This can only mean one thing: Bush has AIDS.

This can only mean one thing: there's oil in the Horn of Africa.

No wait, if there were oil there Bush would want mass death.

So there's no oil in the Horn of Africa.

Why is Bush wasting billion of our tax dollars where there is no oil for Danni's foreign-built car?

.....last week....

Why isn't Bush doing more about AIDS? America has a duty. America should lead compassionately.

THE DR LEFT

....today....

Well...we'll see. But, you can be assured the DR LEFT will speak.

aid workers and officials are concerned that Bush's quest to leave a legacy is overshadowing the most pressing needs.

"What is the use of keeping people alive with AIDS if they are just going to die of starvation?"

Maybe someday the stupid M.F.s in Africa will figure out what causes the spread of AIDS.

"Maybe someday the stupid M.F.s in Africa will figure out what causes the spread of AIDS."

And maybe those who look to the Catholic Church for guidance will actually get the truth; that might be a start. Instead, the RCC claims the HIV virus is small enough to pass through a condom, and some condoms are already infected with AIDS.

And maybe those who look to the Catholic Church for guidance will actually get the truth; that might be a start. Instead, the RCC claims the HIV virus is small enough to pass through a condom, and some condoms are already infected with AIDS.

Posted by Danforth

Does the church really say that, Dan? Can you provide a link?

But if you're looking for health advice from the church, you've got bigger problems than getting AIDS, I guess.

HC,

"Does the church really say that, Dan? Can you provide a link?"

Definitely not on both. At worst one ignorant priest said it and someone like Danforth dishonestly elevated it to the level of church doctorine.

And if you're fucking someone who has AIDs and relying on a condom to protect you, you're complete moron anyway. Teaching people who live in an AIDS infested area that condoms are the answer isn't helping them in the least.

Keeping your genitals away from those who have AIDs is the best way to avoid contracting the disease sexually.

You got to know that the CONSERVATIVE RIGHT, is just pissed by the Presidents actions concerning AIDS. To be fair the action by this President on AIDS may be the only good and decent thing this Administration has done in 8 years in office.

It still makes him the worst President in American History, what a waste of an opportunity to serve the Country........

Keeping your genitals away from those who have AIDs is the best way to avoid contracting the disease sexually.

Tell that to all the teenage girls who are raped by infected men, then deliver infected babies.

I apologize Danforth, it appears the Vatican is saying that. Wow.

Still, telling people that condoms will protect them from AIDS is like telling people it is safe to drive drunk if they are wearing a seatbelt.

"and someone like Danforth dishonestly elevated it to the level of church doctorine."

They said it in their official positions, dipshit. One was a Vatican spokesman, for Christ's sake.

"Teaching people who live in an AIDS infested area that condoms are the answer isn't helping them in the least."

But teaching people lies about condom use in an AIDS-infested area is genocide.

"Tell that to all the teenage girls who are raped by infected men, then deliver infected babies."

If its unavoidable, its unavoidable. Do you think rapists would wear condoms if only for better education? LOL.

Bush has his problems, all well documented here. But on Africa and Aids, he has done more than any other president. When he visited Africa a while back he was very well recieved.

Good for him.

"They said it in their official positions, dipshit. One was a Vatican spokesman, for Christ's sake."

You're right. My bad.

"But teaching people lies about condom use in an AIDS-infested area is genocide."

How's that? Abstaining is a better way of preventing the disease than condom use. Seems these people aren't listening to the Church or people pushing condoms or anyone else. They just do what they want, which is to fuck strangers without rubbers, and they get AIDS as a result. It is dishonest to present half the church's message and then call it genocide. If they were listening to the church they wouldn't be spreading AIDS.

Dan, thanks for the links. disgusting is right.

Keeping your genitals away from those who have AIDs is the best way to avoid contracting the disease sexually.

Posted by Sully

Too bad that many infections occur during heterosexual intercourse with a person's spouse, huh, silly?

"silly" was a typo. sorry.

"How's that?"

The Catholic Church could save a lot of lives and suffering if it would not only endorse condoms in that area of the world, but educate the populace on the usage. Instead of that, or instead of remaining silent, they actively discourage condom use, despite knowing the consequences. The Catholic Church is the lifeguard pointing to the NO SWIMMING sign while people are drowning. And exacerbating their guilt is the fact nowhere in the Bible is there a direct prohibition against condoms.

"Too bad that many infections occur during heterosexual intercourse with a person's spouse, huh, silly?"

Well if you marry someone with AIDS then you aren't doing a very good job of keeping your junk away from someone who has AIDS, now are you? In fact, you are doing the worst job possible.

And you think my comment was silly......

Condoms work, Sully. I'm surprised that even has to be pointed out.

aid workers and officials are concerned that Bush's quest to leave a legacy is overshadowing the most pressing needs.

"What is the use of keeping people alive with AIDS if they are just going to die of starvation?"

In all seriousness I hope this guy gets a pat on the back with a machete...

I understand this president isn't popular by any definition of the word, but 48 Billion dollars to fight disease in Africa should be met with nothing but a heartfelt "thank you" and that's it.

"Instead of that, or instead of remaining silent, they actively discourage condom use, despite knowing the consequences."

The main way they discourge condom use is by telling people not to screw - which does not have any medical consequences other than blue balls.

You keep deliberately leaving out the most important part of the message and that is dishonest.

Good job Bush. This is a serious problem that deserves our attention.

"Condoms work, Sully. I'm surprised that even has to be pointed out."

I'm surprised you feel the need to pretend your comment was necessary.

"The main way they discourge condom use is by telling people not to screw -"

Bullshit. They tell them if they're going to screw anyway, don't add the sin of condom use to the mix. You keep deliberately leaving out the most important part of the message and that is dishonest.

The AIDS problem in Africa with hundreds of millions infected is just another example of an uncivilized group of people who are unequiped to do anything right. We need to recolonize Africa and teach them how real human beings are meant to live.

To blame this on the Catholic Church or Bush is absurd.

Well if you marry someone with AIDS then you aren't doing a very good job of keeping your junk away from someone who has AIDS, now are you? In fact, you are doing the worst job possible.

And you think my comment was silly......

Posted by Sully

Two things here, actually three:

1. people in the poorest nations in Africa don't get AIDS tests before they get married. hell, they don't even have to here.

2. It is often the case that one spouse steps out, gets aids, brings it home to the other. But condoms aren't the answer here, of course.

3. I said "silly" was a typo, silly.

We need to recolonize Africa and teach them how real human beings are meant to live.

Posted by fwthom

You first, thom. when you start making progress, give us a call.

Bush OKs $48 Billion for AIDS

This should instead read, "Bush Flushes $48 Billion Down Great African Toilet".

I'm so glad I pay taxes to help Africa along in their continued (albeit very, very slow) evolution from sex-crazed monkeys!

"They tell them if they're going to screw anyway, don't add the sin of condom use to the mix."

That isn't true. They are uncompromisingly against having sex out of wedlock. I find it unrealistic. But you want to pretend that people are getting AIDS by listening the Catholic Church and that simply isn't true. If they were listening to the Church, they wouldn't be getting AIDS - except in the case where they marry someone who has AIDS. And in that case, expecting condom use to save you is ludicrous. You screw someone who has AIDS every night and you're eventually getting it condom or not.

Ghana is one of the few success stories.. Their leadership was wise enough to ignore the Catholic church and their prognostications.

" And in that case, expecting condom use to save you is ludicrous. "

You're a fucking idiot. Lots of couples survive today with only one having HIV, and it's due, partially, to the judicious use of condoms.

"You screw someone who has AIDS every night and you're eventually getting it condom or not."

Good friends of mine prove you wrong every day.

You screw someone who has AIDS every night and you're eventually getting it condom or not.

Posted by Sully

This one you should definitely be responsible for providing a link proving your statement.

Thing is, for a couple of reasons, I know that link doesn't exist.

AIDS was created by the U.S. government to wipe out blacks - HERM, Rev. Wright.

" It is often the case that one spouse steps out, gets aids, brings it home to the other. But condoms aren't the answer here, of course."

But how do you not see the inconsistency in blaming the Church for such a situation? The cheating spouse isn't using the rubber because the Church said not to BUT the same pious individual, who apparently does whatever the Church says, is cheating on their spouse? Do you people realize what the Church says about adultery?

Blaming the church for an adulterer not using a condom is just ludicrous.

Yes, these dumbshits should use rubbers. But the reason they don't has nothing to do with listening to the Church. If they were listening to the Church, they wouldn't be screwing in the first place. To not understand this requires willful ignorance.

Me! Me! Me! Me! Me!

Posted by ChickenInOven at 2008-07-31 10:17 AM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

I thought you people didn't believe in evolution.

Yes, these dumbshits should use rubbers. But the reason they don't has nothing to do with listening to the Church. If they were listening to the Church, they wouldn't be screwing in the first place. To not understand this requires willful ignorance.

Posted by Sully at 2008-07-31 10:26 AM | Reply

I completely agree.
Anyone that argues differently is clearly using selective reasoning.

Aids isn't a big deal. Look at me.

MAGIC JOHNSON

"Thing is, for a couple of reasons, I know that link doesn't exist."

You've never had one break? Or fall off? Or used one that had a hole in it?

So, no, I'm not going to provide a link that says condoms are not 100% effective against AIDS. Just like I'm not going to provide a link convincing you that the sky is blue.

Sully, I'm talking about the people who get hiv from the adulterous spouse. you hang the innocent from the same branch you hang the guilty.

I thought you people didn't believe in evolution.

It's hard to deny when you can open up a National Geographic and see photographic proof of the missing links right there.

"Anyone that argues differently is clearly using selective reasoning."

It seems to me "selective reasoning" should be applied to a group who choses death over education, lies over the truth, and imagines a Biblical ban on condoms which doesn't exist.

Let's get back to reality: the RCC has shown no qualms about spreading lies to depress condom use in the most AIDS-ravaged part of the world. And to folks looking to them for the truth.

MAGIC JOHNSON

Posted by ride_on at 2008-07-31 10:28 AM | Reply

Magic johnson jokes would really liven this party up!

According to University of Durban-Westville anthropology lecturer and researcher Suzanne Leclerc-Madlala, it is an increasingly typical scenario, played out daily in hundreds of homes throughout South Africa as AIDS carriers target girls under eight years old for sex in the belief that it will cure them of the dreaded disease.

As the deadly virus tightens its stranglehold on South Africa, justice officials and AIDS workers say that in KwaZuluNatal alone at least five rape cases involving girls under eight are being dealt with daily in every magistrate's court in the province.

An in-depth investigation by Leclerc-Madlala, who is completing a doctoral thesis on AIDS and related gender issues, suggests that a popular myth that sex with a virgin is the cure for AIDS could be the root cause of this shocking upsurge in child rapes.

Yep, condoms are sure going to help these people. If the 48bil was spent on education it would help future generations come out of the Jurassic era.

As to the RCC enabling the spread of AIDS - If you don't like what they preach, don't do it.

"Yes, these dumbshits should use rubbers. But the reason they don't has nothing to do with listening to the Church."

Bwahahahahahahaha! Great joke.

Wait...you were serious?!? Nah...nobody's that dense: the Catholic Church is a HUGE influence on these people's lives.

Of course, regardless of the magnitude, it doesn't alter the lies.

It seems to me "selective reasoning" should be applied to a group who choses death over education, lies over the truth, and imagines a Biblical ban on condoms which doesn't exist.

Posted by Danforth at 2008-07-31 10:34 AM | Reply

It seems to me the two groups need not be mutually exclusive.
They (church) are telling the dumb-asses 2 stories. You choose to only focus on one and claim that is where the blame lie.
You conveniently ignore that they also tell them not to fuck before marriage and fuck around outside of that marriage. The reason you don't want to address that is because it would ruin your talking point that the RCC is at fault for the AIDS pandemic in africa.

If they listened to only the parts they want to hear then clearly they aren't too interested in what the church says.
Beyond that, it doesn't take billions of dollars to tell the dumb africans that they live in an aids infected shithole and that fucking somebody sans condom is a bad idea.
(To head somebody off at the pass...Rapists aren't going to suddenly become educated on condom use)

" If you don't like what they preach"

They were preaching the HIV virus is small enough to pass through condom walls.

That's a lie.

I DON'T LIKE when they preach lies. My mother Church should be held to higher standards, like...it's own...you know, that thingy about bearing false witness? And when the false witness leads to suffering and death....

"Sully, I'm talking about the people who get hiv from the adulterous spouse. you hang the innocent from the same branch you hang the guilty."

Not really. I'm holding people personally reponsible for their own actions instead of blaming the Catholic Church for the fact that people are ignorant and horny.

In your scenario, a woman goes out and cheats on her husband. She allegedly doesn't have the other guy use a rubber for no other reason than what she heard at church and she apparently does whatever the Church says (somehow she misses the part about adultery which is just so realistic). Then she goes home and has sex with her husband, who doesn't use a rubber not because it feels better and he should be able to trust his wife, but again because he is a mindless follower of the Church. And he gets AIDS as a result.

And who is to blame? Not the aduleterous wife! The Church!

Sorry but that is the biggest pile of bullshit I've ever heard. So why blame the Church for the African AIDS epidemic? Seems to me its because you either feel like it or because someone told you to believe it..... It doesn't stand up to common sense scrutiny.

Wait...you were serious?!? Nah...nobody's that dense: the Catholic Church is a HUGE influence on these people's lives.

Posted by Danforth at 2008-07-31 10:37 AM | Reply

So then why don't they listen to the parts about no sex before marriage and no fucking around outside of that marriage?
There's that selective reasoning again...

"Nah...nobody's that dense: the Catholic Church is a HUGE influence on these people's lives."

Not their sex lives because they are clearly doing whatever and whoever they want.

No matter how dense you pretend to be on this point it doesn't change the reality of it.

" it would ruin your talking point that the RCC is at fault for the AIDS pandemic in africa."

Get real: do you believe they bear no responsibility, even after lying to those who look to them for the truth? The fact remains, the RCC could go a long way to stem the AIDS tide, and rather than remain silent or noncommittal, they actively campaign against all condom use, to the point of disseminating lies. And where are the Vatican corrections?!?

I never said ALL the blame lays at their feet. I doubt you believe NONE does. How much blame do you think is fair?

So who is going to monitor the money goes to fighting aids? Haven't there been billions of dollars raised for these same African countries over the last twenty years? Funny how these countries aids numbers have not gone down yet their arms and government killings went up.

"No matter how dense you pretend to be on this point it doesn't change the reality of it."

And no matter how dense you pretend to be, it doesn't change the reality the RCC has a lot of sway in their lives, and are lying to their flock about condoms.

Good friends of mine [with AIDS] prove you wrong every day.

Posted by Danforth

Want to know why Danforth is being so pigheaded? Read the above. He's just defending his filthy friends, who couldn't possibly be held responsible for their nasty, nasty diseases.

"I never said ALL the blame lays at their feet."

No you just said they were guilty of genocide, which isn't an extreme position at all.

"So then why don't they listen to the parts about no sex before marriage and no fucking around outside of that marriage?"

The same reason American Catholics don't. Not a student of human nature, eh?

Wait...you were serious?!? Nah...nobody's that dense: the Catholic Church is a HUGE influence on these people's lives.

Is that why they all have 15 wives and every few years hack apart the neighboring tribe?

The Catholic Church has a huge influence on millions of Americans, including myself, but i'm still not going to drill some slag with no bag because a guy in a pointy hat says its wrong to do so.

You're trying to blame the Catholic Church cuz you're a PC douche and are desperately trying to blame Whitey for AIDS in Africa.

"No you just said they were guilty of genocide, which isn't an extreme position at all"

Do you deny their lies lead to death? Do you believe the lies are willful? What would you call willful lies, knowingly leading to peoples' death?

FUCK AFRICA..

They can not overn nor feed themselves, I say LET THEM DIE.. Tey are nothing but animals anyway. Stupid animals. They know about the AIS problem, they know they are starving, yet the keep having children, just like animals who do not know any better.

We need to take a page from Hitlers book and lessen their population.

Besides, this 48B could go to welfare reciepients and illegals.

"You're trying to blame the Catholic Church cuz you're a PC douche"

I'm blaming people who lied about condoms which then lead to the death and suffering of others.

The "douche" is you for backing those willful liars.

"blame Whitey"

The priest who made some of the claims was black. What's your problem?

Get real: do you believe they bear no responsibility, even after lying to those who look to them for the truth?

Danforth,
Ethiopia has no RCC makeup. Or Zimbawe and I would imagine most of the African countries this money is designed to help.

I never said ALL the blame lays at their feet. I doubt you believe NONE does. How much blame do you think is fair?

Posted by Danforth at 2008-07-31 10:46 AM | Reply

I'll take a hit for assuming you were laying all the blame on the Catholic Church.
As for what is fair? That's a tough question.

Common sense says people are responsible for their own actions. The church may enable the stupid with their bad rubber info, yet they offer celibacy and an anti-adultery stance that would help cripple the problem.

If we're assigning blame for the rubber portion, how much credit do you give them for their stance on monogamous marriage and no pre-marital sex?

"He's just defending his filthy friends..."

Who have more humanity and dignity than you ever will.

The same reason American Catholics don't. Not a student of human nature, eh?

Posted by Danforth at 2008-07-31 10:50 AM | Reply | Flag

Is there an Aids epidemic here that I missed?
Besides, are you comparing the sway the RCC has over the Africans is the same as the one they hold over Americans?

I think that was way off base.

I'm blaming people who lied about condoms which then lead to the death and suffering of others.

Hmmmm... Let's think this out... someone tells me condoms don't stop AIDS, but like every other woman in my country has AIDS... call me crazy, but I'm gonna keep my juink in my pants for a while.

The priest who made some of the claims was black. What's your problem?

Posted by Danforth

Are you just blaming an individual idiot priest, or are you taking issue with the Catholic Church as a whole for what this priest said...

"...but again because he is a mindless follower of the Church. And he gets AIDS as a result."

mindless is your word, not mine... a person has faith? fine. I wasn't making any judgments about that. All I was saying was that even if the church is not going to encourage condom use, the least they could do is STFU about their supposed ineffectiveness.

"The same reason American Catholics don't. Not a student of human nature, eh?"

I'm not the one forwarding the arguement that despite human nautre, people blindly listen to the Church where their sexual behavior is concerned.

You are.

" The church may enable the stupid with their bad rubber info,"

The stupid? What do you think the average amount of schooling is? All due respect, I believe if we were over there, we'd be overwhelmed by "the stupid".

"If we're assigning blame for the rubber portion, how much credit do you give them for their stance on monogamous marriage and no pre-marital sex?"

The same I give them in America.

Part of this includes being a realist: one can, for example, tell teens not to ever have sex, but pretending they never will is ostrich behavior. So we try to educate them as well, including the use of condoms. Suggesting abstinence, and sex education don't have to be mutually exclusive. But can you imagine the reaction if we began teaching the HIV virus was small enough to pass through a condom wall?!?

"Are you just blaming an individual idiot priest, or are you taking issue with the Catholic Church as a whole for what this priest said..."

Both. But what does "Whitey" have to do with it?

The stupid? What do you think the average amount of schooling is? All due respect, I believe if we were over there, we'd be overwhelmed by "the stupid".

Posted by Danforth

Zero to minimal formal education. That doesn't mean they are born without eyes and ears. You'd think even the dumbest guy or gal would only need to be told once or twice that Aids kills and that you get Aids from fucking infected people sans rubbers. Hell, they must know dozens of the victims personally.
As was pointed out, they also believe fucking an 8 year old girl will cure them. The RCC didn't put that out there.

Long story short, just like with the muslims, there are cultural differences that are almost impossible to overcome. The church should either retract the rubber info or never repeat it again.

Part of this includes being a realist: one can, for example, tell teens not to ever have sex, but pretending they never will is ostrich behavior. So we try to educate them as well, including the use of condoms. Suggesting abstinence, and sex education don't have to be mutually exclusive. But can you imagine the reaction if we began teaching the HIV virus was small enough to pass through a condom wall?!?

What does our teachings here have to do with the aids numbers in Africa? What part of their lifestyles and religions have to do with ours? Or this thread?

"Besides, are you comparing the sway the RCC has over the Africans is the same as the one they hold over Americans?"

No. I believe it's greater over the Africans, especially when you tell a relatively uneducated populace that condoms cause AIDS, and HIV will pass through a rubber.

Both. But what does "Whitey" have to do with it?

Posted by Danforth

Nothing it was a stupid comment by me... everyone knows the Japs run the Roman Catholic Church...

"All I was saying was that even if the church is not going to encourage condom use, the least they could do is STFU about their supposed ineffectiveness. "

In my opinion people shouldn't listen to the Church at all.

But if you are going to say that the Church's teachings are causing harm, you have to look at the whole message and not just the parts that are harmful. Abstinence would make the whole "to use the condom or not" debate pointless. Is abstinence unrealistic? Yes. So is transsubstantiation. And so is saying that people who are committing a sin in the Church's eyes by having sex out of wedlock are not using condoms because they care what the Church thinks. Beacuse if they cared what the Church thinks......

"Besides, are you comparing the sway the RCC has over the Africans is the same as the one they hold over Americans?"

No. I believe it's greater over the Africans, especially when you tell a relatively uneducated populace that condoms cause AIDS, and HIV will pass through a rubber.

Posted by Danforth at 2008-07-31 11:15 AM |

The article said Ethiopia. What is the makeup of RCC in Ethiopia? Or Zimbawe? Or any of the other African countries where aids is rampant? Your argument doesn't hold water.

"What does our teachings here have to do with the aids numbers in Africa?"

We're realists here, preaching abstinence but taking precautions anyway. There, they're preaching abstinence, and telling folks not to take precautions, that the precautions will give them the disease.

"What part of their lifestyles and religions have to do with ours? Or this thread?"

Hello? $48B to Africa to combat AIDS, due (at least in small part) to the RCC's stance---including willful lies---on condoms in the most AIDS-ravaged part of the world. Are you paying attention?

"What is the makeup of RCC in Ethiopia? Or Zimbawe?"

If that's your argument, make it and link to articles.

"In my opinion people shouldn't listen to the Church at all."

Well, that's kinda what I implied upthread. Especially if you're looking to them for info on healthcare.

Hello? $48B to Africa to combat AIDS, due (at least in small part) to the RCC's stance---including willful lies---on condoms in the most AIDS-ravaged part of the world. Are you paying attention?

Posted by Danforth at 2008-07-31 11:20 AM

I am waiting for any link proving a Roman Catholic influence in these aids ravaged countries. I gave you two examples and you have given nothing but the RCC. As though they have any nominal influence on said countries.

What is the makeup of RCC in Ethiopia? Or Zimbawe?"

If that's your argument, make it and link to articles.

Posted by Danforth at 2008-07-31 11:22 AM

I tried at 10:54. Maybe you missed it. Or maybe you didn't want the facts and kept reeling.

" You'd think even the dumbest guy or gal would only need to be told once or twice that Aids kills and that you get Aids from fucking infected people sans rubbers."

Unless they're listening to the RCC, who'll tell them rubbers will give them the virus, or at least pass it through anyway.

"As was pointed out, they also believe fucking an 8 year old girl will cure them. The RCC didn't put that out there."

IIRC, the one they put out was regarding 8yr old boys.

j/k

"The church should either retract the rubber info or never repeat it again."

I agree with you, up to the word "or". Leaving the lie out there carries it's own sin. Add that to the fact, as a Catholic, our own book charges us to retrieve all the pillow feathers we have released.

48 billion should go to this guy.

Posted by ELCIDCE90

beat me to it, elcid.

Bush obviously has not seen the article yet HC. Of course he is 'slightly' miopic at times :)

Unless they're listening to the RCC, who'll tell them rubbers will give them the virus, or at least pass it through anyway.

Posted by Danforth at 2008-07-31 11:32 AM | Reply

This is where the argument becomes circular.
If they were actually listening to the catholic church they wouldn't be fucking before marriage or outside of it.

I don't want to take this to an absurd level, but I'm going to...Why do they hack off arms, mutilate villages, etc?...It's because they are batshit crazy over there. The RCC isn't helping matters, but that regions problem is much much bigger than the RCC.

"(Zimbabwe) has no RCC makeup."

I'm sure the bishop will be surprised to hear the news.

"In Zimbabwe, I visited a Catholic charity that gave out condoms - until the bishop found out. "

"I don't want to take this to an absurd level, but I'm going to.."

On the contrary...you made perfect sense.

"The RCC isn't helping matters, but that regions problem is much much bigger than the RCC."

Bingo.

-Off to do a radio promo. It's opening night.

Enjoy and good luck. Anything more than 5 takes and you're a novice!!!

As was pointed out, they also believe fucking an 8 year old girl will cure them. The RCC didn't put that out there.

Long story short, just like with the muslims, there are cultural differences that are almost impossible to overcome. The church should either retract the rubber info or never repeat it again.

Here is the problem. When the only information that is given is abstinence, you are not giving out information that raping 8 year olds will keep you from getting AIDS. Condoms are effective in preventing HIV if used. Cultural differences will never be overcome if education is never allowed as an alternative.

Granted, I'm assuming that abstinence only education does not include the "don't rape eight year olds, it's a waste of time" public service announcement...which appears to be a safe assumption based on the amount of rape cases in Africa.

This is where the argument becomes circular.
If they were actually listening to the catholic church they wouldn't be fucking before marriage or outside of it. - 101Chairborne

An excellent point that Danforth NEVER acknowledges.

He also never acknowledges all of the work and resources the RCC has poured into Africa to try and combat AIDS.

AIDS is simply the cause du jour these days. Africa has a bigger problem with malaria, but nobody talks about that. What's truly sad is that it's a problem that is easily remediable - a massive DDT campaign would do the trick. But no, can't have that, the enviros would rather allow millions of people to die and then pretend the problem doesn't exist.

Lastly, while the Dan makes a good overall point regarding the certain members of the church making irresponsibly false claims regarding condom usage, it's not as if Africans would be sheething these things en masse if the church told them to - see your circular argument above.

Country Adult prevalence Total HIV Deaths 2003
Tanzania 8.8% 1,500,000 160,000
Kenya 6.7% 1,100,000 150,000
Congo 4.9% 80,000 9,700
Ethiopia 4.4%* 1,400,000 120,000
Congo DR 4.2% 1,000,000 100,000
Uganda 4.1% 450,000 78,000
Eritrea 2.7% 55,000 6,300

Tanzania United Republic of Tanzania C 45; M 35; I 20

Uganda Republic of Uganda P 33; R 33; I 18; M 16

Ethiopia Federal Democratic Republic of Ethiopia M 47; Ethiopian O 37; I 12

Kenya Republic of Kenya P 38; R 28; I 26

Eritrea State of Eritrea M 50; C 50

Congo Republic Republic of the Congo C 50; I 48; M 2

Congo (formerly Zaire) Democratic Republic of the Congo R 59; P 20; M 10; Kimbanguist 10

Zimbabwe Republic of Zimbabwe C and I 50; C 25; I 24

"I'm assuming that abstinence only education does not include the "don't rape eight year olds, it's a waste of time" public service announcement...which appears to be a safe assumption based on the amount of rape cases in Africa."

"Don't have intercourse at all out of wedlock" includes not having intercourse with an eight year old girl against her will. There is no need for an assumption at all. A little common sense goes a long way.

everyone knows the Japs run the Roman Catholic Church...

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole
Your wife runs the RC church, Rob?
Wow.

The sexual habits in Africa are almost as self destructive as the sexual habits of the gay community in the U.S.

"The RCC has very little infuence on the African aids problem."

That's your opinion. You obviously suffer from the myopic belief the religious leaders are not also political leaders. If you think the RCC bishop saying HIV passes through condoms has no sway over non-Catholics, you're dreaming.

Danforth,

A few points:

1. I agree with you regarding certain members of the church making irresponsible claims. My biggest beef with you on this subject stems from when you claim the church is practicing genocide in Africa. THAT is an irresponsible claim.

2. If the church repudiated their prior statements and decided to be agnostic on the issue of condom use in Africa, do you honestly think Africans would start using them en masse? They clearly DON'T listen to the church when it says that sexual relations should only occur between monogamous, married couples, so why do you think a change in stance regarding condoms is going to garner acquiscence?

3. Why is AIDS considered an epidemic and malaria isn't even considered? Particualarly in light of the fact that malaria kills more Africans annually than does HIV.

"An excellent point that Danforth NEVER acknowledges."

Excuse me? American Catholics are also warned against sex outside marriage. They do it anyway.

"He also never acknowledges all of the work and resources the RCC has poured into Africa to try and combat AIDS."

Which is all negated by claiming condoms cause AIDS.

Excuse me? American Catholics are also warned against sex outside marriage. They do it anyway.

Exactly the point. They don't listen to the church. The point is if they don't listen to the church regarding non-marital sex, why in the hell would they listen to the church if its stance changed regarding condoms.

Which is all negated by claiming condoms cause AIDS.

First off, the church isn't claiming that condoms cause AIDS. What it is claiming is that non-monogamous intercourse causes AIDS and that condoms are insufficient protection against that. Secondly, it's not ALL negated. You are going to sit there and pooh-pooh everything the church does in Africa simply because they DON'T say, "screw everything that moves, but make sure you wear a condom when doing so'?

That's your opinion. You obviously suffer from the myopic belief the religious leaders are not also political leaders. If you think the RCC bishop saying HIV passes through condoms has no sway over non-Catholics, you're dreaming.

Posted by Danforth at 2008-07-31 01:42 PM |

I am saying what the facts show. The stats prove you are wrong danforth. Suck it up and move on.Your attempt to blame the RCC backfired and you continue to scramble. No one is claiming a Bishops words have no sway. The facts show they are a minority and contradicts your posts they are part of the blame. A very small part if any.

Danforth, it seems to me you want it both ways (pardon the pun) - RCC has a great amount of influence but everyone ignores it but RCC is responsible for the AIDS pandemic in Africa because they have such influence?

Which is it?

Danforth, it seems to me you want it both ways (pardon the pun) - RCC has a great amount of influence but everyone ignores it but RCC is responsible for the AIDS pandemic in Africa because they have such influence?

You noticed that too, eh.

You noticed that too, eh.

It's all black and white. All or nothing. With us or against us.

You know the truth, but you choose to ignore it in favor of fallacious argument.

When has religion ever stopped a population from engaging in sex?

It's only good for pushing it under ground, creating guilt, and without proper education (like LYING about condom porosity) creates an environment where risk for any activity is the same.

"First off, the church isn't claiming that condoms cause AIDS. "

WTF are you talking about?

Funny part is, if Clinton borrowed this much money for AIDS in Africa, the Fighty Rightys here would be having fits. Then again, if Clinton had invaded Iraq, they would have demanded an exit strategy and a victory.

Where in that article does it say anything about "The Vatican" agreeing with this loons statements? This 'Bishop' is no better and no more represents the 'Catholic Church' than Rev. Michael Pfleger.

I wasn't aware of this one guy's comment.

It's stupid, unless he can back it up - he can't.

That said, you seem to suggest that he speaks for the entire church.

"It's all black and white. All or nothing. With us or against us."

Genocide is a pretty extreme term. There isn't much grey area where genocide is concerned. That arguement has proven to be nonsense so now you want to pretend we're talking about subtle points here. Sorry, go peddle that bullshit somehwere else.

"You know the truth, but you choose to ignore it in favor of fallacious argument."

Either you judge them by their entire message or you pick and choose so you can accuse people of genocide because it fits in with some kind of faux-intellectual belief system to which you currently subscribe.

"you claim the church is practicing genocide"

No, I said the Church takes a genocidal stance. Huge difference.

"That said, you seem to suggest that he speaks for the entire church"

Where did the church repudiate him? Or this guy, for that matter:

No, I said the Church takes a genocidal stance. Huge difference.

Genocidal stance?

Define what that means and please use precise language.

Also, on the subject of AIDS, since when is the stance that people should obstain from sex until they are married genocidal?

Like Sully said, you want to pick and choose the overall message. It's disingenuous.

Either you judge them by their entire message or you pick and choose so you can accuse people of genocide because it fits in with some kind of faux-intellectual belief system to which you currently subscribe.

Usually you make sense.

A couple of points. I've never mentioned genocide. I don't subscribe to a "faux-intellectual belief system." Granted you stopped before addressing When has religion ever stopped a population from engaging in sex?

Conveniently, I might add. Otherwise you might conceded the only person engaging in a "faux-intellectual belief system" would be you.

And Jeff.

Sometime back in he '50's no one had sex before they were married. Right.

Sometime back in he '50's no one had sex before they were married. Right.

Pre-marital sex was far less prevalent then than today.

Teen pregnancy rates were far less prevalent then than today.

Yav,

I think Sully conflated your post with Danforth's posts.

Who would take any advice from this preposterous cult group-the Catholic Church--anyway? Have you ever attended a Mass? What a bizarre ceremony. There's some middle age man dressed in silk gowns wearing a dunce cap chanting some mystical mumbo-jumbo while alter boys dressed like fairies swing some incense burners. Then there is the symbolic cannibalism. Could just as well be a Wiccan or voodoo ceremony.

And for what? To worship some invisible, silent supernatural deity for whom there isn't a scintilla of evidence of actually existing.

Nulli,

Off topic - the other day you were advocating tax penalties (if I read your posts correctly) for married couples having more than what you'd deem to be an appropriate number of children.

Yet, you also hail from the side of the political aisle that advocates financial rewards (welfare) for women having numerous children out-of-wedlock.

Please reconcile the seeming contradiction because it comes accross as:

Wedlock births = bad
Out-of-wedlock births = good

"he other day you were advocating tax penalties (if I read your posts correctly) for married couples having more than what you'd deem to be an appropriate number of children. "

No I wasn't. I advocated phasing out child tax credits over a 10 year period.

OK - phase out tax credits for married couples but pay women to have out of wed children.

Now, please reconcile what is still a seeming contradiction.

Who would take any advice from this preposterous cult group-the Catholic Church--anyway? NULLANDVOID

17.4% of the worlds population at last count. While about 33% believe in the so called "invisible deity".

But hey, for a 'tolerant' lib nothing compares to making fun of someone elses beliefs. Keep it up NULL - by the way, how is it going in the church of Climatology?

"I've never mentioned genocide."

Fair enough, Yav. But you seemed to have plenty of criticism for Jeff without acknowledging that he's responding to someone who is making ridiculous statements about genocide. Leads one to believe you had a problem with one but not the other. How do you feel about the use of the word genocide in this thread?

"Granted you stopped before addressing When has religion ever stopped a population from engaging in sex?

Conveniently, I might add."

I've met people who are "saving themselves" in the present. Centuries ago people got married at 14. The consequences for being caught having sex out of wedlock were extreme. It wasn't so hard to abstain until marriage. At the same time, Popes used to have multiple children by different women. Some people take the ban on pre-marital sex very seriously and some don't. I don't see it supporting anyone's arguement either way. And it was alot of typing to say something we all know already. That is why I didn't answer the first time.

I don't find the arguement that the Church "knows" that people don't listen to them on abstinence but still expects people to listen to them on the effectiveness of condoms to make much sense anyway. The Church expects believers to listen to them on everything. That is why I judge them by the entire message and I find it dishonest to pick and choose.

The Church expects believers to listen to them on everything.

Sully, I actually agree with the crux of your argument, in a pure sense. I disagree with it when I look at the behavior of humans, and the use of disinformation to enforce the consequences (AIDS) of having "sex out of wedlock." That's an extreme punishment.

The Church belies the very constant that keeps them in business: Sin.

We need to recolonize Africa and teach them how real human beings are meant to live. - FWThom

The sexual habits in Africa are almost as self destructive as the sexual habits of the gay community in the U.S. - FWThom

It clearly is God's will, FWThom, that you set out for Africa immediately (by cruise ship), and convert and re-introduce them to the Empire, and, of course, the Missionary Position.

I expect nothing less.

OK - phase out tax credits for married couples but pay women to have out of wed children.

Now, please reconcile what is still a seeming contradiction.

I'm sorry, contradictions don't exist in the ivory tower.

"I disagree with it when I look at the behavior of humans, and the use of disinformation to enforce the consequences (AIDS) of having "sex out of wedlock." That's an extreme punishment."

Actually, the consequence could be eternal suffering in hell, which is worse than AIDS.

And they shouldn't be spouting off about condoms when they have no idea what they are talking about.

I just can't blame them for the spread of AIDS in Africa.

The church isn't wholly responsible, but they aint helping.

SITDOWN,

I would call my Empire Thom's Congo. Anyone with AIDS would report to leprosy camps. I would stop the spread of AIDS in one generation. I would also take care of the Jonjuweed and Arab bastards in Khartuum and let all the Darfur refugees go home. And that would just be the first month as King.

ForWard thinking Thom