While lashing out at the audience member, Biden defended his academic credentials by inflating them, in a fashion that was notably unbecoming and petty for a presidential candidate.

"I think I probably have a much higher IQ than you do, I suspect," Biden sniped at the voter. "I went to law school on a full academic scholarship." That claim was false, as was another claim, made in the same rant, that he graduated in the top half of his law-school class. Biden wrongly stated, too, that he had earned three undergraduate degrees, when in fact he had earned onea double major in history and political science.

Kinnock: "Why am I the first Kinnock in a thousand generations to be able to get into university? Why is Glenys the first woman in her family in a thousand generations to be able to get into university? Was it because all our predecessors were thick? Did they lack talent? Those people who could sing and play and recite and write poetry? The people who could make wonderful, beautiful things with their hands? Those people who could dream dreams, see visions? Why didn't they get it? Was it because they were weak? Those people who could work eight hours underground and then come up and play football? Weak? Does anybody really think that they didn't get what we had because they didn't have the talent or the strength or the endurance or the commitment? Of course not. It was because there was no platform upon which they could stand."

Biden: "I started thinking as I was coming over here, why is it that Joe Biden is the first in his family ever to go to a university? Why is it that my wife who is sitting out there in the audience is the first in her family to ever go to college? Is it because our fathers and mothers were not bright? Is it because I'm the first Biden in a thousand generations to get a college and a graduate degree that I was smarter than the rest? Those same people who read poetry and wrote poetry and taught me how to sing verse? Is it because they didn't work hard? My ancestors, who worked in the coal mines of Northeast Pennsylvania and would come up after 12 hours and play football for four hours? No, it's not because they weren't as smart. It's not because they didn't work as hard. It's because they didn't have a platform upon which to stand."

But have any of his kids been in trouble? That's the real question.
Well, that and why doesn't Joe Biden pay his bills? Who the fuck does he think he is, Hillary?

Joe, unfortunately, in a world where it is now the norm to rip material off the internet, I don't think there are many people who get upset about plagarism anymore.

Taxman-

Read the article. The difference is that Biden stole this speech and lied about his own life.

I don't think there are many people who get upset about plagarism anymore.

#4 | Posted by taxman at 2008-09-18 10:59 AM | Reply

Why should we care, right? It's only stealing. It's not like somebody paid for a used tanning booth with their own money or anything.

I know the story, but I am telling you, people just don't give a shit anymore - not about the Biden story, but about cheating/lying in general. That is the nation we have become.

Taxman-

Are you one of the people who does not care about things like this anymore? Or is it your role as an Obama supporter to respond to this story with generalizations about "society as a whole" instead of voicing your own disapproval?

I'm sure the people that are so worried about Palin and McCains' college years will be absolutely irate over the fact that Biden got an F in Law School for plagarising 5 whole pages of text.

Where's Americanversionvan with his concern for the Collegiate Years?

No, I care Joe, and I personally think Biden has to answer his critics on this issue. However, it is apparent society doesn't care, and it is obvious why they don't care. Everyone is out to get "theirs" and will do anything - whether it be illegal, immoral, unethical, etc. - to get it. Remember what Gordon Geco said.

" However, it is apparent society doesn't care"

I think society cares. I think anyone in academia would care. I think something more true would be that the media doesn't care, because they don't want society to hear about it. If Sarah Palin had been caught plagiarizing speeches and blatantly lying about her upbringing, you'd be hearing a lot more about it.

The incidents of plagiarism and fabrication that forced Joe Biden to quit the 1988 presidential race have drawn little comment--

YEAH!

Well, in all honesty it hasnt been Fifty Years yet!

Sincerely

The Dont Judge me Till Im Dead Conservamunist Party

I think society cares. I think anyone in academia would care. I think something more true would be that the media doesn't care, because they don't want society to hear about it. If Sarah Palin had been caught plagiarizing speeches and blatantly lying about her upbringing, you'd be hearing a lot more about it.

#11 | Posted by JOE at 2008-09-18 11:12 AM | Reply

You think this, you think that. Who cares?

Posted by JOE at 2008-09-18 11:14 AM | Reply

Great post, Bob. What you fail to realize (as you always do) is that saying what you think about a plagiarism story is different than saying what you "think" someone might have done as it relates to alleging that they have committed a crime. Context. Look it up.

... the fact that Biden got an F in Law School for plagarising 5 whole pages of text.

So that should wipe out any and all accomplishments the man has done since that time with his 30 plus years in the Senate? I'm not excusing it, but notice his law school didn't feel his act of plagerism rose to a level of being so wrong they felt they needed to expel him.

Nobody said it should wipe out anything. The point is that it is being ignored while similar and dissimilar misdeeds by the other side's VP candidate are being blown up.

Joe

Nobody cares what you think dummy. That's the context. We aren't electing a fraking Saint here. If you go back thirty years in anyones life I would say there are things that most would change and be embarrassed about. I think Biden has done well in the integrity department as compared to the more recent history of Palin and McCain.

Bob-

If Palin buying a fucking tanning bed is relevant to anything, then so is the fact that Biden has plagiarized another man's life story. So is the fact that Biden recently pushed for a law that directly benefited a client of his millionaire lobbyist son. If you and the mainstream media don't care about those stories, I don't give a shit. Don't comment in the thread like all the other sheep if it isn't important to you.

Joe

Biden plagierized 20 years ago.

Palin bought the tanning bed--when?

Palin kept the money for the Bridge to Nowhere ---when?

Palin used her power to attack a private citizen---when?

Palin lied about selling a helicopter on Ebay---when?

Palin lied about making a profit on the sale of the plane---when?

McCain lied about Palin selling that plane on Ebay---when?

McCain lied about Palin making a profit on the sale of that plane---when?

Palin lied about cooperating with the Troopergate investigation---when?

Palin fought against the Troopergate investigation---when?

Palin charged the state per diem for living in her own house---when?

Palin advocated charging rape victims for their rape kits---when?

I think Biden has a track record for the last 20 years as being honest, and has proven his integrity, and will do the same once in office.

I think Palins record for the last couple of years has proven how she will continue to operate once in office.

Joe

Biden doesn't meet with lobbyists, and his son has never lobbied him.

"Biden doesn't meet with lobbyists"

Right. His staff does, as is the case with most politicians. What's the difference?

Do some reading:

"Biden plagierized 20 years ago."

Why should that matter? Unless he was a child then and is more mature now (which is not the case), I don't see the relevance of that. If Biden murdered someone 20 years ago, would it not matter because it was 20 years ago?

As is always the case with people who have no principles, you just make up the standards as you go along.

"Palin advocated charging rape victims for their rape kits---when?"

Good question. When did she advocate that?

"Palin lied about selling a helicopter on Ebay---when?"

Never. She said she "put" it on ebay. That is not a lie.

The important thing to note here is that you are doing everything within your power to avoid admitting that Joe Biden is a plagiarizing moron who lied to supporters about his own life story. You are also failing to acknowledge the suspicious circumstances surrounding his support for a law that directly benefited his son's client, whether there is proof of an "official meeting" between him and his son or not (are we to assume he never talks to his son just because he claims not to ever meet with lobbyists?). Just keep deflecting. I'm sure it makes you feel better inside.

Joe,
That isn't the same exact bankruptcy bill that the liberals went apeshit over was it? Didn't they screech about how it was evil and the republicans were in the pocket of corporate america because it passed?
You don't mean to tell me that Joe Biden voted for it do you? Between that, the Patriot Act, and FISA, the Osama/Biden 08 crew must really be angry!

I like how everyone that uses Obamas college education as a plus, and McCain and Palin's as a negative, mysteriously are silent on Bidens F for plagarizing in Law School. Not just a couple of lines either, 5 whole pages of text.

Joe

I guess you can't fraking read either. Try again. What is the first sentence in my 2:02 post?

Hint:

Biden plagiarized 20 years ago.

Exactly. A great deal has been made over Palin switching colleges 6 times. That was probably about 20 years ago too. So why isn't Biden's plagiarism from 20 years ago where he told blatant lies about his life story relevant? Why isn't his F in law school for plagiarism relevant?

Bob-

Since you like to pretend I didn't answer your question already, I'll repeat.

Why should that matter? Unless he was a child then and is more mature now (which is not the case), I don't see the relevance of that. If Biden murdered someone 20 years ago, would it not matter because it was 20 years ago?

Bob, what is the "statute of limitations" when it comes to bringing up dirt on politicians? Apparently the answer is somewhere between "everything bad Palin has ever done" and "20 years." I'm looking for the exact number if you have it.

Joe B is a bright above average politician, and like a lot of busy folks probably followed tha adage "Don't reinvent the wheel!"

Certainly if pairing up IQ's Biden's is probably above that of GWB's or J McSame's. But he isn't any harvard law review editor, either.

That allowed, where's the harm to accepting concepts of pluralism and accountability and loyalty to the working class that Joe B endorsed when Kinnock so well articulated the same ideals. It's not as if the ideals Kinnock endorsed or his words were copyrighted.

So, sure, its a bit bush to give a speech that somebody else wrote. But if Biden believed in the ideals articulated it's not as if he was plagiarizing a term paper for academic credit. He was just echoing another person's passioned words to endorse essentially the same ideals.

(When a politician echoes the Gospels or ML King Jr. or Abe Lincoln, do we get all riled up about that as "plagiarism? Of course not!)

I only know that being a POW but not really talking about it much except for every time you say you won't, has no statute of limitations.

"He was just echoing another person's passioned words to endorse essentially the same ideals."

Did you read the article? He didn't just repeat the statements that had to do with the values he and Kinnock share. He repeated stories about Kinnock's family life and claimed them to be his own. The stories aren't true as applied to Biden. He is a liar. The fact that you would pretend not to see that is sad.

"Palin advocated charging rape victims for their rape kits---when?"

Good question. When did she advocate that?

When she was mayor of Wasilla and did nothing to correct this atrocity. Obama saw the same laws in some Illinois cities and got legislation passed to end the atrocity.

"Palin lied about selling a helicopter on Ebay---when?"

Never. She said she "put" it on ebay. That is not a lie.

True--but she left the story there. She didn't say it didn't sell. She didn't say she lost 600,000 of the States money. She made it sound as if she sold it on Ebay when she could just as easily have told the whole truth. To me--saying she put it on Ebay---is taking the transaction out of context. It is misleading when she brags about it at her acceptance speech. But here is McCain perpetuating the misconception. Oops--I guess he's just lying.

"When she was mayor of Wasilla and did nothing to correct this atrocity."

That is not advocacy. The term "advocate" means "to plead in favor of" or the "act" of advocating something. By doing nothing about it, she at most implicitly accepted it - she did not "advocate" it as you stated. You are a liar.

"True--but she left the story there."

Exactly. So she never lied about selling anything on ebay. You are the liar. Now respond to the rest of my posts or STFU.

Bob, what is the "statute of limitations" when it comes to bringing up dirt on politicians? Apparently the answer is somewhere between "everything bad Palin has ever done" and "20 years." I'm looking for the exact number if you have it.

#30 | Posted by JOE at 2008-09-18 02:22 PM | Reply

I haven't said anything to mitigate the plagiarism by Biden. It was definitely wrong. However, to me the track record of someone who has admitted their mistake and corrected their ways is important. Since I'm not a Christian, I can forgive people and accept that they can live a decent life if given a chance. On the other hand if someone shows a consistent and recent history of deviant behaviour, I tend to assume that they will continue with those types of action in the future--especially if those actions are richly rewarded.

Biden has shown a good history for 20 years--his bank accounts show he isn't getting rich. McCain and Palin on the other hand have shown a recent penchant for lying out their ass.

The fact that you would pretend not to see that is sad.

Joe

Why should I respond to your posts when you don't respond to mine? What about this?

Joe

If you see a woman being raped and do nothing when you have the power to stop it---you are an advocate of rape.

If you are the mayor of a town and know that it charges for rape kits and do nothing when you have the power to stop it---you are an advocate of charging for rape kits.

That you can't make that simple connection is sad.

"However, to me the track record of someone who has admitted their mistake and corrected their ways is important."

I agree. So why support Biden?

Biden angrily denied having done anything wrong and urged the press to chase after the political rival who had sent out what came to be called the "attack video. For all these disclosures, Biden remained unbowed. "I'm in the race to stay, I'm in the race to win, and here I come," he declared. That meant, of course, that his days were numbered. Newsweek soon reported on a C-SPAN videotape from the previous April that showed Biden berating a heckler at a campaign stop. While lashing out at the audience member, Biden defended his academic credentials by inflating them, in a fashion that was notably unbecoming and petty for a presidential candidate.

Bob-

I don't click your youtube videos. Say what you need to say in your own words.

"If you see a woman being raped and do nothing when you have the power to stop it---you are an advocate of rape."

No you aren't. Allowing something to occur is not the same as advocating something. Sorry. Learn the english language then come back.

Joe

If you see a woman being raped and do nothing when you have the power to stop it---you are an advocate of rape.

If you are the mayor of a town and know that it charges for rape kits and do nothing when you have the power to stop it---you are an advocate of charging for rape kits.

That you can't make that simple connection is sad.

Why can't you click on a youtube video? Is youtube evil or are you afraid of the truth. The video goes to McCains words.

It shows McCain saying Palin sold the plane on Ebay and made a profit.

I guess somebody CGI'd that in there though.

I don't give a shit what McCain said. That has nothing to do with whether Palin lied about selling the plane on ebay, which she didn't.

I already explained to you that knowingly letting something happen is not the same as advocating it. If your only response is to repeat your original nonsense that has been proven to be false, I guess we are done here.

Seeing a woman get raped and doing nothing about it is not "allowing it to occur", it is actively encouraging such action by not using the power you have to stop it.

That you can't make such a simple connection is sad. Probably poor parenting or dietary shortcomings as a child.

But if Biden believed in the ideals articulated it's not as if he was plagiarizing a term paper for academic credit. He was just echoing another person's passioned words to endorse essentially the same ideals.

(When a politician echoes the Gospels or ML King Jr. or Abe Lincoln, do we get all riled up about that as "plagiarism? Of course not!)

#31 | Posted by townncountry at 2008-09-18 02:30 PM | Reply

Uhhhh, he did that too. Did you not read the article?

So we can put TownandCountry in the "Biden is a piece of shit" box.

Seeing a woman get raped and doing nothing about it is not "allowing it to occur", it is actively encouraging such action by not using the power you have to stop it.

That you can't make such a simple connection is sad. Probably poor parenting or dietary shortcomings as a child.

#43 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2008-09-18 03:40 PM | Reply

You are an idiot. Go buy a dictionary or use the free online version dummy.

Joe

Half a truth is a lie as far as I'm concerned. If your morals are a little more liberal, that's fine. Facts are as far as Palin was concerned and all she said was--I put it on Ebay--Then McCain said she sold it on Ebay and made a profit.. But why just focus on this one little issue that you just got your punk ass kicked over--why not look at the over all pattern again.

Palin bought the tanning bed--when?

Palin kept the money for the Bridge to Nowhere ---when?

Palin used her power to attack a private citizen---when?

McCain lied about Palin selling that plane on Ebay---when?

McCain lied about Palin making a profit on the sale of that plane---when?

Palin lied about cooperating with the Troopergate investigation---when?

Palin fought against the Troopergate investigation---when?

Palin charged the state per diem for living in her own house---when?

Palin advocated charging rape victims for their rape kits---when?

Yeah--that's your team. I'll take the plagiarist.

Bob-

That's not my team. Barr/Root is my team. I don't know why you think that just because someone tells you how big a moron you are that they must be voting for McCain.

He is certifiably crazy. I'd love to throw a cup of scalding hot coffee on one of his cats...

The important thing to note here is that you are doing everything within your power to avoid admitting that Joe Biden is a plagiarizing moron who lied to supporters about his own life story. You are also failing to acknowledge the suspicious circumstances surrounding his support for a law that directly benefited his son's client, whether there is proof of an "official meeting" between him and his son or not (are we to assume he never talks to his son just because he claims not to ever meet with lobbyists?). Just keep deflecting. I'm sure it makes you feel better inside.

We have talked about Palin's shortcomings at length on this site. This particular thread is about Joe Biden, but much like the other Democrat sheep, Bob can't get over his obsession with Palin. What a fucking loser.

You are an idiot. Go buy a dictionary or use the free online version dummy.

#45 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2008-09-18 03:41 PM | Reply

If I was an idiot--what good would an online dictionary do?

I bet your advice to a blind man would be to get some glasses.

moron.

What are the chances that Bob's caregiver is sitting in a chair near him and that she's been dead for over a decade? Even so, he probably still argues with her and yells at her if his tater-tots are too hot.

So, sure, its a bit bush to give a speech that somebody else wrote. But if Biden believed in the ideals articulated it's not as if he was plagiarizing a term paper for academic credit. He was just echoing another person's passioned words to endorse essentially the same ideals.

* * * * *

Wow. Just wow.
Sometimes kids plagiarize because they think, "I can't possibly word it any better than THAT, and hopefully my professor won't notice that every paper, essay, and exam I've turned in before this is very pedestrian in comparison."

Others do it because they were up late the night before drinking, woke up with half an hour to throw together a POS which will make up half their grade, and they transcribe enormous blocks of copied text, hoping their professor won't notice.

Hmmmm. I wonder which one little Joey was.

I bet your advice to a blind man would be to get some glasses.

moron.

#52 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2008-09-18 03:51 PM | Reply

That's nothing you punk. I repeatedly told a cripple to "stand up" in front of a mortified audience!
-Joe Biden

Joe

All you got on Biden is some plagiarism from 20 years ago and you have the gall to call others losers. Like I said---that's your team. Suck it.

"We have talked about Palin's shortcomings at length on this site. "

Nobody ever heard of Palin 3 weeks ago, dummy. That's why. Biden's been around forever.

That's nothing you punk. I repeatedly told a cripple to "stand up" in front of a mortified audience!
-Joe Biden

#55 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2008-09-18 03:53 PM | Reply |

Yeah, well I busted a blind guy for wearing sunglasses inside.
-George Bush

that rules.

"All you got on Biden is some plagiarism from 20 years ago"

I have posted other stories about Biden too. The fact that you are too much of a sheep to notice is not my problem.

Joe

Did the action of these stories occur in this century or the last?

Well, last week he exhorted the lame to walk. And few months ago he noted how unusual it was for a black man to be clean and articulate.

And frankly, Joe's comment above was a good one. If Biden's college days are off limits, then Palin's and McCain's should be also. And if you don't want to hold Biden accountable for things he did 20 years ago in the 1988 presidential race, you have to give McCain a pass for his indiscretions during the 1970's. Fair's fair, eh?

Fair's fair, eh?

Level playing fields are something a lot of DRers do not desire.

"Did the action of these stories occur in this century or the last?"

Is that the new standard? I guess we can forget about anything Palin did before the year 2000 as well. Let me know when you're done making the rules up as you go along.

But, to answer your question, yes, Biden pushed for a law that benefited his lobbyist son's clients in this century.

Buffalo Bob,

Don't need to go back thirty years on Biden since he is a chronic liar.

I know I am repeating myself but I can't help it. Whenever I see one of these Ultra Radicals hold Hairplugs for Men up as an example of what a GOOD VP should be I have to repeat it again since the following is what they want as VP -

He lied about how his wife and child died... the Truck driver was not "drunk", "speeding" or driving a truck with "failed brakes"...

In 2007 at the University of Iowa Biden said "Let me tell you a little story. I got elected when I was 29, and I got elected November the 7th. And on Dec. 18 of that year, my wife and three kids were Christmas shopping for a Christmas tree. A tractor-trailer, a guy who allegedly -- and I never pursued it -- drank his lunch instead of eating his lunch, broadsided my family and killed my wife instantly, and killed my daughter instantly, and hospitalized my two sons, with what were thought to be at the time permanent, fundamental injuries."

In 2001 "It was an errant driver who stopped to drink instead of drive and hit a tractor-trailer, hit my children and my wife and killed them," Biden said, according to a transcript archived on his Senate Web site.

"The rumor about alcohol being involved by either party, especially the truck driver, is incorrect," said Jerome O. Herlihy, a Delaware Superior Court judge who was chief deputy attorney general and worked with crash investigators in 1972.

"If it were some part of a cause of the accident, there would have been a charge, simply because if you're driving under the influence and kill someone in the process -- whether it's the wife of a U.S. senator or anybody else -- there's going to be a charge," he said.

Herlihy said investigators discussed several possible causes for the crash, including that Biden's first wife, Neilia, turned her head and didn't see the oncoming truck as she exited the intersection of Limestone and Valley roads on Dec. 18, 1972.

Two days after the crash, Herlihy, a neighbor of the Bidens in the late 1960s who still considers the senator "a friend," told the paper that there was NO EVIDENCE that Dunn "was speeding, drinking or driving a truck with faulty brakes." No criminal charges related to the crash were ever filed against Dunn, who lived in North East, Md.

Yet shameless Joe Biden uses his own wife and child's death to further his own political career while slandering the truck driver and his family in the process.

What is even worse about Biden's bold-faced lies is that he PERSONALLY wrote to the Truck Driver's family and told THEM he bears no animosity toward their father or his family. Of course not, because they were innocent victims just as his family was... except when he can score political points by lying about the event.

So we are not talking about 30 years ago or when Biden was a youth in college. We are talking about his disparagement of a man who is no longer alive to defend himself only ONE YEAR AGO.

So how old does dirt need to be before it is forgotten? Certainly not only ONE YEAR AGO, for sure since the Palin attacks are about events that happened more than a year ago in some instances.

Biden pushed for a law that benefited his lobbyist son's clients in this century.

#65 | Posted by JOE at 2008-09-18 04:40 PM | Reply | Flag

What was the law and where is your evidence that Bidens son had anything to do with it?

RIR

I'm not giving Biden a pass on anything. I'm saying McCains and Palins lies are much more recent and have more bearing on their charaters. Biden has been clean for the last 20 years--Palin and McCian are still addicted.

The topic of this thread is Bidens plagiarism should not be forgotten---it isn't. But it should be put in context as to what he has done with his life the last twenty years, and the context of what McCain and Palin have done in the last two months.

Let's see--is Biden fighting to have a board of review overturn his plagiarism---or is Palin fighting against an investigation of Troopergate? Which is more relevant? Do you think Palin would run a more open government or would she be prone to secret meetings and vendettas using the IRS and FBI for intimidation?

In face of the bald faced lies told by McCain over trivial subjects, do you really believe he will be honest with you on subjects that count?

Theshyguy

Biden used his dead wife and child to get some votes. Despicable--but no one was hurt, and anyone who votes for someone because they lost their family to a drunk driver is stupid anyway.

So we have Biden who is a plagiarist and a liar about his family being killed by a drunk driver.

I'll still take him over Rocky and Mooseburger.

Palin bought the tanning bed--when?

Palin kept the money for the Bridge to Nowhere ---when?

Palin used her power to attack a private citizen---when?

McCain lied about Palin selling that plane on Ebay---when?

McCain lied about Palin making a profit on the sale of that plane---when?

Palin lied about cooperating with the Troopergate investigation---when?

Palin fought against the Troopergate investigation---when?

Palin charged the state per diem for living in her own house---when?

Palin advocated charging rape victims for their rape kits---when?

I'm not giving Biden a pass on anything. I'm saying McCains and Palins lies are much more recent and have more bearing on their charaters.
* * * *

Maybe you're right. So what do you do about Biden's lies as recently as 2001 about the circumstances involving his wife's death?

Methinks that were Biden a righty, you wouldn't be nearly as forgiving.

Palin bought the tanning bed--

Palin bought a *gasp* tanning bed?!? Someone get a rope!

So, bOoB -- IOW you are defending Biden, a thief? Sounds like something you would do.

"What was the law and where is your evidence that Bidens son had anything to do with it?"

The law was the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act of 2005. MBNA was one of its major supporters, and they paid Biden's son $100,000 per year during the time Joe Biden was pushing for the law to be passed. Do some reading then come back when you aren't a moron.

Joe

Where is your evidence that Bidens son had anything to do with Bidens vote?

Can you FRAKING READ?

Methinks that were Biden a righty, you wouldn't be nearly as forgiving.

#70 | Posted by rightisright at 2008-09-18 05:25 PM | Reply

Forgiving? Can you FRAKING READ? I said he was a plagiarist and he lied about his family being killed by a drunk driver. Where is the forgiving there?

Now what about palin. I see only undying support for her from you. I see no admittance of her wrongdoing in Troopergate or her trying to mislead the country with her statement about the plane on Ebay--or McCains outright lying that she sold the plane on Ebay and made a profit.

I see no acknowledgement from you that for palin to keep the money for the Bridge to nowhere and claim she's against earmarks is an outright lie.
Now tell me how much Bidens plagiarism cost the United Staes, and how much his lies about the drunk driver killing his family cost the taxpayer.

Then compare it to losing 600,000 on a plane to a contributor to your party.

Come on---tell me how Palin is much better than Biden and has never done anything wrong. Spit is out you partisan POS.

;-)

...people just don't give a shit anymore - not about the Biden story, but about cheating/lying in general. -- Taxman

That's definitely true of today's students -- something like 70% of them admit they have cheated in school. Most of the older people I talk to, though, are shocked by this.

...sure, its a bit bush to give a speech that somebody else wrote. But if Biden believed in the ideals articulated it's not as if he was plagiarizing a term paper for academic credit. -- Towncountry

It wasn't about ideals; his plagiarism included stealing a biography that wasn't his own. He tried to tell people he was the first in his family to go to college, and told stories about a non-existent ancestor who spent 12 hours a day in the coal mines and then played football.

Buffalo Bob, Part One -
Palin bought the tanning bed--when?
Who cares when? She bought it with her own money. I.m sure you will respond with the per deim argument BUT, you won't mention that she has a right to that per deim under Alaska Law. You SURELY won't mention she also has a right to over $4,000 in per deim for her children which she NEVER CLAIMED.
Why AK works this way is their business. They made the laws and she is following them. She isn't taking every dollar that the per deim law allows her, which is unusal for any politician or anyone else. I know when I worked I was able to drive a NEW Licoln Mark VII every two years thanks to my company's per deim and milage reimbursements.
That doesn't make me a thief, since in doing this I SAVED the company money by driving to job sites on my personal time insread of flying which would have cost them 10 times as much.

Palin kept the money for the Bridge to Nowhere ---when?
Doesn't matter. Earmarks are monies allocated to states for their use. All an earmark does is to let a SENATOR decide how that Federal money will be SPENT. No earmar, the state still gets the money... only the State Governmebt gets to decide how it is spent instead of Senators and congressional reps.

Palin used her power to attack a private citizen---when?
Who was this private citizen you accuse her of "attacking" and what attack did she make on this person? Details please. I can say anyone attacked anyone without giving people facts... doesn't make it true.

Phoenix

You are permitted to link on this blog. Try it sometime.

Buffalo Bob, Part Two -
McCain lied about Palin selling that plane on Ebay---when?
Oh, if McCain makes a misstatement it is a LIE but if NOBama makes one it is a misstatement. Examples: USA has 57 states, misstatement or lie?
My muslim religion, a mis or a LIE?
I didn't vote to murder live babies in my committee, a mis or a LIE?
I could go on for days but you will never get the message since your bias gets in the way of reason.

McCain lied about Palin making a profit on the sale of that plane---when?
She DID make a PROFIT on the sale of the plane. I already extensively detailed this FACT as opposed to you listing Democratic talking points that are outright lies. Go back and look.
Summary is: She didn't buy a jet that hasn't been manufactured for 20 years now, the previous Gov did.
The jet has a value of less than $1.9 million and yet she sold AK's for $2.1 milion after using it for several years. With depreciation, it was probably worth between $1.4 and $1.7 million but I will give you the maximum worth of $1.9 = PROFIT of $200,000. Then the cost of operation of that jet averages $375,000 a year for fuel and mtce alone. Not the cost of the pilot. That is another $750,000 savings for the people of AK PLUS the pilot costs.

Palin lied about cooperating with the Troopergate investigation---when?
She agreed to cooperate UNTIL the Democrat on the committee made a statement that he had an "October surprise" and they hired an Obama robot as the potential prosecuting attorney, turning it from an investigation into a witchhunt ny Obama operatives.

Buffalo Bob, Part Three -
Palin fought against the Troopergate investigation---when?
Never until the above incedents.
The whole "Troopergate" investigation is a farce since the supposed "victim" wrote himself that she NEVER tried to influence him to fire her ex-brother-in-law. He, on the other hand, was suspended for 10 days (reduced to five after the police union stepped in) for the actions he took such as Tasering his 10 year old step son and being drunk while driving a police cruiser ON DUTY. Either of these violations would have gotten him fired from almost ANY police department in this nation.

Palin charged the state per diem for living in her own house---when?
As long as she was allowed to by LAW since her place of employment is the state capital yet she worked a lot of the time out of her home. The total amount of per deim is about what the Governor of my state costs the taxpayers for THREE days of work since he uses State Planes to commute between Springfield and Chicago because he wants to "sleep at home". So he makes them fly him to Springfield, works about five hourse and then flys home again EVERY DAY. I don't know if he is paid a per deim because the state doesn't publish that information. OS: He is a Democrat.

Palin advocated charging rape victims for their rape kits---when?
Fnally one that I agree with, assuming it is even true. You, as usual, provide no documentation of this supposed fact. If it is true, it is wrong of her.

Phoenix

You are permitted to link on this blog. Try it sometime. -- BBob

I think my permission to link is superseded by your permission to read. From the article:

But the even greater sin was to borrow biographical facts from Kinnock that, although true about Kinnock, didn't apply to Biden. Unlike Kinnock, Biden wasn't the first person in his family history to attend college, as he asserted; nor were his ancestors coal miners, as he claimed when he used Kinnock's words. Once exposed, Biden's campaign team managed to come up with a great-grandfather who had been a mining engineer, but he hardly fit the candidate's description of one who "would come up [from the mines] after 12 hours and play football."

Phoenix

You are permitted to link on this blog. Try it sometime.

#78 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2008-09-18 06:32 PM

Don't be insulted, Phoenix.

Just onsider yourself lucky BuffaloBob didn't tell you to fuck off forever
and ever and ever and never talk to him again. (grin)

Oh wait, I forgot to add "please" to "fuck off forever and ever....." lol

My #82 -- onsider = consider

Don't be insulted, Phoenix. -- CalifChris

Hi Chris!

Just for the record, my reluctance to read the articles to BBob in the future has nothing to do with being insulted. ;-)

Hey Phoenix,

I was more teasing BuffaloBob than anything else 'cause that's what he told me
to do -- "please fuck off forever" into cyberspace hahaha.

...people just don't give a shit anymore - not about the Biden story, but about cheating/lying in general. -- Taxman

That's definitely true of today's students -- something like 70% of them admit they have cheated in school. Most of the older people I talk to, though, are shocked by this.

...sure, its a bit bush to give a speech that somebody else wrote. But if Biden believed in the ideals articulated it's not as if he was plagiarizing a term paper for academic credit. -- Towncountry

It wasn't about ideals; his plagiarism included stealing a biography that wasn't his own. He tried to tell people he was the first in his family to go to college, and told stories about a non-existent ancestor who spent 12 hours a day in the coal mines and then played football.

It is worse than that. It is Identity Theft. He tried to convince people he came from a humble background when he didn't.

His Great-Grandfather was in the PA legislature. His Grandfather was rich. His Father was rich but lost it all.
Nobody in his family ever worked in a coal mine or any other kind of mine except perhaps to design it since many of them were structrual engineers. His Grandfather, I believe, designed the street system of Scranton Pa, laying them out for the city. On his maternal side many of them were shoe makers, a tardesman's profession. That would be middle-class back then.
A number of his ancestors were college graduates, paticularly on his mother's side, yet he claimed to be the first. That isn't just a little lie but a slur against his own ancestors.

Yet people admire a man who has no scruples at all and denigrates his own ancestors for his own political gain?

So where do the lies end and the truth begin? What does anyone know about a man who has lied continuously throughout his life? Do you vote for an image or a person?

I don't like John McCain but you can see the horrers he has suffered during his life. We hear about the scrapper from Scranton but where are the scars? The only ones I see are from his hair plugs. I grew up in a rough neighborhood and bear the physical scars from that. Anyone who sees me can see them. Where are they on Beiden if he had such a tough childhood?

"The whole Troopergate investigation is a farce...."

Palin began it, so I guess it's her farce.

I was more teasing BuffaloBob than anything else 'cause that's what he told me
to do -- "please fuck off forever" into cyberspace hahaha. -- CalifChris

I imagine he's really hurt about that photo of Goatman you keep on your desk... ;-)

"Palin fight the Troopergate investigation---When?"

Now.

"Palin advocated rape kits for rape victims...."

That was the policy when she was mayor. All that's at issue is whether she knew it was policy when she was mayor.

Given small town politics often involves heated debates over things like speed bumps, I'd say she knew.

Phoenix

No, BBob felt I shouldn't have called him "Buffalonutjob" in a burst of frustration on my part so he told me to "please fuck off forever" and called me "two-faced" and I wanted an apology for the "two-faced" remark and he refused -- and not very gentlemanly of him if you ask me lol -- so I said I wouldn't "speak" to him again. btw -- this back and forth between us went on for about 50 posts over like 4 days!

IF I address him at all in the future it will be only as "Mr. BuffaloBob" (grin)

Meanwhile, you two go back to your debate.
But let me warn you, while you'll have a lot of fun debating BBob you will never, never, never, never get an admission from him that you are right and he was wrong! Fair warning.

So carry on....

Hey Chris,

Was joking. Actually assumed you were joking when you said you had that photo of Goat on your desk.

Sorry to hear BBob was so rude to you, whatever the circumstances.

Was joking. Actually assumed you were joking when you said you had
that photo of Goat on your desk.

???

I never said that 'cause I don't.

Besides, Phoenix, it'd be a waste of time (and desk space lol).
He's got a girlfriend in Texas.

I may be misremembering... I thought once you jokingly told Goatman that you were going to remove the picture of his hiney from your desk.

Maybe it was all a bad nightmare...

Theshyguy

Have you read anything in the last two months?

wow

First--I didn't bring up the tanning bed--I just threw that in there after Joe brought it up in the #18 post.

McCain lied about Palin selling that plane on Ebay---when?

I think my permission to link is superseded by your permission to read. From the article:

#81 | Posted by Phoenix at 2008-09-18 06:37 PM | Reply

The article doesn't tell me the source or the context--that's why links are good--as far as I know you wrote those words in a heroine stupor.

Buffalo Bob,
"Now tell me how much Bidens plagiarism cost the United Staes, and how much his lies about the drunk driver killing his family cost the taxpayer."

Well, his lies anout how his family died may have gotten him re-elected, nobody will ever know. The cost of that? Plenty, I'm sure.

The cost to the Truck Driver's family? Well if you were to listen to his one daughter, it may have ultimately cost him his life. She said that after the accident they almost never celebrated Christmas and her father was depressed about the event from when it happened until he died.

She is now fighting so that the history books, should Biden every be eleeted VP and ultimately gain the Presidency, not perpetuate the slur against her father for all time.

So his lies did hurt people, the family of the Truck Driver. Having been in accidents myself over the years, they are painful enough without being unfairly blamed for deaths because you were accused of being the cause due to either reckless of illegal actions.

So to say nobody was hurt by his lies is rediculous. People in his family were hurt and people in the Driver's family (he had seven children himself) were hurt despite his innocence.

Joe Biden pronounced a life sentence against a man for an accident that was ruled not to have been his fault and may have been Biden's wife's fault.

I know that if my wife and child were killed in an accident I might have felt just as Biden did until I received all of the facts of the accident. Once I did get the facts and realized that it wasn't the other person's fault, I wouldn't continue to torture that person's family for my own personal gain. But then that is me. I have a concience and believe myself to be an honorable man. I consider Joe Biden to be less than pond scum.
That isn't a political judgement, it is a personal one. There are very few politicians I admire and they are of all parties, not just one. If HRC were running for President I would be voting for her unless Biden were her VP choice. I don't like McCain but dispise Obama because of his politics. I would vote for Colin Powel but not Codi Rice. There are a couple of Dems I would vote for but none of them ran for President. I don't have a problem with Palin yet because nothing she has done comes close to the travesties that Obama and Biden have heaped upon us.
I have a scar on my right wrist that is a momento of the JFK parade down Madison St in Chicago yet I have also voted for Nixon, Carter, Reagan, George H W Bush, Clinton, Gore (which is really one of only two votes I am ashamed to admit, with the other bein Kerry) and will be voting for McCain as the lesser of two evils.
So you see, my voting record is really non-partisan. I vote for the best choice available.

Now everyone goes crazy over Clinton getting a BJ in the Oval office yet they say nothing about LBJ banging his scretary on the Oval Office desk, the Thousands of women JFK screwed all around the White House or the Saturday Night gang bangs from all three Kennedy brothers in the White House swimming pool.
Why does one Prsident's minor indiscretions bother all of these folks while Romanesque orgys by other Presidents are NEVER mentioned?

I may be misremembering... I thought once you jokingly told Goatman that you were going to remove the picture of his hiney from your desk.

Maybe it was all a bad nightmare...

#96 | Posted by Phoenix at 2008-09-18 07:24 PM

HAH! Now I remember what you're talking about.
It was that one thread where Goat posted his (now famous) "hiney" photo -- the one his girlfriend took of him walking into the ocean at the beach. When he posted it I said he had a "cute hiney" (he does too lol).

"...people just don't give a shit anymore - not about the Biden story, but about cheating/lying in general. -- Taxman"

That's definitely true of today's students -- something like 70% of them admit they have cheated in school. Most of the older people I talk to, though, are shocked by this.

This is a perfect example of a big problem with today's young people. They think that if it isn't something tangible that you can actually put in your pocket, it's OK to take it. If they see no problem with taking and freely distributing pirated music, software, and movies. (which of course is just as much stealing as if you lifted the original from the store) So what's wrong with stealing someone else's words? I am not surprised that todays young people see no wrong in plagarism.

When my son was living at home, I destroyed any copies of music, software, and movies he had that he did not own the original of. It was a constant source of contention in our house. He simply did not believe he was stealing anything because 'everyone' was doing it.

Phoenix

I can't believe we've spent five posts discussing Goatman's butt! lol!

whoops, speak of the devil!

Theshyguy

Your use of Bidens family to attack him 30 years later for political purposes is as sad as Biden doing it himself. Maybe Biden actually believed what he said---maybe he couldn't face the fact that the accident was his fault.

But you using their dead bodies for your political gain makes you a ghoul.

...the picture of his hiney from your desk.

You would not be able to fit that wide thing on a single computer screen. *grin*

Hi Goat -

You sort of have to start reading from BBob's post #78 on down thru my #103 in this thread to see how your hiney ended up as the topic in about 7 of them. hahaha.

The article doesn't tell me the source or the context--that's why links are good--as far as I know you wrote those words in a heroine stupor. -- BBob

Bob, sweetie, "the article" is linked on top of this page. You were supposed to read it before commenting.

But you don't have to accept Slate's version of the story. Here's an excerpt from the Huffington Post's coverage:

The Kinnock commercial, which was part of a Labor Party broadcast that many British viewers saw as an American-style advertisement, showed the Welshman saying at one point: "Why am I the first Kinnock in a thousand generations to be able to get to university? ... Was it because our predecessors were thick? ... Was it because they were weak, those people who could work eight hours underground [as coal miners] and come up and play football, weak? ... It was because there was no platform upon which they could stand."

Biden, in the Aug. 23 debate said: "Why is it that Joe Biden is the first in his family ever to go to a university? ... Is it because our fathers and mothers were not bright? Is it because I'm the first Biden in ... generations to get a college and a graduate degree that I was smarter than the rest? ... Was it that they didn't work hard, my ancestors who worked in the coal mines of Northeast Pennsylvania and would come up after 12 hours and play football for four hours? ... It's because they didn't have a platform upon which to stand."

But you using their dead bodies for your political gain makes you a ghoul.

LOL. bOoB-logic strikes again. Quoting a story about a dead person is using a dead person? Bizarre logic, to say the least.

I don't dare quote a story citing Obama's drug usage or that will make me a drug user according to bOoB-logic.

Yes--she bought a tanning bed--with her own money--where is the rope indeed..??

Next the SDS (Sarah Derangment Syndrome) folks will post a story that Sarah tore off the tags from the pillows and sofas--thatis reall cause for concern--since that is against the law..

Now for Biden--yes he made mistakes and he is quite cheap for charity on his taxes..

But for the debate watch fro Biden to throw out "misquotes" from Sarah--so is that misplagarizing?

Anyway--he will misquote her saying she said whatever his misquote is--and we'll just see if she catches the guy and throws it back.

So then we can all say he mis-plagarizes people..

And with troopergate--the fix is in with French who is an Obama supporter--confessed..

The whole thing has turned political and French is likely taking orders from the Obama attorneys sliming around AK.

If you read the emails the Monegan guy was insubordinate, went to DC behind her back and without authority to ask for earmarks for things she vetoed. Held meetings without her. He was doing the go around--people like that need to work somewhere else.

That' deserves to be fired and he was.. Not o