========================

Some things never change. Bullshitlover is called out on posting crap and he runs away.

Here is a list of Senators by state and how they voted:
www.govtrack.us

Here is a list of Representatives by state and how they voted:
www.govtrack.us
#44 | Posted by JOE

This needs to be posted twice so everyone can see the names of those who need to be remembered.

When the time comes to vote remember, give them the finger and the boot.

At the very least they have earned every last pull of the lever against them.

They ignored our shout, now we get to vote them out.

PROTEST IN NOVEMBER -- DON'T VOTE OBAMA OR McCAIN --

I am SO angry over this $800 BILLION bailout bill I am going to protest with my vote -- the only source of protest left open to me. I never planned on voting for the erratic, Neocon McCain so had decided to finally give Obama my vote as of about one month ago after listening to him say he would stop this kind of crap. NO MORE. Obama was suppose to help stop this kind of corruption, Obama was to be the new "King of Change and Hope." Bull. All reports said Obama was back in DC working behind the scenes to bring more Democrats over to vote for this bailout swindle.

Obama could at least have made a stand and shown he meant what he said he stood for and voted against this massive theft. He could have voted "No" on the bailout bill but Obama is apparently as much as a corporate shill and toady as the rest of them. My eyes are now opened. Obama can be bought.

I don't know who else is even running on November's ticket. Nader? Mickey Mouse? Whoever it is one of them will get my protest vote in November. My vote sure won't go to those two corporate whores Obama and McCain.

The bail out wont do dick..

This is going to get rough.

You heard it here first.. we will see a 1000 point drop in October once 10,000 is broken down. We are testing resistance now. The business will start to fold in droves within 2 months. Credit is a like a log jam and you wont be able to get it flowing fast enough or soon enough..

If you are not in money market or cash you are a fool.

Plenty of pain to come.

Legio

The bail out wont do dick..

This is going to get rough.

You heard it here first.. we will see a 1000 point drop in October once 10,000 is broken down.

You're so right.

Listen to the lying politicians today screaming we need this bailout out bill signed immediately. The markets will collapse, businesses will fold, your 401k will be worthless.

Do you know as soon as this bailout bill was signed, Bush turned and said to everyone there probably won't be any changes in available credit, liquidity, etc. until the END of the next quarter! When Bush is safely tucked away at his ranch in Paraguay.

What can we average Americans do to protect ourselves from the looming fallout?

This bailout bill was only to get the politicians enough money to buy them some time until after November's election is over.

He wasn't sure what the answer is but he's sure there is one.

#92 | Posted by Sully

* * * *

The answer is that under mark-to-market accounting, the good loans have to get marked down, as well as the bad. And to mark down the loans, you have to debit the capital accounts, which draws down your loans reserves, thereby restricting further the amount of money banks can lend.

MTM accounting was yet another abomination thrown at us by the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, and is one of the several things that has made a bad situation much worse.

@#100 | Posted by CalifChris

I agree with you but don't vote for mickey mouse, they don't even count those, vote for a 3rd party candidate.. it doesn't matter who, just so long as its one of them.

"If you are not in money market or cash you are a fool."

Hey Legio, aren't money markets also a risk?

"If you are not in money market or cash you are a fool."

Hey Legio, aren't money markets also a risk?

#106 | Posted by nullifidian

I think your right, I think the real thing people should concentrate on with the last little bit of your money you do have is to get your money out of dollars and into hard assets. (I bought a lot of gold before the vote, so if the dollar tanks I'll be able to hang on to my money.) There is an awful lot of cash being thrown at the problem and that can only cause inflation.

The other thing about this is debt is held in dollars so, those of us in debt will do ok as the dollar's value falls so will the debt value. What you want to try to do is consolidate that debt into a few of things a possible though so if the banks calls in your loan you only loose one or two things.

"When you see blood in the streets, buy."

#100 | Posted by CalifChris at 2008-10-03 05:59 PM

that is seriously misguided...if the Democrats don't win the White House in November we are all screwed.

" My vote sure won't go to those two corporate whores Obama and McCain.

#100 | Posted by CalifChris"

"that is seriously misguided..."

Null,

Are you going to be around for a bit?

I read this analogy of the bailout that summarizes it's two main options. Thought I'd pass it on:

I'll give you $1000 and put your junk on eBay

You need money but you can't pay me back ... fine. Here's what I'm gonna do. Here's $1000. And what I'm gonna do for you is clean all the crap out of your basement and sell it on eBay for whatever I can get. If it's more than $1000, I keep the difference. If after five years I still can't sell your crap, you're going to pay me the difference between what I sold your crap for and $1000.

This is the primary option in the bailout rescue plan. Our credit system is backed up worse than a high protein/low fiber diet. It needs to be cleansed and what's in the way is a bunch of junky old crap called mortgage backed securities. Nobody wants them and even if they did, nobody knows what they're worth. And after we buy them we're going to (eventually) turn around a sell them to someone else, hopefully for more than what we paid for them. And if despite our best efforts we can't sell them or recoup what we paid for them after five years, then the entity we bought them from has to pay us the difference. Either way we make most, if not all of our money back, plus some.

Why is this bad? Well, there is truly not a very effective system in place for getting our money back. The theory is solid but in practice it may not work.

Option two: The "you're my bitch" plan

You need money but you can't pay me back ... fine. Here's what I'm gonna do. Here's $1000. And what I'm gonna do is move in with you and make sure you keep your finances in line from here on out. If you can't get your affairs in order, I'll kick you out. One day, when I think you can handle it, I'm going to leave and sell my part of your house back to you, or whomever, for its improved value.

Economists love this plan. Conservatives are scared shitless by this plan. The last thing conservatives and a good number of sensible Americans want is for the United States government to own a controlling amount of preferred shares in a private corporation. (The preferred shares are the really good stuff: when a company gets hit, the preferred shareholders are the last ones to feel it.) This scenario virtually guarantees that not only we get our money back but that we make a profit when we sell the shares.

There are two big problems with this scenario and neither one is that it won't work. One is that conservatives won't do it. They do not want the government owning any part of a private company, let alone having the ability to control that company through a majority shareholder position. The second problem is that the company in question does not want the government owning any part of their private company, let alone having the ability to control their company through a majority shareholder position.

Ah yes, Christmas in October...

Pass me some of that PR and Virgin Islands RUM the taxpayers just paid for...
and watch out for those wooden arrows we just bought..
Daddy, can I ride my new bicycle Santa Claus Congress just bought me on this new auto racing track we just bought for NASCAR?
Don't worry we can all wear all those woolen mittens Cogress just bought with your tax money Daddy!

Yes, isn't wonderful what Congress can do when the Hogs gather for their taxpayer paid for banquets?

We sure will need plenty of that RUM when Obama takes over the government...

But don't worry, he will take care of our cirrosis of the liver when he makes the healthcare system the same as he did Illinois healthcare... cutting the number of state and county doctors in half, no more home visits... you will just have to crawl to the doctor's office. But don't worry, those doctors won't be able to see you anyway since they will be too busy writing prescriptions that won't cover a full month worth of medicinal requirements...
Yes, CHANGE... from a good health system to a third world health system while he spends billions to upgrade third world countries... then WE will be a third world country.
Enjoy...

And for you doubting Thomases out there, a true story. My older sister only gets $800 a month from SSA. So she has to use Illinois Medicade. After Obama got done "fixing" Illinois healthcare, she went SIX MONTHS without her needed shots. She has rhumatoid arthritis and she was so crippled, she couldn't open doors or walk up the stairs. Now that he is no longer a State Senator, her medicines have been resumed BUT her hands are permanently damaged so they are more like claws than hands. She can't open doors, hold a cup or many other things most people can do. She now needs her hands operated on in order to restore SOME functionality to them thanks to MR Obama. That is the CHANGE that sick people of this nation can look forward to if Obama becomes President.

AU looks like short positions are the only game in town. Will see what happens this weekend on the markets. We might go to 2002/2003 levels soon enough.

REALPLUS

I know I read they put a ban on short selling last week. Not sure how temporary that is or if that ban has expired yet. Probably one of the market guys on DR can answer that.

Hey Legio, aren't money markets also a risk?

#106 | Posted by nullifidian

A money market FUND is protected by SIPC up to $500,000 especially if held at a brokerage.

What can we average Americans do to protect ourselves from the looming fallout?

This bailout bill was only to get the politicians enough money to buy them some time until after November's election is over.

#103 | Posted by CalifChris

Its political cover to show they are doing SOMETHING. This amount of money is like a fly trying to wrestle an elephant to the ground.

The flight of capital to safe havens over seas is occurring as we speak. The dollar devaluation has begun and deflation of assets has begun .. its a double whammy.

If you have dry powder that is federally insured you should sit until capitulation occurs in the market. It WILL happen soon.

Putting your money into gold is only an option until the government does what FDR did and outlaws the ownership of gold or other hard assets. It may be a necessary step to stabilize currency since all world currencies are fiat. Unfortunately there is not enough hard assets in the world to cover the amount of dollars floating around unless gold, silver platinum all rise to huge values to back the dollars that abound..

stay tuned this is going get wild. We are definitely living in exciting economic times of historic proportions. the world as we know it will be distinctly different after this crisis resolves.

Address the facts--your link was weak as far as who did what when.

The REAL culprit is the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act that removed market protections placed after the Depression. Removed by GRAMM.

Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act

GRAMM is now McCains economics advisor.

Republicans can never accept responsibility for their own actions. Republicans---the Pass the Buck Party. Republicans---The Buck Stops Someplace Else Party.

GRAMM is the problem. GRAMM started the problem. GRAMM was the architect behind deregulation.

GRAMM is now McCains economics advisor. McCain supported deregulation his entire carreer.

Them's the facts Jack.

#62 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at

GOD DAMN I hope you are online today.

this is from yesterdays houston chronicle

"GRamm is no longer with the mccain campaign. More important: This is nonsense on stilts. The legislation that the obama camp most often cites is the Gramm-Leach-Biley Act, which passed the Senate in 1999 by a 90-8 martin and was signed enthusiastically by bill clinton. THIRTY-EIGHT democrats voted FOR IT, including chuck schumer, john kerry, chriss dodd,john edwards, dick durbin, tom daschke, and barak obama'a running mate
JOE BIDEN.
THe "LEACH" in the legistlations title was a founder of republicans for obama.

"MEANWHILE, who sought to intervene when fannnie mae metastasized? john mccain. who wanted to keep the 'party' going? the part of Roosevelt"

sp there asswipe...get your own fickin facts right before you start lecturing me about ANYFUCKIN THING

I voted for colbert in the primaries. I will vote for john stewart, because i'm a sucker for the straight man comedy act...

Stuart/Colbert '08!

wait ...

I'm still voting for Paris.

Stewart/Colbert '08!

sorry

#115 AU, short ban was only against 900 mainly
financial stocks. Shorts are back in play on Tuesday,
3 days after bill signing was the rule.

BL2

Of course you fail to mention that Gramm's 298 pages were stuck in the middle of a huge omnibus spending bill required to keep the federal government operational. Snuck in under the radar in the budget bill that had to pass to keep the U.S. running - just the way Gramm planned it.

GRamm is no longer with the mccain campaign....

ONLY because McCain was forced to drop Republican Senator Phil Gramm as financial advisor for his campaign because during a recent speech Gramm had given he call hard-working Americans "a nation of whiners...."

McCain was forced to dump him because of the cry of outrage from Americans about Gramm's arrogant remark but otherwise, don't kid yourself, Gramm would still be working for McCain.

Not only that, neither Gramm's nor McCain's camp would respond to reporters when asked a short time ago if it was true that, if McCain was elected President, Phil "Deregulator" Gramm was rumored to be McCain's choice for Secretary of Treasury.

Sure Clinton signed the 10,000 page must-pass Omnibus Bill but how many people in Congress, even Clinton, were aware of the sneaky 262-page bill Gramm sunk inside the 10,000 page Omnibus bill which gave the banks and financial institutions the right to deregulate and run amok -- the result of which action by Gramm you are seeing today in the markets and financial institutions. Not only that, Gramm's wife is just as sleezy as she worked hand in hand with Ken Lay and the Enron mess. The Gramms are a couple of crooks.

"By their friends ye shall know them" and McCain's "friends" are some of the biggest deregulation crooks in D.C.

CHRIS

I posted an analogy of the bailout I'd read elsewhere above in post #112.

The real problem here was that the WH chose not to share the looming crisis with anyone else. After all, they'd had their plan drawn up for months, yet Congress was left to have to come up with something ASAP. Of course it isn't a perfect bill.

I don't know if you've read that Obama plans to revisit this bailout plan if he's elected. If this kept the markets from crashing it was needed. It can be tweaked once the election is over. A complete meltdown of Wall Street would have hurt a lot more than this bailout plan ever would.

GOD DAMN I hope you are online today.

Hello puppet.

this is from yesterdays houston chronicle

Houston? Isn't that in Texas? No bias there at all is there--no twisting of the facts.

"GRamm is no longer with the mccain campaign.

Not quite true, not quite accurate. Gramm stepped down after his "whiners" speech, but still travels with McCain and advises him on economics. He doesn't have the title anymore--but he still has the job. McCain has had to hide GRAMMS position after his terrible gaffe. Here is how you post a link.

On July 18, 2008 Gramm stepped down from his posit