Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs

An AP analysis by its chief military reporter and Baghdad bureau chief claims the U.S. is winning the war in Iraq. "Limited, sometimes sharp fighting and periodic terrorist bombings in Iraq are likely to continue, possibly for years," writers Robert Burns and Robert H. Reid state. "But the Iraqi government and the U.S. now are able to shift focus from mainly combat to mainly building the fragile beginnings of peace."

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ssssshhhhhh......

This is bad news for Obama, the dems, and the blame America first crowd.

The Dems were counting on us losing. I am glad they were wrong.

Stop talking about who was right about what. Hey, Obama was right we should not have gone in there. McCain was right, once we made the mess, it took the surge to begin cleaning it up. So they were both wrong and they were both right.

Now that things seem to be settling down, lets figure out how to get out of there and leave them to run their own country.

And McCain just endorsed Obama's 16 month draw down. By the way, regardless, this has nothing to do on investigating how we got into Iraq in the first place. Every rightwinger knows that and that leads me to believe how unpatriotic it is to look the other way on whether or not we were lied into war. the ends NEVER justifies the means

I went out to pizza Hut ,Burger King, Taco Bell and Subway, every day if I wanted. Also good steaks ,Lobster and King Crab(Thank You Guys on the Deadliest catch)on a regular basis.

Wasnt so bad on the Big Bases.

Yeaaaah! Were winning .

And McCain just endorsed Obama's 16 month draw down...

Posted by AngelofTRUTH at 2008-07-26 01:10 PM

How can you call yourself angeloftruth and lie like that?

Anyone that wants to know what McCain really said can just watch the video.

hotlineblog.nationaljournal.co
m

If the U.S. is winning Iraq then maybe they can declare victory (Missicon Accomplished II?) and this time go home, immediately.

Mato

I did see the video and you right wingers now are SHAMLESS LIARS. Shall I remind you what Bush said in 2007 and McCain said in 2004 about leaving Iraq if the Iraqi's said leave??? Now youl all are saying Bush and Mccain never said we would leave??? Do not lecture anyone on the TRUTH. You bastards have redefined the term Shameless, pathologocal liars and the American people see it and know it!!!
I just have to remmber that after November you shameless no-account rightwingers will finally be irrelavant.

If you watched that video and somehow in your warped mind think he was endorsing Obama's plan you have a serious comprehension issue.

you guys won the fight but will never win the war, it was a failed policy to begin with: illegal and did not accomplish anything except bankrupt your country financially and morally.

the only thing more juvenile than talking about losing or winning this war is spouting inane comments about the left hoping for defeat.

dumbass is what dumbass does, you guys never miss an opportunity to demonstrate the limited scope of your view.

If you watched that video and somehow in your warped mind think he was endorsing Obama's plan you have a serious comprehension issue.


No worse than your comprehension problem as it pertains to Bush in 2007 and McCain in 2004.

Why aren't we leaving then? Hmmm... And what about the former Iraq PM saying it isn't a lasting peace because there has been no real political change? We need to get out now. I don't care whether we won. McCain was wrong in supporting this farce in the first place, PERIOD.

coreyadam: BINGO!!!!!!

And as I said before, if a democrat paid off the iraqi militias the way the republicans have in this situation to secure the "peace", those same republif#ckers(including the c#cksuckers posting above) would be screaming:

APPEASEMENT!!!!!!!!!!


you guys won the fight but will never win the war, it was a failed policy to begin with: illegal and did not accomplish anything except bankrupt your country financially and morally.


the only thing more juvenile than talking about losing or winning this war is spouting inane comments about the left hoping for defeat.


dumbass is what dumbass does, you guys never miss an opportunity to demonstrate the limited scope of your view.

Posted by panchovilla at 2008-07-26 01:28 PM


After the 9/11 attacks President Bush warned the world,"Your either with us or against us."
But because of Washingtons persistent refusal to acknowledge exactly who the terrorists are and why we are fighting, that line in the sand becomes more obscured.
During Condoliza Rices confirmation hearings she was grilled about Iraq,wmd's and how long our troops will be there.But no one then or since has asked a more important question. When and how will American foreign policy be adjusted to defeat the goals,not just the tactics of our jihad friends?

Anybody else think it's ironic that someone who calls themself panchovilla is talking about illegal policies?

"putzovilla"- Never has an intellegent thing to say,plenty of insults. Pancho villa was a criminal,low life piece of shit,rapist,murderer,and plunderer.


This is bad news for Obama, the dems, and the blame America first crowd.

Posted by fwthom at 2008


actually its not.......JUST LIKE RUSH PREDICTED>....
dems and obama are in the process of taking credit for the success...

and PANCHO..........you wont be able to change history on this one like the left does with nam and other issues.
the left has been ABOUT NOTHING BUT DEFEAT.........

Now lets hear the Robin Hood bullshit begin.

We've turned the corner, the insurgency is kaput, the surge is working, we'll be greeted as liberators, the troops will be showered with flowers and chocolates, the war will only cost $50 billion, The bullshit from the Chimptards never ends.

Anybody else think it's ironic that someone who calls themself panchovilla is talking about illegal policies?

Irony is your post.

Dubya's folly is fast approaching the Vietnam War in terms of cost and he did it half the time. Mission accomplished!

The total cost of the Iraq war is approaching the Vietnam War's expense, a congressional report estimates, while spending for military operations after 9/11 has exceeded it.

The new report by the Congressional Research Service estimates the U.S. has spent $648 billion on Iraq war operations, putting it in range with the $686 billion, in 2008 dollars, spent on the Vietnam War, the second most expensive war behind World War II. Since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, the U.S. has doled out almost $860 billion for military operations in Afghanistan, Iraq and elsewhere around the world.


hosted.ap.org

After the 9/11 attacks President Bush warned the world,"Your either with us or against us."
But because of Washingtons persistent refusal to acknowledge exactly who the terrorists are and why we are fighting, that line in the sand becomes more obscured.
During Condoliza Rices confirmation hearings she was grilled about Iraq,wmd's and how long our troops will be there.But no one then or since has asked a more important question. When and how will American foreign policy be adjusted to defeat the goals,not just the tactics of our jihad friends?


We've turned the corner, the insurgency is kaput, the surge is working, we'll be greeted as liberators, the troops will be showered with flowers and chocolates, the war will only cost $50 billion, The bullshit from the Chimptards never ends.

Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2008


we have turned a big corner andmore........the shia are back and the insurgency is crippled hopefully for good.......FOR NOW>.......we were greeted like liberators in the beginning and we probably screwed that up somehow......I guess its the first time in world history that something like that has happened...
there werent many flowers or choclate that the iraqis could have gotten ahold of.....remember the reign of a little cutesy guy named saddaam.....
and we have always said it would take a long time and that translates into money........

but it would help the debate if just a couple of you defeatists would even one little bit reconize the success in that country.

we were greeted like liberators in the beginning and we probably screwed that up somehow.

BL2

You know damn well how.

Gen. Jay Garner's advice:

-Do NOT disband the Iraqi Army
-Guard the munition dumps and factories
-Do NOT deBaathify the goverhment but for high level Baathists
-Accept help from the Iraqi military - offers of as many MP's as we needed to protect assets.

So, what happened? Washington disregarded everything he suggested that would have prevented chaos, fired him, replaced him with Bremmer, and gave Bremmer a "Medal of Freedom' for fucking up so badly.

This was all after they disregarded Zinni and Shinseki who said we should have a minimum of 500,000 troops going in.

This war was unnecessary and should never have been fought. That's the question to deal with, not "winninng" (define, please) or "losing" (ditto).

but doc.........you cant go back and change it now. we have to deal withwhat Really happened.........and what really happened was one of the worst dictators and human slime inthe worlds history was captured and executed........
and all signs point towards an iraq that will be an ally in the war on terror, and not a host country for the enemy.........

This is bad news for Obama, the dems, and the blame America first crowd.

How is it bad news for Dems? If the war's won, what's the reason for McCain's candidacy? Four more years of Bush economic policies?

Meanwhile the threats against Iran are getting stronger and more ominous.

all signs point towards an iraq that will be an ally in the war on terror, and not a host country for the enemy.

Maybe in Bushlover world. Iraq and Iran are allies. The enemy would be the US.

But no one then or since has asked a more important question. When and how will American foreign policy be adjusted to defeat the goals,not just the tactics of our jihad friends?

Posted by controlledpairs at 2008-07-26 01:51 PM | Reply |


good point. see? even you can see further than your usually stunted views and ad hominem attacks. yet you can't stop your reflex to dive back into the juvenile insult slinging and chest thumping...almost rivaling your buddy elcid who can't even respond to the post with any point at all. pathetic.
_____

and PANCHO..........you wont be able to change history on this one like the left does with nam and other issues.
the left has been ABOUT NOTHING BUT DEFEAT.........

Posted by bushlovertwo at 2008-07-26 02:05 PM | Reply |

then crusty the clown stumbles in with more inane inarticulate bullshit. the left is about waging war with the right enemy, the right way.. not some bullshit personal vendetta or oil grab. the worse part is how easily you guys fall lock step in support of a failed policy, even when it goes against the welfare of your country.


y'all deserve to be beaten with a stupid stick...repeatedly.

RCADE: Kudos

These right wing moonbats I think simply just may be stupid people. Those who are incapable of critical thought are not even worth having a discussion with. How anyone could post "This is bad news for Dems..." is simply beyond response. Have you noticed that when a right winger posts , they fail to list a single fact to support their claim?

This past week may go down as the week that Barack Obama met the treshold as a player on the international scene. Now, let me list the reasons why so that I will not be accused of making a statement without facts:

1) Malaki govt endorces the 16 month draw down
2) Malaki's VP also endoresed it
3) Bush admin admits they need to talk to Iranians
4) Bush admin and Gen Petreas state that more troops are needed in Afghanistan.
5) Media exposes both Bush in 2007 and Mccain in 2004 staing CLEARLY that if Iraqi's say leave we would have too.

All of these FACTS are things Obama have staed over the past year. If Mccain's basis on running is Iraq, he has been undercut.

Wow, even now the liberal AP news outlet believes the war has shifted, and the Iraqi people and US forces are finally winning the war. This progress would never have came about if Obama and company decided in 2006, to pull out of Iraq and their opposition to a surge in 2007. Obama said the experts told him, the surge would never work, Iraq is a lost cause. Yea, right! He basically still has the same policy of pulling out of Iraq.

Speaking of which, there is so much good news coming from the success of Iraq, there is talk about pulling out in 1 to 2 years which is more practical than pulling out right away. Too many variables in Iraq, so making sure Iraq can take care of itself is vital. Great job to the men and women who risked their lives over there in Iraq, you done an excellent job while many (including Obama) thought this progress was impractical!

As i said. The bushies paid off the militias to stop killing our troops. This appeasement is nothing more than a political calculation designed by the @sshole rightwing so that if the demos get into power and STOP paying off the juntas over there, the rightwing c#cksuckers can claim that the demos f#cked up the war when those very same "allies" start killing our soldiers again. That's all this is. More war pig sh#t...

It's useless talking about Iraq or the state of affairs at home with FoxNews freaks.

The facts are always at odds with the rhetoric.

MikeWarrior: suggest you read the below clip, also from AP


When it comes to Iraq, the surge is a great success, right? Well, according to Ayad Allawi, Iraq's former prime minister, that depends on what you mean by "success".

In a briefing before members of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs yesterday, Allawi answered questions from members of he subcommittee on international organizations, human rights, and oversight. When asked by Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.), the subcommittee's ranking member, for Allawi's "assessment of of what's come of the surge," Allawi all but said, not much.

"It's useless talking about Iraq or the state of affairs at home with FoxNews freaks.

The facts are always at odds with the rhetoric."
------------------------------
---------------------
"...never permit the government to discern the relationship between cause and effect. Government invariably rules out the possibility that the structure of the public sector itself is to blame for the problem, whether that problem is terrorism or recession." -- Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr.

Who gives a shit if we're winning. This isn't like winning WW II?!?! Yeah, we "won" Vietnam too cause the NV had over 1 million casualties. So what's the point? We should not have invaded Iraq in the first place! Too much fucking media and too much information. And the Bush Admin criticizes Berlusconi for running the media in Italy?!?!

"Who gives a shit if we're winning. This isn't like winning WW II?!?! Yeah, we "won" Vietnam too cause the NV had over 1 million casualties. So what's the point? We should not have invaded Iraq in the first place! Too much fucking media and too much information. And the Bush Admin criticizes Berlusconi for running the media in Italy?!?!"

Massive debt. Lots of dead people. Banks going under. Dollar = toilet paper. People losing their houses. Oil prices up.

Now tell me who won eh...

Not to worry! We won in Afghanistan and pushed the Taliban out. Haliburton passed out Flowers and Chocolates(tm)! Hearts and Minds, Stayed the course. Hearts and Minds!

What? The Taliban are back? With a vengeance having reclaimed major territory?

Anyone really think Iraq will be differen?

Let's learn from history; Republicans have made careers out of lying to the American People just before major elections. It's their only strategy this year. Who do we get this info from? How do we know what we know about Iraq? From Generals. From people on the payroll of Blackwater and Haliburton. From Lying Liars and the Lying Lies they tell.

So...Sure we are winning this month. Probably will be winning next month too.

But come November, after the election and regardless who wins, they won't be singing THAT TUNE any more. No it'll be back to 24/7 war-profiteering-insurgents- resurging the re-surge - and still no WMD'S in sight.

Wanna bet some Flowers and Chocolate on that?

First of all there is not definition of victory. There is no land to take, no leader to topple, no army to overthrow. In reality we have lost if you do the history. Years ago we backed Iraq under Saddam a Sunni against Iran the Shia. Today we have a Shia govt in Iraq so how in anyones wildest dreams do we think we have won? Regarding the "surge" the only reason it is working is because AL Sadr has told his troops to stand down. They will rise up again when we leave and you can take that to the bank. The only victory in Bush and McCains eyes is "staying" in Iraq.

Ah--so it is AP who can tell who is wins and who is loses. I wonder if AP is the one who can surrender to us. If so, I know where their home offices are located.

Ah--so it is AP who can tell who is wins and who is loses.

But if the AP said we were losing, you'd be all over it like a chicken on a June bug, bOoB.

Wow, even now the liberal AP news outlet believes the war has shifted,

AP Board of Directors
. . .
Rupert Murdoch
Chairman and chief executive officer
News Corp.
New York, NY
. . .
www.ap.org

The decline of the AP's neutrality:

www.politico.com

How can you lose a one-sided "oil war" war?

Well why the hell wouldn't the U.S. win such a "one sided" war! The Bush Govt instigated this illegal war and met no military defense or resistance at all in Iraq,while the US Military bombed that country to smithereens!

Also just what does the Bush Regime define as "winning" in Iraq? In the second world war Germany and Japan surrendered and that was considered by the Allies as "winning the war"! But who is left there in Iraq to surrender to the Americans? Saddam Hussein and his government are long gone and were no threat or danger,whatsoever to the US Military invasion in the first place.In fact the US Military controls the entire country of Iraq and does so without any significant threats.
As has been stated and verified before,most of the Iraq resistance including the majority of the suicide bombings that continue in Iraq are being orchestrated and perpetrated by the CIA and the US Military to justify their continued occupation of that "oil rich" country!!!

Thanks YAV for the heads up on Rupert. Once again though, the so called 'liberal media lie' resounds in the mind of the kool-aid drinking republicans on this site.

YA HEAR THAT YOU BOOBS: Rupert Murdoch is Chairman and CEO of AP!

And you all know he owns FOX NEWS, Right?

Riiiiight

Now I know you can do basic math. The question is, can you learn from it and repeat it...over and over again to yourselves!

No? Okay. Clinton got a Blow Job.

Rupert Murdoch is Chairman and CEO of AP!

Don't go that far. He's an AP board member. He's chairman and ceo of NewsCorp.

His appointment to the AP is recent, but not without effect. The AP is becoming almost as embarassing as the WSJ these days. I still chuckle over the "Bush is like Batman" WSJ story.

Actually, it should read:

"AP Analysis: U.S. Winning Illegal Iraq War"

Any happy talk that comes of out of whatever is happening in Iraq makes BushCo breathe a little sigh of relief. It (hopefully) helps make their crime a little more palatable to the general public. It's a bit like a rapist taking comfort in the fact that his rape victim chose an abortion instead of having the baby and sticking the rapist with child support.

good point. see? even you can see further than your usually stunted views and ad hominem attacks. yet you can't stop your reflex to dive back into the juvenile insult slinging and chest thumping...almost rivaling your buddy elcid who can't even respond to the post with any point at all

Posted by panchovilla at 2008-07-26 02:59 PM | Reply | Flag

What an ego.You should try some humility.
A hypocrite you are.

You realize this is a entertainment website? Where sarcasm and jokes and fighting are common?

Thats what happens when people try to force thier views down othere throats.

Albert

Winning the war is just the first bit of bad news for Obama and the dems who were rooting for U.S. defeat. They will hear another shoe drop when gas is $2.00 a gallon by election day.

Great news, if its true!

Maybe the right can agree to bring the rest of the troops home in 16 months.

Can we all now agree on this?

After we win the war, we will keep the peace by stationing troops in Iraq for the next 100 years.

I can't believe people are calling what is left in iraq a war.

It is an occupation, nothing more and there is nothing to winning in an occupation.

Like the old saying goes... You can win anything if you throw enough money at it. But anyone with a brian knows the real truth. WE AIN"T WINNIN SHIT !!!

"Winning" a war that should never have been fought is nothing to brag about. The US in Messopotamia is both a disgrace and disaster.

Johnny poopy-pants theme of appealing to red Neck Americans with a theme of "We're Winners and we're going to win in Iraq..and I know how to win wars"... when there is nothing to win is like telling a cronic gambler he can win at craps and blackjack so don't give up.

"But anyone with a brian knows the real truth. WE AIN"T WINNIN SHIT !!!"

Is that REALLY what your brian is telling you? Tell brian he's way out of touch.

"Wednesday, July 23, 2008

Over half of American voters (51%) now believe the United States and its allies are winning the war on terror, the highest figure recorded in nearly four years by Rasmussen Reports in a nationwide survey.

Only 16% now think the terrorists are on top, while 27% view it as a stalemate."


52% say Bringing Troops Home More Important than Winning the War
~ Rasmussen Reports in a nationwide survey


Ex-Insurgents Want More Money from U.S.

~www.drudge.com

It should have been called the Splurge.

"Over half of American voters (51%) now believe the United States and its allies are winning the war on terror, the highest figure recorded in nearly four years by Rasmussen Reports in a nationwide survey."

WTF do the American people know about how (or even whether) the GWOT is being conducted?

That's like asking them whether they believe in God, or if the Moon is made of cheese, or whether there's intelligent life anywhere in the universe, or how many pixies can dance on the head of a pin. They simply do not have the information to reach an intelligent conclusion. (Ironically, reminiscent of the way Bush decided to launch his war-disaster against Iraq.)

FF ZAP

I'd have put an exclamation point on there, but I'm leaving it off as it's a sadly true at the same time.

"They simply do not have the information to reach an intelligent conclusion."

If you're referring to the Obamaniacs, I couldn't agree more.

Posted by jestgettinalong at 2008-07-27 09:17 AM

Here are some worksheets for improving your reading comprehension: www.rhlschool.com

Over half of American voters (51%) now believe the United States and its allies are winning the war on terror, the highest figure recorded in nearly four years by Rasmussen Reports in a nationwide survey.

Only 16% now think the terrorists are on top, while 27% view it as a stalemate."

Posted by jestgettinalong at 2008-07-27 09:02 AM

Who ever thought the terrorists were on top !!! The 9-11 attacks on this country were pulled of by 30 Extremists fundamentalists financed by Osama Bin Laden and a hand full of Extremists in Afganistan. The attacks were successful because George W. Bush and his inept administration were asleep at the swicth and incompetent assholes.


The Terrorists are on top... BLOW IT OUT YOUR ASS !!!

"Here are some worksheets for improving your reading comprehension:"

Now, now Doc...it's much too early on a Sunday morning to start with the insults. Did Rcade pee in your cereal, or what?
Besides, even opponents of the war are admitting the surge is working. Why does that upset you?

From the NYT:
"But before long, the more honest among the surge opponents will concede that Bush, that supposed dolt, actually got one right. Some brave souls might even concede that if the U.S. had withdrawn in the depths of the chaos, the world would be in worse shape today.

Life is complicated. The reason we have democracy is that no one side is right all the time. The only people who are dangerous are those who cant admit, even to themselves, that obvious fact."


From Lanny Davis:
"The surge did, in fact, lead to a reduction of violence, confirmed by media on the ground as well as our military leaders.

It did allow the Shi'ite government of Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki in the last several months to show leadership by joining, if not leading, the military effort to clean out of Basra the masked Mahdi Army controlled by the anti-U.S. Shi'ite extremist cleric Moqtada al-Sadr and in the Sadr City section of Baghdad he claimed to control.

This willingness by the Shi'ite-dominated Maliki government to move against the Sadr Shi'ite extremists won crucial credibility for the government among many Sunni leaders and Sunnis on the streets, who joined together with Shi'ites to turn against the al Qaeda in Iraq and other Taliban-like extremists.

These are facts, not arguments.

I think there are a lot of anti-war Democrats who, like me, are impressed by these facts and who now see a moral obligation, after all the carnage and destruction wrought by our military intervention, not just to pick up and leave without looking over our shoulders."


I can find more if you're too busy to look. Aware of your handicap, I'm always willing to help you any way I can, Doc.


"The Terrorists are on top... BLOW IT OUT YOUR ASS !!!" Posted by USATRUEANDBLUE7

My, my, my....you are such an angry little boy for being only seven years old. Do they have you on Ritalin? Have they forgotten your meds this morning?

Posted by jestgettinalong at 2008-07-27 09:40 AM

Of course, you've ducked the issue yet again. You're simply unable and incapable of explaining how that percentage of the voters you cited have access to the information required to make an intelligent judgment about the success of "the war on terror."

I extend my sympathies to you for laboring under the double disability of neither being able to comprehend what you read nor engage in critical thought associated with the information before you.

Come back when you've honed those skills. Who knows? You might even make some sense by then.

These are facts, not arguments.

I think there are a lot of anti-war Democrats who, like me, are impressed by these facts and who now see a moral obligation, after all the carnage and destruction wrought by our military intervention, not just to pick up and leave without looking over our shoulders."

Posted by jestgettinalong at 2008-07-27 09:40 AM

You Mean like our moral obligation to South Vietnam when we picked up and left and allowed a reported 1,000,000 to 1,500,000 South Vietnameze citizens sympathetic to the US cause to be tortured and slaughtered ? A fact little reported and swept under the rug by our government and news agencies.

So go run your little moral obligation argument that we have an obligation to the Iraqis on some other
person with a limited thinking process.

"and allowed a reported 1,000,000 to 1,500,000 South Vietnameze citizens sympathetic to the US cause to be tortured and slaughtered"

You have a credible link for that statement?

McCain said it would be a short war, easy, we'd be out in a short time, and it wouldn't cost much. He didn't question the level of troops going in.

Therefore it's very disingenuous of him to take any credit for an after the fact 'surge' to quell what was at that time a 4 year old chaotic mess. Why? Because of the lack of listening to commanders in the first place. Where was his voice then?

This is like trying to take credit for calling the EMS truck after a car wreck that could have been avoided had he never let the drunk get behind the wheel in the first place.

Where was McCain's loud voice as a 'military expert' after Zinni and Shinseki testified before the Senate about the need for a minimum force of 500,000 troops to avoid what eventually happened? Where was his voice when Gen. Jay Garner was fired for adamantly calling on Washington NOT to disband the Iraqi Army - which STILL is not up to the readiness level it was in 2003? When all of Garner's other suggestions were promptly disregarded - much to the detriment of the U.S. and the Iraqis - and he was fired and replaced by Bremmer?

Where was McCain's voice calling for Bremmer and Rumsfeld's heads?

McCain is a Johnny Come Lately. He should have been the loudest voice in Congress questioning every aspect from Rumsfeld's judgment through the years Iraq descended into chaos?

"You're simply unable and incapable of explaining how that percentage of the voters you cited have access to the information required to make an intelligent judgment about the success of "the war on terror."

Easy, DOC...the same way you have access to the information that has caused YOU to judge that they're all wrong.

"I extend my sympathies to you for laboring under the double disability of neither being able to comprehend what you read nor engage in critical thought associated with the information before you."

I realize you think you're probably the smartest fellow to ever shit between a pair of run-down heels, but you AIN'T. DeadPud is! Fact is, you're just full of shit...a turd in every pocket!

I realize you think you're probably the smartest fellow to ever shit between a pair of run-down heels, but you AIN'T. DeadPud is!

FF

Here... Is this good enough for you....Or do you want an actual body count of the number of deaths to caused by the US pullout from Vietnam ? This article refers to millions but its probably a left wing piece of crap.


www.latimes.com

"You Mean like our moral obligation to South Vietnam when we picked up and left and allowed a reported 1,000,000 to 1,500,000 South Vietnameze citizens sympathetic to the US cause to be tortured and slaughtered ? A fact little reported and swept under the rug by our government and news agencies."

Yeah...like that one.

"So go run your little moral obligation argument that we have an obligation to the Iraqis on some other person with a limited thinking process."

That was a quote from Lanny Davis, not me. You know Lanny Davis...right?


Who gives a shit? I check the box scores for who won the game, not who's winning in the second quarter. Tell me if they are coming home. Then I'll know we've "won". You can tell me how great things are, but we are still there and haven't left yet. So let me know when that happens and we can talk about who won.

"the same way you have access to the information that has caused YOU to judge that they're all wrong."

You poor guy, you really don't realize that the absence of proof is not proof of anything other than an absence of proof, do you?

"Fact is, you're just full of shit"

For questioning you? Sure, that's the gold standard for determining who is and who is not full of shit.

Here's the platter. Yes, that's your ass, smack in the middle of it. Now, pick it up, screw it back on, waddle off, and don't bother trying to play with the adults until you are one.

"Here... Is this good enough for you...."

A quote from George Bush, the guy who thinks Nelson Mandela's dead?

ROTLMAO

Make that ROTFLMAO

I met with one of our clients recently who's brother is a 3-Star General that reports directly to Petraeus. He had some very interesting things to say about how Iraq has gone. Mostly he didn't think we have failed militarily there other than where we have asked our soldiers to do things like fix up a power plant or a school or a road. That part of it has been a huge cluster according to him.

"Here... Is this good enough for you....Or do you want an actual body count of the number of deaths to caused by the US pullout from Vietnam ? This article refers to millions but its probably a left wing piece of crap."

I think you have me confused with someone else. I made my first landing in Vietnam in 1958. I was back multiple times and flew from the carriers, Bon Homme Richard, Lexington and lastly from the Kearsarge. I landed at Cam Rahn after my last mission there in Oct. 1971. I retired in 1975. I have always felt ashamed of our abandonment of those people. Here's just another example of what it did to our image:

www.iran-press-service.com



"and allowed a reported 1,000,000 to 1,500,000 South Vietnameze citizens sympathetic to the US cause to be tortured and slaughtered"

That's not what your link says. Perhaps you don't know geography and that conflict all that well.

"Here's the platter. Yes, that's your ass, smack in the middle of it. Now, pick it up, screw it back on, waddle off, and don't bother trying to play with the adults until you are one."

LOL...I guess Goatman, or Rob,....or whoever it was...was correct when he said you are the way you are because you have a little weenie. I bet you have to take Viagra to keep from peeing on your shoes...don't you?

"Here... Is this good enough for you...."

A quote from George Bush, the guy who thinks Nelson Mandela's dead?

ROTLMAO

What George W. Bush thinks or says about Fucking anything is irrelevent to this discussion because he is a proven ignorant asshole.


The topic and debate is :

Why do we have a moral obligation to Iraq to protect them against genocide when we had none to Vietnam when millions were slaughtered by the likes of Paul Pot and the NVA Communists when we the US picked up from Vietnam and ran like coward dogs with our tails between our legs?


Get with the discussion man !!

"Get with the discussion man !!"

My question to you dealt with you providing a credible link for a statement you made.
You were not able to do so.
Get with the discussion, man!

"because you have a little weenie. I bet you have to take Viagra to keep from peeing on your shoes...don't you?"

No.
Why, do you?
Can't comprehend what you read (a processing disability).
Lack the ability to reach logical conclusions based upon the information at hand (yet another processing disability).
And now you're focusing on the size of poster's penises.
Proof that it's not safe to make 'shine out of kudzu.

"US Winning Iraq War"

In 279 B.C., after the Battle of Asculum, Plutarch tells us, "The armies separated; and, it is said, [King]Pyrrhus [of Eprius] replied to one that gave him joy of his victory that one more such victory would utterly undo him."

"Can't comprehend what you read (a processing disability)."

Actually, Doc, I comprehend it well enough. YOUR problem is that you won't accept ANYTHING unless it's peer-reviewed by Zatoitchy, analyzed in a video by Beefalo_Boob, or corroborated by DailyKos. Sometimes, Doc, just sometimes, the 51% are correct and YOU are wrong. Difficult to accept, I know, but true nonetheless.

Posted by jestgettinalong at 2008-07-27 11:01 AM

Ho boy, moving into CAPITALIZATION TERRITORY, egads, zounds, and forsooth! Serious stuff, that.

LOL

Sorry, but all you've done here today is demonstrate a truly pathetic inability to deal with the point I raised about your poll dancing, opting instead to go trolling.

Trying to get you to get your cognitive abilities up to speed is as boring and fundamentally pointless as playing tiddlywinks with kidiwinks.

Face it, you're obviously about two ticks above being a moron.

"Face it, you're obviously about two ticks above being a moron."

Oh...I thought I was only ONE tick above you.

Posted by jestgettinalong at 2008-07-27 11:17 AM

Well, see, that's where your wrong . . . again.

Like I said, playing tiddlywinks with kidiwinks.

Enjoy your $10 billion a month, blood, gore, and down the rabbit hole war.

I guess since the Left Wingers of the AP have finally decided we're "winning in Iraq" (I guess something positive actually DID come out of Obama's trip), there'll no longer be the whiny screechings of diaper pissing Leftists calling for the right to define the term.

Winning. We stay... THEY go home. It really is as simple as that.

Now what is Obama's strategy for Iraq? Withdrawl. Ooops. So much for "winning". I guess McCain was right. Obama STILL wants to surrender...

All this over polls? Know what I think, Doc? I think you have this need to pooh-pooh any poll you deem "bad news." I don't put tons of stock in polls, but I thought it pretty remarkable that Lanny Davis and others are singing a different tune now. Observe:

"These are facts, not arguments."

"FACTS"..so says Lanny Davis. And more...

"I think there are a lot of anti-war Democrats who, like me, are impressed by these facts and who now see a moral obligation, after all the carnage and destruction wrought by our military intervention, not just to pick up and leave without looking over our shoulders."

I was more impressed with this and other sources than with the polls suggesting most believe the surge is working. Consequently, I'm one who believes the surge is working. You may disagree, but the info upon which you base your disagreement is no more valid than the info others have.

Now what is Obama's strategy for Iraq? Withdrawl. Ooops. So much for "winning". I guess McCain was right. Obama STILL wants to surrender...

Posted by Farmer_John

Others who called for us to withdraw our forces:

-George Bush
-John McCain
-Maliki
-Allawi
-The Iraq Study Group (who said we should have our combat forces out by 2008)

Better they catch up later than never

You DID hear Bush sent an envoy to Iran too, didn't ya?

Of course, we would achieve a GREAT VICTORY if we simply followed the terrorists to whatever sanctuary they retreated into and killed them all, but the Leftists demand that America only achieve pyrrhic victories... cuz wars aren't perfect and nice and therefore Americans don't "deserve" real victories.

After all, we're just a bunch of "imperialists" no matter how many Saddamesque dictators we depose in making the world safe for democracy.

"You DID hear Bush sent an envoy to Iran too, didn't ya?"

Just so ya' know, AU, not liking Obama doesn't mean we like Bush or McCain.

Others who called for us to withdraw our forces

LOL! There's a difference between withdrawing a couple of combat brigades after victory has been achieved and putting our tails between our legs and getting out entirely in the face of a strong enemy (which is Obama proposed).

AU,

Your behind...

"Obama says conditions to dictate final Iraq force"
news.yahoo.com

There will be no total withdrawal from Iraq.

The policy from each candidate is the same, as Bush.

Any distinctions you make are of no difference.....

Unless Obama would like to clarify yesterday's comments.

and putting our tails between our legs and getting out entirely in the face of a strong enemy (which is Obama proposed).

Posted by Farmer_John

Farmer John. Wow. You are so ill informed I'm sorry to tell you.

Obama wants to pull our combat forces out of Iraq. Training and support with an expeditionary and strike force (in case there's trouble) is his plan once the combat forces are out. We would keep a large contingent nearby in Kuwait and the UAE to back them up if needed.

I know my details. Man, they're so easy to find if you want to.

You DID hear Bush sent an envoy to Iran too, didn't ya?

Imagine the conversation.

Envoy: "If you continue to develop Nukes, we will obliterate you."

Ahmadinejad: "We are in compliance with international agreements and inspections to develop nuclear energy. We have no plans to develop nuclear weapons."

Since Iran can't prove a negative, they will be obliterated.

Obama on the surge.

The idiot would surrender because he thought the "political debate at home" required the president to surrender... ???

Obama wants to pull our combat forces out of Iraq. Obama wants to pull our combat forces out of Iraq.

Oh for Chris sakes; how gullible and naive. This is election season. I haven't seen a candidate yet who followed through on a promise.

The idiot would surrender because he thought the "political debate at home" required the president to surrender... ???

Posted by Farmer_John at 2008-07-27 11:54 AM |

How do you surrender an occupation?

LMFAO

Obama wants to pull our combat forces out of Iraq. Training and support with an expeditionary and strike force (in case there's trouble) is his plan once the combat forces are out. We would keep a large contingent nearby in Kuwait and the UAE to back them up if needed.

LOL! You forget that he recommended we begin THAT process in 2007 pre-surge. Had we done so, Osama bin Laden would have been calling in the Mayflower Movers by now to shift his Operational HQ from Pakistan to Bagdad and forcing EVEN the non-combattant American forces to "re-deploy" out of Iraq.

Obama's like a broken clock. Right now, but wrong when he originally called for withdrawl.

How do you surrender an occupation?

I thought there was no al Qaeda forces or terrorists in Iraq till we got there...

So which is it? You can't have it BOTH ways. LOL!

You forget that he recommended we begin THAT process in 2007 pre-surge

That was also the recommendation of the Iraq Study Group. At that time Iraq was getting into a civil war. Our combat forces did not need to be in the middle of that.

Hey, I know you're an ultra partisan, but at that time 'stay the course' was the word of the day from the WH - and things were just getting worse every day. It was ONLY when the Dems took Congress in 2006 that Bush became willing to try something different - starting with a new Secretary of Defense. He'd held onto Rumsfeld, who's policies were disasterous, like all get out. The 2006 Election was the ONLY thing that made George try something new.

You know all of that but you won't admit it.

My point was McCain should have been asking all kinds of uncomfortable questions before we went and all during the years and years of death and destruction with a failed plan.

One Trillion Fucking Dollars and 5000 US Soldiers lives pissed away by a fucking idiot President who still can't get it thru his fucking peanut sized brain that the real enemy is in Pakistan and Afganistan and always has been but because Iraq has so much Oil we put 170,000 Troops there supporting something called a surge and bullshitting the American People were there protecting a bunch of Fanatical Religious Morons who couldn't give a flying fuck less whether all of us here in America were dead.

And thru it all...you have people who would still suck the shit out of Bushes ass they love the cocksucker so much !!!

Farmer John

You're a broken record.

Bad thing for you is the rest of us remember how that song went

You do? You sure don't sound like you understand what happened.

That was also the recommendation of the Iraq Study Group.

LOL! The ISG? Since when did a single Democrat stand by THAT deal? You won Congress in 2006 by renegging on ISG bi-partisanship and calling for complete surrender.

Yellow dogs. You're not called 'YELLOW' for nothing.

What an ego.You should try some humility.
A hypocrite you are.

You realize this is a entertainment website? Where sarcasm and jokes and fighting are common?

Thats what happens when people try to force thier views down othere throats.

Posted by controlledpairs at 2008-07-26 10:30 PM | Reply |

Translation: i have nothing to counter your point with please stop making me look like the complete ass that i am. fucking buffoon.

the real enemy is in Pakistan and Afganistan and always has been...

That may be partially true, but the real path to VICTORY has always been by making ALLIES and establishing BASES in the REGION from which support for American goals can be achieved.

The USSR tried to fight a war in Afghanistan in 1980 and LOST it. Why did they lose it? They had no SUPPORT for their efforts in the region.

Fortunally for us, there are TWO COMPETING BRANDS of terrorism in the Middle East, one Sunni and one Shi'a. And we would NEVER be able to convince the Sunni brand to support us UNLESS something was done to take on the Shi'a form.

Albert

Posted by controlledpairs at 2008-07-26 10:31 PM | Reply |

FF. I'll give you that one.

That "civil war" in Iraq didn't break out by accident. The Sunni-Shi'a split lies at the root Middle Eastern politics. And right now, they're in an "arms race" for control of the Islamic world. And America needs to be in a position to keep the counter-balances in place that will prevent a how war for domination from breaking out.

Welcome to the post-Cold War world.

erratum - "hot" for "how" above.

And America needs to be in a position to keep the counter-balances in place that will prevent a how war for domination from breaking out.

Oh sure, an attack on Iran will prevent a war from breaking out. Here's the lineup: Israel and the US against Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Russia and China. Farmer John is nuts.

"All this over polls? Know what I think, Doc?"

No. Actually, here's some bad news for you: Given your track record here, I don't really much care, either.

"I think you have this need to pooh-pooh any poll you deem "bad news.""

No, but I question polls that question people who can't possibly have any idea about the universe of facts that pertain to a subject -- other than impressions they've gleaned from MSM and military-political spinmeisters.

"I don't put tons of stock in polls, but I thought it pretty remarkable that Lanny Davis and others are singing a different tune now. Observe: "These are facts, not arguments." "FACTS"..so says Lanny Davis."

Lanny Davis. He knows no more about any of this than the rest of us.

"I'm one who believes the surge is working. You may disagree, but the info upon which you base your disagreement is no more valid than the info others have."

So, essentially, a matter of faith.

Thanks for clearing that up.

An attack on Iran? We no longer need to attack Iran. Why? Because IRAQ, not IRAN, lies at the center of the Shi'a religion, and the American supporting clerics like al-Sistani in Najaf have more prestige and authority than the "heretics" in Qom.

Invading Iraq served a dual purpose. Like when you capture Rome, you also capture Vatican City and the Pope.

And religion IS the way of getting rid of the radical Khomeini inspired heretics controlling the Iranian government, not arms. Veleyat e-fiqh is a Shi'a heresy. Remove the authority of its' proponents, and you get rid of theocracy in Iran.

Farmer
The only purpose the attack on Iraq served was to further Israel's interests to weed out a competing nation. That's why an attack on Iran is very likely.

Since you claim to have read "The Creature From Jekyll Island" you should know that the purpose of the Federal Reserve is to finance wars without directly taxing the populace. The federal government is broke. One more wall will take us over the edge.

Get off this ego trip about trying to dominate the ME. Military occupation and support of Israel has accomplished nothing but make enemies at great cost to this country. The US does not have the resources to further the ambitions of ruthless evil people without destroying what is left of the American economy.

I never claimed to have read "The Creature from Jekyll Island"... that's YOUR strawman, not mine. Bush's "stratergury" serve's American and humanities interests, not that of "Zionists"

And please, your paranoid conspiracy theories demonstrate just how "deep" your thinking about the WoT is. You really think it's an "American/Zionist Plot"???

If so, what a maroon!

You said: Posted by farmerjohn at 2008-07-26 08:46 PM |: "An interesting read is "The Creature From Jekyll Island" written by G. Edward Griffin. Anybody interested in the REAL TRUTH about this stuff and how the FED as well as FDIC work hand in hand to ensure people remain in debt should read this book."

www.drudge.com

Bush's "stratergury" serve's American and humanities interests, not that of "Zionists"

What Lala land do you live in? They are all third world countries with no military.

Get an education. Here's a good read from Paul Craig Roberts. rense.com

That "Farmer John" is a different guy. I'm "Farmer_John".

They are all third world countries with no military.

In case you hadn't noticed, Osama bin Laden is in the process of conquering PAKISTAN. He's married off many of his family members into the Taliban tribes in ther Frontier Provinces and will soon, without promp western intervention, control the nuclear weapons and forces there.

Now who's the one living in la-la land, again?