Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Sunday, September 21, 2008

It is not hyperbole -- Wall Street is in its worst financial crisis since the Depression. Had the fear of God not fallen on the right ears, we would have likely seen a 22% collapse in the Dow on Thursday morning. The market was 500 trades away from Armageddon on Thursday, traders inside two large custodial banks told The New York Post.

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See also: www.newser.com

"Bernanke, Paulson Put Fear of God Into Pols"

What a legacy this administration will leave to the historians! I think the are a thousand dissertations just waiting to be written as soon as Dubya and Cheney retire. More when they meet their makers.

apnews.myway.com

Paulson and bernanke should be arrested, along with every pol in the finance, bank and commerce committee. A few dozen ceo, cfo, cio, coo's to boot.
I am certain this was a planned event. They knew these derivitives were junk when they invented them.
Goldman was betting against the very derivitives they were telling their clients were golden. And paulson, corzine and others helped this shit come to fruition.

This is what happens when you allow men and women, whom see anything other than profit, as an obstacle to be removed, to run your government.

Cannot wait till october 3, when the short selling ban is lifted. The banks are still broke, having to borrow money so you can cash your paycheck. Their losses in real estate will continue, unabated.

Gitm...From the comments I've heard coming from the back seat of the limo for the past month, it's that short selling shell game that is responsible for the cascade. Some people need to go to prison for this, even if that list leads to the White House.

What a legacy this administration will leave to the historians!

No kidding. We need to start a New Deal-style works program for historians just to have enough of them to cover this eight-year disaster.

No kidding. We need to start a New Deal-style works program for historians just to have enough of them to cover this eight-year disaster.

#5 | Posted by rcade


FF (herstorians?:>)


No kidding. We need to start a New Deal-style works program for historians just to have enough of them to cover this eight-year disaster.


#5 | Posted by rcade


FF (herstorians?:>)

#6 | Posted by Bani

We will need it after the next administration. This ain't over yet.

Unless....

Niether a Repug nor Dem gets in...

We need a series of FDR-like measures just to begin to pull us out of the Bush depression , and a full-scale depression it is. Cataclysm is a little more accurate. Luckily in Barack Obama we have one up to the task, if only the Rigid Right Racists can get past their hang-ups. herm

Eddie- I'll hold out hope for an Obama admin, but the neocons will probably get to him anyway. We're fucked, but we're especially fucked with a McCain/Psycho bitch ticket.

Luckily in Barack Obama we have one up to the task, if only the Rigid Right Racists can get past their hang-ups.

Really, I am curious...what has he said that would indicate to you that he has any clue how to get out of this? The only thing I've heard him say is he wants to cut us another check, which is just going to inflate the currency even more. I'd love to hear a plan that doesn't involve printing more money and getting out of the way of the Fed so they can continue their toxic behavior.

...and a full-scale depression it is.

???

We aren't even in a recession yet, herm.

Really, I am curious...what has he said that would indicate to you that he has any clue how to get out of this?

Obama's been talking, laying it out - for those that pay attention. Fortunately there are people that have noticed long before this past week.

Take his (Obama's) plan to provide 10 million middle-class homeowners 10 percent off their interest rate through a universal mortgage tax credit, for example. Or the one about giving the Federal Reserve supervisory authority over any financial institution it extends credit to. Or the one about ending our balkanized framework of overlapping and competing regulatory agencies.

The list goes on. The point is, Obama went to great lengths in his speech to get as specific as possible. Since then Chicago has released an in-depth fact sheet outlining Obama's plan and an ad, "Plan for Change" [above], that consists of nothing but the candidate staring straight ahead and soberly explaining his major policy positions.


More at www.blog.newsweek.com contrasting McCain's words and record against Obama's detailed and specific agenda.

"More at www.blog.newsweek.com contrasting McCain's words and record against Obama's detailed and specific agenda."


That's a great ad, Yav. And 2 minutes long! That's the way to combat the media's 10 second soundbytes.

Goatman....don't be naive. We'll be at negative GDP very soon. Europe and the emerging markets are lagging us in the slowdown and they're in the 2nd inning of their slowdown. The ECB can't even think about lowering rates yet because of steady inflation fears. China is still dealing with inflation.

Technically, wouldn't Armageddon require a DOW of 0?

Apocalyptically, I mean...

Nullifidian and/or YAV --

Are either of you guys as suspicious as I am the way Bush, Bernanke, Paulson and the others in the back pocket of Wall Street are pushing to sign this so very important piece of legislation immediately and, as Bush is demanding, sign it with NO amendments or discussion?

I sure am.

Everytime they've scared Congress into asking no questions and just pass a bill it's been a disaster.

I was concerned enough to call my Senator's (Boxer) office on Friday and demand they take whatever time they need in order to go thru ALL the fine points in the bill and not to be intimidated by Bush and Wall Street into not even reading it first .

I told the staff person (I don't have enough clout to get any higher than that, lol) that 99% of America would rather they take all the time they need to go over the bill rather than blindly sign it as Bush wants them to do.

Who -- unless they had something up their sleeve -- would want a bill so important, a bill which is going to cost us taxpayers about a trillion dollars, to just be signed like some blank check.

I heard Sen. Schumer this morning say they are going to look it over (I would hope so!) and will probably demand some changes to it. I think they've maybe some in Congress have learned their lesson about rushing to sign bills that Bush tells them are 100% legit and legal.

I heard Obama's answer on Friday to what he would do re this mess our economy is in and he gave specific after specific in his answer and really impressed me with what he had to say. If you had read any of my posts over the last few months you know I had not been committed to voting for Obama. It's only until the last couple weeks or so when he's given specifics and details ahout what he would do if President that I've come around (even though I knew I would not vote for McCain). Unlike the Sarah! sycophants, it takes me a long time to get to know someone and feel I might be able to trust what they are saying, at least when it comes to politicians.

Didn't mean to prattle on, just wanted your thoughts about why Bush just wants Congress to sign this economic bill and make no changes to it. Bush acts like if it's not signed by next Friday the entire global economy will come crashing down next Saturday.

Take his (Obama's) plan to provide 10 million middle-class homeowners 10 percent off their interest rate through a universal mortgage tax credit, for example.

Where is the money going to come from to pay for that? Obama won't cut your taxes and we aren't running a surplus...therefore inflate the currency.

Or the one about giving the Federal Reserve supervisory authority over any financial institution it extends credit to.

So give the inmates the keys to the prison? That's reassuring. If he would have said reduce the power of the Federal Reserve, I may have felt a little bit better.


Still evaluating the overlapping regulatory agency policy...in addition to the PDF from the Obama camp.


While Obama has clearly typed more words than McCain on the subject, I really don't see anything to reassure me in any way. That being said, if I were a part of the Obama camp, I would spend a lot less time talking about Palin, and a lot more time talking about this.

I'm not suspicious, Chris. I think these fuckers realize that America capitalism is tottering on the edge of a major depression--thanks to years of free market fundamentalism--and don't want to repeat Hoover's mistakes of letting the market take care of it.

Are either of you guys as suspicious as I am the way Bush, Bernanke, Paulson and the others in the back pocket of Wall Street are pushing to sign this so very important piece of legislation immediately and, as Bush is demanding, sign it with NO amendments or discussion?

I sure am.

#16 | Posted by CalifChris at 2008-09-21 03:31 PM | Reply

This late in the game, I am opposed to any piece of legislation that Bush would be willing to sign. I am almost as skeptical of any piece of legislation this Congress might actually pass.

If these people had a clue about anything serious, they'd do something before catastrophes happen. Look at the last 7 years .... it has been one knee-jerk response to one disaster after another. We need a whole new crop in Washington -- in all three branches of government.

This story is the same old GOP bullshit.

I dont think the bailout is urgent either.

Their ramming it down our throats before anyone can think and discuss it.

While Obama has clearly typed more words than McCain on the subject, I really don't see anything to reassure me in any way. That being said, if I were a part of the Obama camp, I would spend a lot less time talking about Palin, and a lot more time talking about this.


#17 | Posted by Iraqibukkake


While this is a veri good point...Obama's hands will be tied for awhile yet with these gangsters running the ongoing confusion shows:>/



Wednesday, September 17, 2008
9-11 and the Crisis on Wall Street

by Christopher Bollyn
Adding Insult to Injury:
Americans Taxpayers Forced to Support
Zionist Criminal Gang Behind 9-11
The current financial crisis in the United States involves some of the very same Zionist criminals and entities that I pointed out in my recent chapter, "The Architecture of Terror: Mapping the Israeli Network Behind 9-11."

The collapse of their criminal scams on Wall Street could result in more information coming out about the Zionist gangsters behind 9-11. Such outrageous criminal scams cannot be kept hidden for long.

The government loan of $85 thousand millions of U.S. taxpayer dollars ($85 billion) to keep afloat Maurice Greenberg's criminal operation, American International Group (A.I.G.), brings into the spotlight one of the key individuals in the Zionist criminal network behind 9-11.


kennysideshow.blogspot.com

thanks to years of free market fundamentalism--and don't want to repeat Hoover's mistakes of letting the market take care of it.

What are the free market policies that have led to this situation? Was it derivatives or forced lending to people who shouldn't be lent to?

"What are the free market policies that have led to this situation? "

Neoliberalism: deregulation, privatization, and free trade.

commerical banks like Lehman's (one of the rumoured FED Reserve owners, too, from 1922 or so:>) don't have to have security backing in their derivative trades & so forth...fiat currency at it's worst/best:>)

Neoliberalism: deregulation, privatization, and free trade.

What was deregulated that led to this situation? Do you think lenders being forced to lend to high-risk individuals led to this situation?

What was privatized that led to this situation? Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were among the first to go in this fiasco. They weren't privatized.

Sorry, but this crap goes WAY beyond Bush's terms in office! This was in the works from the 1980's and beyond! The easiest way to stop the bleeding is to pass a pointed stop-gap bill, create a commission (THIS TIME WITH TEETH) to look in depth for long term resolution!

Commission would include Congress, the Executive, FED, financial institutions, and representatives from various state govts!

Give limited supeonna, investigative, indefification/formulation of regulations required, and of laws for presentation to and defense before congressional committees AND the American people!

There is currently no good way out of this, remember Mr Rubin awarding Bana-Mex to CITI-Group during Clinton's second term?

This is Paulson awarding cookie and cake to Goldman Sachs for Xmas, we WILL get full reimbursement, we always do!

To the victor go the spoils, in this case unlimited availability to cash and unfettered access to a credit line in perpetuity!

FTFA: Banks, which usually keep an average of $2 billion in excess reserves earmarked for withdrawals, pumped that up to an astounding $90 billion by Wednesday, Lou Crandall, chief economist at Wrighton ICAP, told The Journal.

And for good reason. By the close of business on Wednesday, $144.5 billion - a record - had been withdrawn. How much money was taken out of money market funds the prior week? Roughly $7.1 billion, according to AMG Data Services.

And thus was a 1929 style run on the banks prevented from achieving full fruition.

Scary stuff.

This reeks of "Disaster Capitalism" to Spud.

Forknowledge of an upcoming calamity deliberately taken advantage of by the powers-that-be fer the benefit of those who should go to jail fer their malfeasance and to the detriment of the suckers that hafta pony up the dough to pay them off.

if I were a part of the Obama camp, I would spend a lot less time talking about Palin, and a lot more time talking about this.

~IB

Good advice.

Is Obama a monetary messiah come to make everything all better?

Not so much.

Is he the only real and rational choice to sterr the ship of state away from the rocks of ruin that the GOPhers have set a course for?

Yes, yes he is.

G08ama/Biden.

Be Well.

Federal Reserve Power

Below is quote from Representative Louis T. McFadden, Chairman of the Committee on Banking and Currency for 12 years as quoted from the Congressional Record

The Federal Reserve Board, ..., has cheated the Government of the United States and the people of the United States out of enough money to pay the national debt...Our people's money to the extend of $1,200,000,000 has within the last few months been shipped abroad to redeem Federal Reserve Notes and to pay other gambling debts of the traitorous Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve Banks...............

SUMMARY OF QUICK FACTS
1a. The Federal Reserve (FED) is a PRIVATELY OWNED, organization. Unbelievable? Check the ENCYCLOPAEDIA BRITANNICA.
b. Below is the list of the owners of the 12 Central Banks:
- Rothschild Bank of London
- Rothschild Bank of Berlin
- Lazard Brothers of Paris
- Israel Moses Seif Banks of Italy
- Warburg Bank of Amsterdam
- Warburg Bank of Hamburg
- Lehman Brothers of New York
- Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York
- Goldman, Schs of New York
- Chase Manhattan Bank of New York
In all, there are about 300 VERY POWERFUL, partly foreign individuals that owns the FED.

whistleblowers.freehosting.net

"This reeks of "Disaster Capitalism" to Spud."

It sure is, Spud.

www.commondreams.org

"This reeks of "Disaster Capitalism" to Spud."

It sure is, Spud.

Null, the point is this: If the government bails out failing anything, it isn't free market anything. Can we at least agree on that?

"Null, the point is this: If the government bails out failing anything, it isn't free market anything. Can we at least agree on that?"

Exactly. When free market policies result in crisis, it's discarded. The pattern repeats itself over and over.

And who has the liquid cash to do whatever it takes to keep things going their way?


McCain...Manchurian
Candidate la Rothschild
From Elmer Lane
3-17-8

Under the headline "Lord Rothschild Backs John McCain"

The Washington Post(March 15, 2008) informs us that "Sen. John McCain plans at least one campaign event on his week-long congressional trip to Europe and the Middle East: a March 20 fundraiser in London. An invitation sent out by the campaign says the luncheon will be held at Spencer House, St. James's Place, 'by kind permission of Lord Rothschild OM GBE and the Hon Nathaniel Rothschild.' Tickets to the invitation-only event cost $1,000 to $2,300. Attire is listed as "lounge suits.
How innocent is that?
"The time to buy is when blood is running in the streets." This remark was made by an earlier Nathan Rothschild, the one who reduced the Bank of Englands gold reserves by 100,000 pounds by cahsing hundreds of small notes, almost sinking that institution because the bank would not cash his one of his larger notes. You will note that as blood has been running in Wall Street Goldman Sachs has been investing billions in its hedge funds, paying off %16 percent in just one month, "contrarian-like-a-fox" profitably buying up selected assets as share prices tumble. But the Rothschilds are also playing this game with their hedge funds. Are they placing bets which McCain will turn into sure things? Consider what is behind that question:


www.rense.com

"Forbes magazine poses lower ranking billionaires like Bill Gates and Warren Buffett as the richest men in the World. Retired management consultant Gaylon Ross Sr, author of Who's Who of the Global Elite, has been tipped from a private source that the combined wealth of the Rockefeller family in 1998 was approx (US) $11 trillion and the Rothschilds (U.S.) $100 trillion. A recent article in the London Financial Times indicates why it is impossible to gain an accurate estimate of the wealth of the trillionaire bankers. Discussing the sale of Evelyn Rothschild's stake in Rothschild Continuation Holdings, it states: ...[this] requires agreement on the valuation of privately held assets whose value has never been tested in a public market. Most of these assets are held in a complex network of tax-efficient structures around the World. The power of the Rothschild family was evidenced on 24 Sept 2002 when a helicopter touched down on the lawn of Waddedson Manor, their ancestral home in Buckinghamshire, England. Out of the helicopter strode Warren Buffet, - touted as the second richest man in the World but really a lower ranking player- and Arnold Schwarzenegger (the gropinator), at that time a candidate for the Governorship of California. Also in attendance at this two day meeting of the World's most powerful businessmen and financiers hosted by Jacob Rothschild were James Wolfensohn, president of the World Bank and Nicky Oppenheimer, chairman of De Beers. Arnold went on to secure the governorship of one of the biggest economies on the planet a year later. That he was initiated into the ruling class in the Rothschilds' English country manor suggests that the centre of gravity of the three hundred trillion dollar cartel is in the U.K. and Europe not the U.S. "

This just in....greed not so good.

What are the free market policies that have led to this situation? Was it derivatives or forced lending to people who shouldn't be lent to?

#22 | Posted by IraqiBukkake at 2008-09-21 04:05 PM

ALL the free market policies and ideologies led to this economic disaster we're now in.

Derivatives, speculators, DEREGULATION pushed by the Republicans which effectively got rid of all the federal rules and regulations, underfunding and downsizing the number of regulators who were suppose to oversee and prevent this kind of fraud. And last, but not least, GREED which was allowed to run amok by this White House and their cronies who couldn't do enough for their buddies on Wall Street.

btw -- Why do you call it "forced lending"???

To those crooks in the financial lending institutions those fraudulent subprime loans couldn't be given out fast enough to suit them.

One lender would make a loan (often loaning 30 times more than the amount of money they had available to loan) and then bundle their loans and sell them immediately to another lender who would then also bundle those loans and sell them to another investor and on and on it went until finally no one wanted to buy those bundled loans anymore as they had become worthless. The last lender holding the worthless subprime loans (after many borrowers could no longer pay) ended up eating them. Well those lenders would have had to eat them until Bush bailed them out and made the American taxpayer eat them instead.

"ALL the free market policies and ideologies led to this economic disaster we're now in."

Well said, Chris. :)

This just in....greed not so good.

Whaaa?!

Be Well.

Exactly. When free market policies result in crisis, it's discarded. The pattern repeats itself over and over.

If free market policies were used, there would be no bailouts. If the community redevelopment act weren't manipulated to force lending to people who shouldn't be lent to there would be no bailouts. If there weren't bailouts those people wouldn't be lent to due to the risk.

What was deregulated that led to this situation? Do you think lenders being forced to lend to high-risk individuals led to this situation?

A problem that could have been contained, escalated to one that was out of control because of the packaging (i.e. securitizing) of mortgages. If the relationship between the buyer and mortgage holder had been maintained, the mortgage holder would have been more careful about to whom then lended money. Instead, the mortgage holder didn't care who they were lending to because they weren't going to be held responsible if the mortgator defaulted. In other words, they passed the buck.

Even though it was the will of congress to increase home ownership in minority communities, it was not the will of congress for lenders to make bad loans. Because of red lining, there were many in minority communities that had the same economic profile of whites but were still being denied mortgages. The will of congress was to fix this problem.

Fedup you are wrong, mortgage securitization is NOT a bad thing. If you want to outlaw that, you are WAY over to the left of wall street, main street, congress, and both obama and mccain.

I find it interesting though that Paulson did nothing till Goldman Sachs was headed for the toilet bowl. I blame Paulson for EXCABERATING the credit crisis when he defaulted on newly raised preferred shareholders of fnm and fre. He and bernake urged them to raise capital then they crapped on the investors. Malfeasance and fraud in my books.

Who would ever invest in any bank now knowing how they the treasury treats people like those who lost their life savings thinking they were doing a good thing for the country.

As a general rule, any private, commercial activity that results in the taxpayer having to provide a bail out is wrong and should be prevented.

When the dust settles, I suspect that congress will impose some type of restriction on mortgage securitization.

It may turn out that the only organizations that will be permitted to provide securitization of US mortgages is the GSEs: Ginne Mae and Freddie Mac.

Gitm...From the comments I've heard coming from the back seat of the limo for the past month, it's that short selling shell game that is responsible for the cascade. Some people need to go to prison for this, even if that list leads to the White House.

#4 | Posted by dutch46

bullshit.. that is a plain stupid comment. You can have covered calls and and calls but no puts? Give me a f'ing break.


If the rethugs didn't deregulate every goddamn thing and the banks didn't get crazy greedy it would not be a problem.

We aren't even in a recession yet, herm.

#11 | Posted by goatman

yes we are.

economics.about.com

Sorry, but this crap goes WAY beyond Bush's terms in office! This was in the works from the 1980's and beyond!
#26 | Posted by dogen

That's right. And it was another corrupt Republican who started it.

Nixon Shock

Way back in the 80's? Why that's around the time of McCain's involvement in the Keating Five.

Way back in the 80's? Why that's around the time of McCain's involvement in the Keating Five.

Was that before or after Neil Bush's S&L debacle?

Hard to keep these rethug financial scandals straight after a while cos there's so darn many of 'em.

Be Well.

Bush's Legacy of Financial Squandering: thinkprogress.org

Well he almost squeaked by two full terms without things really going bust. ... But, then, if you're a chimp sitting in the big seat -- stuff happens!

How is it possible with Barak Obama and all his akomplishmints as a communitee Organiser that we could have a financial meltdown?

Surely hasn't everyone heard that he is bringing hope back to the white house?

Oh, maybe some crack addicts thought he said dope.

"How is it possible with Barak Obama and all his akomplishmints as a communitee Organiser that we could have a financial meltdown?"

Floppy, things have melted BECAUSE Barack is not yet in office. herm

Somebody needs to relax. The Dow is still over 10,000--11,000, in fact-- and the economy isn't even in recession--let alone "Armageddon". I don't like looking at my trading screen and seeing nothing but flashing red digits any more than the next guy. But get some perspective. On 9/11 the firm that handled most of the world's government bond trades got slaughtered in the world trade center, and Wall Street opened a week later down 20%.

Investment banks made a bunch of bad trades, and retail banks made a lot of bad loans. They do this every few years, and the taxpayers have to come along and write a check, and usually make out profitably besides. In the late 1990's it was LTCM and the Asian Contagion; in the early 1990's it was the S&L's and the collapse of limited partnerships; in the late 1980's it was the bailout of Latin America. In the early 1980's it was the recapitalization of hundreds of banks wiped out in the inflation of the late 1970's. And so on.

Whew! Huh!... 500 trades from Armageddon....

I do not rejoice over the economic mess, but I do take delight in the wake up call --- that even America can fall without the intervention of God.

Yes, scary... but I did not blink because I knew from the depth of my heart God will come to rescue America and lift it to greater heights.

Actually, California is on the way to recovery, and the nation as a whole is being prepared for a wonderful time of peace and properity starting from the administration of the next President.

And yes, George Bush will exit office with dignity and vindication.

No wars!!!! Iran and Russia may be making noises --- but no war. A long season of peace and properity is ahead --- good news for both liberals and conservatives.

God bless America!

TakitEZ-
Do you remember a time before you lost your mind?

RightisRight-
re: "They do this every few years, and the taxpayers have to come along and write a check, and usually make out profitably besides."

The taxpayers "usually make out profitably besides"?

Did I get that meaning right?

...They do this every few years, and the taxpayers have to come along and write a check, and usually make out profitably besides."

RightisRight-

Err, yeah, sure. U.S. taxpayers have always made trillion dollar bailouts "every few years" as Wall Street literally gets on the verge of economic collapse. Happens all the time, right? Can you tell me the year the last time every major financial institution was on the brink of collapse and we bailed them out to the tune of one trillion dollars? Other than in 1929?

What else is happening in your Land of Oz.

CC-
It was literally last week, and the taxpayers stand to profit handsomely. (Yes, irony intended)

Seriously though, one of the more recent major buyouts that cost us billions was the Keating Five S&L debacle. It's an interesting Google subject for a lazy evening.

BetelG

Still Keating Five and the S&L debacle didn't come close to the one trillion dollars this deregulation scandal is going to cost us. Nor did it touch major big time players like AIG and Fannie Mae, right? I may be wrong as I haven't read up on those old scandals for awhile but I believe this one is the granddaddy of them all.

And how can Bush justify baiing out foreign banks!

I know one thing and that is Congress better go thru this bill with a fine tooth comb and not just blindly vote it thru like Bush wants done. Bush is in waaaaay too much of a hurry to get this bill signed -- no questions asked. Makes me real suspicious -- as if I wasn't already. lol

baiing = bailing

CC-
You're right. I didn't intend to imply a comparison of scale.

Not to sound too dismissive and Pollyanna-like, but I think maybe good will come from this scandal because it would have had to be on this large scale of corruption and threat of financial institutions dropping like dominos for the entire U.S. to finally sit up and take notice of what's been going on.

If this Wall Street deregulation scandal had threatened our financial markets to a lesser degree than it did, people would have paid some attention for about a week and then gone on to the next news event. But this scandal is a situation that has shaken Wall Street to its very foundation and has grabbed ahold of the entire nation's attention. Hopefully it will now force some much needed oversight and changes.

So, all in all, maybe it's best it happened now.

The very idea of 'writing a blank check', as the Bush White House is requesting, is an insult to Americans. This administrations record of handing out hundreds of billions of OUR money via 'no bid' contracts and the like - under less than favorable conditions to WE their taxpayer saviors - is clear.

-Absolutely DO NOT place total unbridled disbursement authority in the hands of one man.

-No golden parachutes for any exec in a bailed out company

-Fire sale prices for their holdings rather than inflated valuations companies may seek knowing the handout is there. We have the upper hand and should negotiate the rock bottom prices on any assets we acquire as any "angel" venture capitalist company would.

-Congressional oversight and agreement with any deals the Treasury Secretary feels are necessary. If this is to truly be a bipartisan effort then it should truly be an American effort that favors the taxpayers at all turns.

And no rescue of foreign banks. The Saudis, Chinese, Japanese are all have balanced budgets and then some. They should bail out their own reckless U.S. branches.

Pollyanna-like

Ha! Spud is "still in luff with Hayley Mills"

/obligatory

Be Well.

/Really gone now.

Bush's timing is terrible.

This economic meltdown wasn't supposed to happen until AFTER Obama took office.

Damn that Phil Gramm and his number crunching. How's a president supposed to have a decent legacy when these old farts like Gramm and McCain can't get their deregulation timing straight.

Damn those sub-prime mortgage lenders!
Damn those lazy oversighters in congress!
Damn those greedy home buyers!

Damn, Damn, Damn. I'm George W. Bush and I've been robbed! Dagnab it!

AU you have offered up much in your little rant there. Go read Saturday's Barrons and you get your finger much closer to the issues...not some talking points that have little to do with Administrating a debt bailout of this magnitude.

I will now offer my opinion, why bailout debt holders????? Let them live with the collateral which backs their securities, plain and simple.

If they bought junk let them eat junk. if they invested in cdo's or siv's they took the risk. If they invested in hedge funds, did they know those funds were trying to bite the hands that fed them???

Gov bailouts of debt holders securities is extremely dangerous and (bad) precedent setting......

While we rant and rave Congress is getting ready to rubber stamp this theft. The banks have threatened economic armageddon if we don't pay their blackmail and the Democrats are so weak kneed that they just go along like stupid, very stupid, sheep.

Last Updated: September 22, 2008: 8:10 AM EDT


NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Stocks were poised to fall Monday as investors braced for Congressional debate on the Treasury Department's proposed $700 billion bailout plan for the financial services industry, and after federal regulators converted Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs - the last stand-alone investment banks - into holding companies.

At 8:10 a.m. ET, stock futures were lower, indicating a decline at the opening bell. That would be a stark contrast to trading on Thursday and Friday, when the Dow Jones industrial average surged nearly 800 points in its biggest rally since 2000. But it would continue the volatility seen over the last week.

Moody's chief economist Mark Zandi said that futures were experiencing a "pullback from the big rally at the end of last week in response to the plan."

"As people take a closer look at the details and the cost of the plan, they might be growing a bit nervous about what it all means, and that's reflected in the soft open," said Zandi.


Might grow a bit nervous?


Well No Shit.

Let me revise and extend.


No Fucking Shit.

$700 BILLION

RiR:It is people like you, non-producers, that are the problem. You're a cheerleader for the greatest ponzi scheme ever. A con artist and charlatan.

Here are a few facts regarding many, if not most derivitives.
1). In order to break even, the economy must maintain a REAL gdp of 3.2%.
2). In order to maintain the floor for this particular invesment paper, 1,000,000 quality mortgages must be added to the inventory, annually.
3). Foreclosures MUST remain at or below historical, mathematical averages.
4). The fair market value of the real estate that the derivitives are based on must increase, year over year, at roughly 2.2%.

Now, here is the meat: For every $224k of mortgage, there is roughly $12.3 million in liabilities should that motgage unravel.

That is fraud, pure, unadulterated fraud. I hope your next profession is shoveling shit for a hog farmer @ minimum wage.

NO BAILOUT!
NO BAILOUT!
NO BAILOUT!
NO BAILOUT!

The taxpayers "usually make out profitably besides"?


Did I get that meaning right?

#53 | Posted by BetelG
* * * *
Yep. You did. Which explains why there is an emergency meeting of AIG shareholders in New York, right now, to get out of the government "bailout".

The Treasury will issue paper at 3.69%, and take on debt paying over 11%. They will work out a great majority of those, getting paid back two or three times what they paid.


RiR:It is people like you, non-producers, that are the problem. You're a cheerleader for the greatest ponzi scheme ever. A con artist and charlatan.


Here are a few facts regarding many, if not most derivitives.
1). In order to break even, the economy must maintain a REAL gdp of 3.2%.
2). In order to maintain the floor for this particular invesment paper, 1,000,000 quality mortgages must be added to the inventory, annually.
3). Foreclosures MUST remain at or below historical, mathematical averages.
4). The fair market value of the real estate that the derivitives are based on must increase, year over year, at roughly 2.2%.


* * * *

I'm ambivalent about the bailout. Suits me fine to have people who borrowed for too much house thrown out of their homes, and the mortgage companies go under. No difference to me, and everyone learns a lesson.

As to this above post, you don't have any idea what you're talking about--you just made most of it up. Derivatives are counted 8, 9, 10+ times when you throw big numbers like that around. By the way--didn't you predict the market would close last week, in the biggest selloff in history? Haven't you been doing so for months and months? How many times can you be wrong, before you just leave, with your tail between your legs?

Now, here is the meat: For every $224k of mortgage, there is roughly $12.3 million in liabilities should that motgage unravel.

* * * *

Ridiculous and stupid. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

i do not even pretend to understand what all this means.

what I do know is that my 401K is down 40% from a year ago.

what I do know is that the stock exchange is going nowhere.

what I do know is that all this stuff I am hearing sounds similar to the enron shenanigans. bad debt etc.

what I do know is that my company (a private medium sized firm) is for the first time in a very long time drastically cutting expenses and talking about lay offs (white collar)

what I do know is that we are pouring money on top of our public debt. I dont know if this is the right or wrong thing to do. it seems to me that we will all pay one way or another if the stock market crashes.



wound my heart with monotonous languor.

DAVETHEWAVE

You mistake my post as advocating the bailout. I do not. I think companies that engage in reckless ventures should pay the price.

George Bush and the GOP have led America down the garden path of 'deregulation'. Doesn't work. They don't play nice and put shareholders money at risk.

Now, it looks as though a bailout will happen. If so, I listed my points as to what should and should not happen.

Quit voting GOP and maybe this shit won't happen so often. We're in a mess domestically and internationally in a plethora of areas thanks to your boy. You wanna bitch? Bitch at the ones who got us in these incredible and avoidable messes.

How the Democrats Created the Financial Crisis

...But we now know that many of the senators who protected Fannie and Freddie, including Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and Christopher Dodd, have received mind-boggling levels of financial support from them over the years....

www.bloomberg.com

The Dems want to blame the GOP, the GOP blame the Dems, the banks bought huge of amounts of very risky loans for higher profits and got burned, and people wanted bigger houses that they couldn't afford if the interest rates went up after 5 years.

It took a team effort to make this debacle, not just one party over another, and not just banks either, or people, but everyone.

"It took a team effort to make this debacle, not just one party over another, and not just banks either, or people, but everyone."

Whoa...don't toss me in that mix. I never borrowed a penny, and never pretended using my house as a piggy bank was wise. And I railed against these failed policies and warned of the laws of economic gravity. And what do I get for being cautious and correct?

A huge bill.

Dan -- The biggest contributer to the debacle of 08 wasn't the housing bubble bursting as it was the implosion of the Collateralized Debt Obligations and the attending credit default swaps and interest rate swaps that helped these bundles come together.

Once these derivatives lost the ability of their counterparties, like Bear Stearns and IndyMac Bank and others to stand by their obligations, the derivatives began unwinding from off-balance sheet contingincies to real cash flow liabilities.

IMHO, FNMA & FHLMC were only slightly to blame for lobbying to be so thinly capitalized when they had inventory they needed to pass through and when they went raising billions of dollars of debt to capitalize themselves. Thanks, too, to the politicians in Congress who fell for the booze and schmoozing by FNMA's and FHLMC's exec.

The credit rating agencies and insurers that gave good ratings on CDO's, non-agency pass-throughs and a variety of auction rate commitments were also partly to blame, because their models were sadly flawed. How should they have known? These products were never stress tested, and the issuers balked at "unrealistic scenarios" in the evaluation models. But should you give up academic objectivity when you are assuring investors about the likelihood of timely payment of principle, interest and liquidity?

And the credit officers at all of the participating financial organizations need to be shaken up a bit.

It is said that only about 6 people in the whole country can understand the vulnerability of the financial system to the plethora of derivatives and off-balance sheet items. That's probably true. If so, then they should be banned.

Here's the double whammy we're getting next -- Not only are the financial markets hurting, but there will be a slew of unintended consequences: Gasoline will soar to new expensive heights as the dollar slides under the weight of the bailout. And that means the dollar won't buy much, so everything will get more expensive; US bonds, now a safe haven in times of stress won't pay investors much, and the foreign investors will shift their investing to other places if they can; There might also be a rush from international inestors to redeem their US bonds. When we need their cash next time, they might not be as willing to lend; Banks will be very reluctant to refi client's mortgages or loans, and new loans will be given only to the best credits. There is too much risk out there, it seems.

What it looks like is the makings of a crisis of confidence. When this happens, nothing looks very good to inest in.

Nobody knows for sure if there would have been a melt down, even those fools on Wall Street. 22% down is not too bad. I would see that as a buying opportunity. I'm buying Chinese ADRs. Paulson and Bush panicked like amateur investors.

BS--

www.drudge.com

WAKE UP PEOPLE. WE NEED TO MARCH ON WASHINGTON, DC AND MAKE THIS STOP. THEY ARE ROBBING US BLIND. WE WILL HAVE NOTHING LEFT!!!!!!

All you righties are not taking into consideration the falling value of the dollar when you talk up stock and home values. If you did you would recognize that everything is in the fucking tank.

If you consider the lengths Politicians will go to to cover up problems before an election its even worse.

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