"John McCain says that partly because of his persistent support of the surge, we are now winning the Iraq war. He defines victory as an Iraq that is a democratic ally. Yet he advocates continued US military support to an Iraqi government led by Shiite religious parties committed to the establishment of an Islamic republic. He takes a harder line on Iran than President Bush, but supports Iraqi factions that are Iran's closest allies in the Middle East. He praises the Awakening and but seems not to have realized that the Iraqi government is intent on crushing it. He has denounced the Obama-Biden plan for a decentralized state but has said nothing about how he would protect Iraq's Kurds, the only committed American allies in the country.

George W. Bush has put the United States on the side of undemocratic Iraqis who are Iran's allies. John McCain would continue the same approach. It is hard to understand how this can be called a successor a path to victory."

The only thing I disagree with in the article is that the author, Peter Galbraith, writed that Barack Obama is for surrender. I believe this is wrong. Who would he surrender to?

How can one turn this many corners and NOT be going in a circle?

"My friends, as a POW I know its victory when General Petreous can walk down any street in Baghdad, eating an ice cream cone and be greeted as a liberator. I was a POW so I know what being liberated means. And I like ice cream. Ice cream and cookies. And I know a carpet bargain when I see one, even if I have to peak around a couple of attack helicopters and a 100 soldiers to see it. My friends,I promise, in about a hundred years or so, that what I said was happening in baghdad last year, will, in fact, come true. Trust me. I was a POW and I've never met George W Bush, so I won't tell you a fib."

John S(uspender) McSame.

Two big changes have already happened in Iraq, both of which have nothing to do with the surge.

Ethnic cleansing has been completed. The Shiites targets have either been killed, restricted to Anbar province or left the country.

Iraq is now aligned with Iran and feeling independent enough to tell the US to get the hell out. Shrub has agreed.

These people can't wait to get their country back. China will outbid us for their oil, because they have more money.

Harry Reid was right.
We can't win.
We have lost already.

Surrender is the way.
Get out now while the getting is good.
Let the Sunnis' and the Shiite's negotiate a settlement.
President Obama will broker a deal!

Be Well.

Unfortunately, what many fail to realize is that you guys lost this little gig the day you invaded.

Iraq was lost the very second it began. People are just now accepting this undesputable fact.

Larry

Talk about "Flaming Fucking Hypocrisy"!!! The LA Times which was eagerly head and shoulders up Bush's sleazy-slimy,rectum from day one is now in the dying fits of this Nazi-like Govt.,"questioning" the policies of the Bush Regime! What a Fucking Laugh!!!

Gee. Persian sympathetic Shia control much of the south, Sunnis control the middle, and Kurds have much of the north, with a smattering of all kinds of minorites scattered around. They hate each other.

Just like it was 100 years ago, before some know-it-all in an office in London drew some arbitrary lines on a map as a "nation".

We've just spent another trillion dollars to enforce his lines for another decade.

The LA Times has been a joke from the moment General Foods bought the journal from the Chandlers and installed a cereal maker bean counter with absolutely zip journalism background as it's publisher. A long-tenured writer at the paper printed an editorial about the glaringly abysmal sound characteristics of the then-brand new Staples Center, which prompted the Staples organization to phone up the suits at General Foods and threaten to pull all of their print advertising from the paper, who panicked and called Capt. Crunch and instructed him to fire the writer and print a retraction.

The Los Angeles Times is just a glorified advertising circular with an ever-diminishing news hole.

I doubt if the people behind the occupation of Iraq, and many other things that have transpired over the last several years, perhaps even including the current financial difficulties, could have imagined a greater success.

WHATSLEFT

Hey, W was already a huge success at failure before he was elected. He was primed and ready to fail BIG

"What Kind of 'Victory' in Iraq?"

The Vietnam kind.

I was waiting for Obama to ask McCain to define victory in Iraq in the debate, unfortunately he never did. If it is finding WMD, there never were any. If it is getting rid of Saddam, he's a corpse. If it was getting rid of al Qaeda's #3 guy, they've killed and/or captured him about 67 times now. Since he likes to say Obama is all about "santching defeat from the jaws of victory" he ought to be able to give you at least a half assed idea of what "victory" means.

Excellent article.

GE, the parent company of MSNBC, will be seeing a lot of success in Iraq. They just signed a $7 Billion deal with the country.

This invalidates Olbermanns message.

"This invalidates Olbermanns message."

Really?

How so?

Olberman makes them money. I'm very glad he does.

To paraphrase Michael Moore: "These folks will sell you the rope to hang themseves with if they think they can make enough money from it. I hope to be that rope."

It's like the people who say global warming is a myth because Al Gore isn't green enough. Straw, man.

We never had anything to gain over there. The people who still support this wars would rather see Americans die over there needlessly than admit they were wrong.

Sully,

We never had anything to gain over there. The people who still support this wars would rather see Americans die over there needlessly than admit they were wrong.

I disagree. Yes, that likely does apply to a small minority. However, I think most Americans feel that if we broke it, we have to fix it. Real progress has been made in the last 18 months, we need to ride that tide as long as the wave is still rolling (man, did that sound like a TonyRoma sentence or what???!!!???).

My point being - supporting a favorable outcome, at this point, does not necessarily translate into supporting the intitial decision.

Jeff, why should we spend 10 billion a month helping a member of OPEC that has over 87 billion in its own treasury????
We should tell Iraq that everything done from here on they pay for. We should start pulling troops out and tell the Iraqis to either handle it or not, its their country, we've been there long enough, we don't owe them an endless committment. We simply can't afford Iraq any more because we never could afford it in the first place. I say anyone that claims we should continue there should immediately demand the repeal of the Bush tax cuts for the rich or else STFU.

"My point being - supporting a favorable outcome, at this point, does not necessarily translate into supporting the intitial decision."

I guess you are right but I still think my statement applies to a large number of people. I personally don't believe "You broke it you have to fix it" but I guess some people do. I personally believe that you can't owe a debt to anyone who is shooting at you.

I don't see many people saying "Well it was a mistake to go in but now we have obligations....". I hear people talking about winning the war on terror and their opponents "snatching defeat from the jaws of victory" and all this nonsense that ignores the fact that we never had any reason to be there. Those people want to pretend that they've been right all along. And they will continue the charade indefinitley no matter what it costs so long as they aren't the ones paying.

We should tell Iraq that everything done from here on they pay for. We should start pulling troops out and tell the Iraqis to either handle it or not, its their country, we've been there long enough, we don't owe them an endless committment.

They are not quite ready to operate in a manner that you suggest. We made the decision to go in there, we have an obligation to see their nation through to stability. Now, if we were in the exact same boat as we were in 2006, I would tend to agree with you. However, that isn't the case. Real progress has been made; measurably so. As long as progress continues to be made, we need to see this through. The long-term effect of prematurely bailing out will cost us more than what we spend in the short-term to assist Iraq in becoming a mild, theocratic democracy.

I say anyone that claims we should continue there should immediately demand the repeal of the Bush tax cuts for the rich or else STFU.

....Or, we could simply demand dramatic cuts on superfluous spending elsewhere - missile shields, corporate welfare, personal entitlements, etc.

Sully,

Certainly some people are so beholden to the initial decision that they rationalize to an absurd level.

However, for the time being, oil is critical to our entire existence and stability in the ME is crucial. As long as Iraq continues to show meaningful progress, it is in our best interest (IMO) to see this through.

.....the Shia's must be laughing at us like crazy...

.....we took out secular Saddam, installed an Islamic regime that cooperates with Iran, they have 80 Billion in the bank, and we are still paying for paving their roads......

.....what suckers......

"As long as Iraq continues to show meaningful progress, it is in our best interest (IMO) to see this through."

AT 10 billion a month??? No...it is NOT in our best interests and yes Iraq has the money to pay it own costs of fighting any insurgency and rebuilding. We are broke. OUr military is worn out. We need to face reality and ignore any and all talking points that say we need to spend more or stay longer in a country that does not want us there. Any oil coming from the ground of Iraq will be sold through the international market and will cost what OPEC can charge for it.

".....what suckers......"

It is those who keep chanting..."victory" instead of being willing to finally admit that going into Iraq was a very bad idea which will end up having bad consequences. NO matter how long we stay there Iraq will never become an ally of the US, will always be more friendly towards Iran than the US.
It was predicted by lots of us right here.
It is simply too expensive to allow the stubborn to dictate policy any longer. When President Obama takes office we will start leaving Iraq regardless of the whines from the right.

It is not about Victory or Defeat.

It is about doing the right thing.

As for the "you broke it you fix it" line...

It was broke long before we got there and all we have done is make it worse. We should never have been there (at least not like this) and we should do the right thing and withdraw our troops. Call it what you want.

Leaving that Hornets Nest is not "surrender" (who would we be surrendering to?) it is doing the intelligent thing and give Iraq back to the Iraqi's.

Is America safer or weaker now since we have occupied Iraq?

If is safer we should continue on the course we are on. If it is weaker it is time to reevaluate the strategy and change to the course that makes America stronger.

"We made the decision to go in there,"

What you mean WE paleface?

WE did not get a chance to make the decision.
WE were not consulted in the matter.
WE were fed a pack of lies.
WE are left holding the bag.

WE did not break it so WE should not have to fix it.

NoGov4Me you must be asleep at the helm because not only did an Iraqi General testify that they moved the chemical and biological weapons to Iran under the cover of earthquake aid, but this year they uncovered and removed over 500 tons of yellow cake uranium from Iraq. Of course don't let facts get in any of your peoples way. How many of you have served in the military and done combat tours or been to Iraq. I though so, pure silence followed by ignorance, just like the article writer. How about keeping your mouths shut on subjects you know nothing about. You wouldn't speak in a blog on other subjects you know nothing about so why show your ignorance here. Oh yeah, so you can run down McCain and Bush. Anything to justify your cowardly, meaningless existences.

How about all you liberals carrying your puny butts over to the middle east and blog and protest the way you do here. See how long you stay alive. Of course it is as likely to happen as much as you thanking Bush, McCain and military personnel for your safety and freedom.

Of course it is as likely to happen as much as you thanking Bush, McCain and military personnel for your safety and freedom.

#31 | Posted by Ozark_Sunshine at 2008-09-29 03:28 PM

My personal safety and freedom are less then they were 8 years ago.

What exactly am I thanking them for again?

"NoGov4Me you must be asleep at the helm because not only did an Iraqi General testify that they moved the chemical and biological weapons to Iran under the cover of earthquake aid, but this year they uncovered and removed over 500 tons of yellow cake uranium from Iraq."

I'd like a link to the story about the 500 tons of yellow cake uranium. There was 500 tons discovered......right after the Persian Gulf WAr and that was shipped to Russia where it was treated so that it is not a threat but I've done several searches and there are no reputable (or otherwise) stories about another 500 tons.
I'm sure you wouldn't make shit up so I'll expect a link.

......Ozark Sunshine......

......it's better to keep silent and be thought a fool.....

......than to open your mouth and remove all doubt......

How about all you liberals carrying your puny butts over to the middle east and blog and protest the way you do here. See how long you stay alive. Of course it is as likely to happen as much as you thanking Bush, McCain and military personnel for your safety and freedom.

#31 | Posted by Ozark_Sunshine at 2008-09-29 03:28 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

You can't be serious....

surely as stupid as the above statement is this is a spoof...

McCain pulled 10 hours of military flight time during which time he crashed three planes and killed 26 Navy men in the worst self inflicted Aircraft Carrier Accident in the history of the Navy. His third crash put him in Viet Cong hands where he revealed anything and everything in order to gain favor with the enemy.

Shrub's daddy pushed Shrub to the front of the Air Guard line as a pilot. As soon as The Air Guard imposed mandatory drug testing on all their pilots Shrub left the unit. Anyone else that failed to show up for Reserve duty was shipped to Vietnam, but since it was Shrub they just destroyed his records and let him go without finishing his service obligation.

Multiple domestic terrorists incidents have occured, by Moslems, mostly acting alone such as Malvo and Mohamad, the machine inning of an ElAlticket counter at LAX, killing five people in Trolley Square Salt Lake City. But these attacks pale in comparison to the hundreds of attacks and rise of alQaida Internationally. Frankly, the surge is just a PR stunt.

Neither of these clowns have done anything to insure our safety or freedom.