I suppose many of you will feel that this is justice. I don't. When will we as a society accept the fact that there is a fundamental difference between how children and adults think and react to reality?

MODER8

You and I discussed this case the other day. Even though you are a defense attorney by profession I think we both agreed then that, under the circumstances in this case, this boy should be tried as a juvenile and do time in the CYA (California Youth Authority). For those of you reading this who are not familiar with the CYA, it's California's version of juvenile hall and young offenders can be kept there there until they reach age 25. This boy, if convicted, will do time at the CYA and then be transferred to an adult prison. His life is over.

I hold the parents and the teachers just as responsible. When you have one of the teachers giving the murdered gay a green ball gown to wear to school KNOWING he harrassed the straight boys dressed in his flamboyant clothing, they are just as much at fault as the boy who pulled the trigger.

This 14 year old boy -- if sentenced as an adult to the California prison system -- is a walking dead man. You may as well execute him now.

It's California's liberal political correctness run amok. This state allows one gay kid (with a zillion of his own personal issues) to run around like Tinkerbell on steroids in order not to make him "feel slighted." School authorities look the other way when the gay kid foists his high heeled and lipstick-earing self on the other young straight boys at school (and all of whom highly resented his actions) until the situation escalated into murder.

Why do I think this situation would never have gotten this far in Texas or any
other rational thinking state except here in California?

lipstick earing = lipstick wearing

Moder8

Any chance a jury will not convict him? Or end up a hung jury? What do you think?

No way. The boy is guilty as hell. He got sick and tired of being taunted by the gay kid. His classmates were laughing at him. So he decided to bring a gun to school. He then waited for the right opportunity and shot the victim twice in the head. Sounds about as premeditated as it comes.
Not that it will happen, but I suppose a jury could call it manslaughter based on the emotional torment which lead the boy to commit the homicide. Seems like quite a stretch though. Manslaughter generally is committed in the heat of passion. Going home, getting a gun, bringing it to school the next day, and then shooting a person twice doesn't sound like heat of passion. It sound like premeditation and deliberation.
The point is though, this boy is a boy. The case should have been handled by the Juvenile justice system. But ever since the year 2000 Californians have given the DAs unbridled discretion to file anything and everything in Adult court. Judges have no power to reverse it. That is the will of the voters. God save us all.

MODER*

I totally agree with you that pre-medidation will be this kid's biggest hurdle to overcome in court.

I wonder about the background facts in this case.
Did the kid who did the murder ever complain to his parents, to any of his teachers? If not, what kept him from seeking help? The way the system was set up? Was this particular kid singled out as the main target of the slain kid's harrassment or did the gay kid taunt everyone and it happened to be this one kid who exploded? So many factors come into play.

I wonder if his parents have gotten good attorneys. Also wonder just how liberal the jury pool will be. The more liberal, the more they will side with the gay kid's "right" to harrass this boy. The more conservative, the more a jury might resent the excessive liberties given to the slain gay boy to continue his harrassment of the other boys at school.

No matter what verdict is rendered, two very young lives have been destroyed forever, albeit in different ways.

* = 8

way to go, nostradumbass!

Hey Nanc, why do you troll threads like this? You have nothing to offer. No insight.
Just bile.

Of course this same observation applies to your posts on most every thread.

is that why you stalk MY blog you whiny little pissant!

in case you didn't notice - i paid you a compliment on your PREDICTION! run off now and tell rcade i hurt your feewings...

you handily dish it out but can rarely take it.

bile?

have your liver checked, moder8 - i'd be willing to bet it's lily colored...

So... how old IS 14 anyway? I'm asking folks on the Right this one. Because what I usually hear from people on the right is that a 14 year old is perfectly capable of formulating murder with the same mindset as an adult... but can't consent to sex like one? It just strikes me as a bit hypocritical.

Personally, I think a kid is a kid; maybe I'd give some leeway for a 16 or 17 year old, but even then I'd want to see proof of a high IQ or something before treating them as an adult. We need to have one across-the-board standard. That means we hold to it even when it's distasteful. Either they're kids or they aren't.

(loving this back page :) )

Soheifox

(loving this back page :) )

Ray, who's been a regular poster on here for a long time, only discovered the back page himself not too long ago. The back page is lot crazier too -- anything goes :)

The back page is lot crazier too -- anything goes :)

Is true.

Sometimes there's entire threads wot are drunk and go topless!

Woo Hoo!

There's a lot of general silliness buried on the backpage.

News to me.

Be Well.

Nanc has once again re-established her role as a troll unable to discuss the subject as thread.

On Topic?

14 yo kid who shoots dead a gay guy at his school who taunted him is to be sentenced as an adult?

Don't like 14 yo's being sent to real prisons.

Hell even some gay straight alliances groups agree that's a bit harsh.

Spud sez CYA "juvie" facilities till he's 25 and then into an adult prison for a year.

12 years total.

This may seem too kind to some and maybe too cruel to others but this was an act of premeditated murder and despite the allegations of sexual harrassment the idea of allowing a 14 yo to get away with pre-meditated murder simply because of his age would seem to Spud to be a really, really bad precedent to set.

That sed, from age 14 to 65 inside the big house?

That's just plain nuts.

America already has the world largest prisoner per capita ration in the world.

This voter sponsored policy allowing juveniles to be tried outside of the CYA aint helping that stat.

CYA = Cover Yer Ass AND California Youth Authority?

Sorry, but Spud finds that funny fer some reason.

Be Well.

Imagine you're on the jury though. What do you do? Do you set a killer free? Do you convict, even knowing that by doing so you are effectively ending the boy's life?

the mother probably should have aborted him when she had the chance. now, he'll be a problem to society for the rest of his miserable little life. shame really.

there, moder8 - howzat for contributing?

is that why you stalk MY blog you whiny little pissant!

in case you didn't notice - i paid you a compliment on your PREDICTION! run off now and tell rcade i hurt your feewings...

you handily dish it out but can rarely take it.

Posted by nanc

hahahahahahaha, this coming from the "woman" who started a thread about how she wasnt wanted on the DR, whaaaaaaaaaaaaa

you should take your anger out on your drunk for a husband

Still a child, yet far too old of life.

What a tragedy our society has become.

Must be something in the water.

anger?

i'm LMAO!

truthhurts - your envy slip is showing - i wasn't whining - i was bringing it to the table instead of going behind y'all's backs like a slippery little eel.

personally I think anyone who has started a thread about not being wanted here should not call anyone a whiner, but that is just me.

seriously does your husband drink 12 beers a night? cause that seems extreme. even 2 a night every night seems extreme to me, but I am genreally a tea totaller now.

I don't think this kid should be put away for life, but what he experienced at school, which he claims brought him to his actions, is not sexual harrassment.

That would depend on what kind of values he learned at home.

goody for you, truthhurts! i know how important it is for you incontinent sorts to stay regulated...green tea? love it!

odld huh?

pitiful.

suppose many of you will feel that this is justice. I don't

You're right. He deserves the death penalty!

goody for you, truthhurts! i know how important it is for you incontinent sorts to stay regulated...green tea? love it!

Posted by nanc

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
codependent Audio Help /ˌkoʊdɪˈpɛndənt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[koh-di-pen-
duhnt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
adjective 1. of or pertaining to a relationship in which one person is physically or psychologically addicted, as to alcohol or gambling, and the other person is psychologically dependent on the first in an unhealthy way.
noun 2. one who is codependent or in a codependent relationship.

so what are you going to do about your addiction to me?

just looking out for you.

as I said before if you werent real i would have to make you up.
`

"The boy is being charged as an adult in spite of extensive evidence that he was sexually harassed by the victim"

"being taunted by the gay kid"

Do you have a link to any of this? I read the article, twice, and nowhere does it mention anything like the above. Where are you getting this? Where is this "extensive evidence"?

When does sexual harrassment excuse premeditated murder?

it doesnt but being 14 may, a 14 year old does not possess the cognitive ability to make decisions as an adult does

true - i read somewhere that fourteen year olds should be responsible for nothing more than a dead hamster.

I think a 14 yr old should not be tried as an adult. I believe it is a medical fact that their developing brains are incapable of making decisions like an adult. In fact I believe i read somewhere that their hormones, brain chemistry makes them more likely to act irresponsibly, that the judgement centers of the brain are not as developed as the portions of the brain seeking gratifcation.

Truth,

Most 14 year olds do not possess the maturity of an adult.

But the actions of this 14 year old showed either the maturity to bring a gun to class, walk up to the target, point the gun at his head and pull the trigger or such a willfull disrepect for human life that he needs harsher treatment than just juvey.

But the actions of this 14 year old showed either the maturity to bring a gun to class, walk up to the target, point the gun at his head and pull the trigger or such a willfull disrepect for human life that he needs harsher treatment than just juvey.

Posted by 726 at 2008-07-28 12:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

So you're saying if the same 14 year old had, the day before, consented to sex with his gym teacher, he would have to be considered just as mature in cognitive abilities?

726, I agree that the child did something heinous. I would debate whether his actions indicate maturity. I also agree that he needs harsher treatment than juvey hall. I dont believe though that he should be subjected to treatment as an adult, he is not an adult.

a mentally impaired individual is not nor should be be held accountable for an inability to make proper judgement, nor should a child.

So, if you are on the jury, knowing the consequences as you do, what would you do? I think any juror would convict. I can't imagine any juror giving the boy a free pass. Just won't happen. This is not the kind of crime where you get a jury pardon.

14 years old?

I'd hit it.

Oh. It's a dude?

/obligatory.

A "troubled" child has been causing trouble to others. So now the "troubled" child has killed. If released to the civilian population, he'll most probably wreak untold havoc.

Put him away where he cannot intrude negatively on the lives of so many individuals sufficiently unfortunate to be in proximity to him.

If he is not confined "forever" as an adult, I'd bet the farm that he'd do a huge amount of damage to other members of the community, and then be taken off of the street.

You sentimentalists always support people, who "inevitably" are destined to harm others. Remember Leadbelly. And recall what happened with him.

Moder8,

I'm still waiting: where is this "extensive evidence"?

Please release him, let him go. Release him so he can kill again.

A "troubled" child is probably the worst person to ever put back on the street.

Oh, the lefty program is release him and let him harm again, and then put him away. Do you have any idea of the statistic regarding this type of situation?

This should be a "one strike and you're out" situation.

"I'm still waiting: where is this "extensive evidence"?"

I don't know if its extensive, but just "google" the boys name... its easy enough....

Surprisingly, I agree with spud on this one. Ten to 12 years starting with juvie (I don't think he can stay there past 18 or 20, spud) then closely watched and constantly evaluated in minimum security.

However, I would add that if by 25 his shrinks give a clean bill of health, it's to the halfway house and re-integration into society -- still closely watched and evaluated for another 5 or ten years, however.

I admit, i am troubled by the fact it was gun and not a knife or brick he used as a murder weapon. This is what makes me want to add the 10 years probabation with close supervision.

"I don't know if its extensive..."

It's not. Moder8, please link to this "extensive evidence".

You sentimentalists always support people, who "inevitably" are destined to harm others. Remember Leadbelly. And recall what happened with him.

I remember Leadbelly, but I don't know what happened to him--?

Danforth, the case is set out in the Newsweek's front page article I posted last week. Very in depth, and extensive investigation. It is in my History section. Look it up. It's easy.

Danforth, why do I suspect you have an agenda? Read the article. Everything I posted is completely accurate. Don't like it? Oh well...

Where is this "extensive evidence"?

Posted by Danforth

What's happened here is that "sexual harassment" has been given a very broad definition. Apparently, whenever a homosexual hits on a heterosexual, that's enough for some to call it sexual harassment.

I mean, what's a straight boy to do under those circumstances. Imagine the powerlessness.

"why do I suspect you have an agenda? "

You're paranoid.

"...article I posted last week."

And I'm supposed to follow every post in your history? Get a grip. You threw out the phrase "extensive evidence" without referencing a thing on this thread. All I did was ask for proof.

"So you're saying if the same 14 year old had, the day before, consented to sex with his gym teacher, he would have to be considered just as mature in cognitive abilities?"

NAILED IT! SOHEIFOX hits the nail on the head, when these "children" have sex with their schoolteachers the teachers are branded as pedophiles, the kids are poor, innocent victims, when 14 year old kid commits murder, he is now considered to be an adult and capable of being tried as an adult. MAKE UP YOUR FUCKING MINDS PEOPLE!

The kid should be tried as a juvenile, pure and simple, I agree with Moder8 on this point, the thought of a 14 year old who does not have the reasoning capacity of an adult being tried as an adult before a jury of adults, is simply a miscarriage of justice. I would hope, should he be convicted that an appeals court will see reason and overturn the verdict and remand for a trial as a juvenile (however this is CA, I am not confident that their appeals court will see sense).

"What's happened here is that "sexual harassment" has been given a very broad definition. Apparently, whenever a homosexual hits on a heterosexual, that's enough for some to call it sexual harassment."

Don't get your point, whenever a boy (or girl) hits on a girl (or boy) and the attention is unwelcome and it has been made clear that the attention is unwelcome that has been defined as sexual harassment in the current madness that is school political correctness. Hell a five year old boy was charged with sexual harassment about a year ago cause he kissed a girl.

I simply don't understand how a homosexual can "hit on" a hetrosexual boy, be rebuffed, and yet continue to "hit on" said boy, is not then guilty of "sexual harassment", my question is why the ever loving treacle did the school not do something about it? Nope they ENABLED it! The administration of the school is as guilty of murder as this boy is.

moder8's probably at cocktail hour having an a.a. session with truthhurts, danforth.

Goat

Surprisingly, I agree with spud on this one. Ten to 12 years starting with juvie (I don't think he can stay there past 18 or 20, spud) then closely watched and constantly evaluated in minimum security.

Guess you missed my post in the beginning of the thead where in CA you're kept in youth correctional facilities until age 25:

For those of you reading this who are not familiar with the CYA, it's California's version of juvenile hall and young offenders can be kept there there until they reach age 25. This boy, if convicted, will do time at the CYA and then be transferred to an adult prison. His life is over.

And I could NOT figure out this comment of yours:

I admit, i am troubled by the fact it was gun and not a knife or brick he used as a murder weapon. This is what makes me want to add the 10 years probabation with close supervision.

- goatman

We all agree murder is wrong. So putting that aside, why would you ever be "less troubled" if this kid died because he had been stabbed with a knife or pounded on the head with a brick? Wouldn't a gun at least have been a much quicker death than the other two methods?

If this kid goes into the adult correction system in CA he's toast. No way will he come out with a clean bill of mental health. Not in those prisons.

Okay, later.