what the hell is "mash"?

Mash? I am assuming they mean mashed potatoes?

According to what I hear, these people were on a waiting list to eat, they were due to eat in five months. That's the way national health systems work.

"What a bunch of whiners, these people have a mental obsession with eatihg." -- Phil Gramm

what the hell is "mash"?

NANC

Mobile Army Surgical Hospital

An average of 195,000 people in the USA died due to potentially preventable, in-hospital medical errors in each of the years 2000, 2001 and 2002, according to a new study of 37 million patient records that was released today by HealthGrades, the healthcare quality company.

An average of 195,000 people in the USA died due to potentially preventable, in-hospital medical errors in each of the years 2000, 2001 and 2002, according to a new study of 37 million patient records that was released today by HealthGrades, the healthcare quality company.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

Looks like there better off staying away from the USA's hospitals.

Posted by Scotty at 2008-08-04 02:30 AM

By my math, thats 1/2% of the patients that died due to "potentially" preventable errors.

Theres a whole lotta mud in that "potentially" word..

scotty - do you believe socializing/nationalizing health care in the u.s. will make it a better system?

Nanc do you think our current system is A-OK?

National health care will only work if Obama is president.

/and he is right?

......in Western Europe, Japan, Australia & Canada....

......they have national health care systems that have BETTER OUTCOMES than our systems at HALF the cost or less.......

......and everyone there is covered........

......but.......

......I think the insurance companies, and health care industry has got the lawmakers in their pockets, so we will be the only first world country in the world without an affordle, accessible health care system......

.....and frankly.....Americans are too stupid as a group to know better....they have been brainwashed to pay more, expect less, and like it........

......they defend a system that works against them....

It seems like we in the US are offended at the idea that we may have to pay to help someone else out, in contrast when we are in trouble we want someone to help us out.

salaryman - don't we ALREADY have enough social programs in place for those who truly need it?

Everyone knows that an accountant figuring profit margin is the best person to decide what treatment is needed by a patient. Everyone knows that the insurance company that the accountant works for is primarily interested in providing health care to patients and not profit to stock holders. Everyone knows that insurance companies pay all claims that should be covered under the policy.

Pretending that isolated incidents of the nationalized system in Canada (or elsewher) while pretending we don't have similar problems here is just plain dishonest.

"Everyone knows that an accountant figuring profit margin is the best person to decide what treatment is needed by a patient."

Accountants don't determine what you "need." They determine what is covered by the policy that you chose. And if you think that governments don't have the same (if not worse) budget constraints than any private corporation, you're insane. At least with private insurance, I have options.

So joe if something is not covered but necessary what then?

Nanc, you want cuts? You willing to cut the outofcontrol spending on defense?

**** At least with private insurance, I have options.

Posted by JOE *****

......sure you do.......

......if the insurance company says that you have a "pre-existing" condition......you have the option of dying or going bankrupt........

Joe, accountants do too determine what services they will pay for REGARDLESS of the details of the contract too. My own daughter works for a company who's only source of revenue is collecting claims from insurance companies that are denied even thought the policies say the services are covered. They contract with hospitals and it is a multi-million dollar business with over 100 employees and they are not by any means the largest in their industry. Most major health insurance companies automatically deny a good portion of virtually every claim and then force the hospitals to go through rebilling, calling repeatedly, etc. before they will pay up. Individuals do not have the time nor knowledge to do this for themselves adequately in most cases.

......they defend a system that works against them....

Posted by skizziks

who here does that? I realize the situation sucks for many people but are you accusing others of defending a system that you think works against them?

Or am I misunderstanding you?

Most major health insurance companies automatically deny a good portion of virtually every claim and then force the hospitals to go through rebilling, calling repeatedly, etc. before they will pay up.

Danni,

I work for one of these companies and I personally have had 900 people covered at once in my territory....probably about 40 small employers.

I have NEVER gotten this complaint from one person......ever.

......if the insurance company says that you have a "pre-existing" condition......you have the option of dying or going bankrupt........

Explain to me how you think a "pre-existing" condition works?

Skizziks,

I would like clarification of your point about defending a system that works against you.

I also would like for you to explain to everyone here how a pre-exisisting condition works.

Danni,

Defend your point about "most major insurance companies...blah blah blah"

I'll check back later tonight.

***** who here does that? I realize the situation sucks for many people but are you accusing others of defending a system that you think works against them?
Or am I misunderstanding you?
Posted by eberly ******

........Eb........every time there is a discussion about public health care......members of this site denounce it as "socialistic, communist" ....anything at all to demonize it.....

....they are firmly convinced that public health care is a disease that would destroy America.......

......well.....healthcare is just another service that the entire public requires.......we do not say that paying for public schools, the police,the armed forces, the firefighters, the EPA or FDA are COMMUNIST services.......

.......but somehow if they vaccinate kids against childhood diseases, even if the kids parents can't afford it, then we have committed an unforgivable socialist act.......

.......the fact is that enough Americans have been brainwashed into thinking that public health is communist, by the healthcare industry who profits from it , that chances that we will ever get the public care we need, are slim.......

....Eb.......

.....did you know that in other Western countries people do not go bankrupt from illnesses the way Americans do ?......

.......we are being lied to.......and the best way to judge that is by our politicians........

.....did you know that Obama, Bush and McCain all have the type of public health care you would call "Communist"......the type they have in Western Europe ?.......

......its good enough for them......but not for YOU.......think about it.......

......its good enough for them......but not for YOU.......think about it.......

Is it necessary to assign a position to me everytime you are proven to not know shit.

I asked you to tell me WHO here has done this.

You failed.....go figure.

I also asked you to define for me what you think a "pre-existing condition" is.

You have deliberately dodged the question...and for one reason....you don't know shit from apple butter and here you are espousing how stupid others regarding the very issue you have been shown to know absolutely nothing about.

did you know that Obama, Bush and McCain all have the type of public health care you would call "Communist"......

No I didn't. And of course I would call it "communist".

You are also a pedohpile.

Sound fair???

**I asked you to tell me WHO here has done this.**

........Rob the asshole......for one...

**I also asked you to define for me what you think a "pre-existing condition" is.**

......it's a pretense health insurance companies use to deny people coverage, they claim that you had a disease before you took out the insurance, and they have a claus in the coverage that says "pre-existing conditions" are not covered.....

**you don't know shit from apple butter**

........apple butter ??.....what part of the country are you from....we grow apples around here but I've never heard of apple butter......

**No I didn't. And of course I would call it "communist".**

......well think about it for a minute....the members of the Senate, Congress, the Administration have 100% publicly funded coverage for EVERYTHING........they say that the country can't afford this kind of coverage for all the citizens...but every other Western country can afford it......its good enough for the politicians but NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU.........

**You are also a pedohpile. **

........geez Eb....where's that come from ?.....I have four kids of my own and coach little league and volunteer for all kinds of community groups...

no salaryman, but i'd be willing to accidentally trip over your life support cord...

j/k

we do not say that paying for public schools, the police,the armed forces, the firefighters, the EPA or FDA are COMMUNIST services.......

Are people like you dense on purpose? Does it have to be constantly pointed out that there is a major difference between FEDERAL government and STATE government? Schools, police, and firefighters are almost entirely funded by state governments as they should be. Exactly the reason that the Department of Education needs to go. Nearly everything is worse when you nationalize it. But both dems and reps are so convinced they are right, they believe that everybody in the nation should live by the decisions of mainly corrupt representatives that have repeatedly demonstrated disdain for the will of the people, rather than local, voter approved programs which will better serve the needs of local populations.

If socialized health care is needed, then it should be voluntary and done at the state level where the programs can best be tailored for the needs of those people. National health care would just be another powergrab for our runaway government.

there are thousands of people from all over the world make thier way to the houston medical center.......home of the late great bebakey......they arent spending all that money to get to montreal or france.

and I heard a lady on the radio last month who finnaly made it to the mayo clinic where she was told she had a brain tumor that was going to kill her but in canada she had to wait to see the right doctor and wasnt able to. she made her way to the usa beacause that socialized medicine was letting her die.

I've read through Obama's healthcare outline, and there are actually 2 parts of his plan I could get behind, tweaked in some way or another.

yeah nanc.
it was some lady who was on hannity about two weeks ago.

she was told she had to wait 6 weeks or maybe longer before she could have whatever test she needed. mayo clinic did it and sent her almost immediately into surgery.
she was going blind........

What annoys me about the way the NHS is characterized is that the story is always completely one sided. You would think from listening to Rush/Boortz/Hannity that people in Britain have no choice BUT to use the NHS which is bullshit. There is a thriving private health service over there also and if you wish you can go private. Noone is telling you you have to use the NHS and if you have the money you have a choice. My mother almost always uses the NHS but in one instance she had to have knee surgery, didn't want to wait so she went private and had it done almost immediately. I know the system has its faults but at least over there people do have a choice unlike over here. I had a client over here just recently who went to the ER with chest pains, they did all the tests, found out he had 3 blocked arteries. The cardiologist was called out he arrived at the hospital and discharged the guy when he found out he didn't have insurance. He simply refused to do the surgery cause he wasn't going to get paid. Should I judge your entire health system based upon that once instance? No, but that is what people are doing with the NHS. And I agree you have never heard of anyone in Britain having to declare bankrupcy due to an illness or injury. Criticise the system all you want once you know the FACTS but don't bad mouth an entire system based on one or two stories in newspapers.

Criticise the system all you want once you know the FACTS but don't bad mouth an entire system based on one or two stories in newspapers.

The only fact I need to worry about is that I don't want my health in the hands of a government that I do not currently trust to be free from corruption or competent. Rather than address the problems that are causing a rise in health care costs, people are willing to literally put their lives in the hands of an already way to bloated and powerful government. That makes no sense no matter what national healthplan is proposed.

Litlebritdifrnt: Just a question - With the high taxes that pay for the 'free' medical in the UK, who has the money for the private doctor besides the wealthy?

I have not been to the UK since the 70s and then being in my 20s I was too busy having fun to have leaned about the system over there.

" With the high taxes that pay for the 'free' medical in the UK, who has the money for the private doctor besides the wealthy? "

The UK spends less of its GDP on health care than the US. And still covers everyone.

The UK spends less of its GDP on health care than the US. And still covers everyone.

Posted by Danforth at 2008-08-05 01:26 PM | Rep

The guy pulling his own teeth would probably disagree with your "everyone" claim.

NANC, I don't know where you live, but in my part of the United States there could be a dentist living right next to you but if you don't have money and you don't have insurance you, too, find the pliers.

we have basic dental insurance we pay for, zed - the rest we work out payments for - thankfully, i'm the only one who's needed any work in our family in the past ten years - crown replacements - one-third down and the rest in payments. dentists and doctors WILL work with you if you're willing. seems to me that anybody else would qualify for some sort of state aid already.