I live in a beach community and would welcome them.

Offshore Windmills Are Seen as Energy Solution

Yeah, but they block the nice view! -- Rich Massachusetts Liberals

You guys ever seen a oil refinery up close or an oil drilling platform? I know Goatman has.

A windmill is beautiful and pristine clean compared to these monstrosities.

You can grind your corn with a gristmill,too!

If this was such a great idea, why doesn't Al Gore or T. Boner Pickass build them? Libs solution always involes tax payer money.

A windmill is beautiful and pristine clean compared to these monstrosities.

I passed a wind farm on a drive from Tucson to San Diego. HUGE fans all lined in a row sitting atop a ridge going on for as far as I could see. It looked awesome.

Obama could power at least 100 of these!

Libs solution always involes tax payer money.

You mean like the "solution" to Saddam Hussein? The one that was supposed to pay for itself?

So... Where do you get your electricity when the wind isn't blowing?

I know. It comes out of the wall socket. No problem.

more likely your asshole

"Libs solution always involes tax payer money."

How many billions in subsidies did the oil industry receive again????
Perhaps you want to rethink your knee jerk comment about libs.

There is always a stiff breeze near the shore. I am not sure what kind of wind speeds are required to spin one of this windmills, but I am willing to bet that once up and running they only stop spinning when they are shut down for maintenance.

"If this was such a great idea, why doesn't ... T. Boner Pickass build them? Libs solution always involes tax payer money."

Posted by fwthom

Ahem...

An extract from the PickensPlan website:

"An economic revival for rural America.

Developing wind power is an investment in rural America.

To witness the economic promise of wind energy, look no further than Sweetwater, Texas.

Sweetwater was typical of many small towns in middle-America. With a shortage of good jobs, the youth of Sweetwater were leaving in search of greater opportunities. And the town's population dropped from 12,000 to under 10,000.

When a large wind power facility was built outside of town, Sweetwater experienced a revival. New economic opportunity brought the town back to life and the population has grown back up to 12,000.

In the Texas panhandle, just north of Sweetwater, is the town of Pampa, where T. Boone Pickens' Mesa Power is currently building the largest wind farm in the world.

In addition to creating new construction and maintenance jobs, thousands of Americans will be employed to manufacture the turbines and blades. These are high skill jobs that pay on a scale comparable to aerospace jobs.

Plus, wind turbines don't interfere with farming and grazing, so they don't threaten food production or existing local economies."

Source:

Sounds great let's do it... along with keeping our tires inflated, offshore oil drilling, everyone switching to those flourescent bulbs, more nuclear plants...

If we take many different paths we can get there a hell of a lot faster...

I don't think wind energy is seen as a total solution but rather just a new source for energy. When there is no wind then either solar, traditional fossil fuels or nuclear could be used but we would be saving a high percentage of those traditional fuels.
In Denmark they are building a system where electric cars, plugged into the grid would be used to store electricity which is then "sold back" during peak hours.

What about all the seagulls and migratory birds that fly through those areas? This sounds like a horrible idea.

Well, not really. I'm sure some douchebag enviro will bring it up though. If this will work, then let somebody do it. Offshore energy exploration is currently banned, but when that ban ends on October 1st we should start to look at this as part of the solution along with oil. As long as there are no subsidies specifically given from our federal gov then I am all for it. This needs to be fully funded by the private sector. Our government needs to stop picking the winners and losers in the alternative energy race.

more likely your asshole

Posted by Shawn

"What about all the seagulls and migratory birds that fly through those areas? This sounds like a horrible idea."

We should create a Guest Migratory Bird Program for them so that we can control the flow and to make sure they don't mess up the burbines.

"""So... Where do you get your electricity when the wind isn't blowing?"""

sniper,

most wind farms are in areas where the wind is blowing just about every day and over-capacity is stored.

"What about all the seagulls and migratory birds that fly through those areas?"

Gee, I wonder how many die every year from oil spills??? From the pollution from burning fossil fuels???

"As long as there are no subsidies specifically given from our federal gov then I am all for it."

What about the ones already going to the oil industry??? ARe you against those too???

Subsidies could help defray some of the huge costs of developing and building wind generation facilities which would replace hundreds of billions of dollars worth of imported oil. I'd say subsidies would be a hell of a lot cheaper than more resource wars like Iraq, and plus, no one has to die.

Boy, Big Oil companies had better get the rights to that buried oil now or they might never get the opportunity to sell it to us if this Wind Power takes hold.

Oh.......wait a minute. Could that be why.........

AH-HA!!!!!!

"What about all the seagulls and migratory birds that fly through those areas? This sounds like a horrible idea."

If Jebus wants them to live, they'll fly around the windmills. If he was them smote, they'll be smoten.

So... Where do you get your electricity when the wind isn't blowing?

I know. It comes out of the wall socket. No problem.

Posted by Sniper

Are you really that stupid of a person or do you just play one on the internets?

Many, how big of a windmill are you going to retrofit to your car?

"everyone switching to those flourescent bulbs"

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

CFBs are a really, really bad idea. Sure, there is the immediate benefit of lower energy consumption. But that's is very shortsighted. A little research reveals that the manufacturing process for CFBs is complicated and energy intensive because of the additional electronics/circuitry that must be included to make them work. Add in the toxins for their creation and operation, such as mercury. Disposal is highly problematic because Joe Average Consumer is simply goiong to toss the CFB into the trash can when it no longer functions and not worry about mercury content of the CFBs. And if a CFB is broken in the home will Joe Average Consumer take the appropriate precautions to properly clean up what amounts to a mini toxic spill?

Incandescents, though they definitely consume more energy, are relatively benign to the environment and cost far less to manufacture and replace. If I break one, I don't need to call in HAZMAT for a consultation.

I didn't know that about CFBs. Law of unintended consequences again.

So... Where do you get your electricity when the wind isn't blowing?

I know. It comes out of the wall socket. No problem.

Posted by Sniper

Always in character flag.

Many, how big of a windmill are you going to retrofit to your car?

Posted by wisgod

The same size as your oil rig, idiot!

but I am willing to bet that once up and running they only stop spinning when they are shut down for maintenance.

Posted by schmanch

Correct, wind turbines are 400 feet tall, at 400' there is always enough wind to turn them.

MP,

How was the fishing trip?

We missed your input on a bigfoot thread late last week.

CFBs, ultimately, will phase out before wearing out. LEDs are the future.

Fishing was ok. I got 5 Steelhead, but I couldn't get my dad onto a fish.

I did mention my encounter briefly on a thread yesterday. Leaving it as I still can't explain what I saw that day.

Many, how big of a windmill are you going to retrofit to your car?
Posted by wisgod

YEAH!

What a Stupid Statement.

Everyone already knows that when Obama becomes president he is going to take your car away and give it to Al Qaeda!

Sincerely

Butch_cooking_goat_with_a_side
_of_vern

I still can't explain what I saw that day.

I was fascinated the first time you trotted that story out particularly in regards to the amount of detail you went into to re-create your observations for all of us.

Everyone already knows that when Obama becomes president he is going to take your car away and give it to Al Qaeda!

Posted by Redneckville

Family over Constituents. Selfish fuck.

If this was such a great idea, why doesn't Al Gore or T. Boner Pickass build them? Libs solution always involes tax payer money.

Posted by fwthom

And you refer to T. Boone Pickens as a LIb ?

The same guy who contributed to the Swift Boat boys ?

And the same guy who offered a million dollar reward to those who could discredit the Swift Boat liars ?

And the same guy who is building the world's largest windmill farm ?

And the same guy who recently counseled both pres candidates ?

The most consistent definition of a right wing Conservative is one who hates every innovative idea.

I made regular visits to Thousand Palms in Calfornia, the sight of Thousands of windmills is amazing, they are much larger than they appear to be, and much of Palm Springs electricity comes from them.

they are not, as some say, "..fans to cool off the hot desert", I know that because I saw them turning on during a cool day!

"And the same guy who offered a million dollar reward to those who could discredit the Swift Boat liars ?"

And reneged when it turned out people could.

"CFBs, ultimately, will phase out before wearing out. LEDs are the future."

Posted by Danforth

Probably. But... I recently received my latest catalog from C. Crane. They have a whole bunch of LED "bulbs" for sale. But they ain't cheap, no, no. Starting at $14.95 for "bedside lamps, hallways, and other fixtures where excessive light is not preferred."

most wind farms are in areas where the wind is blowing just about every day and over-capacity is stored.

The AC grid currently has no over-capacity storage mechanism of any appreciable size. Electricity is consumed as it is generated, and the entire grid balances on a knife edge.

If a wind farm attemped to push more energy into the grid than was being consumed, the voltage would rise. If that happened, a natural gas plant would be spun down or taken off line.
I suppose you could say that wind energy is stored in the coal and natural gas that you don't have to burn, but it's not really the same thing.

That is one of the reasons why plug-in hybrids are considered a huge plus for the grid. Millions of batteries plugged into the grid does create a storage mechanism for inconsistent power sources like wind/solar.

Norm that is what I mentioned that they are already doing in Denmark.

Oh, I get it. The windmills will pressurize air that we can use to fill our car tires with...

Maybe we can compromise on this one. Once the oil's all pumped out, perhaps we can mount a wind-generator to the former oil derrick...

more likely your asshole

Posted by Shawn at

Answered like a true lib. I guess you don't have a clue.

Are you really that stupid of a person or do you just play one on the internets?

Posted by Manypaths

You sir are a dumb fuck. I have probably built more power plants than you have ever seen. Hydro, coal, and zoomie powered.

Once the oil's all pumped out, perhaps we can mount a wind-generator to the former oil derrick...

Somebody is already doing it.

Set up a few hundred thousand of them in the Washington, DC area.
With all those blustering politicians-they'll generate enough wind to power the whole Hemisphere!

No clue is the post above yours Sniper.

"I have probably built more power plants than you have ever seen. Hydro, coal, and zoomie powered."

Well then at least you have a legitimate reason to be so invested in the status quo. Changes in the industry can threaten your livelihood.

This is one thing they should do at the same time they are drilling. Why can we not do both?

I have a question, I ask because I really do not know. When people say that we are subsidizing the oil companies. Does that mean that they get tax breaks or that we lease land to them, OR does it mean that some of our tax $$ are paid directly to the oil companies?

If the wind people want tax breaks, or leases to gov land then I am all for it. I am *not* for giving these people my money.

The AC grid currently has no over-capacity storage mechanism of any appreciable size. Electricity is consumed as it is generated, and the entire grid balances on a knife edge.

Posted by Norm_

Damn, I thought there was a huge battery somewhere that stored AC.

I guess the best way to store energy is to store the material that is used to generate high voltage AC. Who would have thunk?

What is inside thoes wires? And don't tell me 'more wire'.

Wind may be part of the solution but it is a long way from powering our cars.

There is no "one" solution to the energy problem. It will have to be attacked on many fronts. Until they come up with a good way to store electricity we are stuck with fossil fuel for our cars.

Wind may be part of the solution but it is a long way from powering our cars.

There is no "one" solution to the energy problem. It will have to be attacked on many fronts. Until they come up with a good way to store electricity we are stuck with fossil fuel for our cars.

Posted by Sniper

I'll be damned. Sniper said something intelligent.

The fix for Americas energy issues is on the roof of every American home.

By taking the 9 billion of the American tax dollars we hand over to the industry every year and instead giving to the homeowner to invest in photovoltaic, plus reversing the lobbyist forwarded legislation that makes solar technologies cost prohibitive to everyday Americas would allow every house the ability to generate electricity back to the grid all day resulting in more energy availability to business at a lower rate. Then, when the sun goes down we draw from the grid at normal (profitable) rates. This one act would cut our household consumption in half AND make energy more abundant and cheaper all at the same time!

But the only problem is theres no bonus for somebody in that simple a fix. No new vacation home, no golden parachutes, no executive bonuses, just ample and cheap energy for EVERYBODY! A sure sign that todays conservative-- will hate it and fight tooth and nail to make sure we never see it happen.

I'll be damned this whole site has suddenly become more intellectual with actual solutions.

When people say that we are subsidizing the oil companies. Does that mean that they get tax breaks or that we lease land to them, OR does it mean that some of our tax $$ are paid directly to the oil companies?

I think they are in the form of leases but understand and recognize that there was a time 12 to 15 years ago that oil was trading at $17 a barrel and there was support to encourage exploration through tax incentives.

the reverse is now going on but the same tax incentives are still in place.

"A windmill is beautiful and pristine clean compared to these monstrosities."

Tell that to Ted Kennedy and see if he listens to you.

"I passed a wind farm on a drive from Tucson to San Diego. HUGE fans all lined in a row sitting atop a ridge going on for as far as I could see. It looked awesome."

"everyone switching to those flourescent bulbs"

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

CFBs are a really, really bad idea. Sure, there is the immediate benefit of lower energy consumption.

Okay, then while we're all buying that and getting the immediate benefit, then companies should work on something else, or work on making these better.

It seems like with Energy Solutions, all people want to talk about is what we can't or shouldn't do. I say do it all, and work on doing more... And anyone against Nuclear Power shouldn't be allowed to speak on the subject.

Norm says, "If a wind farm attemped to push more energy into the grid than was being consumed, the voltage would rise."

That statement is incorrect!

We should utilize any and all means necessary to produce energy solar, wind, hydro, nuclear whatever it takes to be able to become energy independent. I for one am sick of sending Billions of dollars to countries that hate America.

Rob, your answer to this problem mirrors mine. Why don't other people see it that way.

Diversify

Diversify

Diversify

Norm that is what I mentioned that they are already doing in Denmark.

Posted by danni at 2008-08-19 02:27 PM

They do this here in the US for folks who have solar panels on their home.

You can go to the meter and see the dial running backwards.

We need to do everything.

How much energy can a mini windmill produce? Enough for a home?

We have great wind here--every day it is 5-8 mph starting 2:00--3:00 and going until after 7:00 pm

Is that enough power?

Murph,

A large windmill produces 2 MW of power.

A MW is a Million Watts

So a 2 MW windmill could power 16,666.66 60 watt light bulbs.

When the wind is blowing

WELLINGTON (Reuters) - A New Zealand court has allowed a parade of topless porn stars on motor bikes to proceed on the main street of the country's biggest city, local media said on Tuesday.

In addition to Solar, Hydro, Nuclear, Drilling, Wind, Possibly pedal power should be added.

"Okay, then while we're all buying that and getting the immediate benefit..."

Behind Door Number 1, we have radiation poisoning. Kewl!!

Behind Door Number 2, we have mercury poisoning. Even more kewl!

Behind Door Number 3, we have... Hey, there's nothing there? Wut-up-wit-that?

Because we should stay with what we have and know works and doesn't poison us literally to death until there are reasonable replacements for energy production and lighting. Eventually, the cost of home lighting with LEDS will drop significantly, but this is not a reason to fill our trash cans and landfills with cast off mercury in the mean time because most of us will be too GD lazy to properly recycle the GD CFBs. Note that there is no "deposit" value offered for CFBs as there is with glass bottles in many states. Perhaps that could be a strong incentive for the lazy asses to recycle.

Nuke plants are great... until something goes wrong. Then we'll be screwing the radioactive pooch for centuries to come. I don't have complete faith in nuclear energy, as you can tell.

Small systems are typically those sized for residential, agricultural and small commercial use with an electricity-generating capacity of less than 100 kilowatts.

A 10-kW wind turbine can generate about 10,000 kWh annually at a site with wind speeds averaging 19 km per hour, or about enough to power a typical household.

A 5-MW turbine can produce more than 15 million kWh in a year--enough to power more than 1,400 households.

The average U.S. household consumes about 10,000 kWh of electricity each year.

Nuke plants are great... until something goes wrong.

In the history of Nuclear power how many big accidents have there been? How many meltdowns?

3 Mile Island and Chernobyl are the only ones that spring to mind and 3 Mile Island is hardly a reason to not expand our nuclear power...

Oh and they were both over 30 years ago...

Then we'll be screwing the radioactive pooch for centuries to come.

Like how no one can live in Russia anymore... anywhere... ever.

I don't have complete faith in nuclear energy, as you can tell.

Posted by Zot

Sounds like an irrational fear and again telling people what we shouldn't be doing instead of offering solutions...

"""The AC grid currently has no over-capacity storage mechanism of any appreciable size. Electricity is consumed as it is generated, and the entire grid balances on a knife edge.""""

"Like how no one can live in Russia anymore... anywhere... ever."

At least not downriver from Chernobyl.

We need to do everything.

How much energy can a mini windmill produce? Enough for a home?

We have great wind here--every day it is 5-8 mph starting 2:00--3:00 and going until after 7:00 pm

Is that enough power?

Posted by MURPHY at 2008-08-19 03:45 PM | Reply |

Murphy, my sister has a ranch with 5-6 horses, sheep, poultry...mostly a hobby farm. She built the place "off-grid", not connected to the Hydro lines, by using wind and solar which supply ample power for house and barn. The energy is conserved in batteries and can last 3-5 days without sun or wind, which is pretty rare where she lives. In case of emergency, she has a gas generator. She built her place about 10 years ago, from this year on, she gets her power for free as the system is paid for, using the money she would have given to the utility to buy energy from them.

the first LED flashlight I saw cost $49.00 (a few years ago), I recently bought the same one at geeks.com for $7.99, so prices are coming down. had it for 3 months and still bright, my standard flashlight lasts a week. Are they the future of lighting? I don't know, the geeks guy said that standard flashlight sales are down 90%

anyway, diversify, leave nothing out of the mix, the more I check on Pickens the more I like him, whoever wins the election, it would be wise to bring Pickens aboard!

anyway, diversify, leave nothing out of the mix, the more I check on Pickens the more I like him, whoever wins the election, it would be wise to bring Pickens aboard!

Posted by onna

Obama is against Nuclear power... if he wins I doubt gov't will provide much help in getting us off foreign oil. I don't know if McCain will be all that much better, but he's at least open to nuclear and that makes him the better choice in regards to this issue.

The real way for us to get off oil is consumers have to demand it... then companies will provide it.

Obama's position papers online state very clearly that it's unlikely we're going to meet these climate and energy goals if we eliminate nuclear power from the table. So he does not oppose nuclear energy. What he wants to do is, insure that we find a way to store and make secure the nuclear waste.

again very similar to TBoone Pickens, also Pickens has paised Obama's energy plan I would assume McaCain would be similar and also supported by Pickens (although Pickens has not yet complemente McCains plan)

tbone pickens is not interested in wind power. He is a huge stackholder in natural gas... He is like Perot a few years ago. Critizes the very thing he made hundreds of millions of dollars in. He made his money in oil and now wants to start a big push to natural gas....which still means oil drilling. Don't be fooled.

www.interstatetraveler.us

Watch for a documentary soon on the Discovery channel.

I for one am sick of sending Billions of dollars to countries that hate America.

Posted by ATaxpayer

Canada hates America?

I would have never guessed that. I will check this theory out at the end of the week when I visit the Canadian "Ballet".

"What about all the seagulls and migratory birds that fly through those areas?"

The windmills chop them into fish food, helping restore our ocean fisheries.

"The AC grid currently has no over-capacity storage mechanism of any appreciable size. Electricity is consumed as it is generated, and the entire grid balances on a knife edge."

There are nautal gas-fired peaking plants for times when demand is high; otherwise they sit idle. Coal and nuclear plants can also adjust to immediate demand fluctuations.

Even dams can hold water and only release it when there is an increase in electrical needs.

Hardly a precarious 'knife edge' but more like a flexible, adaptable system.

Vernon-
I admire the fact that you fled the US to Taiwan for the sake of your children and America. It tugs at my heart, and you will be in my prayers.

Posted by 726 at 2008-08-19 09:14 PM

Canada hates America?
I would have never guessed that. I will check this theory out at the end of the week when I visit the Canadian "Ballet".

726 you know I was referring to the middle east your ignorance and cheap pot shots are showing yet again.

The ballet is for losers with fat wives and ugly twins.

most wind farms are in areas where the wind is blowing just about every day and over-capacity is stored.

Posted by panchovilla

How and where is the over-capacity stored big boy? That must be some big battery that hasn't been invented yet.

So I guess you have moderen appliences like lights and heat most of the time. Like when the wind is blowing over 5 MPH and some environmental jerk lets you build new power lines from one of there great wonders.

I geuss you haven't heard. The wind mills are bad for the birds and anything that live within 10 miles of these things. Then there is the matter of the new power lines. MAN, we just can't have thoes ugly things anywhere near us.

Well then at least you have a legitimate reason to be so invested in the status quo. Changes in the industry can threaten your livelihood.

Posted by Sully

Not realy, us construction workers will build just about anything. Just like in the army, it all pays the same, fightin of fuckin.

Blowin' In The Wind: Bloomberg's Green Energy Plan
Mayor Proposes Energy Initiative That Could Drastically Change Skyline
Windmills On City Bridges & Skyscrapers; Turbines On Rivers' Shores; Solar Panels On Buildings

You can also pump water uphill into reservoirs and retrieve the energy by letting it go.

Posted by dibblda

It also uses more energy to pump it up to the storage facility than you generate when you release it. Damn good deal.

A large windmill produces 2 MW of power.

Posted by _2112_

A large nuk plant produces 1500 MW

A large coal plant produces 800 MW

A large politican produces higher taxes.

A large nuk plant produces 1500 MW

A large coal plant produces 800 MW

and they still work when the wind id not blowing and the sun is not shining.

"Like how no one can live in Russia anymore... anywhere... ever."

The Chernobyl area remains an uninhabited zone for humans.

There have been smaller incidents across the globe that have been contained, fortunately.

"Sounds like an irrational fear and again telling people what we shouldn't be doing instead of offering solutions..."

You know where you can stuff your irrational, doncha? Just because another major radiation release event hasn't happened does not mean it will never happen. Can you grok that?

Granted, the Chernobyl incident could have been contained if the Ruskies had installed a containment dome. But the Chernobyl plant remains, and will remain until the end of planet Earth highly contaminated and permanently off limits.

TMI-2 today remains closed and off-limits.

And there is still the Big Problem with using nuclear fission: what do you do with the waste. It can only be piled up for so long at the various nuke plants. The radioactive waste must be dispositioned at some point. How about they start storing it in your basement? Would you be good with that? You could be Rob_The_Radioactive_Asshole.

Here's what we are doing over on Danni's side of the state at FAU.....

"Underwater turbines could power the state of Florida"