"I'm sure that America will see that, like me, Barack Obama is a man of truth and family values."

--John "Hide the Salami and Hide in the Bathroom"
Edwards

Cookfish-
I thought that quote was from the dude who dumped his children and crippled wife to marry a heiress 20 years his junior to finance his political career.

I'm looking forward to watching this forum.

I respect and admire Rick Warren. Wish there were more evangelicals like him. Puts his actions where his rhetoric is.

Takes, what? $50,000 a year salary or something really low like that?

I could never be a politician.
The first time I had get on my knees on National TV to one of those asswipes-I'd wring his fuckin' useless neck.
Religion DOES have it's place in American life.
And I guarantee it's not in politics or governance.

Fuck faith-based politics. Anybody stupid enough to vote on faith is too stupid to vote.

Tax the churches!!!

My prediction?

Obama comes off smooth but not slick. He doesn't promise them anything specific but uses the right church words and "feels their pain" like Billy used to do. He is a hit.

McCain forgets where he is and offers to get Cindy to take off her shirt.

what's interesting is that while Rick Warren is hosting this debate, the Dobson people are praying for rain to occur on Obama's stadium appearance. (what if it don't rain/)

Talk about the invisible hand in the American economy.

Talk about the greatness of America.

Christianity is an integral part of America's greatness.

Connect the dots.

Sorry, but about all I can muster up for this one is a great big yawn.

Guess it's on right now since it's now about 5:15 p.m.
I'll check it out for a few minutes.

"Christianity is an integral part of America's greatness."

--------

Yeah. It was a part of hitlers 'greatness' too...

Obama sounds completely comfortable talking about matters of faith. It has to be weird for Republicans to face a candidate with that going for him.

McCain forgets where he is and offers to get Cindy to take off her shirt.

~SilverIronist

FF!

Be Well.

/Off fer sushi. Back later.

Here is the problem with organized religion in politics.

Politics, diplomacy, compromise. These are all means to water down or even conceal meaning and to hide the truth.

Religion people tend to think they know the answers to the questions that are important to them. This automatically means in a quantum universe that they are 50% right and/or 50% wrong at any given moment. But religion has a very specific primary mission. To grow the religion.

Put these 2 together and whatta ya have? instant theocracy, That feeds off the blood of the believers. add a dash of facism for flavor.

This is my John McSame recipe for failure on a grand scale - even surpassing Bush.

you know he's gonna be kissing some talibaptist ass in the debate.

The little I've seen so far Obama is doing quite well in his answers.

I also like the extra gray Obama is now showing in his hair. The gray gives his appearance some "gravitas" and looks more distinguished. Before Obama -- besides being a relative unknown -- just seemed to look too young for the position of President. The touch of gray in his hair looks better.

soon dbthom (that's douche bag, dirt bag is too kind) will be posting on here something "ears".
he looked good.

This is a good thing. I like the format.

Now there running a McCain ad about 'higher taxes'.

Well, if you make less than $250,000 a year you're going to pay less
This is what's wrong with politics.

Just saw a NOW-With Bill Moyer on Ralph Reed and Jack Abramoff.

Rick Warren is a man who you secular humanists should respect--he puts his money, his life and his actions where his faith talk is.
He's poured MILIIONS into Africa, the poor, those with AIDS.

And many Christians HATE him for it.

i was not voted miss congeniality again this year?

I'd give him my vote for miss congeniality.

Rick Warren IS a Christian - practicing Christianity in his deeds

He could very well become this generation's Billy Graham in influence as a man everyone respects

You're right, Rcade, Obama is better on faith than McCain.

He loses us when he says it's fine to let a baby that is born *despite* an abortion procedure die of neglect.

"He loses us when he says it's fine to let a baby that is born *despite* an abortion procedure die of neglect."

Huh?

he is of the emergent church variety, a.u. think wide gate and it being "all about me" type christian. the person who runs fox news also owns zondervan - the publisher of all his "purported drivel church" nonsense. think about it. his books are bought by millions, yet there are people starving to death in his own neighborhood - so he ONLY takes a small salary from his church - why does he even need one?

Rick Warren is a man who you secular humanists should respect--he puts his money, his life and his actions where his faith talk is.
He's poured MILIIONS into Africa, the poor, those with AIDS.

Posted by kirk at 2008-08-16 09:03 PM

My friends, I guess that makes him the exception.
Says a lot for modern "christians" when the stand-out characteristic for a preacher is that he lives what he preaches.

again with POW stories?

come on answer the questions

Rick Warren is a man who you secular humanists should respect--he puts his money, his life and his actions where his faith talk is.

No surprise that Nanc doesn't like him.

Nanc,

Read up on the man. He's spent millions on Africa *of his own money*

Rcade,
John McCain just kicked ass in his question on religion.

You Obama fans better hope for a lot less of these debates (and I'm not a huge fan of McCain).

Oh, man, is McCain working his POW stint in 'Nam for all it's worth or what.
He brings it up every other sentence.

NO WAY is this an real audience from California. Johnny McBigOil says he wants off shore drilling and this entire "Californian" audience in the auditorium breaks into applause? I think McCain's "California" audience all just landed at LAX about 3 hours ago as they flew in from Houston. McPhony.

Reverand Warren asked Obama to answer the questions without giving his Campaign speech, than turned to allow McCain every opportunity to say his Campaign speech.

Every question allowed McCain to give his stale Campaign speech, Rev. Warren was not fair as he allowed McCain to repeat over an over his memorized Campaign CRAP!!!!!

Not much accomplished other than it is clear that Obama thinks much better on his feet that Sen. McCain, on to the next round, Plus for Obama for going into the Lions Den!!!!!!

He loses us when he says it's fine to let a baby that is born *despite* an abortion procedure die of neglect.

What about all the post-birth children living on the streets without guidance or a chance? Aren't they just as important as ex-vitro fetuses too?

When the pro-life movement starts building "childcare" facilities all across America to deal with unwanted and neglected children already born and living, then we can talk about the crisis among fetuses with more vigor and integrity. Why is the potentiality of life more important than life already birthed and living amongst us that no one cares about nor takes care of until they encounter the criminal justice system? Then we lock them up or kill them over what we as a society allowed them to become due to lack of involved parenting and mere proper, respectful childhood guidance.

Every question allowed McCain to give his stale Campaign speech, Rev. Warren was not fair as he allowed McCain to repeat over an over his memorized Campaign CRAP!!!!!

WAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!

what's up with the faces he's making my friends?

If you have thousands a year to spend sending your kids to private school I'm sure you agree with McCain.

Suck that money out of the public school system and millions more will have less to work with.

I am not in CA but god knows I have been there enough in regards to my career. Lake Forest is in Orange County so I am not so surprised by this audience, big RNC crowd. No flying in necessary.

i dont want to take any money from the rich, i want everybody to be rich.

jesus this guy isn't in reality.

whoa wait did he just say give everybody 7 grand for kids?

wowza

I'm really tired of "my friends."

If you've lost your job a $5000 tax credit isn't going to do diddley squat buying you health care.

listen here my friend i'll give you a $5000 dollar tax credit to not be tired with "my friend", my friend.

Tonyroma,

Are you kidding me?

Get your phonebook out right now for the town where you live and look at WHO is running the homeless shelters, soup kitchens, drug rehab centers, battered women's homes and material assistance for women and children (pregnant or not).

It's more Christians than anyone else.

"I can inspire. I can lead"

Yet another irrelevant post by Mr. Fish.

Posted by eatme

Does he post anything else?

It's more Christians than anyone else.

Did I mention Christian's at all? No I didn't. My point was to society as a whole, not just charities. The pro-life movement is largely pro-birth. Why not spend the money on prenatal healthcare services instead of blocking clinics where needy women go for guidance? Most stop right there at birth. That is my point.

I would never look askance at people doing good work.

I think you missed my point.

Russians rolled out as this election's boogie man.

If Putin respected Bush this wouldn't have happened.

Dobson people are praying for rain to occur on Obama's stadium appearance. (what if it don't rain/)

Posted by onna

Does it mean there is no God?

Or simply that he thinks they are a bunch of assholes and laughs at them?

I am hoping for blue skies just to shove it in their collective faces.

"If Putin respected Bush this wouldn't have happened."

if anyone respected bush a lot of shit wouldn't have happened my friends.

If you've lost your job a $5000 tax credit isn't going to do diddley squat buying you health care.

The part McCain didn't mention is that he will tax your healthcare benefits from your employer as income. That's why he touts the tax credit.

Its just another tax on the workers disproportionately to pay for more cuts for the wealthy.

McCain looks better than I thought he would, I like what he's saying about nuclear energy. How does Obama feel about nuclear energy? I ask because my internet connection is very crippled and The Retort is only one of a very few sites that works relatively normal or I'd look it up myself.

I'm really tired of "my friends."

Posted by YAV

It reminds me of some snake oil hukster used car salesman talk.

If anyone really thinks he is their friend (unless of course they have millions of dollars to give him), they have a missing chromosome.

You can't say pandering doesn't work when you have the right audience.

Got ya, tonyroma.

I think we can do BOTH.
We are talking about 3000 abortions per day, and a hurting woman behind every one of those

That's perverse.

You may not agree with the harm and accompanying needs, but they're real and maybe you could *try* and respect those of us who do both.

Oh, and did I mention I was a POW 40 years ago?

If you have thousands a year to spend sending your kids to private school I'm sure you agree with McCain.

Suck that money out of the public school system and millions more will have less to work with

I believe the opposite will be true, won't it? The people who send their kids to private schools still pay school taxes regardless. Therefore that means more $$$/student since fewer students would be in the public system.

Its just another tax on the workers disproportionately to pay for more cuts for the wealthy.

McCain Backs Worker's Tax Hike on Healthcare
www.drudge.com

Posted by tonyroma

The only people who make out under his plan are people currently without insurance and $12000 per year to pay for it.

You can almost hear the employers across America planning to dump health plans if this old fool is elected.

JAY

Obama's for nuclear. He wants to ensure we can safely store nuclear waste.

I believe the opposite will be true, won't it?

Posted by goatman

You forgot 1/2 the equation.

You forgot 1/2 the equation.

Which half. Enlighten me.

McCain wants a $5000 tax credit for health insurance.
Whoa, Johnny, you haven't been pricing the cost of health insurance lately, have ya?

My relative's health insurance policies (Medicare and a Medicare supplemental health insurance policy) ran $4800 a year. That was for ONE person. You can imagine how much it would be to pay for health insurance for a family of four.

But then ol' Johnny has NEVER had to pay for his own health insurance has he.
Johnny McOutofTouch doesn't have a clue as to the cost of health insurance these days. Stupido.

This was a great format.

John McCain kicked butt--It was the best I have ever seen him.

Obama couldn't or wouldn't answer some questions--abortion, marriage and his answer on Clarence Thomas was the worse answer ever given.

I counted those pesky "My friends" from McCain 13 times.

I stopped counting the ummm ahhh umm um ua from Obama at 64.

AU-
Watched all but a couple minutes of it. Both men did well.

I believe the opposite will be true, won't it? The people who send their kids to private schools still pay school taxes regardless. Therefore that means more $$$/student since fewer students would be in the public system.

Posted by goatman at 2008-08-16 09:53 PM

No goat, I think AU's right here. And I'm a proponent of voucher systems and school competition.

The idea being, everyone currently in private school pays into the system, but receives no benefits. So the public school system gets more per child.

If you move to a voucher system, suddenly all those private school kids are dumped into the system and once again feeding from the trough.

That being said, its not unlikely that private school systems could operate more effectively on a smaller per child budget.

Obama couldn't or wouldn't answer some questions--abortion, marriage and his answer on Clarence Thomas was the worse answer ever given.
great smurphy is out....Obama got quit a round of applause for his thomas answer. maybe you had the volume down.

You may not agree with the harm and accompanying needs, but they're real and maybe you could *try* and respect those of us who do both.

I do. But I don't respect those who demagogue the issue for politics sake without ever considering the other side of the equation.

My belief tells me that souls cannot be created nor destroyed. Bodies, yes; souls no. But that's what I believe. I know others feel differently and I can respect that, if respect is given in return. I believe that the Divine in us is the spirit, not the flesh; so you might understand why I'm not enamored with this entire debate on its current terms.

No goat, I think AU's right here. And I'm a proponent of voucher systems and school competition.

My bad. I didn't know vouchers were involved. I did not see that mentioned in this thread.

For the record, I am against vouchers and private schools. Kids of all social classes should be mixed. They learn from each other. It's a sin to segregate society's best and brightest from the rest.

Obama better quit doing debates.

I really can't believe he did so bad and McCain did so well.

Which half. Enlighten me.

Posted by goatman

The money half.

If you take more money out of the education system per student than it costs to educate that student then the students left in the system are placed at a disadvantage.

This is the neocon agenda.

GOATMAN

The 'voucher system' pulls money out of the public school funding and allows people to use it to pay for private school - thereby removing funding from the public school system.

OK swimming's starting at the Olympics.

The next hour we have Torres swimming for a gold, and Phelps for his potential 8th these games.....

Glad I caught the forum.

Obama did well in relatively unfriendly territory.

McCain sounded rehearsed and said just what the evangelical right wants to hear.

But, good job to both.

The 'voucher system' pulls money out of the public school funding and allows people to use it to pay for private school - thereby removing funding from the public school system.

Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2008-08-16 10:07 PM

It also gives more students the opportunity to attend private schools.

Funny enough, I know you and Goat are on the same side of this issue.

Johnny McOutofTouch doesn't have a clue as to the cost of health insurance these days. Stupido.

Posted by CalifChris

Not only that, but his plan will end the income tax deduction that businesses get for paying for employees health plans. How many employers gonna continue paying for something they cannot deduct?

Not many IMHO.

It also gives more students the opportunity to attend private schools.

Funny enough, I know you and Goat are on the same side of this issue.

Posted by GustoGus at

Except special needs kids since a private school can refuse them.

Tonyroma,
I respect your position. Have a good night.

Neither one slammed (or even talked about) the other guy.

That was a good format too.

BTW, those of you who are not all that familiar of the inside workings of evangelical Christianity should know that Rick Warren is absolutely HATED by millions of conservative Christians. They say worse things about him than they do about atheist drag queen abortionists. Seriously.

Stuff like "antichrist."

Yes--there were some Obama fans in the house that clapped for his answers on everything.

He said Thomas first because Thomas is not considered black enough by the black community.

Thomas and Scalia have been identical on their votes--I think 90-95% of the time--maybe more.

But he goes for Thomas the only black SCOTUS--for a reason--it was code.

His answer on evil was pathetic.

Funny enough, I know you and Goat are on the same side of this issue.

I have several teachers in my immediate and extended family. They are the ones who convinced me that private schools have a negative impact on society.

I really with the MSM would focus on McCain's phony claim Obama would raise taxes - sure, if you make over $250,000 or more a year. Rolled back to where they were before.

Everyone else would pay LESS under Obama's plan.

"It also gives more students the opportunity to attend private schools."
true, bit on the flip side it takes away even more money from public schools. how are they to improve with less funding?
It's kinda like the oil arguement. they need their massive tax breaks in order to keep finding oil. if they don't get them then they will fail.

MURPHY

Thomas is a disengaged SCOTUS judge.

He has YET to ask a SINGLE question during arguments before the court. It's only been what? 20 years.

Come on now. Be honest. It's hardly about his skin color. That's a ridiculous claim ao make.

Except special needs kids since a private school can refuse them.

Posted by 726 at 2008-08-16 10:12 PM

726. I didn't outline an entire plan or even discuss any sort of integration. Obviously there's problems with a voucher system, but i think its a system at least worth exploring. Perhaps public schools could remain as a net, perhaps in a competitive market special needs schools would crop up that are better equipped to deal with special needs kids. There are a whole host of ways to work around "special needs kids".

As there are with "problem children". We have arguably the greatest system of universities, colleges and junior colleges in the world, shifting our primary education towards mimicing that system doesn't strike me as a bad idea.

Would have been easier if I owned a laptop but the exercise was great!
Had to run from the den to the kitchen everytime I wanted to post a comment.

How can McCain even talk about a VP that's pro-choice after tonight?

AU,

Thomas asks questions, they just happen to be few and far between.

That said, his fellow justices are extremely inquisitive and really put him in a situation where he's able to ascertain what he needs to know via his colleagues' questions.

Also, he's not the first justice on SCOTUS to remain mostly silent when it comes to asking questions.

PS - He and justice Breyer like to sit side-by-side so they can whisper jokes to eachother and pass funny notes back and forth (I am serious).

Thomas is well-liked by his colleagues and he makes a point of learning the names of each and every clerk who passes through the annals of the court.

All of that said, he definitely was one of the more under-qualified justices to ever sit on the court and his jurisprudence is a tad extreme. What I mean by this is that he doesn't have a lot of respect for Starre Decisis. He'd gladly overturn a prior ruling that he felt was wrong. He's the closest thing we have to a Conservative activist judge on the court.

Perhaps public schools could remain as a net,

Well of course they would, but a voucher plan would siphon off the best students that require the least resources and leave the rest that would require more resources. All while draining resources from a school system that is already straining to make do with less and less.

That sounds to me like the recipe for the death of public education. Of course that is the neocon agenda. Then only "smart" kids would be able to attend school, the rest can become slave labor.

A neocon Utopia.

CC

You thinking of contending in the "TV/Blogger 1500" next Olympics? I'm up to Olympic level myself, but decided to sit it out until next Olympics...

LOL

Rick Warren's questions were better than just about anything the media has asked in prior debates. After the forum, when CNN's professional journalists got to weigh in, they spent the first 10 minutes talking about how the candidates appeared and what it was like when they shook hands.

As a journalism graduate, what the hell is wrong with my field? The two best debates/forums of the campaign thus far have been Warren's event and the YouTube debates where regular people got to ask questions.

Why is it that the last person in the world you'd expect to ask an intelligent question is a journalist, a person who went to college to learn how to ask good questions?

Ugh.

I added .8 to the difficulty level of my routine by eating pita sandwiches at the same time...

May be JUST enough to beat the Chinese..

That's a ridiculous claim ao make.

Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2008-08-16 10:17 PM

Remember you heard it here first...

Ginzburg wasn't even a judge --she was an ACLU attorney--talk about underqualified!

RCADE

TV journalism has sadly turned into a beauty contest.

It also gives more students the opportunity to attend private schools.

Yes, but the good private schools will set tuition higher then the amount of the vouchers, taking the vouchers plus more money from those who can afford it, while forcing students of families with lesser means into the schools that are not as good comparitively. Education will continue to have many of the same problems it has now. The disparity between good and bad education may become even worse, as those who can't afford the vouchers(plus) schools will be left with a choise of school that will back them in on vouchers(only).

How will a voucher system improve education? On a voucher system education will be in the hands of people more interested in making profits then teaching our kids.

Check that on Judge Ginzberg--

Prior to her appointment with the Supreme Court, Ginsburg served as a federal judge for 13 years on the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit. In practice, she spent a considerable portion of her career as an advocate for the equal citizenship status of women and men as a constitutional principle. She engaged in advocacy as a volunteer lawyer for the American Civil Liberties Union, and in the 1970s, was a member of the ACLU's Board and one of its General Counsel. She served as a professor at Rutgers University School of Law and Columbia Law School.

Nightline being a sad casualty of the march from journalism to entertainment.

God, I mess Ted Koppel's probative questioning.

Remember you heard it here first...

Ginzburg?

Ok - whoever the hell that is. Are you referring to Ruth Bader Ginsburg?

Prior to her appointment with the Supreme Court, Ginsburg served as a federal judge for 13 years on the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit.

Your track record is abysmal.

You thinking of contending in the "TV/Blogger 1500" next Olympics>

I'll have to let you know what my speed is after I finish blogging the upcoming debates in October. That should give me enough practice running back and from from the den tv to the computer in the kitchen that maybe I can be a contender in 2012.

Well of course they would, but a voucher plan would siphon off the best students that require the least resources and leave the rest that would require more resources. All while draining resources from a school system that is already straining to make do with less and less.

That sounds to me like the recipe for the death of public education. Of course that is the neocon agenda. Then only "smart" kids would be able to attend school, the rest can become slave labor.

A neocon Utopia.

Posted by 726 at 2008-08-16 10:24 P

Well its tough to have a legitimate conversation with someone who is getting their arguments from some dystopic sci-fi novel.

I think I recently read an article about switzerland moving to a voucher system some 10 years ago. They claim to be having a fair amount of success with the program and it is pretty popular publicly (especially interesting in a system such as switzerlands).

I'm pretty sure Minnesota has also done some testign with it, with mixxed results.

I'm not proclaiming it to be the panacea of educational system, but I do think its worth exploring more in different markets to see what tweaks could be made to make it workable, and perhaps even.....if we hold our breath and wish really hard...an improvement.

Ok, Murphy, you caught yourself on that one.

Now who the hell is Ginzberg and why should anyone care?

MURPHY

2 posts up you claimed Ginsburg hadn't been a judge.

13 years on the Federal Appeals Court doesn't count?

The ACLU fights for 'Civil Liberties' that you enjoy yourself.

Check that on Judge Ginzberg--

You probably shouldn't shoot the gun if your not sure you have the correct ammo.

How will a voucher system improve education? On a voucher system education will be in the hands of people more interested in making profits then teaching our kids.

Posted by Whatsleft at 2008-08-16 10:29 PM |

You mean like our current University system. My what a drastic failure those have been...

Public schools need competition--they suck right now--

The teachers who are good --teach science, math or teach is inner city scools need higher pay.

That --Obama (and McCain) I give credit in recognizing. Obama more because he goes against the NEA union which will never give merit pay unless forced by laws.

Fire the bad ones--the ones that get busted for preying on kids--so they can't go to another school and start all over again.

Vouchers are a way to even out the opportunity for kids who are stuck in poor performing schools to get out.

Murph,

A couple of additional points regarding justice Ginsburg:

After blocking countless, lower Clinton appointments, when the spot opened on the court he gave the Republican party a short-list and the most approved-of candidate on that list was Ginsburg.

Scalia, even contacter her as well as Clinton and asked if they thought it would help her nomination if he said bad things about her (I am serious).

She was a crusader as a lawyer, but took on a brilliant tack. She wanted to advance women's rights. So, she would seek out grievances where a man was discriminated against and would snatch the case. What she was trying to do was create a legal precedent but was doing so by representing a man, knowing full well that said precedent would carry over to women's causes.

I don't care for her jurisprudence as I feel that she takes too broad of a view of the text contained within the Constitution. That said, she really is a pretty remarkable woman.

CC

I'd really consider adding messy pita pocket sandwiches for that extra level of difficulty.

You saw how it helped some of the gymnast's scores this year to have that extra .8.

Hope to see you in London in 2012 !! I'll be rooting for you.

"California Christine, the American, is a strong contender this year, Bob."

"You're so right. She did really well the last two World Cup TV/Blogger Competitions. A definite favorite this year to take the gold. Frank, NO one has matched her time from couch to keyboard. This ought to be VERY interesting, Frank!".

You mean like our current University system. My what a drastic failure those have been...

They pick who they admit. How successful will public schools or private schools be if they could do the same?

"Your track record is abysmal."

It was just one week ago where these prognosticators were claiming that the Edwards story (remember that?) had "long legs" and was going to "last to the convention" and that it was going to "sink Obama."

Abysmal track record, indeed.

if one could get past the ums, butbutbutbuts, uhs, mmmms and such, obama may be able to make a complete sentence one day.

the big question is, "whatever happened to the separation of church and state?"

and,

when are the muzlims going to host one of these?

Sorry Yav et al--I checked myself--is that a self-retorting retort?

Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2008-08-16 10:17 PM

Remember you heard it here first...

Yav scroll up to AU post about Clarence Thomas and mine--Obama was using code to name Thomas--

Truth,

A track-record pertains to prior performance.

What you are ripping is a prediction - we all make them and are all wrong at some point or another.

"That said, his fellow justices are extremely inquisitive and really put him in a situation where he's able to ascertain what he needs to know via his colleagues' questions."

Sounds like a typical black man smurphy, lettin others do the work for him.

your replies are consistently weak.

when does junior high start in your district? once you're back in the 8th grade we won't have to read your crap.

You mean like our current University system. My what a drastic failure those have been...

How are colleges comprised of a voucher system?

Heh heh my friends, kicking the cripple to the curb wasn't my finest hour.

John MehCain

CJ--maybe you should direct your insult to Jeff--that is his answer...

CJK,

WTF are you talking about?

Why have 9 individuals peppering away with questions when the information needed can be ascertained by having 6 individuals firing away?

"if one could get past the ums, butbutbutbuts, uhs, mmmms and such, obama may be able to make a complete sentence one day."

CJ--maybe you should direct your insult to Jeff--that is his answer...

Precisely.

Rein--

Both candidates gave honest answers to the moral regreat question.

Obama on drugs and McCain on his first marriage.

"Ginzburg wasn't even a judge --she was an ACLU attorney--talk about underqualified!"

It wouldn't be a Murphy post if it didn't contain a deliberate lie or an ignorant falsehood.

smurphy my apologies, regardless, when is you're junior high back in session? i can't wait.

Obama umms ahh ums um um umums --I stopped counting at 64.

McCain --My friends totaled 13...

McCain was surprisingly on top of his game.

Obama needs to go back to Hawaii.

MURPHY

Bullshit on Thomas (his race).

A guy who's NEVER asked a SINGLE question in 20 years during arguments has no business being on the SCOTUS.

Thomas IS the most unqualified Justice on the SCOTUS.

I don't care if someone's blue. They should take an active interest in what's going on. Shows a real lack of interest.

Overall, evidence concerning the market for education suggests that there are
beneficial effects from competition, but up to now, research cannot give clear
answers to the basic questions whether vouchers and school choice will lead to
market-like competition and whether this will lead to better school performance
(cf. Levin, 2002). Potential disadvantages of voucher schemes include significant
financial resources and teachers time diverted to marketing and more weight
given to quantifiable examination results than to what is important. Thus, the
costs of a voucher system may outweigh the expected benefits of introducing
competitive pressure to schools and greater freedom into the provision of education.

Putting the fear's of developing a slave class aside, this is the best most reasoned framing of the school voucher debate I've seen.

As to how Universities are a voucher system, obviously you've never been to community college. In many states, community college is free after meetign certain criteria. And yes, I understand the problem inherent in mandatory education vs. choosing to attend college. But the argument made was that that education for profit leads to poor results, when obviously, at the higher levels of education that hasn't been the case.
Once again, I'm not saying its a perfect argument or system, but it is an idea worth exploring.

"What you are ripping is a prediction - we all make them and are all wrong at some point or another."

Interesting you put it that way. I seem to remember "predictions" about "six weeks, I doubt six months" and flowers and chocolates, and the war will "pay for itself".

Those people are still offering their "predictions."

So much for you own your own words. Say what you want today, it is meaningless tomorrow, where you'll say whatever the fuck you want then.

Null--You need to start again--!

Go read the posts above loser.

A guy who's NEVER asked a SINGLE question in 20 years during arguments has no business being on the SCOTUS.

AU, that's a bit broad. I know the Washington Post did some research and they confirmed he did, in fact, ask one question within the past 2 years.

"Obama umms ahh ums um um umums --I stopped counting at 64."

murphy - they ought to have the transcript at politico in the next hour or so - it'll be like counting the "oooh-ooh-ooooohs" in "sympathy for the devil"...just sayin'...

if one could get past the ums, butbutbutbuts, uhs, mmmms and such, obama may be able to make a complete sentence one day

While I agree that while speaking in discussion, Obama's style degrades, that certainly hasn't deterred republicans about their choices in the past.

Truth,

Nothing wrong with owning your own words and I happen to agree regarding the flowers and chocolates thing.

PS - Are you aware that Cheney didn't make that up? The CIA assured him that would be the response the US would get upon the removal of Hussein.

"It wouldn't be a Murphy post if it didn't contain a deliberate lie or an ignorant falsehood."

Apparently so.

AU--you can be critical of Thomas and your litmus test for a justice asking questions or not--

Since I am sure you don't read the transcripts--you don't have anything but a left wing link to prove your ridiculous test for SCOTUS.

How many questions will the SCOTUS ask??--

Why don't you email Joe Biden to ask the next nominee that question and see how that works for you.

Thomas writes 25% of the opinions--majority or dissent for the SCOTUS--EVERY YEAR.

the Law Blog of the Wall Street Journal initiated the "When-Will-Justice-Thomas-Ask-
a-Question Watch", noting that the justice had not asked a single question during oral arguments since February 22, 2006.[48] February 22, 2008, marked the two year anniversary of Thomas's last question during oral argument, a milestone which was noted by several media outlets, including CNN. [49] Another reference to his silence was made in the Boston Legal episode The Court Supreme where Denny Crane made a bet regarding whether Alan Shore could get the fictional Justice Thomas to talk.

But Obama was speaking "code."

Apparently so was the Law blog of the Wall Street Journal.

I don't understand Thomas' refusal to ask questions. It makes him seem intellectually incurious, a bad trait for a Supreme Court jurist.

But I do think it's true sometimes that people who listen are smarter than people who fill every bit of silence with noise. So I'm not sure what to think of him. I do agree with Obama that he wasn't qualified to serve on the court when he was nominated.

As for tonight's forum, I think Obama did an extremely good job of demonstrating the importance of his faith and he'll get some benefit from religious voters. I don't think he won the event, though, because no Democrat would win that crowd over a Republican. McCain's worst answers were often better received by the crowd than Obama's best ones.

"The CIA assured him that would be the response the US would get upon the removal of Hussein."

Meanwhile, the voices calling that assessment "bullshit", at that time, were called "unamerican." And the outcome of the elections of 2002 and 2004 prove my point: No one owns their own words. Say what you want today, it is meaningless tomorrow, where you'll say whatever the fuck you want then.

"Since I am sure you don't read the transcripts" smurphy please enlighten us on how you're sure.
wait though, i wanna make some popcorn, this will be good.

Thomas writes 25% of the opinions--majority or dissent for the SCOTUS--EVERY YEAR.

[citation needed]

Rcade--with all due respect--Obama couldn't or wouldn't answer the question on abortion and the start of life.

He hemmed and hawed on the entire question--in fact we would have to go back to try and figure out what the heck he said.

Obama isn't qualified to serve POTUS--I guess he has something in common them with Thomas..

I'm watching this on TiVo, and just heard the "I can inspire, I can lead" comment by McCain.

Anyone who says that... well, they're not leaders and they cannot not inspire.

discerning christians will vote for discerning christians, imho.

wonder how quickly obama will separate church and state completely if elected? i mean after he woos those ignorant christians?

"Rcade--with all due respect--Obama couldn't or wouldn't answer the question on abortion and the start of life"

smurph, how many questions did mclame answer with "let me just first tell a story."

with all due respect of course

wonder how quickly obama will separate church and state completely if elected? i mean after he woos those ignorant christians?

Posted by nanc at 2008-08-16 11:02 PM |

The shame is in you seeing this as a bad thing.

Nanc, you speak as though Obama's not a Christian. Why is that?