Well, we'll see how many of the typical GOP apologists will bother to grace our presence with their specific answers to relatively simple questions. They continue to play Americans for fools and unfortunately they've been right more often than not in the recent past.

But even a stopped watch can be right twice a day. Most Americans have figured out a few things that go against the GOP orthodoxy such as :

The Iraq War was a bad idea executed by imbeciles and fools. The war destabilized the oil markets, pushed the price through the roof and tanking our own economy. The only major industry making obscene profits are the oil companies and now the GOP wants to give them even more.

Our 9/11 enemy Al Qaeda has received a huge pass while we wasted lives and trillions destroying Iraq. We're more fearful of an attack today than we were prior to 9/11 because people understand how terrorism works in ways we didn't back then. Not a plus for the current Administration, the gang who couldn't catch one 6'5" Arab literally dragging a dialysis machine behind him through the mountains.

But if you listen to the GOP shills, its all the Democrat's fault and they are the ones who can't be trusted. Just ignore all the failure wrapped around the Republican's necks....

It is not like high gas prices and dependence on foreign oil can't wait til congress gets a well deserved vacation right?
No crisis here...move along boys and girls.
Sheesh!

Sorry Tony but the Dems for all their bitching and moaning give the Repubs pretty much what they want so what's the beef?

A better question would be how stupid does 0bama and his apologists think the voters are to believe he's gonna change anything?

Pretending that allowing increased drilling will effect gas prices in the near future is a dishonest tactic of lying Republicans who did nothing to increase supply when they controlled all three branches of government. Hypocrits every one.

"A better question would be how stupid does 0bama and his apologists think the voters are to believe he's gonna change anything?"

Not stupid enough to think that electing McSame who already has announced that he wants to continue with more of the same will bring any change at all.
At least with Obama there is hope of change, McCain promises he won't change anything significant.

I would think the GOP has estimated the level of stupidity pretty accurately.

Look at what they have done and then look at how they are not in prison. I would say they sized up the situation pretty well.

Our 9/11 enemy Al Qaeda has received a huge pass while we wasted lives and trillions destroying Iraq.

uh huh...

"Just How Stupid Does the GOP Think Voters Are?"

About six ticks shy of Forrest Gump stature.

Just How Stupid Does the GOP Think Voters Are?

Very.

The head of the WH "Office of Faith Based Outreach" mocked evangelicals as gullible.

Tom Delay/Jack Abramoff/Ralph Reed used the "Family and Moral Values" line to raise millions which they used for the personal enrichment, prevent labor laws in the Mariana Islands (sweat shops in U.S. territory), and attempt to make the U.S. a one party government for their own personal enrichment - not YOURS.

McCain would serve us well to release the other 95% of the findings of his Indian Affairs Committee which investigated the Abramoff ties to the GOP Congress and the WH - 485 visits by him to the WH.

They weren't doing the PEOPLE'S business. They were ripping of every single GOP and DEM taxpayer - and laughing at everyone as they did it.

Watch the episode of PBS's "NOW" with Bill Moyer entitled "Capitol Crimes". It'll make your head spin. And that was just a drop in the bucket.

"Just How Stupid Does the GOP Think Voters Are?"

2000...they knew they were stupid

2004 they were surprised that they were stupider

2008 they are hoping they are stupiderer.

Yep, not a single response to simple questions, just more hurling of insipid retorts without the decency of a response.

Voting down an energy proposal and then grandstanding the opposition for not taking the issue seriously....

This is today's GOP: Gettin' Over Plenty and Greed Over Principles!

Stand proud righties, stand proud!

Not a plus for the current Administration, the gang who couldn't catch one 6'5" Arab literally dragging a dialysis machine behind him through the mountains.

BTW intel says that he was never on Dialysis...

Well, that clears it up, Rob. It's a nice campaign slogan:

Republicans: We always get our man (if he's really ill, otherwise not)

We always get our man (if he's really ill, otherwise not)

Well that's the thing, he's not really ill... he's fine. If he were literally dragging a dialysis machine behind him through the mountains we would have found him...

"If he were literally dragging a dialysis machine behind him through the mountains we would have found him..."

LOL.

I'm so fuckin' sick of the "accountability" presidency, and its apologists.

3. The GOP controlled all three branches of government nominally since the mid-90's, so why wasn't increased oil leasing and offshore drilling a priority until TODAY when prices have been increasing for the last 5 years with no end in sight because of Bush's invasion of Iraq decreasing stability in the already volatile Middle East?

Clinton was a republican?

Anyways, blame poor planning on Washington sure... but up until a couple years ago gas wasn't that expensive... So the need to find alternative sources of energy as well as increasing supply wasn't a priority.

I'm so fuckin' sick of the "accountability" presidency, and its apologists.

Posted by BetelG

You're not making any sense... All I did was point out Tony's statement about Bin Laden's kidneys was incorrect. As to not getting Bin Laden, that will always fall on Bush (if he doesn't get him before January 20). Finding 1 man in an area where he is loved and supported by the population is extraordinarily difficult...

Eric Rudolph ring a bell?

I'm so fuckin' sick of the "accountability" presidency, and its apologists.

Posted by BetelG

Sick? Since we took away your healthcare then you must be dying and going broke.

sorry.

Rob-
re: "Finding 1 man in an area where he is loved and supported by the population is extraordinarily difficult..."

Many things are difficult for Bush, it seems.

Rob-
re: "(if he doesn't get him before January 20)."

Yeah. That seems to be a priority to Republicans in the White House again - I'm sure it's the principle of the thing.

Many things are difficult for Bush, it seems.

Posted by BetelG

Yes Saint Obama would have strapped on his knives and guns and HALO dropped into Kabul on Sept 12, 2001 bringing back Obama's head on a pike. Thousands of locals supporting and hiding him be damned... this guy yells "change" a lot... they would have bowed before him and handed over Bin Laden without hesitation...

You assfucks actually seem to think Bush is the one over there... frankly I don't think our soldiers would appreciate you fruits calling them failures when every day they're risking their lives to find him. Show a little fucking gratitude.

Here's McCain on the subject of bin Laden:

Rob-
re: "You assfucks actually seem to think Bush is the one over there..."

We know he's not. Bush knew he wouldn't be when he joined the champagne unit and checked the "not overseas" box. What surprises me is that even at this late date you, like Bush, re-direct criticism of his failures of leadership on the troops.

"You assfucks actually seem to think Bush is the one over there... frankly I don't think our soldiers would appreciate you fruits calling them failures when every day they're risking their lives to find him."

In the famous words of Harry Truman: "The buck stops way down there"

Later, Rob.

What surprises me is that even at this late date you, like Bush, re-direct criticism of his failures of leadership on the troops.

Posted by BetelG

I think our troops have done a phenominal job and I unlike you don't base their success or failure on capturing or killing 1 man. The day after Bin Laden is killed the war will still be going on... he'll be replaced by Zawahiri, and he'll be replaced by his second in command and so on and so forth...

They no longer control Afghanistan, much of their leadership and experienced fighters are dead or in prison, and the two big targets are hiding in a cave... Zawahiri according to CBS may even be very seriously injured after the most recent strike in Pakistan.

Our troops have kicked the fuck out of Al Qaeda in both Afghanistan and Iraq (yes Iraq)...

We never caught Hitler, but I wouldn't say FDR and Truman are failures for that.

Here's McCain on the subject of bin Laden:

talkingpointsmemo.com

Posted by BetelG

Nice to see even TPM isn't above stealing lines from The Daily Show with Jon Stewart.

You Libs realize that republicans are allowed to watch that show too right? LOL

Nor could you say Truman (or FDR, but he was already dead) was a failure for not capturing Hitler. Hitler died.

But had he lived, damned right, not to capture the man and try him was failure of the first order. An amazing, unique failure.

Which is what we have with Bush and Osama.

Rob-
re: "I think our troops have done a phenominal job and I unlike you don't base their success or failure on capturing or killing 1 man."

I was blaming Bush, not the troops actually doing the fighting. If you didn't have your head so far up Bush's ass you would've picked up on that a while ago, not to put too fine a point on it.

But had he lived, damned right, not to capture the man and try him was failure of the first order. An amazing, unique failure.

What about in Japan end of WWII? Did we capture and put on trial their emperor? Pancho Villa comes to mind too...

If we're basing success for this war on the capture of one man, the day after he's caught is really going to suck for us when we have to start all over again at getting his replacement.

Who is the most stupid: Democrats or Republicans? It's a tie. This country didn't get fucked up like this for nothing.

Rob-
re: "If we're basing success for this war on the capture of one man, the day after he's caught is really going to suck for us when we have to start all over again at getting his replacement."

Had we got him October 11, 2001, his replacements would have been reluctant to fill the post. Instead, Bush was thinking about Iraq, and those doing Bush's thinking for him were thinking about Iraq.

Had we got him October 11, 2001, his replacements would have been reluctant to fill the post.

Where are you getting that from except wishful thinking?

Had we got him anyday over the last 7 years, Zawahiri would have taken his place and picked a new second in command.

How many #3 leaders in Al Qaeda have we captured or killed? Obviously catching Khalid Sheik Mohammed didn't deter the next parade of people stepping up to fill that position time and time again.

"In essence, we would be cutting out foreign supplier profits and experiencing to cost savings associated with vertical integration of the supply chain."

Not when we ship it overseas, as we do now.

"Had you read the first 10 pages of Econ 101, you would have learned about tax incidence"

And had you taught the first 10 pages, you'd know it's not always dollar for dollar. There IS some elasticity, as fallen consumption has proven.

"The oil producing countries of the region are, by all accounts, relatively stable at this point."

Well now you're just making shit up.

"Not when we ship it overseas, as we do now."
And your solution is tune ups and inflating our tires? What a joke. When you or your party start offering real solutions, you can question a plan that will make an impact. Until then, don't act like you're not a big part of the problem.

"And had you taught the first 10 pages, you'd know it's not always dollar for dollar. There IS some elasticity, as fallen consumption has proven."
Oh boy...you taught economics and you want to claim that buyer would not take the brunt of a gas tax hike? Wherever you taught, tuition was much too high.

". When you or your party start offering real solutions, you can question a plan that will make an impact. "

When did I use the word "all"? Hopefully you weren't a literature professor as well...

The claim was that violence in oil producing countries is quite low right now. Any future operations, real or contrived, do not affect that statement.

Unfortunately, you've allowed hate to blind your reason. Or maybe your inability to reason has made you blind... not sure.

"When did I use the word "all""

increased prices due to tax increases are paid for by the buyer, not the seller

Not some of the increases in price, "increased prices".

"you've allowed hate to blind your reason"

Hate? What a dumbass.

Still waiting for the first intelligent conversation with a lib.

Still waiting for a con to admit when he's wrong.

About?

Pretending that allowing increased drilling will effect gas prices in the near future is a dishonest tactic of lying Republicans who did nothing to increase supply when they controlled all three branches of government. Hypocrits every one.

Posted by danni at 2008

this is so FUCKIN WRONG.

bush threw out the presidential ban on drilling which didnt really care any weight and what happened.
PRICE WENT DOWN
if the us congress votes to drill more, the PRICE WILL COME DOWN FURTHER.
remember..........the price of oil is a "speculation" about the future, isnt it???????

YES I KNOW.........with other factors involved.

There are two issues with your assertion. First, oil companies enjoy a modest 10% or so profit margin. I use the word modest not to say that oil companies don't make a ton of money (they certainly do), but to point out that their profit is based on volume not price gouging. The notion of "windfall profit" taxes, if applied fairly and equitably across all industries would severely tie the hands of every American who is busting his/her tail to earn a living. Should we tell Hollywood actors that they can only make X dollars/movie? Should we tell Coke that you can only sell X cans of soda per year? Of course not.

Second, you obviously didn't take economics in school. When the demand curve for a product is highly inelastic (like it is for oil), increased prices due to tax increases are paid for by the buyer, not the seller. Had you read the first 10 pages of Econ 101, you would have learned about tax incidence...obviously you have not.

Okay Einstein, explain how during a time when US consumption of oil DROPPED nearly 5%, the oil company profits INCREASED to all-time quarterly records if their profit margin is steady? Its volume based according to you, so explain. When a commodity costs more, companies make more when they sell it, right? Isn't that an increase?

And on taxes, do oil companies pay sales taxes or excise taxes on raw crude? I don't think so, they only COLLECT taxes at the point of sale, hence, THE CONSUMER pays ALL THE TAX from pump sales, not the oil companies. In essence, the ONLY taxes oil companies pay themselves are PROFIT taxes (income) and that is on the money they made by selling their product.

If Exxon makes $11 billion a quarter and is taxed at 10% (made-up) their shareholders pay $1.1 billion in taxes themselves. If this rate was 25%, you can see the difference. How are they going to pass along this cost to the consumer when they don't control the pump price of gas? This type of increase is merely a REBATE to the government that provides protection so they can make any profits at all. And don't act like the US Navy isn't the petroleum protection fleet.

You are the one not understanding simple economics, not Danforth or myself, and you prove the point of this thread's title. No one has talked about placing a WPT across all industries because the rest of our industries don't make enormous profits merely from speculation and events driven by the idiotic Bush Administration (along with other global occurences) which HARM the well-being of the citizens its supposed to protect and help prosper.

No new refineries have been built in 30 years so ANY kink in supply lines leads to the IMMEDIATE enrichment of others not even affected by events! What happened to supply and demand? Doesn't SOMEONE want to make tons of money by increasing the domestic oil refining capacity? Why hasn't capitalism worked in this instance? Because it ISN'T capitalism, its a near-monopoly and idiots like you keep defending it against both common sense and civic duty.

While the U.S. oil industry wants access to more federal lands to help reduce reliance on foreign suppliers, American-based companies are shipping record amounts of gasoline and diesel fuel to other countries.

A record 1.6 million barrels a day in U.S. refined petroleum products were exported during the first four months of this year, up 33 percent from 1.2 million barrels a day over the same period in 2007. Shipments this February topped 1.8 million barrels a day for the first time during any month, according to final numbers from the Energy Department.

The surge in exports appears to contradict the pleas from the U.S. oil industry and the Bush administration for Congress to open more offshore waters and Alaskas Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to drilling.

We can help alleviate shortages by drilling for oil and gas in our own country,-- President Bush told reporters this week. We have got the opportunity to find more crude oil here at home.--

Chevron Corp. said Friday that its second-quarter profit rose 11% to a record $6 billion, even though production slipped and the San Ramon, Calif., company lost money refining and selling fuel.

Bush is a two term president. The GOP knows EXACTLY just how stupid voters are.

tony..
are you equally pissed that the government made more that quarter in taxes as well?
and they dont do anything for it

tony..
are you equally pissed that the government made more that quarter in taxes as well?
and they dont do anything for it

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

And thanks for insulting our fine US Navy. Tell them they don't provide protection for Big Oil's tanker fleets...then duck, cause a fist is coming your way....

It is not like high gas prices and dependence on foreign oil can't wait til congress gets a well deserved vacation right?
No crisis here...move along boys and girls.
Sheesh!

Posted by kerrin57

since there won't be any oil from new offshore wells until 2030, according to Dubya, the time difference is pretty miniscule. Of course, McSame and the GOPpers want the gullible to believe the rigs will appear as manna from heaven and the oil will flow immediately. And like nuclear energy, it'll be too cheap to meter.

Just How Stupid Does the GOP Think Voters Are?

As stupid as Democrat voters.

Just How Stupid Does the GOP Think Voters Are?

As stupid as Democrat voters.

But NEVER as imbecilic as you Ray....

"bush threw out the presidential ban on drilling which didnt really care any weight and what happened.
PRICE WENT DOWN"

I have caught you posting this same lie over and over BLT. The truth of the matter has been explained to you enough times now that my previous question....stupidity vs. dishonesty seems to be answered. Oh, you may well be pretty dumb but primarily you are dishonest.

Exxon reports an $11.7 billion profit for the last three months -- a new record in the history of corporatedom. The big five pocketed more than $140 billion last year. So Barack Obama suggests that we provide every American with a $1000 tax rebate to help pay for rising prices, paid for by levying an excess profits tax on the oil companies.

What does the maverick battler of big oil say? No way. McCain angrily dismisses the idea, saying that it would lead the oil companies to reduce their drilling in the US.

Now, all of this is based upon what might generously be called a big lie. The Big Oil companies, who hold leases for millions of acres that they aren't drilling on, have no intention of drilling for oil off our shores in the near future. They are simply looking to use the crisis to accumulate rights to drill in the future.

Moreover, even if they started tomorrow, it wouldn't help. As Bill Sher of the Campaign for America's Future detailed, Bush's own Energy Department reports that off shore drilling would produce no relief until about 2030. (McCain disputes that saying that we'd see oil in a year or two. His source? Anonymous Big Oil executives who no doubt have only the public's interest in mind). And once the oil came on line, the Energy Department tells us, it would save us about 6 cents a gallon off the price of gas. (Ironically, McCain regularly sneers Obama for suggesting that simply filling our tires would have more effect on supply and demand than drilling off shore. But again, according to the Bush Environmental Protection Agency, Obama had that right. If every American kept their tires filled, they'd save the equivalent of 12 cents a gallon starting tomorrow. Drilling sounds muscular but it is simply hot air that would be better used filling up tires.

Just because you want to shut your eyes, plug your ears and yell doesn't mean Al Qaeda hasn't taken a serious ass thumping over the last 7 years.

yes, the top two still are out there and that needs to be dealt with, and I think it will soon, but just because they're still in hiding doesn't change the facts... no matter how hard you wish.

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole at 2008-08-04 03:15 PM | Reply |

You dumb fucking quiff. Did you even read the article?

"""And whatever its recent losses, al-Qaeda is not about to disappear. It is a resilient movement, with a proven ability to fill any gaps in its ranks rather quickly. Abu Khabab, long a marked man, has doubtless passed on his knowledge to others in preparation for death.""""

Thumping indeed. Now how much did that grand failure cost?

You dumb fucking quiff. Did you even read the article?

Read? Are you kidding? LOL!!!!

If conclusion-jumping were an acknowledged competition, Rob would be world class, if not the current world record holder....

But NEVER as imbecilic as you Ray....

Posted by tonyroma

Calling me names doesn't make you any smarter. You proved that to the last time when you turned my question about Obama's willingness to attack Pakistan into an argument over what a dead politician said.

I'll be standing on the sidelines watching Washington continue to destroy this country. It doesn't matter who the figurehead is, Obama or McCain. So dream your stupid dreams while you can, asshole. The nightmare cometh.

I'll be standing on the sidelines watching

Exactly!!!!