Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Monday, September 15, 2008

Sarah Palin's background in an Assemblies of God church is instructive into her background and motivations for public service.

Barack Obama's church background is briefly compared (as are McCain's and Biden's).

This is from the man who wrote "The Faith of Barack Obama," Stephen Mansfield.

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The Positives of Palins Pentecostalism.
12 September.

Among the new information Americans are having to process as they get to know Sarah Palin is that she is a Pentecostal. This, understandably, strikes fear into the heart of many a secularist and sends a nervous shudder up the spine of even her fellow Christians.

Pentecostals are, after all, Holy Rollers, pew jumpers, empty headed followers of crafty Elmer Gantrys and the surest evidence that religious excess survives in the modern world. This, of course, is the unflattering image most Americans have come to believe.

In fact, Pentecostalism has grown up while the world took little notice. Begun as a reaction to the modernism of the early 1900s, Pentecostalism was revivalistic, retreatist and often legalistic. Women took care to show no ankle or wrist and children were threatened with hell if they so much as attended a Saturday afternoon matinee. Pentecostals exacted a high price for holiness. In time, though, they matured.

Much of this was due to the leadership of Pentecostal evangelist Oral Roberts, who defied the Pentecostal fear of film by using movies to evangelize, defied the Pentecostal fear of education by starting a university, and defied the Pentecostal fear of other Christian denominations by calling all who believed in Jesus to swim in the waters of spiritual renewal. His ministry and university became a font of refreshing for religious movements as diverse as Charismatic Catholics, Renewal Episcopalians and the reactionary, hesitant Pentecostals of Roberts religious roots.

The Assembly of God denomination also matured during these years and became one of the great surviving movements of the Pentecostal era.

Sarah Palins experience provides a prism for the neo-Pentecostal experience. Her family attended their beloved A.O.G. church and drew from its deep well of biblical teaching, passionate worship, and eagerness to lovingly change the world. Sarah would have known believers of a deeply mystical cast, those who spoke in tongues while praying and energetic worshippers who occasionally shouted their praise in church. There was an emphasis on sacrificial generosity, on Christian fellowship across economic and ethnic lines and, of course, on missionary outreach.

Indeed, the event at which Palin spoke the words about Gods will in Iraq which have become so controversial was in fact a commissioning service for youth soon to be sent abroad. And it was this sense of social obligation that moved a young Sarah Palin to political service. This was far removed from Pentecostalisms retreatist roots but very much in tune with the new brand of socially relevant Pentecostalism which has become the norm today.

Among the four candidates for executive office the nation is now considering, only two are versed in the street level religious experiences many Americans know. John McCain lived in a high-church, military brand of Episcopalianism most of his life.

Joe Biden attended exclusive Catholic schools and has long been a lover of the rituals and liturgies that arise from his historic faith.

But Obama and Palin have both sat in churches where poor and rich worshipped alike, where religious passions spilled out in sometimes uncouth ways and in which the call of Jesus to serve the hurting took practical form. We should be glad that this is so. **It has made Obama the compassionate soul he has become.**

And Palins Pentecostalism has given her the common touch while also tethering her life and her politics to a sense of moral obligation to God. This should be a cause not of suspicion but of gratitude. Americans should honor Palins faith not only for the good it has done her but for the symbol she is of Pentecostalism stepping afresh on the global stage.

"Posted by kirk "

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA


home.comcast.net

There is definitely a working class and egalitarian ethic in historical pentecostalism. Women and racial minorities have held positions of leadership within it since its inception a century or so ago. Many other branches of protestantism can't say that.

It has been reported far and wide that Sarah Palin doesn't speak in tongues, but not directly from her.

You're antichrist poster link made me laugh, Zat.

Why is your standard operating procedure to mock or call any reference to religion names, or that poster a "liar" then run off and not respond?

Is it a "coachroach spirit"--the light comes on and you run?

If people who bitch incessantly about gays are closet homosexuals, does that mean that people who bitch incessantly about religious people are closet fundamentalists?

Sarah Palin quotes fascist writers, too.

www.huffingtonpost.com

Sarah Palin quotes fascist writers, too.

www.huffingtonpost.com

#7 | Posted by sitdown at 2008-09-15 12:06 PM | Reply

Sitdown,

That isn't going to get anywhere. In purely political terms, Palin was a brilliant choice. There is a tit-for-tat for every complaint against her. She's inexperienced? So is Obama. She quotes whackos? So does Obama (i.e., Rev. Wright). She associates with weirdos? So does Obama (i.e., Bill Ayers, et al).

Benign neglect would probably be the best approach to take in dealing with her.

Anton,
Did you just say "tit-for-tat" intentionally?

Does Joe Biden have a tatt?

Or do I misread you?

Her spiritual beliefs do not, in any way, entice me to believe she's anymore qualified to be in line for succession to the highest office in the land than any other individual. Some of the foulest, vindictive, mean-spirited individuals I've ever met in my life have been uber-Christians. I've seen that seemingly serene smile before. It was worn by a monster.

Did you just say "tit-for-tat" intentionally?

#9 | Posted by kirk at 2008-09-15 12:35 PM | Reply

I did, actually. I thought it was somewhat humorous given the persons involved. Palin obviously has tits and Biden's hair has been tattoed on his head.

"That isn't going to get anywhere. In purely political terms, Palin was a brilliant choice" - Anton.

I agree, Anton. I don't expect anything posted here (by me anyway) to "get anywhere" in the real world. The problem with a brilliant political choice like that of Palin is that it is so blatantly dishonest. Either McCain is now completely in the hands of others, or he is crazy. Either way he isn't fit to be President, nor is she fit to be Vice President.

So we WANT the 2010 state of the union address delivered in "tongues"? herm

Sitdown,

You're probably right. Unfortunately, the last 2 weeks of unncessary and, at times, dishonest attacks have boosted the chances of a McCain/Palin election.

Anton, you make-a me raugh.

Dutch,
I'm a Christian, and glad to be, and I'll agree with you that some Christians can be the biggest a-holes out there.

WHO hated Jesus the MOST? The religious leaders of the day. You won't find doubters, prostitutes and the treasonous hating and opposing Jesus, you'll find traditionalists and Bible-readers and "church folk" yelling "Crucufy Him!"

pentecostal
whatever

but that whole speaking in tounges thing

rediculous

its as stupid as hard core shi'ite beating themselves with knives

Maybe if more of them took up snake handling.

Ahh, yes Zatiochi, as the Emperor said in Star Wars episode 6 "Feeeeeeel the hatred!"

Hey, how did the whole "feeding Christians to the lions" thing work out?

"Feeeeeeel the hatred!"

Get over yourself, dipshit.

You aren't worth the trouble.

Hey, how did the whole "feeding Christians to the lions" thing work out?

#18 | Posted by kirk at 2008-09-15 04:51 PM | Reply

For the most part, not so well for the Christians. Generally, they were eaten.

If by "you aren't worth the trouble" you mean "I won't EVER answer your cogent points, but will simply insult and run away" you are completely on target.

See ya.

I'll pray that someday you'll post a pithy remark. 'Cause at this point it would require a miracle (that you don't believe is possible).

Right, Anton,

But the lion bait Christians were a small band of "heretics" and "atheists" (as Christians were called because they wouldn't worship the Roman Emperor as God) and now over a billion (or you name the number).

Something to ponder.

That's why I try to get dialogues going with antichrist types here, but alas, it always winds up with either name-calling or running away.

"antichrist types"

Yep. People who disagree with you are "antichrist types".

Has anyone googled "Obama is the antichrist" lately....?

This is fun!!!!

Yep. People who disagree with you are "antichrist types".#23 | Posted by BetelG at 2008-09-15 05:37 PM | Reply

BetelGeuse,

It's not that complicated really...

Those who pubicly express their opposition to, mock, disdain what Jesus stands for are "antichrist."

Those who disagree with me are "anti-Kirk."

But the lion bait Christians were a small band of "heretics" and "atheists" (as Christians were called because they wouldn't worship the Roman Emperor as God) and now over a billion (or you name the number).

Something to ponder.

How many muslims are there? How many hindus? Buddists? How many what the fuck other religions are there?

A lot of somebody's gotta be wrong. And remember, an atheist only disbalieves in only one more religion than the most sanctimonious person.

Those who disagree with me are "anti-Kirk."

The hubris is strong with this one.

Dutch, just trying to keep up.
When in Rome....

Context, dutchy, context

I hope somebody with integrity and balls asks Obama some pointy questions about his religious life.

....So that someone can get to asking Palin directly if she's a tongues-talker like the last big Pentecostal around the White House...
...Wait for it...
...John
Ashcroft.

They find positives to believing in an invisible friend who apparently makes people jump around speaking gibberish, and is obviously concerned both with Alaskan oil pipelines and making hundreds of thousands die in an Iraqi holy war?

The ridiculous part is most of these far-right christian types are amazingly unlike what the Bible describes their christ as being like. In fact, I find myself often more concerned with following the teachings of Jesus than many christians, who seem seem more concerned with old testament judgementalism and use of "god" to support their biases. Yet I'm so atheist I think all christians (as well as any other follower of an invisible friend, ie. muslims, hindus, jews, definitely mormons, wiccans, pagans, etc.) should all recieve psychological treatment akin to that given to schizophrenics. I realize that sounds uncharitable, but I mean it for the good of humanity. Religion has it's ideals, and it's moments of clarity and beauty, but you can have those without thinking there is a god or afterlife that will make everything right, when it won't necessarily be. Not to mention that those few moments of beauty and clarity exist on a framework that can be taken and misused for virtually every kind of crime against humanity imaginable.

Sorry, but there are no positives to catering to a system of beliefs based on being delusional.

Oh, and feeding christians to the lions was a move done by the Romans in the name of their religion, just like burning ignorant peasants as witches and taking their property was done by christians in the name of their religion. So I'd say it didn't work out that well, especially since the bullied so often end up as bullies themselves.


Those who pubicly express their opposition to, mock, disdain what Jesus stands for are "antichrist."

This would include the vast majority of Christians who claim to be followers of Jesus, but are all about some good ol' fashioned war?

What about those who are for the death penalty? Are they followers of Christ? Or did they decide to pick and choose which lessons Christ tried to teach while ignoring others?


"I'm a Christian, and glad to be, and I'll agree with you that some Christians can be the biggest a-holes out there.


WHO hated Jesus the MOST? The religious leaders of the day. You won't find doubters, prostitutes and the treasonous hating and opposing Jesus, you'll find traditionalists and Bible-readers and "church folk" yelling "Crucufy Him!" - KIRK

Kirk,
Jerks come in all stripes. Regarding your observation about religious leaders berating Christ... also the political leaders (often one in the same back in those days) hated Christ because Christ represented a threat to their power.

Such happens today. For those who claim Christ, they represent a challenge to those in power.

Jesus is a myth for idiots.

"This would include the vast majority of Christians who claim to be followers of Jesus, but are all about some good ol' fashioned war?

What about those who are for the death penalty? Are they followers of Christ? Or did they decide to pick and choose which lessons Christ tried to teach while ignoring others?" - AX

Going to disagree with you on some specifics, though I would agree that many times people do pick and choose what parts of the Bible are relevant - a buffet Christian, so to speak.

Death penalty is OK, per Scripture in my view... and that's not even taking into account the 'eye for an eye' verse from the Old Testament.

Beyond the 'render unto Ceasar what is Ceaser's' verse... consider Christ on the cross along with a couple criminals. Even though one of those two acknowledged Christ was God's Son... and asked Christ for forgiveness... Christ let him serve his earthly penalty.

Our "freedom" comes via Christ and a cleansing of sin. That doesn't mean we aren't to pay society for our lawbreaking. We are to pay our earthly penalty... it's just that even the worst of sinners has a chance at redemption. And that's a hard concept for us to come to grips with - how can such awful crimes be "forgiven" and we're clean.

What about those who are for the death penalty? Are they followers of Christ? Or did they decide to pick and choose which lessons Christ tried to teach while ignoring others?

#33 | Posted by Axiom at 2008-09-16 07:35 AM | Reply

Ax, you're now shoing off your vast ignorance of Scripture by simply parroting lines you've heard from other ignorant people.

Christ talked about many things, but they were all of a single theme. God's Word and Will are supreme.

You no doubt think that "love your neighbor" somehow teaches against the death penalty. Wrong. When a person becomes a criminal and steps out of the Will of God and commits murder, then Scripture charges the government with enforcement. That includes the death penalty.

You have no idea what you are talking about. You are just a simpleton, regurgitating stupidity spouted by other simpletons.

"Christ talked about many things"

Which is difficult for a mythological critter.

You're still an idiot, Vern.

BTW, speaking in tongues is not frothing at the mouth or rolling on the floor. It's more like push-ups: Spiritual calisthenics. It's explained very clearly in 1st Corinthians.

Vernon-
re:"When a person becomes a criminal and steps out of the Will of God and commits murder, then Scripture charges the government with enforcement. That includes the death penalty."

"Give to Caesar what is Caesar's", or "Let he who hath not sinned cast the first stone"...

I'll leave it to the centurions to figure out what Jesus' message was.

More names from Zatiochi, NO content.

Thanks for nothing!

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