Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Thursday, September 18, 2008

Nicholas D. Kristoff: Are you capable of taking a perfectly good 158-year-old company and turning it into dust? If so, then you may not be earning up to your full potential. Last year, Richard Fuld, longtime chief of Lehman Brothers, earned $17,000 an hour to obliterate a firm.

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Are you capable of taking a perfectly good 158-year-old company and turning it into dust? If so, then you may not be earning up to your full potential. Last year, Richard Fuld, longtime chief of Lehman Brothers, earned $17,000 to obliterate a firm.

Why don't the stockholders of all these huge companies demand accountability and file a negligence lawsuit against these crooked CEOs? There was obvious fraud with the way so many of these CEOs ran their companies into the ground. I would also see to it their severance package didn't equal more than 10 cents.

Their "Golden Parachutes" should be changed to 10,000 pounds of Cast iron-with them strapped FIRMLY to the underside-then tossed from a cargo transport.

Why don't the stockholders of all these huge companies demand accountability and file a negligence lawsuit against these crooked CEOs?

Because the vast majority of stockholders of any corporation are insiders or institutional investors and they are all in bed together.

Ironic that the article appears in the New York Times, a business that is also being driven into the ground by circumstances and mismanagement.

Recognize that it was leftist imperatives including pressures exerted by ACORN, a group for which Obama worked and which he represented, that resulted in the end of realistic appraisals of creditworthiness of prospective borrowers and the requirement of viability of propert used as collateral.

The left provided for penalties for lending institutions that did not make questionable loans based on racial and other such goals rather than traditional criteria including a reasonable prospect for repayment of the obligations.

Of course, once the restraints were removed, the bright boys made use of the new rules to make the loans and reap the benefits. I wonder what high profits Lehman Brothers and others similarly situated made as they raked in the cash over the years, and distributed this windfall to participants in the wild party with its accompanying euphoria.

Probably not only Fuld, but all of the palyers fared well. Now they've taken their marbles and gone hom, while the legislators who at first compelled them to participate in this game of financial Russian roulette are now pointing the fingers of accusation away from themselves and at others.

Hey, look at the bright side. Look at the stock of housing that we have accumulated. This generation of material wealth to the detriment of financial stability was espoused by the New Deal brain trust and remains liberal economic theory today. The principles are set forth in such works as that of "brain trust" member Thurman Arnold in "The Folklore of Capitalism." This latest fiasco was New Deal financial policies in action. By the way, for the edification of those lacking historical information, "The New Deal" was the programs instituted by Democrat four term (1932-1945) President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, also known as FDR.

Say, did Fuld make as much per hour on the job as some athletes? Just wondering?

Don't forget that when he gets tired of sailing around the world on his yacht, he'll get another CEO gig just for the asking.

Sounds like a guy that needs a bailout alright.

Beats the shit out of the $7.50 you trolls earn at BK.

Because the vast majority of stockholders of any corporation are insiders or institutional investors and they are all in bed together.

#3 | Posted by 726

Have you ever tried to attend a board meeting with enough stock for them to listen to you? The only way to get them is with a 'class action' and then the bottom feeding lawyers get most of the money.

It happened to me and my $30k worth of stock ended up paying ne a couple hundred. BFD.

Unfortunately Chris, the "business judgment rule" shields most corporate officers from liability even when they make terribly stupid decisions, so long as they have some proof that they "did their homework." I don't know what the standard is as far as a lawsuit challenging his compensation, though you'd at least have to prove that he made more than others in his line of work.

"I thought a high profile job like that would pay more than a middle class salary."
John McSame

The CEO's package should be tied to their company stock so when it goes down they get jerked to the bottom by their package.

They make millions for screwing up and most every American worker pays the price.

The majority of AIG's losses were in foreign banks that wouldn't have hurt us at all if they went tits up.

Have you ever tried to attend a board meeting with enough stock for them to listen to you? The only way to get them is with a 'class action' and then the bottom feeding lawyers get most of the money.

For my investments, the shareholder meetings are out of town and not worth it to go. I just vote my shares, usually against all the board members and go on with my daily life.

If I am unhappy with the direction the company is taking I will vote with my wallet and either not invest or sell if I own.

Just like Home Depot. I am not happy with them lowering prices in a losing attempt to gain market share. I don't think it will work. They have not revamped their store image to compete with Lowe's like they planned to do.

The CEO's package should be tied to their company stock so when it goes down they get jerked to the bottom by their package.

They should be guaranteed to lowest salary in the company and the rest should be performance based.

But of course they would never do that, hard werk is well hard werk.

When these guys take a crap during the workday, do they have some flunky search it for diamonds?

I want to be a boss!


The problem is not the pay. The problem is moral. If I can make lot's of money for the company, then I have a value to the company.

The problem is that when our government and our culture makes it ok to break the law or to be unethical, and then reward the companies for that behavior.

When these guys take a crap during the workday, do they have some flunky search it for diamonds?

#15 | Posted by silver_ironist

Yes, they get a commission for everything they find.

www.govtrack.us

Well lookie lookie who authored that bill that might have stopped this kinda crap?

Who's name is that?

So what commite has killed it

banking.senate.gov

I'm lucky enough to get to vote against one of those idiots.

Well lookie lookie who authored that bill that might have stopped this kinda crap?



But how does this mesh with the RNC talking point that he has never sponsored any legislation?

"But how does this mesh with the RNC talking point that he has never sponsored any legislation?"

Who ever said that? I think the point is that he has never accomplished anything worthwhile in his time in the Senate - or in his 8+ years in the IL senate. Can you prove otherwise?

It's really easy and takes no courage at all to introduce legislation that you know full well has no chance of going anywhere and for which you have no senate coalition to show support.

The cynic in me says that its exactly what one would do if it was one's intention to run for president from the very beginning.

I think the lawyers that represent the shareholders when negotiating CEO employment contracts need to be held accountable in many cases.

Seems to me that a CEO contracts are very one sided. Why are there not clauses that invalidate golden parachutes in cases where the company performs horribly? There are all sorts of clauses that should be used to protect shareholders from the misdeeds of immoral/incompetent execs but somehow the lawyers who represent the shareholder when writing these contracts fail to cover their constituent's interests at all. Yet nobody seems to care.

17k an hour.I am sure he makes more in one hour than the majority of you make in a year. I bet that really pisses you people off.

anyone hear trump last night on larry king?

he says that a fortune can be made RIGHT now buying houses and stocks
is that true?

Buy low

"17k an hour.I am sure he makes more in one hour than the majority of you make in a year. I bet that really pisses you people off."

What concerns me, Gato Pato - indeed, what really pisses me off - is that this guy was making two thousand times what the guy sweeping the Lehman floor at night made. And the guy sweeping the floor at night probably would have done a better job with the company.

Now the Pato Gatos of the old DR stand on their heads trying to turn this to some partisan advance for McSame-McSarah. I DON'T think that will fly. Whether it's the biggies of Wall Street or our small town YMCA which must shut down by the end of the year, this is the Republicans' fault. herm

"I am sure he makes more in one hour than the majority of you make in a year."

Speak for yourself.

Any good coke smuggler makes more than that.
-The Cali Cartel

This is one of the few issues that the lefties happen to be right about. The idea that severance packages should be paid for failure, the idea that CEO's should be compensated for hitting short-term, but not long-term targets--is what has set up many of these firms for failure.

I'm the biggest get-Washington-out-of-our-
lives guy you'll ever find. But there needs to be smart oversight and regulation of financial markets. We've gotten none of it, from either party. I expect the libs not to understand markets, and to act accordingly. The Republicans have been a huge disappointment in this area, though. Shutting down the shortsale-on-uptick rule is a good example--absolutely stupid, and absolutely predictable. Allowing firms to lever up their balance sheets 30 times is another. The Community Reinvestment Act another still. And so on.

COMMUNIST China to possibly buy half of Morgan Stanley

Why not. Bush has sold the rest of our country's assets to COMMUNIST China and Bush has put us even deeper in their deby when he borrowed billions from COMMUNIST China to fund his war in Iraq -- the war he lied us into.

COMMUNIST China has no better friend then George W. Bush

China to possibly by half of Morgan Stanley

then = than

chris

the finaince guy on CNN just last night said that china buying that wouldnt be such a bad idea.....


and GOLD IS UP 9 % almost overnight as well as a lot of money put into moneymarket and other safer places.........isnt that SOME sort of good news after all of the other?

CORRECTION

the fortunes are made now comment was from suzy orman

trump talked about houses and gold

I don't think the fact that gold is up 9% is necessarily good news. I think it shows that people have less and less confidence on our money system and are choosing to invest in what they see as a more stable asset.

in

"I expect the libs not to understand markets, and to act accordingly. The Republicans have been a huge disappointment in this area, though."

I agree with the rest of what you said but this statement reads a bit on the ridiculous side. Party affiliation has nothing to do with ones knowledge of or ability to understand financial markets. That sort of partisan thinking helped create this mees. Having a D or an R after you name isn't a credential and never will be. Maybe its time to start judging potential leaders solely on merit. We may see better results.

yeah I see your point joe

but it did make me start looking through some places for some old rings and shit......

"Having a D or an R after you name isn't a credential and never will be. Maybe its time to start judging potential leaders solely on merit. We may see better results."

A D or an R is a pretty safe shortcut. I don't think that anyone whose concerns transcend his own pocketbook would put an R after his name. All other factors being equal, that is. herm

I say its a good idea to judge people on merit rather than party affiliation and Herm tells me I'm wrong.

Just.... astounding.

Sully, if you have some insight to which I'm not privy about Sarah and her consort having any "merit," I envy you and ask you to share it. Otherwise the R and the D might well be the best we have. My point remains is that no caring person would use the R label. herm

I don't think the fact that gold is up 9% is necessarily good news. I think it shows that people have less and less confidence on our money system and are choosing to invest in what they see as a more stable asset.

#34 | Posted by JOE


Ray proven right again.

"Sully, if you have some insight to which I'm not privy about Sarah and her consort having any "merit," I envy you and ask you to share it."

I have no idea why the fuck you think this pertains to anything I've said and I don't really care to find out. Your reality problems are not mine.

"Otherwise the R and the D might well be the best we have. My point remains is that no caring person would use the R label. herm"

The "best we have" would be to look at the individual and his or her record and stated policies and make a judgement from there. R's and D's are for lazy and stupid hacks. Unfortunately, most voters and hacks and that is why things won't get better anytime soon.



I disagree with all this regulation talk. Let the markets decide.

That includes when they fail.

"...Recognize that it was leftist imperatives including pressures exerted by ACORN, a group for which Obama worked and which he represented...Posted by Johnson...

Obama was a part of ACORN 20 years ago. Before it became anything close to an objectional group.

Now PHIL GRAHAM on the other hand....

YOU, SIR, CONTINUE TO BE A MORON!

Gosh, the way these republicans deflect, you think they didn't have control of the presidency or the congress or the judiciary or even Wall Street for the past 16 pf 20 years.

What a nerve!

"I disagree with all this regulation talk. Let the markets decide.


That includes when they fail."

The problem is that our politicians all talk like Adam Smith until wealthy investors start losing money. Then the markets can't be trusted to decide anything. Privatize the losses.

This is something so-called "conservatives" who act as apologists for the far-from-conservative GOP need to remember the next time they feel like crying about food stamps or welfare checks.

17K an hour?
Earnings? No way! All that bastard "earned"-was what he DIDN'T get...

Beaten about the head and shoulders with a 2" diameter, 24" long iron pipe-and a Colombian necktie!

Incompetence THAT massive isn't REALLY incompetence.
This guy set out to do this-so he could raid the company.


Lehman CEO Earned $17,000 an Hour

That's why Lehman brothers failed. If he was being paid $34,000 or even $51,000 per hour Lehman's would be doing fine. I blame the Board of Director's socialist tendencies for the collapse of Lehman Brothers.

Sully wants to judge people on merit, but if I ask if he has any undisclosed data on Sarah and pal having any, he blinks and says he doesn' know what the f--- I'm talking about. Typical. herm

Cabo- You probably make that much in a week hooking yourself in either Greenwich village or the Castro district. You love "grabbing your ankles" for a quick buck(fuck).

The New Deal and FDR? If you're going to go back that far why don't you track boom and bust administrations? Which was boom and which was bust? Track the debt under various administrations.

"the Board of Director's socialist tendencies"

How many CEOs, CFOs, COOs, BODs of these failing, monolithic companies are are democrats? Which political party and PACs have these business leaders contributed their money and support to? I'd bet they contributed to the party they felt best supported their business policies and interests. I doubt it was Clinton or Obama, but who know, maybe I'm wrong . . .

Seems to me that a CEO contracts are very one sided. Why are there not clauses that invalidate golden parachutes in cases where the company performs horribly?

because the Boards of Directors usually start/end up as CEOs elsewhere or on other Boards at some point, so they take care of the CEO so he can take care of them later. They get their per diems regardless of how the company is doing anywyas...

hell thats less than a rock, movie or sports "star" makes so whats the problem? how many goals has beckham scored for his 100M? its not like Obama comparing himself to God or anything...

Beats the shit out of the $7.50 you trolls earn at BK.

#8 | Posted by retnluvnit at 2008-09-18 09:59 AM | Reply | Flag:

I've noticed that you are constantly trying to insinuate that people who don't agree with you on politics must somehow be either A: living in their parents basements. B: unemployed or C: working min wage jobs.

It seems to me that someone like yourself who is retired (or is that retarded) should be out there enjoying their final years. I guess someone didn't plan for retirement very well. No need to be bitter at the rest of us for your shortcomings.

See, two can play that game.

"Sully wants to judge people on merit, but if I ask if he has any undisclosed data on Sarah and pal having any, he blinks and says he doesn' know what the f--- I'm talking about. Typical. herm"

Because I've never claimed that McCain or Palin are good candidates nor have I ever claimed to have any undisclosed info on them. So it was bizarre of you to ask me such a question when it has nothing to do with anything I said. It was moronic of you to ask me once but the above comment catapults you into whole new levels of stupidity.

Well at least we can credit herm for something.

Leave herm alone. He has one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel.
He's probably winded from all of that packing up and running away stuff too.

because the Boards of Directors usually start/end up as CEOs elsewhere or on other Boards at some point, so they take care of the CEO so he can take care of them later. They get their per diems regardless of how the company is doing anywyas...

#52 | Posted by northguy3 at 2008-09-18 03:38 PM |


I have to agree with Northy on this one. Of course he supports Obama who happens to have an advisors who....

At the top of the list we must place Franklin D. Raines, chairman and chief executive officer of Fannie Mae from 1998 to 2004. Raines, who served as director of the Office of Management and Budget under President Clinton, had previously worked at Fannie Mae as vice chairman. Before that, he worked on the Clinton transition team following the 1992 election. Before that, he was a general partner at Lazard Freres & Co. Raines, as the Wall Street Journal reported, was forced to leave Fannie Mae in 2004, when regulators discovered it had broken accounting rules "in an effort to conceal fluctuations in profit and hadn't maintained adequate risk controls." The New York Times reported two year ago that regulators "have said that of the $90 million paid to Mr. Raines from 1998 to 2003 at least $52 millionmore than halfwas tied to bonus targets that were reached by manipulating accounting." Raines agreed to a $24.7 million settlement with a federal regulator in exchange for charges being dropped, but he admitted no wrongdoing.

James A. Johnson, who ran Fannie Mae from 1991 to 1998, served as vice chairman from 1990 to 1991, and earlier worked as a managing director at Lehman Bros. and for Vice President Walter F. Mondale. He currently leads the American Friends of Bilderberg and made news earlier this summer when he had to resign as vice-presidential-candidate vetter for Barack Obama "as new details emerged about loans Mr. Johnson received from mortgage lender Countrywide Financial Corp.," according to the Wall Street Journal. In his 1997 profile of Johnson, "The Velvet Fist of Fannie Mae," by Richard W. Stevenson writes that Johnson "hires lobbyists from both sides of the political aislelast year the company had 36 registered lobbyists making its case in the hallways and hearing rooms of Congress. ... And Mr. Johnson has made Fannie Mae both a launching pad and a landing strip for officials moving in and out of politics and Government in Washington." According to the voluminous "Report of the Special Examination of Fannie Mae" by the Office of the Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (warning, extra large PDF!), Johnson earned nearly $21 million from Fannie Mae in 1998.

Franklin D. Raines, chairman and chief executive officer of Fannie Mae from 1998 to 2004.
Gee, only 4 years ago.
James A. Johnson, who ran Fannie Mae from 1991 to 1998,

Isn't that like a decade ago? The guy who deregulated the financial sector and created this disaster was Mcsame's economic guru until about 10 minutes ago. And his wife was on ENRONs Board until just before it went tits up OC.

And then we can talk about Carly and HP and Regulatin' John....

Isn't that like a decade ago?

So this post is a bunch of bull shit? Like the take care of them later?

because the Boards of Directors usually start/end up as CEOs elsewhere or on other Boards at some point, so they take care of the CEO so he can take care of them later. They get their per diems regardless of how the company is doing anywyas...

#52 | Posted by northguy3 at 2008-09-18 03:38 PM

And Lehman CEO contributed generously to Obama....

$17,000 an Hour -- Nice work if you can get it...

#44 | Posted by DUMPLING1 at 2008-09-18 01:20 PM

"...Recognize that it was leftist imperatives including pressures exerted by ACORN, a group for which Obama worked and which he represented...Posted by Johnson...

Obama was a part of ACORN 20 years ago. Before it became anything close to an objectional group.

Now PHIL GRAHAM on the other hand....

YOU, SIR, CONTINUE TO BE A MORON!

Gosh, the way these republicans deflect, you think they didn't have control of the presidency or the congress or the judiciary or even Wall Street for the past 16 pf 20 years.

What a nerve!


Such umbrage, dumpling.

It's usually a comity of perceived interests that brings us "programs," such as the Food Stamp program, where representatives of the farm states, and urban poor districts pursued their separate agendas to enact that program.

This debacle is not the result of either party acting alone. The financial institutions were subject to penalties and prevented from securing business unless they made loans that were marginal at best, including loans to such target groups as illegal immigrants, who purchased property without any down payment or verification of income. Urban blacks were in the same category with liberals fulminating because of redlining and denial of loans to unworthy credit risks. Since there was a preponderance of minorities who were bad credit risks, the hue and cry of "racism" and "discrimnination" was raised, and standards were abandoned. The entire process was corrupted for everyone.

Of course, there was a boom as construction surged to accommodate the new borrowers.

I don't exonerate the institutions or the investment banks. A friend of mine owned a couple of hundred million dollars of real property in which he had an equity approximating "zero." He was approached by a local stock brokerage firm that was urging him to use the essentially worthless holdings as a vehicle for selling shares as an IPO. The brokerage firm was aware that an offering would have been a scam. But that in no way deterred them. It is usual and customary practice in that industry to bilk the general public.

I am not exculpating the stock market and financial institution malfeasors, but rather suggesting that they are affiliated with both political parties, and those people use these entities as piggy banks. Ask yourself how Jamie Gorelick, second-in-command to Janet Reno in the Justice Department during the Clinton Administration (Ms Reno being a figurehead), garnered some $75 million through her activities with Fannie Mae.

Er, Gorelick's a Democrat. The political affiliations of these people just provide them with entry. And there has been enough wherewithal to go around and enrich the players on both sides of the aisle at the expense of the general public.

It is largely sham and pretense to generate support among the ideologues and obtain power. During the Vietnam Conflict, one of the most vociferous public protestors was the then Mayor of San Francisco, whose family was among the most greatly enriched of war profiteers, owning or controlling the most "bottoms" shipping goods to and from the war zone. Follow the money. Also, you've been around long enough to abandon the naivete.

The modern CEO should not get anything more or less than what the lowest salary individual gets.

The fact that their pay is so extensive should make them responsible for what the company does.

Where are the assassins when you need them?

Accommodate, exculpate, exonerate, ideologues, vociferous! It's a joy to see a neo-con use words of more than two syllables. If only the crap Johnson peddled were worth such words! herm

The solution is easy: If you don't like what a CEO makes, buy stock in the company. You will then have a say in what he makes. But just politics, you can't bitch if you don't vote.

You will then have a say in what he makes.

#66 | Posted by goatman

No, unless you can influence enough major shareholders or can afford to manipulate enough stock, to control the company, you won't have a say in what he makes.

yes, you will have a say. Just like you vote in November, you might not get what you want, but you will indeed have a say.

Damn. I though Goatman was joking with that moronic proposal. Guess not. Apparently we are supposed to buy stock in every corporation in America if we object to executive pay policies. Fucking brilliant.

Why should you object to what someone earns, nully? Are you some sort of control freak?

Goatman-
How much would you get paid if you fucked up and cost not only your company billions, but actually put my children in debt before they were even born?

So, I guess I'm a control freak too.

Go figure. Must be class envy...

How much would you get paid if...

Not much. But even if I did get paid a lot for fucking up, I don't see how that is anyone's business except those to whom I have to answer. You are not one of them, so why should you care?

In a democratic election you supposedly get one vote per person. In a corporation you get one vote per share. Theres a BIG difference. The average person is not going to have any say in a large publicly traded corporation. Why don't you go buy 100 shares of Wal-Mart and go see if you can effect change to Lee Scotts salary. Lots-O-Luck!

Why should you object to what someone earns,

Why should a CEO 'earn' $17,000.00 per hour while the shares of stock are rendered worthless?

Why should a CEO 'earn' $17,000.00 per hour while the shares of stock are rendered worthless?

Rephrase:

Why should a CEO 'earn' $17,000.00 per hour while my investment in the company he is managing is rendered worthless?

Not much. But even if I did get paid a lot for fucking up, I don't see how that is anyone's business except those to whom I have to answer. You are not one of them, so why should you care?

#72 | Posted by goatman at 2008-09-19 12:49 AM | Reply | Flag:

Because, in cases such as these, it doesn't just affect you, or your employer. It affects me.

How much will it cost the US (me, and my children) to fix the long deregulatory jihad the Republicans have waged over the last 20 years? Will we ever even recover? Lord knows we'll be paying off the bills whether we do or not.

Why should a CEO 'earn' $17,000.00 per hour while the shares of stock are rendered worthless?

Why should you care unless you own the stock? If you own the stock and you don't like the company's policies, including pay of execs -- divest yourself of it. Simple

How much will it cost the US...

I don't know. But you have moved on to another issue. Issue #1 is Executive salaries. You introduced Issue #2 -- federal policy vis-a-vis corporate bailouts or regulation.

Do you wish to discuss Issue #2 now?

You introduced Issue #2 -- federal policy vis-a-vis corporate bailouts or regulation.

Do you wish to discuss Issue #2 now?

#77 | Posted by goatman at 2008-09-19 12:58 AM | Reply | Flag:

Issue #2 has been subsumed by Issue #1, in case you vacation on the moon, and haven't read a newspaper in the last week.

Issue #2 has been subsumed by Issue #1,

Well, that's wrong. The government should stay out the business of running and bailing out corporations. (still issue #2 and only issure #2, btw)

Goatman-
I know you get my meaning, but I wasn't clear. Allow me to be more clear:

We are in the most serious threat of economic collapse in decades. It would be global, and it would be caused by Republican laissez-faire policies enacted with the complicity of too many Democrats.

Obscene CEO pay for running a corporation (and the pensions of millions) into the ground is a subset of this, but is not the central issue.

I want to be a CEO.

...and it would be caused by Republican laissez-faire policies...

So you are saying that the government should limit CEO salaries? I disagree, but you are entitled to your opinion, of course. I feel exec salaries should be decided by the shareholders, not the government.

Goatman-
re: The government should stay out the business of running and bailing out corporations. (still issue #2 and only issure #2, btw)

You think the problem is too much regulation?

As far as opposition to the bailouts are concerned (after years of Republican-led dereg led us to this place), I'm sure it sounds reasonable when Limbaugh says it. But when we owe our ass to China, and we are trying to avoid a whirlpool effect of not only national but global economic collapse, you sound like an idiot.

You think the problem is too much regulation?

It depends what kind of regulation. The government should regulate a corporation insofar as welfare of the public is concerned. E.G., the government should regulate the amount of lead in paint and rat droppings in cereal. They should not, however, regulate how the company is run as long as a safe product is produced or safe service is provided.

So you are saying that the government should limit CEO salaries? I disagree, but you are entitled to your opinion, of course. I feel exec salaries should be decided by the shareholders, not the government.

#82 | Posted by goatman at 2008-09-19 01:15 AM | Reply | Flag:

Jesus. Just take a look around you. CEO salaries are symptomatic, but not central. We're in some big trouble.

PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR SIMPLISTIC IDEOLOGICAL ASS AND TAKE A LOOK.

PLEASE.

Do You have any idea how much we've paid out to rescue organizations that would take us down if thwy went down over the last year? (Over 600 Billion). We'll be lucky if we get out from under it for under 2 trillion.

Seriously. Take a look around!

Goatman-
You clearly haven't so much as read a decent newspaper in the least week or so, so I'll get back to you later.

divest yourself of it. Simple

It's not always that simple. Many pensions and 401k's are invested in such things without the investors knowledge, and without the investors ability to extract themselves from these funds. Many of us use Mutual funds. Within those funds we may be invested in hundreds of different stocks. Even if the investor does have control, few of us have time to micro-manage stocks, and we therefore leave our investments in the trust of fund managers, with limited knowledge of what happens within the fund on a daily basis.

By your logic it may be most wise to not own stocks or shares in mutual funds, at all. Perhaps youre right. Maybe EVERYONE should sell out. Wouldn't that be good for the world economy?

I'm glad life is so 'simple' for you. I hope your collection of hubcaps pays off when you're ready to retire.

'night

Do You have any idea how much we've paid out to rescue organizations...

betelg. Again. Issue 2. I disagree with the bailouts of corporations. That is a completely separate issue of CEO salaries. Maybe if Uncle Sugar stopped bailing out these companies, they'd be run more responsibly.

You clearly haven't so much as read a decent newspaper in the least week or so, so I'll get back to you later.

You clearly are not reading what I am saying. Maybe when you get back later, you will. I hope so. I grow weary repeating myself

Many pensions and 401k's are invested in such things without the investors knowledge

Pensions, yes, 401Ks, not. But few companies offer pensions anyway and the people who work for the ones that do should not depend on them as history shows.

Everyone knows what is in their 401K and unless I'm mistaken, I believe legislation was passed after Enron that prohibits an employer from forcing an individual to keep his invenstments in particular securities.

By your logic it may be most wise to not own stocks or shares in mutual funds

???

How did you arrive at this odd leap of logic? I said sell the stocks that you don't agree with their policies, including exec salaries. Or are you suggesting that all executive salaries are exorbitant? If so, you are wrong. Ben and Jerry's comes to my mind immediately as a corporation with relatively low paid execs.

BTW, I don't collect hubcaps. I guess you say that because you think I sold all my stock of companies with high paid execs. I never said that. I don't care what an exec makes as long as my stocks are healthy.

"Maybe if Uncle Sugar stopped bailing out these companies, they'd be run more responsibly."

That's part of it.

And if CEO contracts had some kind of accountability built in they'd do a better job as well. Or at least they wouldn't become rich while ruining things.

The problem with CEO's and corporations is the individual status.

Remove the status and force responsibility to the CEO's and the corrupt nature would be removed.

Hold those who are the decision makers responsible.

THE GOVERNMENT has no right to tell a corporation what they pay thier employees in cases like this.....but of course minimum wage is proper

HOWEVER........with that being said....if congress has to bail you out
THAT CHANGES ALL OF THAT>....
anyone agree with that????

"anyone agree with that????"

If it's too big to fail, it's too big to be unregulated.

have to go but I look forward to a little more explanation on your comment.......

again.......market going UP AND UP AND UP....

"again.......market going UP AND UP AND UP...."

BLT says he's outa here - before anyone can respond to the bullshit - on every thread. The fact is that the market remains lower than where Clinton left it eight years ago. Eight years a wash. herm


Which party encouraged and abetted the corruption, Rider? herm


#25 | Posted by herm at 2008-09-19 12:15 PM | Reply | Flag:


Well, we know what you're answer would be to the question you just asked Herm....and the answer to your question would be a subjective answer...subjective if you answered, subjective if I answered, subjective no matter who answered it. However, the question you did NOT ANSWER is an objective answer. Is that why you failed to answer it! HMMM HERM.


QUESTION REMAINS for ya' HERM.

Were you talking about someone not answering questions HERM. ROFLMAO.

Not much. But even if I did get paid a lot for fucking up, I don't see how that is anyone's business except those to whom I have to answer. You are not one of them, so why should you care?

#72 | Posted by goatman at 2008-09-19 12:49 AM | Reply | Flag:

Let's bring this argument back the Lehman CEO.

It's now ALL of our 'business' with the $85 billion dollar bailout. This is coming directly out of your pocket as a taxpayer

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