HA!

Economists hope

Says it all.

rcade, how bout some anti-obama threads instaead of all anti-McCain threads? Freaking libs.

For a couple weeks.

How is this anti-McCain?

Or maybe you instinctively know he bears some responsibility.

And continuing to make them unaffordable to the average American...

Or you could start one yourself.

But then maybe no one would post on it.

If you are a home owner pay close attention to
your property taxes. State and local Gov's need
severe restraints put upon them, IE quit your
spending glut.

Your prop tax bite should be lower now. Here, it's a simple thing to get the bill lowered.

And continuing to make them unaffordable to the average American...

#6 | Posted by dibblda

Maybe if the average American had paid their fucking mortgage payment, we wouldn't have this mess. And by average, I mean the average assholes who couldn't get a conventional loan and went subprime.

The falling house prices is due to people not being able to afford them.

I find it interesting that the republican administration doesn't want to allow judges to rewrite the loans so those people can keep their homes and not be foreclosed upon.

Clearly just trying for the land grab.

"Maybe if the average American had paid their fucking mortgage payment, we wouldn't have this mess. And by average, I mean the average assholes who couldn't get a conventional loan and went subprime."

And what about the idiots who gave these loans in the first place? "Can't afford to pay back this loan? No problem. At least it won't be my problem, I'm gonna sell it."

Greed, greed, greed.

I find it interesting that the republican administration doesn't want to allow judges to rewrite the loans so those people can keep their homes and not be foreclosed upon.

Posted by moneywar

How in the world would you look at every mortgage to determine if it needs goverment intervention? Stick to what you know...WalMart home furnishings.

"The falling house prices is due to people not being able to afford them."

Property values are falling because they are inflated. Is this so fucking complicated?

"I find it interesting that the republican administration doesn't want to allow judges to rewrite the loans so those people can keep their homes and not be foreclosed upon."

Judges rewriting loans? What makes Judges qualified to do that?

Moss,

You don't get it, the fault clearly lies 100% with the schlub who was trying to get in on the American dream.

Not with the mortgage broker who was gonna "earn" 1 or 2% of the mortgage amount.

It's not the brokers fault if the customer trusted what he was saying.

How in the world would you look at every mortgage to determine if it needs goverment intervention?

Sorry, but I would not look at any, walmart doesn't carry that kind of responsibility, but I guess your neoliberal republican education has limits to teaching its students understanding.

"Can't afford to pay back this loan? No problem. At least it won't be my problem, I'm gonna sell it."

You say that sarcastically, as if it's just an abomination that a lender would reserve the right to foreclose on a loan when someone doesn't pay their mortgage.

If you don't want the bank to take your house when you default, then don't sign a contract that says "the bank can take my house when I default." Nobody twisted anyone's arm and said they had to buy a house. Nobody told them they couldn't put up collateral other than their own house - or that if they had no other collateral, that they had to take out the loan anyways.

My education? A freaking 5 year old would be able to analyize you as a free loader after 2 days of reading your DR posts.

Property values are falling because they are inflated. Is this so fucking complicated?

Wow! Why don't you rephrase every one of my posts, you're good at it and apparently you find it easy.

Ted

Got the irony. However, it is unfortunate that many people who got the loans didn't care enough to take the time to get educated about what they were getting into.

In other words, there is plenty of blame to go around.

Property values are falling because they are inflated. Is this so fucking complicated?

Posted by Mossadegh

And the real blame lies with the municipalities that over assessed properties to increase taxes.

The bailout MAY NOT stop the drop in real estate values. Let the market play itself out.

Here we sit with the neoliberal republicans defending as normal but still miss the entire understanding of what the economy is all about.

The economy for the people or the people for the economy.

"You say that sarcastically, as if it's just an abomination that a lender would reserve the right to foreclose on a loan when someone doesn't pay their mortgage."

Not what I meant. These loans were made by people who didn't practice good banking procedures. If you make a loan you want to be sure the person can pay it back. But if you turn around and sell the loan to a third party, you no longer care if the person can pay it back.

However, it is unfortunate that many people who got the loans didn't care enough to take the time to get educated about what they were getting into.

Maybe the quest for the American dream holds more desires then orginal thought and these pred-loans was a way these people thought they could achieve the dream.

"And the real blame lies with the municipalities that over assessed properties to increase taxes."

Huh?

"Maybe the quest for the American dream holds more desires then orginal thought and these pred-loans was a way these people thought they could achieve the dream."

Something for free, in other words?

Huh?

#26 | Posted by Mossadegh

My property fair market value is 220K and that's what my local taxes are based on. I couldn't sell it for 170K 2 years ago. Did they make more or less by inflating the value?

My property fair market value is 220K and that's what my local taxes are based on. I couldn't sell it for 170K 2 years ago. Did they make more or less by inflating the value?

What do local assessment practices have to do with the price you can sell your house for?

Something for free, in other words?

The wisdom of understanding just eludes you.

Come back when you get a better grasp of how INTEREST and EQUATY work and then you will understand who wanted something for free.

What do local assessment practices have to do with the price you can sell your house for?

#29 | Posted by Mossadegh

My point is that it effects the overall market, and was in response to $wars post regarding judges looking at re-writing loans on the goverments behalf.

And by average, I mean the average assholes who couldn't get a conventional loan and went subprime.

#10 | Posted by wisgod

And all those brokers who inflated prices to up their commissions, sold multiple houses to unemployed drug dealers or performed flips on condos in Florida, selling them to non-existent people? Everybody was going Las Vegas on housing prices, hoping to make some money on higher valued piece of property down the road.
Nothing to do with greed. The mortgage industry was selling houses like snake oil.

NG3, I agree with you, but you can't tell me these same people couldn't do some simple math and figure out that if 50% or better of their income was going towards their mortgage payment, they wouldn't be fucked?

My property fair market value is 220K and that's what my local taxes are based on. I couldn't sell it for 170K 2 years ago.

You appeal? What did you pay/insure it for?

What did you pay/insure it for?

Posted by northguy3

I payed $50K 18 years ago. I insure it for it's cuurent fair market value with a 100% replacement policy to cover my ass. I've tried to appeal with the local assessor. They just look at comparable properties. That's why I blame my situation on my local goverment.

What do local assessment practices have to do with the price you can sell your house for?

#29 | Posted by Mossadegh

"My point is that it effects the overall market"

Really? How?

Really? How?

#36 | Posted by Mossadegh

Try www.economics101.com

In other words, there is plenty of blame to go around.

#20 | Posted by Mossadegh

Exactly right.

I know several otherwise sophisticated people who are stuck with these loans now, and their entire life is consumed with meeting their housing obligations. It's a very fragile existence, one hiccup and they're in real trouble.

Wis

It sucks that your local assessor isn't reasonable. Here, you could appeal and win simply by providing your own comps.

I would guess you home's true value is more like 150-160 in today's market. That's what your taxes should be based on.

I would guess you home's true value is more like 150-160 in today's market. That's what your taxes should be based on.

#39 | Posted by TedBaxter

I'd agree. What State are you from?

That evil, leftist Republic south of Oregon.

That evil, leftist Republic south of Oregon.

#41 | Posted by TedBaxter

Geez, And I thought I had problems....:)

Make more, spend more.... The American way.

Have credit.... Max it and pay the minimum.

This is economic suicide. This is the new virus that stupid loan officers created.

People used to be proud of the rising appraisal price of their house. I would always say that I was sorry to hear that because their real estate taxes would be going up and if they sold their house they would find that a replacement would have gone up by an equivalent amount. What advantage is that?

Now that prices are going down it should be advantageous to the homeowner because his taxes should go down and if he has to sell his house at a depressed level, the one he buys should be equivalently depressed.

Are you listening class?

#44 | Posted by fwthom

Well, jaw fucking hit the floor.

FW actually spoke some sense.

Early '90s, last BIG downturn, some neighbors sold their house at 150G loss, bought one about 250 below market, happy as clams ever since.

Now that prices are going down it should be advantageous to the homeowner because his taxes should go down and if he has to sell his house at a depressed level, the one he buys should be equivalently depressed.

Sure, except for the little problem the entire Bush economy was financed by home equity loan debt spending. So with the drop in home prices, a bunch of people are finding that they can't afford to sell.

Now that's their own damn fault for spending themselves into debt. But if everyone hadn't gone shopping like Bush said, the economy would have simply collapsed earlier.

The rising home prices and debt spending let America pretend we were still a rich nation. Now with the equity all spent and our industrial base outsourced, it's going to be a rough next few years.

Ted,

Thanks for listening. I could teach you everything you need to know to be successful. However, you have to forget everything that you have already learned.

FW

If you need a loan, just say so. Don't be trying to sell me your timeshare.

I told you it was a foolish purchase.

How funny is this.

Cheney goes to the House today to talk reps into supporting the Paulson Welfare Act.

They told him to go fuck himself.

NORM,

Those fools that spent all the equity in their homes shoud move out into a cardboard box under a bridge. I learned everything about housing by playing monopoly as a child. I am prepared to buy some cheap houses now that these numbskulls are bankrupt. I'll own Park Place and Boardwalk and your buddies can go to jail without passing Go.

I've been watching these assholes on CSPAN, including Paulson, the Fed Chief and the Senate comittee they are testifying before.

IT'S TIME TO PANIC DR POSTERS. THESE GUYS ARE SCARED AND DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO. 62 TRILLION DOLLARS IN WORTHLESS ASSETS ON THE LINE. SELL YOUR STOCKS! GET YOUR MUTUAL FUNDS IN CASH. STOCK UP ON FOOD AND WATER. THIS IS GOING TO MAKE 1929 LOOK LIKE A PICNIC!

Now that the collapse has occurred, the roadblock built by Senate Democrats in 2005 is unforgivable. Many who opposed the bill doubtlessly did so for honorable reasons. Fannie and Freddie provided mounds of materials defending their practices. Perhaps some found their propaganda convincing.

But we now know that many of the senators who protected Fannie and Freddie, including Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and Christopher Dodd, have received mind-boggling levels of financial support from them over the years.

Throughout his political career, Obama has gotten more than $125,000 in campaign contributions from employees and political action committees of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, second only to Dodd, the Senate Banking Committee chairman, who received more than $165,000.

Clinton, the 12th-ranked recipient of Fannie and Freddie PAC and employee contributions, has received more than $75,000 from the two enterprises and their employees. The private profit found its way back to the senators who killed the fix.

There has been a lot of talk about who is to blame for this crisis. A look back at the story of 2005 makes the answer pretty clear.

Oh, and there is one little footnote to the story that's worth keeping in mind while Democrats point fingers between now and Nov. 4: Senator John McCain was one of the three cosponsors of S.190, the bill that would have averted this mess.

The total income and total mortgages don't add up to anything sustainable. But the Banks and Wall Street don't care. Soon they will own everything through the magic of compound interest.

But first they need to con this country into picking up the tab for underwriting trillions in bad loans. Huge fees were collected for mortgage insurance policies with no capital to back it up.

Bernanke and Paulson are selling a bag of shit to a bunch of compromised politicians. Wiretapping always works wonders with pigs at the trough.

The value of Real Estate has been artificially inflated through a variety of mechanisms. Banks are sucking more value out of the economy than extraction, manufacturing or Government. But they want more. Pumping $700 billion (as if that's all it will be) will keep this mirage alive long enough for the master crooks to leave town. But as soon as they've left with the $700 billion the problem will resurface.

These incompetent crooks wasted $11 trillion at Fanny & Freddy, $2-3 trillion in Iraq, outsourced our manufacturing base, undermined social security, ruined our military especially the National Guard and Reserves, lost their phoney war on terror, and repealed 30's legislation.

Why should we trust these crooks with another $700 billion that will only shift a drop dead date by 6-12 months. All they're going to do is take the money and run. Paulson's pals at Goldman-Sachs have already left the investment banking business.

But then the simple truth that there isn't enough income to support the total debt will return and the $700 billion will be gone, including the inventors of this latest scam. The value of Real Estate must come down, its just a matter of when.

Penny Pritzker is hosting a reception at the Grand Hyatt in New York(she is an heir to the Hyatt empire) for Ackmiediwhackjob of Iran.

Who is Penny Pritzker? Obama's campaign finance chair. As an owner and board chair of Superior, Penny Pritzker also was named in a RICO class action suit on behalf of the more than 1,400 depositors at Superior, who initially lost over $50 million of their life savings.

"This is a story of two Americas with two sets of laws, one for the rich and powerful and another for the rest of us," said Clint Krislov, the depositors' attorney, in a recent interview. "My clients will all be dead, before they get back their money, given the Supreme Court's recent decision to uphold the lower court, which put the predatory owners on the front of the line, if any money is recovered."

The Pritzkers arrayed a powerful and well-connected legal team including former President Bill Clinton's impeachment lawyer Lanny Davis, two ex-comptrollers of the currency, and two former General Counsels to the FDIC, the American Banker Magazine reported.

Given the political sensitivity of the sub-prime mortgage crisis, Anderson said he believes Penny Pritzker should resign her post as Obama's Finance Chair, the person who oversees the campaign's fundraising.

Try www.economics101.com

#37 | Posted by wisgod at 2008-09-23 08:51 PM

If you don't know, just say so. It's OK.

Face it, many from both parties in Congress are probably involved in this subprime mess and fraud due to the quasi-political nature of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Many in Congress were given very generous campaign donations by the head honchos in both those lending institutions and ending up turning a blind eye to the corruption instead of stopping it.

I think you'll see a lot more foreclosures as more people with subprime loans have their mortgage rates pushed up when they hit certain dates as per the terms of their loan .

It's not over yet unless Congress is able to pass a law the mortgage companies who made the subprime loans must allow them to be redone with better terms for the borrower or the mortgage companies will not be eligible for a bailout.

Now Congress is talking about the $700 billion bailout to also include the homeowners who got these subprime loans. How come I have to pay my mortgage payments faithfully every month and had to take a loan at a slightly higher percentage rate in order to get a fixed rate loan but these subprime borrowers went in on low percentage teaser rates with no down payment and will now either get bailed out entirely or will be eligible for rewriting their loans at better terms?

If Congress is going to bail out these subprime loans for the lenders with $700 BILLION of MY tax dollars then they better bail out my loan too. Why should my tax dollars go to pay off their loans but not mine?

CC

Some today rightly questioned whether 'Sub Prime Mortgages' and 'Subprime Mortgage Credit Derivatives' were created in tandem to sucker investors and now the public alike.

These 'Derivatives' basically allowed (as an analogy) them to insure a $50,000 Cadillac for $2,000,000, and COLLECT!

The derivatives were kept off the books and out of sight from shareholders. Corporations got off their business models and became gamblers.

I sure hope the U.S. gets these assets at "Fire Sale" prices as any venture capitalist would if this were private money - and OWNS EQUITY in these corporations. The fact the Bush Administration has had this plan written up for months is evidence they knew this was coming. Did they alert Congress or anyone else? NO! They were likely hoping it wouldn't come crashing down until Bush moves back to Crawford, or wherever he plans on parking himself once he's thankfully out of office.

The whole mess is disgustingly greedy.

I was watching the Banking Committee meeting on
CNBC today and it was an ugly picture. No one
has an answer/solution and the committee is
clueless and in way over their heads.

No one has an answer/solution and the committee is
clueless and in way over their heads.

#60 | Posted by realplus5

That's what happens when cronyism is the rule of the day and corruption is the modus operandi.

Fannie and Freddie have not been the problem, and this shows the ignorance of the masses. They just bought what was offered to them, wall st. and corporate welfare houses pressured govco to allow it, so the wealthiest could unload bad paper on them.
The pnacerneoconrepublithugs and the demosplats are nothing but organized crime outfits.
Paulson should be arrested. It is paper invented under his guidance that is destroying this nation, and all the investment banks came to the table for their piece of the action.
There is still approx. $3 trillion in those tax evasion accounts in lichtenstein.
Held by 20000 of the wealthiest fraud artists in this nation.
But keep talking out your asses. They keep telling you to jump through the burning ring of fire, and you do, and then wonder how it can keep getting worse because you are doing what they tell you, you must do.
It will take $15 trillion dollars to buy our way out of this mess, maybe more.
Pull your money, sell your stock, buy food, guns and ammo.
Are you breathless yet?
You will be.

I wonder if thoes SFBs have any idea what causes prices to rise and fall.

It seems to me that during the bubble (which was caused by cheep intrests rates and no down payment required)houses were being built like there was no tomorrow. Well, its here. They built way too many new houses that people couldn't afford.

This ain't rocket science folks.

"I sure hope the U.S. gets these assets at "Fire Sale" prices as any venture capitalist would if this were private money - and OWNS EQUITY in these corporations."

When they use terms like "assets" you know there is something that isn't Kosher here. What are these so called "assets" that banks want us to buy from them???
I am guessing that they are failed mortgages. If so then the only value would be the amount you could force the mortgagee into paying after teh auction of the house reduces the amount, there would be a balance still owed. Under our present bankruptcy laws I don't think these debts will be discharged and thus the "value" would be whatever amount could be collected from that mortgagee, probably through garnishment for decades impoverishing the individual and his/her family. Probably a difficult thing to enforce from a private perspective but not so difficult for the federal government. If the taxpayers decide later to grant mercy on these mortgageees then it will be the taxpayers who foot the bill for these worthless "assets." We are being lied to by all the financial talking heads on TV determined to convince us that these "assets" have value and that we will not lose the entire $700 Billion. They know we will but stand to gain plenty if and when this giveaway, I mean bailout, goes through.

Under our present bankruptcy laws I don't think these debts will be discharged and thus the "value" would be whatever amount could be collected from that mortgagee,

You are right danni, you dont think you just spew crap all over.

Really it MAY or then again it MAY not!

I have a better idea:

Give all that money to American People!

This hit my inbox today and your know I LIKE this idea!

You know, the "small" bailout now PAST, not the big one(s) coming up.
Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in
a We Deserve It Dividend.

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000
bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman
and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a
We Deserve It Dividend.

Of course, it would NOT be tax free.
So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.
That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.
A husband and wife have $595,000.00.

What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?
Pay off your mortgage housing crisis solved.
Repay college loans what a great boost to new grads
Put away money for college it'll be there
Save in a bank create money to loan to entrepreneurs.
Buy a new car create jobs
Invest in the market capital drives growth
Pay for your parent's medical insurance health care improves
Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean or else

There was more but I bet you get the idea!

close bold ...

aaaaaaaaawwwwwwww income resdistribution, the core of lib politics.

STOP the BAILOUT. Let them FAIL

These banks were irresponsible enough to loan more money to people than they could ever pay back.

The lending companies themselves are replaceable shells. They go up in flames, a dozen more will rise from their ashes. Of course the new companies will be as crooked as the old, just not tainted with 'failure'.

The only thing that will turn real estate around is a booming economy, and the only 'booming' in this economy is the sound of various corporations and institutions collapsing.

By in large, this is an EXCELLENT time to buy. Homes in places like California are at prices where mere mortals can afford them. If you have a good job and aren't already up to your eyeballs in debt, home loans aren't that hard to get, and the interest is low. A $50,000 'bank owned' house isn't going to get much cheaper. It's already hit rock bottom.

Unfortunately most people don't feel all that secure about their income.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a
We Deserve It Dividend.

looks like the math was off a few zeros on that plan...looks like it was more like $425!

But, hey if no one notices it will work as good or better that the current "plan".

don, you cautht it before I could post.