.. THIS is important news. This should be catapulted to the front page immediately. Bravo. Some real progress in the Troubles.

The best news I've heard in a long time.

Damn good news.

Have to wonder, though, to what degree the "Ra" is still administering punishment beatings, etc., in the neighborhoods. (Same for the Loyalist terrorists.) In any event, a step in the right direction.

That said, I know people over there and they take this sort of news in a very restrained manner, ever fearful the whole sheebang could blow again.

Here's hoping not.

...seems like it's still more important to discuss Palin's vagina then it is to talk about the end of one of the most... interesting.. groups in the history of western Europe.

I was hoping we'd see some discussion, debates, stories.. but no.. a Republican woman has a vagina and does things with it! THAT is news!

Yet another religion-based terrorist organization. I wonder why we never invaded Northern Ireland since we are committed to fighting terrorists.

Erin Go Bragh!

I guess their day will never come

26+6=1

"Yet another religion-based terrorist organization."

Except they've never been "religion-based". Other than that you are spot on......

Orangemen of the world unite!!!!

Funny how the British supplied and operated Loyalists groups are still operating and refuse to hand in their weapons.

hmmm colony of the british seeking to get rid of foreign rule? Uses violence to fight tyranny?

why does that sound familiar?

seems to be just part of the course of human events one people attempting to dissolve the political bands that connected them to another.

..seems like it's still more important to discuss Palin's vagina then it is to talk about the end of one of the most... interesting.. groups in the history of western Europe.

Because the end of the IRA was negotiated politically?
I expect much of the street level IRA has morphed into the o'mafia and will carry on drugs, blackmail and hookers as usual.

Interesting story-remember how it would be the transit buses the IRA would set on fire first when rioting? Guess who ran the taxi companies?

When are we gonna invade Pais Vasco?
ETA must be stopped!

We should also invade Washington DC and stop the American terrorists from terrorizing the world!

"hmmm colony of the british"

I can't imagine anyboy in NI seeing it quite that way.

From the Republican and Nationalist points of view, wouldn't it be more akin to "occupied territory"?

From the Loyalist perspective, NI would be seen as "part of the UK," no?

"I can't imagine anyboy in NI..."

Or any girl, for that matter.

hmmm colony of the british seeking to get rid of foreign rule? Uses violence to fight tyranny?

why does that sound familiar?

seems to be just part of the course of human events one people attempting to dissolve the political bands that connected them to another.

#11 | Posted by truthhurts

The IRA attacked and killed indiscriminately - not just military personell, but also civilians, women, and children.

How exactly can you compare that to the American Revolution?

"The IRA attacked and killed indiscriminately - not just military personell, but also civilians, women, and children.

How exactly can you compare that to the American Revolution?"

Actually, the early IRA was a legitimate resistance movement. They are the reason the Republic of Ireland exists today.

They later became indiscriminate murderers and common drug dealers.

Except they've never been "religion-based". Other than that you are spot on......

#8 | Posted by Sully

I suggest you do a little review. It is completely about religion or should i say religious hatred. Read about the catholics. Read about the orangemen.

You ever been to ireland? I have, many times. Go up to northern ireland and tell them that catholics are a bunch of pussies and see what happens.

I'll wait..........

Actually, the early IRA was a legitimate resistance movement. They are the reason the Republic of Ireland exists today.

Right - but that was 90 years ago. I was referring to the movement of the last 35-40 years which was, as you say, a gang of "indiscriminate murderers and common drug dealers."

"Yet another religion-based terrorist organization."

Except they've never been "religion-based". Other than that you are spot on......

#8 | Posted by Sully at 2008-09-05 09:08 AM | Reply

Truth flag.

"I suggest you do a little review. It is completely about religion or should i say religious hatred. Read about the catholics. Read about the orangemen.

You ever been to ireland? I have, many times. Go up to northern ireland and tell them that catholics are a bunch of pussies and see what happens.

I'll wait.........."

Yes, one side is Catholic and one side is Protestant because the original Irish were Catholic and the people the Brits sent in to settle the north were Protestants. So it is possible to identify the sides by religion and if you talk bad about either religion in front of the wrong person, you are in trouble.

But their dispute is over national identity, not religion. The IRA does not use Catholocism as justification for their attacks. (on some level they probably realize this would be blasphemous as Christ was against violence).

So you are still wrong to say the IRA is a religious terrorists organization. They are not driven by their religious beliefs.

Go up to northern ireland and tell them that catholics are a bunch of pussies and see what happens.

I'll wait..........

#19 | Posted by goblinsrreal2 at 2008-09-05 10:57 AM | Reply

If I went to a typical street corner in St. Louis, Missouri and yelled out "All Catholics are pussies!" there would be a strong likelihood of my ass being kicked.

Does that mean the Cardinals are a religious-based baseball team?

Only if the cardinals start killing you because you are protestant.

It's nice to see this made it to the front page. It's good to see some discourse on a topic actually relevant to world events. I have a bias against the IRA which is entirely personal and my axe to grind with them disables me from seeing them clearly, so I think it's interesting to see the opinions of other Americans on the organization. Especially now that the criminal douchebags are done for. But, like any other overeager male, I can't stop myself from jumping the gun early, heh... so time to get publically irritated!

"I wonder why we never invaded Northern Ireland since we are committed to fighting terrorists." I often wondered that myself as well. Though I do see the humour and sarcasm inherent in "invading" Ireland, I still think that for all our pontificating about freedom and terrorism we should have stepped up and done _something_. At the very least send some SEAL teams to quietly take care of some key points.

"I expect much of the street level IRA has morphed into the o'mafia and will carry on drugs, blackmail and hookers as usual." What the hell.. that's, as you implied, what they've always been. But at least now they've been dissolved and it is a big blow to any "legitimacy" they once had.

"They later became indiscriminate murderers and common drug dealers." They were ALWAYS the former. To ensure freedom and revolution, you have to win the hearts and minds of the people. The IRA was never ever concerned with that. They've always been a bunch of greedy anarchists who wanted to blow things up and be in a "secret society".

"You ever been to ireland? I have, many times. Go up to northern ireland and tell them that catholics are a bunch of pussies and see what happens." I had an Irish comment who had a similar line. "I'd like tae see Dolores O'Riordan head up to Belfast an' tell everyone there it's all 'in their heads'." Yeah, she was missing the point of the song; but enough other people also were that she had right to be annoyed.

Today (well, two days ago when this first happened) the Isles took a big step forwards. Even if there's still going to be remnants to clean up.

The modern IRA grew up in rsponse to the indiscriminate murder of Catholics by British forces and Orange Order bigots. At one time you could be beaten to death for walking thru the wrong neighborhood. Catholics were like Negroes in Mississippi in 1925. Teh UK government allowed it.
The IRA then went in the wrong direction, to be sure, but it did not arise just because a bunch of Catholics decided to act like thugs. The Brits have always excelled in dividing people by class, nationality and religion. And then complaining that no one liked them.
When the UK government gave Catholics civil rights and started to protect them, the violence ceased.

an Irish COUSIN, not an Irish COMMENT. Damnable spellcheck.

"Actually, the early IRA was a legitimate resistance movement. They are the reason the Republic of Ireland exists today."

Like hell they were. You lose that title the first time you plant a bomb in a damned primary school. And that happened in 1921. They were useless bastards then, and nothing ever changed.

"I wonder why we never invaded Northern Ireland since we are committed to fighting terrorists." I often wondered that myself as well.

There was always too much support from Irish-Americans for the IRA to be considered anything but a patriotic liberation group. Can you imagine bin laden being an honorary member of an islamic Saint Patrick's Day parade in NYC like whatshisface was?

"The destruction of the World Trade Center in 2001 ended the IRAs flow of money from its US friends. "

"Like hell they were. You lose that title the first time you plant a bomb in a damned primary school. And that happened in 1921. They were useless bastards then, and nothing ever changed."

Well then it must take "useless bastards" to liberate a country that had been shit on and ruled by its more powerful neighbor for hundreds of years.

I don't know what incident you are talking about. But one renegade act doesn't define the whole movement. As a whole, they started out as a legitimate resistance to foreign oppression.

We should also invade Washington DC and stop the American terrorists from terrorizing the world!

What an infantile statement.

'"I wonder why we never invaded Northern Ireland since we are committed to fighting terrorists." I often wondered that myself as well. Though I do see the humour and sarcasm inherent in "invading" Ireland, I still think that for all our pontificating about freedom and terrorism we should have stepped up and done _something_. At the very least send some SEAL teams to quietly take care of some key points.'

You and the original poster who "wondered" about this are very confused.

The modern IRA is not a government backed terrorist group. So are you going to invade the UK (of which NI is a part) because they "shelter" the IRA? They desperately want the IRA gone.

Dead or dormant? Organizations like this are like a hydra. You have to keep killing it endlessly. And even then don't be too sure you have put it's lights out.

I don't know what incident you are talking about. But one renegade act doesn't define the whole movement. As a whole, they started out as a legitimate resistance to foreign oppression.

#31 | Posted by Sully at 2008-09-05 12:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

Many people idealize what the IRA once achieved but they fail to see HOW, exactly, they did it. May 25, 1921. They set a firebomb in the school next to the Commons House. IN A SCHOOL!! When the police and other officials in the Commons House stepped out to check on it, they slaughtered the would-be rescuers, and then descended and took the place over, eventually burning it down. It was a stupid move and a lot of them were caught, but they achieved their objective.

Over the charred bodies of innocent children they did, anyway.

The modern IRA is not a government backed terrorist group. So are you going to invade the UK (of which NI is a part) because they "shelter" the IRA? They desperately want the IRA gone.

#33 | Posted by Sully at 2008-09-05 12:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sorry, I wasn't clear: that was why I stated about the sarcasm. I sorta thought the original poster knew that as well. For exactly that reason, "Invasion" never would have achieved anything. I just found it increasingly sad we never sent a team to clean up what we could. America has always had a reputation for *coughs* shadow ops, so I wondered why IRA leaders never started disappearing.

"Many people idealize what the IRA once achieved but they fail to see HOW, exactly, they did it."

For the most part they achieved it by attacking military and government targets, which is much more than you can say about how the Brits took over in the first place.

"They set a firebomb in the school next to the Commons House. IN A SCHOOL!!"

Every report I've read says 100 IRA members stormed the Custom House and set it on fire.

The struggles underlying the Troubles have been going on for almost a millenium, and while disbanding of the Army Council is good news, the Provos are going to continue to fight as "rogue Republican splinter groups" for as long as the Unionists still act like thugs in Belfast.

Having family in both Roscommon and Belfast, most of my relatives believe that real peace will only come when the the Unionists agree to stand down as well.

"most of my relatives believe that real peace will only come when the the Unionists agree to stand down as well."

Yeah, I never understood how disarming one side is going to bring about peace.

IRELAND DIVIDED IS NEVER FREE

REMEMBER THE ALAMO!

Great news! So much sadness and death for so long.

Sully...you are spot on! Good to see someone knows truth from fiction!

As far as the IRA being a religious organization, absolutely false. Their objective has always been a united Ireland (26 + 6 = 1). So to compare them to Al Qaeda or Hammas or any other Islamic group is completely incorrect. Those groups want to establish a Muslim Caliphate or destroy Israel or both. The IRA did not call for the destruction of England (though they wouldn't have minded it I am sure), nor did they call for the creation of a Catholic state that everyone in the world should be a part of.

That being said, when they became a para-military organization in the 60's they became little different than any other terrorist group regardless of their stated goals.

That being said, when they became a para-military organization in the 60's they became little different than any other terrorist group regardless of their stated goals.

#43 | Posted by IrishInUSA

were they or were they not catholic? were there enemies protestant or not?

nor did they call for the creation of a Catholic state that everyone in the world should be a part of.

Apparently we have gone to war so every iraqi can become apart of a christian state. I find it humorous that you ignore the difference.

Are you that obtuse Goblin?

Their enemies were the over 10,000 British troops stationed in the north and the RUC. The real battle was over civil rights and fairness. Catholics were poor and heavily discriminated against in the North by the Protestants who were significantly wealthier and controlled ALL the positions of power.

If we follow your logic...

Were the Iraqis Arab or not? Well then this must be a war against Arabs and not against Radical Islam.

Glad you cleared that up for the class...

Did I miss a memo?

I am no fan of the Iraqi war (a distraction to say the least). However, when has the US EVER stated or even implied, overtly or covertly, that they are attempting to create a Christian state in the middle east? Show a link, a quote, something!

Seriously, if the US wanted to do that, they would have invaded Lebanon which has a fairly large Christian population. I do not know the number of Christians in Iraq, but I expect it is quite small.

Why do you care where the christian population is?

I do not care in the least, nor does the US Government as far as I can tell.

You are the one who made the statement that "we have gone to war so every iraqi can become apart of a christian state. I find it humorous that you ignore the difference."

I was simply pointing out how ridiculous that statement is, nothing more.

As a whole, they started out as a legitimate resistance to foreign oppression.

Then they became Nazi supporting terrorist gangsters.

"Actually, the early IRA was a legitimate resistance movement. They are the reason the Republic of Ireland exists today."

Like hell they were. You lose that title the first time you plant a bomb in a damned primary school. And that happened in 1921. They were useless bastards then, and nothing ever changed.

#28 | Posted by soheifox at 2008-09-05 12:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

Spoken by someone who doesn't know history.
Interesting fact is the British did nothing short of state sponsered genocide on the catholics for like 900 years and one little bomb erases that all.
Plus i don't think they targeted a school.
Will have to check on that.
If you have a link i'd like to see it.
I know i go off the handle but at least i try to put things in perspective.

rwd

"The modern IRA grew up in rsponse to the indiscriminate murder of Catholics by British forces and Orange Order bigots. At one time you could be beaten to death for walking thru the wrong neighborhood. Catholics were like Negroes in Mississippi in 1925. Teh UK government allowed it.
The IRA then went in the wrong direction, to be sure, but it did not arise just because a bunch of Catholics decided to act like thugs. The Brits have always excelled in dividing people by class, nationality and religion. And then complaining that no one liked them.
When the UK government gave Catholics civil rights and started to protect them, the violence ceased."

Bull fucking shit. This post is so wrong on so many levels that it is almost not worth responding to. However, the IRA was a bunch of cowards who thought that blowing up kids, horses, innocent civilians and eventually military was justified in their cause. I lost friends to these mother fuckers, I spent 14 years looking under my car before I got into it because of these mother fuckers. Despite the fact that 911 happened, I have yet to hear of a single American who says that they get down on their hands and knees (or uses a handy dandy mirror on a stick that the Navy issued us with) to check for bombs under their cars before they get in them. I have yet to see one Marine from round here not wear a t-shirt proclaiming his proud Marineness, I have yet to hear a single Marine lie about his profession in a bar because he might be targeted because of his profession. When the entire British armed forces had to change the design of its suitcases because a 16 year old recruit was shot to death by these bastards at a train station because his suitcase identified him as a member of the armed forces. Don't give me the "liberation" bullshit, these people were murderers pure and simple, they justified their murders with their "cause" but they were fucking murderers who just enjoyed killing people in the name of their "cause" they are no different than a serial killer, except they got to "tag" their kills with "freedom fighting" bullshit.

"Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen.
My father, he was Orange and me mother, she was Green."

#52 | Posted by Litlebritdifrnt at 2008-09-05 07:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

I guess we know what color you are.

The loyalists were just as bad as the Brits if not worse.
To bad you can't see it that way.
By the way are you Irish? Loyalist?
If so how far back does your history go.
Answer up, i'm curious.

rwd

#52. "Bull Fucking Shit" you say...

So, all the violence in NI had no cause other than an IRA with a psychotic penchant for violence against the innocent?

And the Orange Order? Was that some kind of Montessori School? What of their violence? Ever listen to Ian Paisley, a leader firmly stuck in the religious wars of the 17th Century. Discrimination in jobs? Violence--officially sanctioned--against Catholics? "A Protestant land for a Protestant People." And willing to kill any Catholic who bucked the system. Total lack of civil rights? B-Special Protestant police who were used extra-judicially against Catholics? July 14 riots and violence against Catholics? The complicity of the UK gov't in all the violence or injustice?

Oddly, folks like you never see the other side to the story. Or the root cause of the violence.

I don't condone what the IRA mutated into. And, as I said, when justice came to Northern Ireland, and it was no longer run as a Protestant Police State, with Catholics as second class citizens, having minimal to no rights then the vast majority of the violence stopped.

You ask any Catholic over 50 in NI what life used to be like.

rwd - I am no colour, I am a simple ex-british military person who's life was in danger every single day cause the IRA wanted to kill me. Simple really. Forgive me for not thinking kindly of someone who thought my death would make a political point. They were not freedom fighters, they were simply serial killers with a political asterisk after their names. They killed innocent people, innocent children, for their cause. They are no better or nor worse than the Al Quaida fucks. Anyone who doesn't think otherwise aught to live with it for a while, it's nice to blog from a nice safe living room in the US but try living with the threat of terrorism every day of your life, try getting down on your hands and knees every fucking day to check for bombs under your car. Then get back to me.

#56.

Catholics--unarmed civilians--in NI had to live with terrorist threats constantly, every day of their lives from 1921 to a point in relatively recent history.

Neither you, nor anyone else in the UK, whether in or out of government, gave one little hard turd. Why? Just a pack of Irish Catholic Untermenschen.

The treatment was completely outside of the British tradition of law and order and tolerated for Unionist votes in Parliament.

After UNARMED civil rights marchers were killed on Bloody Sunday, well, the victims fought back. A few people called BS on the Protestant police state.

If it was up to your ilk, they'd still be "Gaelic niggers" with no civil or economic rights.

I am sorry your life was in danger because of the despicable policies of your government, to whom Irish Catholics were just a bunch of Wogs, to be terrorized and killed at random.

The whole problem could have been solved long ago without gunfire, but there was no political will to do so.

Westminster let the problem fester because they just didn't give a shit--about neither Prod nor Taigue, if the truth be known.

Ever see the amused look of contempt on a REAL Englishman, when some Orange Order blowhard visits England and describes himself as "English", usually in one of them clatterin' South Armagh accents?

Quite.

What utter fucking bullshit you are spewing, how many bombings and murders were going on in Southern Ireland as a result of NI protestants? How many people were killed in Eire as a result of protestants? Name one. How many people were killed in Northern Ireland and in England as a result of the IRA? You have absolutely no comparison, none because the protestants never went south of the border and killed catholics, they never went across the Irish Sea and killed the English, the same cannot be said of the IRA. Don't fucking go there. I have been there, I have fucking lived it. Sit in your living room and give me shit about what went on but unless you have lived it you are simply spouting the hero bullshit that the IRA fed the United States for years until the United States wised up and realized that all the money they were sticking in those jars in the Irish Bars in New York was going to kill people.

The oppression and injustice the catholics in Ireland endured fo 900 years cannot possibly be described within this thread.
You have to read about it to understand what can only be described as a complete supression of a human being to the point of apathy to their condition.It runs along the lines of American slavery and apartheid in South Africa where they were not looked upon as human but as an object subject to their whim,namely in the form of labor.
Sinn Fien(ourselves alone) came about at the turn of the 19th century not so much as a political movement(which was forming) but a return to their identity of Gaelic heritage.Some 15 years later the IRA was formed as the militant part of the movement.The Irish stuggle is bigger then any one person.The history of the Irish people proves this point.

rwd

"Spoken by someone who doesn't know history.
Interesting fact is the British did nothing short of state sponsered genocide on the catholics for like 900 years and one little bomb erases that all.
Plus i don't think they targeted a school."

One little bomb wouldn't erase what they'd done, if it weren't for the fact that it were a repeated incident. It's all well and good to talk about 900 years of this or that, but none of it excuses the actions they continually took. I used to have free permission to give my Grandma Reba's phone number on this, she used to love setting blockheads like you straight. Unfortunately, she's been gone on for five years now (nothing dramatic.. she was just old). The story she woulda told you is a lovely one about how she herself managed to get out of the school, but her older sister didn't quite make it. How she got to hear her scream as she burned to death on the second floor of the building, and the IRA members attacked the rescuing force from behind, slaughtered nearly all of them, and then moved on to take the Commons House.

I'm sorry that you PERSONALLY can't find something on Wikipedia to back it up. Why don'tcha g'on ahead and call someone who lives there, and ask them to find the plaque dedicated to those children? It's less then 50 yards south from the southwest corner of the Commons House. Maybe pick up a book on the subject. Heck, I even remember citing Encylopaedia Brittanica on this exact subject and day for one of my finals in high school.

But I forget, none of these atrocities POSSIBLY coulda happened, because they were "Freedom Fighters" and even if they DID happen, then that's all excused by what they achieved! Vive la revolucion! Never mind that the average Irish person frankly didn't give a crap what either side wanted and just wanted to be left the hell alone. But it's not the workaday Joe who writes the history books, I guess. It's the zealous extremists who get that honour.

I'd love to give you my lovely cousin Jo's number so she could set you straight also, but those bastards took her from us as well. Not only did the cowardly sons of bitches put a bomb in a SHOPPING CENTER, but they made calls to the police warning where bombs would go off.... in such a way that the cops would gather people to the place the REAL bomb was, thus increasing the casualties even more.

But I suppose none of this matters, because they won some Pyrrhic fucking "freedom" from England because England didn't want them to slaughter any more of their own people.

Sinn Fein!

England OUT NOW!

My friend, Nobody here is excusing IRA violence or extremism or said it never happened, so I don't know why you keep insisting we do. But as I have said, you are very good at ignoring the violence and oppression against Catholics in NI. Not a shread of sympathy because you think of Catholics the way 19th Century Americans thought of Indians: To Be Exterminated, or kept in a position of serfs.

Whitehall, Westminster and the whole UK government let the mess go on until it exploded in violence. Today, all Irish-Americans are horrified by what the IRA did and have abandoned them. OK?

The violence of Orange Order thugs, including criminality, is well-documented; they are STILL armed. What of them? When Catholics were regularly assaulted in the name of King Billy on July 14, the British Army STOOD BY, as did the RUC's and let it happen. Over and over.

NI was not run in the way the Home Counties were, in some atmosphere of English decency and fair play.

The situation got out of control because the UK allowed it to. In the end they had to take over the corrupt and Protestant-dominated government of NI to ensure peace. What does that say?