Murtha's been oddly silent these past months. When was the last time we saw/heard him? I don't doubt for a moment he's been "encouraged" to chill while Obama's trying to get elected.

Just because they got off doesn't mean they were innocent. OJ Simpson got off too and we all know He did it.

Larry

I sense another Fred Phelps argument forming, LAR. These Marines were found not-guilty... and the one is suing Murtha for punitive damages what Murtha said (slander).

If you'll recall, OJ was found not-guilty in the criminal suit (murder) BUT he did lose the civil case.

Murtha's words - publicly implicating these Marines who later were found not guilty - carry consequences.

Freedom of speech DOES have limitations.

Nope not a Fred Phelps argument but it applies here as well. Murtha had the information that He had He believed in what He said was true He knew the score. Just because the Military found these Marines Not Guilty does not mean they were innocent.

Larry

If that's the case, LAR, then what would you define as slander? Does it exist in your view? Ever? If so, when?

As to whether you (sitting at home in Kansas) are in position to credibly ascertain the Marines' guilt or innocence is something you can determine for yourself. Apparently you are, even to the point of overturning the legal decision.

In the eyes of the law they are deemed not-guilty (and innocent till proven guilty). I agree that that doesn't necessarily mean they are totally innocent, but the fact they won the case casts a much different light on Murtha's comments. Further, are you so jaded that you summarily discount legal decisions based on which party stands to gain/lose standing? Yikes!

Like I have said to You before I do not trust this Military leadership under Dubya. No way no how. That is how bad Dubya has fucked this Country up. As far as Murtha and the slander charge how can someone slander someone else when stating their belief in something??

Larry

As far as Murtha and the slander charge how can "someone slander someone else when stating their belief in something??" - LAR

The Marine that is suing Murtha isn't a Private Citizen. He is property of the US Government and therefore under the Control of Congress and the Executive Branch. BTW the Fred Phelps verdict will be overturned upon appeal just FYI

Larry

American soldierS, he contended, had killed innocent civilians "in cold blood."

While Geary acknowledged that the congressman Never Mentioned his client by Name,

Frivolous Lawsuit Next case.......

Here's an example of slander, LAR.

Let's say you operate a business.

The mayor doesn't like you and/or doesn't think you run an ethical business.

When the press indicates you're being charged with tax evasion, the mayor goes on the local TV station to say Larry's a scam artist who takes advantage of feeble minded Republicans and old ladies. He's a cheat and a no good scoundrel.

To add to this, I'm taken to court and win.

And you're telling me you should have no recourse against the mayor? Seriously? Your business reputation's been harmed... not unlike this Marine's charge that his reputation's been harmed.

"The Marine that is suing Murtha isn't a Private Citizen. He is property of the US Government and therefore under the Control of Congress and the Executive Branch." - LAR

Perhaps that will be part of Murtha's defense. So does he really want to make the argument he was trying to impugn the entire US military and not just this tiny group?

The Marine is not "property" in the sense of ownership of, say, a vehicle or bike. The Marine has civil rights, etc. Those aren't tossed away because he's a jar head.

No, Murtha chose to single out a small group of Marines over a specific incident. He was very public about their guilt. The "damage" had been done prior to their day in court.

Now that the one was found not guilty, does he not have any recourse when he feels his reputation's been damaged by such a high ranking pol?

Was Richard Jewel a Soldier/Marine when He was slandered or was He a Private Citizen??

Larry

Oh and OohRah pray tell why if a Serviceman isn't property did they issue serial numbers to DogTags when My Father was in the Military?? Isn't that why they state GI's hence GOVERNMENT ISSUE?? Don't You when You are sworn into the Military become a servant of the Country?? If this is so aren't servants the slave of the owner??

Larry

With all due respect, LAR, I believe you are confusing a "public" official & "public figure" with someone who works in the "public" sector.

They aren't necessarily synonymous. Murtha is a public official and public figure who works in the public sector. LeBron James is a public figure... so is Katie Couric. They work in the private sector, yet their burden of proof in slander is much higher than it would be for you or me as nobodies.

Someone working for the federal government works in the public sector, say, in for the IRS. That doesn't make them a public figure (even though we've all heard of the IRS) unless maybe they win American Idol or something like that.

"If this is so aren't servants the slave of the owner??" - LAR

Are you sure you want to continue this debate? "Property" in a legal sense has no civil rights.

Our son Bob is property of the Marines and has said so. Yet he doesn't forfeit his civil rights simply because he's employed by the fed govt. Does simply working for the government disqualify you from legally pursuing offending parties? Of course not... Marines and other branches have members who sue any number of entities either in or outside the military.

Yes, just like with cops Bob is a public "servant." Again, I think you're confusing the meaning of terms... this time "servant" "slave".

You obviously don't have a clue OohRah. A person in the Military IS the Property of the US Government. They are not just mere Governmental Employees they are in fact a piece of Property to be used to facilitate Policy. How hard is that to grasp OohRah???

Larry

"Was Richard Jewel a Soldier/Marine when He was slandered or was He a Private Citizen??" - LAR

Huh?

He was a private citizen who quickly became a public figure as he was thrust in the limelight (Atlanta bombings). First, he was a hero... but then that turned to possible criminal.

Read that link I'd provided. He had numerous lawsuits once Rudolph came to light. Jewell's reputation had been damaged by high profile accusations.

Frankly, Murtha used that Marine incident to bolster his contention we ought not be there in the first place. It was easy, convenient, to use those Marines as scapegoats for a larger ill - our nation's involvement in Iraq.

Certainly a challenge for the Marine is to demonstrate how Murtha's false accusations have damaged him. I think that, and perhaps the fact Murtha didn't mention him by name, are the two primary factors in play.

Oh and Servant=Slave

How is what Murtha said a false accusation?? Just because the Marines got off does not mean they were innocent IE OJ Simpson ring any bells?? He got off but You can't tell Me He was innocent can You OohRah??

Larry

LAR-
Go back to the Phelps funeral protesting issue. Phelps is free to stand on the corner or protest against the larger entity (the government or the military).

Where Phelps got into trouble was in going after an individual (funeral). While Phelps' speech didn't harm the dead guy's reputation, it did cause other issues with those in attendance and that's why he lost.

Murtha wasn't just bashing the overall military. He singled out a small group of Marines for a very specific incident. Quite high profile. Those Marines were found not guilty. Surely they have the legal right to recourse, don't they?

First of all the Fred Phelps thing. He was doing everything right and should not have been sued. He was upon Public Property protesting at that Marines Funeral. It was distateful but He was within His rights to be distatesful. The Jury verdict Will and must be overturned. If it isn't then the First Amendment doesn't mean squat. Secondly the Marine that is suing Murtha should not win because Murtha was stating His belief in the information at hand. You may not like it OohRah but Murtha had every right to say what He did.

Larry

"How is what Murtha said a false accusation?? Just because the Marines got off does not mean they were innocent IE OJ Simpson ring any bells?? He got off but You can't tell Me He was innocent can You OohRah??" - LAR

Sadly we've come full circle my friend.

In the eyes of the law they are not guilty, though maybe not in the legal mind of LARRYMOHR.

Murtha, a very high profile public figure, made some very damning accusations of guilt against a specific small group of Marines over a very specific incident.

Over time they were found not guilty.

If it makes you feel more secure in your world, you can cling to the contention these Marines were guilty. However, in the real world, they aren't guilty as determined by our legal system. You simply can't live in an alternate legal universe.

Further, while we agree OJ did it... in the eyes of our system he is not guilty of criminal charges.

Did you know OJ lost Goldman's civil suit? You never acknowledged that earlier. The threshold for proof is lower in civil cases, which is what the Marine is pursuing.

"You may not like it OohRah but Murtha had every right to say what He did." - LAR

As with Phelps, he has the ability to say it... but in doing so he opens himself up for legal issues.

Of course I dislike what Murtha said. What's key here is that he wasn't simply bloviating against public figures (Bush, Cheney) or large entities like the US military.

No, he singled out people for a specific incident.

And, as with Phelps, when the bashing moves from the larger entities/public figures to the definable small group or individual, then that's a different scenario.

There's no guarantee the Marine will win. But to summarily dismiss either his ability to bring suit or to cling to Murtha's veracity is misguided in my view.

LAR-
What's your take on Murtha's disappearance these past months? Is he in the witness protection program or something?

Where is Murtha?? Probably doing His peoples work.

Larry

You can do better than that, LAR.

He's a loose cannon who has been muzzled. Besides, the military he railed against all those months has brought about some good stuff.

Frankly, I'd love to see him front and center - and loud.

I may be wrong, but I seem to recall something about him possibly having a tougher than normal re-election. Does anyone on the DR living around there have a sense for that?

#6 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2008-09-27 08:00 AM

As far as Murtha and the slander charge how can someone slander someone else when stating their belief in something??

I'd prefer that Rep. Murtha be tarred and feathere, but since we pretend to be civilized, taking away his gains garnered from his long history political activities, will need to provide redress. As the Germans say, "Revenge is sweeter when savored cold." The heat of the moment passes, and then a person is left to deal with the residue of problems that he created. They can jerk him around a bit more with interrogatories.

For a seasoned politician, Murtha certainly cut away from protocol, and compromised himself by continuing to shoot his mouth off as he was lionized by the media. I suppose that he thought his position would provide him with traction. Even Congressman Earmarks couldn't guess right every time.

Ok, I'll give RCADE credit for putting this story in the front page.

Yeah maybe he's getting tired of ten Palin posts at one time!

I wish (in this case) that it were not so, however:

When a person (like Murtha) speaks from the floor
of congress, he can say anything he wants
without consequences.

It's part of the constitution.
This Marine has no civil/legal case.
Sad but true.

ALL accused were found 'not guilty'.
That has weight, in my book.

Murtha jumped on this story and ran with it.
What a dick.

"The threshold for slander for people like you and me against public officials is higher. Public officials are much more open game, but not the other way around, which is what's going on with Murtha."
#7 | Posted by OohRah

You are 100% correct however Obama and his campaign does not agree with the law:

Murtha needs to catch some of Teddy kennedy's brain tumor and maybe they can check out together and be met by some of their former friends, like Mary Jo and a lot of the really Honorable Men that went before these two pieces of scum

This lawsuit will go nowhere.

This marine knows in his heart of hearts that his ass was saved by a governmental whitewash.

Haditha was a massacre.

Deal with it.

Be Well.

You are 100% correct however Obama and his campaign does not agree with the law:

You are 100% incorrect.

Obama wants the laws on slander and libel to be obeyed and the Rtards are bitching about it.

Matt Blunt is an evil, corrupt bastard, btw.

(In Spud's rarely humble opinion)

In case you hadn't heard.

Thank the FSM the bastard aint running fer re-election.

Be Well.

This marine knows in his heart of hearts that his ass was saved by a governmental whitewash.

Haditha was a massacre.

But an open trial, with sworn witnesses, publically available evidence and no Pentagon cover-up team will surely prove the Iraqis took their own lives.

Scoots...

Wow...for such a 'tough' Marine, he sure is a sniveling bitch.

24 dead unarmed Iraqi civilians are dead and nobody is guilty.

People calling themselves "conservatives" attack anyone who questions this state of affairs.

Welcome to 21st Century America.

Just because they got off doesn't mean they were innocent. OJ Simpson got off too and we all know He did it.

Larry

#2 | Posted by LarryMohr

Nope! Murtha made a generalized comment about the military and he is going to pay for it!

Too bad for your military-hating attitude, Larry.

Wow...for such a 'tough' Marine, he sure is a sniveling bitch.

#38 | Posted by COMMONSENSE

LOL!!!

I would love to see you and this sniveling bitch locked in a room together with no weapons! You would probably lose control of your bowel. Saying things like that anonymously on an internet blog is cowardly, don't you think?

These marines got away with murder an the Bush Administration help to cover up this CRIME. The Military in freeing these men did the job of the Administration, It just wouldn't look good if we were to put these men in jail for MURDER......The American Justice System is a farce an the Military Justice is just as bad, the Foxes gaurding the henhouse, The whole World is watching an nobody is buying this crap!!!!!!!!

I agree! There should be someone going to jail over this!

Does that mean that this Marine is guilty? Not really.

This thread is about Murtha's irresponsible comments! He's a Marine and should watch his mouth. All Murtha has to do is say that he mis-spoke. What an ass!

Oh and Servant=Slave

#19 | Posted by LarryMohr
------------------------
Ohhh, so why don't you go tell your congressman he's your slave? Hell, go tell Obama he's your slave and see how that works for you. How idiotic of you?

A military soldier is not property. I guess that's why you lefties hate soldiers is because you think that a soldier is your slave. Thanks for clarifying your idiotic beliefs Larry!

Lonnie

Where is Murtha?? Probably doing His peoples work.

Larry

#27 | Posted by LarryMohr
-------------------------
Yeah and pigs fly don't they Larry? Sadly, he's in the comforts of his office trying to figure out how he can get his pork projects funded. After all he's the Porker of the year 2007.

Lonnie

This thread is about Murtha's irresponsible comments! He's a Marine and should watch his mouth. All Murtha has to do is say that he mis-spoke. What an ass!

#43 | Posted by Eddi
====================
Murtha should have stayed neutral until the courts had made a decision. He should have said these men are innocent until proven guilty. Instead, he tried to justify his looney leftist ideal's while denying the marines their innocent until proven guilty rights.

Lonnie

Now that I've given it some thought, I guess that is why the liberals don't want military personnel to be able to vote because they are property instead of individuals with rights. How pathetic!

Lonnie

What's in dispute with this case is whether Murtha can publicly and verbally impugn a private citizen... albeit indirectly since Murtha never mentioned him by name.

#7 | Posted by OohRah

No name no slander..

frivolous law suit..will be dismissed

What's in dispute with this case is whether Murtha can publicly and verbally impugn a private citizen... albeit indirectly since Murtha never mentioned him by name.

#7 | Posted by OohRah

No name no slander..

frivolous law suit..will be dismissed

Legio,

Obviously the judge saw matters just a little bit different than you when he turned down Murtha's plea to dismiss the case.

They say PRIDE comes BEFORE the fall and this is a good case of it. All Murtha really had to do was issue a public apology and say that the marines were entitled to due process and he violated their rights and attempted to act as judge and jury and convict them based on his limited knowledge of the facts. Instead he chose to further the liberal looney left's talking points instead of admitting he was wrong. Even if the suit is dismissed, Murtha still comes out of this looking like an uneducated idiot! Then again, most of us already have that impression of him anyway when he tried to fight and bully others over his unethical earmarks.

Lonnie

This just takes the "Cheap Shot" Tortures and Murders perpetrated in Iraq by the US Military on innocent people,one step further! Neither the Bush Govt nor the US Military is going to find anybody in the US Military (or any U.S.civilian contractors there) "Guilty" of any of the numberless sick and cowardly atrocities they've committed in Iraq on inocent people.

This is the real reason why Murtha is being "sued" because its another fucking "Cheap Shop" launched to reap some easy "Ca$h" because the people launching the suit know that the U.S.courts are not going to indict any Americans for any of their murderous atrocities in Iraq!!!

***Incidentially is this US Marine a Zionist by any chance???

The American Justice System is a farce

#42 | Posted by celisary
-------------------------
Finally something I can actually agree with celisary on but then again, my context does not follow the story. It's a sad day when a burgler can sue the homeowner if he get's hurt while trying to break into the homeowners home. When illegal combatants are given US citizen rights, etc. You get the picture.

Lonnie

This just takes the "Cheap Shot" Tortures and Murders perpetrated in Iraq by the US Military on innocent people,one step further! Neither the Bush Govt nor the US Military is going to find anybody in the US Military (or any U.S.civilian contractors there) "Guilty" of any of the numberless sick and cowardly atrocities they've committed in Iraq on inocent people.

Posted by AntiCadillac
-------------------------
Yeah yeah, another liberal nutcase talking about something they don't have any clue about. Ever wonder why Al Quaeda starts fire fights in residential areas or markets? Obviously, your small mind can't calculate such things as you've probably never been outside the country in a hostile environment nor have you taken the time to think about it.

The reason they do it is so that liberal nutcases can play armchair attorney, judge, juror, and executioner. Really, you have to understand that when you have these thugs firing on you the ONLY thing you can do is return fire. Yes innocent people die as a result of Al Quaeda's tactics but that's their master plan. They know liberals will side against the military because most have no clue what war really means. If I'm being fired at from a house, do you think I'm going to wait to see if anyone else is in there against their will and get shot in the process? I'm going to chuck a grenade in there to send them to Allah on the express line. This is the case and point! It's very easy for nutcases like yourself to be judgemental because your not getting shot at. You people are so gullable, you'll believe any lie John Murtha will tell you. What's worse is, you'll repeat the lie. That takes absolutely no brains whatsoever.

Obviously, you people are so ready to cry foul that common sense eludes you in pursuit of making your points. The only thing you have seen about this case is the results of lawyers coaching these people to talk english and say what the lawyers want them to say to make THEIR point. Obviously there is another side to this story which you will not accept because you hate soldiers to begin with. Anything these fine men and women have to say is unbelievable in your eyes. The line about a white house coverup is just as stupid. Did they cover up other inproprieties that happened in Iraq? Absolutely not, they went after people and prosecuted them for doing the wrong thing.

Lonnie

Neither the Bush Govt nor the US Military is going to find anybody in the US Military (or any U.S.civilian contractors there) "Guilty" of any of the numberless sick and cowardly atrocities they've committed in Iraq on inocent people.

~AntiCadillac

Pretty much.

Ever wonder why Al Quaeda starts fire fights in residential areas or markets?

~Loonie

Umm, perhaps cos the insurgency is a guerrilla war.

Well, that plus the fact that all their attack helicopters, tanks, depleted uranium munitions are out being repaired.

Did they cover up other inproprieties that happened in Iraq? Absolutely not, they went after people and prosecuted them for doing the wrong thing.

Yes, the "few bad apples" who were totally responsible fer the torture at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere were prosecuted but anybody with an ounce of intellectual honesty knows that they were scapegoats fer the BushCo administration.

Iraq has been turned into a consequence free-zone fer the troops and especially fer the corporate mercenaries.

You are clearly a moron who's understanding of this war is based purely on lies and right wing soundbites.

Yer pathetic.

America has the same right to be in Baghdad that Hitler had to be in Paris.

Which is to say... NONE.

Be Well.

LWALK17, you are a frigging lunatic! I am sure you also think that Bush was in on the 9/11 attack too--right? Why don't you and your left wing nutcase friends move to Iran or some place like it! I do not care where, just as long as it is outside of the US. Also, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!

By the way, I hope Murtha loses and ends up living in a tent under a bridge!

PS: "Totally responsible fer the torture" was, of course, pure snarkasm.

Reasonable people would know this at first glance but in yer case Spud thought he'd better spell it out fer ya.

Be Well.

Sorry--I addressed the above to the wrong guy--I meant AntiCadillac. I apologize to LWALK17.

LWALK17, you are a frigging lunatic!

Sorry--I addressed the above to the wrong guy

Naw, you had it right the first time.

Be Well.

The absolutely "Gutless" US Military "Torturers and Murderers" who preyed on innocent and defenseless Iraqis are now trying to SLEAZE money out of the US citizens for the heinous atrocities the committed in Iraq! They're Cowardly Murdering Slime-Balls right down the line!!!

Anticadillac-
You are scum.

You are clearly a moron who's understanding of this war is based purely on lies and right wing soundbites.

Be Well.

#54 | Posted by dethspud
------------------------
Actually no dethspud, I'm a retired veteran of the armed forces. Obviously, your used to people with no experience like yourself speaking out on this subject.

Lonnie

The absolutely "Gutless" US Military "Torturers and Murderers" who preyed on innocent and defenseless Iraqis are now trying to SLEAZE money out of the US citizens for the heinous atrocities the committed in Iraq! They're Cowardly Murdering Slime-Balls right down the line!!!

#59 | Posted by AntiCadillac
-----------------------------
Clearly you need some serious couch time with padded walls. You have some serious issues. You can't prove one damn thing AntiCadillac. Those marines have been acquitted in a courtsmarshall proceeding. Like I said before, your knowledge of the case was based on what the prosecutors/liberal media wanted you to believe. That doesn't make you sound intelligent, it makes you look like a sucker. I guess your accustomed to getting half of the story and making judgement.

Lonnie

Sorry--I addressed the above to the wrong guy--I meant AntiCadillac. I apologize to LWALK17.

#57 | Posted by dougluvsgolf

--------------------------
Accepted.

Lonnie

Ever wonder why Al Quaeda starts fire fights in residential areas or markets?

~Loonie (A little less alcohol/drugs and you may figure out this isn't my name)

Umm, perhaps cos the insurgency is a guerrilla war.

Well, that plus the fact that all their attack helicopters, tanks, depleted uranium munitions are out being repaired.
----------------
Actually they start the firefights in residential and market areas to turn the locals against us and the people in the US but thanks for playing anyways. Looking at anti-cadillac's rants, I guess it works like a charm because he's a sucker.

Cute, but we both know they don't have any of these things. Al Quaeda doesn't have the money for those things.

Lonnie

LWALK17, you are a frigging lunatic!

Sorry--I addressed the above to the wrong guy

Naw, you had it right the first time.

Be Well.

#58 | Posted by dethspud
---------------------
I've accepted doug's apology because he mispoke. You lefties see how easy that was to apologize when your wrong? Doug has class and integrity unlike Senator John Murtha.

It's apparent to me that liberals feel like obscene language, gestures, and name calling helps them get their point across because they lack both command of the English language and social skills.

Lonnie

"It's apparent to me that liberals feel like obscene language, gestures, and name calling helps them get their point across because they lack both command of the English language and social skills.
Lonnie
#65 | Posted by lwalk17 at 2008-09-29 07:27 AM"

Surely this is meant as a parody.
Then again, perhaps not.
Ah, what the hell, I'm giving it a FF anyway.

You can give it whatever you want Doc. If you look at Deathspud's answer to me, he called me Looney instead of Lonnie so I guess that would be FF back at ya.

Lonnie

You're evidently experiencing some sort of problem with processing in the area of reading comprehension, Lonnie. In addressing Spud you went on about how "It's apparent to me that liberals feel like. . ." That's not just Spud, that's "liberals." In fact, that's not the case. And either you don't know that or you misspoke. Which is it?

Murtha has a QRF of lawyers currently stationed in France to help him with the case here in the states.

The suit against Murtha is a stunt.

Murtha will pay one way or another. He's going to regret saying that(if he already hasn't).

Hey Larry - have you ever had the courage to put on the uniform and serve your country? I bet not. If so were you a combat vet or a desk jockey. You are so ignorant. These men were not guilty and found so. I dare you to say it to the faces of those who were on trial. But of course you are a typical liberal coward who hides behind anonymous postings because you know if you said it in person you'd get your clock cleaned. This is one former Army Ranger that is tired of your liberal lies and rants with absolutely nothing to back them up. Of course cowards of you ilk never lets the truth get in your way. Be careful of what you say and to whom Larry, you never know who's watching.

Doc,

Well, to be honest, I've been looking at drudge for a while and I've seen some of the nastiest comments I've ever seen on here. Especially on the link where liberals basked in the fact that Tony Snow passed away. That was a disgusting bunch of messages. There was comments so vile, I'd never repeat them and would hope that no kids saw them.

So I wasn't just speaking of One person but the majority in here. By not saying a word to the other disgusting posters, your kind of approving that behaviour. Obviously, I've been called worse than Looney on Drudge.

In all fairness not all liberals were taking part in the disgusting rants about Tony Snow but there are a lot of names being called on here, like that is going to change someone's opinion. My comment was a general one though based on everything I've seen on here. If I had a chance to reword it, I'd probably choose Hard leftists instead of liberals. Is that better?

Lonnie