Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs

Joseph E. Stiglitz: There are four fundamental problems with our financial system, and the Paulson proposal addresses only one. The first is that the financial institutions have all these toxic products -- which they created -- and since no one trusts anyone about their value, no one is willing to lend to anyone else. The Paulson approach solves this by passing the risk to us, the taxpayer -- and for no return.

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Oops, that should read: Paulson plan only addresses 1 of 4 problems.

I heard tonight that the "oversight" committee which was suppose to be set up to see that Paulson didn't use the money for anything illegal would have had Paulson as one of the committee members!

This bailout bill is so filled with loopholes and scam clauses as more and more of the details emerge the entire bailout bill should be thrown out.

Pigs at the trough...

www.youtube.com

Here is the problem....

"This bailout bill is so filled with loopholes and scam clauses as more and more of the details emerge the entire bailout bill should be thrown out".

#2 | Posted by CalifChris at 2008-09-30 05:11 AM


Chris,

Be specific, please no talking points. Just tell us how you see it and show us the numbers.

The bailout bill they just voted down allowed foreign company's U.S. subsidiaries to apply for bailouts

There's a big one for ya

The market is no creditable because inflation is all messed up.

If the banks loan money at 5% they are actually losing money because inflation is higher so the banks don't loan money.

Bush administration, republicans, and the elite oil industry created this whole mess and don't won't to take responsibility for the mess.


The people that are for this bail-out are people that have money directly involved. The people that don't have money involved (or at least they think they don't), don't want it.

Socialism. don't cha just love it. breathe in that stale air of economic stagnation.

but we must support our upper crust. you're all just a bunch of savages. cant you see that they need your money. you're gonna give it up or they will take it. it's time to pay the bills.

since we do not live in an agrarian society anymore, there is no living off the grid. you're all damned if you do, damned if you don't and what's even worse, me too.

I just heard that some banks are leveraged 2000%. what bizarro world do we live in? and why the hell would we reward a manner of conducting business that would do business this way? try it with your account books at home.

The people that are for this bail-out are people that have money directly involved. The people that don't have money involved (or at least they think they don't), don't want it.

Well lipzo,

You are wrong, I have money involved, quite a large sum actually and I still don't want the bailout.

The difference here is I keep to my principles, and I notice you republican neoliberals spout a whole lot about principles but wash that out the door when you stand to lose something.

Your moral and ethical character is showing clearly here, maybe those things mama told you when you were little didn't sink in because you were absent that day.

money, why you hating on me?

the people that are directly affected by the derivatives market are certainly not average americans.

i have a few investments too. I've lost quite a bit and i expect to loose quite a bit more before it's over. I'm buying stock now. i'm loosing on it but i think it will come back. it's a huge risk but i can afford it.

i also do not want the bail-out. not in it's present condition. but, this thing is gonna pass whether the people want it or not.

But i'm not worried about that shit. I'm worried about what it makes us as a country.

what the hell is a republican neo-liberal? i'm an independent. you're an ass.

Excellent analysis by Joseph E. Stiglitz!

1 This "cure" is another one of these rearrangements: somehow, by stripping out the bad assets from the banks and paying fair market value for them, the value of the banks will soar.

Yes it will.

2 There is, however, an alternative explanation for Wall Street's celebration: the banks realized that they were about to get a free ride at taxpayers' expense.

Almost true.

3. The banks will pass on their lousiest mortgages. Paulson may try to assure us that we will hire the best and brightest of Wall Street to make sure that this doesn't happen. (Wall Street firms are already licking their lips at the prospect of a new source of revenues: fees from the US Treasury. But even Wall Street's best and brightest do not exactly have a credible record in asset valuation; if they had done better, we wouldn't be where we are. And that assumes that they are really working for the American people, not their long-term employers in financial markets. Even if they do use some fancy mathematical model to value different mortgages, those in Wall Street have long made money by gaming against these models. We will then wind up not with the absolutely lousiest mortgages, but with those in which Treasury's models most underpriced risk. Either way, we the taxpayers lose, and Wall Street gains.

Good point, but there's already a lot of pain and modesty there.

4 There are four fundamental problems with our financial system, and the Paulson proposal addresses only one. The first is that the financial institutions have all these toxic products--which they created--and since no one trusts anyone about their value, no one is willing to lend to anyone else. The Paulson approach solves this by passing the risk to us, the taxpayer--and for no return.

There is a reason -- not doing it causes bankig in he US as we know it to bomb!

5 The second problem is that there is a big and increasing hole in bank balance sheets--banks lent money to people beyond their ability to repay--and no financial alchemy will fix that.

Good point, and there will still be some pain -- people will be booted from those homes. But there needs to be an assurance that a market will continue to exist.

6 The third problem is that our economy has been supercharged by a housing bubble which has now burst. The best experts believe that prices still have a way to fall before the return to normal, and that means there will be more foreclosures. No amount of talking up the market is going to change that. The hidden agenda here may be taking large amounts of real estate off the market--and letting it deteriorate at taxpayers' expense.

Sure

7 The fourth problem is a lack of trust, a credibility gap. Regrettably, the way the entire financial crisis has been handled has only made that gap larger.

They have to move fast?


Here are my favorite parts:

...why didn't they propose a more credible plan? With lack of oversight and transparency the cause of the current problem, how could they make a proposal so short in both?

This is one of the things that blew my mind -- that bill was essentially a $700B blank check written tot the people who caused the problem, and didn't so much as ASK POLITELY that they change the practices that led to the problem in the first place.

If a quick consensus is required, why not include provisions to stop the source of bleeding, to aid the millions of Americans that are losing their homes? Why not spend as much on them as on Wall Street? Do they still believe in trickle-down economics, when for the past eight years money has been trickling up to the wizards of Wall Street? Why not enact bankruptcy reform, to help Americans write down the value of the mortgage on their overvalued home? No one benefits from these costly foreclosures.

This is the other. People look at you like you're a left-wing nut when you make arguments like this -- Kucinich was the only one I heard make this argument in the hearing.

The fact is, it's sound economics, much much sounder than the bill that failed.

I hope Congress is paying attention.

money, why you hating on me?

I am not hatin on you. I am just showing that this effects all americans, all of us.

Hey, did you notice how much the feds have dumped so far into the market but now we need to make a tax burden on paper.

This will be one of the greatest thefts of our country's history all accepted and wished for by the masses.

Stiglitz: Either way, we the taxpayers lose, and Wall Street gains.

Townncountry, #11: Good point, but there's already a lot of pain and modesty there.

Come again?

First, your response is a complete non-sequitur.

Second, WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING?

If there were anywhere near the appropriate level of pain and modesty, past and current finance CEO's, CFO's, etc. would be lining up to (A) donate substantial portions of their wealth to a self-sponsored bailout fund, and (B) publicly offer sincere, abject apologies for what they've done.

NOT such an excellent anaylsis TC. Let me ask you WHO would be paying into this proposed "special reserve fund"? Banks already pay for their deposit insurance. Would it be say mutual funds? pension funds? state and local governments? Federal government? Endowements? Higher Education? Exchanges. He leaves so many questions unanswered that his ideas are just that raw ideas.

Brokerage firms heh, how many of them are left? Hedge funds, perhaps but that will drive them overseas..

The idea of preferred stocks has been around for a long time, and it's nothing new Warren Buffett did it, and many Forgn. Investors have done too it by buying equity stakes. What the TARP does is support the loan market, and yes this will help. Will it solve all problems? Hardly. Look at the TED spread THE WORLD markets are roiled in a credit crisis meltdown......


The only bright spot I can see in this whole mess is that the Senate is talking about taking the AMT tax away.

Other than that, we are fucked.

You guys know that I am given to hyperbole occassionally, but this ain't one of those times.

Next to signing our money system over to the federal reserve, this is the biggest fucking americans have had. And this one is fatal.

We are no longer in charge of our own destiny (if we ever were).

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